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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2969
   |
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:32:00 -
[91] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Not everyone lags as hard as you do Gav 
1v1 me bruh!!!!!11!!!!one!!!
LOL 
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
|
Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
8375
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:33:00 -
[92] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
question....can you fit dual dmg mods on a maddy?
No not even with a Complex CPU Extender and a Basic Turret. Unless you want to sacrifice your entire armour tank capacity. @ Ghost- Do it your heathen dog! I'd love to argue shield vs Armour, Amarr vs Minmatar semantics...but prepare for me to giggle every time I talk about crusading for stuff, God, and slavery. IRL I sometimes cannot take it all seriously.
Who else should we invite to the Armor vs Shield Dream Team?
>Cat Merc
>Ghost Kaisar
>True Adamance
We have 3 slots open people. Jump on it.
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
|
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2165
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:34:00 -
[93] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I mean, how is a cal heavy supposed to compete cal heavies are beast. The hmg does -15% damage to shields. Ermmm... Why does that matter? Unless your shooting yourself, that is a useless point. ScR and Flux nades whoop CalSent ass. He means that this makes Cal Sentinels excellent sentinel busters.
Da.
Then that raises the question....
WHY ARENT YOU PLAY A SENTINEL AS A SENTINEL?
/smirk
I Live for Tears
|
Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
8375
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:34:00 -
[94] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:The issue with Shields is that I sacrifice a great deal to capitalize on my strength (regen)
I have to sacrifice all my major armor buffer to get a very good Regen.
Armor suits have more versatility in that they already have their buffer built in to how their suit is designed to play. I could slap MORE buffer, in the way of shields, or I can add damage, or add melee, or add the other high mods.
To do the same, I have to rely on my shields, which then regen too slowly to be able to rapidly reengage following a fight. I clear a area out of guys, wait for shields to recharge before rushing the last bit of terrain, and they've already spawned back.
That, and, 1 v 1, a pure armor suit will likely win every time. They have more buffer compared to pure shield, and they have the added damage from the free highs.
Nothing in the lows really provide an incentive to fit shield suits for hit and run, besides just running. And then, I lose a good deal for having longer recharge delays for that speed.
Balancing PURE shields and PURE armor will be VERY hard. Both bricked? And their pretty equal.
Its just PURELY, armor is inherently better. You shouldn't be armour tanking on a shield suit anyway. The one thing I feel Shield tankers forget is the utility of Shields. Firstly no mobility penalties for respectable EHP values, you won't hit 1000 EHP but you will easily get around 700-800, respectable regenerative capacity, and access to utility modules from fitting enhancer, biotic enhancers, hacking modules, scanning modules. That is versatility.
Min Assault is possibly the best assault in the game because of this.
It has a fantastic slot layout and its base speed/stamina regen works wonders. It is unbelievably flexible, running deadly shield and armor fits.
Heck, I say that for most Minmatar suits. Outside of the scout and Logi, every suit can either be shield, or armor tanked. Its half the reason why I love all their suits.
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
|
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2165
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:35:00 -
[95] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
question....can you fit dual dmg mods on a maddy?
No not even with a Complex CPU Extender and a Basic Turret. Unless you want to sacrifice your entire armour tank capacity. @ Ghost- Do it your heathen dog! I'd love to argue shield vs Armour, Amarr vs Minmatar semantics...but prepare for me to giggle every time I talk about crusading for stuff, God, and slavery. IRL I sometimes cannot take it all seriously. Who else should we invite to the Armor vs Shield Dream Team? >Cat Merc >Ghost Kaisar >True Adamance We have 3 slots open people. Jump on it.
I would say me, but I dont quite know the TZ thats on.
And, I may be on and off randomly. I haz life.
I Live for Tears
|
Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
8375
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:36:00 -
[96] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Not everyone lags as hard as you do Gav 1v1 me bruh!!!!!11!!!!one!!! LOL
BRB Grabbing my Intervention
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2969
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:36:00 -
[97] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
question....can you fit dual dmg mods on a maddy?
No not even with a Complex CPU Extender and a Basic Turret. Unless you want to sacrifice your entire armour tank capacity. @ Ghost- Do it your heathen dog! I'd love to argue shield vs Armour, Amarr vs Minmatar semantics...but prepare for me to giggle every time I talk about crusading for stuff, God, and slavery. IRL I sometimes cannot take it all seriously. Who else should we invite to the Armor vs Shield Dream Team? >Cat Merc >Ghost Kaisar >True Adamance We have 3 slots open people. Jump on it.
ME
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
|
Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
8375
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:37:00 -
[98] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
question....can you fit dual dmg mods on a maddy?
No not even with a Complex CPU Extender and a Basic Turret. Unless you want to sacrifice your entire armour tank capacity. @ Ghost- Do it your heathen dog! I'd love to argue shield vs Armour, Amarr vs Minmatar semantics...but prepare for me to giggle every time I talk about crusading for stuff, God, and slavery. IRL I sometimes cannot take it all seriously. Who else should we invite to the Armor vs Shield Dream Team? >Cat Merc >Ghost Kaisar >True Adamance We have 3 slots open people. Jump on it. I would say me, but I dont quite know the TZ thats on. And, I may be on and off randomly. I haz life.
I'll just make a custom chat group and invite you all with mails.
Hop on together whenever we notice that a few of us are on.
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13460
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:37:00 -
[99] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Not everyone lags as hard as you do Gav 1v1 me bruh!!!!!11!!!!one!!! LOL BRB Grabbing my Intervention
BRB Grabbing my AWP
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2969
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:38:00 -
[100] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:Not everyone lags as hard as you do Gav 1v1 me bruh!!!!!11!!!!one!!! LOL BRB Grabbing my Intervention
This time you can't blame it on lag 
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
|
|
|
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2165
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:38:00 -
[101] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
question....can you fit dual dmg mods on a maddy?
No not even with a Complex CPU Extender and a Basic Turret. Unless you want to sacrifice your entire armour tank capacity. @ Ghost- Do it your heathen dog! I'd love to argue shield vs Armour, Amarr vs Minmatar semantics...but prepare for me to giggle every time I talk about crusading for stuff, God, and slavery. IRL I sometimes cannot take it all seriously. Who else should we invite to the Armor vs Shield Dream Team? >Cat Merc >Ghost Kaisar >True Adamance We have 3 slots open people. Jump on it. I would say me, but I dont quite know the TZ thats on. And, I may be on and off randomly. I haz life. I'll just make a custom chat group and invite you all with mails. Hop on together whenever we notice that a few of us are on.
Nice.
I Live for Tears
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13462
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:39:00 -
[102] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:The issue with Shields is that I sacrifice a great deal to capitalize on my strength (regen)
I have to sacrifice all my major armor buffer to get a very good Regen.
Armor suits have more versatility in that they already have their buffer built in to how their suit is designed to play. I could slap MORE buffer, in the way of shields, or I can add damage, or add melee, or add the other high mods.
To do the same, I have to rely on my shields, which then regen too slowly to be able to rapidly reengage following a fight. I clear a area out of guys, wait for shields to recharge before rushing the last bit of terrain, and they've already spawned back.
That, and, 1 v 1, a pure armor suit will likely win every time. They have more buffer compared to pure shield, and they have the added damage from the free highs.
Nothing in the lows really provide an incentive to fit shield suits for hit and run, besides just running. And then, I lose a good deal for having longer recharge delays for that speed.
Balancing PURE shields and PURE armor will be VERY hard. Both bricked? And their pretty equal.
Its just PURELY, armor is inherently better. You shouldn't be armour tanking on a shield suit anyway. The one thing I feel Shield tankers forget is the utility of Shields. Firstly no mobility penalties for respectable EHP values, you won't hit 1000 EHP but you will easily get around 700-800, respectable regenerative capacity, and access to utility modules from fitting enhancer, biotic enhancers, hacking modules, scanning modules. That is versatility. Min Assault is possibly the best assault in the game because of this. It has a fantastic slot layout and its base speed/stamina regen works wonders. It is unbelievably flexible, running deadly shield and armor fits. Heck, I say that for most Minmatar suits. Outside of the scout and Logi, every suit can either be shield, or armor tanked. Its half the reason why I love all their suits.
^^^^^
I wish other race's fits were as varied as the Winmatar.
Heck, within 5 minutes I figured out cookie cutter fits for the Gal Assault and Cal Assault.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2970
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:39:00 -
[103] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
question....can you fit dual dmg mods on a maddy?
No not even with a Complex CPU Extender and a Basic Turret. Unless you want to sacrifice your entire armour tank capacity. @ Ghost- Do it your heathen dog! I'd love to argue shield vs Armour, Amarr vs Minmatar semantics...but prepare for me to giggle every time I talk about crusading for stuff, God, and slavery. IRL I sometimes cannot take it all seriously. Who else should we invite to the Armor vs Shield Dream Team? >Cat Merc >Ghost Kaisar >True Adamance We have 3 slots open people. Jump on it. I would say me, but I dont quite know the TZ thats on. And, I may be on and off randomly. I haz life. I'll just make a custom chat group and invite you all with mails. Hop on together whenever we notice that a few of us are on.
Tommorrow Ill be on.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
|
Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2165
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:40:00 -
[104] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:The issue with Shields is that I sacrifice a great deal to capitalize on my strength (regen)
I have to sacrifice all my major armor buffer to get a very good Regen.
Armor suits have more versatility in that they already have their buffer built in to how their suit is designed to play. I could slap MORE buffer, in the way of shields, or I can add damage, or add melee, or add the other high mods.
To do the same, I have to rely on my shields, which then regen too slowly to be able to rapidly reengage following a fight. I clear a area out of guys, wait for shields to recharge before rushing the last bit of terrain, and they've already spawned back.
That, and, 1 v 1, a pure armor suit will likely win every time. They have more buffer compared to pure shield, and they have the added damage from the free highs.
Nothing in the lows really provide an incentive to fit shield suits for hit and run, besides just running. And then, I lose a good deal for having longer recharge delays for that speed.
Balancing PURE shields and PURE armor will be VERY hard. Both bricked? And their pretty equal.
Its just PURELY, armor is inherently better. You shouldn't be armour tanking on a shield suit anyway. The one thing I feel Shield tankers forget is the utility of Shields. Firstly no mobility penalties for respectable EHP values, you won't hit 1000 EHP but you will easily get around 700-800, respectable regenerative capacity, and access to utility modules from fitting enhancer, biotic enhancers, hacking modules, scanning modules. That is versatility.
No. RONG.
You get 700-800 eHP on proto suits.
On a cheap Standard suit, If you run pure shield, you end up w/ 600 eHP. W/ Capped out HP skills. Whereas a Bricked shield suit could reach a hundred HP higher, giving it a solid lead in CQC, or 1 v 1 fights. A Armor Suit is inherently higher still.
That Regen is useful, but as I said, capitalizing on regen loses a great deal of versatility in shield suits, making them one trick ponies. You have to lose your lows to make a good frontline shield suit, if you don't touch armor.
You NEED better regen to make a shield great, because they lose eHP compared to armor, and you need to source that regen not only from your famed "utility" slots, but you also have to set aside a slot or two for boosting your general recharge rate (HP/s) from your highs, reducing your options for buffer more.
Maybe this is less an issue of shields being bad, and more a place of saying standard caldari shield suits are bad. Ish. Not really. Like I said, bricks are always great, and even then, the regen is still good, but it still isn't as good as armor, considering the current meta of maps.
Have I ever told you how much the Maps are favoring high eHP suits lately?
I Live for Tears
|
Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
8378
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:40:00 -
[105] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:The issue with Shields is that I sacrifice a great deal to capitalize on my strength (regen)
I have to sacrifice all my major armor buffer to get a very good Regen.
Armor suits have more versatility in that they already have their buffer built in to how their suit is designed to play. I could slap MORE buffer, in the way of shields, or I can add damage, or add melee, or add the other high mods.
To do the same, I have to rely on my shields, which then regen too slowly to be able to rapidly reengage following a fight. I clear a area out of guys, wait for shields to recharge before rushing the last bit of terrain, and they've already spawned back.
That, and, 1 v 1, a pure armor suit will likely win every time. They have more buffer compared to pure shield, and they have the added damage from the free highs.
Nothing in the lows really provide an incentive to fit shield suits for hit and run, besides just running. And then, I lose a good deal for having longer recharge delays for that speed.
Balancing PURE shields and PURE armor will be VERY hard. Both bricked? And their pretty equal.
Its just PURELY, armor is inherently better. You shouldn't be armour tanking on a shield suit anyway. The one thing I feel Shield tankers forget is the utility of Shields. Firstly no mobility penalties for respectable EHP values, you won't hit 1000 EHP but you will easily get around 700-800, respectable regenerative capacity, and access to utility modules from fitting enhancer, biotic enhancers, hacking modules, scanning modules. That is versatility. Min Assault is possibly the best assault in the game because of this. It has a fantastic slot layout and its base speed/stamina regen works wonders. It is unbelievably flexible, running deadly shield and armor fits. Heck, I say that for most Minmatar suits. Outside of the scout and Logi, every suit can either be shield, or armor tanked. Its half the reason why I love all their suits. ^^^^^ I wish other race's fits were as varied as the Winmatar. Heck, within a 5 minutes I figured out cookie cutter fits for the Gal Assault and Cal Assault.
Check the main page of proto fits.
I named a fit after you. I want someone to try my Hybrid Tanked Gal Assault.
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
|
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
442
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:41:00 -
[106] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I mean, how is a cal heavy supposed to survive Cal heavies are the red headed step children. Sentinels have no reason to do anything but brick HP, and that's where armor excels. They need their own treatment, and it doesn't mean that armor on all classes is better.
I kinda disagree with this. My Sents are Minmatar and Cal. My Min is a flank speed heavy. Relatively squishy made for sneaking around and Burst HMGing the guy in the back before running away.
My frontline sent is a Cal. And he works. I can't trade blows with a gal or amarr by any means -- but I can warfighter all day. A few obstacles here and there and I am super hard to kill. With a 3 second delay on recharge, a less than 1 second delay on depleted, and 45+ a sec back I am pretty good as long as I have a box or pillar to jump behind. Wear them down...
It's up to battle doctrine and yes, even Heavies, can skirmish. |
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13462
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:43:00 -
[107] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:The issue with Shields is that I sacrifice a great deal to capitalize on my strength (regen)
I have to sacrifice all my major armor buffer to get a very good Regen.
Armor suits have more versatility in that they already have their buffer built in to how their suit is designed to play. I could slap MORE buffer, in the way of shields, or I can add damage, or add melee, or add the other high mods.
To do the same, I have to rely on my shields, which then regen too slowly to be able to rapidly reengage following a fight. I clear a area out of guys, wait for shields to recharge before rushing the last bit of terrain, and they've already spawned back.
That, and, 1 v 1, a pure armor suit will likely win every time. They have more buffer compared to pure shield, and they have the added damage from the free highs.
Nothing in the lows really provide an incentive to fit shield suits for hit and run, besides just running. And then, I lose a good deal for having longer recharge delays for that speed.
Balancing PURE shields and PURE armor will be VERY hard. Both bricked? And their pretty equal.
Its just PURELY, armor is inherently better. You shouldn't be armour tanking on a shield suit anyway. The one thing I feel Shield tankers forget is the utility of Shields. Firstly no mobility penalties for respectable EHP values, you won't hit 1000 EHP but you will easily get around 700-800, respectable regenerative capacity, and access to utility modules from fitting enhancer, biotic enhancers, hacking modules, scanning modules. That is versatility. No. RONG. You get 700-800 eHP on proto suits. On a cheap Standard suit, If you run pure shield, you end up w/ 600 eHP. W/ Capped out HP skills. Whereas a Bricked shield suit could reach a hundred HP higher, giving it a solid lead in CQC, or 1 v 1 fights. A Armor Suit is inherently higher still. That Regen is useful, but as I said, capitalizing on regen loses a great deal of versatility in shield suits, making them one trick ponies. You have to lose your lows to make a good frontline shield suit, if you don't touch armor. You NEED better regen to make a shield great, because they lose eHP compared to armor, and you need to source that regen not only from your famed "utility" slots, but you also have to set aside a slot or two for boosting your general recharge rate (HP/s), reducing your options for buffer more. Maybe this is less an issue of shields being bad, and more a place of saying standard caldari shield suits are bad. Ish. Not really. Like I said, bricks are always great, and even then, the regen is still good, but it still isn't as good as armor, considering the current meta of maps. Have I ever told you how much the Maps are favoring high eHP suits lately?
Have you noticed that STD repairers give a very low amount of HP/s?
Have you noticed that the base regen between STD and PRO suits on shields is the same?
STD armor suits might have more HP than STD shield suits, but they are VERY inferior in terms of regen.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
|
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15257
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:43:00 -
[108] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:The issue with Shields is that I sacrifice a great deal to capitalize on my strength (regen)
I have to sacrifice all my major armor buffer to get a very good Regen.
Armor suits have more versatility in that they already have their buffer built in to how their suit is designed to play. I could slap MORE buffer, in the way of shields, or I can add damage, or add melee, or add the other high mods.
To do the same, I have to rely on my shields, which then regen too slowly to be able to rapidly reengage following a fight. I clear a area out of guys, wait for shields to recharge before rushing the last bit of terrain, and they've already spawned back.
That, and, 1 v 1, a pure armor suit will likely win every time. They have more buffer compared to pure shield, and they have the added damage from the free highs.
Nothing in the lows really provide an incentive to fit shield suits for hit and run, besides just running. And then, I lose a good deal for having longer recharge delays for that speed.
Balancing PURE shields and PURE armor will be VERY hard. Both bricked? And their pretty equal.
Its just PURELY, armor is inherently better. You shouldn't be armour tanking on a shield suit anyway. The one thing I feel Shield tankers forget is the utility of Shields. Firstly no mobility penalties for respectable EHP values, you won't hit 1000 EHP but you will easily get around 700-800, respectable regenerative capacity, and access to utility modules from fitting enhancer, biotic enhancers, hacking modules, scanning modules. That is versatility. Min Assault is possibly the best assault in the game because of this. It has a fantastic slot layout and its base speed/stamina regen works wonders. It is unbelievably flexible, running deadly shield and armor fits. Heck, I say that for most Minmatar suits. Outside of the scout and Logi, every suit can either be shield, or armor tanked. Its half the reason why I love all their suits.
I would argue the same thing. The Minmatar Assault, and I say this off the record, is a lovely frame, no aesthetically, but statistically.
4 highs / 4 lows
Built in Hack Bonus (very small), High mobility, balanced Stats making it basically suited for whatever doctrine I want to roll at any time.
Now "IF" I were hypothetically to have an alt on which I test things I cannot on True Adamance this alt certainly would not happen to have Minmatar Assault V.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2970
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:45:00 -
[109] - Quote
PSA: shorten quotes to the bare minimum. Its painful to read.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13462
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:47:00 -
[110] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:
Check the main page of proto fits.
I named a fit after you. I want someone to try my Hybrid Tanked Gal Assault.
It's an interesting fit I'll give you that.
Back when armor was terribad, I used to rely on my shields to absorb damage and then take cover when my armor started to take damage, because the regen was pitiful on armor.
With this fit the delay is 3/4.5, which might make this play style a thing again.
I'll check it out.
Not dying instantly whenever a combat rifle decides to show up does sound appealing.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
|
|
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15257
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:47:00 -
[111] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:The issue with Shields is that I sacrifice a great deal to capitalize on my strength (regen)
I have to sacrifice all my major armor buffer to get a very good Regen.
Armor suits have more versatility in that they already have their buffer built in to how their suit is designed to play. I could slap MORE buffer, in the way of shields, or I can add damage, or add melee, or add the other high mods.
To do the same, I have to rely on my shields, which then regen too slowly to be able to rapidly reengage following a fight. I clear a area out of guys, wait for shields to recharge before rushing the last bit of terrain, and they've already spawned back.
That, and, 1 v 1, a pure armor suit will likely win every time. They have more buffer compared to pure shield, and they have the added damage from the free highs.
Nothing in the lows really provide an incentive to fit shield suits for hit and run, besides just running. And then, I lose a good deal for having longer recharge delays for that speed.
Balancing PURE shields and PURE armor will be VERY hard. Both bricked? And their pretty equal.
Its just PURELY, armor is inherently better. You shouldn't be armour tanking on a shield suit anyway. The one thing I feel Shield tankers forget is the utility of Shields. Firstly no mobility penalties for respectable EHP values, you won't hit 1000 EHP but you will easily get around 700-800, respectable regenerative capacity, and access to utility modules from fitting enhancer, biotic enhancers, hacking modules, scanning modules. That is versatility. No. RONG. You get 700-800 eHP on proto suits. On a cheap Standard suit, If you run pure shield, you end up w/ 600 eHP. W/ Capped out HP skills. Whereas a Bricked shield suit could reach a hundred HP higher, giving it a solid lead in CQC, or 1 v 1 fights. A Armor Suit is inherently higher still. That Regen is useful, but as I said, capitalizing on regen loses a great deal of versatility in shield suits, making them one trick ponies. You have to lose your lows to make a good frontline shield suit, if you don't touch armor. You NEED better regen to make a shield great, because they lose eHP compared to armor, and you need to source that regen not only from your famed "utility" slots, but you also have to set aside a slot or two for boosting your general recharge rate (HP/s) from your highs, reducing your options for buffer more. Maybe this is less an issue of shields being bad, and more a place of saying standard caldari shield suits are bad. Ish. Not really. Like I said, bricks are always great, and even then, the regen is still good, but it still isn't as good as armor, considering the current meta of maps. Have I ever told you how much the Maps are favoring high eHP suits lately?
My low tier Armour Suits also suffer lesser EHP values 630 at standard level.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
8381
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:49:00 -
[112] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:
Check the main page of proto fits.
I named a fit after you. I want someone to try my Hybrid Tanked Gal Assault.
It's an interesting fit I'll give you that. Back when armor was terribad, I used to rely on my shields to absorb damage and then take cover when my armor started to take damage, because the regen was pitiful on armor. With this fit the delay is 3/4.5, which might make this play style a thing again. I'll check it out. Not dying instantly whenever a combat rifle decides to show up does sound appealing.
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2165
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:53:00 -
[113] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:The issue with Shields is that I sacrifice a great deal to capitalize on my strength (regen)
I have to sacrifice all my major armor buffer to get a very good Regen.
Armor suits have more versatility in that they already have their buffer built in to how their suit is designed to play. I could slap MORE buffer, in the way of shields, or I can add damage, or add melee, or add the other high mods.
To do the same, I have to rely on my shields, which then regen too slowly to be able to rapidly reengage following a fight. I clear a area out of guys, wait for shields to recharge before rushing the last bit of terrain, and they've already spawned back.
That, and, 1 v 1, a pure armor suit will likely win every time. They have more buffer compared to pure shield, and they have the added damage from the free highs.
Nothing in the lows really provide an incentive to fit shield suits for hit and run, besides just running. And then, I lose a good deal for having longer recharge delays for that speed.
Balancing PURE shields and PURE armor will be VERY hard. Both bricked? And their pretty equal.
Its just PURELY, armor is inherently better. You shouldn't be armour tanking on a shield suit anyway. The one thing I feel Shield tankers forget is the utility of Shields. Firstly no mobility penalties for respectable EHP values, you won't hit 1000 EHP but you will easily get around 700-800, respectable regenerative capacity, and access to utility modules from fitting enhancer, biotic enhancers, hacking modules, scanning modules. That is versatility. No. RONG. You get 700-800 eHP on proto suits. On a cheap Standard suit, If you run pure shield, you end up w/ 600 eHP. W/ Capped out HP skills. Whereas a Bricked shield suit could reach a hundred HP higher, giving it a solid lead in CQC, or 1 v 1 fights. A Armor Suit is inherently higher still. That Regen is useful, but as I said, capitalizing on regen loses a great deal of versatility in shield suits, making them one trick ponies. You have to lose your lows to make a good frontline shield suit, if you don't touch armor. You NEED better regen to make a shield great, because they lose eHP compared to armor, and you need to source that regen not only from your famed "utility" slots, but you also have to set aside a slot or two for boosting your general recharge rate (HP/s), reducing your options for buffer more. Maybe this is less an issue of shields being bad, and more a place of saying standard caldari shield suits are bad. Ish. Not really. Like I said, bricks are always great, and even then, the regen is still good, but it still isn't as good as armor, considering the current meta of maps. Have I ever told you how much the Maps are favoring high eHP suits lately? Have you noticed that STD repairers give a very low amount of HP/s? Have you noticed that the base regen between STD and PRO suits on shields is the same? STD armor suits might have more HP than STD shield suits, but they are VERY inferior in terms of regen.
Well, maybe I should have said that I used maxed gear in this. Sorry. Maxed reppers are ok, and even then, a Comp reactive I something I always have on one of my fits. Standard gear is really crummy
But, even at that, at least the armor would survive to rep another day. Not trying to argue w/ the great Cat Merc (murrow), But Armor also has a ton of perks shield doesn't
- Triage Hives
- Repair Tools
- Needles
Armor gets a ton more support from logis then shield does. As in all the support. A Armor suit may not even have to worry about regen, it may have a triage hive in its pocket ready to throw down, or a buddy w/ a rep tool.
Of course, you are right in that solo armor suits vs solo shield suits lose because of the lack of regen.
I Live for Tears
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Meeko Fent
Kirkinen Risk Control
Caldari State
2165
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:53:00 -
[114] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:The issue with Shields is that I sacrifice a great deal to capitalize on my strength (regen)
I have to sacrifice all my major armor buffer to get a very good Regen.
Armor suits have more versatility in that they already have their buffer built in to how their suit is designed to play. I could slap MORE buffer, in the way of shields, or I can add damage, or add melee, or add the other high mods.
To do the same, I have to rely on my shields, which then regen too slowly to be able to rapidly reengage following a fight. I clear a area out of guys, wait for shields to recharge before rushing the last bit of terrain, and they've already spawned back.
That, and, 1 v 1, a pure armor suit will likely win every time. They have more buffer compared to pure shield, and they have the added damage from the free highs.
Nothing in the lows really provide an incentive to fit shield suits for hit and run, besides just running. And then, I lose a good deal for having longer recharge delays for that speed.
Balancing PURE shields and PURE armor will be VERY hard. Both bricked? And their pretty equal.
Its just PURELY, armor is inherently better. You shouldn't be armour tanking on a shield suit anyway. The one thing I feel Shield tankers forget is the utility of Shields. Firstly no mobility penalties for respectable EHP values, you won't hit 1000 EHP but you will easily get around 700-800, respectable regenerative capacity, and access to utility modules from fitting enhancer, biotic enhancers, hacking modules, scanning modules. That is versatility. No. RONG. You get 700-800 eHP on proto suits. On a cheap Standard suit, If you run pure shield, you end up w/ 600 eHP. W/ Capped out HP skills. Whereas a Bricked shield suit could reach a hundred HP higher, giving it a solid lead in CQC, or 1 v 1 fights. A Armor Suit is inherently higher still. That Regen is useful, but as I said, capitalizing on regen loses a great deal of versatility in shield suits, making them one trick ponies. You have to lose your lows to make a good frontline shield suit, if you don't touch armor. You NEED better regen to make a shield great, because they lose eHP compared to armor, and you need to source that regen not only from your famed "utility" slots, but you also have to set aside a slot or two for boosting your general recharge rate (HP/s) from your highs, reducing your options for buffer more. Maybe this is less an issue of shields being bad, and more a place of saying standard caldari shield suits are bad. Ish. Not really. Like I said, bricks are always great, and even then, the regen is still good, but it still isn't as good as armor, considering the current meta of maps. Have I ever told you how much the Maps are favoring high eHP suits lately? My low tier Armour Suits also suffer lesser EHP values 630 at standard level.
Wat.
What did you do to it man?
I Live for Tears
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13463
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:56:00 -
[115] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:Well, maybe I should have said that I used maxed gear in this. Sorry. Maxed reppers are ok, and even then, a Comp reactive I something I always have on one of my fits. Standard gear is really crummy But, even at that, at least the armor would survive to rep another day. Not trying to argue w/ the great Cat Merc (murrow), But Armor also has a ton of perks shield doesn't
- Triage Hives
- Repair Tools
- Needles
Armor gets a ton more support from logis then shield does. As in all the support. A Armor suit may not even have to worry about regen, it may have a triage hive in its pocket ready to throw down, or a buddy w/ a rep tool. Of course, you are right in that solo armor suits vs solo shield suits lose because of the lack of regen.
A Gun > Repair tool
Unless you're a sentinel, don't expect repairers on you, unless you're in pubs and you have a dedicated Logi farming points on you while you kill a bunch of redberries. (Cough Arkena Cough)
Needles now apply to both shields and armor.
Triage hives have been nerfed quite a bit from their original godly incarnation, they don't last long and get killed by being sneezed at.
And they still have the same problems they always had - They force you to play passively, you can't be the aggressor with them.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Ghost Kaisar
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
8381
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:56:00 -
[116] - Quote
Hopping onto Dust now.
Join "Shields vs Armor" chat channel. Join if you are able.
Bullet Hell and Duct-Tape? Count me in!
FA recruits get free officer BPO's. Enlist today. Must be a scrub to enter.
|
Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13463
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 02:56:00 -
[117] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Cat Merc wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:
Check the main page of proto fits.
I named a fit after you. I want someone to try my Hybrid Tanked Gal Assault.
It's an interesting fit I'll give you that. Back when armor was terribad, I used to rely on my shields to absorb damage and then take cover when my armor started to take damage, because the regen was pitiful on armor. With this fit the delay is 3/4.5, which might make this play style a thing again. I'll check it out. Not dying instantly whenever a combat rifle decides to show up does sound appealing.
http://www.protofits.com/fittings/shared/193/9798
I edited the fit to include a kin cat.
6.9m/s is just too damn slow for me.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15258
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 03:01:00 -
[118] - Quote
Meeko Fent wrote:True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:True Adamance wrote:Meeko Fent wrote:The issue with Shields is that I sacrifice a great deal to capitalize on my strength (regen)
I have to sacrifice all my major armor buffer to get a very good Regen.
Armor suits have more versatility in that they already have their buffer built in to how their suit is designed to play. I could slap MORE buffer, in the way of shields, or I can add damage, or add melee, or add the other high mods.
To do the same, I have to rely on my shields, which then regen too slowly to be able to rapidly reengage following a fight. I clear a area out of guys, wait for shields to recharge before rushing the last bit of terrain, and they've already spawned back.
That, and, 1 v 1, a pure armor suit will likely win every time. They have more buffer compared to pure shield, and they have the added damage from the free highs.
Nothing in the lows really provide an incentive to fit shield suits for hit and run, besides just running. And then, I lose a good deal for having longer recharge delays for that speed.
Balancing PURE shields and PURE armor will be VERY hard. Both bricked? And their pretty equal.
Its just PURELY, armor is inherently better. You shouldn't be armour tanking on a shield suit anyway. The one thing I feel Shield tankers forget is the utility of Shields. Firstly no mobility penalties for respectable EHP values, you won't hit 1000 EHP but you will easily get around 700-800, respectable regenerative capacity, and access to utility modules from fitting enhancer, biotic enhancers, hacking modules, scanning modules. That is versatility. No. RONG. You get 700-800 eHP on proto suits. On a cheap Standard suit, If you run pure shield, you end up w/ 600 eHP. W/ Capped out HP skills. Whereas a Bricked shield suit could reach a hundred HP higher, giving it a solid lead in CQC, or 1 v 1 fights. A Armor Suit is inherently higher still. That Regen is useful, but as I said, capitalizing on regen loses a great deal of versatility in shield suits, making them one trick ponies. You have to lose your lows to make a good frontline shield suit, if you don't touch armor. You NEED better regen to make a shield great, because they lose eHP compared to armor, and you need to source that regen not only from your famed "utility" slots, but you also have to set aside a slot or two for boosting your general recharge rate (HP/s) from your highs, reducing your options for buffer more. Maybe this is less an issue of shields being bad, and more a place of saying standard caldari shield suits are bad. Ish. Not really. Like I said, bricks are always great, and even then, the regen is still good, but it still isn't as good as armor, considering the current meta of maps. Have I ever told you how much the Maps are favoring high eHP suits lately? My low tier Armour Suits also suffer lesser EHP values 630 at standard level. Wat. What did you do to it man?
1 Ferroscale to maintain mobility 2x Reppers.
Can get a Caldari Assault with 647 EHP as well.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
|
Ydubbs81
Ahrendee Mercenaries
1
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 03:02:00 -
[119] - Quote
Ghost Kaisar wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Ghost Kaisar wrote:My take on this
Big Ass wall of text most weapons are armor based or most used weapons are armor based? Because the scr rifle, laser, assault, shotgun...all hurt like hell. Not to mention, the one grenade that can ruin your life doesn't even have to hit you directly. You just have to be in the blast radius to lose it all. It is far more common to see anti-armor weapons on the battlefield. SMG, RR, CR, HMG, BP, Flaylock, and Mass driver are all anti-armor. All shields have going against them are ScR, IP, ScP, Shotgun, AR. Plasma Cannon and Sniper Rifles not mentioned because of sheer rarity. Heck, I was hesitant to even put the Ion Pistol on there. Yes, the anti-shield weapons hurt like hell. As they should. Shotguns get no special treatment, alpha is so high they wreck armor suits as well (Outside of heavies). Yes. Fluxes suck. A lot. Could be tweaked, but I personally find it to be a balance point, considering as they have no killing ability whatsoever. After reading some of these responses, I think we should just get all of us arguing together in a squad and play some matches while playing our fits. Would be fun.
I'm sure that you see those weapons but which do you see in abundance? Smg, HMG, ACR, SCR, AR.
I see more sniper kills than I do MD, flaylock, Bp, etc |
Slave of MORTE
Eyniletti Rangers
Minmatar Republic
118
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 03:02:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ace Boone wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:All shields need are better inherent regen on the shield tanking suits (i.e. lower delays and higher recharge rates)
Minmitar suits should have lowest delays, but not as high shield HP or recharge rate as Caldari.
However, all min/cal suits (except for scouts) need better shield regen stats inherently. My min assaults regen is a bit disappointing unless I put on regulators. Armor reps through damage, and HP tanking is more effective because of that. If Shields repped through damage, they would be OP, but since armor does, it's the best imo. But I shield tank everything, so what am I saying.
So why not run those modules you have 4 lows :/
Yet another slave of Mortedeamor
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