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HMG Balance Proposal - No Direct nerfs.

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killertojo42 KnightKiller's inc. 120	Posted - 2015.01.17 01:53:00 - [31] - Quote Decreased moving while shooting but decent increase to HP, less mobility but terrifying as point defense is the objective, also I own two republic BPOs with REs so I see a heavy spam and I spam Because both of us dying as I'm in my nomad BPO is to my benefit
DRT 99 Intara Direct Action Caldari State 9	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:21:00 - [32] - Quote Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: open to be strafed and SG , NK and RE'd by scouts or any suit with speed like a logi Because heavies shouldnt have counters? Also when did logis become fast? someone please explain this to me. Fox Gaden wrote: My only serious concern with this proposal is the "potential" 0.5 second of slow speed after you stop firing (Snip) It would be the Sprint Glitch all over again. In hindsight, that 0.5s was probably unecessary - and when you bring up the sprint glitch... shudders Fox Gaden wrote: It also makes sense that the Sentinel would be slowed while firing as they have to brace themselves against the kick of the HMG to keep it steady. This was actually my inspiration - and its already present on the FG so it should be easy to implement Imp Smash wrote: Movement speed reduction to ADS level when hip firing is totally acceptable Was in a rush and forgot to mention in the OP - ADS speed reduction and firing speed reduction wouldnt stack so theres no penalty to ADSing and Firing. Ill update the OP. Imp Smash wrote: Turn speed reduction is unreasonable though. 100% agreed
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1773	Posted - 2015.01.17 02:30:00 - [33] - Quote In response to OP: I like the idea. My only concern is that a "while-firing" movement restriction might cause issues with target tracking. We'd have to be careful not to affect rotation speed.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 525	Posted - 2015.01.17 03:11:00 - [34] - Quote I also want to ask -- how do you imagine these changes affecting Assault HMG and Burst HMG?
Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui Onikanabo Brigade Caldari State 1719	Posted - 2015.01.17 04:38:00 - [35] - Quote Op please read what I said before you use my words to misquote me . I actually used some of what you already stated as examples . If you would read what was written before you come to your conclusion and try to use my own words against me you would understand that your misquoting me and if you have a feasible point then you wouldn't need to do that . Please don't follow fools , you were doing so good and you said that you wanted to have a discussion . Doubts are like flies and should be treated as such and crushed .
DRT 99 Unleashed Hybrid's 11	Posted - 2015.01.17 07:42:00 - [36] - Quote Imp Smash wrote: I also want to ask -- how do you imagine these changes affecting Assault HMG and Burst HMG? Assault HMG is already in need of alittle love - id say buff its damage a tiny bit and either a: keep the increased range and the slowdown b: same range as regular HMG but no / reduced slowdown As far as the burst HMG.... i suppose the heavy would be slowed down during the half second burst, which i suppose would lead to some awkward start/stop movement. From my experiences using the burst HMG so far, it honestly feels broken OP. I hate to say it, but perhaps the slowdown-after-shooting could apply exclusively to the burst HMG? This would lead to steady movement even between bursts. Again, the 0.5s i originally stated was just a ballpark figure to get things rolling, could just as easily be 0.2 or 0.3. Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Op please read what I said before you use my words to misquote me I did read what you said - however, having heavies more easily countered by shotguns and grenades was part of the solution
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6535	Posted - 2015.01.17 08:29:00 - [37] - Quote Just drop heavy machinegun base damage by 10% and turn off aim assist. I'm not joking. AA has an inordinately large effect on the performance of the HMG. You could literally dump AA, do the 10% base nerf and rebuff the Heavy Damage Mods to 10% and still have killable sentinels that cannot simply own cqc rather than being powerful in CQC. You could even revert the heat changes. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 258	Posted - 2015.01.17 10:27:00 - [38] - Quote The issue as i see is the weapon not the suit. Sentinals were billed as anti vehicle platforms which is fine the forge gun does this job well. The commando is a heavy class that can field multiple light weapons and does its job well. The issue is that the game then has allows an anti vehicle platform to field an anti infantry weapon like the hmg. Of course a heavy should take out a medium suit, but from my angle all i often see are groups of sentinals with hmg's. The rep is sometimes an issue but only because the combo used can normally mow down any opposition with little danger. IMO make sent weaponry more AV especially if you are thinking of bringing back other HAV's and let commandos be the heavy anti infantry that they are. Flame on.... Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6539	Posted - 2015.01.17 10:47:00 - [39] - Quote I'd flame but I'm actually brainstorming sentinel AV weapons. They are intended to be able to be used on infantry with two caveats: 1: they are a minimum of 200 DPS behind the HMG 2: they do not benefit from aim assist. Rather like the forge gun if you want to kill foot nerds, you need to be a relatively good shot. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Megaman Trigger OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 190	Posted - 2015.01.17 11:03:00 - [40] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I'd flame but I'm actually brainstorming sentinel AV weapons. They are intended to be able to be used on infantry with two caveats: 1: they are a minimum of 200 DPS behind the HMG 2: they do not benefit from aim assist. Rather like the forge gun if you want to kill foot nerds, you need to be a relatively good shot. Nothing quite like smacking a sniper in the face with a ~~Mega Buster~~ Forge Gun charge shot Purifier. First Class.

Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6555	Posted - 2015.01.17 12:45:00 - [41] - Quote Exactly Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 16:55:00 - [42] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: Imp Smash wrote: I also want to ask -- how do you imagine these changes affecting Assault HMG and Burst HMG? Assault HMG is already in need of alittle love - id say buff its damage a tiny bit and either a: keep the increased range and the slowdown b: same range as regular HMG but no / reduced slowdown As far as the burst HMG.... i suppose the heavy would be slowed down during the half second burst, which i suppose would lead to some awkward start/stop movement. From my experiences using the burst HMG so far, it honestly feels broken OP. I hate to say it, but perhaps the slowdown-after-shooting could apply exclusively to the burst HMG? This would lead to steady movement even between bursts. Again, the 0.5s i originally stated was just a ballpark figure to get things rolling, could just as easily be 0.2 or 0.3. Shinobi MumyoSakanagare ZaShigurui wrote: Op please read what I said before you use my words to misquote me I did read what you said - however, having heavies more easily countered by shotguns and grenades was part of the solution The only think wrong with the Assault HMG is that it needs a dispersion reduction to allow it to be effective about 10m farther out. If you judge the Assault HMG based on how it performs in CQC, then you are doing it wrong. It is a mid range weapon. I would rather have the recent heat buff on the Burst HMG reversed than have even a 0.3 second slowdown after I stop firing. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 16:59:00 - [43] - Quote Lady MDK wrote: The issue as i see is the weapon not the suit. Sentinals were billed as anti vehicle platforms which is fine the forge gun does this job well. The commando is a heavy class that can field multiple light weapons and does its job well. The issue is that the game then has allows an anti vehicle platform to field an anti infantry weapon like the hmg. Of course a heavy should take out a medium suit, but from my angle all i often see are groups of sentinals with hmg's. The rep is sometimes an issue but only because the combo used can normally mow down any opposition with little danger. IMO make sent weaponry more AV especially if you are thinking of bringing back other HAV's and let commandos be the heavy anti infantry that they are. Flame on.... Never heard of the Sentinel Suit referred to as an AV platform before, and I have been playing DUST for 2 years. I mean, yes there has always been the Forge Gun, but that is just one of many AV weapons. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 143	Posted - 2015.01.17 17:18:00 - [44] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: So i recently returned to the game and i have noticed that heavies are monsters - now dont get me wrong i completely agree going 1 vs 1 with an HMG heavy at close range should be suicide but this is alittle over the top. Its getting to the point where the only way to play when heavies are around is to be behind them (with either rep tool or shotgun),become one of the RE frizbee scrubs, or get a heavy yourself. So i thought up (what i feel is) a decent way to nerf heavies while retaining that 'OH SH!T A HEAVY!' feeling. With that in mind: What this ISNT: -Nerf Heavies QQ -Nerf HMG DPS -Nerf Heavy HP What im proposing is a reduction to speed while firing an HMG - similar to charging up a forge gun (~~as well as potentially for a short while after firing - like 0.5s~~) They can still sprint and move normally while not firing. Additionally, penalties for shooting and ADSing wouldnt stack, meaning that shooting, ADSing and Shooting while ADS all allow the same amount of movement. What this does is make heavies more area denial and less murder-machines, through a reduction in their ability to chase opponents down. This also makes them more vulnerable to certain weapons (MDs, REs, FGs, Snipers, etc) which i believe is a positive thing. Thoughts? You said it-" get a heavy yourself " EDIT: Generic Racism Argument: Why does FG make heavies slower but HMG doesnt? Stop being racist CCP! you said it-" get a heavy yourself "
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6557	Posted - 2015.01.17 17:33:00 - [45] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Lady MDK wrote: The issue as i see is the weapon not the suit. Sentinals were billed as anti vehicle platforms which is fine the forge gun does this job well. The commando is a heavy class that can field multiple light weapons and does its job well. The issue is that the game then has allows an anti vehicle platform to field an anti infantry weapon like the hmg. Of course a heavy should take out a medium suit, but from my angle all i often see are groups of sentinals with hmg's. The rep is sometimes an issue but only because the combo used can normally mow down any opposition with little danger. IMO make sent weaponry more AV especially if you are thinking of bringing back other HAV's and let commandos be the heavy anti infantry that they are. Flame on.... Never heard of the Sentinel Suit referred to as an AV platform before, and I have been playing DUST for 2 years. I mean, yes there has always been the Forge Gun, but that is just one of many AV weapons. You've head me call it the ideal Av weapons platform more than once. Also, found the logi tourist! Please cry directly into the bucket. -Ripley Riley
DRT 99 Unleashed Hybrid's 11	Posted - 2015.01.17 17:57:00 - [46] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: The only think wrong with the Assault HMG is that it needs a dispersion reduction to allow it to be effective about 10m farther out. If you judge the Assault HMG based on how it performs in CQC, then you are doing it wrong. It is a mid range weapon. I would rather have the recent heat buff on the Burst HMG reversed than have even a 0.3 second slowdown after I stop firing. Ive been using the assault HMG at medium range, and thats what im talking about - even in its intended range its ability to be outgunned by other weapons is matched only by the laser rifle at close range. It needs something OTHER than range, else why not just use a Rifle? Im not sure increasing burst HMG heat generation would do very much. It really doesnt matter how often you overheat if your target is dead before that. GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: you said it-" get a heavy yourself " This isnt a solution, weve been through this before and it didnt work: The only counter to tanks is tanks The only counter to Scouts is Scouts
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 18:04:00 - [47] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: Lady MDK wrote: The issue as i see is the weapon not the suit. Sentinals were billed as anti vehicle platforms which is fine the forge gun does this job well. The commando is a heavy class that can field multiple light weapons and does its job well. The issue is that the game then has allows an anti vehicle platform to field an anti infantry weapon like the hmg. Of course a heavy should take out a medium suit, but from my angle all i often see are groups of sentinals with hmg's. The rep is sometimes an issue but only because the combo used can normally mow down any opposition with little danger. IMO make sent weaponry more AV especially if you are thinking of bringing back other HAV's and let commandos be the heavy anti infantry that they are. Flame on.... Never heard of the Sentinel Suit referred to as an AV platform before, and I have been playing DUST for 2 years. I mean, yes there has always been the Forge Gun, but that is just one of many AV weapons. You've head me call it the ideal Av weapons platform more than once. And I have called the Scout an ideal AV platform more than once. He was giving the impression that the Sentinel was designed only for AV, and I had never heard that before. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 18:10:00 - [48] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: Im not sure increasing burst HMG heat generation would do very much. It really doesnt matter how often you overheat if your target is dead before that. Well, it seemed like there was only a handful of us still using it after the Delta Heat nerf. So the heat nerf must have done something, as it was a very popular weapon before Delta. I am simply saying that I will not use a weapon that prevents me from switching from fight to flight. I am fine with a slowing effect when you are shooting, but I want to be able to drops my weapon and dash for cover when the **** hits the fan. Adding a slowdown effect that lingers after I stop firing would ruin the weapon for me. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 143	Posted - 2015.01.17 18:46:00 - [49] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: The only think wrong with the Assault HMG is that it needs a dispersion reduction to allow it to be effective about 10m farther out. If you judge the Assault HMG based on how it performs in CQC, then you are doing it wrong. It is a mid range weapon. I would rather have the recent heat buff on the Burst HMG reversed than have even a 0.3 second slowdown after I stop firing. Ive been using the assault HMG at medium range, and thats what im talking about - even in its intended range its ability to be outgunned by other weapons is matched only by the laser rifle at close range. It needs something OTHER than range, else why not just use a Rifle? Im not sure increasing burst HMG heat generation would do very much. It really doesnt matter how often you overheat if your target is dead before that. GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: you said it-" get a heavy yourself " This isnt a solution, weve been through this before and it didnt work: The only counter to tanks is tanks The only counter to Scouts is Scouts ASYMETRY is what makes DUST fun, intellect with experience beats asymetry. location dictates tactics, and direct counters along with indirect counters should be increased with additional content. balance is ephemeral given a change in map location. OMNI to advanced gear to counter, should be the community mantra. A heavy in the open is already easy prey, slowing them down will cause them to lurk in CQB even more.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 143	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:16:00 - [50] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: The only think wrong with the Assault HMG is that it needs a dispersion reduction to allow it to be effective about 10m farther out. If you judge the Assault HMG based on how it performs in CQC, then you are doing it wrong. It is a mid range weapon. I would rather have the recent heat buff on the Burst HMG reversed than have even a 0.3 second slowdown after I stop firing. Ive been using the assault HMG at medium range, and thats what im talking about - even in its intended range its ability to be outgunned by other weapons is matched only by the laser rifle at close range. It needs something OTHER than range, else why not just use a Rifle? Im not sure increasing burst HMG heat generation would do very much. It really doesnt matter how often you overheat if your target is dead before that. GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: you said it-" get a heavy yourself " This isnt a solution, weve been through this before and it didnt work: The only counter to tanks is tanks The only counter to Scouts is Scouts Good games last night, and I look forward to seeing you back in game. I am an OMNI and I get frustrated with the typical resistant personalities that most QQ'ers express in the Nerf sub-culture. DUST is an asymetrical game, and I love it for that reason. Asymetry and balance aer unreconcilable, so we counter, but the counters are problematic in that location dictates application of the proper DPS profile. With that said, asymetry-can be trumped by intelligence paired with experience-thus the need to OMNI. A heavy in the open is my favorite prey, calling "heavy in the open" on comms is fun, chewing that heavy up is even better. Slowing them down will only lead to objective loading. Slowing everything down would help hit detection greatly, and I am a huge proponent. An across the board speed and a reflected damage reduction "balancing" cycle would be good. PS: I run a three KINCAT ammar-so in the open...lol

DRT 99 Unleashed Hybrid's 12	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:26:00 - [51] - Quote GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: ASYMETRY is what makes DUST fun, intellect with experience beats asymetry. location dictates tactics, and direct counters along with indirect counters should be increased with additional content. balance is ephemeral given a change in map location. OMNI to advanced gear to counter, should be the community mantra. A heavy in the open is already easy prey, slowing them down will cause them to lurk in CQB even more. PS:it was nice to squad with you last night, welcome back, and good hunting wishes in the future. Asymetry is only fun when youre on the winning side. That being said, asymetry granted through POSITIONING is great - if you die to someone of equal skill and suit cost behind cover while youre in the open, you could have prevented that. you could have been in cover or stayed out of the open. Asymetry because someone in a suit equally / less expensive than yours with equal / lower skill than you has more HP and DPS and killed you because you didnt fit REs is not. Heavies in the open are already easy targets, the point isnt making them easier to kill in the open, its making them easier to avoid close up. Yes, i admit that this will lock heavies to CQC more than they are now - but is that a bad thing? More area denial, less mass murder. Likewise nice squadding with you, hope to see you around.
DRT 99 Unleashed Hybrid's 12	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:34:00 - [52] - Quote GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: Good games last night, and I look forward to seeing you back in game. I am an OMNI and I get frustrated with the typical resistant personalities that most QQ'ers express in the Nerf sub-culture. DUST is an asymetrical game, and I love it for that reason. Asymetry and balance aer unreconcilable, so we counter, but the counters are problematic in that location dictates application of the proper DPS profile. With that said, asymetry-can be trumped by intelligence paired with experience-thus the need to OMNI. A heavy in the open is my favorite prey, calling "heavy in the open" on comms is fun, chewing that heavy up is even better. Slowing them down will only lead to objective loading. Slowing everything down would help hit detection greatly, and I am a huge proponent. An across the board speed and a reflected damage reduction "balancing" cycle would be good. PS: I run a three KINCAT ammar-so in the open...lol By OMNI you mean youre skilled into multiple roles? I agree that some level of asymetry is good - one thing having a counter is excellent. Unfortunately, the only counter to heavies right now is a shotgun or knife to the back of the head or an RE / FG to the face. This proposal wouldnt change that, just make them slightly more vulnerable to those counters, while making facing a heavy less anti-fun for those without the counters, as running away and surviving is now more of a possibility. Edit: I noticed you were moving fast, also noticed that assault HMG. Respect the fact that you actually got it to work, never seems to do anything other than make loud noises when i use it.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 20:45:00 - [53] - Quote I was thinking about the Burst HMG mechanics while walking the dog, and I realized that it can be handled the same as the regular HMG. The key is to consider the pause between burst as part of the firing cycle. So the slowing effect would be in effect from the time you pull the trigger to the time the last round fires, including the pauses in between. The important thing though is that once that last round fires the slowing effect stops. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE Consolidated Dust 143	Posted - 2015.01.17 21:01:00 - [54] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: Good games last night, and I look forward to seeing you back in game. I am an OMNI and I get frustrated with the typical resistant personalities that most QQ'ers express in the Nerf sub-culture. DUST is an asymetrical game, and I love it for that reason. Asymetry and balance aer unreconcilable, so we counter, but the counters are problematic in that location dictates application of the proper DPS profile. With that said, asymetry-can be trumped by intelligence paired with experience-thus the need to OMNI. A heavy in the open is my favorite prey, calling "heavy in the open" on comms is fun, chewing that heavy up is even better. Slowing them down will only lead to objective loading. Slowing everything down would help hit detection greatly, and I am a huge proponent. An across the board speed and a reflected damage reduction "balancing" cycle would be good. PS: I run a three KINCAT ammar-so in the open...lol By OMNI you mean youre skilled into multiple roles? I agree that some level of asymetry is good - one thing having a counter is excellent. Unfortunately, the only counter to heavies right now is a shotgun or knife to the back of the head or an RE / FG to the face. This proposal wouldnt change that, just make them slightly more vulnerable to those counters, while making facing a heavy less anti-fun for those without the counters, as running away and surviving is now more of a possibility. Edit: I noticed you were moving fast, also noticed that assault HMG. Respect the fact that you actually got it to work, never seems to do anything other than make loud noises when i use it. I do understand the hmg frustration, because I lived it. here is an example of indirect counter caused by location and map design. Harvest line Domination- a heavy is not a good choice a medium is better. CCP needs to rethink these really big sockets ( performance, expense, delay, inhibits map size, new map rollouts take to long) and use terrain with line of fire obstruction that could be used as concealment and not cover. Having new maps, and i don't care if some are throw away or beta work in progress designs-that would change or be pulled out of rotation before they are mastered by the player base-this would fix nerf-buff, because you can't dominate unknown ground, maybe an objective but not the battle space.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 21:04:00 - [55] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: GLOBAL fils'de RAGE wrote: ASYMETRY is what makes DUST fun, intellect with experience beats asymetry. location dictates tactics, and direct counters along with indirect counters should be increased with additional content. balance is ephemeral given a change in map location. OMNI to advanced gear to counter, should be the community mantra. A heavy in the open is already easy prey, slowing them down will cause them to lurk in CQB even more. PS:it was nice to squad with you last night, welcome back, and good hunting wishes in the future. Asymetry is only fun when youre on the winning side. That being said, asymetry granted through POSITIONING is great - if you die to someone of equal skill and suit cost behind cover while youre in the open, you could have prevented that. you could have been in cover or stayed out of the open. Asymetry because someone in a suit equally / less expensive than yours with equal / lower skill than you has more HP and DPS and killed you because you didnt fit REs is not. Heavies in the open are already easy targets, the point isnt making them easier to kill in the open, its making them easier to avoid close up. Yes, i admit that this will lock heavies to CQC more than they are now - but is that a bad thing? More area denial, less mass murder. Likewise nice squadding with you, hope to see you around. I agree with his Asymmetry premise, but the advantages should not be too great. What I like about this slowing while firing proposal is that it would reduce the gap between Medium Frames and Sentinels, but is not severe enough to eliminate that gap. Sentinels would still have the HP and DPS advantage, while Medium Frames will be able to strafe more effectively. The way it is supposed to work is: Scout beats Sentinel. Sentinel beats Medium Frame. Assault beats Scout. There is still some work to be done on that last part. But the other point is that system is a generalization. It reflects where the advantage should lay in a non tactical encounter. What makes it fun is that you can use tactics to overcome the advantage of other suits. The issue you are addressing in this thread is that the advantages the HMG Sentinel has seems to be slightly greater than they should be. The slowing effect would give the strafing advantage to the medium and small frame suits, without impacting the SentinelGÇÖs main strengths. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides Learning Alliance 5896	Posted - 2015.01.17 21:12:00 - [56] - Quote DRT 99 wrote: Edit: I noticed you were moving fast, also noticed that assault HMG. Respect the fact that you actually got it to work, never seems to do anything other than make loud noises when i use it. On Line Harvest I can do as well with an Assault HMG as any other HMG. I can do well with it on Ashland as well. You need open spaces with sufficient cover scattered about so you can control range. If it had a bit more range it would be useful in a lot more circumstances. Your target needs to be ideally between 20m and 35m away. It sort of sucks in CQC, but since it is meant to be a medium range weapon I don't see a problem with that. You can still kill stuff close up, it just takes longer. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 527	Posted - 2015.01.17 23:53:00 - [57] - Quote I don't think it can work like Paper Rock Sissors. Heavy>Ass>Sc>Hea It will always be a case of Paper Rock Shotgun. Hence our current nerf buff cycle. Dust IS designed to be Environment+Weaponry+Equipment+Teammates=Combat Dogma. The idea that 1 frame type beats another is...narrow I guess I would say. it oversimplifies the complexity of the game which in turn drops context from the equation leading to imbalance. Let me clarify my question about HMG alternates. 1. Would you expect a movement slowdown effect to be applied to the Assault HMG/Burst HMGs when they are used? Assault HMG really isn't that good. The problem isn't that it is lackluster up close. It's an extended range HMG, so that is to be expected. It's just that the range at which it is effective is a bit narrow and comes up rarely. Essentially the instances where a heavy will be at the right range to use said Assault HMG are far and few between. So no one loads it out for that. If it had more effective range then maybe it would be equipped more often. Add to that the Assault is a mid range weapon -- which implies more open areas. So a slowdown effect would be further detrimental to those situations. Take the burst. The HMG that requires the most skill to use. Why would you create a stutter effect? You don't see many Burst HMGs -- and I'll be honest -- the Burst HMG is much better than the standard right now. Even after the last change. I say change because everyone thinks it was nerfed when it was not. So they stopped using it. It just requires more skill to use now. But add a stutter effect to it, and you'll be unable to aim with it, so I don't see how a slowdown would help there.
DRT 99 Unleashed Hybrid's 12	Posted - 2015.01.18 08:23:00 - [58] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: DRT 99 wrote: Edit: I noticed you were moving fast, also noticed that assault HMG. Respect the fact that you actually got it to work, never seems to do anything other than make loud noises when i use it. On Line Harvest I can do as well with an Assault HMG as any other HMG. I can do well with it on Ashland as well. You need open spaces with sufficient cover scattered about so you can control range. If it had a bit more range it would be useful in a lot more circumstances. Your target needs to be ideally between 20m and 35m away. It sort of sucks in CQC, but since it is meant to be a medium range weapon I don't see a problem with that. You can still kill stuff close up, it just takes longer. Regular HMG still does excellent damage at those ranges - and i wouldnt be surprised if it outDPSed the assault at the majority of that range bracket. I simply didnt see a reason to use it over a rifle.
Lady MDK Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 259	Posted - 2015.01.18 08:35:00 - [59] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: Lady MDK wrote: The issue as i see is the weapon not the suit. Sentinals were billed as anti vehicle platforms which is fine the forge gun does this job well. The commando is a heavy class that can field multiple light weapons and does its job well. The issue is that the game then has allows an anti vehicle platform to field an anti infantry weapon like the hmg. Of course a heavy should take out a medium suit, but from my angle all i often see are groups of sentinals with hmg's. The rep is sometimes an issue but only because the combo used can normally mow down any opposition with little danger. IMO make sent weaponry more AV especially if you are thinking of bringing back other HAV's and let commandos be the heavy anti infantry that they are. Flame on.... Never heard of the Sentinel Suit referred to as an AV platform before, and I have been playing DUST for 2 years. I mean, yes there has always been the Forge Gun, but that is just one of many AV weapons. Look at the suit description... It says something like 'the only suit that can go toe to toe with armoured vehicles and survive '. It just seems a little odd to me that they would put this and then give it an anti personel weapon like the hmg. Anyone getting annoyed by reading of the above post should consider the following. I don't care so neither should you :)
Kierkegaard Soren Eridani Light Horse Striker 651	Posted - 2015.01.18 11:05:00 - [60] - Quote Really like the idea. I have no real issue with heavies, but I find that HMG as it is has no real drawbacks comparative to its killing power. Rattati has tried to balance it around heat and I don't think it's worked. Anyway, +1 to OP proposal. Also, regarding the assault variant; considerably lower DPS, tight dispersion, better range, improved mobility when firing. A weapon designed to suppress from range and allow the heavy to engage in a limited fashion targets that are out in the open. Dedicated Commando. CEO of Eridani Light Horse Strikers. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing."



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