DUST Search - HMG Balance Proposal

DRT 99 wrote:

GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote:

ASYMETRY is what makes DUST fun, intellect with experience beats asymetry.

location dictates tactics, and direct counters along with indirect counters should be increased with additional content.

balance is ephemeral given a change in map location.

OMNI to advanced gear to counter, should be the community mantra.

A heavy in the open is already easy prey, slowing them down will cause them to lurk in CQB even more.

PS:it was nice to squad with you last night, welcome back, and good hunting wishes in the future.

Asymetry is only fun when youre on the winning side.
That being said, asymetry granted through POSITIONING is great - if you die to someone of equal skill and suit cost behind cover while youre in the open, you could have prevented that. you could have been in cover or stayed out of the open. Asymetry because someone in a suit equally / less expensive than yours with equal / lower skill than you has more HP and DPS and killed you because you didnt fit REs is not.

Heavies in the open are already easy targets, the point isnt making them easier to kill in the open, its making them easier to avoid close up. Yes, i admit that this will lock heavies to CQC more than they are now - but is that a bad thing? More area denial, less mass murder.

Likewise nice squadding with you, hope to see you around.

Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.


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Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5876	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:04:00 - [1] - Quote My only serious concern with this proposal is the 0.5 second of slow speed after you stop firing. In those "OH **!" moments being slowed down while you are trying to dive for cover would be incredibly frustrating. It would be the Sprint Glitch all over again. Fight or Flight!** If I am not firing, I want to be able to run. It is just basic human instinct. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5876	Posted - 2015.01.16 18:30:00 - [2] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: There is just no way that a dedicated heavy can look at this post and not think " nerf " . I hate to break it to you, but a nerf is coming. It is up to the dedicated Sentinel community to determine what that nerf will be, because if we don't come up with a viable proposal, then Rettati will have to come up with something on his own. Just go ask the ADS pilots what happen if you stick your head in the sand and pretend that there is nothing wrong. And for the Record, I play 1 hour solo every weekday morning before down time, while playing in squads whenever I can get on in the evening. I look at this from both a solo and squad perspective. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 16:55:00 - [3] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: Imp Smash wrote: I also want to ask -- how do you imagine these changes affecting Assault HMG and Burst HMG? Assault HMG is already in need of alittle love - id say buff its damage a tiny bit and either a: keep the increased range and the slowdown b: same range as regular HMG but no / reduced slowdown As far as the burst HMG.... i suppose the heavy would be slowed down during the half second burst, which i suppose would lead to some awkward start/stop movement. From my experiences using the burst HMG so far, it honestly feels broken OP. I hate to say it, but perhaps the slowdown-after-shooting could apply exclusively to the burst HMG? This would lead to steady movement even between bursts. Again, the 0.5s i originally stated was just a ballpark figure to get things rolling, could just as easily be 0.2 or 0.3. Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Op please read what I said before you use my words to misquote me I did read what you said - however, having heavies more easily countered by shotguns and grenades was part of the solution The only think wrong with the Assault HMG is that it needs a dispersion reduction to allow it to be effective about 10m farther out. If you judge the Assault HMG based on how it performs in CQC, then you are doing it wrong. It is a mid range weapon. I would rather have the recent heat buff on the Burst HMG reversed than have even a 0.3 second slowdown after I stop firing. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 16:59:00 - [4] - Quote Lady MDK wrote: The issue as i see is the weapon not the suit. Sentinals were billed as anti vehicle platforms which is fine the forge gun does this job well. The commando is a heavy class that can field multiple light weapons and does its job well. The issue is that the game then has allows an anti vehicle platform to field an anti infantry weapon like the hmg. Of course a heavy should take out a medium suit, but from my angle all i often see are groups of sentinals with hmg's. The rep is sometimes an issue but only because the combo used can normally mow down any opposition with little danger. IMO make sent weaponry more AV especially if you are thinking of bringing back other HAV's and let commandos be the heavy anti infantry that they are. Flame on.... Never heard of the Sentinel Suit referred to as an AV platform before, and I have been playing DUST for 2 years. I mean, yes there has always been the Forge Gun, but that is just one of many AV weapons. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 18:04:00 - [5] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Lady MDK wrote: The issue as i see is the weapon not the suit. Sentinals were billed as anti vehicle platforms which is fine the forge gun does this job well. The commando is a heavy class that can field multiple light weapons and does its job well. The issue is that the game then has allows an anti vehicle platform to field an anti infantry weapon like the hmg. Of course a heavy should take out a medium suit, but from my angle all i often see are groups of sentinals with hmg's. The rep is sometimes an issue but only because the combo used can normally mow down any opposition with little danger. IMO make sent weaponry more AV especially if you are thinking of bringing back other HAV's and let commandos be the heavy anti infantry that they are. Flame on.... Never heard of the Sentinel Suit referred to as an AV platform before, and I have been playing DUST for 2 years. I mean, yes there has always been the Forge Gun, but that is just one of many AV weapons. You've head me call it the ideal Av weapons platform more than once. And I have called the Scout an ideal AV platform more than once. He was giving the impression that the Sentinel was designed only for AV, and I had never heard that before. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 18:10:00 - [6] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: Im not sure increasing burst HMG heat generation would do very much. It really doesnt matter how often you overheat if your target is dead before that. Well, it seemed like there was only a handful of us still using it after the Delta Heat nerf. So the heat nerf must have done something, as it was a very popular weapon before Delta. I am simply saying that I will not use a weapon that prevents me from switching from fight to flight. I am fine with a slowing effect when you are shooting, but I want to be able to drops my weapon and dash for cover when the **** hits the fan. Adding a slowdown effect that lingers after I stop firing would ruin the weapon for me. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:45:00 - [7] - Quote I was thinking about the Burst HMG mechanics while walking the dog, and I realized that it can be handled the same as the regular HMG. The key is to consider the pause between burst as part of the firing cycle. So the slowing effect would be in effect from the time you pull the trigger to the time the last round fires, including the pauses in between. The important thing though is that once that last round fires the slowing effect stops. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 21:04:00 - [8] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: ASYMETRY is what makes DUST fun, intellect with experience beats asymetry. location dictates tactics, and direct counters along with indirect counters should be increased with additional content. balance is ephemeral given a change in map location. OMNI to advanced gear to counter, should be the community mantra. A heavy in the open is already easy prey, slowing them down will cause them to lurk in CQB even more. PS:it was nice to squad with you last night, welcome back, and good hunting wishes in the future. Asymetry is only fun when youre on the winning side. That being said, asymetry granted through POSITIONING is great - if you die to someone of equal skill and suit cost behind cover while youre in the open, you could have prevented that. you could have been in cover or stayed out of the open. Asymetry because someone in a suit equally / less expensive than yours with equal / lower skill than you has more HP and DPS and killed you because you didnt fit REs is not. Heavies in the open are already easy targets, the point isnt making them easier to kill in the open, its making them easier to avoid close up. Yes, i admit that this will lock heavies to CQC more than they are now - but is that a bad thing? More area denial, less mass murder. Likewise nice squadding with you, hope to see you around. I agree with his Asymmetry premise, but the advantages should not be too great. What I like about this slowing while firing proposal is that it would reduce the gap between Medium Frames and Sentinels, but is not severe enough to eliminate that gap. Sentinels would still have the HP and DPS advantage, while Medium Frames will be able to strafe more effectively. The way it is supposed to work is: Scout beats Sentinel. Sentinel beats Medium Frame. Assault beats Scout. There is still some work to be done on that last part. But the other point is that system is a generalization. It reflects where the advantage should lay in a non tactical encounter. What makes it fun is that you can use tactics to overcome the advantage of other suits. The issue you are addressing in this thread is that the advantages the HMG Sentinel has seems to be slightly greater than they should be. The slowing effect would give the strafing advantage to the medium and small frame suits, without impacting the SentinelGÇÖs main strengths. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 21:12:00 - [9] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: Edit: I noticed you were moving fast, also noticed that assault HMG. Respect the fact that you actually got it to work, never seems to do anything other than make loud noises when i use it. On Line Harvest I can do as well with an Assault HMG as any other HMG. I can do well with it on Ashland as well. You need open spaces with sufficient cover scattered about so you can control range. If it had a bit more range it would be useful in a lot more circumstances. Your target needs to be ideally between 20m and 35m away. It sort of sucks in CQC, but since it is meant to be a medium range weapon I don't see a problem with that. You can still kill stuff close up, it just takes longer. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5964	Posted - 2015.02.06 18:40:00 - [10] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: Personally I am for range changes. The really rage inducing thing, for me, is getting melted by an HMG -- or on the other end, how much of a **** I feel like when I melt someone -- at 30 meters almost as fast as at 10. Falls off very quickly after that. How many HMG kills have you gotten at 40m, and were any of those solo or were you just finishing people who were already on death's door? Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.