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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 14598	Posted - 2015.01.13 07:23:00 - [1] - Quote Dear players, we will be implementing the following change to Skill Point calculations 1) Two formulas, one for New Players and one for Veteran Players. The New Players will be awarded more SP per BattleSecond and less per War Point, the reverse for Veterans. Now Ceterans have a higher upside, but they need to do something in battle so AFKing will be rather worthless for Veterans. New Players will not be stuck in a situation they can't get out of, while they learn the game. Attributes: New Player Skill Points/BattleSecond = A (integer) Veteran Player Skill Points/BattleSecond = B (integer) New Player Skill Points/War Point = C (integer) New Player Skill Points/War Point = D (integer) 2) To prevent War Point exploits, there will be diminishing returns above a certain number of War Points, a high number that is "next to impossible" to reach with normal gameplay Attributes: War Point Threshold = T (WP) War Point Diminisher = P (%) 3) To prevent exploits, there will be no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points. Attributes: Veteran Minimum War Point Threshold = M (WP) Please discuss and propose numbers "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5334	Posted - 2015.01.13 07:28:00 - [2] - Quote Pretty excited to see how this can address problems for both the NPE and AFK exploit behaviors. CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 18278	Posted - 2015.01.13 07:35:00 - [3] - Quote After rolling a few alts I have to wager that 12 million SP is veteran enough. By then even with badly spent SP you should be able to be still rather effective in at least one role or two. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
LAVALLOIS Nash 426	Posted - 2015.01.13 07:39:00 - [4] - Quote I like the idea as a solution to prevent AFKing by making it worthless, but I just want to add, chasing SP is not the biggest reward or motivator. ISK is. Winning it or losing it motives people to do things. If this goes though, ISK payments should be better indexed to effort. Right now, the rewards are better for going 10-0 than for going 0-10. Except the guy who went 10-0 was up against under matched opponents and didn't sweat it, whears the guy who went 0-10 put alot of effort in, and also lost 10 suits. So if SP is adjusted other metrics for payment not tied to WP should be considered. there have been matches where I pushed hard in a losing game, lost 10 suits, and got 70,000ISK for my effort. Trust me, I was not as motivated for several matches afterwards. I just figured since you want to fix AFKing, you should look at one of the root causes, which is a system that rewards numbers instead of effort and hard work.
Iria Gren Liquid Swords 78	Posted - 2015.01.13 07:42:00 - [5] - Quote 21 mill sp scrub here(lots of passive since beta) wp minimum threshold should be less in ambush than in skirmish and domination shorter game with fewer opportunity for wp.
Terry Webber Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 549	Posted - 2015.01.13 07:53:00 - [6] - Quote While I don't feel qualified to give reasonable numbers, I like the effort being taken to discourage AFK actions and helping new players.
John Psi Vacuum Cleaner. LLC Steel Balls Alliance 1142	Posted - 2015.01.13 07:59:00 - [7] - Quote Not understand a formula, can anyone explain? ((( Please support fair play!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 14604	Posted - 2015.01.13 08:00:00 - [8] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: I like the idea as a solution to prevent AFKing by making it worthless, but I just want to add, chasing SP is not the biggest reward or motivator. ISK is. Winning it or losing it motives people to do things. If this goes though, ISK payments should be better indexed to effort. Right now, the rewards are better for going 10-0 than for going 0-10. Except the guy who went 10-0 was up against under matched opponents and didn't sweat it, whears the guy who went 0-10 put alot of effort in, and also lost 10 suits. So if SP is adjusted other metrics for payment not tied to WP should be considered. there have been matches where I pushed hard in a losing game, lost 10 suits, and got 70,000ISK for my effort. Trust me, I was not as motivated for several matches afterwards. I just figured since you want to fix AFKing, you should look at one of the root causes, which is a system that rewards numbers instead of effort and hard work. Many afk for SP, others for ISK. I am trying to eliminate both as well as figure out a way to make winning rewarding, but trying hard and losing, not the end of the world. It's not an easy problem. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

voidfaction Nos Nothi 948	Posted - 2015.01.13 08:03:00 - [9] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 3) To prevent exploits, there will be no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points. Attributes: Veteran Minimum War Point Threshold = M (WP) Please discuss and propose numbers 800 higher if you add WP for team scan kills for solo players like me. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
Kain Spero Internal Error. 4173	Posted - 2015.01.13 08:09:00 - [10] - Quote Looks like some great stuff and solves the age old of problem of trying to head off AFKing being something that hurts new players. I would start low with the minimum WP threshold like 100 to 300 WP, see how it works, and then go from there. Owner of Spero Escrow Services Follow @KainSpero for Dust and Legion news

LAVALLOIS Nash 426	Posted - 2015.01.13 08:55:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Many afk for SP, others for ISK. I am trying to eliminate both as well as figure out a way to make winning rewarding, but trying hard and losing, not the end of the world. It's not an easy problem. Yeah I understand. Any metric that could be used (distance covered, damaged caused, ect) could be subject to abuse if someone figures out how to game the formula. Its also the question of not wanting to reward failure. I get that too. I dont want to derail your thread into a thread about ISK rates, so i wont mention that any further. I dont think the idea is bad, as I have no problem with paying AFKers nothing. ill have to reserve further judgement for when the feature is introduced to see how it pans out.
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6360	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:03:00 - [12] - Quote Put a x100-1000 multiplier on WP rewards for ISK. If you're simply breathing on the battlefield you get a consolation prize of 10k ISK. this should be implemented for veterans above the 10m mark. SP rewards based on WP for vets is excellent. Please make it happen. But for ISK rewards, keeping it simple keeps it difficult to deny the enemy a payout by fielding the most cheapsh** things you can. The more simple the equation the less variables there are to screw up the game. But separating vets from newbies is a good thing on the rewards scale. One of the problems with the rewards is payouts do not escalate with experience and skill. They also fail to punish people who should know better for screwing off. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 2210	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:13:00 - [13] - Quote Kain Spero wrote: Looks like some great stuff and solves the age old of problem of trying to head off AFKing being something that hurts new players. I would start low with the minimum WP threshold like 100 to 300 WP, see how it works, and then go from there. Agreed. We want this to a gradual step change to players can get used to it. CPM 1 member CEO of DUST University Vist dustcpm.com
voidfaction Nos Nothi 949	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:33:00 - [14] - Quote Kevall Longstride wrote: Kain Spero wrote: Looks like some great stuff and solves the age old of problem of trying to head off AFKing being something that hurts new players. I would start low with the minimum WP threshold like 100 to 300 WP, see how it works, and then go from there. Agreed. We want this to a gradual step change to players can get used to it. Minimum 100-300, lol Did I miss read it. I thought the minimum WP threshold is for vets not noobs. Drop 8 uplinks and see you when the match is over. Later....Bye....Cya.....Enjoy your game. The 800 i suggested is a joke for any logi. Send out the memo if you want to afk or not try then deploy a logi and drop eq then sit in the red line. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1018	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:35:00 - [15] - Quote voidfaction wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 3) To prevent exploits, there will be no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points. Attributes: Veteran Minimum War Point Threshold = M (WP) Please discuss and propose numbers 800 higher if you add WP for team scan kills for solo players like me. In 50 clone ambush? Really? But anyway, stating the obvious here, the threshold has to be different for different game modes. CCP Rattati wrote: 2) To prevent War Point exploits, there will be diminishing returns above a certain number of War Points, a high number that is "next to impossible" to reach with normal gameplay I am very curious, though, what you consider this "next to impossible" amount of WP to be... Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
voidfaction Nos Nothi 949	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:53:00 - [16] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: voidfaction wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 3) To prevent exploits, there will be no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points. Attributes: Veteran Minimum War Point Threshold = M (WP) Please discuss and propose numbers 800 higher if you add WP for team scan kills for solo players like me. In 50 clone ambush? Really? But anyway, stating the obvious here, the threshold has to be different for different game modes. I don't play ambush or dom so my figure is based on what I can get without trying in skirmish using all bpo gear. So yes they might need to be different figures for different game modes. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
sammus420 Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 440	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:54:00 - [17] - Quote Make dust track the distance your character moves during the course of a match. If it's under X and you have less than Y kills, no SP and no ISK for you. Is it really that hard?
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6361	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:56:00 - [18] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: voidfaction wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 3) To prevent exploits, there will be no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points. Attributes: Veteran Minimum War Point Threshold = M (WP) Please discuss and propose numbers 800 higher if you add WP for team scan kills for solo players like me. In 50 clone ambush? Really? But anyway, stating the obvious here, the threshold has to be different for different game modes. CCP Rattati wrote: 2) To prevent War Point exploits, there will be diminishing returns above a certain number of War Points, a high number that is "next to impossible" to reach with normal gameplay I am very curious, though, what you consider this "next to impossible" amount of WP to be... Numbers significantly higher than 2500 are deeply hard to hut without being a logi spammer. Anything above 3000 is impossible without boosting or being in the top 0.5% native shooter badass player category. Since they are outliers they should not be used as a balancing factor. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
voidfaction Nos Nothi 949	Posted - 2015.01.13 09:56:00 - [19] - Quote sammus420 wrote: Make dust track the distance your character moves during the course of a match. If it's under X and you have less than Y kills, no SP and no ISK for you. Is it really that hard? Well that would be 1 good way to get rid of snipers If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1019	Posted - 2015.01.13 10:00:00 - [20] - Quote sammus420 wrote: Make dust track the distance your character moves during the course of a match. If it's under X and you have less than Y kills, no SP and no ISK for you. Is it really that hard? Shouldn't be hard at all, considering that they already track the distance for one of the daily missions. Meaningful, on the other hand, is another thing entirely.... Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"

Zaria Min Deir 0uter.Heaven 1019	Posted - 2015.01.13 10:01:00 - [21] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Zaria Min Deir wrote: voidfaction wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 3) To prevent exploits, there will be no Skill Points granted to Veterans with less than minimum War Points. Attributes: Veteran Minimum War Point Threshold = M (WP) Please discuss and propose numbers 800 higher if you add WP for team scan kills for solo players like me. In 50 clone ambush? Really? But anyway, stating the obvious here, the threshold has to be different for different game modes. CCP Rattati wrote: 2) To prevent War Point exploits, there will be diminishing returns above a certain number of War Points, a high number that is "next to impossible" to reach with normal gameplay I am very curious, though, what you consider this "next to impossible" amount of WP to be... Numbers significantly higher than 2500 are deeply hard to hut without being a logi spammer. Anything above 3000 is impossible without boosting or being in the top 0.5% native shooter badass player category. Since they are outliers they should not be used as a balancing factor. "Logi spammer" = playing as a logi, in your opinion, then? Have you considered installing the improved keyboard? "Go Go Power Rangers!"
voidfaction Nos Nothi 949	Posted - 2015.01.13 10:02:00 - [22] - Quote So now vets will no long be able to just guard a objective because if they do and nobody ever comes and attacks it they get nothing. So no more tactics the game is being pushed to you run and gun or you get nothing. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 538	Posted - 2015.01.13 10:19:00 - [23] - Quote voidfaction wrote: So now vets will no long be able to just guard a objective because if they do and nobody ever comes and attacks it they get nothing. So no more tactics the game is being pushed to you run and gun or you get nothing. I hardly think you will stand by an objective (guarding it) and nobody will attack it in an entire match. If they don't attack, they probably already captured the majority of the points and you will surely loose the match if you stay there. Besides, now we also get guardian points for actions close to objectives, so it should be possible to guard and save up at least 200WP. And I agree the minimum requirement should be low initially.
Regis Blackbird DUST University Ivy League 538	Posted - 2015.01.13 10:31:00 - [24] - Quote Unless I read it wrong, I am worried about the sudden jump from being classified as "New Player" and "Veteran". If your earnings suddenly drop like a rock, just because you are now a "Veteran", it might **** off players. I would prefer if the system was more dynamic with the amount of lifetime SP a character has, so a player linearly grows from being reliant on passive SP to active WP. I.e: Not 11,999,999 SP = New Player 12,000,000 SP = Veteran
Breakin Stuff Internal Error. Negative-Feedback 6361	Posted - 2015.01.13 10:43:00 - [25] - Quote Zaria Min Deir wrote: "Logi spammer" = playing as a logi, in your opinion, then? I need to figure out a better descriptor. Playing as a logi is an easy way to rack up WP. So does AV during vehicle spam which generally leaves scouts, assaults and HMG heavies in the cold. Good assaults, scouts and HMGs realistically can slam out between 1000-1500 warpoints from being particularly productive between kills and hacks. I would set the diminishing return threshold at 1500 and absolute cap at 3000, with RAPID diminishment between 1500 and 2000. That way the 2k-3k bracket holds the lowest value per WP. Ambush will naturally enjoy lower payouts but for fast matches which are quick and only require killing people should be forced to pay similarly for two ten minute ambushes as you would get for a 20-25 minute dom or skirm. Not the same ISK pay layout. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
voidfaction Nos Nothi 949	Posted - 2015.01.13 10:50:00 - [26] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: voidfaction wrote: So now vets will no long be able to just guard a objective because if they do and nobody ever comes and attacks it they get nothing. So no more tactics the game is being pushed to you run and gun or you get nothing. I hardly think you will stand by an objective (guarding it) and nobody will attack it in an entire match. If they don't attack, they probably already captured the majority of the points and you will surely loose the match if you stay there. Besides, now we also get guardian points for actions close to objectives, so it should be possible to guard and save up at least 200WP. And I agree the minimum requirement should be low initially. I have been in plenty of skirmish matches where i stayed at an objective and had nobody attack it and we won the match. You know the matches when you have the proto stompers on your team that redline the other team. I stay back waiting on the scout like me that will run to the enemy home point to try and pull the enemy back. Why does it need to be so low for vets? most the vets are pussies in proto squads getting all the WP anyway. Set it high so if you don't run proto you get nothing. So many Vets that only run proto in squads pushing the noobs to quit so set it high to help push out the casual player that plays pubs solo in std fits too. match making does not work so until they can get balanced matches this idea is just stupid. They need to get match making or meta lockouts before they do this because all it will do is give the rich proto stomper corps that already cheated PC payouts even more ways to grief other players. If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 18279	Posted - 2015.01.13 11:06:00 - [27] - Quote BTW Rattati when you do implement this I STRONGLY URGE UI to be added concerning this. A pop up of being recognized as a veteran at least and how contributions will be shifting the SP payouts. And a message on the EOM in the event you didn't earn enough warppoints to reap rewards at the end. Based on my playthroughs and reading other peoples scores; 250 wps min threshold for doing stuff sounds about right for the average player in terms of effort. Some matches its very difficult to obtain if the other team is stomping pretty hard and certain roles do not excel at earning WP; AV most primary. At 250 most roles should be able to earn their keep. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Forge Gun=// Unlocked
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 701	Posted - 2015.01.13 11:14:00 - [28] - Quote Isnt it mostly new player alts that are AFK? All the starter Swarm fits i see kneeling up and down/ running in circles usually are in NPC corps. Veterans are more certainly more likely to stat boost to abuse the system with their main characters to gain SP, and AFK farm for isk the rest of the time. Go 0-0 with 0 wp you won't break 1,000 SP. And now with increased ISK payouts, i imagine there will be alot more AFKing going around. Sure i'll take more SP per warpoint, and as long as it doesn't nerf my passive SP accruall I don't mind losing some per second in battle. Still, we have to be careful in not affording a disporportionate amount of SP to vet Logis and the like. Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
voidfaction Nos Nothi 949	Posted - 2015.01.13 11:14:00 - [29] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: BTW Rattati when you do implement this I STRONGLY URGE UI to be added concerning this. A pop up of being recognized as a veteran at least and how contributions will be shifting the SP payouts. And a message on the EOM in the event you didn't earn enough warppoints to reap rewards at the end. Based on my playthroughs and reading other peoples scores; 250 wps min threshold for doing stuff sounds about right for the average player in terms of effort. Some matches its very difficult to obtain if the other team is stomping pretty hard and certain roles do not excel at earning WP; AV most primary. At 250 most roles should be able to earn their keep. Should be able to get that sitting in the redline the entire match If you can't kill them scan them. Meta 13 Proto Stomp G-I Scout
Tesfa Alem Death by Disassociation 701	Posted - 2015.01.13 11:18:00 - [30] - Quote Regis Blackbird wrote: Unless I read it wrong, I am worried about the sudden jump from being classified as "New Player" and "Veteran". If your earnings suddenly drop like a rock, just because you are now a "Veteran", it might **** off players. I would prefer if the system was more dynamic with the amount of lifetime SP a character has, so a player linearly grows from being reliant on passive SP to active WP. I.e: Not 11,999,999 SP = New Player 12,000,000 SP = Veteran Staggered over time makes alot of sense.maybe 1) 0-5 million Rrookie 2) 5-8 million Seasoned 3) 8-10 million Vet 4) 10-12 million Seasoned Vet 5) 12 million + Experienced Vet Something like this? Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.



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