The wide majority of infantry suits have:

Poor shield regeneration values
Very long shield delay/depleted delay times
The damage profiles on weaponry(and the trend of ridiculous high alpha damage plus this the stealth abuse issue in this game) make it so that nearly all weapons can have a vicious effectiveness on shields. It wouldn't make sense for a 60 point damage gun to have 30% more power against shielding when shields have the disadvantage of less HP and the gun is already so powerful.
You need to have high shield HP to live, to improve your bad shield delay, and your bad shield recharge value.
Three modules you need to get for basic survival when shield tanking, which is a heavy investment.

With armour on infantry, you have:
Ability to round up a very large sum of HP in armour
No weapon has any extreme damage profile advantages against armour besides explosives, which not many people use in the first place.
Some modules don't follow the more HP layout of armour, and this allows shielding modules to give more HP than them (e.g., reactive plates)
Regardless you can get past this.
Some suits can tank enough armour to match that of a heavy suit, be only a little bit slowed, and once you have 10 HP/s in armour and up you can have better survivability than shielding(because of how armour regeneration being quite close to instant on infantry where shielding you have to wait often over 3 seconds, which is enough time for someone to find and kill you)
Besides this, you hardly need to invest in modules or skills for armour.

There has been recent high HP stacking of shields, but as stated before the weapons can combat this easily.

With vehicles there's this:
Unnecessary AV buffs and many cutoffs from vehicles have made it so that survivability is really low unless you have level five in most of the shield tree.

Shields on vehicles cannot have their delay time changed, only depleted time, and cannot improve recharge time unless you have proto shield boosters.
The wide majority of AV methods have affective damage profiles against armour.
Swarms and forgeguns are actually effective ways of fighting shields, because swarms are universally overpowered at basic+ and all advanced+ forgeguns are quite a bit ridiculous, especially because of their range.
They can survive Unfair methods of AV like steathily planting RE's on them, unless if they were advanced+ and the vehicle wasn't slightly dual tanked when fluxed. Jihad jeeping is a may thing.

Armour on vehicles, at armour regeneration at five and with other things it may be possible for you to outregenerate the damage, but it will take heavy SP cost.
The wide majority of AV methods are hypereffective against armour based vehicles.
Impractical methods like steathily throwing RE's and jihad jeeping can be done with little to no difficulty and can take ground out then and there. They may be able to survive jihad jeeping.

Dropships are a no go, because unless you are using something like complex CPU/PG upgrades to tank as much HP as possible, they are far too slow to survive.
ADS have better maneuverability, but as they have less HP and very butchered levels of pg/cpu(like most of the vehicles)
it's possible for a swarmer to down them in all 3 volleys, and this can usually be done in 4 seconds or less.
Because of the swarm launcher having an excessive lock time, like how forgeguns have an excessive effective range, it is usually not possibly to escape without an afterburner, hardener, or booster. Swarm users often, even with these things, get the third volley to fire(because any tiny bit of skilling into swarms will make the lock on time less than one second.) Besides this without proto or so it will take time for the module to recharge, keeping you out of the battlefield for quite a bit.
Caldari ADS have the same issue as the other caldari vehicles and same for the gallente ones.
Unless you don't have your gallente vehicles hyped up on regen they won't outperform the caldari ones.

Regardless, Shields and armour for everything is in a bad state.

Yes.

5 seconds.

Catmerc's fit has a delay of 2 seconds and 52.65 rep/sec
Mine has constant passive of 20 rep/sec.

Assuming we stop firing at the same time and have five seconds to regen and reload.

20* 5 = 100 armour reps over 5 seconds

(5 seconds - 2 second delay) = 3 seconds @ 52.65 rep/sec

52.65* 3 = 157.95

In this instance I have not regenerated any of my shielding and am engaging you (by in this instance as stated by Meeko approaching your position) with X EHP + my 100 vs you who is now in a superior positions waiting for my arrival.

In 3 more seconds you will have regenerated 315.9 shielding vs my 160 armour.

That's great if you have 5 seconds to regen. Because if we're gunning each other in a cqc situation, you won' t have 5 secs to regen.

And see, noone can argue that shields regen faster than armor. Noone is denying that....but we can throw some real scenarios into the mix. Like, if a gal assault is sitting in a triage nanohive during this encounter. This is one of my points...all of the different advantages that armor tanking has against shields. There is nothing that a shield tanker can do or equip to have regen during damage.

Can't really take you seriously when you just called the Scr the most OP rifle in the game while the Cr remains king.

Yes.

5 seconds.

Catmerc's fit has a delay of 2 seconds and 52.65 rep/sec
Mine has constant passive of 20 rep/sec.

Assuming we stop firing at the same time and have five seconds to regen and reload.

20* 5 = 100 armour reps over 5 seconds

(5 seconds - 2 second delay) = 3 seconds @ 52.65 rep/sec

52.65* 3 = 157.95

In this instance I have not regenerated any of my shielding and am engaging you (by in this instance as stated by Meeko approaching your position) with X EHP + my 100 vs you who is now in a superior positions waiting for my arrival.

In 3 more seconds you will have regenerated 315.9 shielding vs my 160 armour.

Shield is better cuz no speed penalty

Assuming you didn't read, as someone already stated ferroscale plates give you more HP than a shield extender with no movement penalties.

Ferroscale dont have a built-in incredibly fast recharge rate... So....

So... you either stack ferros and minimal reps and use a triage hive or logi support, or make a 20HP/S no delay armor rep suit, with similar HP to that of the shield tank counter part and stack damage mods on the high DPS anti-shield weapon to insta kill the shield suit.

Let's not forget it takes a Cal assault to regen its armor 129.33 seconds and a Gal/Amarr assault less than 20 seconds to regen its shields.

Or a Cal scout 174 seconds to regen its armor and a Gal/Amarr 9 seconds to regen its shields.

^

1 why do you quote yourself?
2"insta-killing" why am I even answering?
3 you have lows too, if we look at it this Way it took a gal assault 170 secs to rep his armor, you have lows too...
4 you all look at that 20 hp/s while under fire like you could outrep dmg. Weapons usually have a dps of like 450-500,even if your aim is terrible that 20 hp/s is nothing.

I find shield tankers quite formidable.

3 lows too, for regulators and/or biotics or ewar module. Dual tanking a shield suit is not as efffective as pure shield tanking. The most I'd do is a reactive that gives you 260 armour with 58 seconds to regen and a movement penalty.
4 Agreed you cannot out rep fire but apply that logic to the shield suits, no one says armor suits are not allowed to hide or take cover. Those high DPS weapons are more painful towards shield suits (AR, ScrR usually with damage mods even a CR or RR on a armour suit with damage mods will hurt a shield suit more). If a shield suit wishes to achieve similar DPS he will lose a lot of HP.

You shield tankers talk about dmg mod like they were incredibly super op and about kincats and dampeners like they were useless. If I could put a kincat or a dampeners on my higs I d 100% put one instead of a dmg mod.

Talking about weapons:
1you are strangely forgetting the HMG, one if not the most spammed weapon of the game (for sure it is the most spammed in PC) that has a - 15%/+15% profile.

2 you tell me that cr and rr deal a lot of dmg to shields? I can tell you that SR and BRAR do a lot of dmg to armor too.

You shield tankers talk about dmg mod like they were incredibly super op and about kincats and dampeners like they were useless. If I could put a kincat or a dampeners on my higs I d 100% put one instead of a dmg mod.

Talking about weapons:
1you are strangely forgetting the HMG, one if not the most spammed weapon of the game (for sure it is the most spammed in PC) that has a - 15%/+15% profile.

2 you tell me that cr and rr deal a lot of dmg to shields? I can tell you that SR and BRAR do a lot of dmg to armor too.

The thing about armor vs shields is lack of high slot choices for armor tankers, while shield tankers have a wide variety of low slot choices.

If you are using all your low slots to be a pure armor tanker, you now have to choose what to put in your highs. You can now choose to boost your melee damage, boost your sidearm/light/heavy weapon damage, increase shields, increase shield recharge, or boost scan range. Lets look closer into that.

Melee damage on a pure armor suit is laughable because of speed.

Unless you are a scout, scan range is also laughable due to poor base scanning precision.

Shield recharge is increased by a percentage, and armor suits have a very low base shield recharge, so you get very little reward from that percentage.

So if you are making a competitive fitting, your only real choice for your highs is weapon mods vs shield extenders. Shield extenders are, I might mention, a very inefficient module since they will regenerate very slowly, and have a very very large delay before they even begin to recharge slowly.

A pure shield tanker, on the other hand, has myriad choices for his spare low slots.

Does he want to make his shields even better? Regulators.

Does he want to improve even more on his speed advantage over armor tankers? Kincats.

Does he want to be a marathon runner and outdistance the armor tankers? Stam mods.

Does he want to hack faster? Code Breakers.

Is he low on CPU/PG? PG upgrades and CPU mods.

Does he want to hybrid tank? Plates, ferroscales, reactives, and reppers.

EWAR? Dampeners and Precision Enhancers.

Those are just off of the top of my head, I may have forgotten one or two. All of the listed are viable for a competitive fitting, save for maybe the precision enhancers if you are using heavy/medium.


The disparity between armor/shields isn't because of shield and armor modules, but because of every module EXCEPT shield and armor mods. Not enough choices for armor tankers.

The thing about armor vs shields is lack of high slot choices for armor tankers, while shield tankers have a wide variety of low slot choices.

If you are using all your low slots to be a pure armor tanker, you now have to choose what to put in your highs. You can now choose to boost your melee damage, boost your sidearm/light/heavy weapon damage, increase shields, increase shield recharge, or boost scan range. Lets look closer into that.

Melee damage on a pure armor suit is laughable because of speed.

Unless you are a scout, scan range is also laughable due to poor base scanning precision.

Shield recharge is increased by a percentage, and armor suits have a very low base shield recharge, so you get very little reward from that percentage.

So if you are making a competitive fitting, your only real choice for your highs is weapon mods vs shield extenders. Shield extenders are, I might mention, a very inefficient module since they will regenerate very slowly, and have a very very large delay before they even begin to recharge slowly.

A pure shield tanker, on the other hand, has myriad choices for his spare low slots.

Does he want to make his shields even better? Regulators.

Does he want to improve even more on his speed advantage over armor tankers? Kincats.

Does he want to be a marathon runner and outdistance the armor tankers? Stam mods.

Does he want to hack faster? Code Breakers.

Is he low on CPU/PG? PG upgrades and CPU mods.

Does he want to hybrid tank? Plates, ferroscales, reactives, and reppers.

EWAR? Dampeners and Precision Enhancers.

Those are just off of the top of my head, I may have forgotten one or two. All of the listed are viable for a competitive fitting, save for maybe the precision enhancers if you are using heavy/medium.


The disparity between armor/shields isn't because of shield and armor modules, but because of every module EXCEPT shield and armor mods. Not enough choices for armor tankers.

TL;DR
I have a negative IQ

FTFY

Wow these 2 guys above me are very mature, Smart and intelligent. They clearly proved their points with clear stats and evidences.