I would like to start (or revisit) this conversation to see where the community's head is at as far as which is the more effective choice. I've had arguments with Cat Merc because he feels that armor tanking gets the short end of the stick and I can't believe how he could think that. Shield suits, tanks, ADS are at a disadvantage to armor suits in so many ways. And I just read a thread about shields vs armor in the feedback section and I want to open up the dialogue on this.

I'll start by saying I think that armor tanking beats out shield tanking, generally, more times than not. If you shield tank as opposed to armor or dual tank then you have to play the scared role. Even as a cal heavy....you are subject to flux grenades and +20% scrambler rifle (most OP rifle in the game) ammunition. Shields are your first line of defense. If your first line is your major line of defense and it is gone rapidly, you are strung out of luck. If you armor tank, and you get surprised and lose your shields to a flux or a scrambler rifle...you still have time to react and enough health to defend yourself.

I can really go further but I'd like to open up the floor for discussion...

Exactly. People often forget that armor regen, especially on Gallente suits, is crazy good in combat. In the time it takes a scout to decloak, an 800 HP gal assault with full strafe speed and triple damage mods can recover 80+ armor with ease, even while being hit.

So, you've changed your mind? :)

right...even the ferroscale plates have more hp than the shield extenders. If you want even more tank and be even more ridiculous you can sacrifice a little speed.

Hell, armor tankers even have a mod that gives them hp and armor regen combined. I wish shield suits had a mod that had dual benefits.

I do agree there is no 'real' OP suit at the moment. It is based primarily on play style. But there is more advantages to armor tank as opposed to shield tanking. And I'm thinking mostly...during 1v1 encounters. Because anyone can shoot you in the back or destroy your tank if they have you flanked.

Its 4 seconds from the beginning of the decloak.

A well fit Gal Assault will have 800 total HP, and ~23 reps per second (2 complex reppers)

How will that 1m/s help you in a 1v1 gun fight?

The cal assault has ok shield regen.

Try making a good min assault shield regen fit, compared to a gal assault.

Your kin cats can't help you in a 1v1 gun fight. You must be thinking about survival and running for cover. And in that case, any suit can best any suit given the right situation. I'm talking about a gal and a cal assault suit 1v1.

Maybe if there was a bonus to strafe with kin cats but there isn't.

Our base regen is 30 and the more we use the more the delay for regen is penalized.

But it isn't about just the numbers on the suit. I'm talking about effectiveness. You can stack 4 ferroscales and a repper on a gal assault with a triage nanohive AND use damage mods without sacrificing the majority of where your health comes from. Plus, armor is the second line of defense, so you also have shield regen to help protect you as well.

Right and although some suits are better for that playstyle, any suit, regardless of fit, (besides heavies and logis) can pretty much play that sort of way.

One can see Cal Assaults, Min Assaults, Gal Assaults, and especially Amarr assaults play that sort of way.

My motivation is just bringing up advantages/disadvantages of shield vs armor tanking once engaged.

If you want to talk playstyle, then we can go there as well and determine which suit is best for that playstyle regardless of what else is opposing you on the battlefield.

:) everyone screams regen when it comes to shield dropsuits because that's the only advantage it seems to have. I've already named at least 2 or 3 advantages to armor tanking in this thread.

Of course, you would use them differently. But when you're trying to grab objectives or defend them, you may find yourself in an engagement on the objective. Especially in an assault suit where you can't see everyone until they are right up on you.

Ok..so the shield regen tips the net power to shield suits?

My take on this

Shields

Pro's:

First line of Defense. You can lose your main tank and survive.

Excellent Regen. Take damage? Just wait like 10 seconds. Most of your health should be back in 10-15s MAX unless you shitfit.

Explosive Resistance. Mass Drivers, Flaylocks, and Core Locus HURT unless you're in a shield suit.

Most weapons are anti-armor except for Plasma and Laser. Fear these.

High Slot Module. Kincats, Damps, Ferroscales OH MY. They don't even take away from your main tank... (That being said, you will be devoting low slots to regulators, don't go too low slot happy. We call those "Shitfits")

NO SPEED PENALTIES. Float like a butterfly, Sting like a bee. Get used to abusing your high mobility to hit a flank, and then run to the other side and hit the other flank with your fully regened health. These suits are a skirmishers wet dream.

Cons:

Shield delay/depleted. Get pinged 1s before regen starts? Too bad, start over. Lose all your shields? Guess what, you get to wait longer. You have to know how to maintain a shield tank to run them well. This means *GASP* USING COVER.

Fluxes will ruin your day. Seriously, these things are depressing. Total buzzkill.

CPU Intensive. Any decent shield fit will be running regulators/rechargers/energizers/extenders. Be prepared to pay for this with your CPU. A single proto Recharger/Energizer runs a good 100 CPU.

Lower HP when compared to Armor tanks. Yeah, best extender gives less health than a basic plate. Get over it. If it wasn't like this, shields would be OP AS HELL. Instead, be smart and learn how to shield tank scrub.

Armor

Pros:

CONSTANT REGEN. You never stop repping. This is fantastic if you know how to strafe in and out of cover. If you only take 1-2 shots each time you pop out, you can practically extend your eHP by about 50%. However, this takes DISCIPLINE.

Low Slot Module. Can someone say "Damage Mods?". Don't like damage mods? More HP is okay I guess...

External Rep. Yup, everyone loves to say how this isn't a pro. Tell that to them when they got a Core Focused on their ass. Shield tanking is great RIGHT? If you are a decent strafer, this can be borderline god mode. Thankfully, we have explosive weapons for people like you. There is no escape from the Boundless Assault Mass Driver (I actually say this as I spam AMD on my commando. Gleefullly, as I rack up the kills)

LOL Fluxes

TONS of health. You can get some INSANE armor values (Like a 700 armor shitfit gal scout). That being said, you also have to split your tank between regen and health, due to all armor modules being low slots. Pick wisely. A blend is preferred. Your overall eHP should still be a good 100-200 over most shield suits.


Cons:

Last line of defense. You can't lose your armor tank and walk away (99.99% of the time). Running armor tank takes some guts, as you HAVE to be able to kill the dude in front of you. Running away is never really an option.

Explosive weapons HURT. LIKE REALLY BAD. They kill your logi as well. Sad day all around.

PG Intensive. Yeah, hard to run lots of shields/damage mods when you have to devote PG to your Reps/Tank/ScR/AR.
Thankfully, the Gal and Amarr suits tend to have lots of PG, so that should help quite a bit. PG optimization is also a thing, and you should invest SP into it.

SPEED PENALTIES. You will not be an agile little butterfly unless you run Ferros and Kincats (WITH NO PLATES). Deal with it. If you strafed like crazy, you would be OP AS HELL. Jump height could use some love though. Watching Armor tankers try to jump over a curb can be hilarious, but they really should be able to clear it.

Tons of weapons are anti-armor. Rail and Projectile cover a LOT of weapons in this game. HMG's will eat you for breakfast, and Combat rifles will OM NOM NOM on your fat slow suit. Rail Rifles will happily chew you to bits with ease. This means that you really have to move cover to cover and take advantage of those constant reps. Best Armor tankers I see actually run a blend of speed/armor/regen and abuse cover.

While you may have tons of health YOU ARE NOT INVINCIBLE. Seriously, armor can make you feel tough at times due to the damage you can take, but aggro is merciless. You need to know how to push aggresively and safely. You are not impossible to take down. Respect your own HP pool and know if you can safely push up (Threatening the dude with Damage mods and pure HP) and when you need to fall back. Low health Armor tanks are easy kills. Remember, armor is your LAST LINE OF DEFENSE.

---

OVERALL

Shields are for fast regening skirmishers that favor a hit and run style of play

Armor is for "Stand and Deliver" players who like to hit hard and push agressively.

They may not be perfectly balanced at the moment, but they are the closest it has been in a VERY LONG TIME.

Only slight adjustments need to be made in my opinion.

To me: Shields are harder to use, but generally more rewarding. Armor is easy to use at times due to raw HP, but to make them truly shine, you need to play just as strategically as a shield tanker. It all comes down to preference in the end.

Just saw that I could fit a stable active scanner. DONE.

Force recon here I come at 8m/s!

I mean, how is a cal heavy supposed to survive

By shield tanking properly and attacking in bursts when its health comes back from the great regen proper shield suits have...

After reading some of these responses, I think we should just get all of us arguing together in a squad and play some matches while playing our fits. Would be fun.

As much as I love you, Kaisar, your fits sicken me.

Min assault-4 complex shields, 2 complex damps, and either a rep per + kin cat, or 2 kin cats.

Boundless CR and Six Kin SMG with a flux grenade for pesky cal scounts.

If you strafe hard enough and run, the repping doesn't matter cause nothing hits you.

Also, pack remotes for the heavies.

Ermmm...

Why does that matter?

Unless your shooting yourself, that is a useless point. ScR and Flux nades whoop CalSent ass.

BRB Grabbing my Intervention

Min Assault is possibly the best assault in the game because of this.

It has a fantastic slot layout and its base speed/stamina regen works wonders. It is unbelievably flexible, running deadly shield and armor fits.

Heck, I say that for most Minmatar suits. Outside of the scout and Logi, every suit can either be shield, or armor tanked. Its half the reason why I love all their suits.

No. RONG.

You get 700-800 eHP on proto suits.

On a cheap Standard suit, If you run pure shield, you end up w/ 600 eHP. W/ Capped out HP skills. Whereas a Bricked shield suit could reach a hundred HP higher, giving it a solid lead in CQC, or 1 v 1 fights. A Armor Suit is inherently higher still.

That Regen is useful, but as I said, capitalizing on regen loses a great deal of versatility in shield suits, making them one trick ponies. You have to lose your lows to make a good frontline shield suit, if you don't touch armor.

You NEED better regen to make a shield great, because they lose eHP compared to armor, and you need to source that regen not only from your famed "utility" slots, but you also have to set aside a slot or two for boosting your general recharge rate (HP/s), reducing your options for buffer more.

Maybe this is less an issue of shields being bad, and more a place of saying standard caldari shield suits are bad. Ish. Not really. Like I said, bricks are always great, and even then, the regen is still good, but it still isn't as good as armor, considering the current meta of maps.

Have I ever told you how much the Maps are favoring high eHP suits lately?

Check the main page of proto fits.

I named a fit after you. I want someone to try my Hybrid Tanked Gal Assault.

Well, maybe I should have said that I used maxed gear in this. Sorry. Maxed reppers are ok, and even then, a Comp reactive I something I always have on one of my fits. Standard gear is really crummy

But, even at that, at least the armor would survive to rep another day. Not trying to argue w/ the great Cat Merc (murrow), But Armor also has a ton of perks shield doesn't

• Triage Hives
• Repair Tools
• Needles

Armor gets a ton more support from logis then shield does. As in all the support. A Armor suit may not even have to worry about regen, it may have a triage hive in its pocket ready to throw down, or a buddy w/ a rep tool.

Of course, you are right in that solo armor suits vs solo shield suits lose because of the lack of regen.