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Spkr4theDead
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:40:00 -
[1] - Quote
VikingKong iBUN wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
This part is only true if you're against a team that's ****. Against a good team you would be getting shot, making swarm launcher use slightly more difficult.
Swarm use more difficult? That's laughable
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:41:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Why so many dropships in PC?
Why so few swarms?
Because dropships are the most useful vehicle in PC right now.
If logi ships are reintroduced with a great mCRU skill at level 5, like a 3 second spawn, then every single corp will field one of those every single match.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:43:00 -
[3] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
Forge guns are ok because at least you have to aim, but using swarms is just a way to get easy wp.
CCP pls, either return swarms and dropships to how they were before the changes so that afterburners are more effective and swarms are slower, or give dropships some kind of counter-measure for swarms, because this is getting ridiculous. This true for militia DS, definately. If you are in a Standard DS, or an ADS, then this is not true - those are harder to kill as they have higher HP and speed mods on them. This is working fine - if you want better surviability, don't fly militia or just avoid the SL players. I cannot support your complaint.
"Avoid the swarms." Literally impossible
You've obviously never flown a dropship. It doesn't matter if it's MLT, STD or ADS, swarms pound the ever living hell out of dropships.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Swarms have a very limited range compared to forge guns. They used to be entirely a non-threat, and no, that's never going back the way it was. Because dropships are still one of the hardest to kill things in the game thanks to the fact that only a couple weapons can even damage them.
It's called a rail tank. I can take out a Python in 2 shots and an Incubus in 3 if it has a plate; 2 shots if it's base HP.
No, it's not hard to take out an ADS.
And what non-threat are you talking about? They used to have an insane lock on range, which was insane. The lock on range nerf was a good thing.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Forlorn Destrier wrote:A bunch of correct stuff. Just adding to this: swarms, quite literally, only target installations and vehicles. You saccing a potential anti-infantry weapon for a potent AV weapon. Even so, it should take a little more skill to take down dropships, tanks are in an alright place because they have so much HP, but ADS don't have that, all they had was their speed to get away from swarms, which made them usless because they were so far away from battle, now that the speed is gone they can't even do that.
lol you think tanks are in an alright place? If an armor tank gets fluxed then pounded by a level 5 Minmando with proficiency 5 and 3 damage mods, that's a completely dead tank if it's trying to speed away in a straight line.
Infantry is lazy and doesn't want to put any effort in to destroying vehicles.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Swarm users don't have a weakness against infantry. They're useless against infantry. Sidearms don't really help that much. It was very common to lose six proto swarm fits trying to catch one ADS.
It sounds like your kills/deaths is probably pretty healthy. Because yes, playing aggressively should cause you to lose your ADS a few times in a match.
It's called a commando. Do you even play Dust?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Yeeeuuuupppp wrote:Countermeasures = Flares or something that blocks the lock, but to balance it out, swarms range would have to be tweaked a bit
Range lock on buff? No, because that screws tanks and LAVs.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:Swamrs only usefulness is to work against vehicles. It can't do anything else other than that, so yeah it should exceed at its role to take out vehicles (and be widely use because you can use swarms on all dropsuits and you can only use the Forge Gun on a Heavy Basic Frame and Sentinel and PLCs are laughable against vehicles)
So do what I do when I go use my ADS, Don't hover over an area :D do strafe runs. It is more fun than hovering over a place anyways.
Strafe run means maybe 2 missiles, that's real useful. These aren't A-10 Warthogs.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 20:51:00 -
[9] - Quote
Vitantur Nothus wrote:Sir Snugglz wrote:Vitantur Nothus wrote:Why so many dropships in PC?
Why so few swarms? not true. I see atleast 3-4 minmando swarmers in every PC compared to the 2-3 derpships If you are correct, and OP is correct, then those 2-3 derpships wouldn't last very long, would they? Methinks one of you must be mistaken.
He's absolutely correct, I do PC with him all the time.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:04:00 -
[10] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance.
There's no balance now. Tanks and ADS are glass, while AV is the cannon.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2654
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:08:00 -
[11] - Quote
boba's fetta wrote:ads should get counter measures only if the ads actully explodes the instant you hit zero hp instead of allowing you to bail every goddam time cheating me of my hard earned kill.
good pilots are extreamly difficult to down and swarms are not as skill less as you claim. you need to know which targets you can take and when to fire.
oh dear the other team has 4 people who can make you run off.
oh no swarms are op because you always get hit by the first volley. shame it only takes 4 volleys to kill a **** fit ads.
you should actully try thosse op swarms and come back and tell us all how easy they are.
lol this coming from a guy that obviously doesn't fly.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:12:00 -
[12] - Quote
KING CHECKMATE wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Why is it that all it takes to destroy a dropship, is lock on with swarms (which takes no skill), let go of a button (which takes no skill) and then repeat?
. What kind of Proto Officer Uber l337 Swarms with 1000mts lock on range are you using?Last time i Checked, once you hit a dropship once with swarm they fly away into the horizon to regenerate... Or is it that you are just a crappy pilot? Dont be ashamed. I su*k too.
The third volley is guaranteed to hit. Stop talking about how difficult it is to destroy vehicles.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Will Driver wrote:Your tears are music to my ears.
You wouldn't be saying that if you were in the air. You've obviously never flown a dropship, nor do you know what it's like to lose 300k - 450k ISK in one death.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:35:00 -
[14] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Swarm users don't have a weakness against infantry. They're useless against infantry. Sidearms don't really help that much. It was very common to lose six proto swarm fits trying to catch one ADS.
It sounds like your kills/deaths is probably pretty healthy. Because yes, playing aggressively should cause you to lose your ADS a few times in a match. my issue isnt with swarms. It's with minmando swarmers. Swarms are powerful but ok. But if you add the bonuses from a minmando, its op. Originally a fully specced swarmer gets 25% lockon reduction, 15% per missile damage vs armor (4 missiles = 60%; i could be reading this wrong too though), and 15% reload speed. And I think that's fine. But with the minmando you get an additional 25% reload speed (40% total) plus 10% GENERAL bonus damage (meaning the swarm does 10% BONUS damage to shields and 25% BONUS damage to armor... if its per missile then its a total of 100% dmg to armor which seems wrong.) even if were to take the damage as volley instead of per missile, This pretty much sounds like a accelerated turret that shoots 4 missiles at a time and locks on to vehicles. I bet you if their was a turret version of this on my ADS everyone would be crying OP. Secondly, you say "They're useless against infantry. " Which does not apply to Minmando's. I've seen too many minmando's in PC killing any infantry that gets close and then switching back to swarms and going after ADS in the city. Especially on catwalks.
The one we were in maybe early this week, when they had like 4 or 5 guys at our HP, just one guy in a Minmando with swarms nearly destroyed my tank in 3 volleys. Got me to about 600 armor.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:37:00 -
[15] - Quote
Sir Snugglz wrote:
not sure what PC's you play, but i see more minmando swarmers than forges in every PC match
He probably doesn't do PC. I bet it's too hard.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:40:00 -
[16] - Quote
Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. Well when swarms are easy to get a hold of and skill into, but ADS take a load of SP to skill into, don't balance it. Things should only be balanced if it takes a similar amount of SP and isk to use each of them, which with swarms and ADS isn't the case lets see numbers based on how i have my DS/ ADS no modules turrets just ship SP to unlock standard DS vehicle command lv3 68,5k sp drop ship operation lv3 273.5k sp ADS ADS lv1 37.5k sp ADS lv4 410k sp which is my current level in ADS so just to unlock the ship its 379,5k sp with how i have my skills ive invested 789k sp i am taking in to account that people complain about proto swarms which is the value i am going to put it weaponry lv3 68.5k sp sp light weapon operation lv3 136k sp swarm launcher operation lv1 12,5k sp swarm launcher operation lv5 621.5k sp (which are the ones i use the most ) so just to unlock the basic swarm its 217k sp with how i have my skills its \ 838ksp im not the best pilot but the people who ride with me know the only time i do get shot down is when im being a dumb pilot hovering for too long, get jumped by AV(i also include tanks) , or hit a building oh or get rammed by a scrubby pilot while i swarm (dual minmando) i find myself diyng to ground troops before i can even get to the DS/ADS. ( no i dont roof top camp dont like being sniper food). do i get the drop ship? sometimes but 70% of the time they just out fly the 2nd and 3rd volly most of the time its just the 3rd im not saying that anything is OP or UP but i feel that av and DS are in a good place
You, a "vehicles are OP" person, have the ADS? This I have to see to believe.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:41:00 -
[17] - Quote
Reign Omega wrote:Dropship flares, with limited non resuppliable charges.
Wait, you mean to tell me you wouldn't be able to resupply them at a depot?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:47:00 -
[18] - Quote
Forlorn Destrier wrote:I fly them quite often actually, and even though I only use Militia these days I would say I survive swarms as often as I lose a ship to them because I note where the swarms are coming from (e.g. I watch when other vehicles are getting shot) and avoid the area.
There's still the problem of invisible swarms along with non-working hit markers, so no, it's not always possible to tell where you're getting hit from. And only using MLT? You likely get shot down more often than you're letting on.
As for actually avoiding the swarm missiles themselves, which I think is what you thought I meant but didn't mean, this is also possible provided you are relatively close to structures to fly behind/around/under etc. Swarms don't have the turn radius they used to have - it's easy to "thread the needle" where they can't. Honestly.
No, it's still difficult to avoid swarms, because when I'm in a tank, they go around two corners, and skim the ground when I'm going down a slope. It's the same when I'm flying a Grimsnes. Since it's slow, all 3 volleys hit, sometimes a 4th if it's a commando carrying a pair of swarms. If it's a pair of people with PRO and 2 damage mods, I'm likely going down, because that's 6 volleys hitting within 4 seconds of each other.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 21:49:00 -
[19] - Quote
calvin b wrote: I cant stand some pilots and for me that has made me dislike vehicles as a whole.
So because some pilots are so good, a few people made you hate vehicles?
I went as far as skilling into tanks so I can hunt with a Rail tank to destroy tanks and DS alike. Pilots brought it on themselves for acting in such a way.
So you're essentially new to tanking. Good luck against my blaster.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:21:00 -
[20] - Quote
Quasar Storm wrote:Pocket Rocket Girl wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:Soraya Xel wrote:Jammeh McJam wrote:And when swarms cost nowhere near as much as ADS, there shouldn't be 'balance' between them, it should take more than one swarmer to take out an ADS, which is how it was before, now swarmers can easily solo dropships Incorrect. One player = one player. There needs to be balance. Well when swarms are easy to get a hold of and skill into, but ADS take a load of SP to skill into, don't balance it. Things should only be balanced if it takes a similar amount of SP and isk to use each of them, which with swarms and ADS isn't the case lets see numbers based on how i have my DS/ ADS no modules turrets just ship SP to unlock standard DS vehicle command lv3 68,5k sp drop ship operation lv3 273.5k sp ADS ADS lv1 37.5k sp ADS lv4 410k sp which is my current level in ADS so just to unlock the ship its 379,5k sp with how i have my skills ive invested 789k sp i am taking in to account that people complain about proto swarms which is the value i am going to put it weaponry lv3 68.5k sp sp light weapon operation lv3 136k sp swarm launcher operation lv1 12,5k sp swarm launcher operation lv5 621.5k sp (which are the ones i use the most ) so just to unlock the basic swarm its 217k sp with how i have my skills its \ 838ksp im not the best pilot but the people who ride with me know the only time i do get shot down is when im being a dumb pilot hovering for too long, get jumped by AV(i also include tanks) , or hit a building oh or get rammed by a scrubby pilot while i swarm (dual minmando) i find myself diyng to ground troops before i can even get to the DS/ADS. ( no i dont roof top camp dont like being sniper food). do i get the drop ship? sometimes but 70% of the time they just out fly the 2nd and 3rd volly most of the time its just the 3rd im not saying that anything is OP or UP but i feel that av and DS are in a good place You're sh!tting me right? Don't forget Shield Operation, Shield optimization, Small Turret Operation., Small Missiles, Small missile Optimization., Getting your Assault Dropships book to 3-5 & Caldari Assault Dropship to 3-5. This is what you need in order to make a competitive ADS. This is also minus the tweaks of Small Missile Reload, Ammo Vehicle Core Crid & Engine Core & Electronics.
All it takes to make a great forge fit is Caldari basic heavy frame at level 1 I believe, for the 3 high slots, forge operation to 5, and proficiency to 5. We could ignore the reload and ammo, plus the fitting proficiency, because all we're looking for here is damage. That's less than 2mil SP. Meanwhile for an ADS, you're looking at around 12mil SP.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:26:00 -
[21] - Quote
Buwaro Draemon wrote:In my opinion opinion, as long as ADS exists, AV vs Vehicles will never be balanced.
So CCP should remove the ADS to achieve balance? Is that what you're saying?
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:27:00 -
[22] - Quote
Soraya Xel wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Will Driver wrote:Your tears are music to my ears. You wouldn't be saying that if you were in the air. You've obviously never flown a dropship, nor do you know what it's like to lose 300k - 450k ISK in one death. Your tears are, in fact, some of the sweetest notes I have ever heard. Wow, a member of the CPM saying that, real mature. When do you graduate high school?Spkr4theDead wrote:The one we were in maybe early this week, when they had like 4 or 5 guys at our HP, just one guy in a Minmando with swarms nearly destroyed my tank in 3 volleys. Got me to about 600 armor. Nearly? You're crying about being "nearly" destroyed now? Do you even tank? Do you know what it's like to get absolutely hammered by one person? No? Then kinda strap yourself into a Soma to try it out.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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Spkr4theDead
Red Star.
EoN.
2655
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Posted - 2015.01.02 22:28:00 -
[23] - Quote
Jammeh McJam wrote:Spkr4theDead wrote:Sir Snugglz wrote:
not sure what PC's you play, but i see more minmando swarmers than forges in every PC match
He probably doesn't do PC. I bet it's too hard. I do PC, but only in the noob leagues, where minmandos are rarely seen
What noob leagues? Everybody goes hard in PC all the time.
I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
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