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Espla El espia
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2014.11.21 07:26:00 -
[1] - Quote
Fox Gaden wrote:
I don't think it really makes sense to have a different charge time for hip fire and ADS. It is not like the internal workings of the gun are effected by how you hold it. The difference in kick and dispersion is do to you stabilizing the guy with your shoulder when you ADS.
Rail Rifle currently has a charge time of 0.6 seconds, which is ridiculous. It should be no more than 0.3 seconds.
The Rail Rifle should have better zoom in ADS than the Assault Rail Rifle.
The Rail Rifle should have more kick and more dispersion in hip fire mode than the Assault Rail Rifle.
The Rail Rifle should have more range than the Assault Rail Rifle.
The Rail Rifle should do less DPS than the Assault Rail Rifle.
[This is Kibitt]
I think the RR should have a charge up time longer than 0.3s, but 0.6 is a tad exessive. I'm just saying that I manage to have fairly good KDA when I swap to my frontline Caldari suit, even at 60m ranges and I NEVER use that weapon. 50-60m range is not 'long' - my Scrambler Pistols can reach around 40-50m, and submachine guns hit around 30m (I'm pretty sure). Rail Rifle is almost literally uncontested in its native 80-100m range save for Scrambler/Laser Rifles, and if you're a pro at them- Mass Drivers.
A charge up of 0.45s would be manageable. I wouldn't want to drop below 0.4
Anyways, let's look at the laser rifle: Lacks windup, but has a similar drawback that is arguably even more severe as ammo is wasted, if you're not shooting at a wall you'll also broadcast location AND telegraph that you want to kill something right now. RR lacks most of those drawbacks.
The real threat to the RR is the ScR - it has HUGE burst DPS, and the heat 'drawback' is managed similarly to the kick on the RR. In general, the RR gets more range and killing potential due to bonus damage to armor. ScR is good for whittling enemies down or deleting low-hp/shield targets. The Assault ScR is a much shorter ranged weapon and doesn't really do the same thing the ARR does, mostly because dispersion is small but constant with the AScR, where you can get a quick kill in first few ARR shots. You'll find yourself using the AScR more like a semi-automatic than full auto at farther ranges.
In terms of gameplay mechanics and how they effect player experience, I'd say the spool time is sad for the reasons you've stated- it's a point in time where you are powerless, an observer unable to act. So I'm not all for huge spool times, but 0.4-0.5s is a reasonable tradeoff for the power of the weapon and promotes some forethought in gameplay. Also, 1/2 of a second is barely enough time for someone to take a single pace forwards or backwards, so it sounds like you are frustrated with people who cower and shiver behind insurmountable fortresses more than you are with the spool time. |
Espla El espia
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 15:11:00 -
[2] - Quote
Blueprint For Murder wrote:Jacques Cayton II wrote:I'm waitng for the rr haters to get in here and say its balanced. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eXRM3lFRwRIIt is obviously balanced, the RR now has an effective counter that requires us to have situational awareness, and to prefire at times so get good and you better bring a hive. Much like our opposing faction the gallente where range is a constant concern the difference is that a RR user is still effective close range where a AR user has no options at long range so it looks to me that RR users still have an obvious advantage... So I would like to alter my earlier statement, the change was a effective way to balance the RR against other weapons, but the RR itself still is at an advantage so it is not balanced. If they wanted to balance it further they could add much more hipfire kick,restore kick to ads, or increase kick progression.
I agree. The most common weapon by far used to be RR, and I'm happy to be seeing other weapons (namely ACR and ScR) being used, but in all honesty there are still tons of RR's in most matches I play- even the CQC matches. |
Espla El espia
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 23:58:00 -
[3] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:
not to mention that the ScR can kill you before you can fire a round. RR on caldari... i see Scr and i HAVE to run or i die.
ScR is what? +700 dps? plus 20% against shields. even if you bricked your shield on caldari assault, itd still kill you in one second unless you dual tank with plates. you cant run a racial fit against it. now look at the RR charge up time. in that first second, youll be doingwhat? 100 dps? aginst shields too most likely so youre looking at 90 damage vs +700 dps. this is at ALL ranges too lol. so yea... theres a huge balancing problem there.
You're looking at guns in a vaccuum, and that is doomed to be a flawed perspective. You're not going to land every hit by mashing the trigger button on an ScR and it is likely to blast heat in your face if you decide to do that. That range statement is false- RR has best range, and there are times in my Amarr Commando where I can't hit the RR users because of that. As for the fact that ScR eats shields, the Amarrians could whine that my Minmatar Assault easily kills them with ACR while managing to be much more agile and thus able to escape when situations go bad. Just what DO you put in those Cal low slots? Kincats and cardiacs? If so, then you know why scramblers eat you up.
My next statement has great relevance to Fox's "precognition" AND your "first second" calculations:
That situation where you are 100% caught off-guard is a losing situation with almost any other weapon in the game, which means you aren't looking at the enemy shooting you. It takes time to turn and find that enemy, then aim with any gun and that will prevent other weapons from being strictly superior to the RR. Going along with this, scanning is extremely powerful at the moment (as are heavies) so I would expect RR popularity to decrease once that gets nerfed because (in the eyes of one who loves Minmatar Scout) everyone DOES have precognition.
If DUST literally had 1 dimension and time vs 3 and time, then I would take what you said completely seriously. Also, while a lot can happen in one second, this game is awesome to me because it has strategy over a longer period than fractions of a second. That is more enjoyable to me than who hits the trigger first, in, say, Destiny. I swear, even if you suck at aiming in that game, everything gets headshots and that bothers me.
Meh, I wanna edit my post over and over but I'm just gonna put it out and see how it goes over. |
Espla El espia
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
1
|
Posted - 2014.11.22 07:45:00 -
[4] - Quote
DeathwindRising wrote:
the issue is that because the RR has lower dps than other rifles, you have to shoot first everytime. you cant even win if you both start shooting at the same time because the RR has a delay. so everyone else gets a head start in the dps race and RR is the slowest of all. you cant win.
the RR has the best range but you have to sacrifice sustained fire to take advantage of it. the kick and recoil wont let get accurate hits at range beyond the ScR. and at those ranges, the Scr can simply charge shot you. so neither weapon will get perfect hits but the hits coming from the ScR rquired to kill me a far less than the number to kill me
as a disclaimer im only talking about racial fits
So, in terms of racial fits, do you fit your assault like so-
Assault C/1-series! (just advanced, not proto)
HIGHS: 2x Proto Extender, Adv Energizer, Adv Light Weapon Enhancer
LOWS: Proto Shield Regulator, Proto Reactive Plate
Light Weapon - Rail RIfle
Sidearm - Magsec (I prefer this one, you can use Bolt if you like but it's silly considering you're weak CQC)
Equipment - Nanite Injector/Nanohive
99% of the time I'd want Nanite injector, but if you know the match will become a camping session, better set up that tent properly, yeah?
Anyways, that fit gives you 3-4s delay for roughly 49 HP/s recharge, so your entire shield bar comes back in 14s after being fully depleted, and you're allowed to bleed a little armor damage here and there. TBH if the enemy comes near, you'll want to use the Magsec anyways for its higher DPS alone, not counting its lower kick and spool-up time.
I can't tell you how many times I've died with a 900 EHP Amarr Commando suit in about a second to a single scout with an ACR, or how many times I've been a Min Assault killing a 1k EHP Sentinel with my ACR. This whole "I AM DEAD AND FEEL THERE IS NOTHING I CAN DO!" is not specific to just your Cal suit trying to fend off Amarrian laz0rs, just rest easy knowing that plenty of people feel that way when you shoot them dead, too.
As I said- I want the spool time reduced to around 0.4-0.45s, but sometimes I can't resist talking about how truly diverse and interactive the gameplay is, and often will get lost in that. |
Espla El espia
Chatelain Rapid Response
Gallente Federation
2
|
Posted - 2014.11.23 01:42:00 -
[5] - Quote
Sequal Rise wrote:Devs only respond with sarcasm or jokes these days. But they don't seem to care about anything important, only BS or "That's not what I said.. blablabla" 
I don't think that is a fair statement to make. Their job is to crank out content and they've done it remarkably well and at a good and deliberate pace. I enjoy joking about how EVE Online gets less PvP fine-tuning, whereas DUST has loads of it and it's generally of higher quality.
Granted, EVE Online is a very different game and so my joke isn't fair to the members of CCP that work on it, but I realize this and refuse to harangue them for my joke.
I don't presume to know why they reply to those comments, but looking at his last few comments I believe your statement is unfounded.
After having tried the RR again for a few matches, it hits enemies really easily compared to ScR, and the delay is a little bit of a nuisance. I'd like to see Caldari Assaults get a reduction in charge time bonus, either 3 or 4%, with the RR being 0.5s spool time. |
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