DUST Search - To Rattati: small balancing on ScR.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

Alena Ventrallis wrote:

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:

NO.
This is as silly as someone complaining that mass drivers do too much damage to armor, and requesting that the damage profile get changed to -15/+15 instead of -20/+20.

Weapons are categorized by profile types. Projectile (-15/+15), explosive (-20/+20), hybrid-rail (-10/+10), hybrid-blaster/plasma (+10/-10), and laser (+20/-20). The scrambler rifle has a laser profile, along with the laser rifle, and scrambler pistol. If we start having weapons of the same profile types having different damage profiles, then those categories just start to be meaningless.

1. Balance takes preference over profiles.

2. Short range crystals deal thermal damage in addition to em damage. Thus the ScR with short range crystals would deal some thermal damage, some em dage. Since pure em is +20/-20 and pure thermal is +10/-10, then in between is +15/-15. The laser rifle is fitted with a long range crystal which deals pure em, thus +20/-20

Nothing suggests a damage reduction is needed, or that the damage profile needs changing.

A prototype SCR with prof 4, and 3 complex damage mod does 113 damage to shields. Not even close to to 450
A prototype tac AR with prof 4, and 3 complex damage mod does 106 damage to shields. Not much of a difference.

I have no idea how you got 450. Use protofits if you can't calculate the stacking penalties of damage mods and effects of proficiency.

Seriously, how did you get 450 per shot???

Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page

Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 1 post(s)
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2342	Posted - 2014.12.29 19:29:00 - [1] - Quote I find myself loving the Amarr assault with a scrambler. The ScR has great damage output, but the overheat is a great balance for it. More often than not I find myself switching to my SMG in order to finish off anything decently armor tanked. I think the ScR is balanced against armor quite nicely, save for modded controllers, which we have to live with regardless of any balance passes we do. Where I feel the ScR is unbalanced is shields. If my math is right, my proto ScR with 3 damage mods and prof 4 (saving for 5 currently) does around 450 damage to shield. There are very few shield tanks that can survive this, and it takes little effort to remove the remainder of those that do. Therefore, I propose these two changes. 1. Change all scrambler profiles to +15/-15 from +20/-20. 2. Reduce shot damage 5% (67.925 from 71.5 at proto level) The end goal of these changes is to reduce the ScR effectiveness on shield while maintaining its current armor DPS. If my math is correct, this should reduce DPS vs shields by 10%, and DPS vs armor by 0%, accomishing the end goal. AScR would also be affected by these changes, but it desperately needs help against armor tanks already, so I would only change the profile on it. This is a 5% reduction to DPS vs shields and a 5% gain vs armor. Do not go gentle into that good night; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 6046	Posted - 2014.12.29 19:33:00 - [2] - Quote A wild goon appears. Leaves a +1. Wanders off to steal beer from CCP Archduke. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 894	Posted - 2014.12.29 20:53:00 - [3] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: The end goal of these changes is to reduce the ScR effectiveness on shield while maintaining its current armor DPS. If my math is correct, this should reduce DPS vs shields by 10%, and DPS vs armor by 0%, accomishing the end goal. AScR would also be affected by these changes, but it desperately needs help against armor tanks already, so I would only change the profile on it. This is a 5% reduction to DPS vs shields and a 5% gain vs armor. This is a very good suggestion.
Sequal's Back Les Desanusseurs 42	Posted - 2014.12.29 21:15:00 - [4] - Quote This is a great proposition. I hope a dev will read this! Very good ideas like that are rare.
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property Negative-Feedback 1858	Posted - 2014.12.29 21:18:00 - [5] - Quote Only if they reduce heat buildup by an equal amount. 5% in this case. The ScR already has a pitiful amount of damage it can do per volley, about 1300. 1600 with Amassault. Compared to the other Rifles, which can output up to 2200 per mag, but usually about 1800 per mag. The role of Caldari suits is to whine on the forums.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1449	Posted - 2014.12.29 21:32:00 - [6] - Quote Yea this is cool. But i want my clip size to go back to 45. Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Give me da iskiez Gk0 Scout yay :)
Sequal's Back Les Desanusseurs 42	Posted - 2014.12.29 23:24:00 - [7] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Only if they reduce heat buildup by an equal amount. 5% in this case. The ScR already has a pitiful amount of damage it can do per volley, about 1300. 1600 with Amassault. Compared to the other Rifles, which can output up to 2200 per mag, but usually about 1800 per mag. I don't think it would be needed, right now the ScR is in a good place in term of heat management. These changes would only affect shield damage which I agree are pretty high (caldari suits are a piece of cake to kill with it, even protos). I 100% support this idea as it woulf ONLY change shield damages and not armor ones. It needs a blue tag ^^
Jacques Cayton II Kaalmayoti Warzone Control 1313	Posted - 2014.12.29 23:31:00 - [8] - Quote +1 i like We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11854	Posted - 2014.12.29 23:50:00 - [9] - Quote NO. This is as silly as someone complaining that mass drivers do too much damage to armor, and requesting that the damage profile get changed to -15/+15 instead of -20/+20. Weapons are categorized by profile types. Projectile (-15/+15), explosive (-20/+20), hybrid-rail (-10/+10), hybrid-blaster/plasma (+10/-10), and laser (+20/-20). The scrambler rifle has a laser profile, along with the laser rifle, and scrambler pistol. If we start having weapons of the same profile types having different damage profiles, then those categories just start to be meaningless. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Sequal's Back Les Desanusseurs 42	Posted - 2014.12.29 23:56:00 - [10] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: NO. This is as silly as someone complaining that mass drivers do too much damage to armor, and requesting that the damage profile get changed to -15/+15 instead of -20/+20. Weapons are categorized by profile types. Projectile (-15/+15), explosive (-20/+20), hybrid-rail (-10/+10), hybrid-blaster/plasma (+10/-10), and laser (+20/-20). The scrambler rifle has a laser profile, along with the laser rifle, and scrambler pistol. If we start having weapons of the same profile types having different damage profiles, then those categories just start to be meaningless. Sometimes you have to change some fundamentals if it's for the sake of everything else. Why would it be so bad to change this damage profile? Give me a reason in term of gameplay not "because it is the way it is".

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2350	Posted - 2014.12.30 00:05:00 - [11] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: NO. This is as silly as someone complaining that mass drivers do too much damage to armor, and requesting that the damage profile get changed to -15/+15 instead of -20/+20. Weapons are categorized by profile types. Projectile (-15/+15), explosive (-20/+20), hybrid-rail (-10/+10), hybrid-blaster/plasma (+10/-10), and laser (+20/-20). The scrambler rifle has a laser profile, along with the laser rifle, and scrambler pistol. If we start having weapons of the same profile types having different damage profiles, then those categories just start to be meaningless. 1. Balance takes preference over profiles. 2. Short range crystals deal thermal damage in addition to em damage. Thus the ScR with short range crystals would deal some thermal damage, some em dage. Since pure em is +20/-20 and pure thermal is +10/-10, then in between is +15/-15. The laser rifle is fitted with a long range crystal which deals pure em, thus +20/-20 Do not go gentle into that good night; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1654	Posted - 2014.12.30 00:25:00 - [12] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: . . I think the ScR is balanced against armor quite nicely, save for modded controllers, which we have to live with regardless of any balance passes we do. . . SCR has nicely built in anti-autofire mechanic called heat. For those short bursts - what avoiding overheat forces you to do - manually same rof can be reached and is better manageable. so all is good Pro-choice! For hazardous self-activated inertial dampeners! We want to live on the edge (((of MCC)))
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1421	Posted - 2014.12.30 02:43:00 - [13] - Quote I wouldn't run a less effective ScR or ASCR. Frankly, neither weapon strikes me as particularly good against anything other than low-HP Scouts.
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2352	Posted - 2014.12.30 02:51:00 - [14] - Quote Vitantur Nothus wrote: I wouldn't run a less effective ScR or ASCR. Frankly, neither weapon strikes me as particularly good against anything other than low-HP Scouts. Clearly you haven't faced someone who knows how to use it. Do not go gentle into that good night; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 334	Posted - 2014.12.30 02:56:00 - [15] - Quote i wouldn't agree with this because: 1) what you are suggesting is infact the tactical assault rifle... 2) the scr is the opposite of the combat rifle, and we all know that gun is very proficient in taking out armour. While it can't 1 shot it away, the amount of time it takes to charge the scrambler rifle is sufficient for the combat rifle to do more damage.... explanation: Combat rifle DPS x scr charge time is higher than SCR charge shot damage. 3) Laz0r weaponry is very efficient against shields but poor against armour, i myself too struggle to kill heavy armour tank assaults/heavies with the scr, and only use it on an amarr assault, which leads me to my 4th point. 4) The scr is the only gun in the game which suffers a huge drawback unless used specifically on the amarr assault suit. This is a huge issue and i feel it just means the weapon is a huge niche, i wish i could use it on different suits efficiently. If any changes are made, i would reduce heat buildup on the gun, reduce the amarr assault heat bonus to follow, so that the gun can fire say 20 shots at SCR LVL 5 and with an amarr assault it can fire 25 + have a clip size bonus. This in my opinion would prove much more fruitful as it would lead to suit diversity and give the amarr assault a more definite bonus given the gun's drawbacks of clip size and heat buildup. "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 14145	Posted - 2014.12.30 03:03:00 - [16] - Quote there is nothing wrong with the scrambler rifle right now, it is one of the most efficient rifles, even a tad OP. The reason I don't intend to nerf them is that they are specialty weapons and not the cause of the majority of kills. The ASCR I have been playing with to understand its flaws, and I don't get why its not used, it destroys calscouts with hipfire, it has no recoil, the best scope, the most ammo and clipsize, and heat is not really a problem. But until players start using it, we need to make it incrementally better. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound 2352	Posted - 2014.12.30 03:07:00 - [17] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there is nothing wrong with the scrambler rifle right now, it is one of the most efficient rifles, even a tad OP. The reason I don't intend to nerf them is that they are specialty weapons and not the cause of the majority of kills. The ASCR I have been playing with to understand its flaws, and I don't get why its not used, it destroys calscouts with hipfire, it has no recoil, the best scope, the most ammo and clipsize, and heat is not really a problem. But until players start using it, we need to make it incrementally better. Glad for the response. :) I have an idea fot the AScR I'll present in another thread (or here if you prefer) but a large part of the issue is the struggle to kill armor. Again this does have to do with armor meta, but I think my idea could see it get more use, or at least provide a better baseline to judge from. Do not go gentle into that good night; Rage, rage against the dying of the light.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 334	Posted - 2014.12.30 03:08:00 - [18] - Quote From recent use the ASCR is actually perfect in terms of performance. it is a gun that can actually be used by other suits, unlike the SCR, which suffers from heavy heat buildup. "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
Vitantur Nothus Nos Nothi 1421	Posted - 2014.12.30 04:05:00 - [19] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there is nothing wrong with the scrambler rifle right now, it is one of the most efficient rifles, even a tad OP. The reason I don't intend to nerf them is that they are specialty weapons and not the cause of the majority of kills. The ASCR I have been playing with to understand its flaws, and I don't get why its not used, it destroys calscouts with hipfire, it has no recoil, the best scope, the most ammo and clipsize, and heat is not really a problem. But until players start using it, we need to make it incrementally better. Recommend a slight reduction to ASCR muzzle flash.
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 770	Posted - 2014.12.30 04:31:00 - [20] - Quote increased ROF the longer you fire it? kinda like a laser rifle but instead of increased damage it would shoot faster that would let it deal better damage to armor wouldnt it? you could set it up so that the weapon overheats right after a full clip is fired (on the amarr assault suit), so you could quickly dump the clip on a heavy suit if you needed to

Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4891	Posted - 2014.12.30 04:33:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there is nothing wrong with the scrambler rifle right now, it is one of the most efficient rifles, even a tad OP. The reason I don't intend to nerf them is that they are specialty weapons and not the cause of the majority of kills. The ASCR I have been playing with to understand its flaws, and I don't get why its not used, it destroys calscouts with hipfire, it has no recoil, the best scope, the most ammo and clipsize, and heat is not really a problem. But until players start using it, we need to make it incrementally better. The Ascr is fine since the buff it's just the high alpha of the Scr is alot more rewarding. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11863	Posted - 2014.12.30 04:34:00 - [22] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: NO. This is as silly as someone complaining that mass drivers do too much damage to armor, and requesting that the damage profile get changed to -15/+15 instead of -20/+20. Weapons are categorized by profile types. Projectile (-15/+15), explosive (-20/+20), hybrid-rail (-10/+10), hybrid-blaster/plasma (+10/-10), and laser (+20/-20). The scrambler rifle has a laser profile, along with the laser rifle, and scrambler pistol. If we start having weapons of the same profile types having different damage profiles, then those categories just start to be meaningless. 1. Balance takes preference over profiles. 2. Short range crystals deal thermal damage in addition to em damage. Thus the ScR with short range crystals would deal some thermal damage, some em dage. Since pure em is +20/-20 and pure thermal is +10/-10, then in between is +15/-15. The laser rifle is fitted with a long range crystal which deals pure em, thus +20/-20 Nothing suggests a damage reduction is needed, or that the damage profile needs changing. A prototype SCR with prof 4, and 3 complex damage mod does 113 damage to shields. Not even close to to 450 A prototype tac AR with prof 4, and 3 complex damage mod does 106 damage to shields. Not much of a difference. I have no idea how you got 450. Use protofits if you can't calculate the stacking penalties of damage mods and effects of proficiency. Seriously, how did you get 450 per shot??? Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 1219	Posted - 2014.12.30 04:38:00 - [23] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: it has no recoil I really don't understand this, because it really does have a ton of recoil. Or maybe I'm conflating recoil/kick, but it definitely has a bunch of one. Its dispersion is definitely reasonable, but I just see people going on about how the AScR has no recoil when it definitelu kicks like a mule if you let it. Alt of Halla Murr. Sentinel.
Aeon Amadi Chimera Core 7634	Posted - 2014.12.30 05:03:00 - [24] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there is nothing wrong with the scrambler rifle right now, it is one of the most efficient rifles, even a tad OP. The reason I don't intend to nerf them is that they are specialty weapons and not the cause of the majority of kills. The ASCR I have been playing with to understand its flaws, and I don't get why its not used, it destroys calscouts with hipfire, it has no recoil, the best scope, the most ammo and clipsize, and heat is not really a problem. But until players start using it, we need to make it incrementally better. Just wait a bit. S'all I will say. If players are claiming that Minmatar Assaults are going to be the next FotM and that their strafe speed is too high, then the Scrambler rifles will be a good counter to that. Just give it time. Aeon's Links In an effort to be "positive" I will agree to everything CCP does.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game RUST415 335	Posted - 2014.12.30 05:03:00 - [25] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: NO. This is as silly as someone complaining that mass drivers do too much damage to armor, and requesting that the damage profile get changed to -15/+15 instead of -20/+20. Weapons are categorized by profile types. Projectile (-15/+15), explosive (-20/+20), hybrid-rail (-10/+10), hybrid-blaster/plasma (+10/-10), and laser (+20/-20). The scrambler rifle has a laser profile, along with the laser rifle, and scrambler pistol. If we start having weapons of the same profile types having different damage profiles, then those categories just start to be meaningless. 1. Balance takes preference over profiles. 2. Short range crystals deal thermal damage in addition to em damage. Thus the ScR with short range crystals would deal some thermal damage, some em dage. Since pure em is +20/-20 and pure thermal is +10/-10, then in between is +15/-15. The laser rifle is fitted with a long range crystal which deals pure em, thus +20/-20 Nothing suggests a damage reduction is needed, or that the damage profile needs changing. A prototype SCR with prof 4, and 3 complex damage mod does 113 damage to shields. Not even close to to 450 A prototype tac AR with prof 4, and 3 complex damage mod does 106 damage to shields. Not much of a difference. I have no idea how you got 450. Use protofits if you can't calculate the stacking penalties of damage mods and effects of proficiency. Seriously, how did you get 450 per shot??? lol kage... 4 realz? you high? charge shot "If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014
All Gucci T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 8	Posted - 2014.12.30 05:33:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there is nothing wrong with the scrambler rifle right now, it is one of the most efficient rifles, even a tad OP. The reason I don't intend to nerf them is that they are specialty weapons and not the cause of the majority of kills. The ASCR I have been playing with to understand its flaws, and I don't get why its not used, it destroys calscouts with hipfire, it has no recoil, the best scope, the most ammo and clipsize, and heat is not really a problem. But until players start using it, we need to make it incrementally better. Do you even scramble ? yea its fine if you have two complex damage mods on....you ever tried to scramble a heavy with no damage mods? Emperor Gucci
DeadlyAztec11 Ostrakon Agency 6649	Posted - 2014.12.30 05:34:00 - [27] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there is nothing wrong with the scrambler rifle right now, it is one of the most efficient rifles, even a tad OP. The reason I don't intend to nerf them is that they are specialty weapons and not the cause of the majority of kills. The ASCR I have been playing with to understand its flaws, and I don't get why its not used, it destroys calscouts with hipfire, it has no recoil, the best scope, the most ammo and clipsize, and heat is not really a problem. But until players start using it, we need to make it incrementally better. No Rattati! The ASCR is fine, the only reason people don't use it is because of its wack recoil. The recoil is only visual anyways it doesn't represent where the bolts go at all. Put your flags up in the sky. And wave them side to side. Show the world where you're from. Show the world we are one.
Sir Dukey Murphys-Law General Tso's Alliance 1428	Posted - 2014.12.30 05:57:00 - [28] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there is nothing wrong with the scrambler rifle right now, it is one of the most efficient rifles, even a tad OP. The reason I don't intend to nerf them is that they are specialty weapons and not the cause of the majority of kills. The ASCR I have been playing with to understand its flaws, and I don't get why its not used, it destroys calscouts with hipfire, it has no recoil, the best scope, the most ammo and clipsize, and heat is not really a problem. But until players start using it, we need to make it incrementally better. It has worse DPS than an Assault Rifle. It kicks more than Assault Rifle. That -20% armor though. Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3638	Posted - 2014.12.30 06:00:00 - [29] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I find myself loving the Amarr assault with a scrambler. The ScR has great damage output, but the overheat is a great balance for it. More often than not I find myself switching to my SMG in order to finish off anything decently armor tanked. I think the ScR is balanced against armor quite nicely, save for modded controllers, which we have to live with regardless of any balance passes we do. Where I feel the ScR is unbalanced is shields. If my math is right, my proto ScR with 3 damage mods and prof 4 (saving for 5 currently) does around 450 damage to shield. There are very few shield tanks that can survive this, and it takes little effort to remove the remainder of those that do. Therefore, I propose these two changes. 1. Change all scrambler profiles to +15/-15 from +20/-20. 2. Reduce shot damage 5% (67.925 from 71.5 at proto level) The end goal of these changes is to reduce the ScR effectiveness on shield while maintaining its current armor DPS. If my math is correct, this should reduce DPS vs shields by 10%, and DPS vs armor by 0%, accomishing the end goal. AScR would also be affected by these changes, but it desperately needs help against armor tanks already, so I would only change the profile on it. This is a 5% reduction to DPS vs shields and a 5% gain vs armor. Good man.... +1 Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3639	Posted - 2014.12.30 06:10:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: there is nothing wrong with the scrambler rifle right now, it is one of the most efficient rifles, even a tad OP. The reason I don't intend to nerf them is that they are specialty weapons and not the cause of the majority of kills. The ASCR I have been playing with to understand its flaws, and I don't get why its not used, it destroys calscouts with hipfire, it has no recoil, the best scope, the most ammo and clipsize, and heat is not really a problem. But until players start using it, we need to make it incrementally better. Just because it isn't used as often as another doesn' t mean that it sucks. If you say, it's a tad OP, then it should be nerfed "a tad". I realize you're a gallente guy and the scr doesn't affect you like it does to caldari mercs. But that gun needs to be tweaked. People probably don't use it as much because they probably don't have the amarr assault suit for it. And the amarr suit isn't as appealing as the min or the gal.....who knows. But when I have 600 shields, and I lose it almost as fast as if I've been fluxed and I don't have a weapon that deals that sort of damage to armor, then something is wrong. nerf the Scr or introduce a gun that does the same sort of damage to armor. I'm pretty sure if there was a gun that would make your armor disappear like a scr rifle does to shields, you would nerf it immediately. Edit: Reading the other posts in this thread....I'm not even going to bother. I feel like I'm playing another game than everyone else. I'm out this thread. Shield tanking is hard mode /period. > Check RND out here



Pages: [1] 2 3 4 :: one page
First page \| Previous page \| Next page \| Last page

Pokemon master and Tekken Lord

Give me da iskiez

Gk0 Scout yay :)

"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

"If there is a strafe nerf in this game, remove hit detection"- manboar 2014

Acquire Currency, Disregard Female Canis lupus familiaris