|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
   |
Posted - 2015.01.02 16:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 17:20:00 -
[2] - Quote
There are dropships in PC because they're vital for a win, there aren't many swarms because they can't kill infantry, and in an organised battle if you're running around after vehicles when you can't kill infantry you're effectively useless,which is why forge guns and rail tanks are used instead.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 17:21:00 -
[3] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players. I cannot support your complaint.
speed mods were nerfed so swarms can catch up to ADS easily, when you're in an ADS it's almost impossible to avoid to first volleys from swarm launchers, normal dropships could never avoid them, however they can get a lot more HP than ADS
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 17:24:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:A bunch of correct stuff. Just adding to this: swarms, quite literally, only target installations and vehicles. You saccing a potential anti-infantry weapon for a potent AV weapon.
Even so, it should take a little more skill to take down dropships, tanks are in an alright place because they have so much HP, but ADS don't have that, all they had was their speed to get away from swarms, which made them usless because they were so far away from battle, now that the speed is gone they can't even do that.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 17:25:00 -
[5] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Swarms have a very limited range compared to forge guns. They used to be entirely a non-threat, and no, that's never going back the way it was. Because dropships are still one of the hardest to kill things in the game thanks to the fact that only a couple weapons can even damage them.
Swarms have always been a threat to dropships, because if they didn't destroy them from the initial damage they deal, they would flip the dropship around until it crashed and burned, now they're unescapable and just a way for AV to get easy wp
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 17:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Why so many dropships in PC?
Why so few swarms? not true. I see atleast 3-4 minmando swarmers in every PC compared to the 2-3 derpships
and in pub matches, the majority of the enemy team will bring out some sort of AV if the ADS is seen on the killfeed, so soon after there are a load of missiles coming at your expensive flying coffin that you can't do anything to avoid
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 17:48:00 -
[7] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Swarms have a very limited range compared to forge guns. They used to be entirely a non-threat, and no, that's never going back the way it was. Because dropships are still one of the hardest to kill things in the game thanks to the fact that only a couple weapons can even damage them. Swarms have always been a threat to dropships, because if they didn't destroy them from the initial damage they deal, they would flip the dropship around until it crashed and burned, now they're unescapable and just a way for AV to get easy wp Let me ask you, how many dropships do you lose a match, on average? Are you using a standard dropship or an ADS? How many kills do you average in a match?
I don't normally get many kills with my ADS because i'm always avoiding the swarms that seem to be all over the map, so i don't get many kills but i don't die too much either. when i go for kills i get more kills but i lose 3-4 ADS in the game, which is a lot of isk lost.
And then you have swarms, which can happily sit behind their team taking pot shots at any vehicle they see, yes they have a weakness against infantry, but thats what sidearms are for. Swarm users aren't a big flying object either, so they can be seen from across the map by the things that are specifically designed to kill them.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 17:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Also, ADS were more of a threat when they had a much higher RoF, but now thats gone as well, so they can't kill people as easily, and AV can kill them much easier.
This is another double nerf that CCP seem to love doing...
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 18:11:00 -
[9] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Swarm users don't have a weakness against infantry. They're useless against infantry. Sidearms don't really help that much. It was very common to lose six proto swarm fits trying to catch one ADS.
It sounds like your kills/deaths is probably pretty healthy. Because yes, playing aggressively should cause you to lose your ADS a few times in a match.
Sidearms are a massive help, and if you lose 6 proto swarm fits then you're doing something wrong, it's always been easy to get rid of dropships, whether they're destroyed or just pushed into the redline for the rest of the game.
And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 18:15:00 -
[10] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Swamrs only usefulness is to work against vehicles. It can't do anything else other than that, so yeah it should exceed at its role to take out vehicles (and be widely use because you can use swarms on all dropsuits and you can only use the Forge Gun on a Heavy Basic Frame and Sentinel and PLCs are laughable against vehicles)
So do what I do when I go use my ADS, Don't hover over an area :D do strafe runs. It is more fun than hovering over a place anyways.
And how well do you do with that? considering that swarms get 75 points just for hitting the ADS (which as we all know is really easy) how many kills/wp do you get by doing strafe runs?
strafing runs used to work well with the ADSs high RoF, but with the low RoF the ADS has now, strafing runs are barely viable
ADS have gone from a killing machine to something you use to take out rooftop links in PC
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
|
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 18:17:00 -
[11] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance.
Well when swarms are easy to get a hold of and skill into, but ADS take a load of SP to skill into, don't balance it.
Things should only be balanced if it takes a similar amount of SP and isk to use each of them, which with swarms and ADS isn't the case
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
147
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 18:20:00 -
[12] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Sir Snugglz wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Why so many dropships in PC?
Why so few swarms? not true. I see atleast 3-4 minmando swarmers in every PC compared to the 2-3 derpships If you are correct, and OP is correct, then those 2-3 derpships wouldn't last long, would they? Methinks one of you must be mistaken.
They don't last long, thats why most ADS users in PC getpayed much more than everyone else because they're always losing their ADS. This only doesn't apply when the team those ADS are against aren't using any AV at all
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
149
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 18:31:00 -
[13] - Quote
boba's fetta wrote:ads should get counter measures only if the ads actully explodes the instant you hit zero hp instead of allowing you to bail every goddam time cheating me of my hard earned kill.
good pilots are extreamly difficult to down and swarms are not as skill less as you claim. you need to know which targets you can take and when to fire.
oh dear the other team has 4 people who can make you run off.
oh no swarms are op because you always get hit by the first volley. shame it only takes 4 volleys to kill a **** fit ads.
you should actully try thosse op swarms and come back and tell us all how easy they are.
I do have swarms to prototypes and I do use them, yes it's hard to take down really good pilots, but that's because they're really good pilots...
And those 4 people that make ADS run off were more common before the nerf to ADS, now they're just 4 people who take out your expensive flying coffin without the pilots being able to do anything about it.
If you're telling me to use swarms more often, how about you use ADS? see if you get anywhere without being chased down by lock on missiles that are impossible to avoid.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
149
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 18:46:00 -
[14] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
. What kind of Proto Officer Uber l337 Swarms with 1000mts lock on range are you using?Last time i Checked, once you hit a dropship once with swarm they fly away into the horizon to regenerate... Or is it that you are just a crappy pilot? Dont be ashamed. I su*k too.
That was when afterburners were more effective, now you can't escape swarms like that
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
150
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 18:49:00 -
[15] - Quote
Tesfa Alem wrote:You think a pilot in a PC is only going to pull out 1 dropship? "Sorry guys, got shot down once, gonna sit the rest of this one out." said no pilot ever. As soon as it gets shot down, you call in another. And another. And another. Also having 15 other players in full proto to kill those AV' ers hep. Also sidearms are moot point, when swarms are used on Commandos. But, OP you have to face the music. Dropships got wrecked, and the CPM and CCP are very happy about where they are. When Rattati said Incubus are in a good place vs swarms because people use the Python in PC, thats when i gave up hope. Check the Development Discussion archives. So now, no matter what suit i'm in, whatever situation, i terminate swarms with extreme prejudice. Except in my ADS, then i sort of have to fly away, then explode at about 420m away.
Yeah... looks like my derpships have to sit back and collect dust. Unless I need to take out some links on a rooftop, which is pretty much all they're good for atm
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
150
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 19:18:00 -
[16] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. If one swarmer could take out an ADS as easily as an ADS could take out a swarmer, 1 swarmer could easily take on a team of ADSs. The two are not equal, not by a long shot. Minutia like target acquisition, aiming, maneuvering, hitting targets, etc all favor swarms by a large degree. To your previous point about range, swarms and forges have about the same effective range of 175-200m, anything beyond that the forge becomes a shot in the dark. I don't care who you are, you're not killing an ADS at +300m unless it's almost dead and standing still. It's like saying the small rail can effectively be used at +150m.
When the ADS is being knocked around by swarms then it gets difficult to kill the swarmer, especially when there are lots of them.
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
150
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 19:20:00 -
[17] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Vulpes Dolosus wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. If one swarmer could take out an ADS as easily as an ADS could take out a swarmer, 1 swarmer could easily take on a team of ADSs. The two are not equal, not by a long shot. Minutia like target acquisition, aiming, maneuvering, hitting targets, etc all favor swarms by a large degree. To your previous point about range, swarms and forges have about the same effective range of 175-200m, anything beyond that the forge becomes a shot in the dark. I don't care who you are, you're not killing an ADS at +300m unless it's almost dead and standing still. It's like saying the small rail can effectively be used at +150m. Which is exactly why the original post is a gross exaggeration. A single swarmer cannot easily take down an ADS; if one could, the ADS wouldn't be such a common sight in PC.
ADS are always going to be a common sight in PC, because nothing can fill the same role of an ADS.
Besides, most of the AV in PCs are forge guns because they can be used for objective overwatch as well as AV, swarms are rarely used in PC, which is why you only ever see an excess of ADS in PC
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
150
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 20:38:00 -
[18] - Quote
Swarms can fulfill their primary role, which is to take out vehicles. There isn't much that can stop the swarmer from doing this, unless the driver/pilot is really good at what they do.
Meanwhile, ADS are stopped from doing their primary role by anyone with a swarm launcher, all that they have left to do is recall, take out rooftop links or just die
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
153
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 21:06:00 -
[19] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players. I cannot support your complaint. "Avoid the swarms." Literally impossible You've obviously never flown a dropship. It doesn't matter if it's MLT, STD or ADS, swarms pound the ever living hell out of dropships. I fly them quite often actually, and even though I only use Militia these days I would say I survive swarms as often as I lose a ship to them because I note where the swarms are coming from (e.g. I watch when other vehicles are getting shot) and avoid the area. As for actually avoiding the swarm missiles themselves, which I think is what you thought I meant but didn't mean, this is also possible provided you are relatively close to structures to fly behind/around/under etc. Swarms don't have the turn radius they used to have - it's easy to "thread the needle" where they can't. Honestly.
There a reason your militia DS doesn't get shot down all the time, and thats because noone cares about militia DSs
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
153
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 21:08:00 -
[20] - Quote
calvin b wrote:Why I cant say yes. Why because of Assault Dropships, they bombard you over and over and when you try and defend yourself they hit the burners and they are gone. This is such a cheap trick. I spend a lot of my time hunting DS for this reason. I cant stand some pilots and for me that has made me dislike vehicles as a whole. I went as far as skilling into tanks so I can hunt with a Rail tank to destroy tanks and DS alike. Pilots brought it on themselves for acting in such a way.
ADS can't afterburn away anymore, afterburners were nerfed massively along with the swarm speed, which means that they can't escape swarms at all
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
|
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
155
|
Posted - 2015.01.02 21:41:00 -
[21] - Quote
Spkr4theDead wrote:Sir Snugglz wrote:
not sure what PC's you play, but i see more minmando swarmers than forges in every PC match
He probably doesn't do PC. I bet it's too hard.
I do PC, but only in the noob leagues, where minmandos are rarely seen
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
157
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 15:20:00 -
[22] - Quote
neausea 1987 wrote:sounds to me like a butthurt thread. i know some real badass dropship pilots and if it were'nt for swarms they would easily get 30+ kills a game. swarms are there to keep y'all air jockeys in check, if you dont like it fight on the ground, its about balance not total derp domination, hell i dont even use em' i use the plc ang forge but more often then not you need a swarm.
Yeah, pilots that could get 30+ kills a game...
Funnily enough, a lot of those pilots could probably get 30+ kills on foot, without having the handicap of OP swarms, why should it be possible for most fits to get 30+ kills but not ADS.
And for the argument of 'there are adv and pro swarms but only std vehicles, so the swarms should be much more powerful', this shouldn't be the case. If there are no adv or pro vehicles, then AV should be balanced around the STD vehicles. How would AV players like it if the only AV weapons were the STD variants, but there were adv and pro vehicles?
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
157
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 18:07:00 -
[23] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:neausea 1987 wrote:sounds to me like a butthurt thread. i know some real badass dropship pilots and if it were'nt for swarms they would easily get 30+ kills a game. swarms are there to keep y'all air jockeys in check, if you dont like it fight on the ground, its about balance not total derp domination, hell i dont even use em' i use the plc ang forge but more often then not you need a swarm. Yeah, pilots that could get 30+ kills a game... Funnily enough, a lot of those pilots could probably get 30+ kills on foot, without having the handicap of OP swarms, why should it be possible for most fits to get 30+ kills but not ADS. And for the argument of 'there are adv and pro swarms but only std vehicles, so the swarms should be much more powerful', this shouldn't be the case. If there are no adv or pro vehicles, then AV should be balanced around the STD vehicles. How would AV players like it if the only AV weapons were the STD variants, but there were adv and pro vehicles? They are balanced around the STD hulls.
Thats not what I heard, various different people told me that they were balanced around STD, ADV and PRO vehicles
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
Jammeh McJam
F0RSAKEN EMPIRE.
Smart Deploy
158
|
Posted - 2015.01.03 21:37:00 -
[24] - Quote
Nonoriri ko wrote:Hardly anyone begins a match as Av. Av comes from supply depot after ads has been deployed.
The balanced fix would be to stop supply depots from letting you change fits. Only refill ammo. But who are we kidding, that would never happen.
It's just so easy for any of 16 people to run to depot, change to av, kill ads, then switch back.
I've seen lots of people starting the match with AV, it's not uncommon
"We may be small and disorganized, but we're still gonna kill you" - Intergalactic Super Friends
MAG ~ Raven vet
|
|
|
| |
|