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The breach is following the same trend as the burst HMG

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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2855	Posted - 2014.11.17 03:26:00 - [1] - Quote Please balance it. "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Green Living Gallente Gay Swag Club 1274	Posted - 2014.11.17 04:11:00 - [2] - Quote Very constructive post.
MrShooter01 Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 1058	Posted - 2014.11.17 04:20:00 - [3] - Quote There is no reason for me to use a normal AR or SMG over their breach counterparts, they have no significant drawback. The breach SMG in particular is pretty much a straight upgrade over the normal SMG. I get the same DPS, same range, with significantly more damage per magazine and effectively increased total ammo reserves as well, thanks to the much higher damage per shot. And to top it all off, they're easier to control and land hits with
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 1923	Posted - 2014.11.17 04:23:00 - [4] - Quote MrShooter01 wrote: There is no reason for me to use a normal AR or SMG over their breach counterparts, they have no significant drawback. The breach SMG in particular is pretty much a straight upgrade over the normal SMG. I get the same DPS, same range, with significantly more damage per magazine and effectively increased total ammo reserves as well, thanks to the much higher damage per shot. And to top it all off, they're easier to control and land hits with its stupid.. i thought normal would be like standard.. then breach the higher damage per bullet lower ROF longer range smg but its DPS lower.. and the assault smg be the faster ROF lower damage per shot but overall higher DPS and shorter range smg.. its just weird its like they didnt even balance the varients against the stock weapon. [[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]] All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
Cody Sietz Random Gunz RISE of LEGION 4114	Posted - 2014.11.17 04:43:00 - [5] - Quote It's the best Plasma rifle for sure, but I think it's just cause the rest aren't that great(besides the TAR, that thing is decent at medium range but awful for close range) The assault plasma rifle is ok, but is outdone by so many rifles and weapons that aren't even classified as CQC. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
DarthPlagueis TheWise 412	Posted - 2014.11.17 05:09:00 - [6] - Quote I still think CR outdoes it in close quarters. Even ScR performs just as well if not better. I've been using the AR for a year now and I'd much rather have a different rifle. F*k this cash grab fix the shit that matters: unkillable uplinks, invisible remotes on null cannon hack panels, etc.
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 974	Posted - 2014.11.17 05:10:00 - [7] - Quote Oh yeah, the BAR seriously is as bad as a weapon that -literally- melted every light and medium suit in a single trigger pull when on target, it's just that good. How dare a CQC weapon shine in CQC for more than 2 weeks after well over a year of disuse, nerf it immediately. /sarcasm It's powerful yeah, but old BHMG levels of OP? I don't think so. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Meeko Fent Kirkinen Risk Control Caldari State 2090	Posted - 2014.11.17 05:20:00 - [8] - Quote It's fine. The rifles are all fine. Leave them alone. Just because it's good and all the maps are setup for what it's good in doesn't make it OP. Jesus, nobody remembers the last time the breach got "fixed"? Admittingly, it was crazy then, but it got POUNDED back then. Because you wanted to be something you're not.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4599	Posted - 2014.11.17 05:25:00 - [9] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Oh yeah, the BAR seriously is as bad as a weapon that -literally- melted every light and medium suit in a single trigger pull when on target, it's just that good. How dare a CQC weapon shine in CQC for more than 2 weeks after well over a year of disuse, nerf it immediately. /sarcasm It's powerful yeah, but old BHMG levels of OP? I don't think so. I don't think anyone is asserting that...if they are they are fuggin dumb. Is it strong? Yes. Does it need a nerf? I think so. What should that nerf be? Clip size...reload speed lengthened if a clip reduction doesn't do the trick. The DPS is actually fine...it's how long that DPS is sustainable...and how easy it is to do that DPS at ranges I don't know that the breach was intended for Like i've said elsewhere...what is this weapon's goal/purpose? What is it's intended range? Should it be the best CQC variant as opposed to the higher dispersion/kick 'normal' AR? Should it be able to apply it's damage better than the regular ar at >15m if it IS a CQC weapon? This sort of consensus/answer helps a lot in these kinds of conversations. Breach should NOT be nerfed into the ground...people like you have been waiting WAAAAAY too damn long for it to be brought back. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 1120	Posted - 2014.11.17 05:33:00 - [10] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: What should that nerf be? Clip size...reload speed lengthened if a clip reduction doesn't do the trick. The DPS is actually fine...it's how long that DPS is sustainable...and how easy it is to do that DPS at ranges I don't know that the breach was intended for This is the exact issues with it. It just needs its mag reduced to 32 instead of 36, and its rance dropped to 40m instead of 44. That would give it the same damage per mag, DPS and range as the regular AR. Please, make my Opus pretty...

Kensai Dragon Dust University Ivy League 70	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:14:00 - [11] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: What should that nerf be? Clip size...reload speed lengthened if a clip reduction doesn't do the trick. The DPS is actually fine...it's how long that DPS is sustainable...and how easy it is to do that DPS at ranges I don't know that the breach was intended for This is the exact issues with it. It just needs its mag reduced to 32 instead of 36, and its rance dropped to 40m instead of 44. That would give it the same damage per mag, DPS and range as the regular AR. You make it the same as a regular AR, then what's the point? Admittedly I'm not well versed in Dust rifles, but each variant should fill out different roles, right?
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 976	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:29:00 - [12] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: What should that nerf be? Clip size...reload speed lengthened if a clip reduction doesn't do the trick. The DPS is actually fine...it's how long that DPS is sustainable...and how easy it is to do that DPS at ranges I don't know that the breach was intended for This is the exact issues with it. It just needs its mag reduced to 32 instead of 36, and its rance dropped to 40m instead of 44. That would give it the same damage per mag, DPS and range as the regular AR. But then why use one or the other? Weapon choice should not be cosmetic. Give it a fair bit more range and hit the DPS slightly. Enough so that it's more than the RR and less than the AR. That's what the gun is anyway, it's the Gallente variant of the Caldari RR. Hell, let me throw some numbers around as a guideline to show. Basic AR DPS is 412, Basic RR DPS is 361. Drop the base damage per bullet of the basic BAR to be 54.2 which would give it a DPS of 387, nice and in the middle. Advanced AR DPS is 432, Advanced RR DPS is 379. Drop the base damage per bullet of the Advanced BAR to be 56.8 which would give it a DPS of 406. Proto AR DPS is 453, Proto RR DPS is 397. Drop the base damage per bullet of the Proto BAR to be59.5 which would give the Proto BAR a DPS of 425. Then give the BAR 10 meters of effective/optimal over the AR, (which is still 15 less than the RR) and you have yourselves a solid step in the direction of balance. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4602	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:36:00 - [13] - Quote Is it supposed to be like the RR? I thought that was what the TAC was for? B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 976	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:38:00 - [14] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Is it supposed to be like the RR? I thought that was what the TAC was for? TAC is the scrambler m8. And burst is the CR. They were all the original 'placeholders' now considered variants. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Imp Smash Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 401	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:40:00 - [15] - Quote It's a breach. IF CCP nerfed it I would say make it a sidegrade. Focus it more on a role -- so a reasonable percent shorter range than the AR but better DPS so it's the THE go to close quarters AR. As a few other posters said -- making it almost identical to the AR seems...odd.
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4602	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:42:00 - [16] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Is it supposed to be like the RR? I thought that was what the TAC was for? TAC is the scrambler m8. And burst is the CR. They were all the original 'placeholders' now considered variants. Wut...But the SCR is a high DPS, high clip...overheat based weapon that performs perfectly in CQC and at range.. The Tac needs considerable changes if it's going to be considered the alternative SCR. I agree on the CR/Burst comparison. Anyone else want to validate/contest the idea that the breach is the RR placeholder? B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
DildoMcnutz WarRavens Capital Punishment. 530	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:43:00 - [17] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Is it supposed to be like the RR? I thought that was what the TAC was for? Isn't the tac like the scrambler rifle? I thought assault was gallente Burst minmatar Tactical Ammar Breach caldari Da only good Amarr is a ded Amarr, an de ony fing betta than a ded one, is a dyin one who tells ya were 'is mates is!
Minmatar Mercenary 9292 WarRavens Capital Punishment. 530	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:43:00 - [18] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Is it supposed to be like the RR? I thought that was what the TAC was for? Isn't the tac like the scrambler rifle? I thought assault was gallente Burst minmatar Tactical Ammar Breach caldari Da only good Amarr is a ded Amarr, an de ony fing betta than a ded one, is a dyin one who tells ya were 'is mates is!
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 977	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:47:00 - [19] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Is it supposed to be like the RR? I thought that was what the TAC was for? TAC is the scrambler m8. And burst is the CR. They were all the original 'placeholders' now considered variants. Wut...But the SCR is a high DPS, high clip...overheat based weapon that performs perfectly in CQC and at range.. The Tac needs considerable changes if it's going to be considered the alternative SCR. I agree on the CR/Burst comparison. Anyone else want to validate/contest the idea that the breach is the RR placeholder? TAC AR is single fire, high alpha/DPS, long range weapon like the ScR that only has a lower clip size because it was OP before. Used to have something like 42 bullets way back in the day. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3130	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:47:00 - [20] - Quote Easier solution: Buff the range of regular AR. Nerf the range of breach. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 301	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:49:00 - [21] - Quote jhon hartigan wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: That's probably why Missile launchers on Pythons as a combo rank number 4 in PC kills, and the Proto XT-1 Missile Launcher ranks top 4 of PC kills, for the last two weeks Kills Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Weapons, Light, Combat Rifles, Prototype, Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Six Kin Burst Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Rail Rifles, Prototype, Kaalakiota Rail Rifle Kills by Actor(Pawn) and Weapon Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ak.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel gk.0& Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0&Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Vehicles, Dropships, Assault, Python& Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0& Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ck.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Vehicles, Heavy Attack Vehicles, Standard, Gunnlogi&Turrets, Railgun, Large, Prototype, 80GJ Particle Cannon I'll just leave this here... The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Her Chosen Grade No.2 48	Posted - 2014.11.17 06:54:00 - [22] - Quote How is it unbalanced as compared to RRs, SCRs, TacARs, etc? Just because it kills you slighty more doesn't make it unbalanced. Its not OP or unbalanced. Burst HMG was actually an example of OP. It had a 3,000+ DPS. TTK with breach is no different than RR, SCR, or even an Ion or Scrambler Pistol... Prove its unbalanced with math and simple rock, paper, scissors logic. Prove its OP with its DPS.
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 979	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:12:00 - [23] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: How is it unbalanced as compared to RRs, SCRs, TacARs, etc? Just because it kills you slighty more doesn't make it unbalanced. Its not OP or unbalanced. Burst HMG was actually an example of OP. It had a 3,000+ DPS. TTK with breach is no different than RR, SCR, or even an Ion or Scrambler Pistol... Prove its unbalanced with math and simple rock, paper, scissors logic. Prove its OP with its DPS. As a avid BAR supporter, it functions as a rock, paper and scissor by having nothing that it's the worst at and many things that it is the best at. -It doesn't have a spool up. -It doesn't overheat. -It has the highest DPS of all automatic weaponry . -The second highest accuracy behind the AScR, but the AScR has considerably more recoil. -Third highest damage per clip behind the AScR and ARR. But the ARR is less accurate, has more recoil, and has a spool up time while the AScR has considerably more recoil and overheats before you can use the whole clip. -Still doesn't have a bad range. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4604	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:19:00 - [24] - Quote Her Chosen wrote: Words Please don't ever take anything this reject says as anything containing substance. All you should ever do when you see his name is ask him about the time he said he was the greatest FPS player of all time. PSA provided courtesy of Zatara Rought B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 301	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:24:00 - [25] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: jhon hartigan wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: That's probably why Missile launchers on Pythons as a combo rank number 4 in PC kills, and the Proto XT-1 Missile Launcher ranks top 4 of PC kills, for the last two weeks Kills Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Weapons, Light, Combat Rifles, Prototype, Six Kin Assault Combat Rifle Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Six Kin Burst Heavy Machine Gun Weapons, Light, Rail Rifles, Prototype, Kaalakiota Rail Rifle Kills by Actor(Pawn) and Weapon Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ak.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel gk.0& Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0&Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, Duvolle Specialist Shotgun Vehicles, Dropships, Assault, Python& Turrets, Missile, Small, Prototype, XT-1 Missile Launcher Dropsuits, Light, Scout, Prototype, Scout gk.0& Weapons, Light, Shotguns, Prototype, CreoDron Shotgun Dropsuits, Heavy, Sentinel, Prototype, Sentinel ck.0&Weapons, Heavy, Heavy Machine Guns, Prototype, Boundless Heavy Machine Gun Vehicles, Heavy Attack Vehicles, Standard, Gunnlogi&Turrets, Railgun, Large, Prototype, 80GJ Particle Cannon I'll just leave this here... They should require a IQ test to be a CPM. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4604	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:26:00 - [26] - Quote IF the BAR is to be like the SCR then it would seem fit to lower clip size and increase reload to operate in similar fashion to the SCR's overheat mechanic? I'd still like opinions from others: What weapon should the Breach take it's queue's from? What should it's purpose be? B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
TEBOW BAGGINS GREATNESS ACHIEVED THRU TROLLING 1352	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:31:00 - [27] - Quote clip size nerf yes, reload speed nerf no- not fair to the ppl who skilled into reload speed AKA Zirzo Valcyn AFKing since 2012
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 1120	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:34:00 - [28] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: IF the BAR is to be like the SCR then it would seem fit to lower clip size and increase reload to operate in similar fashion to the SCR's overheat mechanic? I'd still like opinions from others: What weapon should the Breach take it's queue's from? What should it's purpose be? Its supposed to behave like the RR. A lot of people think that means its supposed to be long range as well, but Breach weapons aren't actually long range. They're slow firing, and hard hitting compared to the normal variant. None of the breach variant weapons actually have a longer range than their normal variant... Please, make my Opus pretty...
Dubber Rucky 15	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:39:00 - [29] - Quote The breach was always good, just no one was using it. I was using it on a militia heavy months ago.........then i stop using because i didn't want people to know.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8488	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:41:00 - [30] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: IF the BAR is to be like the SCR then it would seem fit to lower clip size and increase reload to operate in similar fashion to the SCR's overheat mechanic? I'd still like opinions from others: What weapon should the Breach take it's queue's from? What should it's purpose be? I always paired the Tactical rifle to the Scrambler Rifle. It's a Gallente weapon. It's a Variant It's not going to behave exactly like the Scrambler Rifle but it does have some common ground. High Alpha Long range. And that's about all that you're going to have without it becoming OP. Damage per mag is going to be low because if it had a large mag that'd be OP and nobody wants that. The Duvolle Tactical has no overheat function but it does Kick like a mule and has a low mag size so I find it a decent trade off. As far as the Breach goes I'd be alright with a Damage Nerf but only if it got a range increase. Since we are trying to match like weapons with their variants the Breach should perform more like the Rail then. Considerably more range than the Plasma Rifle, less range than the assault but less damage than the Plasma Rifle and more DPS than the Rail. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.

Zatara Rought Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4604	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:45:00 - [31] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: [quote=Zatara Rought] I always paired the Tactical rifle to the Scrambler Rifle. It's a Gallente weapon. It's a Variant It's not going to behave exactly like the Scrambler Rifle but it does have some common ground. High Alpha Long range. And that's about all that you're going to have without it becoming OP. Damage per mag is going to be low because if it had a large mag that'd be OP and nobody wants that. The Duvolle Tactical has no overheat function but it does Kick like a mule and has a low mag size so I find it a decent trade off. As far as the Breach goes I'd be alright with a Damage Nerf but only if it got a range increase. Since we are trying to match like weapons with their variants the Breach should perform more like the Rail then. Considerably more range than the Plasma Rifle, less range than the assault but less damage than the Plasma Rifle and more DPS than the Rail. If it's going to act like the RR then it needs to be worthless in CQC. So high dispersion when not ADS or hipfire kick. It also has no charge up mechanic so it needs to be balanced against that as well. B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA They call me ~Princess Zatata~ Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 981	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:49:00 - [32] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: [quote=Zatara Rought] I always paired the Tactical rifle to the Scrambler Rifle. It's a Gallente weapon. It's a Variant It's not going to behave exactly like the Scrambler Rifle but it does have some common ground. High Alpha Long range. And that's about all that you're going to have without it becoming OP. Damage per mag is going to be low because if it had a large mag that'd be OP and nobody wants that. The Duvolle Tactical has no overheat function but it does Kick like a mule and has a low mag size so I find it a decent trade off. As far as the Breach goes I'd be alright with a Damage Nerf but only if it got a range increase. Since we are trying to match like weapons with their variants the Breach should perform more like the Rail then. Considerably more range than the Plasma Rifle, less range than the assault but less damage than the Plasma Rifle and more DPS than the Rail. If it's going to act like the RR then it needs to be worthless in CQC. So high dispersion when not ADS or hipfire kick. It also has no charge up mechanic so it needs to be balanced against that as well. Hence the markedly lower DPS post I made earlier. Not asking for it to hit for 100% out to 70 meters, just give it 10 more than the basic AR which is still less than even the CR. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3550	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:55:00 - [33] - Quote Doesn't the breach have the same DPS as a standard Assault Rifle? Not to mention . . . Identical Ranges Similar TTE Similar Dispersion and Kick Identical Reload Times Identical Damage Profile Prehaps before we try nerfing it into the ground we should be trying to figure out why it's outperforming it's twin brother in the same situation. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 8488	Posted - 2014.11.17 07:56:00 - [34] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Sgt Kirk wrote: [quote=Zatara Rought] I always paired the Tactical rifle to the Scrambler Rifle. It's a Gallente weapon. It's a Variant It's not going to behave exactly like the Scrambler Rifle but it does have some common ground. High Alpha Long range. And that's about all that you're going to have without it becoming OP. Damage per mag is going to be low because if it had a large mag that'd be OP and nobody wants that. The Duvolle Tactical has no overheat function but it does Kick like a mule and has a low mag size so I find it a decent trade off. As far as the Breach goes I'd be alright with a Damage Nerf but only if it got a range increase. Since we are trying to match like weapons with their variants the Breach should perform more like the Rail then. Considerably more range than the Plasma Rifle, less range than the assault but less damage than the Plasma Rifle and more DPS than the Rail. If it's going to act like the RR then it needs to be worthless in CQC. So high dispersion when not ADS or hipfire kick. It also has no charge up mechanic so it needs to be balanced against that as well. Hence the markedly lower DPS post I made earlier. Not asking for it to hit for 100% out to 70 meters, just give it 10 more than the basic AR which is still less than even the CR. I was pretty sure I said, or at least implied, that the breach I'd like would have decreased DPS as well. Hell, it's not like we're asking for the Breach to do 90% at 100 meters. CCP holds the Caldari's hand so this doesn't happen again.
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 301	Posted - 2014.11.17 08:02:00 - [35] - Quote First it doesn't over preform I use the standard over it and In my kill feed rarely shows up. The difference in the two rifles is the dispersion obviously which makes it better at it max and poor at CQC. If it over preformed it would be on the PC kill list period. These mouth breathers are just shocked that an AR can kill them at mid range. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
CommanderBolt KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 2489	Posted - 2014.11.17 08:22:00 - [36] - Quote Its ok talking about raw dps numbers but we must remember that many other factors take priority in the real game of dust. Take the RR for instance. It has always had less DPS than most weapons, now more than ever. However it was popular for many reasons. The range was fantastic, its easy of use to stay on targets at range, the general feel of the weapon. Lets also not forget some weapons are 'scoped' (basically CCP reduce the field of view while aiming down the sight so that things appear to be closer.....hence scope zoom) While DPS numbers tells us one thing, maps and the level layout can appeal to certain play-styles and weapon roles. Weapon handling, damage per mag, damage total for all ammo as well as cosmetic / scopes all play a part too. "Also I think knives are a good idea, big f**k-off shiny ones" "Guns for show, Knives for a pro" MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound RISE of LEGION 2180	Posted - 2014.11.17 08:37:00 - [37] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Oh yeah, the BAR seriously is as bad as a weapon that -literally- melted every light and medium suit in a single trigger pull when on target, it's just that good. How dare a CQC weapon shine in CQC for more than 2 weeks after well over a year of disuse, nerf it immediately. /sarcasm It's powerful yeah, but old BHMG levels of OP? I don't think so. I don't think anyone is asserting that...if they are they are fuggin dumb. Is it strong? Yes. Does it need a nerf? I think so. What should that nerf be? Clip size...reload speed lengthened if a clip reduction doesn't do the trick. The DPS is actually fine...it's how long that DPS is sustainable...and how easy it is to do that DPS at ranges I don't know that the breach was intended for Like i've said elsewhere...what is this weapon's goal/purpose? What is it's intended range? Should it be the best CQC variant as opposed to the higher dispersion/kick 'normal' AR? Should it be able to apply it's damage better than the regular ar at >15m if it IS a CQC weapon? This sort of consensus/answer helps a lot in these kinds of conversations. Breach should NOT be nerfed into the ground...people like you have been waiting WAAAAAY too damn long for it to be brought back. See, the breach AR is the Gallente mimicing the RR. So shouldnt we buff the range and nerf the DPS? Proof that Rattati/CCP do listen to the playerbase.
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 1121	Posted - 2014.11.17 08:57:00 - [38] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Oh yeah, the BAR seriously is as bad as a weapon that -literally- melted every light and medium suit in a single trigger pull when on target, it's just that good. How dare a CQC weapon shine in CQC for more than 2 weeks after well over a year of disuse, nerf it immediately. /sarcasm It's powerful yeah, but old BHMG levels of OP? I don't think so. I don't think anyone is asserting that...if they are they are fuggin dumb. Is it strong? Yes. Does it need a nerf? I think so. What should that nerf be? Clip size...reload speed lengthened if a clip reduction doesn't do the trick. The DPS is actually fine...it's how long that DPS is sustainable...and how easy it is to do that DPS at ranges I don't know that the breach was intended for Like i've said elsewhere...what is this weapon's goal/purpose? What is it's intended range? Should it be the best CQC variant as opposed to the higher dispersion/kick 'normal' AR? Should it be able to apply it's damage better than the regular ar at >15m if it IS a CQC weapon? This sort of consensus/answer helps a lot in these kinds of conversations. Breach should NOT be nerfed into the ground...people like you have been waiting WAAAAAY too damn long for it to be brought back. See, the breach AR is the Gallente mimicing the RR. So shouldnt we buff the range and nerf the DPS? No. See above. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 1122	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:07:00 - [39] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Doesn't the breach have the same DPS as a standard Assault Rifle? Not to mention . . . Identical Ranges Similar TTE Similar Dispersion and Kick Identical Reload Times Identical Damage Profile Prehaps before we try nerfing it into the ground we should be trying to figure out why it's outperforming it's twin brother in the same situation. Many of those things you mentioned we not true... you continue to make a fool of yourself MAC. BrAR has slightly more DPS. A tiny amount, so I'll excuse your ignorance. BrAR has 4m of extra range. What is TTE? Do you mean TTK? Look above to DPS... Same dispersion and kick... per shot. Less overall due to lower fire rate. Yes, identical reload times. But the BrAR has to reload less due to its relatively larger mag. 228 more damage per magazine. This is equivalent to the Minmatar Assault bonus, except it works everywhere. Same damage profile... Yeah, this is about the only thing you got completely right. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Spectral Clone Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3131	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:19:00 - [40] - Quote Breach weapons are used to breach objectives, the name suggest it to be a CQC weapon, while the "regular" assault rifle does not. Nerf BrAR range, buff AR range. Also implement breach ScR and CR please. Both with lower range than regular variants, lower ROF (full auto) and higher damage per shot. EVE: Legion, also known as: Schroedinger's Game, EVE: Limbo, or just "Not-a-game-yet".

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 302	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:22:00 - [41] - Quote The scrR is a strong weapon and an insanely strong weapon if you have an auto trigger or turbo button their choice to revert or partially revert it was foolish as it was a good weapon even then. One step forward and two steps back no wonder they are in dept. Why do you think the breach AR over preforms? Is it from personal exp. using the weapon? Is it being over used? Lets all jump into a match right now and list the number of times it shows up on the kill feed if any and for this test you may not use said rifle. Number of times on feed: Win: Loss: The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 1122	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:48:00 - [42] - Quote Spectral Clone wrote: Breach weapons are used to breach objectives, the name suggest it to be a CQC weapon, while the "regular" assault rifle does not. Nerf BrAR range, buff AR range. Also implement breach ScR and CR please. Both with lower range than regular variants, lower ROF (full auto) and higher damage per shot. Breach weapons also always have the same firing mode as the normal variant. Breach ScRs and CRs would be semiautomatic and burst, respectively. They shouldnt be full auto. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 302	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:57:00 - [43] - Quote Lets all jump into a match right now and list the number of times it shows up on the kill feed if any and for this test you may not use said rifle. Results: Players using it Breach AR: 3 Number of times on feed: 18 Win: Yes - clone destruction Loss: No There may be a few I missed I was trying to somewhat contribute to my team, It was a great match too even though I was camping out we had one bar left and cloned them. It is 6 kills a piece average and most were from one player 2 players which doesn't look like a weapon that is over preforming to me, It looks like a weapon that is being used. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 310	Posted - 2014.11.17 09:57:00 - [44] - Quote Lets all jump into a match right now and list the number of times it shows up on the kill feed if any and for this test you may not use said rifle. Results: Players using it Breach AR: 3 Number of times on feed: 18 Win: Yes - clone destruction Loss: No There may be a few I missed I was trying to somewhat contribute to my team, It was a great match too even though I was camping out we had one bar left and cloned them. It is 6 kills a piece average and most were from 2 players which doesn't look like a weapon that is over preforming to me, It looks like a weapon that is being used. Extra info: RR/ARR users: A ton CR/ACR users : A ton Shotgun users : A ton The last 3 on the feed blanketed it there was a few nk, remote explosive, SR, and scram rifle kills. I would bet the activity wouldn't even be this high if people didn't say this very mediocre weapon was "fotm" or OP when it clearly isn't. Furthermore I would think a CPM could find more meaningful things to work on as opposed to crying wolf. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 179	Posted - 2014.11.17 10:49:00 - [45] - Quote Seems like there's a bad case of rail rifle envy going around... The problem with pointing at the rail rifle and saying the breach assault rifle should work like that... is well... The rail rifle doesn't actually work like a breach. It has a pretty long charge time, it has a considerable amount of kick, it has so-so damage for longer range. The rail rifle is seriously in a class of it's own and it has quite a few things that balance it. Other breach weapon tend to do more damage per shot, it's difficult to apply damage with them, and they are more cumbersome to handle or move with in general. Adding more range doesn't make it harder to apply damage- it makes it easier so it goes against the breach convention... One would think that we'd use a breach assault rifle to breach and assault with, but nope. Sadly, with the current assault rifle having pretty much the same range and DPS, it seems redundant for most players since both try to do exactly the same thing, except one can do it a bit better. Lowering the damage on the breach for more range seems like it could not work out as well as one might hope. Having a slow rate of fire with low damage per shot with an inherently close range weapon against highly mobile shield tanked enemies that can regenerate much more quickly seems like it could be a dud if not done right. If it is done right, I'd like to see the rifle balanced to work with a gallente commando so that it turns into a human damage stacked turret- similiar to a caldari commando with a rail rifle and it's ability to supress enemies effectively. I also want to say I'm a little apprehensive about CCP touching it until a gallente assault bonus is settled on... Although I believe they should and will get a range bonus since that is what seems to keep assaults from assaulting. I think that as a breach weapon, it may need the characteristics that make the weapon difficult to handle exaggerated and damage increased- so lower the range, (range is one of the defining characteristics that hold blasters back) and increase dispersion. What do people think about CCP introducing dispersion into ADS on plasma rifles? Maybe then the weapon will be able to justify not having shots disappear in mid air less close to the shooter, not lowering damage so much, make landing shots a bit more difficult like a proper breach weapon, not to mention work at breaching like it should? This way, the breach assault rifle, not to mention assault rifles, could aim for a few more distant enemies, but it's not exactly preferable to other weapons similiar to how the using CQC for a rail rifle is possible, but not ideal. Anyways, I'm just throwing ideas out, please don't hit me with a truck.
Denchlad 7 Dead Man's Game 1117	Posted - 2014.11.17 10:50:00 - [46] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Lets all jump into a match right now and list the number of times it shows up on the kill feed if any and for this test you may not use said rifle. Results: Players using it Breach AR: 3 Number of times on feed: 18 Win: Yes - clone destruction Loss: No There may be a few I missed I was trying to somewhat contribute to my team, It was a great match too even though I was camping out we had one bar left and cloned them. It is 6 kills a piece average and most were from 2 players which doesn't look like a weapon that is over preforming to me, It looks like a weapon that is being used. Extra info: RR/ARR users: A ton CR/ACR users : A ton Shotgun users : A ton The last 3 on the feed blanketed it there was a few nk, remote explosive, SR, and scram rifle kills. I would bet the activity wouldn't even be this high if people didn't say this very mediocre weapon was "fotm" or OP when it clearly isn't. Furthermore I would think a CPM could find more meaningful things to work on as opposed to crying wolf. sighs Despite the fact the Breach AR is a variant weapon, it would always be used less than the RR, CR, ScR and AR regardless as its not prefitted to the Starter fits that the new players use, and therefore may not even know the gun exists, let alone that its FoTM. Earlier while in a squad I called out "Breach AR" everytime I saw it in the killfeed in a Dom. Nearly 80 times I said that. More than the RR, CR, ScR, AR, even HMG. Why? Because the "good", older, more experienced players were using it. The players who know its overperforming and therefore use it to gain an advantage over those who dont know how good it is. There are more new players than vets here too (if the 300k individual logins is true), so the usage of standard variant weapons makes sense. The TAR is very good at the moment, but why do you rarely see it used? Its balanced, and its a variant, not meant to be good as its sibling, the ScR, which is more commonly used. The BrAR needs changing, similar to Daddrobits numbers posted earlier in the thread, putting it inbetween the AR and the RR, like the TAR is between the AR and the ScR, and the BuAR between the AR and CR. The Connoisseur of Weapons. 19/19 L5 P2. Snarcasm > Sarcasm Excessively British.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13259	Posted - 2014.11.17 10:53:00 - [47] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Oh yeah, the BAR seriously is as bad as a weapon that -literally- melted every light and medium suit in a single trigger pull when on target, it's just that good. How dare a CQC weapon shine in CQC for more than 2 weeks after well over a year of disuse, nerf it immediately. /sarcasm It's powerful yeah, but old BHMG levels of OP? I don't think so. I don't think anyone is asserting that...if they are they are fuggin dumb. Is it strong? Yes. Does it need a nerf? I think so. What should that nerf be? Clip size...reload speed lengthened if a clip reduction doesn't do the trick. The DPS is actually fine...it's how long that DPS is sustainable...and how easy it is to do that DPS at ranges I don't know that the breach was intended for Like i've said elsewhere...what is this weapon's goal/purpose? What is it's intended range? Should it be the best CQC variant as opposed to the higher dispersion/kick 'normal' AR? Should it be able to apply it's damage better than the regular ar at >15m if it IS a CQC weapon? This sort of consensus/answer helps a lot in these kinds of conversations. Breach should NOT be nerfed into the ground...people like you have been waiting WAAAAAY too damn long for it to be brought back. Buff the rest of the plasma rifles. Rattati's stats say it, the Breach is the only Plasma Rifle that is actually competitive. Nerfing it will just remove any Plasma Rifle from competitive play, you won't see an increase in Assault Plasma Rifles. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 1124	Posted - 2014.11.17 10:54:00 - [48] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: Lets all jump into a match right now and list the number of times it shows up on the kill feed if any and for this test you may not use said rifle. Results: Players using it Breach AR: 3 Number of times on feed: 18 Win: Yes - clone destruction Loss: No There may be a few I missed I was trying to somewhat contribute to my team, It was a great match too even though I was camping out we had one bar left and cloned them. It is 6 kills a piece average and most were from 2 players which doesn't look like a weapon that is over preforming to me, It looks like a weapon that is being used. Extra info: RR/ARR users: A ton CR/ACR users : A ton Shotgun users : A ton The last 3 on the feed blanketed it there was a few nk, remote explosive, SR, and scram rifle kills. I would bet the activity wouldn't even be this high if people didn't say this very mediocre weapon was "fotm" or OP when it clearly isn't. Furthermore I would think a CPM could find more meaningful things to work on as opposed to crying wolf. Nice anecdotal evidence, bro. Looking at the stats, it is quite clear that the BrAR is over performing a bit. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 303	Posted - 2014.11.17 10:58:00 - [49] - Quote If it is because I play with noobs as you suggest why isn't it in the PC top killers Rattati posted and I posted here? The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 310	Posted - 2014.11.17 10:58:00 - [50] - Quote If it is because I play with noobs as you suggest why isn't it in the PC top killers Rattati posted and I posted here? The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 13259	Posted - 2014.11.17 10:59:00 - [51] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: Lets all jump into a match right now and list the number of times it shows up on the kill feed if any and for this test you may not use said rifle. Results: Players using it Breach AR: 3 Number of times on feed: 18 Win: Yes - clone destruction Loss: No There may be a few I missed I was trying to somewhat contribute to my team, It was a great match too even though I was camping out we had one bar left and cloned them. It is 6 kills a piece average and most were from 2 players which doesn't look like a weapon that is over preforming to me, It looks like a weapon that is being used. Extra info: RR/ARR users: A ton CR/ACR users : A ton Shotgun users : A ton The last 3 on the feed blanketed it there was a few nk, remote explosive, SR, and scram rifle kills. I would bet the activity wouldn't even be this high if people didn't say this very mediocre weapon was "fotm" or OP when it clearly isn't. Furthermore I would think a CPM could find more meaningful things to work on as opposed to crying wolf. Nice anecdotal evidence, bro. Looking at the stats, it is quite clear that the BrAR is over performing a bit. Over-performing as opposed to the other Plasma Rifles? None of then having any significant competitive play use? I remember Rattati's graphs, the Plasma Rifle was below average. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC n+ÅS¦¦Gùò GÇ+GÇ+ GùòS¦¦n++
WeapondigitX V7 The Exemplars Top Men. 173	Posted - 2014.11.17 11:00:00 - [52] - Quote the breach AR mimics the RR but fulfills a different role, it seemed to mimic a CQC RR where the br AR was THE best CQC rifle but worse at range, however the Br AR is better than AR at range because of low ADS recoil, it can sustain its full DPS for entire clip in ADS with all headshots without a stop, the AR cant do this, AR has more ADS recoil. AR is better at killing fast straffing targets like Cal Scouts because of high ROF The Br AR has more damage per clip but same DPS thus it has a longer window of dealing damage compared to the AR. These two features make Br AR seem better than AR. SCR=TAR (TAR has almost exactly same hipfire accuracy, its very user friendly in extreme CQC, 10m ranges, the hipfire notably shows its disadvantages at ranges of 17m or greater, less accuracy is better when enemy is within 17m. that's why the SCR seems good, the enemy charges at SCR guys and get themselves melted at 10m ranges thinking less range is better at beating SCR guys, you should be thinking within a certain range is better, ie larger than 17m and within 25m. that way the guy needs to use ADS making him a bit slower, or he moves slower while hipfiring which increases his SCR hipfire accuracy, thus he has minimal straffing ability, unless he is a scout, they still move fast while ADS I think, or is that an illusion? use the breach ARs hipfire at 17m+ you will see the difference compared to the SCR, with skill the br AR wins, but the SCR is more user friendly with hipfire at those ranges without skill, newb friendly, the overheat stops newbs from using it to spray and pray, the TAR has less range and less PG and CPU cost compared to the same tier SCR, but nearly same DPS) Brst CR = Brst AR Br AR = (1.05) x RR (the Br AR is slighty better, I mean more valuable, more versatile) AR < Br AR (Br AR is better, slightly) Brst HMG = HMG Brst HMG > AR (the AR is way better at range, but map design makes objectives hard to defend with rifles, you need HMGs, that's why the rifles seem UP compared to HMGs sometimes, maps need to be more complex, objectives need to have high platforms above them that can fire below but at the same time have spare cover on those high platforms so heavies and anything cant camp there for long with heaps of cover) AR < TAR (the regular AR needs a large buff for reload speed) Br AR > TAR (Br AR has so much higher damage per clip that the TARs qualities cant seem to make the TAR seem as good as Br AR in terms of versatility with weapon combos, even swarms and Br AR is really good compared to other weapon combinations with swarms on commandos) Brst CR => AR RR > ARR (ARR needs to be better slightly at CQC but doesnt need much improvement otherwise it has more range than AR but same CQC ability ) ACR? need more testing, ACR seems bad but, the aim sensitivity is different to AR, make ACR sensitivity the same as AR, it might make aiming easier with ACR. ACR probably = AR, maybe ACR < AR????????????????????? LR => AR but the range and map design make its use very rare because of objective locations, usually pick off stray enemies with it. Brst AR > AR (love the extra scope zoom and range on Brst AR) TAR = Brst AR = SCR = Brst CR = LR = ASCR
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3550	Posted - 2014.11.17 11:30:00 - [53] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Doesn't the breach have the same DPS as a standard Assault Rifle? Not to mention . . . Identical Ranges Similar TTE Similar Dispersion and Kick Identical Reload Times Identical Damage Profile Prehaps before we try nerfing it into the ground we should be trying to figure out why it's outperforming it's twin brother in the same situation. Many of those things you mentioned we not true... you continue to make a fool of yourself MAC. BrAR has slightly more DPS. A tiny amount, so I'll excuse your ignorance. BrAR has 4m of extra range. What is TTE? Do you mean TTK? Look above to DPS... Same dispersion and kick... per shot. Less overall due to lower fire rate. Yes, identical reload times. But the BrAR has to reload less due to its relatively larger mag. 228 more damage per magazine. This is equivalent to the Minmatar Assault bonus, except it works everywhere. Same damage profile... Yeah, this is about the only thing you got completely right. And we're not trying to Nerf it into the ground like you tried to get CCP to do to my Scrambler. Remember that itme when you wanted to reduce the DPS of the Scrambler to like 375? I do. Hypocritical **. I only advocate that we reduce the magazine size and carried ammo. To either 30 or 32 rounds, with 5+1 magazines. So either 180 or 192 rounds total. Then run metrics. If it is still overperforming, increase the reload time by a hair. Ouch someone is still bitter about that huh? How is it hypocritical? I never intended to nerf the Scrambler Rifle into the ground and was quite happy to conceded that my proposed ROF was probably too low. Personally I'm alot happier with the Scrambler Rifles performance. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174569&find=unread This is where I took my imformation from, if things have been changed further since then, feel free to show me, I've not been on the forums for a while. TTE(Time To Empty) is how long to emoty your magazine under continuous fire. If memory serves the Breach has a 36 round mag. But the slower ROF results in both guns reloading at around the same same time. The point is these two weapons are incredibly similar yet, one is being deemed over powered while the other is still underused. It's a point that deserves some thought. As for your proposed nerf, seems fine to me. No need to get quite so touchy. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4954	Posted - 2014.11.17 11:31:00 - [54] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Please balance it. The breach is nowhere near as powerful as the Burst HMG was. It has drawbacks at range and STILL loses to other weapons up close. The Burst was undeniably the best CQC weapon, period. It's my fault FA exists. Direct your rage to me.
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2865	Posted - 2014.11.17 12:21:00 - [55] - Quote MrShooter01 wrote: There is no reason for me to use a normal AR or SMG over their breach counterparts, they have no significant drawback. The breach SMG in particular is pretty much a straight upgrade over the normal SMG. I get the same DPS, same range, with significantly more damage per magazine and effectively increased total ammo reserves as well, thanks to the much higher damage per shot. And to top it all off, they're easier to control and land hits with Eh, breach SMG is less DPS than the normal, and I feel is balanced. The AR on the other hand... "Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
Zindorak Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 1298	Posted - 2014.11.17 12:24:00 - [56] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: I still think CR outdoes it in close quarters. Even ScR performs just as well if not better. I've been using the AR for a year now and I'd much rather have a different rifle. +1. TAR isn't as good as ScR with 18 rounds a clip. CR> BAR. BrAR is the only good option for Gallentee loyalists Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 305	Posted - 2014.11.17 12:47:00 - [57] - Quote There are two different discussions or at least supposed discussions. One balancing the AR against it self (pointless) and one of balance in general. Those of the former under a guise of balancing the weapon against itself are asking for a nerf to a branch in a rifle class with the lowest performance over all. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
The Master Race Immortal Guides 310	Posted - 2014.11.17 12:47:00 - [58] - Quote There are two different discussions or at least supposed discussions. One balancing the AR against it self (pointless) and one of balance in general. Those of the former under a guise of balancing the weapon against itself are asking for a nerf to a branch in a rifle class with the lowest performance over all. Is the AR the hard counter to the FAs min/max fit? Are you guys getting to much competition in pubs or FW? The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 3349	Posted - 2014.11.17 12:52:00 - [59] - Quote What is with this witch hunt against the breach have you guys ever even used gallente weapons? They're ******* horrible, then we have the only one of our weapons that works and you Wang to nerf when it isn't even close in usefulness to other weapons. First of all it HAS THE EXACT SAME STATS AS THE BASIC AR the difference is you can't break strafng like a little .... to survive that's it's that's the only difference! After that it's all drawbacks it has a negligible dps difference between longer ranges rifles (less than 10% and at minimum 3%) and the shortest range of all, by a minimum of 20% and a maximum of roughly 60%! Seriously get your head out of your ass, if you can't handle the weapon then get the hell out of it's range. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 305	Posted - 2014.11.17 13:03:00 - [60] - Quote What it is with the increased spool up time on the RR the AR is viable against it in close range it is the reason for zatera's and FAs push to revert the rail rifle along with this post. The CPM along with her guild (FA) obviously upset that something has an advantage against their fit. I hope the devs realize how perfect it is because it is obviously working as intended gk. vs. ck. long range vs cqc. I have not jumped into a match yet today hopefully they didn't give into these tryhards and revert the RR. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc

The Master Race Immortal Guides 310	Posted - 2014.11.17 13:03:00 - [61] - Quote What it is with the increased spool up time on the RR the AR is viable against it in close range it is the reason for zatera's and FAs push to revert the rail rifle along with this post. The CPM along with her guild (FA) obviously upset that something has an advantage against their fit. I hope the devs realize how perfect it is because it is obviously working as intended gk. vs. ck. long range vs cqc. I have not jumped into a match yet today hopefully they didn't give into these tryhards and revert the RR. The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 663	Posted - 2014.11.17 13:48:00 - [62] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: It's the best Plasma rifle for sure, but I think it's just cause the rest aren't that great(besides the TAR, that thing is decent at medium range but awful for close range) The assault plasma rifle is ok, but is outdone by so many rifles and weapons that aren't even classified as CQC. TAR is excellent close up with skilled up Gal Assault.
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2187	Posted - 2014.11.17 13:58:00 - [63] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: What it is with the increased spool up time on the RR the AR is viable against it in close range it is the reason for zatera's and FAs push to revert the rail rifle along with this post. The CPM along with her guild (FA) obviously upset that something has an advantage against their fit. I hope the devs realize how perfect it is because it is obviously working as intended gk. vs. ck. long range vs cqc. I have not jumped into a match yet today hopefully they didn't give into these tryhards and revert the RR. That's just silly. Want to know who turned me on to the BAR? Gav, an FA player.
Fizzer XCIV Heaven's Lost Property 1127	Posted - 2014.11.17 14:02:00 - [64] - Quote Leadfoot10 wrote: Blueprint For Murder wrote: What it is with the increased spool up time on the RR the AR is viable against it in close range it is the reason for zatera's and FAs push to revert the rail rifle along with this post. The CPM along with her guild (FA) obviously upset that something has an advantage against their fit. I hope the devs realize how perfect it is because it is obviously working as intended gk. vs. ck. long range vs cqc. I have not jumped into a match yet today hopefully they didn't give into these tryhards and revert the RR. That's just silly. Want to know who turned me on to the BAR? Gav, an FA player. You know what turned me on to it? Its huge, ****** ****. I just can't resist it... Seriously though? I've been maining this weapon since it got buffed, not because I actually like the weapon, but because I saw that it was going to be OP seconds after they announced its stats. Please, make my Opus pretty...
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 13768	Posted - 2014.11.17 14:24:00 - [65] - Quote Zatara Rought wrote: Daddrobit wrote: Zatara Rought wrote: Is it supposed to be like the RR? I thought that was what the TAC was for? TAC is the scrambler m8. And burst is the CR. They were all the original 'placeholders' now considered variants. Wut...But the SCR is a high DPS, high clip...overheat based weapon that performs perfectly in CQC and at range.. The Tac needs considerable changes if it's going to be considered the alternative SCR. I agree on the CR/Burst comparison. Anyone else want to validate/contest the idea that the breach is the RR placeholder? But at the same time, both the TAR and SCR are both: -Semi Automatic (unlike BARs and RRs) -Single Shot -Mid-Long Range (90m Effective Range vs 96m Effective Range) -Short Clip Size (Relatively, at least. Without the Amarr Assault the most shots I can fire is 17-19). -Same RPM (600) If that doesn't convince you, put both on a Commando and play around with them for a bit. You'll find that they're pretty much the same except one's even better at destroying Shields, has a bit more range, and can be used as a Shotgun. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 988	Posted - 2014.11.17 16:57:00 - [66] - Quote It would seem that there's a bit of a inequity in peoples definition of a breach weapon, so let's start off with the simple definition of what 'breach' is and is not. breach: noun 1. an act of breaking or failing to observe a law, agreement, or code of conduct. 2. a gap in a wall, barrier, or defense, especially one made by an attacking army. synonyms:break, rupture, split, crack, fracture verb 1. make a gap in and break through (a wall, barrier, or defense). "the river breached its bank" synonyms:break (through), burst (through), rupture; To breach something is not necessarily to attack up close or be QCQ, to breach something simply means to crack it open. Case in point: when a police/military force 'breaches' a building, it simply means that they are busting open a door or wall. From there, that is the point in which the force 'assaults' the building. So a 'breaching' weapon in Dust is simply a weapon that has the, (usually alpha) power to crack open a hardened target regardless of range. Unfortunately from there, CCPs definition of how a breach weapon performs that function varies, but we can still take a look at a few generalities. Slower ROF: Breach AR Breach smg Breach FG Breach ScP Breach SG Breach MD Breach Flaylock Every breach weapon follows this convention Equal Reload Breach AR Breach smg Breach FG Breach ScP Breach MD The SG is the only breach weapon which reloads slower, and the breach flaylock actually reloads faster. Higher Per shot value: Breach AR Breach smg Breach FG Breach ScP Breach SG Breach MD Breach Flaylock Every breach weapon follows this convention Lower DPS: Breach smg Breach SG Breach Flaylock Only less than half of the breach weaponry follows this convention. AR, MD, FG, and ScP all have higher than standard DPS rates Lower Clip/Mag Size: Breach AR Breach smg Breach ScP Breach SG Over half follows this convention. The FG, MD, and Flaylock all have equal clip sizes compared to the standard. Longer Range: Breach AR Breach SG This is a very muddy area as FGs, MDs, and flaylocks are launched rather than shot. Then there's the ScP and smg which both have shorter ranges. So everything here is kinda split. However it is worth mentioning that once upon a time that the smg did have longer ranges but was nerfed some time ago. I am unsure about the ScP as I did not use it. So at least the automatic variants of breach weaponry were all at one point long range weapons. Higher Damage per clip/mag Breach AR Breach smg Breach FG Breach ScP Breach MD Breach Flaylock Everything bar the SG has a higher damage potential per clip/mag First off, the breach shotgun really needs some help, but that's not the point... It would seem that breach weapons are guaranteed to be defined by having a lower clip/mag size and slower ROF, offset by a higher clip/mag potential and a higher per shot value. I would also argue that they have also should have a longer range as that is how the AR and SG function, and it's how the smg, (and possibly ScP?) used to function. This is inconsequential when considering the launched variants as their operation regarding range varies so drastically from the rest. When i comes to DPS, it would seem that they also have a higher average DPS, however I feel this is a balance gaffe in regards to the AR, (and maybe ScP?) on CCPs part, we're starting to see too many pros in comparison to cons. The FG and MD are harder to use by virtue of their operation, so the deserve that damage potential there. But having an automatic weapon that deals the most DPS, hitting the hardest for every bullet, all while also having the most potential damage before reload simply is not balanced. Again, in my honest opinion, I would stress a DPS drop of 25-30 DPS less than the AR through per shot damage drop and give it 6 more meters optimal/effective. For those afraid of that range, keep in mind that even the CR, and especially the RR still has more range with what I'm proposing. Let the weapon 'breach' with lots of damage over a sustained period of time at a distance and leave the 'assaulting' DPS to the assault weapons. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 19155	Posted - 2014.11.17 21:56:00 - [67] - Quote Blueprint For Murder wrote: What it is with the increased spool up time on the RR the AR is viable against it in close range it is the reason for zatera's and FAs push to revert the rail rifle along with this post. The CPM along with her guild (FA) obviously upset that something has an advantage against their fit. I hope the devs realize how perfect it is because it is obviously working as intended gk. vs. ck. long range vs cqc. I have not jumped into a match yet today hopefully they didn't give into these tryhards and revert the RR. This is the best thing I've read all day. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Currently challenging CCP Rattati for the queef
Leadfoot10 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2191	Posted - 2014.11.17 22:43:00 - [68] - Quote Is it really surprising that after the RR was hit with the nerfbat the closest relative in the AR family has become popular? That said, I'm not sure the gun is really that OP. Perhaps a bit of a damage or clip size nerf, but nothing really drastic.
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 179	Posted - 2014.11.18 03:09:00 - [69] - Quote Making the assault rifle more like the rail rifle wouldn't turn it into a proper breach weapon in my opinion. Hardly any weapons get more range just because they're a breach weapon. The rail rifle is not a breach weapon because it gets more range for doing less damage in my eyes. The only way I could really justify seeing the rail rifle as legitimately fitting within the breach weapon category, beyond the superficial fact that it has a similar rate of fire, is that it burdens the user with cumbersome handling characteristics in exchange for POWER. Power is not the same as damage or damage per shot. What makes a rail rifle powerful? It's RANGE. So breach weapons basically exaggerate the characteristics that make the base weapon more powerful and desirable than others? Maybe this is why other breach weapons have trouble shining a bit? Because certain weapons don't get as much power in exchange for their respective weapon's drawbacks? For example, the breach mass driver or breach flaylocks, which are hardly ever used last time I checked. Maybe it needs more splash because that's one characteristic of the weapon that makes it desirable over other weapons? They do more damage, yes, but let's face it, the reason a mass driver can be more powerful than other weapons isn't because it can do higher DPS against one enemy... It's because it can do splash against multiple enemies and hit them from around corners. If we were to increase the splash on the breach mass driver, slow down the travel time of the projectile, lower rate of fire, lower damage (after all, damage application is supposed to be fairly difficult with these things as people say) then it'd be a proper breach. The only way for this weapon to really apply decent damage would be if many enemies were in a single spot and it'd fit perfectly into the minmatar commando hands, which are just itching for a signature suppressive weapon- a portable mortar. Meanwhile we switch the splash on the assault mass driver so they're a bit smaller with faster traveling rounds, with higher DPS so people can... assault with it. I know people will object to what I'm suggesting here, someone will stand up and say: "But, Indy! Breach weapons have high damage in exchange for trouble applying damage, the breach mass driver should be a skill shot weapon or very cumbersome with small splash and high damage! Therefore it can not be a breach weapon if it does not do this!" If that's your opinion and you disagree, then you should say the same for the assault rifle getting more range and less damage. It will not become a proper breach weapon by simply imitating the rail rifle. If this is not your opinion and you agree with me, then you should somewhat ponder over my thoughts and throw mud at me for what I am about to suggest. Anyways, what is it that makes an assault rifle powerful and preferable to other weapons? It's DPS at CQC and medium-short range. What handling characteristics make it difficult to apply damage so they can be exaggerated to make it work like a proper breach weapon? Dispersion and lack of range. Therefore, shorten range. Increase dispersion- maybe so that it's only preferable to use with ADS. These are both signature characteristics that hold the rifle back. Maybe increase rate of fire since that's more of a blaster thing compared to other weapons. Increase DPS a shitload. Voila- a proper breach assault rifle- perfect for a gallente commando suppressing enemies in an indoor area with a bit more range than an HMG, not to mention perfect for a gallente assault with the current bonus. This doesn't mean I'm against the other ideas being proposed here, just a few more thoughts on the whole "breach category" of weapons and how they possibly may need to work on a conceptual level, CCP could do with adding a carbine variant or something.
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 989	Posted - 2014.11.18 09:30:00 - [70] - Quote The problem Indy, and what I'm afraid of in this instance is when they take breach weaponry that works, (often because it works too well) with the intent on making it a skill weapon with lots of potential, is that they tend to make it absurdly hard to use with very little to next to no return. The last Breach weapon that I can recall as being really OP was the breach SG and that thing still has yet to return to being useful in any sense of the word. Hell, the CreoDron hasn't been useful since the early days of closed beta. It has been outperformed by nearly every other weapon in the game for *over a year!* The breach FG is the only breach weapon I can really think of that has remained mostly potentially useful throughout Dusts history while still being a very hard to use weapon. Problem is that CCP has such a nasty tendency of making 'breach' synonymous with 'vanity' so I would rather balance toward variety over implementing more 'skill weapon' gimmicks. O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny

Feldt-Grace Anaheim Electronics Manufacture Company 29	Posted - 2014.11.18 11:45:00 - [71] - Quote I miss the old BHMG. u.u "blaa is to strong" bullshit -___- The Breach-Assaultrifle is little bit to Strong. From 36 Ammoclip to 30 or 26 is better. TRANS-AM! Gundam, DUST and more Gameplays
saxonmish T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K 735	Posted - 2014.11.18 11:48:00 - [72] - Quote Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote: Please balance it. Agreed The sooner as the BAR is nerfed the better, in my opinion its the new RR SAXON ON A MISH - My Youtube Channel :)
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 180	Posted - 2014.11.18 11:51:00 - [73] - Quote Daddrobit wrote: The problem Indy, and what I'm afraid of in this instance is when they take breach weaponry that works, (often because it works too well) with the intent on making it a skill weapon with lots of potential, is that they tend to make it absurdly hard to use with very little to next to no return. You seem to be preoccupied on breach weapons that don't work and think if the assault rifle is done in a similiar way, it will become useless- just look at the rail rifle, it's been nerfed over and over and it's still useful, though difficult to use. The power of it's range is worth the cumbersome handling characteristics- the long charge time, the kick, etc. Even now, I still use it despite others claiming it's been nerfed to hell. If the weapon is compensated with power appropriately, people will use it. Daddrobit wrote: The last Breach weapon that I can recall as being really OP was the breach SG and that thing still has yet to return to being useful in any sense of the word. Hell, the CreoDron hasn't been useful since the early days of closed beta. It has been outperformed by nearly every other weapon in the game for *over a year!* Shotguns in general may just need to be balanced, jury is still out on it. Even Aeon Amadi points out that they have remained untouched for the longest time, they just need to be better defined in my opinion. Only then can a proper breach shotgun rise from the ashes of what once was... Daddrobit wrote: The breach FG is the only breach weapon I can really think of that has remained mostly potentially useful throughout Dusts history while still being a very hard to use weapon. Some people would disagree on the breach forge gun being "good", and some feel forge guns need a balance pass... So once again, the jury may still be out on it. Anyways, you point at a perfect example of the theory I'm drawing here, the breach has all of it's signature drawbacks amplified in exchange for power. It seems to be a useable and legitimate breach variant because it adheres to the theory of what constitutes a breach weapon perfectly. It has the power to be worth it. Daddrobit wrote: Problem is that CCP has such a nasty tendency of making 'breach' synonymous with 'vanity' so I would rather balance toward variety over implementing more 'skill weapon' gimmicks. I think my suggestion actually would create variety within the AR's... Not to mention variety within the rest of the weapons. We already have many long range anti-shield weapons- the laser, the scrambler, the tactical rifle which I whip out against cal suits with rail rifles, doesn't the burst get more range too? Why can't I have a super powerful assault rifle with such odd handling characteristics? Isn't that more unique compared to an anti-shield rail rifle knock off? It sounds like it'd be a fun gun to use on occasion and try with different fits and such and it wouldn't be a gimmick if it gets the power to be worth it... Maybe this is why explosive breach weapons and the breach shotgun seem underwhelming, they don't offer increased "power" for their drawbacks? That is, the strengths of the weapon aren't amplified. Sure, they offer increased damage, but it doesn't make the weapon more desirable over the normal variant for most people. Anyways, don't hide the maple syrup tomorrow morning, just making a few suggestions.
Daddrobit You Can Call Me Daddy 989	Posted - 2014.11.18 13:57:00 - [74] - Quote As an avid Gallente loyalist, and a devout patriot of the Breach Assault Rifle, I would absolutely love to see my baby brought up to be the single meanest weapon in CQC. However, I also have to recognize that in this game, CQC capability is overwhelmingly often the king and overcoming short range limitations can in most situations be childs play. When it comes down to it, at 90% of the objectives in the game there is cover that can be taken and shored up behind every few meters when advancing on a point. That means that even if the breach AR is handicapped by having only HMG range or less, it would often times be inconsequential when you can leapfrog your way cover to cover to eventually reach your goal and apply full damage. And in the cases of there being no cover, like approaching medium socket dominations from the mcc, other measures can be taken like calling in an lav or dropship; for scouts it's even easier as they can just waltz up from the side being invisible. Then there's the concerning matter of odd power creep within the AR branch. Back in 1.8, there was a TTK adjustment nerfing pretty much every rifle in the game, and since then there has been enough buffs between them that every plasma rifle -except- the base variant is now more powerful than it was pre 1.8. PRE 1.8 ADV Burst AR 445 Current ADV Burst AR 540 PRE 1.8 Proto Burst AR 537 Current Proto Burst AR 606 PRE 1.8 ADV TAR 499 Current ADV TAR 695 PRE 1.8 Proto TAR 523 Current Proto TAR 728 PRE 1.8 BAR 340 Current BAR 415 PRE 1.8 ADV BAR 357 Current ADV BAR 435 PRE 1.8 Proto BAR 374 Current Proto BAR 456 And then there's the base AR PRE 1.8 AR 425 Current AR 412 PRE 1.8 ADV AR 446 Current ADV AR 432 PRE 1.8 Proto AR 467 Current Proto AR 453 What's concerning a large portion of the playerbase is the BARs already apt ability to kill very quickly and efficiently, by adding even more power to it, even at the expense of range, not only are we exacerbating the problem, we're relegating the base AR further and further away from being a useful tool. It'll be the odd weapon out, not really having the DPS to compete in CQC, while still sporting the worst ranges of light weaponry unable to effectively attack distant targets. And this is the weapon that's supposed to be the mainstay of the Federation? I feel -something- needs to be done here... O.G. Pink Fluffy Bunny


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