| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Kain Spero
Internal Error.
4173
   |
Posted - 2015.01.13 11:24:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:Regis Blackbird wrote:Unless I read it wrong, I am worried about the sudden jump from being classified as "New Player" and "Veteran".
If your earnings suddenly drop like a rock, just because you are now a "Veteran", it might **** off players.
I would prefer if the system was more dynamic with the amount of lifetime SP a character has, so a player linearly grows from being reliant on passive SP to active WP.
I.e:
Not
11,999,999 SP = New Player
12,000,000 SP = Veteran
Staggered over time makes alot of sense.maybe 1) 0-5 million Rrookie 2) 5-8 million Seasoned 3) 8-10 million Vet 4) 10-12 million Seasoned Vet 5) 12 million + Experienced Vet Something like this?
Really I think the threshold could be pretty low to go from New Player to "Veteran", so not much need for such a granular system.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
|
voidfaction
Nos Nothi
949
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 11:26:00 -
[32] - Quote
Will the minimum value be static or dynamic based on time in match?
You know how often MM (Scotty) wants to put you in a match the is more than half over or on the losing side of a proto stomp redlined.
Is MM going to be fixed so all matches begin from the start and never put in matches already in play?
Sorry, I really think this is a great idea but timing is wrong. MM needs fixed first. Maybe if MM did not put people against the proto stompers they would maybe try and not just AFK every match.
If you can't kill them scan them.
Meta 13
Proto Stomp G-I Scout
|
Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
1582
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 11:27:00 -
[33] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Numbers significantly higher than 2500 are deeply hard to hut without being a logi spammer.
Anything above 3000 is impossible without boosting or being in the top 0.5% native shooter badass player category. Since they are outliers they should not be used as a balancing factor.
Strongly disagree on that last point. Logis are more than capable of achieving 4000-5000 WPs in a very good match, even in PC. And why focus on logis? AV users and anti vehicle pilots can get upwards of 3000 WPs during a competitive match.
4500-5000 would be a more realistic number.
GIMMIE MY PINK LAZOR
|
Kain Spero
Internal Error.
4173
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 11:31:00 -
[34] - Quote
Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Numbers significantly higher than 2500 are deeply hard to hut without being a logi spammer.
Anything above 3000 is impossible without boosting or being in the top 0.5% native shooter badass player category. Since they are outliers they should not be used as a balancing factor. Strongly disagree on that last point. Logis are more than capable of achieving 4000-5000 WPs in a very good match, even in PC. And why focus on logis? AV users and anti vehicle pilots can get upwards of 3000 WPs during a competitive match. 4500-5000 would be a more realistic number.
I'd have to agree about the 3000 mark. I think the diminishing returns definitely shouldn't start until 3000 WP, but they start ramping up once you hit 4000.
Owner of Spero Escrow Services
Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news
|
Cat Merc
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
14431
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 11:37:00 -
[35] - Quote
How will the system determine who is a new player and who is a veteran?
Cat Merc for C¦¦P¦¦M¦¦9¦¦ CPM Nyan!
Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
|
Darth-Carbonite GIO
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
1582
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 11:37:00 -
[36] - Quote
Kain Spero wrote:Darth-Carbonite GIO wrote:Breakin Stuff wrote:Numbers significantly higher than 2500 are deeply hard to hut without being a logi spammer.
Anything above 3000 is impossible without boosting or being in the top 0.5% native shooter badass player category. Since they are outliers they should not be used as a balancing factor. Strongly disagree on that last point. Logis are more than capable of achieving 4000-5000 WPs in a very good match, even in PC. And why focus on logis? AV users and anti vehicle pilots can get upwards of 3000 WPs during a competitive match. 4500-5000 would be a more realistic number. I'd have to agree about the 3000 mark. I think the diminishing returns definitely shouldn't start until 3000 WP, but they start ramping up once you hit 4000.
Ramping up is reasonable, but I feel that it shouldn't hit the wall at 3000. I think some people may underestimate what is capable in a intense match, but I certainly shouldn't have to tell you that, Kain 
GIMMIE MY PINK LAZOR
|
Macchi00
LORD-BRITISH
Couedic Lancer And Shields
133
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 11:41:00 -
[37] - Quote
If SP reward is not, even he should not ISK reward
I love ForgeGun.
I made ForgeGun montage in YouTube.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIhuGxfbjSQ
|
m621 zma
247
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 12:47:00 -
[38] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:voidfaction wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
3) To prevent exploits, there will be no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points.
Attributes:
Veteran Minimum War Point Threshold = M (WP)
Please discuss and propose numbers
800 higher if you add WP for team scan kills for solo players like me. In 50 clone ambush? Really? But anyway, stating the obvious here, the threshold has to be different for different game modes. CCP Rattati wrote:
2) To prevent War Point exploits, there will be diminishing returns above a certain number of War Points, a high number that is "next to impossible" to reach with normal gameplay
I am very curious, though, what you consider this "next to impossible" amount of WP to be...
Well according to the daily challenges anything up to 20k should be achievable in a single battle... 
|
Sole Fenychs
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
584
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 13:08:00 -
[39] - Quote
So, basically, there will be no more SP during stomps for me.
Wonderful.
And yes, I've had matches where my team is stomped so hard that even 50WP became an achievement. |
Breakin Stuff
Internal Error.
Negative-Feedback
6366
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 13:10:00 -
[40] - Quote
I rarely hit below 250 even during a stomp.
If you're new then you would be on a different value scale than myself.
I literally have no justifiable excuse for performance that poor even if I were solo against 16 nyain san.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
|
|
|
Justicar Karnellia
Ikomari-Onu Enforcement
Caldari State
899
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 13:12:00 -
[41] - Quote
This is a good initiative and an initial WP minimum is a way to go.
I'd say we have to watch out for the proto-stomp effect. I have had matches (mostly skirmish), where all points are captured very early on (within the 1st minute), and then they are held by the opposing team until the end. In this scenario, after the initial slaughter, most people hang back, take some potshots , but don't really gather many war points as they are all redlined. They may try to do so (I always try as I'm a lone wolf) , and in doing so, lose even more suits but don't necessarily rack up WP. It would be delicate to punish these people who are in fact trying, but not necessarily earning WP, and are actively losing suits. What would then happen is if people figure out how the system works, once they realise there is no hope of a minimum WP, they will simply leave the game , as hanging around doesn't benefit them, and this wouldn't improve the game for anyone. Even a proto-stomper would like to play against other people I'm sure... and if they aren't killing people they aren't getting their minimum either.
|
Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1681
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 13:22:00 -
[42] - Quote
Iron Wolf Saber wrote:After rolling a few alts I have to wager that 12 million SP is veteran enough. By then even with badly spent SP you should be able to be still rather effective in at least one role or two.
Agreed. Somewhere between 10M and 20M SP. |
Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1682
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 13:40:00 -
[43] - Quote
voidfaction wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
3) To prevent exploits, there will be no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points.
Attributes:
Veteran Minimum War Point Threshold = M (WP)
Please discuss and propose numbers
800 higher if you add WP for team scan kills for solo players like me.
That'd come out to 16 sniper kills, which would be very high for even a great sniper in an Ambush match.
We should differentiate Min(WP) by play mode, then look to historically low WP functions/roles (e.g. sniping, reconnaissance, transport pilot, etc) to come up with reasonable expectations. A Sniper in Ambush, for example, might end an "active" session with only 5 takedowns and 250WP. |
Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
750
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 15:27:00 -
[44] - Quote
Min WP threshold should be equated based off median team score which would allow it to more accurately respond to varying battle scenarios.
Perhaps even a combination of mean and median calculations, perhaps preferencing the lower of the two.
Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
|
voidfaction
Nos Nothi
954
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 16:12:00 -
[45] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:voidfaction wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
3) To prevent exploits, there will be no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points.
Attributes:
Veteran Minimum War Point Threshold = M (WP)
Please discuss and propose numbers
800 higher if you add WP for team scan kills for solo players like me. That'd come out to 16 sniper kills, which would be very high for even a great sniper in an Ambush match. We should differentiate Min(WP) by play mode, then look to historically low WP functions/roles (e.g. sniping, reconnaissance, transport pilot, etc) to come up with reasonable expectations. A Sniper in Ambush, for example, might end an "active" session with only 5 takedowns and 250WP.
As an aside, too low a Min(WP) ceiling will guarantee that players leave match in advance of a stomp. Just wrapped up a round of Ambush against Nyain San. On our side, first place ended the match with 230WP, second place, 155, and third, 105. Scores like these can be observed all day everyday for those on the receiving end of a stomp. We can't penalize players like these; getting stomped is a sh!t enough gameplay experience as is.
yeah, the sniper would have to come out of the red line and maybe help the team a little.
If you can't kill them scan them.
Meta 13
Proto Stomp G-I Scout
|
Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1686
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 16:21:00 -
[46] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:Min WP threshold should be equated based off median team score which would allow it to more accurately respond to varying battle scenarios. Perhaps even a combination of mean and median calculations, perhaps preferencing the lower of the two.
^ Bingo.
voidfaction wrote:yeah, the sniper would have to come out of the red line and maybe help the team a little.
The sniper is as legitimate a role as the next. We should no doubt tease him, but labeling him AFK and docking his pay is a 'bit much. |
voidfaction
Nos Nothi
955
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 16:34:00 -
[47] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Bright Steel wrote:Min WP threshold should be equated based off median team score which would allow it to more accurately respond to varying battle scenarios. Perhaps even a combination of mean and median calculations, perhaps preferencing the lower of the two. ^ Bingo. voidfaction wrote:yeah, the sniper would have to come out of the red line and maybe help the team a little. The sniper is as legitimate a role as the next. We should certainly tease him, but labeling him AFK and docking his pay seems a 'bit much :-)
Never said sniper was not a legitimate role. I am a sniper when i need to be.
If you can't kill them scan them.
Meta 13
Proto Stomp G-I Scout
|
pumping up
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
10
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 16:53:00 -
[48] - Quote
What is your target ?
Will vets have more/less or the same SP payout as now?
While at that, could you please remove the 10k+ sp in a single match missions? So far I think I've only gotten very close to the 10k but I had one mission with 17k .... never going to happen without exploits.
Even though I play logi!
Calculating mean/median leaves people in the cold who join relatively late in the game.
Also consider if proto-stomp team is on your side... they will rack up points while you might net next to nothing thus being labeled "afk/useless" and you get no payout at all? |
Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1020
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:20:00 -
[49] - Quote
pumping up wrote:What is your target ?
Will vets have more/less or the same SP payout as now?
While at that, could you please remove the 10k+ sp in a single match missions? So far I think I've only gotten very close to the 10k but I had one mission with 17k .... never going to happen without exploits.
Not true. Is quite doable, not easy, not going to happen every game, but is doable without exploits. Unless playing to win is an exploit. Now, is it doable by every player in the game? Probably not.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
|
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
18287
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:28:00 -
[50] - Quote
Setting it too high runs the real risk of not awarding a team for anything. I have played games where nobody scored over 800 before.
CPM 1
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior
\\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
|
|
|
Logi Bro
Brutor Vanguard
Minmatar Republic
3402
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:28:00 -
[51] - Quote
I'm no genius, so I won't be proposing any numbers to fit your variables, but I wanted to comment on this:
Quote: 3) To prevent exploits, there will be no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points.
I think this is a very bad idea, albeit with good intentions. There are so many reasons why a veteran would have low warpoints, you couldn't possibly list them all, just to mention a few:
-Joined the game after it started, less time to rack up WPs
-Trying a new playstyle, unskilled, so less WPs
-Using a gimmick fitting for fun, won't earn as many WPs
-Protostomp, unable to leave redline without instantly dying, therefore no WPs
So you are basically punishing people if they aren't in a perfectly balanced game, using their best fitting. It is especially bad in the protostomp and joined late scenarios because it is totally and completely outside of the player's ability to do anything, and they will have literally wasted their time and ISK for nothing.
Unless you made that minimum threshold 1 WP, it's a bad idea. Seeing the comments before mine, recommending 800 WP, I can tell I wouldn't be playing the game anymore.
SP Sinks? Fixed.
|
voidfaction
Nos Nothi
956
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:30:00 -
[52] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:pumping up wrote:What is your target ?
Will vets have more/less or the same SP payout as now?
While at that, could you please remove the 10k+ sp in a single match missions? So far I think I've only gotten very close to the 10k but I had one mission with 17k .... never going to happen without exploits.
Not true. Is quite doable, not easy, not going to happen every game, but is doable without exploits. Unless playing to win is an exploit. Now, is it doable by every player in the game? Probably not.
It's all about Boosters Boosters Boosters. Spend your money and you can be a winner too
If you can't kill them scan them.
Meta 13
Proto Stomp G-I Scout
|
Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1020
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:37:00 -
[53] - Quote
voidfaction wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:pumping up wrote:What is your target ?
Will vets have more/less or the same SP payout as now?
While at that, could you please remove the 10k+ sp in a single match missions? So far I think I've only gotten very close to the 10k but I had one mission with 17k .... never going to happen without exploits.
Not true. Is quite doable, not easy, not going to happen every game, but is doable without exploits. Unless playing to win is an exploit. Now, is it doable by every player in the game? Probably not. It's all about Boosters Boosters Boosters. Spend your money and you can be a winner too
Oh, doing it with boosters is easy, I meant without.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
|
pumping up
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:42:00 -
[54] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:voidfaction wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:pumping up wrote:What is your target ?
Will vets have more/less or the same SP payout as now?
While at that, could you please remove the 10k+ sp in a single match missions? So far I think I've only gotten very close to the 10k but I had one mission with 17k .... never going to happen without exploits.
Not true. Is quite doable, not easy, not going to happen every game, but is doable without exploits. Unless playing to win is an exploit. Now, is it doable by every player in the game? Probably not. It's all about Boosters Boosters Boosters. Spend your money and you can be a winner too Oh, doing it with boosters would be easy, I meant without.
Sorry, I tried really hard so far but it just -seems- impossible to me.
Though I saw people abusing shooting for 5k WP maybe those are enough for that. |
Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1020
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:43:00 -
[55] - Quote
pumping up wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:voidfaction wrote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:pumping up wrote:What is your target ?
Will vets have more/less or the same SP payout as now?
While at that, could you please remove the 10k+ sp in a single match missions? So far I think I've only gotten very close to the 10k but I had one mission with 17k .... never going to happen without exploits.
Not true. Is quite doable, not easy, not going to happen every game, but is doable without exploits. Unless playing to win is an exploit. Now, is it doable by every player in the game? Probably not. It's all about Boosters Boosters Boosters. Spend your money and you can be a winner too Oh, doing it with boosters would be easy, I meant without. Sorry, I tried really hard so far but it just -seems- impossible to me. Though I saw people abusing shooting for 5k WP maybe those are enough for that.
Abusing shooting? What?
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
|
Iria Gren
Liquid Swords
79
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:43:00 -
[56] - Quote
Bright Steel wrote:Min WP threshold should be equated based off median team score which would allow it to more accurately respond to varying battle scenarios.
Perhaps even a combination of mean and median calculations, perhaps preferencing the lower of the two.
so how about ten percent of the median value of all non zero wp results for your team ie
if wp == 0 no rewards
if wp =< 10/(Twp/{T-0wpT}) |
pumping up
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:45:00 -
[57] - Quote
Quote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:
Sorry, I tried really hard so far but it just -seems- impossible to me.
Though I saw people abusing shooting for 5k WP maybe those are enough for that.
Abusing shooting? What?
No, that was worded poorly. Someone abused the game to rack up 5k WP. (No kills no deaths on both sides - with same corp) |
Zaria Min Deir
0uter.Heaven
1020
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 17:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
pumping up wrote:Quote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:
Sorry, I tried really hard so far but it just -seems- impossible to me.
Though I saw people abusing shooting for 5k WP maybe those are enough for that.
Abusing shooting? What? No, that was worded poorly. Someone abused the game to rack up 5k WP. (No kills no deaths on both sides - with same corp)
Yes, ok, I get you now. Sure, there are people who do that. But high WP doesn't mean that someone was exploiting, those cases are the minority (at least in my experience).
The so called impossible 3k+, 4k+, 5k+ etc. WP games are far from impossible without exploiting, but like I said, it's not going to happen every game. You generally speaking need a game that lasts long enough, so ambush and skirmish are pretty much out, a domination game in which the point is highly contested and is held considerable lengths of time by each team is where you see that kind of WP, usually. And they are not just logis, as AV and vehicles, or some combination of the three are generally the ones with the highest WP from active games. I have seen assaults and scouts pull off 3k, 4k WP matches too, though that requires them to do things other than "see red dot. shoot."
Which is another reason some blanket minimum WP requirement is a bad idea. The length of the match should make a difference in determining what sort of WP someone should have generated if they were at least trying to contribute.
Quite honestly, I am more ok with the losers who spawn in and toss a few uplinks in the spawn area before going afk getting rewards, than someone who got ****** by the matchmaking, but still tried, being ripped off.
Have you considered installing the improved keyboard?
"Go Go Power Rangers!"
|
Bright Steel
Horizons' Edge
754
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 18:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
Iria Gren wrote:Bright Steel wrote:Min WP threshold should be equated based off median team score which would allow it to more accurately respond to varying battle scenarios.
Perhaps even a combination of mean and median calculations, perhaps preferencing the lower of the two. so how about ten percent of the median value of all non zero wp results for your team ie if wp == 0 no rewards if wp =< 10/(Twp/{T-0wpT})
Yes, the mean/median would be your reference point for the match and we can adjust from there as we see fit. Not sure 10% is the right number.
Proto squad all putting up 1500+ WP makes the mean (average) go way up but then the median (middle) of 8th place comes in. The lower of the two figures would be your point of reference.
How often is a "vet" not in the too 8?
Dust 514, the BEST WORST game you can't stop playing.
|
pumping up
Crux Special Tasks Group
Gallente Federation
11
|
Posted - 2015.01.13 18:03:00 -
[60] - Quote
Zaria Min Deir wrote:pumping up wrote:Quote:Zaria Min Deir wrote:
Sorry, I tried really hard so far but it just -seems- impossible to me.
Though I saw people abusing shooting for 5k WP maybe those are enough for that.
Abusing shooting? What? No, that was worded poorly. Someone abused the game to rack up 5k WP. (No kills no deaths on both sides - with same corp) Yes, ok, I get you now. Sure, there are people who do that. But high WP doesn't mean that someone was exploiting, those cases are the minority (at least in my experience). The so called impossible 3k+, 4k+, 5k+ etc. WP games are far from impossible without exploiting, but like I said, it's not going to happen every game.
I take your word for it. I just wanted to emphasize that the rewards shouldn't be set in the masters (boosters) league.
The reward for that mission was a decryptor or two :( |
|
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 5 6 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |