https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2425277#post2425277

I believe this is where people would think you meant that.

Apparently the weapon was overperforming at CQC where it should have been 'less good' compared to other rifles.

But it wasn't.

The quadruple kick ruined the weapon in CQC.

I swapped to sidearm.

he flat out said that he nerfed the RR because it was too popular. it actually wasnt OP at all according to his data. he simply wants to force us to use other weapons. which is of course, the most BS reason ive ever heard for nerfing something.

I don't think it really makes sense to have a different charge time for hip fire and ADS. It is not like the internal workings of the gun are effected by how you hold it. The difference in kick and dispersion is do to you stabilizing the guy with your shoulder when you ADS.

Rail Rifle currently has a charge time of 0.6 seconds, which is ridiculous. It should be no more than 0.3 seconds.

The Rail Rifle should have better zoom in ADS than the Assault Rail Rifle.
The Rail Rifle should have more kick and more dispersion in hip fire mode than the Assault Rail Rifle.
The Rail Rifle should have more range than the Assault Rail Rifle.
The Rail Rifle should do less DPS than the Assault Rail Rifle.

I'm waitng for the rr haters to get in here and say its balanced.

Dont care dec 31st planetside 2

I am Pissed! Truly Pissed, and that does not happen that often.

CQC QQ has caused Rattati to neuter the long range capability of the Rail Rifle.

I spawned into an Ambush OMS match were each team spawned with cover separated by 60m of open field. I had initially spawned with a Militia HMG but at that range I could not do enough damage to even log an Assist, so after making a Hail Mary attempt to cross the open ground on their flank, and dying, I spawned in again in my Min Logi fit which has a Rail Rifle.

A fire fight at 60m to 70m range, this situation was made for the Rail Rifle! So I find some cover and then line up a shot, and here is what happened:

Line up Shot, Pull trigger, waitGǪ waitGǪ waitGǪ target ducks behind coverGǪ Rail Rifle fires.

At one point this happened 5 times in a row! I would pull up the sight, get the dot on the target, pull the trigger, and by the time the gun fired my target had already ducked back behind cover. Only about 25% of the time was the target still visible when my Rail Rifle finally went off. In the time it took my Rail Rifle to charge, the other guys were firing off a bust from their CR or ScR and then ducking for cover again, as you do in this type of long range fire fight.

The only kills I got with the RR were a Sentinel who ran out into an open field chasing a kill, and a Scout who was distracted placing Remote Explosives on a Tank.

So, how did the Rail Rifle get ****** over like this? Well let me recap.

In a minor Hot Fix before 1.9 Rattati applied a fully appropriate nerf to the Rail RifleGÇÖs short range capabilities by increasing hip fire Kick. Although I normally avoid CQC fights when using a Rail Rifle, I deliberately went looking for them to test this change to the Rail Rifle. I found it was not that bad at all. The kick would not even start until you had fired 15 rounds, and then when it did start to kick you could compensate fairly well for another 10 to 15 rounds. If you took your finger off the trigger for a moment and then waited out the very short charge time you could fire off the rest of the clip without too much trouble. The nerf was so minor that I continued to use the Rail Rifle on my Min Logi despite not having a sidearm to switch to in Close Quarter Combat (CQC).

However certain people QQGÇÖed about the kick, basing their analysis of the kick on what it does if you hold the trigger through the full 40 round clip. I donGÇÖt even fire continuously for that long when using an HMG, unless I am trying to kill a LAV with it. I also donGÇÖt hip fire with the RR unless my target is within 10m of me. Mostly at near-mid range I just line up the shot from the hip and switch to ADS just as I am about to fire. It the proper way to use most Rifles in mid range. If they are closer than 10m, then they are mighty big targets even if my weapon is kicking a bit.

But the QQ was strong from people who wanted to use the best Long Range Rifle in close quarters, and Rattati gave in. When the Hotfix changes were accidentally reverted with the release of 1.9, Rattati tweaked the nerf to RR before applying the Hotfix again. He toned down the Kick and increased the Charge time, which appears from my experience this morning to have completely neutered the Rail Rifle at long range.

Now the Rail Rifle, which is supposed to be the best Long Range Rifle, is ineffectual in long range fire fights!

There is nothing more frustrating than pulling the trigger when you have someone in your sights, and seeing your target wonder out of sight before your weapon finally goes off. There is not even a charge up sound effect to give you some indication of how much longer you will have to wait.

I so hate it when QQ from people who are trying to use a weapon or suit in an unintended manner gets that weapon or suit nerfed to ineffectiveness in its core function! The shear idiocy of some of the people on this forum can be stunning at times.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2425277#post2425277

I believe this is where people would think you meant that.

Funny thing is that now is more effective in CQC.

Kick like a mule version lasted a couple of days and was almost perfect, very good at long distance, usable at short but only as a finisher (5-6 shots).

But people like to QQ, i don't know why Rattati has listened them.

What he said is it was BOTH overpopular AND overpowered (in terms of K/S).

I made the same mistake you did when I read this post. You have to pay close attention to the colors in the K/S graph -- the RR was leading in K/S and far and away leading in usage.

If I may be so bold, it appears to me that Rattati was concerned with both.

What's more, I think you are out of line to suggest otherwise, much less thumb your nose in his face when called on it.

No, No it wasn't and No it isn't. A little bit of kick is good for cqc, BOUNCES ALL OVER THE ****ING PLACE like it's being handled by someone with parkinsons who's experiencing an epileptic seizure is not.

Even in CQC you want your shots to be on target, not 'whoops looks like all my bullets passed 45 degrees from you!". The gun feels like it's being handled by rookies from x-com ufo defense.

[This is Kibitt]

I think the RR should have a charge up time longer than 0.3s, but 0.6 is a tad exessive. I'm just saying that I manage to have fairly good KDA when I swap to my frontline Caldari suit, even at 60m ranges and I NEVER use that weapon. 50-60m range is not 'long' - my Scrambler Pistols can reach around 40-50m, and submachine guns hit around 30m (I'm pretty sure). Rail Rifle is almost literally uncontested in its native 80-100m range save for Scrambler/Laser Rifles, and if you're a pro at them- Mass Drivers.

A charge up of 0.45s would be manageable. I wouldn't want to drop below 0.4

Anyways, let's look at the laser rifle: Lacks windup, but has a similar drawback that is arguably even more severe as ammo is wasted, if you're not shooting at a wall you'll also broadcast location AND telegraph that you want to kill something right now. RR lacks most of those drawbacks.

The real threat to the RR is the ScR - it has HUGE burst DPS, and the heat 'drawback' is managed similarly to the kick on the RR. In general, the RR gets more range and killing potential due to bonus damage to armor. ScR is good for whittling enemies down or deleting low-hp/shield targets. The Assault ScR is a much shorter ranged weapon and doesn't really do the same thing the ARR does, mostly because dispersion is small but constant with the AScR, where you can get a quick kill in first few ARR shots. You'll find yourself using the AScR more like a semi-automatic than full auto at farther ranges.

In terms of gameplay mechanics and how they effect player experience, I'd say the spool time is sad for the reasons you've stated- it's a point in time where you are powerless, an observer unable to act. So I'm not all for huge spool times, but 0.4-0.5s is a reasonable tradeoff for the power of the weapon and promotes some forethought in gameplay. Also, 1/2 of a second is barely enough time for someone to take a single pace forwards or backwards, so it sounds like you are frustrated with people who cower and shiver behind insurmountable fortresses more than you are with the spool time.

Deathwind what part of "this was not based solely off of or even mostly upon, popularity" are you failing to comprehend?

The thing that was stated as concerning was the K/S rating, then the popularity is attributed to the K/S rating.

Popularity indicates to a dev "I should look at why."

If the weapon enjoys a 10 rail rifles for every assault rifle being run but they both average one kill per spawn then the weapons are in balance, people just like the rail rifle more.

Now if there's the same 10/1 ratio but there are 5 kills per spawn for the AR getting one kill per spawn then it's fairly obvious that something is out of whack.

Knock off the popularity contest bullsh*t. It's deceptive and disingenuous.

You don't like the change, fine. If you want it improved then make suggestions that don't involve "I want the old imbalance back."

Yes, please sweep away legitimate complaints about a weapon being unable to perform by labeling them as "QQ" Fox, that's a mature and adult thing to do instead of addressing complaints simply belittle the people who might make them.

I've been using the RR a lot recently.

And that delay really is problematic. I don't like firing my weapon when I dont think my shot will connect, and or I don't think I will immediately make the kill.
So I tend to fire my RR in bursts, or a small series of volleys, at the head. I find myself pre-firing around corners to compensate for the delay; and this is making me do exactly what I hate, shooting and missing.

When I pause firing to reacquire my target, the delay is debilitating, and the target has escaped.

The RR is losing even in engagements where it should be winning.
I'm in a Gal suit at range, shooting at a guy with with a scrambler who is in an Armor tanked Amarr suit, and he can put so many rounds into me before my RR spins up to cause damage, that even though I should have won on merits of sheer damage profile... I lose anyway because the gun is too slow.

This is AT RANGE, where the RR is supposed to dominate.

We have NO decent anti-armor DMR-style, semi-auto weapons in this game currently.
The ScR and the TAR are premiere semi-auto weapons, that are currently beating the RR at its own game.
There is nothing like the TAR or SCR, that is anti-armor.

We need to bring the hipfire kick back, and reduce the delay. Scrubs need to stop running RRs at close range.
And we need a proper DMR-style RR. A true Tactical Rail Rifle. Or a Charge Rail Rifle.

My problem is not that something is screwy.

I don't like the new RR either.

However my problem is with your assertions that it was a popular opinion nerf.

Dismissing the supporting data, which was shown, shows a lack of interest in balance and more interest in raging that your toy takin away.

If that is not your intent quit being a willful idiot by saying it was nerfed based on popularity.

Because the assertion is bull. The reasons were shown and the logic was sound even if IMHO the balance pass went wrong.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXRM3lFRwRI

It is obviously balanced, the RR now has an effective counter that requires us to have situational awareness, and to prefire at times so get good and you better bring a hive.

Much like our opposing faction the gallente where range is a constant concern the difference is that a RR user is still effective close range where a AR user has no options at long range so it looks to me that RR users still have an obvious advantage... So I would like to alter my earlier statement, the change was a effective way to balance the RR against other weapons, but the RR itself still is at an advantage so it is not balanced.

If they wanted to balance it further they could add much more hipfire kick,restore kick to ads, or increase kick progression.

Misquoting a dev is a bannable offense

The evidence was there. No amount of evidence will convince someone who refuses to listen.