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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 16:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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VikingKong iBUN
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
343
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:09:00 -
[2] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
This part is only true if you're against a team that's ****. Against a good team you would be getting shot, making swarm launcher use slightly more difficult. |
Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1438
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Why so many dropships in PC?
Why so few swarms? |
Forlorn Destrier
Incorruptibles
3136
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:19:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous.
This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players.
I cannot support your complaint.
I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:20:00 -
[5] - Quote
There are dropships in PC because they're vital for a win, there aren't many swarms because they can't kill infantry, and in an organised battle if you're running around after vehicles when you can't kill infantry you're effectively useless,which is why forge guns and rail tanks are used instead.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
5993
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:21:00 -
[6] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:A bunch of correct stuff. Just adding to this: swarms, quite literally, only target installations and vehicles. You are saccing a potential anti-infantry weapon slot for a potent AV weapon.
Just call me Ripple. Ripple Riley.
My advice to you, playa...
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:21:00 -
[7] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players. I cannot support your complaint.
speed mods were nerfed so swarms can catch up to ADS easily, when you're in an ADS it's almost impossible to avoid to first volleys from swarm launchers, normal dropships could never avoid them, however they can get a lot more HP than ADS
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
5169
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:22:00 -
[8] - Quote
Swarms have a very limited range compared to forge guns. They used to be entirely a non-threat, and no, that's never going back the way it was. Because dropships are still one of the hardest to kill things in the game thanks to the fact that only a couple weapons can even damage them.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:24:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:A bunch of correct stuff. Just adding to this: swarms, quite literally, only target installations and vehicles. You saccing a potential anti-infantry weapon for a potent AV weapon.
Even so, it should take a little more skill to take down dropships, tanks are in an alright place because they have so much HP, but ADS don't have that, all they had was their speed to get away from swarms, which made them usless because they were so far away from battle, now that the speed is gone they can't even do that.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Sir Snugglz
Red Star.
EoN.
1025
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:25:00 -
[10] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Why so many dropships in PC?
Why so few swarms?
not true. I see atleast 3-4 minmando swarmers in every PC compared to the 2-3 derpships
-Pro AFKing LVL 5
-Luck is just one of my skills
-Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:25:00 -
[11] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Swarms have a very limited range compared to forge guns. They used to be entirely a non-threat, and no, that's never going back the way it was. Because dropships are still one of the hardest to kill things in the game thanks to the fact that only a couple weapons can even damage them.
Swarms have always been a threat to dropships, because if they didn't destroy them from the initial damage they deal, they would flip the dropship around until it crashed and burned, now they're unescapable and just a way for AV to get easy wp
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:27:00 -
[12] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Why so many dropships in PC?
Why so few swarms? not true. I see atleast 3-4 minmando swarmers in every PC compared to the 2-3 derpships
and in pub matches, the majority of the enemy team will bring out some sort of AV if the ADS is seen on the killfeed, so soon after there are a load of missiles coming at your expensive flying coffin that you can't do anything to avoid
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
5170
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:30:00 -
[13] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Swarms have a very limited range compared to forge guns. They used to be entirely a non-threat, and no, that's never going back the way it was. Because dropships are still one of the hardest to kill things in the game thanks to the fact that only a couple weapons can even damage them. Swarms have always been a threat to dropships, because if they didn't destroy them from the initial damage they deal, they would flip the dropship around until it crashed and burned, now they're unescapable and just a way for AV to get easy wp
Let me ask you, how many dropships do you lose a match, on average? Are you using a standard dropship or an ADS? How many kills do you average in a match?
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:48:00 -
[14] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Swarms have a very limited range compared to forge guns. They used to be entirely a non-threat, and no, that's never going back the way it was. Because dropships are still one of the hardest to kill things in the game thanks to the fact that only a couple weapons can even damage them. Swarms have always been a threat to dropships, because if they didn't destroy them from the initial damage they deal, they would flip the dropship around until it crashed and burned, now they're unescapable and just a way for AV to get easy wp Let me ask you, how many dropships do you lose a match, on average? Are you using a standard dropship or an ADS? How many kills do you average in a match?
I don't normally get many kills with my ADS because i'm always avoiding the swarms that seem to be all over the map, so i don't get many kills but i don't die too much either. when i go for kills i get more kills but i lose 3-4 ADS in the game, which is a lot of isk lost.
And then you have swarms, which can happily sit behind their team taking pot shots at any vehicle they see, yes they have a weakness against infantry, but thats what sidearms are for. Swarm users aren't a big flying object either, so they can be seen from across the map by the things that are specifically designed to kill them.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:50:00 -
[15] - Quote
Also, ADS were more of a threat when they had a much higher RoF, but now thats gone as well, so they can't kill people as easily, and AV can kill them much easier.
This is another double nerf that CCP seem to love doing...
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
5170
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Posted - 2015.01.02 17:58:00 -
[16] - Quote
Swarm users don't have a weakness against infantry. They're useless against infantry. Sidearms don't really help that much. It was very common to lose six proto swarm fits trying to catch one ADS.
It sounds like your kills/deaths is probably pretty healthy. Because yes, playing aggressively should cause you to lose your ADS a few times in a match.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Yeeeuuuupppp
B.A.L.A.M.O.R.Y. G.L.O.R.Y.
759
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:02:00 -
[17] - Quote
Countermeasures = Flares or something that blocks the lock, but to balance it out, swarms range would have to be tweaked a bit
See you on the flip side brother
PSN: GMANCASH
One day I hope to cover a caldari stripper in chocolate
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:11:00 -
[18] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Swarm users don't have a weakness against infantry. They're useless against infantry. Sidearms don't really help that much. It was very common to lose six proto swarm fits trying to catch one ADS.
It sounds like your kills/deaths is probably pretty healthy. Because yes, playing aggressively should cause you to lose your ADS a few times in a match.
Sidearms are a massive help, and if you lose 6 proto swarm fits then you're doing something wrong, it's always been easy to get rid of dropships, whether they're destroyed or just pushed into the redline for the rest of the game.
And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
545
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:11:00 -
[19] - Quote
Swamrs only usefulness is to work against vehicles. It can't do anything else other than that, so yeah it should exceed at its role to take out vehicles (and be widely use because you can use swarms on all dropsuits and you can only use the Forge Gun on a Heavy Basic Frame and Sentinel and PLCs are laughable against vehicles)
So do what I do when I go use my ADS, Don't hover over an area :D do strafe runs. It is more fun than hovering over a place anyways.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1439
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:15:00 -
[20] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Why so many dropships in PC?
Why so few swarms? not true. I see atleast 3-4 minmando swarmers in every PC compared to the 2-3 derpships
If you are correct, and OP is correct, then those 2-3 derpships wouldn't last long, would they?
Methinks one of you must be mistaken. |
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:15:00 -
[21] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Swamrs only usefulness is to work against vehicles. It can't do anything else other than that, so yeah it should exceed at its role to take out vehicles (and be widely use because you can use swarms on all dropsuits and you can only use the Forge Gun on a Heavy Basic Frame and Sentinel and PLCs are laughable against vehicles)
So do what I do when I go use my ADS, Don't hover over an area :D do strafe runs. It is more fun than hovering over a place anyways.
And how well do you do with that? considering that swarms get 75 points just for hitting the ADS (which as we all know is really easy) how many kills/wp do you get by doing strafe runs?
strafing runs used to work well with the ADSs high RoF, but with the low RoF the ADS has now, strafing runs are barely viable
ADS have gone from a killing machine to something you use to take out rooftop links in PC
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
5174
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:16:00 -
[22] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships
Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:17:00 -
[23] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance.
Well when swarms are easy to get a hold of and skill into, but ADS take a load of SP to skill into, don't balance it.
Things should only be balanced if it takes a similar amount of SP and isk to use each of them, which with swarms and ADS isn't the case
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:20:00 -
[24] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Sir Snugglz wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Why so many dropships in PC?
Why so few swarms? not true. I see atleast 3-4 minmando swarmers in every PC compared to the 2-3 derpships If you are correct, and OP is correct, then those 2-3 derpships wouldn't last long, would they? Methinks one of you must be mistaken.
They don't last long, thats why most ADS users in PC getpayed much more than everyone else because they're always losing their ADS. This only doesn't apply when the team those ADS are against aren't using any AV at all
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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boba's fetta
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
927
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:23:00 -
[25] - Quote
ads should get counter measures only if the ads actully explodes the instant you hit zero hp instead of allowing you to bail every goddam time cheating me of my hard earned kill.
good pilots are extreamly difficult to down and swarms are not as skill less as you claim. you need to know which targets you can take and when to fire.
oh dear the other team has 4 people who can make you run off.
oh no swarms are op because you always get hit by the first volley. shame it only takes 4 volleys to kill a **** fit ads.
you should actully try thosse op swarms and come back and tell us all how easy they are.
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boba's fetta
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
927
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:25:00 -
[26] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:Swamrs only usefulness is to work against vehicles. It can't do anything else other than that, so yeah it should exceed at its role to take out vehicles (and be widely use because you can use swarms on all dropsuits and you can only use the Forge Gun on a Heavy Basic Frame and Sentinel and PLCs are laughable against vehicles)
So do what I do when I go use my ADS, Don't hover over an area :D do strafe runs. It is more fun than hovering over a place anyways. And how well do you do with that? considering that swarms get 75 points just for hitting the ADS (which as we all know is really easy) how many kills/wp do you get by doing strafe runs? strafing runs used to work well with the ADSs high RoF, but with the low RoF the ADS has now, strafing runs are barely viable ADS have gone from a killing machine to something you use to take out rooftop links in PC
incorrect you do not get 75 points for hitting a ads with swarms. several volleys doing considerable damage must hit. you have to pretty much take out a pythons shield before you get a single point.
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
149
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:31:00 -
[27] - Quote
boba's fetta wrote:ads should get counter measures only if the ads actully explodes the instant you hit zero hp instead of allowing you to bail every goddam time cheating me of my hard earned kill.
good pilots are extreamly difficult to down and swarms are not as skill less as you claim. you need to know which targets you can take and when to fire.
oh dear the other team has 4 people who can make you run off.
oh no swarms are op because you always get hit by the first volley. shame it only takes 4 volleys to kill a **** fit ads.
you should actully try thosse op swarms and come back and tell us all how easy they are.
I do have swarms to prototypes and I do use them, yes it's hard to take down really good pilots, but that's because they're really good pilots...
And those 4 people that make ADS run off were more common before the nerf to ADS, now they're just 4 people who take out your expensive flying coffin without the pilots being able to do anything about it.
If you're telling me to use swarms more often, how about you use ADS? see if you get anywhere without being chased down by lock on missiles that are impossible to avoid.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
6712
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:33:00 -
[28] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
.
What kind of Proto Officer Uber l337 Swarms with 1000mts lock on range are you using?
Last time i Checked, once you hit a dropship once with swarm they fly away into the horizon to regenerate...
Or is it that you are just a crappy pilot? Dont be ashamed. I su*k too.
Playing as : Calscout + Amarr Assault
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
673
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:39:00 -
[29] - Quote
^^ This.
You think a pilot in a PC is only going to pull out 1 dropship?
"Sorry guys, got shot down once, gonna sit the rest of this one out."
said no pilot ever. As soon as it gets shot down, you call in another. And another. And another. Also having 15 other players in full proto to kill those AV' ers hep.
Also sidearms are moot point, when swarms are used on Commandos.
But, OP you have to face the music. Dropships got wrecked, and the CPM and CCP are very happy about where they are. When Rattati said Incubus are in a good place vs swarms because people use the Python in PC, thats when i gave up hope. Check the Development Discussion archives. So now, no matter what suit i'm in, whatever situation, i terminate swarms with extreme prejudice.
Except in my ADS, then i sort of have to fly away, then explode at about 420m away.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
149
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
. What kind of Proto Officer Uber l337 Swarms with 1000mts lock on range are you using?Last time i Checked, once you hit a dropship once with swarm they fly away into the horizon to regenerate... Or is it that you are just a crappy pilot? Dont be ashamed. I su*k too.
That was when afterburners were more effective, now you can't escape swarms like that
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
150
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:49:00 -
[31] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:You think a pilot in a PC is only going to pull out 1 dropship? "Sorry guys, got shot down once, gonna sit the rest of this one out." said no pilot ever. As soon as it gets shot down, you call in another. And another. And another. Also having 15 other players in full proto to kill those AV' ers hep. Also sidearms are moot point, when swarms are used on Commandos. But, OP you have to face the music. Dropships got wrecked, and the CPM and CCP are very happy about where they are. When Rattati said Incubus are in a good place vs swarms because people use the Python in PC, thats when i gave up hope. Check the Development Discussion archives. So now, no matter what suit i'm in, whatever situation, i terminate swarms with extreme prejudice. Except in my ADS, then i sort of have to fly away, then explode at about 420m away.
Yeah... looks like my derpships have to sit back and collect dust. Unless I need to take out some links on a rooftop, which is pretty much all they're good for atm
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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J0LLY R0G3R
And the ButtPirates
1550
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Posted - 2015.01.02 18:59:00 -
[32] - Quote
1 too many missiles up the tailpipe? XD
TLDR : Last Dust Montage
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2732
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:05:00 -
[33] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance.
If one swarmer could take out an ADS as easily as an ADS could take out a swarmer, 1 swarmer could easily take on a team of ADSs. The two are not equal, not by a long shot. Minutia like target acquisition, aiming, maneuvering, hitting targets, etc all favor swarms by a large degree.
To your previous point about range, swarms and forges have about the same effective range of 175-200m, anything beyond that the forge becomes a shot in the dark. I don't care who you are, you're not killing an ADS at +300m unless it's almost dead and standing still. It's like saying the small rail can effectively be used at +150m.
Dust is there! I was real!
Dear diary, Rattati senpai noticed me today~
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1439
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:15:00 -
[34] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. If one swarmer could take out an ADS as easily as an ADS could take out a swarmer, 1 swarmer could easily take on a team of ADSs. The two are not equal, not by a long shot. Minutia like target acquisition, aiming, maneuvering, hitting targets, etc all favor swarms by a large degree. To your previous point about range, swarms and forges have about the same effective range of 175-200m, anything beyond that the forge becomes a shot in the dark. I don't care who you are, you're not killing an ADS at +300m unless it's almost dead and standing still. It's like saying the small rail can effectively be used at +150m.
Which is exactly why OP is a gross exaggeration. A single swarmer cannot easily take down an ADS; if one could, the ADS wouldn't be such a common sight in PC. |
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
150
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:18:00 -
[35] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. If one swarmer could take out an ADS as easily as an ADS could take out a swarmer, 1 swarmer could easily take on a team of ADSs. The two are not equal, not by a long shot. Minutia like target acquisition, aiming, maneuvering, hitting targets, etc all favor swarms by a large degree. To your previous point about range, swarms and forges have about the same effective range of 175-200m, anything beyond that the forge becomes a shot in the dark. I don't care who you are, you're not killing an ADS at +300m unless it's almost dead and standing still. It's like saying the small rail can effectively be used at +150m.
When the ADS is being knocked around by swarms then it gets difficult to kill the swarmer, especially when there are lots of them.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
1439
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:20:00 -
[36] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:
When the ADS is being knocked around by swarms then it gets difficult to kill the swarmer, especially when there are lots of them.
If there are ever "lots of swarms" on the field, your ground forces should have little issue redlining your opposition. |
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
150
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:20:00 -
[37] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. If one swarmer could take out an ADS as easily as an ADS could take out a swarmer, 1 swarmer could easily take on a team of ADSs. The two are not equal, not by a long shot. Minutia like target acquisition, aiming, maneuvering, hitting targets, etc all favor swarms by a large degree. To your previous point about range, swarms and forges have about the same effective range of 175-200m, anything beyond that the forge becomes a shot in the dark. I don't care who you are, you're not killing an ADS at +300m unless it's almost dead and standing still. It's like saying the small rail can effectively be used at +150m. Which is exactly why the original post is a gross exaggeration. A single swarmer cannot easily take down an ADS; if one could, the ADS wouldn't be such a common sight in PC.
ADS are always going to be a common sight in PC, because nothing can fill the same role of an ADS.
Besides, most of the AV in PCs are forge guns because they can be used for objective overwatch as well as AV, swarms are rarely used in PC, which is why you only ever see an excess of ADS in PC
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Draden Brohiem
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
29
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:21:00 -
[38] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:A bunch of correct stuff. Just adding to this: swarms, quite literally, only target installations and vehicles. You saccing a potential anti-infantry weapon for a potent AV weapon. Even so, it should take a little more skill to take down dropships, tanks are in an alright place because they have so much HP, but ADS don't have that, all they had was their speed to get away from swarms, which made them usless because they were so far away from battle, now that the speed is gone they can't even do that.
Tanks aren't in a good place! Because of CCP trying to down ADS swarms have become impossible to avoid! They accelerate to catch ADS, but tanks don't have ADS speed?! Swarms bend corners, avoid buildings, and slide ride right across terrain elevation change. There is no flight ceiling for us to run to. The redline is a lifetime away when your being swarmed by the whole enemy team!
We have nowhere to hide, or take cover that is sufficient. Entering any city area is a death wish! I have a stockpile of cheap tanks built to help my team by dying fighting their enemies. I can lose 5 before the whole match is a loss economically. They're too weak to battle other tanks effectively, but will keep enemy tanks off our ground troops. Anything expensive gets shredded before you get a chance to take out enemy tanks by swarms built and improved to take out ADS' s.
CCP has failed to balance AV/Vehicle. There are too many variables, and they can't figure it out while they're being ddos attacked, balancing their OP weapon problem, and trying to get more aurum out of us. Balancing AV/Vehicle has taken a back burner to literally everything. |
Will Driver
Horizons' Edge
210
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:22:00 -
[39] - Quote
Your tears are music to my ears.
GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥
GÇò Albert Einstein
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Sir Snugglz
Red Star.
EoN.
1028
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:24:00 -
[40] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Swarm users don't have a weakness against infantry. They're useless against infantry. Sidearms don't really help that much. It was very common to lose six proto swarm fits trying to catch one ADS.
It sounds like your kills/deaths is probably pretty healthy. Because yes, playing aggressively should cause you to lose your ADS a few times in a match.
my issue isnt with swarms. It's with minmando swarmers. Swarms are powerful but ok. But if you add the bonuses from a minmando, its op. Originally a fully specced swarmer gets 25% lockon reduction, 15% per missile damage vs armor (4 missiles = 60%; i could be reading this wrong too though), and 15% reload speed. And I think that's fine.
But with the minmando you get an additional 25% reload speed (40% total) plus 10% GENERAL bonus damage (meaning the swarm does 10% BONUS damage to shields and 25% BONUS damage to armor... if its per missile then its a total of 100% dmg to armor which seems wrong.)
even if were to take the damage as volley instead of per missile, This pretty much sounds like a accelerated turret that shoots 4 missiles at a time and locks on to vehicles. I bet you if their was a turret version of this on my ADS everyone would be crying OP.
Secondly, you say "They're useless against infantry. " Which does not apply to Minmando's. I've seen too many minmando's in PC killing any infantry that gets close and then switching back to swarms and going after ADS in the city. Especially on catwalks.
-Pro AFKing LVL 5
-Luck is just one of my skills
-Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
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Sir Snugglz
Red Star.
EoN.
1029
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Posted - 2015.01.02 19:31:00 -
[41] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. If one swarmer could take out an ADS as easily as an ADS could take out a swarmer, 1 swarmer could easily take on a team of ADSs. The two are not equal, not by a long shot. Minutia like target acquisition, aiming, maneuvering, hitting targets, etc all favor swarms by a large degree. To your previous point about range, swarms and forges have about the same effective range of 175-200m, anything beyond that the forge becomes a shot in the dark. I don't care who you are, you're not killing an ADS at +300m unless it's almost dead and standing still. It's like saying the small rail can effectively be used at +150m. Which is exactly why the original post is a gross exaggeration. A single swarmer cannot easily take down an ADS; if one could, the ADS wouldn't be such a common sight in PC. ADS are always going to be a common sight in PC, because nothing can fill the same role of an ADS. Besides, most of the AV in PCs are forge guns because they can be used for objective overwatch as well as AV, swarms are rarely used in PC, which is why you only ever see an excess of ADS in PC
not sure what PC's you play, but i see more minmando swarmers than forges in every PC match
-Pro AFKing LVL 5
-Luck is just one of my skills
-Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
197
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:20:00 -
[42] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. Well when swarms are easy to get a hold of and skill into, but ADS take a load of SP to skill into, don't balance it. Things should only be balanced if it takes a similar amount of SP and isk to use each of them, which with swarms and ADS isn't the case
lets see
numbers based on how i have my DS/ ADS no modules turrets just ship SP to unlock
standard DS
vehicle command lv3 68,5k sp
drop ship operation lv3 273.5k sp
ADS
ADS lv1 37.5k sp
ADS lv4 410k sp which is my current level in ADS
so just to unlock the ship its
379,5k sp
with how i have my skills ive invested
789k sp
i am taking in to account that people complain about proto swarms which is the value i am going to put it
weaponry lv3 68.5k sp sp
light weapon operation lv3 136k sp
swarm launcher operation lv1 12,5k sp
swarm launcher operation lv5 621.5k sp (which are the ones i use the most )
so just to unlock the basic swarm its
217k sp
with how i have my skills its \
838ksp
im not the best pilot but the people who ride with me know the only time i do get shot down is when im being a dumb pilot hovering for too long, get jumped by AV(i also include tanks) , or hit a building oh or get rammed by a scrubby pilot
while i swarm (dual minmando) i find myself diyng to ground troops before i can even get to the DS/ADS. ( no i dont roof top camp dont like being sniper food). do i get the drop ship? sometimes but 70% of the time they just out fly the 2nd and 3rd volly most of the time its just the 3rd
im not saying that anything is OP or UP but i feel that av and DS are in a good place
The Little Girl with the HMG
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
197
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:29:00 -
[43] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. If one swarmer could take out an ADS as easily as an ADS could take out a swarmer, 1 swarmer could easily take on a team of ADSs. The two are not equal, not by a long shot. Minutia like target acquisition, aiming, maneuvering, hitting targets, etc all favor swarms by a large degree. To your previous point about range, swarms and forges have about the same effective range of 175-200m, anything beyond that the forge becomes a shot in the dark. I don't care who you are, you're not killing an ADS at +300m unless it's almost dead and standing still. It's like saying the small rail can effectively be used at +150m. When the ADS is being knocked around by swarms then it gets difficult to kill the swarmer, especially when there are lots of them.
so what you are saying is that you should not have use other team mates to kill said AVer? **** when i dont swarm and am on the ground if i see a blue tank or DS getting shot at i quickly run to get the Aver to take it out
The Little Girl with the HMG
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
197
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:32:00 -
[44] - Quote
Draden Brohiem wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:A bunch of correct stuff. Just adding to this: swarms, quite literally, only target installations and vehicles. You saccing a potential anti-infantry weapon for a potent AV weapon. Even so, it should take a little more skill to take down dropships, tanks are in an alright place because they have so much HP, but ADS don't have that, all they had was their speed to get away from swarms, which made them usless because they were so far away from battle, now that the speed is gone they can't even do that. Tanks aren't in a good place! Because of CCP trying to down ADS swarms have become impossible to avoid! They accelerate to catch ADS, but tanks don't have ADS speed?! Swarms bend corners, avoid buildings, and slide ride right across terrain elevation change. There is no flight ceiling for us to run to. The redline is a lifetime away when your being swarmed by the whole enemy team! We have nowhere to hide, or take cover that is sufficient. Entering any city area is a death wish! I have a stockpile of cheap tanks built to help my team by dying fighting their enemies. I can lose 5 before the whole match is a loss economically. They're too weak to battle other tanks effectively, but will keep enemy tanks off our ground troops. Anything expensive gets shredded before you get a chance to take out enemy tanks by swarms built and improved to take out ADS' s. CCP has failed to balance AV/Vehicle. There are too many variables, and they can't figure it out while they're being ddos attacked, balancing their OP weapon problem, and trying to get more aurum out of us. Balancing AV/Vehicle has taken a back burner to literally everything.
typical tanker QQ i use cheap builds and cant figure out why 4 swarmers are ripping me to shreds.
The Little Girl with the HMG
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1043
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:37:00 -
[45] - Quote
Dropship flares, with limited non resuppliable charges.
Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
150
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:38:00 -
[46] - Quote
Swarms can fulfill their primary role, which is to take out vehicles. There isn't much that can stop the swarmer from doing this, unless the driver/pilot is really good at what they do.
Meanwhile, ADS are stopped from doing their primary role by anyone with a swarm launcher, all that they have left to do is recall, take out rooftop links or just die
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:40:00 -
[47] - Quote
VikingKong iBUN wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
This part is only true if you're against a team that's ****. Against a good team you would be getting shot, making swarm launcher use slightly more difficult.
Swarm use more difficult? That's laughable
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1044
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:40:00 -
[48] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Swarms can fulfill their primary role, which is to take out vehicles. There isn't much that can stop the swarmer from doing this, unless the driver/pilot is really good at what they do.
Meanwhile, ADS are stopped from doing their primary role by anyone with a swarm launcher, all that they have left to do is recall, take out rooftop links or just die
Untrue, infantry is very capable of keeping a swarmer from doing their job. I kill enemy av all the time to alleviate pressure from blue pilots. You're suffering from poor ground suppport.
Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:41:00 -
[49] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Why so many dropships in PC?
Why so few swarms?
Because dropships are the most useful vehicle in PC right now.
If logi ships are reintroduced with a great mCRU skill at level 5, like a 3 second spawn, then every single corp will field one of those every single match.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Reign Omega
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
1044
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:42:00 -
[50] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Swarms can fulfill their primary role, which is to take out vehicles. There isn't much that can stop the swarmer from doing this, unless the driver/pilot is really good at what they do.
Meanwhile, ADS are stopped from doing their primary role by anyone with a swarm launcher, all that they have left to do is recall, take out rooftop links or just die Untrue, infantry is very capable of keeping a swarmer from doing their job. I kill enemy av all the time to alleviate pressure from blue pilots. You're suffering from poor ground suppport.
This is also a problem with team comms being so poor. A solo pilot has little to no way of alerting friendly trooops to threats on the ground that are preventing them from providing support in vehicles, and we all know how difficult it is to wait for blues to help out.
Mark a$$ tricks, and bags of dicks....
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:43:00 -
[51] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players. I cannot support your complaint.
"Avoid the swarms." Literally impossible
You've obviously never flown a dropship. It doesn't matter if it's MLT, STD or ADS, swarms pound the ever living hell out of dropships.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Forlorn Destrier
Incorruptibles
3146
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:43:00 -
[52] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:boba's fetta wrote:ads should get counter measures only if the ads actully explodes the instant you hit zero hp instead of allowing you to bail every goddam time cheating me of my hard earned kill.
good pilots are extreamly difficult to down and swarms are not as skill less as you claim. you need to know which targets you can take and when to fire.
oh dear the other team has 4 people who can make you run off.
oh no swarms are op because you always get hit by the first volley. shame it only takes 4 volleys to kill a **** fit ads.
you should actully try thosse op swarms and come back and tell us all how easy they are. I do have swarms to prototypes and I do use them, yes it's hard to take down really good pilots, but that's because they're really good pilots... And those 4 people that make ADS run off were more common before the nerf to ADS, now they're just 4 people who take out your expensive flying coffin without the pilots being able to do anything about it. If you're telling me to use swarms more often, how about you use ADS? see if you get anywhere without being chased down by lock on missiles that are impossible to avoid.
So it's hard to take down good pilots but no skill is required to take them down? You are contradicting yourself and have lost credibility in my eyes. You also sound very biased, which has also lost credibility in my eyes.
I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:45:00 -
[53] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Swarms have a very limited range compared to forge guns. They used to be entirely a non-threat, and no, that's never going back the way it was. Because dropships are still one of the hardest to kill things in the game thanks to the fact that only a couple weapons can even damage them.
It's called a rail tank. I can take out a Python in 2 shots and an Incubus in 3 if it has a plate; 2 shots if it's base HP.
No, it's not hard to take out an ADS.
And what non-threat are you talking about? They used to have an insane lock on range, which was insane. The lock on range nerf was a good thing.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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killian178
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
65
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:45:00 -
[54] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players. I cannot support your complaint.
Really? Std and ads, are done in 3-4 volleys, period
Every commando k.o, every weapon at adv or above. Don't give a damn bout my kdr, I will kill you.
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Forlorn Destrier
Incorruptibles
3146
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:46:00 -
[55] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players. I cannot support your complaint. "Avoid the swarms." Literally impossible You've obviously never flown a dropship. It doesn't matter if it's MLT, STD or ADS, swarms pound the ever living hell out of dropships.
I fly them quite often actually, and even though I only use Militia these days I would say I survive swarms as often as I lose a ship to them because I note where the swarms are coming from (e.g. I watch when other vehicles are getting shot) and avoid the area.
As for actually avoiding the swarm missiles themselves, which I think is what you thought I meant but didn't mean, this is also possible provided you are relatively close to structures to fly behind/around/under etc. Swarms don't have the turn radius they used to have - it's easy to "thread the needle" where they can't. Honestly.
I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:47:00 -
[56] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:A bunch of correct stuff. Just adding to this: swarms, quite literally, only target installations and vehicles. You saccing a potential anti-infantry weapon for a potent AV weapon. Even so, it should take a little more skill to take down dropships, tanks are in an alright place because they have so much HP, but ADS don't have that, all they had was their speed to get away from swarms, which made them usless because they were so far away from battle, now that the speed is gone they can't even do that.
lol you think tanks are in an alright place? If an armor tank gets fluxed then pounded by a level 5 Minmando with proficiency 5 and 3 damage mods, that's a completely dead tank if it's trying to speed away in a straight line.
Infantry is lazy and doesn't want to put any effort in to destroying vehicles.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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calvin b
Sinq Laison Gendarmes
Gallente Federation
2341
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:47:00 -
[57] - Quote
Why I cant say yes. Why because of Assault Dropships, they bombard you over and over and when you try and defend yourself they hit the burners and they are gone. This is such a cheap trick. I spend a lot of my time hunting DS for this reason. I cant stand some pilots and for me that has made me dislike vehicles as a whole. I went as far as skilling into tanks so I can hunt with a Rail tank to destroy tanks and DS alike. Pilots brought it on themselves for acting in such a way.
Can the other voices in other peoples minds hear my voices in my head????
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:48:00 -
[58] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Swarm users don't have a weakness against infantry. They're useless against infantry. Sidearms don't really help that much. It was very common to lose six proto swarm fits trying to catch one ADS.
It sounds like your kills/deaths is probably pretty healthy. Because yes, playing aggressively should cause you to lose your ADS a few times in a match.
It's called a commando. Do you even play Dust?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Forlorn Destrier
Incorruptibles
3146
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:49:00 -
[59] - Quote
killian178 wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players. I cannot support your complaint. Really? Std and ads, are done in 3-4 volleys, period
The added speed and HP allow for quicker egress from combat zones. You'll take damage, but you will be gone by the time the swarmer gets off 3-4 volleys if you are a good pilot.
I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:49:00 -
[60] - Quote
Yeeeuuuupppp wrote:Countermeasures = Flares or something that blocks the lock, but to balance it out, swarms range would have to be tweaked a bit
Range lock on buff? No, because that screws tanks and LAVs.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:50:00 -
[61] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Swamrs only usefulness is to work against vehicles. It can't do anything else other than that, so yeah it should exceed at its role to take out vehicles (and be widely use because you can use swarms on all dropsuits and you can only use the Forge Gun on a Heavy Basic Frame and Sentinel and PLCs are laughable against vehicles)
So do what I do when I go use my ADS, Don't hover over an area :D do strafe runs. It is more fun than hovering over a place anyways.
Strafe run means maybe 2 missiles, that's real useful. These aren't A-10 Warthogs.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:51:00 -
[62] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Sir Snugglz wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Why so many dropships in PC?
Why so few swarms? not true. I see atleast 3-4 minmando swarmers in every PC compared to the 2-3 derpships If you are correct, and OP is correct, then those 2-3 derpships wouldn't last very long, would they? Methinks one of you must be mistaken.
He's absolutely correct, I do PC with him all the time.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Forlorn Destrier
Incorruptibles
3146
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:54:00 -
[63] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Yeeeuuuupppp wrote:Countermeasures = Flares or something that blocks the lock, but to balance it out, swarms range would have to be tweaked a bit Range lock on buff? No, because that screws tanks and LAVs.
Agreed. I kill way more HAV's with swarms than I do DS. HAV's lack the speed necessary to get away, and the pilot has to be 15x better than the pilot of a DS for escape to happen. Best I can usually do with an ADS is to chase them away and I'm happy to accomplish that much.
I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
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killian178
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
65
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:01:00 -
[64] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players. I cannot support your complaint. "Avoid the swarms." Literally impossible You've obviously never flown a dropship. It doesn't matter if it's MLT, STD or ADS, swarms pound the ever living hell out of dropships. I fly them quite often actually, and even though I only use Militia these days I would say I survive swarms as often as I lose a ship to them because I note where the swarms are coming from (e.g. I watch when other vehicles are getting shot) and avoid the area. As for actually avoiding the swarm missiles themselves, which I think is what you thought I meant but didn't mean, this is also possible provided you are relatively close to structures to fly behind/around/under etc. Swarms don't have the turn radius they used to have - it's easy to "thread the needle" where they can't. Honestly.
Swarms dont lock onto their target (dropships anyway), they follow there flight path, i dont know how many times ive tucked right behind a building, to have the swarms swing around it to hit me
Every commando k.o, every weapon at adv or above. Don't give a damn bout my kdr, I will kill you.
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
439
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:01:00 -
[65] - Quote
I see players on the enemy team give up their match to hunt me. They get their swarms & forges & do nothing for the team. This happens frequently. Of course, Mostly they don't get me cause I'm not a moron so it just ends up as a stalemate -- But they sacrifice a whole squad to do it. Also, They're not doing that because its halfway through the match & I'm causing issues. They start the match with that stuff.
I put my Python & Incubus up in the hangar mostly now, Just cause its frustrating running into the same deal almost every pub.
Also, Swarms are frequently used in PC.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:04:00 -
[66] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance.
There's no balance now. Tanks and ADS are glass, while AV is the cannon.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
153
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:06:00 -
[67] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players. I cannot support your complaint. "Avoid the swarms." Literally impossible You've obviously never flown a dropship. It doesn't matter if it's MLT, STD or ADS, swarms pound the ever living hell out of dropships. I fly them quite often actually, and even though I only use Militia these days I would say I survive swarms as often as I lose a ship to them because I note where the swarms are coming from (e.g. I watch when other vehicles are getting shot) and avoid the area. As for actually avoiding the swarm missiles themselves, which I think is what you thought I meant but didn't mean, this is also possible provided you are relatively close to structures to fly behind/around/under etc. Swarms don't have the turn radius they used to have - it's easy to "thread the needle" where they can't. Honestly.
There a reason your militia DS doesn't get shot down all the time, and thats because noone cares about militia DSs
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Forlorn Destrier
Incorruptibles
3146
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:06:00 -
[68] - Quote
killian178 wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players. I cannot support your complaint. "Avoid the swarms." Literally impossible You've obviously never flown a dropship. It doesn't matter if it's MLT, STD or ADS, swarms pound the ever living hell out of dropships. I fly them quite often actually, and even though I only use Militia these days I would say I survive swarms as often as I lose a ship to them because I note where the swarms are coming from (e.g. I watch when other vehicles are getting shot) and avoid the area. As for actually avoiding the swarm missiles themselves, which I think is what you thought I meant but didn't mean, this is also possible provided you are relatively close to structures to fly behind/around/under etc. Swarms don't have the turn radius they used to have - it's easy to "thread the needle" where they can't. Honestly. Swarms dont lock onto their target (dropships anyway), they follow there flight path, i dont know how many times ive tucked right behind a building, to have the swarms swing around it to hit me
Not exactly true. If there were true, then when I fire them they wouldn't take the direct path, and then angle toward them and hit a tower. Watch the path yourself - fire a few. You'll see what I mean.
I am the Forgotten Warhorse, the Lord of Lightning
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:08:00 -
[69] - Quote
boba's fetta wrote:ads should get counter measures only if the ads actully explodes the instant you hit zero hp instead of allowing you to bail every goddam time cheating me of my hard earned kill.
good pilots are extreamly difficult to down and swarms are not as skill less as you claim. you need to know which targets you can take and when to fire.
oh dear the other team has 4 people who can make you run off.
oh no swarms are op because you always get hit by the first volley. shame it only takes 4 volleys to kill a **** fit ads.
you should actully try thosse op swarms and come back and tell us all how easy they are.
lol this coming from a guy that obviously doesn't fly.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
153
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:08:00 -
[70] - Quote
calvin b wrote:Why I cant say yes. Why because of Assault Dropships, they bombard you over and over and when you try and defend yourself they hit the burners and they are gone. This is such a cheap trick. I spend a lot of my time hunting DS for this reason. I cant stand some pilots and for me that has made me dislike vehicles as a whole. I went as far as skilling into tanks so I can hunt with a Rail tank to destroy tanks and DS alike. Pilots brought it on themselves for acting in such a way.
ADS can't afterburn away anymore, afterburners were nerfed massively along with the swarm speed, which means that they can't escape swarms at all
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:12:00 -
[71] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
. What kind of Proto Officer Uber l337 Swarms with 1000mts lock on range are you using?Last time i Checked, once you hit a dropship once with swarm they fly away into the horizon to regenerate... Or is it that you are just a crappy pilot? Dont be ashamed. I su*k too.
The third volley is guaranteed to hit. Stop talking about how difficult it is to destroy vehicles.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
439
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:15:00 -
[72] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. Well when swarms are easy to get a hold of and skill into, but ADS take a load of SP to skill into, don't balance it. Things should only be balanced if it takes a similar amount of SP and isk to use each of them, which with swarms and ADS isn't the case lets see numbers based on how i have my DS/ ADS no modules turrets just ship SP to unlock standard DS vehicle command lv3 68,5k sp drop ship operation lv3 273.5k sp ADS ADS lv1 37.5k sp ADS lv4 410k sp which is my current level in ADS so just to unlock the ship its 379,5k sp with how i have my skills ive invested 789k sp i am taking in to account that people complain about proto swarms which is the value i am going to put it weaponry lv3 68.5k sp sp light weapon operation lv3 136k sp swarm launcher operation lv1 12,5k sp swarm launcher operation lv5 621.5k sp (which are the ones i use the most ) so just to unlock the basic swarm its 217k sp with how i have my skills its \ 838ksp im not the best pilot but the people who ride with me know the only time i do get shot down is when im being a dumb pilot hovering for too long, get jumped by AV(i also include tanks) , or hit a building oh or get rammed by a scrubby pilot while i swarm (dual minmando) i find myself diyng to ground troops before i can even get to the DS/ADS. ( no i dont roof top camp dont like being sniper food). do i get the drop ship? sometimes but 70% of the time they just out fly the 2nd and 3rd volly most of the time its just the 3rd im not saying that anything is OP or UP but i feel that av and DS are in a good place
You're sh!tting me right?
Don't forget Shield Operation, Shield optimization, Small Turret Operation., Small Missiles, Small missile Optimization., Getting your Assault Dropships book to 3-5 & Caldari Assault Dropship to 3-5. This is what you need in order to make a competitive ADS.
This is also minus the tweaks of Small Missile Reload, Ammo Vehicle Core Crid & Engine Core & Electronics.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
545
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:24:00 -
[73] - Quote
In my opinion opinion, as long as ADS exists, AV vs Vehicles will never be balanced.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:28:00 -
[74] - Quote
Will Driver wrote:Your tears are music to my ears.
You wouldn't be saying that if you were in the air. You've obviously never flown a dropship, nor do you know what it's like to lose 300k - 450k ISK in one death.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:35:00 -
[75] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Swarm users don't have a weakness against infantry. They're useless against infantry. Sidearms don't really help that much. It was very common to lose six proto swarm fits trying to catch one ADS.
It sounds like your kills/deaths is probably pretty healthy. Because yes, playing aggressively should cause you to lose your ADS a few times in a match. my issue isnt with swarms. It's with minmando swarmers. Swarms are powerful but ok. But if you add the bonuses from a minmando, its op. Originally a fully specced swarmer gets 25% lockon reduction, 15% per missile damage vs armor (4 missiles = 60%; i could be reading this wrong too though), and 15% reload speed. And I think that's fine. But with the minmando you get an additional 25% reload speed (40% total) plus 10% GENERAL bonus damage (meaning the swarm does 10% BONUS damage to shields and 25% BONUS damage to armor... if its per missile then its a total of 100% dmg to armor which seems wrong.) even if were to take the damage as volley instead of per missile, This pretty much sounds like a accelerated turret that shoots 4 missiles at a time and locks on to vehicles. I bet you if their was a turret version of this on my ADS everyone would be crying OP. Secondly, you say "They're useless against infantry. " Which does not apply to Minmando's. I've seen too many minmando's in PC killing any infantry that gets close and then switching back to swarms and going after ADS in the city. Especially on catwalks.
The one we were in maybe early this week, when they had like 4 or 5 guys at our HP, just one guy in a Minmando with swarms nearly destroyed my tank in 3 volleys. Got me to about 600 armor.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Soraya Xel
Abandoned Privilege
Top Men.
5191
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:36:00 -
[76] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Will Driver wrote:Your tears are music to my ears. You wouldn't be saying that if you were in the air. You've obviously never flown a dropship, nor do you know what it's like to lose 300k - 450k ISK in one death.
Your tears are, in fact, some of the sweetest notes I have ever heard.
CPM1 Elect. Thanks for all your support. [email protected] for ideas, thoughts, and feedback.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:37:00 -
[77] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:
not sure what PC's you play, but i see more minmando swarmers than forges in every PC match
He probably doesn't do PC. I bet it's too hard.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:40:00 -
[78] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. Well when swarms are easy to get a hold of and skill into, but ADS take a load of SP to skill into, don't balance it. Things should only be balanced if it takes a similar amount of SP and isk to use each of them, which with swarms and ADS isn't the case lets see numbers based on how i have my DS/ ADS no modules turrets just ship SP to unlock standard DS vehicle command lv3 68,5k sp drop ship operation lv3 273.5k sp ADS ADS lv1 37.5k sp ADS lv4 410k sp which is my current level in ADS so just to unlock the ship its 379,5k sp with how i have my skills ive invested 789k sp i am taking in to account that people complain about proto swarms which is the value i am going to put it weaponry lv3 68.5k sp sp light weapon operation lv3 136k sp swarm launcher operation lv1 12,5k sp swarm launcher operation lv5 621.5k sp (which are the ones i use the most ) so just to unlock the basic swarm its 217k sp with how i have my skills its \ 838ksp im not the best pilot but the people who ride with me know the only time i do get shot down is when im being a dumb pilot hovering for too long, get jumped by AV(i also include tanks) , or hit a building oh or get rammed by a scrubby pilot while i swarm (dual minmando) i find myself diyng to ground troops before i can even get to the DS/ADS. ( no i dont roof top camp dont like being sniper food). do i get the drop ship? sometimes but 70% of the time they just out fly the 2nd and 3rd volly most of the time its just the 3rd im not saying that anything is OP or UP but i feel that av and DS are in a good place
You, a "vehicles are OP" person, have the ADS? This I have to see to believe.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:41:00 -
[79] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Dropship flares, with limited non resuppliable charges.
Wait, you mean to tell me you wouldn't be able to resupply them at a depot?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
155
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:41:00 -
[80] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Sir Snugglz wrote:
not sure what PC's you play, but i see more minmando swarmers than forges in every PC match
He probably doesn't do PC. I bet it's too hard.
I do PC, but only in the noob leagues, where minmandos are rarely seen
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:47:00 -
[81] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:I fly them quite often actually, and even though I only use Militia these days I would say I survive swarms as often as I lose a ship to them because I note where the swarms are coming from (e.g. I watch when other vehicles are getting shot) and avoid the area.
There's still the problem of invisible swarms along with non-working hit markers, so no, it's not always possible to tell where you're getting hit from. And only using MLT? You likely get shot down more often than you're letting on.
As for actually avoiding the swarm missiles themselves, which I think is what you thought I meant but didn't mean, this is also possible provided you are relatively close to structures to fly behind/around/under etc. Swarms don't have the turn radius they used to have - it's easy to "thread the needle" where they can't. Honestly.
No, it's still difficult to avoid swarms, because when I'm in a tank, they go around two corners, and skim the ground when I'm going down a slope. It's the same when I'm flying a Grimsnes. Since it's slow, all 3 volleys hit, sometimes a 4th if it's a commando carrying a pair of swarms. If it's a pair of people with PRO and 2 damage mods, I'm likely going down, because that's 6 volleys hitting within 4 seconds of each other.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:49:00 -
[82] - Quote
calvin b wrote: I cant stand some pilots and for me that has made me dislike vehicles as a whole.
So because some pilots are so good, a few people made you hate vehicles?
I went as far as skilling into tanks so I can hunt with a Rail tank to destroy tanks and DS alike. Pilots brought it on themselves for acting in such a way.
So you're essentially new to tanking. Good luck against my blaster.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:21:00 -
[83] - Quote
Quasar Storm wrote:Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. Well when swarms are easy to get a hold of and skill into, but ADS take a load of SP to skill into, don't balance it. Things should only be balanced if it takes a similar amount of SP and isk to use each of them, which with swarms and ADS isn't the case lets see numbers based on how i have my DS/ ADS no modules turrets just ship SP to unlock standard DS vehicle command lv3 68,5k sp drop ship operation lv3 273.5k sp ADS ADS lv1 37.5k sp ADS lv4 410k sp which is my current level in ADS so just to unlock the ship its 379,5k sp with how i have my skills ive invested 789k sp i am taking in to account that people complain about proto swarms which is the value i am going to put it weaponry lv3 68.5k sp sp light weapon operation lv3 136k sp swarm launcher operation lv1 12,5k sp swarm launcher operation lv5 621.5k sp (which are the ones i use the most ) so just to unlock the basic swarm its 217k sp with how i have my skills its \ 838ksp im not the best pilot but the people who ride with me know the only time i do get shot down is when im being a dumb pilot hovering for too long, get jumped by AV(i also include tanks) , or hit a building oh or get rammed by a scrubby pilot while i swarm (dual minmando) i find myself diyng to ground troops before i can even get to the DS/ADS. ( no i dont roof top camp dont like being sniper food). do i get the drop ship? sometimes but 70% of the time they just out fly the 2nd and 3rd volly most of the time its just the 3rd im not saying that anything is OP or UP but i feel that av and DS are in a good place You're sh!tting me right? Don't forget Shield Operation, Shield optimization, Small Turret Operation., Small Missiles, Small missile Optimization., Getting your Assault Dropships book to 3-5 & Caldari Assault Dropship to 3-5. This is what you need in order to make a competitive ADS. This is also minus the tweaks of Small Missile Reload, Ammo Vehicle Core Crid & Engine Core & Electronics.
All it takes to make a great forge fit is Caldari basic heavy frame at level 1 I believe, for the 3 high slots, forge operation to 5, and proficiency to 5. We could ignore the reload and ammo, plus the fitting proficiency, because all we're looking for here is damage. That's less than 2mil SP. Meanwhile for an ADS, you're looking at around 12mil SP.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Tesfa Alem
Death by Disassociation
674
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:25:00 -
[84] - Quote
Can we please stop with this victim complex?
Some of these infantry guys will cry about anything. And i do mean anything.
Soraya Xel, what has changed from hotfix delta to improve your swarm fit survivability on the ground? Presumably you should lose just as many swarm fits then as now, because you never soaked the forums in salty tears about dropships killing your swarm fit, but infantry.
To calvin B and the others that hate derpships with a passion, of course man, as long as they are red, they are the first thing i go for. There is no truce of the sky, and i will put about 360,000 of my isk, and trust in my own shaky skills as a pilot to kill anything that flies. Still, hating something does not make it OP. Swarms are still easy mode, in this you must learn to get over yourself.
To the pilots yeah we've been delt a crappy hand, and i have no faith in it ever being made right. Still, at the end of the day, it will make you better, and wiser pilots. Don't stop bringing you ideas to improve things, but we can't keep repeating our anecdotal stories, no matter how true they are.
Redline for Thee, but no Redline for Me.
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:26:00 -
[85] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:In my opinion opinion, as long as ADS exists, AV vs Vehicles will never be balanced.
So CCP should remove the ADS to achieve balance? Is that what you're saying?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:27:00 -
[86] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Will Driver wrote:Your tears are music to my ears. You wouldn't be saying that if you were in the air. You've obviously never flown a dropship, nor do you know what it's like to lose 300k - 450k ISK in one death. Your tears are, in fact, some of the sweetest notes I have ever heard. Wow, a member of the CPM saying that, real mature. When do you graduate high school?Spkr4theDead wrote:The one we were in maybe early this week, when they had like 4 or 5 guys at our HP, just one guy in a Minmando with swarms nearly destroyed my tank in 3 volleys. Got me to about 600 armor. Nearly? You're crying about being "nearly" destroyed now? Do you even tank? Do you know what it's like to get absolutely hammered by one person? No? Then kinda strap yourself into a Soma to try it out.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:28:00 -
[87] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Sir Snugglz wrote:
not sure what PC's you play, but i see more minmando swarmers than forges in every PC match
He probably doesn't do PC. I bet it's too hard. I do PC, but only in the noob leagues, where minmandos are rarely seen
What noob leagues? Everybody goes hard in PC all the time.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
3287
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:30:00 -
[88] - Quote
As the worst ADS pilot in the game, I have no trouble avoiding swarms. You just turn on your speed and go up to where they can't target you, and you're fine.
My only issue is knock back from the swarms, which pisses me off.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
545
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Posted - 2015.01.03 00:11:00 -
[89] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:In my opinion opinion, as long as ADS exists, AV vs Vehicles will never be balanced. So CCP should remove the ADs to achive balance that what you're saying?
Yes.
They are not Gunships, so using an ADS as a gunship to hover over an area and kill will get you killed and they are not jets to do some strafing runs effectively or dogfight.
Only reason they came to existance was because DS pilots wanted a turret for themselves to shoot and to "hold" off the urges to any of us who wanted to fly jets like myself.
You people should also know that vehicles only have STD hulls. No proto hull. As for AV, they have Proto AV weapons.
Which of course, should shred an STD hull.
Have you tried using an STD swarm against vehicles?
Av vs Vehicles is fine as of now for what we have. We just need a good Anti-shield AV and done.
After (and if ever) ADV and PROTO hulls ever come, then and truly then the real discussion of AV vs Vehicle will start.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
545
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 00:17:00 -
[90] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:As the worst ADS pilot in the game, I have no trouble avoiding swarms. You just turn on your speed and go up to where they can't target you, and you're fine.
My only issue is knock back from the swarms, which pisses me off.
If you know where to fly and when to fly, you are not a horrible pilot.
Now if you are talking about maneuvers and 1v1 ADS fights, don't worry about it.
Now, I still see many ADS pilots just trying to dig themselves were they blob of enemies are at. And then wine when a swarm locks onto them.
Changes to Damage mods!
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TEBOW BAGGINS
GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING
1459
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 00:20:00 -
[91] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat? and then receive gloat mail about it
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous.
fixed
AKA Zirzo Valcyn
AFKing since 2012
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killian178
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
66
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 00:24:00 -
[92] - Quote
Swarms dont lock onto their target (dropships anyway), they follow there flight path(to clerify, after a certain point), i dont know how many times ive tucked right behind a building, to have the swarms swing around it to hit me
[/quote]
Not exactly true. If there were true, then when I fire them they wouldn't take the direct path, and then angle toward them and hit a tower. Watch the path yourself - fire a few. You'll see what I mean.[/quote]
Prof 5 in swarms, and mk.o commando, and lvl 5 python, lvl 5 sml msl turrets. I do know. Once the swarms are at least 70% of their flight time (my estimate), they will connect, no matter what, in my experience anyway.
Example:
Once i determine strafing runs are more viable than hover fire, i ascend, bank and turn, starting my decent. After firing 2-3shoots at my target, i quickly spin the ads on axis so my momentum caries me in a continuous line, but im still facing the target as i pass, continuing to fire.
Now if you know your maps, reverse flying isnt that hard, and you can easliy maneuver your ship right behind a tower/building. I do this consistently among other useful tricks to keep my baby in the air longer. But there are times, (70% thing from above) that ive SEEN the missle change trajectory, follow where my ds flew, and smack the side of me.
I also know that it happens, because ive seen MY missles do ft he exact same thing, especially when single objective in the city maps.
Sitting in a nice walkway or roof top, popping ds's and tanks. IF i can time my first volley, reload and get the next 2 out while they investigate\shoot at me the afterburner away. Leaving me to fire the third and watch as it chases him round that tower he thinks his aftwrburner got him behind.
nope, sorry :)
Im not complaing ether way, but the swarm vs DS is very efficient!
Every commando k.o, every weapon at adv or above. Don't give a damn bout my kdr, I will kill you.
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TEBOW BAGGINS
GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING
1459
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Posted - 2015.01.03 00:34:00 -
[93] - Quote
yea for the swarms to zig zag the way they do around a city complex is total fuking bullsht.. he failed to code the swarms OP tracking back down to chromosone's level where then we could evade them behind a building instead of now they make three 90 degree turns around the building into DS.. he failed at following through on his statement of "good pilots will be able to evade the nerfed tracking of swarms".. i have no problem with swarms damage it's the clipping through walls and their ability to make 180 degree turns that's fuctup because he said they would be recoded to not make even a 90 degree turn.
AKA Zirzo Valcyn
AFKing since 2012
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shaman oga
Dead Man's Game
3554
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 00:37:00 -
[94] - Quote
The problem i see is range, once you release the swarm it will chase the DS for silly distances.
Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
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Clone Pilot
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
131
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 01:33:00 -
[95] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance.
No. **** that. The most expensive fit you can make is under 350k ISK for infantry. The most expensive tank fit or dropship fit you can make is well over 750K |
Zindorak
Nyain Chan
General Tso's Alliance
1498
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 01:34:00 -
[96] - Quote
Braindead weapon is Braindead 
Pokemon master and Tekken Lord
Give me da iskiez
Gk0 Scout yay :)
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
197
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 04:56:00 -
[97] - Quote
Quasar Storm wrote:Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. Well when swarms are easy to get a hold of and skill into, but ADS take a load of SP to skill into, don't balance it. Things should only be balanced if it takes a similar amount of SP and isk to use each of them, which with swarms and ADS isn't the case lets see numbers based on how i have my DS/ ADS no modules turrets just ship SP to unlock standard DS vehicle command lv3 68,5k sp drop ship operation lv3 273.5k sp ADS ADS lv1 37.5k sp ADS lv4 410k sp which is my current level in ADS so just to unlock the ship its 379,5k sp with how i have my skills ive invested 789k sp i am taking in to account that people complain about proto swarms which is the value i am going to put it weaponry lv3 68.5k sp sp light weapon operation lv3 136k sp swarm launcher operation lv1 12,5k sp swarm launcher operation lv5 621.5k sp (which are the ones i use the most ) so just to unlock the basic swarm its 217k sp with how i have my skills its \ 838ksp im not the best pilot but the people who ride with me know the only time i do get shot down is when im being a dumb pilot hovering for too long, get jumped by AV(i also include tanks) , or hit a building oh or get rammed by a scrubby pilot while i swarm (dual minmando) i find myself diyng to ground troops before i can even get to the DS/ADS. ( no i dont roof top camp dont like being sniper food). do i get the drop ship? sometimes but 70% of the time they just out fly the 2nd and 3rd volly most of the time its just the 3rd im not saying that anything is OP or UP but i feel that av and DS are in a good place You're sh!tting me right? Don't forget Shield Operation, Shield optimization, Small Turret Operation., Small Missiles, Small missile Optimization., Getting your Assault Dropships book to 3-5 & Caldari Assault Dropship to 3-5. This is what you need in order to make a competitive ADS. This is also minus the tweaks of Small Missile Reload, Ammo Vehicle Core Crid & Engine Core & Electronics.
then dont forget the suit, the suit modules, the core suit skills, weapon skills damage mod skills.
like i said the way i have my DS ADS set up at thoes levels i do fine i get shot down for hovering too long getting jumped by AV or just having a bad pilot day. i dont need to have my cal ads to level 5 all it does is increase rof which wont help with how bad the rof is and small missile operation isnt useful with how little PG CPU you gain back from it say what you want but like sir dukey said
"
If that one person is smart he should be able to keep tank at bay but not destroy it unless tank has stupid driver."
The Little Girl with the HMG
Sir Dukey once said
If that one person is smart he should be able to keep tank at bay bu
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Draden Brohiem
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
29
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Posted - 2015.01.03 05:39:00 -
[98] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Draden Brohiem wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:A bunch of correct stuff. Just adding to this: swarms, quite literally, only target installations and vehicles. You saccing a potential anti-infantry weapon for a potent AV weapon. Even so, it should take a little more skill to take down dropships, tanks are in an alright place because they have so much HP, but ADS don't have that, all they had was their speed to get away from swarms, which made them usless because they were so far away from battle, now that the speed is gone they can't even do that. Tanks aren't in a good place! Because of CCP trying to down ADS swarms have become impossible to avoid! They accelerate to catch ADS, but tanks don't have ADS speed?! Swarms bend corners, avoid buildings, and slide ride right across terrain elevation change. There is no flight ceiling for us to run to. The redline is a lifetime away when your being swarmed by the whole enemy team! We have nowhere to hide, or take cover that is sufficient. Entering any city area is a death wish! I have a stockpile of cheap tanks built to help my team by dying fighting their enemies. I can lose 5 before the whole match is a loss economically. They're too weak to battle other tanks effectively, but will keep enemy tanks off our ground troops. Anything expensive gets shredded before you get a chance to take out enemy tanks by swarms built and improved to take out ADS' s. CCP has failed to balance AV/Vehicle. There are too many variables, and they can't figure it out while they're being ddos attacked, balancing their OP weapon problem, and trying to get more aurum out of us. Balancing AV/Vehicle has taken a back burner to literally everything. typical tanker QQ i use cheap builds and cant figure out why 4 swarmers are ripping me to shreds.
You missed the point. I have 19 mil in tanks so I can fit whatever the h*ll I like on any tank available. Alas, unlike YOU I'm no roof camping scrub. I'm also no fool either. If the boys say they need back up on a point what better back up than a huge distraction with a blaster turret? However, in order to make a positive isk profit, since I don't rob my corp mates for isk, I need to keep the suicide tank as cheap as possible. I've taken on better tanks in them, and won some of those matches. Don't know if you've noticed, but sicas can kill madrugers and gunnlogis.
The more I kill with cheap tanks, the more I make on the back end. Not pulling out 500k worth of tank so some loser whose been on a roof the whole match can feel good about himself. It's no QQ when you've went the extra step to do what's best for you, and your team. Most tankers hide in the redline with all that pricey tank doing what? I get down there where I'm actually a help to my team. If I get taken out by the likes of you, but the dropship drops off 6 mercs on bravo then mission accomplished! All you did was kill a sica. We won the match! |
Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
RISE of LEGION
13
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Posted - 2015.01.03 06:57:00 -
[99] - Quote
The only problem i have with swarms is it's a sure 75 damage wp at advanced, and w/o them rendering unless you are facing the direction of the swarmer. That's simply unfair because one can't hear them, one can't see them; but, one must feel them.
Honestly, that alone makes swarms overpowered. A ghostly 800+ damage weapon that you cannot see, hear, or avoid (the swarms just follow the dropship's path over time and the wider turning circle w/o inertia improves the swarms slightly [e.g: they fly around the building]) w/o boosting to full throttle.
I don't even need to engage someone (a fly by) and i magically see damage appear. I did'nt see, or hear anything. For all i know 2 more volleys might be on their way.
Come on people... Forget who vs what and actually fix some ISSUES that cause the problem. Can't we agree on that? |
Draden Brohiem
D3ATH CARD
RUST415
29
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 10:26:00 -
[100] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:The only problem i have with swarms is it's a sure 75 damage wp at advanced, and w/o them rendering unless you are facing the direction of the swarmer. That's simply unfair because one can't hear them, one can't see them; but, one must feel them.
Honestly, that alone makes swarms overpowered. A ghostly 800+ damage weapon that you cannot see, hear, or avoid (the swarms just follow the dropship's path over time and the wider turning circle w/o inertia improves the swarms slightly [e.g: they fly around the building]) w/o boosting to full throttle.
I don't even need to engage someone (a fly by) and i magically see damage appear. I did'nt see, or hear anything. For all i know 2 more volleys might be on their way.
Come on people... Forget who vs what and actually fix some ISSUES that cause the problem. Can't we agree on that?
All they see is the points. They don't care if it's fair. They don't care that there is no escape. They getting kills they couldn't get against players on foot by camping on a roof top. Atleast forge gunners and PLC have to aim. I railgun dropships down all the time, but I have to at least aim. Imagine if my missile turrets were lock-on turrets? Wouldn't that be F'd up!
I don't think swarms need a nerf, but the double nerf should've never happened. At the current strength, speed, and effectiveness of swarms you could put tanks and ADS back the way they were. We'd still get creamed by AV, but atleast we'd have a chance. |
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neausea 1987
1.U.P
236
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Posted - 2015.01.03 11:53:00 -
[101] - Quote
sounds to me like a butthurt thread. i know some real badass dropship pilots and if it were'nt for swarms they would easily get 30+ kills a game. swarms are there to keep y'all air jockeys in check, if you dont like it fight on the ground, its about balance not total derp domination, hell i dont even use em' i use the plc ang forge but more often then not you need a swarm.
SELF PROCLAIMED LORD OF THE DANCE AND MASTER OF THE FLANK AND SPANK (no cloak required) i strive or perfection.
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
157
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 15:20:00 -
[102] - Quote
neausea 1987 wrote:sounds to me like a butthurt thread. i know some real badass dropship pilots and if it were'nt for swarms they would easily get 30+ kills a game. swarms are there to keep y'all air jockeys in check, if you dont like it fight on the ground, its about balance not total derp domination, hell i dont even use em' i use the plc ang forge but more often then not you need a swarm.
Yeah, pilots that could get 30+ kills a game...
Funnily enough, a lot of those pilots could probably get 30+ kills on foot, without having the handicap of OP swarms, why should it be possible for most fits to get 30+ kills but not ADS.
And for the argument of 'there are adv and pro swarms but only std vehicles, so the swarms should be much more powerful', this shouldn't be the case. If there are no adv or pro vehicles, then AV should be balanced around the STD vehicles. How would AV players like it if the only AV weapons were the STD variants, but there were adv and pro vehicles?
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Buwaro Draemon
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
565
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 17:49:00 -
[103] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:neausea 1987 wrote:sounds to me like a butthurt thread. i know some real badass dropship pilots and if it were'nt for swarms they would easily get 30+ kills a game. swarms are there to keep y'all air jockeys in check, if you dont like it fight on the ground, its about balance not total derp domination, hell i dont even use em' i use the plc ang forge but more often then not you need a swarm. Yeah, pilots that could get 30+ kills a game... Funnily enough, a lot of those pilots could probably get 30+ kills on foot, without having the handicap of OP swarms, why should it be possible for most fits to get 30+ kills but not ADS. And for the argument of 'there are adv and pro swarms but only std vehicles, so the swarms should be much more powerful', this shouldn't be the case. If there are no adv or pro vehicles, then AV should be balanced around the STD vehicles. How would AV players like it if the only AV weapons were the STD variants, but there were adv and pro vehicles?
They are balanced around the STD hulls.
Changes to Damage mods!
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Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
157
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Posted - 2015.01.03 18:07:00 -
[104] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:neausea 1987 wrote:sounds to me like a butthurt thread. i know some real badass dropship pilots and if it were'nt for swarms they would easily get 30+ kills a game. swarms are there to keep y'all air jockeys in check, if you dont like it fight on the ground, its about balance not total derp domination, hell i dont even use em' i use the plc ang forge but more often then not you need a swarm. Yeah, pilots that could get 30+ kills a game... Funnily enough, a lot of those pilots could probably get 30+ kills on foot, without having the handicap of OP swarms, why should it be possible for most fits to get 30+ kills but not ADS. And for the argument of 'there are adv and pro swarms but only std vehicles, so the swarms should be much more powerful', this shouldn't be the case. If there are no adv or pro vehicles, then AV should be balanced around the STD vehicles. How would AV players like it if the only AV weapons were the STD variants, but there were adv and pro vehicles? They are balanced around the STD hulls.
Thats not what I heard, various different people told me that they were balanced around STD, ADV and PRO vehicles
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Jay Westen
Sky-FIRE
144
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 18:33:00 -
[105] - Quote
I fly dropships, while swarms are annoying but that's it. Fit some survivability to your ds, and run when your modules are down. An armor plate will keep your ds from freaking out when you get hit by a swarm, a shield booster will help regeneration quicker, an afterburner will help you get away.
If you're so fixated on flying, then fly a regular dropship and support your team with scans and mobile cru. It's not always about killing.
Mine runs about 130k a ship, I'd be interested to see the isk lost for infantry vs a dropship.
I lose usually one dropship a match on average but this is mostly because of bad flying. |
Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
199
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 18:44:00 -
[106] - Quote
Draden Brohiem wrote:Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:
typical tanker QQ i use cheap builds and cant figure out why 4 swarmers are ripping me to shreds.
You missed the point. I have 19 mil in tanks so I can fit whatever the h*ll I like on any tank available. Alas, unlike YOU I'm no roof camping scrub. I'm also no fool either. If the boys say they need back up on a point what better back up than a huge distraction with a blaster turret? However, in order to make a positive isk profit, since I don't rob my corp mates for isk, I need to keep the suicide tank as cheap as possible. I've taken on better tanks in them, and won some of those matches. Don't know if you've noticed, but sicas can kill madrugers and gunnlogis. The more I kill with cheap tanks, the more I make on the back end. Not pulling out 500k worth of tank so some loser whose been on a roof the whole match can feel good about himself. It's no QQ when you've went the extra step to do what's best for you, and your team. Most tankers hide in the redline with all that pricey tank doing what? I get down there where I'm actually a help to my team. If I get taken out by the likes of you, but the dropship drops off 6 mercs on bravo then mission accomplished! All you did was kill a sica. We won the match!
first off i dont roof camp if i see my own team camp roof tops i get into my drop ship and scrape them off. second read the second part of my sig even though it says tankers i think it also applies to pilots as well
If that one person is smart he should be able to keep tank at bay but not destroy it unless tank has stupid driver.
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killian178
Random Gunz
RISE of LEGION
66
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 18:52:00 -
[107] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:The only problem i have with swarms is it's a sure 75 damage wp at advanced, and w/o them rendering unless you are facing the direction of the swarmer. That's simply unfair because one can't hear them, one can't see them; but, one must feel them.
Honestly, that alone makes swarms overpowered. A ghostly 800+ damage weapon that you cannot see, hear, or avoid (the swarms just follow the dropship's path over time and the wider turning circle w/o inertia improves the swarms slightly [e.g: they fly around the building]) w/o boosting to full throttle.
I don't even need to engage someone (a fly by) and i magically see damage appear. I did'nt see, or hear anything. For all i know 2 more volleys might be on their way.
Come on people... Forget who vs what and actually fix some ISSUES that cause the problem. Can't we agree on that?
Preach it brother
Every commando k.o, every weapon at adv or above. Don't give a damn bout my kdr, I will kill you.
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
199
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 19:01:00 -
[108] - Quote
killian178 wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:The only problem i have with swarms is it's a sure 75 damage wp at advanced, and w/o them rendering unless you are facing the direction of the swarmer. That's simply unfair because one can't hear them, one can't see them; but, one must feel them.
Honestly, that alone makes swarms overpowered. A ghostly 800+ damage weapon that you cannot see, hear, or avoid (the swarms just follow the dropship's path over time and the wider turning circle w/o inertia improves the swarms slightly [e.g: they fly around the building]) w/o boosting to full throttle.
I don't even need to engage someone (a fly by) and i magically see damage appear. I did'nt see, or hear anything. For all i know 2 more volleys might be on their way.
Come on people... Forget who vs what and actually fix some ISSUES that cause the problem. Can't we agree on that? Preach it brother
I can agree on some of this yes there are still rendering issues but to get the +75 i think that it has to be Amor damage but i could be worng not sure on that.
When i fly i can hear the swarms fire every time by the time they fire the 3rd im out of the area. as far as i know there is a 375- 400m swarm range
Sir Dukey
If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
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postapo wastelander
Corrosive Synergy
870
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 19:12:00 -
[109] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous.
MAG raven Vet and again something is OP (i was on forums im SVER vet i know) ;p
Just joke :)
But honesly, i saw many DS pilot with piloting their vehicle with awesome skill using terain and objects.
DS should be like duck on open fields thats easy.
I can not and i will not support this till all vehicles will be properly balanced.
There is no countermeassure to DS because you are not limited to moving on field.
Till we have jets or more AV weapons (even AAA systems on field) i will be glad for what we have right now.
I do not want experience what we have on time of Tanks 514 and DS 514 before.
"We build from rust"
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
199
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 20:35:00 -
[110] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Buwaro Draemon wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:neausea 1987 wrote:sounds to me like a butthurt thread. i know some real badass dropship pilots and if it were'nt for swarms they would easily get 30+ kills a game. swarms are there to keep y'all air jockeys in check, if you dont like it fight on the ground, its about balance not total derp domination, hell i dont even use em' i use the plc ang forge but more often then not you need a swarm. Yeah, pilots that could get 30+ kills a game... Funnily enough, a lot of those pilots could probably get 30+ kills on foot, without having the handicap of OP swarms, why should it be possible for most fits to get 30+ kills but not ADS. And for the argument of 'there are adv and pro swarms but only std vehicles, so the swarms should be much more powerful', this shouldn't be the case. If there are no adv or pro vehicles, then AV should be balanced around the STD vehicles. How would AV players like it if the only AV weapons were the STD variants, but there were adv and pro vehicles? They are balanced around the STD hulls. Thats not what I heard, various different people told me that they were balanced around STD, ADV and PRO vehicles
they used to be but not any more. thats when the swarms had 4 to a mag 6 missiles 400m lock on delt more damage
Sir Dukey
If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2871
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 21:00:00 -
[111] - Quote
Swarms should have a lead missile that acts as a guide for the others.
When you shoot your swarm launcher... You enter a camera mode that you then have to fly into your target...
It should do tremendous damage as it will be skill based and require cover to operate.
But vehicles in general need an overhaul...
There has to be true purpose to them being on the battlefield... And right now they have been confused for 8-9 months...
Until vehicles and AV are reworked and balanced .... trying to do one thing at a time will be a giant waste of time, it would be like playing a giant game of Wack-A-Mole. |
Nonoriri ko
Onikanabo Brigade
Caldari State
31
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 21:07:00 -
[112] - Quote
Hardly anyone begins a match as Av. Av comes from supply depot after ads has been deployed.
The balanced fix would be to stop supply depots from letting you change fits. Only refill ammo. But who are we kidding, that would never happen.
It's just so easy for any of 16 people to run to depot, change to av, kill ads, then switch back. |
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
158
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 21:37:00 -
[113] - Quote
Nonoriri ko wrote:Hardly anyone begins a match as Av. Av comes from supply depot after ads has been deployed.
The balanced fix would be to stop supply depots from letting you change fits. Only refill ammo. But who are we kidding, that would never happen.
It's just so easy for any of 16 people to run to depot, change to av, kill ads, then switch back.
I've seen lots of people starting the match with AV, it's not uncommon
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
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Shamarskii Simon
The Hundred Acre Hood
RISE of LEGION
14
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Posted - 2015.01.04 00:55:00 -
[114] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:killian178 wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:The only problem i have with swarms is it's a sure 75 damage wp at advanced, and w/o them rendering unless you are facing the direction of the swarmer. That's simply unfair because one can't hear them, one can't see them; but, one must feel them.
Honestly, that alone makes swarms overpowered. A ghostly 800+ damage weapon that you cannot see, hear, or avoid (the swarms just follow the dropship's path over time and the wider turning circle w/o inertia improves the swarms slightly [e.g: they fly around the building]) w/o boosting to full throttle.
I don't even need to engage someone (a fly by) and i magically see damage appear. I did'nt see, or hear anything. For all i know 2 more volleys might be on their way.
Come on people... Forget who vs what and actually fix some ISSUES that cause the problem. Can't we agree on that? Preach it brother I can agree on some of this yes there are still rendering issues but to get the +75 i think that it has to be Amor damage but i could be worng not sure on that. When i fly i can hear the swarms fire every time by the time they fire the 3rd im out of the area. as far as i know there is a 375- 400m swarm range
1000 damage = 75 wp from what i've experienced. Proto = sure 75 on shields, adv = sure 75 on armor below 1000 shield. Basic = sure 75 on armor.
And everyone needs to understand that the hate for dropships are so bad. I take a swarm resistant myron and just hover near an objective. You should have seen how many people ran to their supply depot and switched to av rather than defend their objective.
A non combative dropship > winning the round in some cases.
It's always so funny when someone sends me mail asking "what was your build? I had a lvl 5 min commando proto prof 5 swarms and 2 comp damage mods and i barely scratched you."
^ ive done my job, i distracted about 3 or 4 people and we secured the objective.
Please please, don't be greedy people. Play with common sense and not a kid begging for wp cause people like me will arrive and ruin the entire game for you.
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
199
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Posted - 2015.01.04 05:14:00 -
[115] - Quote
Nonoriri ko wrote:Hardly anyone begins a match as Av. Av comes from supply depot after ads has been deployed.
The balanced fix would be to stop supply depots from letting you change fits. Only refill ammo. But who are we kidding, that would never happen.
It's just so easy for any of 16 people to run to depot, change to av, kill ads, then switch back.
i start games with AV depending on who is on the other side, also on ambush OMS i wait for a bit to see how it starts
Sir Dukey
If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
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Pocket Rocket Girl
Psygod9
199
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Posted - 2015.01.04 05:20:00 -
[116] - Quote
Shamarskii Simon wrote:Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:killian178 wrote:Shamarskii Simon wrote:The only problem i have with swarms is it's a sure 75 damage wp at advanced, and w/o them rendering unless you are facing the direction of the swarmer. That's simply unfair because one can't hear them, one can't see them; but, one must feel them.
Honestly, that alone makes swarms overpowered. A ghostly 800+ damage weapon that you cannot see, hear, or avoid (the swarms just follow the dropship's path over time and the wider turning circle w/o inertia improves the swarms slightly [e.g: they fly around the building]) w/o boosting to full throttle.
I don't even need to engage someone (a fly by) and i magically see damage appear. I did'nt see, or hear anything. For all i know 2 more volleys might be on their way.
Come on people... Forget who vs what and actually fix some ISSUES that cause the problem. Can't we agree on that? Preach it brother I can agree on some of this yes there are still rendering issues but to get the +75 i think that it has to be Amor damage but i could be worng not sure on that. When i fly i can hear the swarms fire every time by the time they fire the 3rd im out of the area. as far as i know there is a 375- 400m swarm range 1000 damage = 75 wp from what i've experienced. Proto = sure 75 on shields, adv = sure 75 on armor below 1000 shield. Basic = sure 75 on armor. And everyone needs to understand that the hate for dropships are so bad. I take a swarm resistant myron and just hover near an objective. You should have seen how many people ran to their supply depot and switched to av rather than defend their objective. A non combative dropship > winning the round in some cases. It's always so funny when someone sends me mail asking "what was your build? I had a lvl 5 min commando proto prof 5 swarms and 2 comp damage mods and i barely scratched you." ^ ive done my job, i distracted about 3 or 4 people and we secured the objective. Please please, don't be greedy people. Play with common sense and not a kid begging for wp cause people like me will arrive and ruin the entire game for you.
the hate for DS is bad indeed ill fly my myron and get shot at by Rifles, HMG, pistols. and its amusing.
just today i jumped on a DS and knifed the **** out of it but because i wanted to see if it would work.
Sir Dukey
If one person is smart he should be able to keep vehicle at bay but not destroy it unless its a stupid driver
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LUGMOS
Quafe Premium
1346
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Posted - 2015.01.04 05:49:00 -
[117] - Quote
Its all about psychology as Shamarskii explained. Imhonestly think he's been the most rational in this thread, along with Bethy.
There has been very poor conduct in this thread as well (not pointing any fingers though)
Official QuafeGäó Advocate
Anti-FoTM Prof. V
Forum Scavenger Prof. V
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
440
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Posted - 2015.01.06 05:19:00 -
[118] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:
then dont forget the suit, the suit modules, the core suit skills, weapon skills damage mod skills.
like i said the way i have my DS ADS set up at thoes levels i do fine i get shot down for hovering too long getting jumped by AV or just having a bad pilot day. i dont need to have my cal ads to level 5 all it does is increase rof which wont help with how bad the rof is and small missile operation isnt useful with how little PG CPU you gain back from it say what you want but like sir dukey said
"
If that one person is smart he should be able to keep tank at bay but not destroy it unless tank has stupid driver."
You can add all of those in for a Swarm suit & it will not come anywhere close to the SP amount for a decent ADS build.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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Cat Merc
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
14298
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Posted - 2015.01.06 05:32:00 -
[119] - Quote
http://i.imgur.com/PzU8t9f.gif
Feline overlord of all humans
Assault Conglomerate: Because we don't shave
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da GAND
Seykal Expeditionary Group
Minmatar Republic
1095
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Posted - 2015.01.06 05:50:00 -
[120] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous.
I don't have much say on this topic but maybe putting a module in the game for dropships when equipped would warn the derpship pilot that they've been locked onto and/or have missiles that are heading for them.
Not sure about having modules that would make missiles go off track or prevent people from locking on, I just think that a module that would warn pilots would be a good start.
Should Legion be on the ps4?
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
445
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Posted - 2015.01.06 05:59:00 -
[121] - Quote
da GAND wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. I don't have much say on this topic but maybe putting a module in the game for dropships when equipped would warn the derpship pilot that they've been locked onto and/or have missiles that are heading for them. Not sure about having modules that would make missiles go off track or prevent people from locking on, I just think that a module that would warn pilots would be a good start.
Wouldn't do any good cause there is still invisible swarms, Swarmers themselves still don't render at times. Also, ADS can barely escape them.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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SgtMajSquish MLBJ
Consolidated Dust
261
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Posted - 2015.01.06 09:31:00 -
[122] - Quote
The next lock should not be able to be completed until the first set of missiles have hit or disappeared
Rise and shine CCP. It's time to implement ping based match making.
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