3) To prevent exploits, there will be no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points.

Attributes:
Veteran Minimum War Point Threshold = M (WP)


Please discuss and propose numbers

Agreed. We want this to a gradual step change to players can get used to it.

In 50 clone ambush? Really?

But anyway, stating the obvious here, the threshold has to be different for different game modes.

Make dust track the distance your character moves during the course of a match. If it's under X and you have less than Y kills, no SP and no ISK for you. Is it really that hard?

I hardly think you will stand by an objective (guarding it) and nobody will attack it in an entire match.
If they don't attack, they probably already captured the majority of the points and you will surely loose the match if you stay there.
Besides, now we also get guardian points for actions close to objectives, so it should be possible to guard and save up at least 200WP.

And I agree the minimum requirement should be low initially.

BTW Rattati when you do implement this I STRONGLY URGE UI to be added concerning this.

A pop up of being recognized as a veteran at least and how contributions will be shifting the SP payouts.

And a message on the EOM in the event you didn't earn enough warppoints to reap rewards at the end.

Based on my playthroughs and reading other peoples scores; 250 wps min threshold for doing stuff sounds about right for the average player in terms of effort. Some matches its very difficult to obtain if the other team is stomping pretty hard and certain roles do not excel at earning WP; AV most primary. At 250 most roles should be able to earn their keep.

That'd come out to 16 sniper kills, which would be very high for even a great sniper in an Ambush match.

We should differentiate Min(WP) by play mode, then look to historically low WP functions/roles (e.g. sniping, reconnaissance, transport pilot, etc) to come up with reasonable expectations. A Sniper in Ambush, for example, might end an "active" session with only 5 takedowns and 250WP.

---

As an aside, too low a Min(WP) ceiling will guarantee that players leave match in advance of a stomp.

Just wrapped up a round of Ambush against Nyain San. On our side, first place ended the match with 230WP, second place, 155, and third, 105. Scores like these can be observed all day everyday for those on the receiving end of a stomp. We can't penalize players like these; getting stomped is a sh!t enough gameplay experience as is.

^ Bingo.




The sniper is as legitimate a role as the next. We should certainly tease him, but labeling him AFK and docking his pay seems a 'bit much :-)

Not true. Is quite doable, not easy, not going to happen every game, but is doable without exploits. Unless playing to win is an exploit. Now, is it doable by every player in the game? Probably not.

Sorry, I tried really hard so far but it just -seems- impossible to me.

Though I saw people abusing shooting for 5k WP maybe those are enough for that.

Example of pub stomp:
1) 2500
2) 2100
3) 1800
4) 1500
5) 1500
6)1300
7) 1100
8) 900
9) 850
10) 750
11) 600
12) 550
13) 500
14) 350
15) 250
16) 75

Median= 909 and mean= 1123

A vet should be easily within 50% of the lowest, being the median

no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points ?

and Scotty putting us in matches wich are neraly done ?

so if a Team stomps the other and people start leaving what would i do if i get put into this match ?

Quit the Match asap because its a waste of time !

Guys guys guys

The goal is to stop afkers not punish scrubs keep this in mind.

Back in the beta days you had a LOT of crazy good players. You'd see the Imps, Zion, STB, PFBHz, etc and you knew you were in for a stomp. But you squaded up (there was actually auto squading back in those days) and did your best. I took it as a learning experience.

Now people just cry and deploy solo, derping around if they assume it's going to be a difficult fight. I'm not sure I understand why a person would even turn on a FPS with that attitude.

You can't bring 100 mil SP to the field at one time no matter how hard you try.

So you are saying people with less than 800 should get nothing?

I think they should get something.

That this idea is still a "thing" is beyond pathetic.

New players who begin a DUST careerpath have significantly more ways and option for significantly accelerated SP gains vs. what Vets have had.

I'm talking about-
Daily Login Bonuses (6k/day, 40k/week potential).
Daily Mission Rewards (2k-20k individually, way more if you do them all).
A 700k (!) weekly cap coupled with
The ability to TRIPLE STACK (!) boosters of the player's choice.
A Loyalty Market ripe with Suits, Weapons, Equipment and Mods that allow for advance use w/out skills.
An Academy gamemode that allows for learning of basic gameplay elements against other no/low skill noobs instead of the fully protoed TeamPlayers or Imperfects pubteams.

NewBerries need more? Fine.
But don't penalize me because they can't handle their ****.

This is a Persistent RPG Universe. That inherently means that a beginner will be SOL facing experienced vets. Just like any other game that pits a weaker character vs a stronger one.

DO NOT reward MY starting the game at its introduction, STAYING through all the "patches" and "hotfixes" that flip-flopped stats and values almost weekly, CONTINUING through even the craziest videogame debacle of recent industry history (looking at YOU, Rouge Wedding) with a now diminished ability to proceed forward. If I or ColdbloodedMax or ANYONE else, whatever their veteranstatus is, has an excellent game and posts up 10million-jillion WP we DESERVE the concurrent SP. Not some reduced total because of some social-science theory bs about advancement compared to those who HAVEN'T put in the time and energy.

I am astounded that as proposed this even made it off the drawing board and into the proposal pile.


If I order a hundred large pizzas from a pizza shop over time and then order a medium they DON'T send me a small, because I've always ordered larges.
If I go to the bar and order a hundred pitchers over time and then order a pint, they don't give me an 8oz glass.
If I study at a University, get a BS then an MS then a PHD, when I get my second PHD, they don't give me a Bachelors-they give me my second PHD!!


It has NEVER been EASIER to make huge SP gains in a short amount of time in DUST for "New" Players. Don't make it harder for Old Players now or you will find that in remodeling the restaraunt to attract more seasonal traffic you alienate and kill the local, regular traffic that KEEPS YOU IN BUSINESS LONG-TERM.

Thought this thread was about eliminating AFK.
Who would moan about that?

I was referring to El Operator. He seems really upset.

This thread is about restructuring SP generation to both help the NPE as well as punish AFK. Both of which are entirely noble and worthwhile goals. I'm upset, yes, because the proposal as is presents as a conerstone the idea that "Veteran" players will accrue SP at a slower ratio per WarPoint once their WP total exceeds a certain amount. That is my problem with this proposal. I am being penalized for having spent the last 2 years playing this game and supporting CCP financially through this game. And its crazy to me that anyone who can think past what happens at 15 or 25M SP, or w/e the final definition of a "Vet" becomes, would consider this a good idea. You idiots are perpetuating the grind onto yourselves which I wouldn't care about EXCEPT you're perpetuating it for me too! You folks are advocating to have your own progression hamstrung at the higher levels on some false premise that doing so will suddenly 180-¦ the NPE!!
You want to 180-¦ the NPE? Add those guides that were proposed that were ideafarmed for content a couple months back!! Even out the matchmaking!! AutoSquad Noobs based on their SP! And a hundred other ideas the forums have proposed in the last two years. Extend the Academy some more, add a tier to it that noobs can go back into which is Meta-controlled and SP capped until they're farther along! Add Meta-level capped gamemodes!! etc etc etc. But don't start ******* with my progression or it's rate, I earned my progress and deserve to be able to continue progressing unimpeded moving forward.
Unless these "New Players" are automatically allocated 50million SP and 2 years familiarity and experience in the game they aren't going to be evenly keeled with me or Vets like me anyways . What there'll be, is New Players paying less in both time and MONEY to receive more while individuals such as myself STOP paying altogether, since continuing progression will NOT be worth it. We'll just rack our passive (till that dissappears b/c, y' know, passive SP is OP) so we have something to spend on the rare occasion we actually decide to turn the game on and play.

1) Two formulas, one for New Players and one for Veteran Players.

The New Players will be awarded more SP per BattleSecond and less per War Point, the reverse for Veterans. Now Veterans have a higher upside, but they need to do something in battle so AFKing will be rather worthless for Veterans. New Players will not be stuck in a situation they can't get out of, while they learn the game.

Attributes:
New Player Skill Points/BattleSecond = A (integer)
Veteran Player Skill Points/BattleSecond = B (integer)
New Player Skill Points/War Point = C (integer)
New Player Skill Points/War Point = D (integer)