Apparently the weapon was overperforming at CQC where it should have been 'less good' compared to other rifles.

But it wasn't.

The quadruple kick ruined the weapon in CQC.

I swapped to sidearm.

https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2425277#post2425277

I believe this is where people would think you meant that.

What he said is it was BOTH overpopular AND overpowered (in terms of K/S).

I made the same mistake you did when I read this post. You have to pay close attention to the colors in the K/S graph -- the RR was leading in K/S and far and away leading in usage.

If I may be so bold, it appears to me that Rattati was concerned with both.

What's more, I think you are out of line to suggest otherwise, much less thumb your nose in his face when called on it.

[This is Kibitt]

I think the RR should have a charge up time longer than 0.3s, but 0.6 is a tad exessive. I'm just saying that I manage to have fairly good KDA when I swap to my frontline Caldari suit, even at 60m ranges and I NEVER use that weapon. 50-60m range is not 'long' - my Scrambler Pistols can reach around 40-50m, and submachine guns hit around 30m (I'm pretty sure). Rail Rifle is almost literally uncontested in its native 80-100m range save for Scrambler/Laser Rifles, and if you're a pro at them- Mass Drivers.

A charge up of 0.45s would be manageable. I wouldn't want to drop below 0.4

Anyways, let's look at the laser rifle: Lacks windup, but has a similar drawback that is arguably even more severe as ammo is wasted, if you're not shooting at a wall you'll also broadcast location AND telegraph that you want to kill something right now. RR lacks most of those drawbacks.

The real threat to the RR is the ScR - it has HUGE burst DPS, and the heat 'drawback' is managed similarly to the kick on the RR. In general, the RR gets more range and killing potential due to bonus damage to armor. ScR is good for whittling enemies down or deleting low-hp/shield targets. The Assault ScR is a much shorter ranged weapon and doesn't really do the same thing the ARR does, mostly because dispersion is small but constant with the AScR, where you can get a quick kill in first few ARR shots. You'll find yourself using the AScR more like a semi-automatic than full auto at farther ranges.

In terms of gameplay mechanics and how they effect player experience, I'd say the spool time is sad for the reasons you've stated- it's a point in time where you are powerless, an observer unable to act. So I'm not all for huge spool times, but 0.4-0.5s is a reasonable tradeoff for the power of the weapon and promotes some forethought in gameplay. Also, 1/2 of a second is barely enough time for someone to take a single pace forwards or backwards, so it sounds like you are frustrated with people who cower and shiver behind insurmountable fortresses more than you are with the spool time.

Deathwind what part of "this was not based solely off of or even mostly upon, popularity" are you failing to comprehend?

The thing that was stated as concerning was the K/S rating, then the popularity is attributed to the K/S rating.

Popularity indicates to a dev "I should look at why."

If the weapon enjoys a 10 rail rifles for every assault rifle being run but they both average one kill per spawn then the weapons are in balance, people just like the rail rifle more.

Now if there's the same 10/1 ratio but there are 5 kills per spawn for the AR getting one kill per spawn then it's fairly obvious that something is out of whack.

Knock off the popularity contest bullsh*t. It's deceptive and disingenuous.

You don't like the change, fine. If you want it improved then make suggestions that don't involve "I want the old imbalance back."

My problem is not that something is screwy.

I don't like the new RR either.

However my problem is with your assertions that it was a popular opinion nerf.

Dismissing the supporting data, which was shown, shows a lack of interest in balance and more interest in raging that your toy takin away.

If that is not your intent quit being a willful idiot by saying it was nerfed based on popularity.

Because the assertion is bull. The reasons were shown and the logic was sound even if IMHO the balance pass went wrong.

You're looking at guns in a vaccuum, and that is doomed to be a flawed perspective. You're not going to land every hit by mashing the trigger button on an ScR and it is likely to blast heat in your face if you decide to do that. That range statement is false- RR has best range, and there are times in my Amarr Commando where I can't hit the RR users because of that. As for the fact that ScR eats shields, the Amarrians could whine that my Minmatar Assault easily kills them with ACR while managing to be much more agile and thus able to escape when situations go bad. Just what DO you put in those Cal low slots? Kincats and cardiacs? If so, then you know why scramblers eat you up.

My next statement has great relevance to Fox's "precognition" AND your "first second" calculations:
That situation where you are 100% caught off-guard is a losing situation with almost any other weapon in the game, which means you aren't looking at the enemy shooting you. It takes time to turn and find that enemy, then aim with any gun and that will prevent other weapons from being strictly superior to the RR. Going along with this, scanning is extremely powerful at the moment (as are heavies) so I would expect RR popularity to decrease once that gets nerfed because (in the eyes of one who loves Minmatar Scout) everyone DOES have precognition.

If DUST literally had 1 dimension and time vs 3 and time, then I would take what you said completely seriously. Also, while a lot can happen in one second, this game is awesome to me because it has strategy over a longer period than fractions of a second. That is more enjoyable to me than who hits the trigger first, in, say, Destiny. I swear, even if you suck at aiming in that game, everything gets headshots and that bothers me.

Meh, I wanna edit my post over and over but I'm just gonna put it out and see how it goes over.

So, in terms of racial fits, do you fit your assault like so-

Assault C/1-series! (just advanced, not proto)

HIGHS: 2x Proto Extender, Adv Energizer, Adv Light Weapon Enhancer
LOWS: Proto Shield Regulator, Proto Reactive Plate
Light Weapon - Rail RIfle
Sidearm - Magsec (I prefer this one, you can use Bolt if you like but it's silly considering you're weak CQC)
Equipment - Nanite Injector/Nanohive

99% of the time I'd want Nanite injector, but if you know the match will become a camping session, better set up that tent properly, yeah?

Anyways, that fit gives you 3-4s delay for roughly 49 HP/s recharge, so your entire shield bar comes back in 14s after being fully depleted, and you're allowed to bleed a little armor damage here and there. TBH if the enemy comes near, you'll want to use the Magsec anyways for its higher DPS alone, not counting its lower kick and spool-up time.

I can't tell you how many times I've died with a 900 EHP Amarr Commando suit in about a second to a single scout with an ACR, or how many times I've been a Min Assault killing a 1k EHP Sentinel with my ACR. This whole "I AM DEAD AND FEEL THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO!" is not specific to just your Cal suit trying to fend off Amarrian laz0rs, just rest easy knowing that plenty of people feel that way when you shoot them dead, too.

As I said- I want the spool time reduced to around 0.4-0.45s, but sometimes I can't resist talking about how truly diverse and interactive the gameplay is, and often will get lost in that.

Doubt it. People in this thread are deliberately misrepresenting his words and basically trying to rally people to the cause of making him out to be an idiot.

While the dislike of the RR changes is fine, people are deliberately attacking Rattati by misquoting him, using his words out of context and using false information to push their otherwise valid cocerns.

The tactics being used are juvenile, transparent and bluntly insulting to anyone who has tried to leave the schoolyard behind them in their adult life.

This thread holds no value to the community.

And when the people involved are called on this behavior and the fact that they are violating the TOS and they are using patently false information they excuse their bluntly obnoxious behavior with straight asspulls of logic to make everyone else the ones at fault.

Bluntly there are no less than four posters who should have been banned for deliberately misrepresenting the words of the devs to create a riot on the forums.

The fact that they haven't been banned is nothing short of amazing.

Yup. Click my name. Find out everything about me in two pages of responses.

Confirming I never give suggestions, make proposals on PC, Faction Warfare, sentinel balance, AV, ADS nerfs and where they fall apart with recommendations on how to adjust.

I never provide meaningful feedback on logistics or commandos because I'm too busy trolling.

I have never stated that I find the neutering of HAVs detrimental to the game or provided suggestions on how to rebalance forge guns so that the breach and standard are useful at something other than ghetto sniper.

I have never weighed in seriously on the problems inherent to the RR and AR.

Totally never contribute meaningfully to anything ever.

I just occupy myself calling people on their bullsh*t.

Confirming that my commentary has no basis on theinterest in a healthy game or sane community.

By the way, the acknowledgement of misrepresenting Rattati's words and moving along with productive discussion was all that I wanted from this.

You did that. Im done poking at you now.