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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3487
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
I would like to start (or revisit) this conversation to see where the community's head is at as far as which is the more effective choice. I've had arguments with Cat Merc because he feels that armor tanking gets the short end of the stick and I can't believe how he could think that. Shield suits, tanks, ADS are at a disadvantage to armor suits in so many ways. And I just read a thread about shields vs armor in the feedback section and I want to open up the dialogue on this.
I'll start by saying I think that armor tanking beats out shield tanking, generally, more times than not. If you shield tank as opposed to armor or dual tank then you have to play the scared role. Even as a cal heavy....you are subject to flux grenades and +20% scrambler rifle (most OP rifle in the game) ammunition. Shields are your first line of defense. If your first line is your major line of defense and it is gone rapidly, you are strung out of luck. If you armor tank, and you get surprised and lose your shields to a flux or a scrambler rifle...you still have time to react and enough health to defend yourself.
I can really go further but I'd like to open up the floor for discussion...
> Check RND out here
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Ace Boone
Capital Acquisitions LLC
495
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
That's because stacking shields can give you similar eHP to someone that stacks armor, with a lot more speed.
Only loyal to the republic.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2964
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:31:00 -
[3] - Quote
All shields need are better inherent regen on the shield tanking suits (i.e. lower delays and higher recharge rates)
Minmitar suits should have lowest delays, but not as high shield HP or recharge rate as Caldari.
However, all min/cal suits (except for scouts) need better shield regen stats inherently.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3487
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:32:00 -
[4] - Quote
Ace Boone wrote:That's because stacking shields can give you similar eHP to someone that stacks armor, with a lot more speed.
Complex ferroscale plates are 75hp of armor as opposed to complex shield extenders @ 66hp. So, you can stack more ehp on an armor tanked suit and still maintain the same speed
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15248
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:32:00 -
[5] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I would like to start (or revisit) this conversation to see where the community's head is at as far as which is the more effective choice. I've had arguments with Cat Merc because he feels that armor tanking gets the short end of the stick and I can't believe how he could think that. Shield suits, tanks, ADS are at a disadvantage to armor suits in so many ways. And I just read a thread about shields vs armor in the feedback section and I want to open up the dialogue on this.
I'll start by saying I think that armor tanking beats out shield tanking, generally, more times than not. If you shield tank as opposed to armor or dual tank then you have to play the scared role. Even as a cal heavy....you are subject to flux grenades and +20% scrambler rifle (most OP rifle in the game) ammunition. Shields are your first line of defense. If your first line is your major line of defense and it is gone rapidly, you are strung out of luck. If you armor tank, and you get surprised and lose your shields to a flux or a scrambler rifle...you still have time to react and enough health to defend yourself.
I can really go further but I'd like to open up the floor for discussion...
Nope the Shield HAV is statistically better than the Armour HAV.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2964
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:32:00 -
[6] - Quote
Ace Boone wrote:That's because stacking shields can give you similar eHP to someone that stacks armor, with a lot more speed.
Strafe speed is relatively unaffected by armor plates, unless they are brick tanked, and especially not if they are using ferroscales.
Shield suits get kin cats and profile dampeners in the off tank, while armor tankers get damage mods and precision enhancers.
Shield vehicles are generally better than armor, simply because of the AV weapons currently available to people in the game, as well as maneuverability of the vehicles themselves.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Ace Boone
Capital Acquisitions LLC
496
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:33:00 -
[7] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:All shields need are better inherent regen on the shield tanking suits (i.e. lower delays and higher recharge rates)
Minmitar suits should have lowest delays, but not as high shield HP or recharge rate as Caldari.
However, all min/cal suits (except for scouts) need better shield regen stats inherently.
My min assaults regen is a bit disappointing unless I put on regulators.
Armor reps through damage, and HP tanking is more effective because of that. If Shields repped through damage, they would be OP, but since armor does, it's the best imo.
But I shield tank everything, so what am I saying.
Only loyal to the republic.
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Moochie Cricket
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
845
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:34:00 -
[8] - Quote
I would love to see a much higher base shield recharge rate or maybe have energizers/rechargers getting a massive buff.
FOR THE STATE
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2964
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:35:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ace Boone wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:All shields need are better inherent regen on the shield tanking suits (i.e. lower delays and higher recharge rates)
Minmitar suits should have lowest delays, but not as high shield HP or recharge rate as Caldari.
However, all min/cal suits (except for scouts) need better shield regen stats inherently. My min assaults regen is a bit disappointing unless I put on regulators. Armor reps through damage, and HP tanking is more effective because of that. If Shields repped through damage, they would be OP, but since armor does, it's the best imo. But I shield tank everything, so what am I saying.
Exactly. People often forget that armor regen, especially on Gallente suits, is crazy good in combat. In the time it takes a scout to decloak, an 800 HP gal assault with full strafe speed and triple damage mods can recover 80+ armor with ease, even while being hit.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Denchlad 7
Dead Man's Game
1340
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:37:00 -
[10] - Quote
Shield Vehicles > Armor Vehicles.
Only exception may be LAVs. But Saga-II says otherwise.
Shield Dropsuits < Armor Dropsuits.
I use both. Caldari suits feel like paper - Amarr/Gallente feel like a literal tank.
The Connoisseur of Weapons.
19/19 Level 5, 19/19 Proficiency 3.
Excessively British. Tea is the drink of Gods.
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hfderrtgvcd
1394
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:38:00 -
[11] - Quote
They're pretty balanced imo. Shields have better speed and regen with a delay while armor has better hp without a delay. The only thing that needs to be fixed is the higher cpu/pg of shield extenders and the poor delays on the min and cal assaults.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15250
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:39:00 -
[12] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Ace Boone wrote:That's because stacking shields can give you similar eHP to someone that stacks armor, with a lot more speed.
Strafe speed is relatively unaffected by armor plates, unless they are brick tanked, and especially not if they are using ferroscales. Shield suits get kin cats and profile dampeners in the off tank, while armor tankers get damage mods and precision enhancers. Shield vehicles are generally better than armor, simply because of the AV weapons currently available to people in the game, as well as maneuverability of the vehicles themselves.
I do also want to point out the utility modules that as an armour tanker I value most the Hack Module and Kin Cats.......are all lows.
Would sacrifice damage modules to lows (where they should be) for those utilities.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
4689
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:44:00 -
[13] - Quote
Can't really take you seriously when you just called the Scr the most OP rifle in the game while the Cr remains king.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2964
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:45:00 -
[14] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Ace Boone wrote:That's because stacking shields can give you similar eHP to someone that stacks armor, with a lot more speed.
Strafe speed is relatively unaffected by armor plates, unless they are brick tanked, and especially not if they are using ferroscales. Shield suits get kin cats and profile dampeners in the off tank, while armor tankers get damage mods and precision enhancers. Shield vehicles are generally better than armor, simply because of the AV weapons currently available to people in the game, as well as maneuverability of the vehicles themselves. I do also want to point out the utility modules that as an armour tanker I value most the Hack Module and Kin Cats.......are all lows. Would sacrifice damage modules to lows (where they should be) for those utilities.
Kincats should stay as lows. Myofibs should give a slight speed bonus and hack mods should be moved to highs.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
15250
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:47:00 -
[15] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:True Adamance wrote:Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Ace Boone wrote:That's because stacking shields can give you similar eHP to someone that stacks armor, with a lot more speed.
Strafe speed is relatively unaffected by armor plates, unless they are brick tanked, and especially not if they are using ferroscales. Shield suits get kin cats and profile dampeners in the off tank, while armor tankers get damage mods and precision enhancers. Shield vehicles are generally better than armor, simply because of the AV weapons currently available to people in the game, as well as maneuverability of the vehicles themselves. I do also want to point out the utility modules that as an armour tanker I value most the Hack Module and Kin Cats.......are all lows. Would sacrifice damage modules to lows (where they should be) for those utilities. Kincats should stay as lows. Myofibs should give a slight speed bonus and hack mods should be moved to highs.
It's just an opinion anyway.
I said, "Empress, I do this, I thought that you knew this.
Can't stand non-believers and honest, the truth is...
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3489
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:47:00 -
[16] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I would like to start (or revisit) this conversation to see where the community's head is at as far as which is the more effective choice. I've had arguments with Cat Merc because he feels that armor tanking gets the short end of the stick and I can't believe how he could think that. Shield suits, tanks, ADS are at a disadvantage to armor suits in so many ways. And I just read a thread about shields vs armor in the feedback section and I want to open up the dialogue on this.
I'll start by saying I think that armor tanking beats out shield tanking, generally, more times than not. If you shield tank as opposed to armor or dual tank then you have to play the scared role. Even as a cal heavy....you are subject to flux grenades and +20% scrambler rifle (most OP rifle in the game) ammunition. Shields are your first line of defense. If your first line is your major line of defense and it is gone rapidly, you are strung out of luck. If you armor tank, and you get surprised and lose your shields to a flux or a scrambler rifle...you still have time to react and enough health to defend yourself.
I can really go further but I'd like to open up the floor for discussion...
Nope the Shield HAV is statistically better than the Armour HAV. Better fitting capacity (evinced by the "EHP ***** Sica" which can fit a whole proto line up and field 9K EHP vs Explosive AV) Better tracking and mobility optiions that reduce the penalties of slow tracking turrets Comprable and better EHP values Better stand and deliver capacity Better passive regen capacity (168 per second without even fitting a module after 4 seconds) Access to fitting modules without sacrificing racial tank
all of that sounds good but can a shield rail or blaster beat a maddy blaster 1v1? Even a maddy rail has advantages. I don't know much about the fitting requirements of a maddy but most of the health is in the low slots and they can still have dmg mods without sacrificing health.
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3489
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:48:00 -
[17] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:They're pretty balanced imo. Shields have better speed and regen with a delay while armor has better hp without a delay. The only thing that needs to be fixed is the higher cpu/pg of shield extenders and the poor delays on the min and cal assaults.
why do you say they have better speed?
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3490
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:49:00 -
[18] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Can't really take you seriously when you just called the Scr the most OP rifle in the game while the Cr remains king.
?? Can't really take you seriously for thinking the same about the CR
> Check RND out here
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2965
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:50:00 -
[19] - Quote
Nocturnal Soul wrote:Can't really take you seriously when you just called the Scr the most OP rifle in the game while the Cr remains king.
I think we can all agree that the BrAR is far stronger than either of those weapons.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6232
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:51:00 -
[20] - Quote
The Minmatar Assault needs a lot better base regen because right now using shield charging mods is a waste because they just don't do enough given our amount of shields and base stats.
It's always better to opt for stacking shield mods on the Minmatar Assault rather than running a recharging mod and thar shouldn't be.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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hfderrtgvcd
1394
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:52:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:They're pretty balanced imo. Shields have better speed and regen with a delay while armor has better hp without a delay. The only thing that needs to be fixed is the higher cpu/pg of shield extenders and the poor delays on the min and cal assaults. why do you say they have better speed?
armor plates have speed penalties. Unless you're talking about ferroscales, which makes the hp difference much smaller.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3490
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:53:00 -
[22] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Can't really take you seriously when you just called the Scr the most OP rifle in the game while the Cr remains king. I think we can all agree that the BrAR is far stronger than either of those weapons.
Not even the breach is better than the SCR
> Check RND out here
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DeadlyAztec11
Ostrakon Agency
6232
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:53:00 -
[23] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Can't really take you seriously when you just called the Scr the most OP rifle in the game while the Cr remains king. I think we can all agree that the BrAR is far stronger than either of those weapons.
My Advanced Scrambler Rifle, with two Complex Light Damage Modifers, begs to difffer.
Put your flags up in the sky.
And wave them side to side.
Show the world where you're from.
Show the world we are one.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3490
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:54:00 -
[24] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:They're pretty balanced imo. Shields have better speed and regen with a delay while armor has better hp without a delay. The only thing that needs to be fixed is the higher cpu/pg of shield extenders and the poor delays on the min and cal assaults. why do you say they have better speed? armor plates have speed penalties. Unless you're talking about ferroscales, which makes the hp difference much smaller.
right...even the ferroscale plates have more hp than the shield extenders. If you want even more tank and be even more ridiculous you can sacrifice a little speed.
Hell, armor tankers even have a mod that gives them hp and armor regen combined. I wish shield suits had a mod that had dual benefits.
> Check RND out here
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
4689
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:54:00 -
[25] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Nocturnal Soul wrote:Can't really take you seriously when you just called the Scr the most OP rifle in the game while the Cr remains king. I think we can all agree that the BrAR is far stronger than either of those weapons.
Tbh I think it's barely OP, it just needs an adjustment to its kick but that's all.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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hfderrtgvcd
1394
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:55:00 -
[26] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:They're pretty balanced imo. Shields have better speed and regen with a delay while armor has better hp without a delay. The only thing that needs to be fixed is the higher cpu/pg of shield extenders and the poor delays on the min and cal assaults. why do you say they have better speed? armor plates have speed penalties. Unless you're talking about ferroscales, which makes the hp difference much smaller. right...even the ferroscale plates have more hp than the shield extenders. If you want even more tank and be even more ridiculous you can sacrifice a little speed. Hell, armor tankers even have a mod that gives them hp and armor regen combined. I wish shield suits had a mod that had dual benefits.
Shields suits still have much better regen though
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3490
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 00:56:00 -
[27] - Quote
DeadlyAztec11 wrote:The Minmatar Assault needs a lot better base regen because right now using shield charging mods is a waste because they just don't do enough given our amount of shields and base stats.
It's always better to opt for stacking shield mods on the Minmatar Assault rather than running a recharging mod and thar shouldn't be.
The winmatar assault has so many advantages that I can understand the regen not being up to par.....and I love minmatar :)
> Check RND out here
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
13454
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:57:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I would like to start (or revisit) this conversation to see where the community's head is at as far as which is the more effective choice. I've had arguments with Cat Merc because he feels that armor tanking gets the short end of the stick and I can't believe how he could think that. Shield suits, tanks, ADS are at a disadvantage to armor suits in so many ways. And I just read a thread about shields vs armor in the feedback section and I want to open up the dialogue on this.
I'll start by saying I think that armor tanking beats out shield tanking, generally, more times than not. If you shield tank as opposed to armor or dual tank then you have to play the scared role. Even as a cal heavy....you are subject to flux grenades and +20% scrambler rifle (most OP rifle in the game) ammunition. Shields are your first line of defense. If your first line is your major line of defense and it is gone rapidly, you are strung out of luck. If you armor tank, and you get surprised and lose your shields to a flux or a scrambler rifle...you still have time to react and enough health to defend yourself.
I can really go further but I'd like to open up the floor for discussion...
We've had these conversations quite a long time ago dubbs.
I believe armor no longer gets the short end of the stick, but neither do shields.
They're fairly balanced, you've just got to realize that they come with different play styles.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3490
|
Posted - 2014.12.01 00:57:00 -
[29] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:They're pretty balanced imo. Shields have better speed and regen with a delay while armor has better hp without a delay. The only thing that needs to be fixed is the higher cpu/pg of shield extenders and the poor delays on the min and cal assaults. why do you say they have better speed? armor plates have speed penalties. Unless you're talking about ferroscales, which makes the hp difference much smaller. right...even the ferroscale plates have more hp than the shield extenders. If you want even more tank and be even more ridiculous you can sacrifice a little speed. Hell, armor tankers even have a mod that gives them hp and armor regen combined. I wish shield suits had a mod that had dual benefits. Shields suits still have much better regen though
they do..that is probably the only thing that shield has a plus on in regards to armor tanking. But that doesn't tip the scales...regen can't help you in a 1v1. Also armor reps through damage, there is no delay
> Check RND out here
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Nocturnal Soul
Primordial Threat
4689
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Posted - 2014.12.01 00:58:00 -
[30] - Quote
On to the topic matter, the only thing the shield suits need in my opinion and time playing in them is that the down time is completely insane. I honestly find it impossible to heavily rely on shields as my main hp when you et so little of it.
(Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ.
LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
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