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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
541
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Posted - 2014.11.17 01:16:00 -
[1] - Quote
I really don't get it?? I run hmg from time to time it does just like I would expect a massive close quarters machine gun would. If you are assault stay outside?? If you are a scout shotgun the guy he cant see you when you're dampened. I don't understand people at all. I guess we really won't ever get to a set game. CCP are you really always going to nerf/buff?
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1751
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Posted - 2014.11.17 01:19:00 -
[2] - Quote
Like a lot of QQ on the forum it boils down to "it's not my preferred weapon / playstyle and I'm to lazy too properly counter it".
I'm surprised Maynard hasn't been assassinated yet.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
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Jacques Cayton II
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
1086
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Posted - 2014.11.17 01:26:00 -
[3] - Quote
I love the hmg but its beimg spammed so it will receive a nerf and thats why if it should receive ome just the heat build up should increase nothing else
We fight for the future of the State not our
personal goals
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
542
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Posted - 2014.11.17 01:35:00 -
[4] - Quote
Jacques Cayton II wrote:I love the hmg but its beimg spammed so it will receive a nerf and thats why if it should receive ome just the heat build up should increase nothing else
I have to blame map design for this. If you have a bunch of maps conducive to close quarters then duh your going to have hmg's and shotguns everywhere.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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castba
Holdfast Syndicate
Amarr Empire
643
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Posted - 2014.11.17 01:37:00 -
[5] - Quote
Jacques Cayton II wrote:I love the hmg but its beimg spammed so it will receive a nerf and thats why if it should receive ome just the heat build up should increase nothing else
Good Lord, if there is a heat increase on the burst it will be useless. Could do with a very slight damage increase (0.5 Hp) IMO.
Standard Hmg heat increase? Sure.
Assault? Leave as is.
"When everything is OP, nothing is" - CCP Ratatti
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Powerh8er
The Rainbow Effect
535
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Posted - 2014.11.17 01:40:00 -
[6] - Quote
Because they are a bunch of nerds. NERDS!
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Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1754
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Posted - 2014.11.17 01:41:00 -
[7] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Jacques Cayton II wrote:I love the hmg but its beimg spammed so it will receive a nerf and thats why if it should receive ome just the heat build up should increase nothing else I have to blame map design for this. If you have a bunch of maps conducive to close quarters then duh your going to have hmg's and shotguns everywhere.
Exactly, I don't pull out my HMG Sentinel on Manus Peak for example because most of the fighting isn't CQC.
I'm surprised Maynard hasn't been assassinated yet.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
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Vicious Minotaur
1340
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Posted - 2014.11.17 01:59:00 -
[8] - Quote
Well, what do you think the 'H' in HMG stands for?
Hate. Duh.
As in "Hate My Gun"
I am a minotaur.
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Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1754
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:01:00 -
[9] - Quote
Jacques Cayton II wrote:I love the hmg but its beimg spammed so it will receive a nerf and thats why if it should receive ome just the heat build up should increase nothing else
I can't support another heat build up increase but I would support a spoil up time like someone in another thread suggested (it's logical as well). Dust is the only game I can recall with a Gatling-style gun that doesn't have a spoil up tum.
Though if they do go with more heat build up then they need to decrease cool down time from overheating (not drastically of course, I'd say go with 3/4th what it is now and see how that works) because as it stands now with how long it takes to cool down I'd rather it just straight up killed you when you overheated, even if you had full health. It feels like a Flaylock could kill you twice over with just splash damage in the time it takes the HMG to cool off.
I'm surprised Maynard hasn't been assassinated yet.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4838
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:02:00 -
[10] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think?
My advice to you, playa...
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4556
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:09:00 -
[11] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think?
Jesus I'm starting to think you read my mind. 
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
1116
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 02:09:00 -
[12] - Quote
First of all, yes. We won't ever get to a set game balance. Perfect balance is impossible, and CCP has to shake up the meta from time to time regardless of how well balanced we ever become. And this is perfectly fine in the living, breathing world of New Eden.
A lot of long-term games work this way.
And I believe the HMG is hated because, by what I've seen and heard, it is relentlessly spammed in PC and FW matches. And this is spilling into pubs a little bit.
That and Sentinels are #2 on the FotM list after Scouts. After the last few scout nerfs, they may have switched places...
Please, make my Opus pretty...
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4556
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:10:00 -
[13] - Quote
castba wrote:Jacques Cayton II wrote:I love the hmg but its beimg spammed so it will receive a nerf and thats why if it should receive ome just the heat build up should increase nothing else Good Lord, if there is a heat increase on the burst it will be useless. Could do with a very slight damage increase (0.5 Hp) IMO. Standard Hmg heat increase? Sure. Assault? Leave as is.
I think he's only talking about the regular variant.
Honestly the assault needs a tighter dispersion so that it can do it's intended job at the ranges it should.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4840
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:11:00 -
[14] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Jesus I'm starting to think you read my mind. I can, but I stopped recently... ***** kittened up.
My advice to you, playa...
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
543
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:12:00 -
[15] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think?
Grenades into a breaching motion. Multiple assaults could be used to take those heavies down. But not a lot of people are good at that stuff. or have a squad to support that kind of move. So no I'm saying play to your strength. And outside mid to long range is your role as assault. close to mid is heavy and scout. you know?
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4840
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:14:00 -
[16] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Grenades into a breaching motion. If sentinels didn't get an innate resistance to splash damage this might be more viable.
Also, shield sentinels giggle as grenades tickle them. They giggle like drunken sumo wrestlers.
My advice to you, playa...
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
543
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:16:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Grenades into a breaching motion. If sentinels didn't get an innate resistance to splash damage this might be more viable.
Slight nade buff should be ******* high on CCP to do list. They are nowhere near what they should be and I think everyone would agree.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Blueprint For Murder
Immortal Guides
300
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
They just reduced the effect to counter you guys and use REs in general you guys are getting nerfed. I vote turn speed so the class requires support and is not an effective solo unit.
The Impossible Dream-Wizard Talk @MMoMerc
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4840
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Slight nade buff should be ******* high on CCP to do list. They are nowhere near what they should be and I think everyone would agree. A grenade buff would indirectly buff any dropsuit that could carry a grenade; assault, scout (because they totally need that...), logi. we are trying to balance sentinels, not buff everyone.
Instead, half or remove the splash damage resistance from sentinels.
My advice to you, playa...
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
545
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 02:23:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Slight nade buff should be ******* high on CCP to do list. They are nowhere near what they should be and I think everyone would agree. A grenade buff would indirectly buff any dropsuit that could carry a grenade; assault, scout (because they totally need that...), logi. we are trying to balance sentinels, not buff everyone. Instead, half or remove the splash damage resistance from sentinels.
I think they are balanced. A sentinel should be the highest killer on the field in cqc. I kill them all the time when they run point to point so I just avoid areas where they work best. There's no reason to nerf them? I watch them die like idiots for almost a year. I don't mind them being good at something. I think its unfair to nerf anything because it works. But if you call for a nerf that's what you get.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Fizzer XCIV
Heaven's Lost Property
1117
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:23:00 -
[21] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think? Grenades into a breaching motion. Multiple assaults could be used to take those heavies down. But not a lot of people are good at that stuff. or have a squad to support that kind of move. So no I'm saying play to your strength. And outside mid to long range is your role as assault. close to mid is heavy and scout. you know?
So what are the AR and CR wielding Assaults supposed to do then? Not play?
And ranges aren't dictated by class at all... what makes you get that idea? Ranges are dictated by weapon choice.
Please, make my Opus pretty...
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Henrietta Unknown
Kirjuun Heiian
483
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:26:00 -
[22] - Quote
Trying to win a Domination or even Skirmish in pubs and FW is pointless if no matter how much you provide for the team, they can't keep the hack because they can't counter the Sentinel/Logi Spam. And even if I were to RE a bunch, they'd kill me, and the dead would return from the bajillion other uplinks around. I hear the situation is worse in PC.
Broken mechanics.
Give the Magsex some love.
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
545
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:27:00 -
[23] - Quote
Fizzer XCIV wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think? Grenades into a breaching motion. Multiple assaults could be used to take those heavies down. But not a lot of people are good at that stuff. or have a squad to support that kind of move. So no I'm saying play to your strength. And outside mid to long range is your role as assault. close to mid is heavy and scout. you know? So what are the AR and CR wielding Assaults supposed to do then? Not play? And ranges aren't dictated by class at all... what makes you get that idea? Ranges are dictated by weapon choice.
If you choose combat rifle your awesome vs 2 types of heavies right? and vice versa for rail rifle or ar?
At a distance of about 30-60 meters they aren't even competitive HMG.
So honestly blame map design not weapons or suits. They are pretty well balanced.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
546
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:29:00 -
[24] - Quote
Henrietta Unknown wrote:Trying to win a Domination or even Skirmish in pubs and FW is pointless if no matter how much you provide for the team, they can't keep the hack because they can't counter the Sentinel/Logi Spam. And even if I were to RE a bunch, they'd kill me, and the dead would return from the bajillion other uplinks around. I hear the situation is worse in PC.
Broken mechanics.
Lol nerf them and you'll gripe about assault spam or scout spam. I would much rather gripe about something that was designed to do a job doing its job. OH wait that's what the nerf hmg issue is. That bad boy was so horrible for so long. I feel for every heavy that played during those days.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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MINA Longstrike
Kirjuun Heiian
1627
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:32:00 -
[25] - Quote
720 dps +/- 15% (612 vs shield, 828 vs armor) with zero skillpoint investment and no damage mods, with skillpoint investment it only gets better and better. It is an incredibly 'low skill' requirement weapon that does disproportionate amounts of damage.
Practically anything within 30m of a HMG dies in less than two seconds of fire unless they get INCREDIBLY lucky.
Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian.
I have a few alts.
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Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4843
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:33:00 -
[26] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:I think they are balanced. A sentinel should be the highest killer on the field in cqc. I kill them all the time when they run point to point so I just avoid areas where they work best. There's no reason to nerf them? I watch them die like idiots for almost a year. I don't mind them being good at something. I think its unfair to nerf anything because it works. But if you call for a nerf that's what you get.
Why are they deemed the most potent CQC dropsuit? That would give them the most durability and highest killing potential... Pick one.
Again with the "avoid areas where they work best" nonsense. The areas they work best also happen to around the VICTORY objectives so this is not a valid argument.
As for killing them when they run point to point, vehicles can provide easy transport for sentinels so that can be a non-factor in squads.
Past performance (good or bad) of an item should not dictate how well it is allowed to perform in the present. If sentinels are overperforming other dropsuits by leaps and bounds then they need to be balanced in some way; turn speed reduction with an HMG, reduce/remove the splash damage resistance, whatever.
Hardcore sentinel mercs can either start offering up ways to balance their profession or let CCP decide their fate without input.
My advice to you, playa...
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Lupus Wolf
Minmatar Republic
40
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:33:00 -
[27] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:I really don't get it?? I run hmg from time to time it does just like I would expect a massive close quarters machine gun would. If you are assault stay outside?? If you are a scout shotgun the guy he cant see you when you're dampened. I don't understand people at all. I guess we really won't ever get to a set game. CCP are you really always going to nerf/buff?
Because ADS has been nerfed, RR has been nerfed, cloak has been nerfed, something else needs to be nerfed for the cycle to continue.
Sky whale mating rituals!!
Go home Damage Indicator, you're drunk
Good, good... let the nanites flow through you
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
546
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:34:00 -
[28] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:I think they are balanced. A sentinel should be the highest killer on the field in cqc. I kill them all the time when they run point to point so I just avoid areas where they work best. There's no reason to nerf them? I watch them die like idiots for almost a year. I don't mind them being good at something. I think its unfair to nerf anything because it works. But if you call for a nerf that's what you get. Why are they deemed the most potent CQC dropsuit? That would give them the most durability and highest killing potential... Pick one. Again with the "avoid areas where they work best" nonsense. The areas they work best also happen to around the VICTORY objectives so this is not a valid argument. As for killing them when they run point to point, vehicles can provide easy transport for sentinels so that can be a non-factor in squads. Past performance (good or bad) of an item should not dictate how well it is allowed to perform in the present. If sentinels are overperforming other dropsuits by leaps and bounds then they need to be balanced in some way; turn speed reduction with an HMG, reduce/remove the splash damage resistance, whatever. Hardcore sentinel mercs can either start offering up ways to balance their profession or let CCP decide their fate without input.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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DDx77
The Exemplars
Top Men.
25
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:43:00 -
[29] - Quote
Only thing I hate is the range, I know that may sound dumb but I think it should be reduced. You can hold down points and area deny almost everything.
Combined with your hp it is the best weapon in the game
It should kill everything cqc |
Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
289
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:46:00 -
[30] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Grenades into a breaching motion. If sentinels didn't get an innate resistance to splash damage this might be more viable. Slight nade buff should be ******* high on CCP to do list. They are nowhere near what they should be and I think everyone would agree.
This, and perhaps a reduction to sentinel explosive resistance. |
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howard sanchez
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1001
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:48:00 -
[31] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think? Jesus I'm starting to think you read my mind.
Maybe the advice should have been: Assaults don't attack HMGs head on. Flank - that's how you counter heavies. Someone posted the truth earlier in this thread when they stated that dust players are just resistant to change and adjusting their play style to the situation at hand.
Adapt and overcome instead of buff/nerf
I feel like we are in the honeymoon phase after our red wedding.
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
551
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 02:49:00 -
[32] - Quote
DDx77 wrote:Only thing I hate is the range, I know that may sound dumb but I think it should be reduced. You can hold down points and area deny almost everything.
Combined with your hp it is the best weapon in the game
It should kill everything cqc
yeah your probably right I killed somebody from way too far away once I thought.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
399
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:51:00 -
[33] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:I really don't get it?? I run hmg from time to time it does just like I would expect a massive close quarters machine gun would. If you are assault stay outside?? If you are a scout shotgun the guy he cant see you when you're dampened. I don't understand people at all. I guess we really won't ever get to a set game. CCP are you really always going to nerf/buff?
I honestly don't know. It doesn't feel like it performs any better recently than it has for the last few months. It feels like there are just more heavies not because of the HMG, but because it can withstand an extra shotgun blast to the back and give it a half sec more time to react and shoot back. HMG is just incidental.. maybe?
Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think?
I agree with this though. I mean, sure heavies should have the advantage in CQC, but Assaults should DEFINITELY be viable... |
Ripley Riley
Incorruptibles
4848
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 02:52:00 -
[34] - Quote
howard sanchez wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think? Jesus I'm starting to think you read my mind. Maybe the advice should have been: Assaults don't attack HMGs head on. Flank - that's how you counter heavies. Someone posted the truth earlier in this thread when they stated that dust players are just resistant to change and adjusting their play style to the situation at hand. Adapt and overcome instead of buff/nerf How the **** do you flank someone holed up in a hallway, exactly? How do you flank someone who has a twin HMG sent strapped to his hip and a logi repping then both? How do you flank someone who is able to turn the same speed as the lightest suit in the game and thus retaliate fast enough to put you down before you kill him?
My advice to you, playa...
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
554
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 02:53:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:howard sanchez wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think? Jesus I'm starting to think you read my mind. Maybe the advice should have been: Assaults don't attack HMGs head on. Flank - that's how you counter heavies. Someone posted the truth earlier in this thread when they stated that dust players are just resistant to change and adjusting their play style to the situation at hand. Adapt and overcome instead of buff/nerf How the **** do you flank someone holed up in a hallway, exactly? How do you flank someone who has a twin HMG sent strapped to his hip and a logi repping then both? How do you flank someone eho is able to turn the sam speed as the lightest suit in the game and thus retaliate fast enough to put you down before you kill him?
Lol you know the answer to this.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
554
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 02:54:00 -
[36] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:I really don't get it?? I run hmg from time to time it does just like I would expect a massive close quarters machine gun would. If you are assault stay outside?? If you are a scout shotgun the guy he cant see you when you're dampened. I don't understand people at all. I guess we really won't ever get to a set game. CCP are you really always going to nerf/buff? I honestly don't know. It doesn't feel like it performs any better recently than it has for the last few months. It feels like there are just more heavies not because of the HMG, but because it can withstand an extra shotgun blast to the back and give it a half sec more time to react and shoot back. HMG is just incidental.. maybe? Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think? I agree with this though. I mean, sure heavies should have the advantage in CQC, but Assaults should DEFINITELY be viable...
That's an insanely intuitive thought. I think that is cause and effect. You may be 100% correct!
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Monty Mole Clone
Ametat Security
Amarr Empire
248
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 02:56:00 -
[37] - Quote
Powerh8er wrote:Because they are a bunch of nerds. NERDS!
http://youtu.be/gZEdDMQZaCU
all animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others
goebbels would be proud
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1921
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 02:57:00 -
[38] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:I really don't get it?? I run hmg from time to time it does just like I would expect a massive close quarters machine gun would. If you are assault stay outside?? If you are a scout shotgun the guy he cant see you when you're dampened. I don't understand people at all. I guess we really won't ever get to a set game. CCP are you really always going to nerf/buff?
its just the scouts QQing cause a hmg eats their tiny ehp because the amount of lead down field actually gets past their matrix bullet dodgeing.
disregard all QQ and whine about hmgs
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
1923
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 02:59:00 -
[39] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:
Lol you know the answer to this.
sounds like Frisbee time.
[[LogiBro ADV/PRO]] [[Level 1 Forum Warrior]] [[Level 2 Forum Pariah]]
All Hail our Lord and Savior CCP RATTATTI o7
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howard sanchez
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1003
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 03:00:00 -
[40] - Quote
Imp Smash wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:I really don't get it?? I run hmg from time to time it does just like I would expect a massive close quarters machine gun would. If you are assault stay outside?? If you are a scout shotgun the guy he cant see you when you're dampened. I don't understand people at all. I guess we really won't ever get to a set game. CCP are you really always going to nerf/buff? I honestly don't know. It doesn't feel like it performs any better recently than it has for the last few months. It feels like there are just more heavies not because of the HMG, but because it can withstand an extra shotgun blast to the back and give it a half sec more time to react and shoot back. HMG is just incidental.. maybe? Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think? I agree with this though. I mean, sure heavies should have the advantage in CQC, but Assaults should DEFINITELY be viable...
And this is a good thing. This is what. We should want - squads and players adjusting fits and tactics to the current map and meta. The different suits and weapons need to be in just close enough balance relative to their intended scope and role but not hard locked into rigid parity with everything else.
You only feel the force multiplying effects of coordinated teamwork and mixed weapon systems when employing those makes sense. If the big data suggests that the heavy frame/hmg use is beginning to mitigate the cloak/shotgun meta then waiting to make hot fix adjustments may be prudent.
I feel like we are in the honeymoon phase after our red wedding.
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Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
2855
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:07:00 -
[41] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:I really don't get it?? I run hmg from time to time it does just like I would expect a massive close quarters machine gun would. If you are assault stay outside?? If you are a scout shotgun the guy he cant see you when you're dampened. I don't understand people at all. I guess we really won't ever get to a set game. CCP are you really always going to nerf/buff? its just the scouts QQing cause a hmg eats their tiny ehp because the amount of lead down field actually gets past their matrix bullet dodgeing. disregard all QQ and whine about hmgs
Actually, my scout doesn't mind HMG's. The muzzle flash gives me enough time to run away, and my high alpha arsenal is enough to kill any heavy except amarr bricked from behind.
My assault on the other hand...I find no counter to them at all. Remotes take too long to arm and are very VERY easy to avoid except in PC city scenarios. My rifle barely outranges their HMG, and if they move towards me Im ******.
If I am within 30 meters of them, its a very difficult kill. They are the hardest thing in the game for me as an assault to kill.
Id personally love to see their off-tank reduced a bit.
"Minja" and "Masochist" are synonyms.
FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ
I piss Remote Explosives and shit Shotgun shells.
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Vitantur Nothus
Nos Nothi
291
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:08:00 -
[42] - Quote
howard sanchez wrote:
And this is a good thing. This is what. We should want - squads and players adjusting fits and tactics to the current map and meta. The different suits and weapons need to be in just close enough balance relative to their intended scope and role but not hard locked into rigid parity with everything else.
You only feel the force multiplying effects of coordinated teamwork and mixed weapon systems when employing those makes sense. If the big data suggests that the heavy frame/hmg use is beginning to mitigate the cloak/shotgun meta then waiting to make hot fix adjustments may be prudent.
Per Rattati, the data demonstrates that HMG Heavies dominate competitive play; don't you think "beginning to mitigate" might be a 'bit of an understatement? And how is HMG Heavy Spam an example of a "mixed weapon system"? |
Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
558
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 03:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p wrote:Apothecary Za'ki wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:I really don't get it?? I run hmg from time to time it does just like I would expect a massive close quarters machine gun would. If you are assault stay outside?? If you are a scout shotgun the guy he cant see you when you're dampened. I don't understand people at all. I guess we really won't ever get to a set game. CCP are you really always going to nerf/buff? its just the scouts QQing cause a hmg eats their tiny ehp because the amount of lead down field actually gets past their matrix bullet dodgeing. disregard all QQ and whine about hmgs Actually, my scout doesn't mind HMG's. The muzzle flash gives me enough time to run away, and my high alpha arsenal is enough to kill any heavy except amarr bricked from behind. My assault on the other hand...I find no counter to them at all. Remotes take too long to arm and are very VERY easy to avoid except in PC city scenarios. My rifle barely outranges their HMG, and if they move towards me Im ******. If I am within 30 meters of them, its a very difficult kill. They are the hardest thing in the game for me as an assault to kill. Id personally love to see their off-tank reduced a bit.
I would really like to see the assault class get a lot more reppy and a little more ewar. WOULD BE FANTASTIC!
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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GLOBAL fils'de RAGE
Consolidated Dust
44
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:16:00 -
[44] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:I think they are balanced. A sentinel should be the highest killer on the field in cqc. I kill them all the time when they run point to point so I just avoid areas where they work best. There's no reason to nerf them? I watch them die like idiots for almost a year. I don't mind them being good at something. I think its unfair to nerf anything because it works. But if you call for a nerf that's what you get. Why are they deemed the most potent CQC dropsuit? That would give them the most durability and highest killing potential... Pick one. Again with the "avoid areas where they work best" nonsense. The areas they work best also happen to around the VICTORY objectives so this is not a valid argument. As for killing them when they run point to point, vehicles can provide easy transport for sentinels so that can be a non-factor in squads. Past performance (good or bad) of an item should not dictate how well it is allowed to perform in the present. If sentinels are overperforming other dropsuits by leaps and bounds then they need to be balanced in some way; turn speed reduction with an HMG, reduce/remove the splash damage resistance, whatever. Hardcore sentinel mercs can either start offering up ways to balance their profession or let CCP decide their fate without input.
As a hardcore omni you QQ'ing buttercups should HTFU!
There you made me say it - HTFU.
The spawning is the problem. Get rid of objective spawning and tone down the drop uplinks-increase the per spawn reward.
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Minmatar Mercenary 9292
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
526
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:16:00 -
[45] - Quote
It's the map design and spawning on points that makes sentinels annoying for me. as an assault id love to stay outside but unfortunately 90% of the objectives in this game are inside, or if there outside there in some underground bunker some fat ass can hide in, combine this with the ability to spawn in on a point and it makes it a real pain in the ass to cap an objective. I love having kept my distance and clearing the heavies from a point only to have another one spawn in, if it's on an uplink fair game my bad for not clearing the link but it isn't fair that after engaging correctly and killing him he can just spawn on my nuts and fight me in his territory.
I may aswell never hack anything because it's usually what happens, a scout or medium spawning in I can deal with but there isn't fighting a heavy up close any more unless he's terrible, which is fine it's his role it's just other factors that **** me off about it rather than the gun or suit itself.
Da only good Amarr is a ded Amarr, an de ony fing betta than a ded one, is a dyin one who tells ya were 'is mates is!
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Everything Dies
FUNNY NAME GOES HERE
1080
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:17:00 -
[46] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:
I would really like to see the assault class get a lot more reppy and a little more ewar. WOULD BE FANTASTIC!
I've made this argument before: the assault class should be the hunter/killers of the game and have the best inert scanning ability of any class.
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
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hfderrtgvcd
1183
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:20:00 -
[47] - Quote
I was just in a pc with 10 hmg sentinels on the enemy team. That should tell you all you need to know.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
558
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:24:00 -
[48] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:I was just in a pc with 10 hmg sentinels on the enemy team. That should tell you all you need to know.
what map?
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4559
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 03:29:00 -
[49] - Quote
The point is this.
You can talk all about how HMG should be the best weapon in CQC.
If you give a suit 1.5-2x the ehp of the next highest EHP suit...and then also give him a weapon that does the best CQC damage by a not insignificant amount...
and make MOST Skirmish maps have objectives that require CQC fighting (name a skirm map that doesn't have > 40% of objectives in a CQC enclosed space...and have uplinks that can be spammed near said objective that mitigates the heavies slow speed by putting them RIGHT on the objective (let alone the fact you can SPAWN on objectives -_-)
To say nothing of the passive scans negating first shot opportunities for any other class except the scout...
yeah..you're gonna have the PC population realize it's best to just spam the **** out of heavies. They become the best at assaulting points AND defending points from a blob assault (scouts do better if you're leaving just one or 2 people on point defense until the enemy commits to zerging the point with 4+) when you're facing a blob...scouts have to count on RE's because they aren't going to last if the blob has anywhere near decent awareness/communication.
Doesn't help also that assaults and logi's suck compared to heavies at killing shotty/re cloaky scouts....the other most broken **** in PC.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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GLOBAL fils'de RAGE
Consolidated Dust
44
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:30:00 -
[50] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Fizzer XCIV wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think? Grenades into a breaching motion. Multiple assaults could be used to take those heavies down. But not a lot of people are good at that stuff. or have a squad to support that kind of move. So no I'm saying play to your strength. And outside mid to long range is your role as assault. close to mid is heavy and scout. you know? So what are the AR and CR wielding Assaults supposed to do then? Not play? And ranges aren't dictated by class at all... what makes you get that idea? Ranges are dictated by weapon choice. If you choose combat rifle your awesome vs 2 types of heavies right? and vice versa for rail rifle or ar? At a distance of about 30-60 meters they aren't even competitive HMG. So honestly blame map design not weapons or suits. They are pretty well balanced.
As a Caldari, I demand a "salt flats" map so that we can use fuktarded EVE lore space pew pew tactics and stratergereeez! |
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
565
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:41:00 -
[51] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:The point is this.
You can talk all about how HMG should be the best weapon in CQC.
If you give a suit 1.5-2x the ehp of the next highest EHP suit...and then also give him a weapon that does the best CQC damage by a not insignificant amount...
and make MOST Skirmish maps have objectives that require CQC fighting (name a skirm map that doesn't have > 40% of objectives in a CQC enclosed space...and have uplinks that can be spammed near said objective that mitigates the heavies slow speed by putting them RIGHT on the objective (let alone the fact you can SPAWN on objectives -_-)
To say nothing of the passive scans negating first shot opportunities for any other class except the scout...
yeah..you're gonna have the PC population realize it's best to just spam the **** out of heavies. They become the best at assaulting points AND defending points from a blob assault (scouts do better if you're leaving just one or 2 people on point defense until the enemy commits to zerging the point with 4+) when you're facing a blob...scouts have to count on RE's because they aren't going to last if the blob has anywhere near decent awareness/communication.
Doesn't help also that assaults and logi's suck compared to heavies at killing shotty/re cloaky scouts....the other most broken **** in PC.
Mind BLOWN>)
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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hfderrtgvcd
1185
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:41:00 -
[52] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:I was just in a pc with 10 hmg sentinels on the enemy team. That should tell you all you need to know. what map?
rings, 2 in 2 out. Thats irrelevant though. There should never be 10 suits from one class on one team.
You can't fight in here! This is the war room.
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
565
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Posted - 2014.11.17 03:43:00 -
[53] - Quote
hfderrtgvcd wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:hfderrtgvcd wrote:I was just in a pc with 10 hmg sentinels on the enemy team. That should tell you all you need to know. what map? rings, 2 in 2 out. Thats irrelevant though. There should never be 10 suits from one class on one team.
disagree holding 2 points is the best for that map ninja hack one outside point and dominate city. Pretty sound logic to me.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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howard sanchez
Murphys-Law
General Tso's Alliance
1005
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Posted - 2014.11.17 04:00:00 -
[54] - Quote
Ripley Riley wrote:howard sanchez wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think? Jesus I'm starting to think you read my mind. Maybe the advice should have been: Assaults don't attack HMGs head on. Flank - that's how you counter heavies. Someone posted the truth earlier in this thread when they stated that dust players are just resistant to change and adjusting their play style to the situation at hand. Adapt and overcome instead of buff/nerf How the **** do you flank someone holed up in a hallway, exactly? How do you flank someone who has a twin HMG sent strapped to his hip and a logi repping then both? How do you flank someone who is able to turn the same speed as the lightest suit in the game and thus retaliate fast enough to put you down before you kill him?
Just ask yourself what everyone else is b1tch1ng about. Scouts, cloaks, breach AR, remote frisbee.
The meta is the players' answer to perceived imbalance. And that's ok. If CCP gets the various weapons and suits into a rough zone of balance ( not 'perfect' balance at all), then the community will use the meta to adjust the game. Too many scouts? HMG in CQC, too many HMG? Speed, stealth and flanking. Too much of that? Scanning to spot them early...whatever- as long as the big data doesn't show a statistically significant trend just allow the player base to seek imperfect equilibrium.
I feel like we are in the honeymoon phase after our red wedding.
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
567
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Posted - 2014.11.17 04:08:00 -
[55] - Quote
people hate hmg cause it works is my conclusion. It's not fulfilling any role other than intended. The glaring issue is map design. All maps hold points at cqc with cover. That's all I can ascertain. Reluctance to use RE'S and nades. Carry on all nothing to do with hmg's. Build a map for cqc and get 1,2,3 most kills from close range weapons. o7 B I tche s
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
249
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Posted - 2014.11.17 04:18:00 -
[56] - Quote
Sentinels have a huge HP pool, to that effect I think the basic and advanced Hmg require a damage decrease and a spread/heat increase.
One other way to counter this would be to add a "running engine" speed buildup, as in, the hmg starts out with half its ROF and by the 50% heat mark this is at 100% firing capacity, but after that it's accuracy increases, so to counter the Extreme rof the kick increases too.... Allows suppression and crowd control without being potent as a "spam suit" to deal with everything solo
NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES
nerf life
Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
568
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 04:21:00 -
[57] - Quote
manboar thunder fist wrote:Sentinels have a huge HP pool, to that effect I think the basic and advanced Hmg require a damage decrease and a spread/heat increase.
One other way to counter this would be to add a "running engine" speed buildup, as in, the hmg starts out with half its ROF and by the 50% heat mark this is at 100% firing capacity, but after that it's accuracy increases, so to counter the Extreme rof the kick increases too.... Allows suppression and crowd control without being potent as a "spam suit" to deal with everything solo
I read this 3 times. I'd like to see it before its implemented but I do like a steady spool up. As in rate of fire increases over time. Starting slow to insanely fast before an overheat. That just sounds fun!
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
293
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 04:26:00 -
[58] - Quote
Heavies get hate because they're fat.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
568
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 04:28:00 -
[59] - Quote
Quasar Storm wrote:Heavies get hate because they're fat.
profiling is wrong!
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Quasar Storm
0uter.Heaven
293
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Posted - 2014.11.17 04:32:00 -
[60] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Quasar Storm wrote:Heavies get hate because they're fat. profiling is wrong!
No really, They are fat. Which makes them easy targets. Psychologically & physically. I even know a few that seem to have self-esteem issues. I always try to pep them up, But it never works.
ADS & Tank pilot.
Drifting on Stormy Seas.
The "Eh" Team
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Xocoyol Zaraoul
Superior Genetics
2748
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Posted - 2014.11.17 04:42:00 -
[61] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Jacques Cayton II wrote:I love the hmg but its beimg spammed so it will receive a nerf and thats why if it should receive ome just the heat build up should increase nothing else I have to blame map design for this. If you have a bunch of maps conducive to close quarters then duh your going to have hmg's and shotguns everywhere.
So much this, fix the damn maps, and make new "large" sockets properly open, with far faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar spaced catwalks and such encouraging fights outside of spiball HMG range.
"You see those red dots over there?
Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
573
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Posted - 2014.11.17 04:44:00 -
[62] - Quote
Quasar Storm wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Quasar Storm wrote:Heavies get hate because they're fat. profiling is wrong! No really, They are fat. Which makes them easy targets. Psychologically & physically. I even know a few that seem to have self-esteem issues. I always try to pep them up, But it never works.
OMG LOL!
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
573
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 04:45:00 -
[63] - Quote
Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Jacques Cayton II wrote:I love the hmg but its beimg spammed so it will receive a nerf and thats why if it should receive ome just the heat build up should increase nothing else I have to blame map design for this. If you have a bunch of maps conducive to close quarters then duh your going to have hmg's and shotguns everywhere. So much this, fix the damn maps, and make new "large" sockets properly open, with far faaaaaaaaaaaaaaar spaced catwalks and such encouraging fights outside of spiball HMG range.
yep 100% the actual issue for all classes.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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DarthPlagueis TheWise
412
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Posted - 2014.11.17 05:06:00 -
[64] - Quote
it's really ridiculous. heavies are such easy, slow targets that people should be ashamed of themselves for thinking they're OP now that the burst problem is gone.
just get a ******* breach AR and mow them down
F*k this cash grab fix the shit that matters: unkillable uplinks, invisible remotes on null cannon hack panels, etc.
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Zatara Rought
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4599
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 05:12:00 -
[65] - Quote
DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:it's really ridiculous. heavies are such easy, slow targets that people should be ashamed of themselves for thinking they're OP now that the burst problem is gone.
just get a ******* breach AR and mow them down
LMAO...50 mill says you come use an assault or logi suit and you'll go negative if you even remotely attempt to push a point in PC.
I'll pull 15 FA in and you vs KEQ and watch you get spammed until you ragequit and only pride prevents you from recanting this asburd assertion.
B3RT > PFBHz > TEAM > MHPD > IMPS > FA
They call me ~Princess Zatata~
Skype: Zatara.Rought Twitter: @ZataraRought
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
576
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 05:12:00 -
[66] - Quote
DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:it's really ridiculous. heavies are such easy, slow targets that people should be ashamed of themselves for thinking they're OP now that the burst problem is gone.
just get a ******* breach AR and mow them down
no doubt
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
576
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 05:14:00 -
[67] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:it's really ridiculous. heavies are such easy, slow targets that people should be ashamed of themselves for thinking they're OP now that the burst problem is gone.
just get a ******* breach AR and mow them down LMAO...50 mill says you come use an assault or logi suit and you'll go negative. I'll pull 15 FA in and you vs KEQ and watch you get spammed until you ragequit and only pride prevents you from recanting this asburd assertion.
in pc absolutely LOL
but outside... the gal assault will go positive as long as that heavy is logi less. Zatara does know pc very well and in the city yes your assault suit will go negative.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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GRIM GEAR
411
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Posted - 2014.11.17 05:17:00 -
[68] - Quote
I don't see what the big deal is, most sentinels go down with a cooked flux grenade followed up with a clip from a cbr and smg.
One day you will wake up and realize that time waits for no one.
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
576
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 05:22:00 -
[69] - Quote
GRIM GEAR wrote:I don't see what the big deal is, most sentinels go down with a cooked flux grenade followed up with a clip from a cbr and smg.
Man I agree with you 100% the issue is map design you are forced to fight heavies and scouts in their game. This is ccp's issue. I was a sniper for the longest time. I stopped it because map design phased them out. I was the best man. I don't care about what anyone says I was the best. But due to the layouts and design of many maps it just became useless. I didn't hate I just had to change my game. I love this game but it forces me to play it in a way I don't want to. Hence the hate for heavy's. Don't make your maps situationally conducive to a certain class. CCP has made this game all CQC. Heavies and scouts are bound to rule it because of that..
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Henrietta Unknown
Kirjuun Heiian
483
|
Posted - 2014.11.17 05:26:00 -
[70] - Quote
GRIM GEAR wrote:I don't see what the big deal is, most sentinels go down with a cooked flux grenade followed up with a clip from a cbr and smg.
Also at range the hmg is pretty much useless at killing except for weakened std suits with no shield.
If you're lucky enough to not be their target in focus.
You'd better have some solid skills and a ton of luck if you're going to do that to a Sentinel hellbent on mowing you down within his optimal, which is close to the ranges of a ton of general weapons.
Give the Magsex some love.
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GLOBAL fils'de RAGE
Consolidated Dust
47
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Posted - 2014.11.17 06:31:00 -
[71] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:it's really ridiculous. heavies are such easy, slow targets that people should be ashamed of themselves for thinking they're OP now that the burst problem is gone.
just get a ******* breach AR and mow them down LMAO...50 mill says you come use an assault or logi suit and you'll go negative if you even remotely attempt to push a point in PC. I'll pull 15 FA in and you vs KEQ and watch you get spammed until you ragequit and only pride prevents you from recanting this asburd assertion.
wow!
sounds like the maps and socket are worn out! why don't you use your typing skills and assault CCP for new content. 1.9 is 7 months late and slight at that. New game modes i.e. capture a vehicle or bomb or something that will challenge the minds of the population.
while you're at it work on a solution to the latency problems in this game, so that real FPS players will take DUST514 as a serious alternative to the AAA titles-then come back and tell us about competition PC.
the latency needs to get fixed before EVE LOOT gets green lit anyway. |
manboar thunder fist
Dead Man's Game
RUST415
249
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 10:25:00 -
[72] - Quote
The problem for heavy vs assault is that the heavy has a 40m range for full lethal damage, which is pretty fast TTK in comparison to an assaults weapons. Seeing as AR and CR damage dips off fast after 60m this creates a larger range for the heavy to engage than the assault, which is the problem.
The spool up rof increase needs to be implemented, heavies just have the advantage with their instablap gun, it should have worked like the LR from the beginning, with higher heat equalling more damage but more dispersion.
NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES
nerf life
Delta- bye bye ads, bye bye scr
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Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5100
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Posted - 2014.11.18 11:05:00 -
[73] - Quote
manboar thunder fist wrote:The problem for heavy vs assault is that the heavy has a 40m range for full lethal damage, which is pretty fast TTK in comparison to an assaults weapons. Seeing as AR and CR damage dips off fast after 60m this creates a larger range for the heavy to engage than the assault, which is the problem.
The spool up rof increase needs to be implemented, heavies just have the advantage with their instablap gun, it should have worked like the LR from the beginning, with higher heat equalling more damage but more dispersion.
30m. Not 40.
30.
Get your ranges straight. Only the assault HMG gets 40.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1903
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 11:12:00 -
[74] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:I think they are balanced. A sentinel should be the highest killer on the field in cqc. I kill them all the time when they run point to point so I just avoid areas where they work best. There's no reason to nerf them? I watch them die like idiots for almost a year. I don't mind them being good at something. I think its unfair to nerf anything because it works. But if you call for a nerf that's what you get. Why are they deemed the most potent CQC dropsuit? That would give them the most durability and highest killing potential... Pick one. Again with the "avoid areas where they work best" nonsense. The areas they work best also happen to around the VICTORY objectives so this is not a valid argument. As for killing them when they run point to point, vehicles can provide easy transport for sentinels so that can be a non-factor in squads. Past performance (good or bad) of an item should not dictate how well it is allowed to perform in the present. If sentinels are overperforming other dropsuits by leaps and bounds then they need to be balanced in some way; turn speed reduction with an HMG, reduce/remove the splash damage resistance, whatever. Hardcore sentinel mercs can either start offering up ways to balance their profession or let CCP decide their fate without input. I'm not arguing and this game was explained to me as role oriented which means each class has a job and specialty. If you want to tear down my thoughts that's fine. I stand happy with heavies being difficult enemies capable of being scary. I'd rather that then not see a scout shotgun me in the back. Assault suits can fit shotguns and Re's also core locus nades. Heavies have an hmg that overheats 2 nades and that's it unless accompanied by a logi. I don't care what anyone says. I don't think snipers should be nerfed to where they are helplessly exposed to enemies. I don't think Logi's should be nerfed due to massive warpoint earnings. This is all pretty well balanced but we gotta keep going through nerf/buff cycles forever don't we? if they nerf heavys CQC killing power then the class will be completely useless. map design is the reason heavys get spamed not because heavy is the all around best suit to use.
KEQ diplomat/ lolromansboat cost more then your whole village
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CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1903
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 11:19:00 -
[75] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:it's really ridiculous. heavies are such easy, slow targets that people should be ashamed of themselves for thinking they're OP now that the burst problem is gone.
just get a ******* breach AR and mow them down LMAO...50 mill says you come use an assault or logi suit and you'll go negative if you even remotely attempt to push a point in PC. I'll pull 15 FA in and you vs KEQ and watch you get spammed until you ragequit and only pride prevents you from recanting this asburd assertion. put him in coach i feed on assaults and logis and there little bb guns.
KEQ diplomat/ lolromansboat cost more then your whole village
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
569
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 11:50:00 -
[76] - Quote
CUSE TOWN333 wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:I think they are balanced. A sentinel should be the highest killer on the field in cqc. I kill them all the time when they run point to point so I just avoid areas where they work best. There's no reason to nerf them? I watch them die like idiots for almost a year. I don't mind them being good at something. I think its unfair to nerf anything because it works. But if you call for a nerf that's what you get. Why are they deemed the most potent CQC dropsuit? That would give them the most durability and highest killing potential... Pick one. Again with the "avoid areas where they work best" nonsense. The areas they work best also happen to around the VICTORY objectives so this is not a valid argument. As for killing them when they run point to point, vehicles can provide easy transport for sentinels so that can be a non-factor in squads. Past performance (good or bad) of an item should not dictate how well it is allowed to perform in the present. If sentinels are overperforming other dropsuits by leaps and bounds then they need to be balanced in some way; turn speed reduction with an HMG, reduce/remove the splash damage resistance, whatever. Hardcore sentinel mercs can either start offering up ways to balance their profession or let CCP decide their fate without input. I'm not arguing and this game was explained to me as role oriented which means each class has a job and specialty. If you want to tear down my thoughts that's fine. I stand happy with heavies being difficult enemies capable of being scary. I'd rather that then not see a scout shotgun me in the back. Assault suits can fit shotguns and Re's also core locus nades. Heavies have an hmg that overheats 2 nades and that's it unless accompanied by a logi. I don't care what anyone says. I don't think snipers should be nerfed to where they are helplessly exposed to enemies. I don't think Logi's should be nerfed due to massive warpoint earnings. This is all pretty well balanced but we gotta keep going through nerf/buff cycles forever don't we? if they nerf heavys CQC killing power then the class will be completely useless. map design is the reason heavys get spamed not because heavy is the all around best suit to use.
They wouldn't be useless. While map design is probably the biggest problem, giving heavies a small hit would be easier than changing the maps. The heavy should either lose eHP or DPS. |
CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1904
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 12:03:00 -
[77] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:CUSE TOWN333 wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:I think they are balanced. A sentinel should be the highest killer on the field in cqc. I kill them all the time when they run point to point so I just avoid areas where they work best. There's no reason to nerf them? I watch them die like idiots for almost a year. I don't mind them being good at something. I think its unfair to nerf anything because it works. But if you call for a nerf that's what you get. Why are they deemed the most potent CQC dropsuit? That would give them the most durability and highest killing potential... Pick one. Again with the "avoid areas where they work best" nonsense. The areas they work best also happen to around the VICTORY objectives so this is not a valid argument. As for killing them when they run point to point, vehicles can provide easy transport for sentinels so that can be a non-factor in squads. Past performance (good or bad) of an item should not dictate how well it is allowed to perform in the present. If sentinels are overperforming other dropsuits by leaps and bounds then they need to be balanced in some way; turn speed reduction with an HMG, reduce/remove the splash damage resistance, whatever. Hardcore sentinel mercs can either start offering up ways to balance their profession or let CCP decide their fate without input. I'm not arguing and this game was explained to me as role oriented which means each class has a job and specialty. If you want to tear down my thoughts that's fine. I stand happy with heavies being difficult enemies capable of being scary. I'd rather that then not see a scout shotgun me in the back. Assault suits can fit shotguns and Re's also core locus nades. Heavies have an hmg that overheats 2 nades and that's it unless accompanied by a logi. I don't care what anyone says. I don't think snipers should be nerfed to where they are helplessly exposed to enemies. I don't think Logi's should be nerfed due to massive warpoint earnings. This is all pretty well balanced but we gotta keep going through nerf/buff cycles forever don't we? if they nerf heavys CQC killing power then the class will be completely useless. map design is the reason heavys get spamed not because heavy is the all around best suit to use. They wouldn't be useless. While map design is probably the biggest problem, giving heavies a small hit would be easier than changing the maps. The heavy should either lose eHP or DPS. as of right now i see heavys and scouts as neck and neck in PC. be aware that any nerf to heavys and you will now see full 16 man teams of scouts. i don't want to to see 16 scouts buff the assaults and logis and you will see every suit on a team with balance for once.
KEQ diplomat/ lolromansboat cost more then your whole village
|
robin williams' ghost
Damaged Beyond Repair
60
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 12:21:00 -
[78] - Quote
Go ahead ccp, nerf the hmg, the bar is seemingly more powerful than the hmg anyways. Guess it will just be sentinels everywhere with the bar.....fml
Yes, I'm trolling. Get over it.
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Echo 1991
WarRavens
Capital Punishment.
570
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 12:43:00 -
[79] - Quote
I hate scouts more than heavies cuse, I dont want to see that either. I think scouts and heavies need slight changes and the other 3 suits need small buffs. |
Operative 1174 Uuali
the unholy legion of darkstar
DARKSTAR ARMY
98
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 12:45:00 -
[80] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Like a lot of QQ on the forum it boils down to "it's not my preferred weapon / playstyle and I'm too lazy to properly counter it".
No, the situations on most maps means only one choice in confronting heavies and it is to their advantage. Why the hell should everyone have to go RE or scout to deal with a heavy? It is no good anyway when they are being spammed to hold an inside objective and will just respawn right back.
I'm better than laser focused; I'm hybrid focused.
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Everything Dies
FUNNY NAME GOES HERE
1083
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 12:56:00 -
[81] - Quote
Poor CCP:
So many people complained about snipers being able to fire into nodes that they decided to enclose most objectives; as a result, players now use heavy suits (as they should) to act as point defense in CQC...and now players are unhappy with this.
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
|
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5105
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 13:16:00 -
[82] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:Poor CCP:
So many people complained about snipers being able to fire into nodes that they decided to enclose most objectives; as a result, players now use heavy suits (as they should) to act as point defense in CQC...and now players are unhappy with this.
This is a statement which has no basis in reality.
Sentinel spam came about organically. Rather like cancer in fact.
But the cause was the simultaneous nerfing of battle rifles and buffing sentinel HP via resists without addressing HMG death vomit.
Snipers were a nonfactor. Just like they always have been a nonfactor.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2485
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 13:29:00 -
[83] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think? Jesus I'm starting to think you read my mind.
How is that bullshiit?
You take a medium suit, you then try and go stand toe to toe with a heavy suit in CQC, and there should be an even playing field?
What game are we playing here? We where never ment to hold the hands of every player because there is a distinct disadvantage in a certain area.
Heavies have hard counters in Scouts. It has been this way since the inception of DUST when scouts where called Arbiters before the Moniker of "Scout" even got placed on the suit.
What ends a CQC Heavy quick? A CQC Shotgun.
You can even build a medium suit with speed and a shotgun for these scenarios.
But Nerfing a class because they are too good at it's intended role is about as STUPID of a reason to nerf something that happens in DUST. Specially when that class is almost useless and walks around with it's hands tied behind it's back in any medium - Long range engagements.
Rouge and Rattati already told us they are working further on Racial content for DUST 514. How about we wait to balance and spend man hours on the HMG buff or nerf until we get the full set of racial weapons for Heavies.
Nerfing their one automatic gun simply because there are more users using the gun makes your mind hurt as you try and wrap it around the concept. |
CUSE TOWN333
KILL-EM-QUICK
RISE of LEGION
1904
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 13:36:00 -
[84] - Quote
Echo 1991 wrote:I hate scouts more than heavies cuse, I dont want to see that either. I think scouts and heavies need slight changes and the other 3 suits need small buffs. well CCP is horribly bad with nerfing something as it ends up useless. if heavys and scouts are fairly balanced with each other the logical thing would be to buff assaults and logis. things like a damage bonus to the weapon on a assault and extra grenades would make them CQQ viable. i have all ways felt medium suits should have super fast regenerating HP to give them a edge. heavys and scouts are a problem so fix the other suits that have been UP for far to long. STOP NERFING
KEQ diplomat/ lolromansboat cost more then your whole village
|
Everything Dies
FUNNY NAME GOES HERE
1083
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 13:44:00 -
[85] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Everything Dies wrote:Poor CCP:
So many people complained about snipers being able to fire into nodes that they decided to enclose most objectives; as a result, players now use heavy suits (as they should) to act as point defense in CQC...and now players are unhappy with this. This is a statement which has no basis in reality. Sentinel spam came about organically. Rather like cancer in fact. But the cause was the simultaneous nerfing of battle rifles and buffing sentinel HP via resists without addressing HMG death vomit. Snipers were a nonfactor. Just like they always have been a nonfactor.
Aside from the fact that CCP stated that the sockets that were introduced last time were done with the express purpose of limiting the ability of snipers to defend nodes? Or that this process was repeated again with 1.9?
CCP began the process of enclosing objectives to promote fighting at closer distances; of course people are going to utilize suits that are tailored around that exact playstyle.
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof
|
KING CHECKMATE
Opus Arcana
Covert Intervention
5898
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 13:48:00 -
[86] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:I really don't get it?? I run hmg from time to time it does just like I would expect a massive close quarters machine gun would. If you are assault stay outside?? If you are a scout shotgun the guy he cant see you when you're dampened. I don't understand people at all. I guess we really won't ever get to a set game. CCP are you really always going to nerf/buff?
Grease:''Why the hmg hate?''
K.Checkmate: Because it kills me at 40+mts while im trying to down a Sentinel with a SCR or a Breach AR, and i dont think the weapon was made for that kind of range. At least not the regular variant and the burst.
Needs a RANGE nerf ASAP.
The best Damage mod is a HEADSHOT....
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2194
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 13:54:00 -
[87] - Quote
Zatara Rought wrote:The point is this.
You can talk all about how HMG should be the best weapon in CQC.
If you give a suit 1.5-2x the ehp of the next highest EHP suit...and then also give him a weapon that does the best CQC damage by a not insignificant amount...
and make MOST Skirmish maps have objectives that require CQC fighting (name a skirm map that doesn't have > 40% of objectives in a CQC enclosed space...and have uplinks that can be spammed near said objective that mitigates the heavies slow speed by putting them RIGHT on the objective (let alone the fact you can SPAWN on objectives -_-)
To say nothing of the passive scans negating first shot opportunities for any other class except the scout...
yeah..you're gonna have the PC population realize it's best to just spam the **** out of heavies. They become the best at assaulting points AND defending points from a blob assault (scouts do better if you're leaving just one or 2 people on point defense until the enemy commits to zerging the point with 4+) when you're facing a blob...scouts have to count on RE's because they aren't going to last if the blob has anywhere near decent awareness/communication.
Doesn't help also that assaults and logi's suck compared to heavies at killing shotty/re cloaky scouts....the other most broken **** in PC.
^^^ gets the problem.
What's the solution?
Make Heavies easier to remove from their enclosed areas?
But how?
IMO, it is somehow making the Assault class a more viable counter. The answer is not in Scouts, which have an imbalance of their own. |
Breakin Stuff
Goonfeet
Special Planetary Emergency Response Group
5107
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 13:54:00 -
[88] - Quote
Up until 1.8, well after the enclosure meta the rule of the day was assault/logi.
Sentinels were rare.
It was the simultaneous nerfing of rifles and assigning resistance to sentinels that caused the meta to change.
Snipers were merely annoying because they thought they were more important than they actually were.
So no.
Snipers being removed from the objectives didn't cause sentinel spam. Considering the fact that sentinels could soak sniper fire like champs before recent changes if snipers were that big of a problem rather than a nonstop irritation everyone would have run sentinels before then.
Don't assign importance where there is none.
EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
|
postapo wastelander
Wasteland Desert Rangers
674
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 14:06:00 -
[89] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:I really don't get it?? I run hmg from time to time it does just like I would expect a massive close quarters machine gun would. If you are assault stay outside?? If you are a scout shotgun the guy he cant see you when you're dampened. I don't understand people at all. I guess we really won't ever get to a set game. CCP are you really always going to nerf/buff?
Because RR was nerfed, caldarians RR community want to nerf everything now boyo 
"Savvy"
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Bethhy
Ancient Exiles.
2486
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 14:07:00 -
[90] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:it's really ridiculous. heavies are such easy, slow targets that people should be ashamed of themselves for thinking they're OP now that the burst problem is gone.
just get a ******* breach AR and mow them down LMAO...50 mill says you come use an assault or logi suit and you'll go negative. I'll pull 15 FA in and you vs KEQ and watch you get spammed until you ragequit and only pride prevents you from recanting this asburd assertion. in pc absolutely LOL but outside... the gal assault will go positive as long as that heavy is logi less. Zatara does know pc very well and in the city yes your assault suit will go negative.
And this is pretty silly.
Heavies have always held the points and ran defense on points since the beginning of PC. they where built to fulfill that role.
If your going to try and push a point as a logi... versus a well defended point that has assigned players and tactics around it? Yah ofcourse your gonna get negative results. You know this as well as anyone these days in the PC game.
Assault suits will again ofcourse struggle to stand toe to toe with heavy frame suits wil trying to make ground towards a point, But that has never been the dynamics of a PC match... Sure it's a peice of it but a rather small piece.
We have largely established pushes through Scouts. Even in the Hayday's of Logi slayers ruling DUST, The Heavy still held the point in PC. Even in the height of Assaults from the launch of Uprising... Heavies still held the point. EVEN when heavies where nerfed into the ground... Heavies still held the point.
By Nerfing the HMG your trying to change what exactly? If the HMG was out performing In Medium range engagements versus a Rifle? Sure nerf that. If the Burst HMG is out performing the shotgun as quick burst kills? Sure nerf that.
But Nerfing the HMG because it performs to well at it's intended role is again the one of the STUPIDEST reasons to nerf anything in this game.... Infact it should be encouraged. |
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
587
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 14:16:00 -
[91] - Quote
Bethhy wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote:it's really ridiculous. heavies are such easy, slow targets that people should be ashamed of themselves for thinking they're OP now that the burst problem is gone.
just get a ******* breach AR and mow them down LMAO...50 mill says you come use an assault or logi suit and you'll go negative. I'll pull 15 FA in and you vs KEQ and watch you get spammed until you ragequit and only pride prevents you from recanting this asburd assertion. in pc absolutely LOL but outside... the gal assault will go positive as long as that heavy is logi less. Zatara does know pc very well and in the city yes your assault suit will go negative. And this is pretty silly. Heavies have always held the points and ran defense on points since the beginning of PC. they where built to fulfill that role. If your going to try and push a point as a logi... versus a well defended point that has assigned players and tactics around it? Yah ofcourse your gonna get negative results. You know this as well as anyone these days in the PC game. Assault suits will again ofcourse struggle to stand toe to toe with heavy frame suits while trying to make ground towards an enclosed point, But that has always been the dynamics of a PC match... And part of the tactics to Whom you send to assault points and HOW you build your PC team. We have largely established the pushes through Scouts. Even in the Hayday's of Logi slayers ruling DUST, The Heavy still held the point in PC. Even in the height of Assaults from the launch of Uprising... Heavies still held the point. EVEN when heavies where nerfed into the ground... Heavies still held the point. By Nerfing the HMG your trying to change what exactly? If the HMG was out performing In Medium range engagements versus a Rifle? Sure nerf that. If the Burst HMG is out performing the shotgun as quick burst kills? Sure nerf that. But Nerfing the HMG because it performs to well at it's intended role is again the one of the STUPIDEST reasons to nerf anything in this game....
I love you.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
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Grease Spillett
Bloodline Rebellion
Capital Punishment.
588
|
Posted - 2014.11.18 14:21:00 -
[92] - Quote
Breakin Stuff wrote:Up until 1.8, well after the enclosure meta the rule of the day was assault/logi.
Sentinels were rare.
It was the simultaneous nerfing of rifles and assigning resistance to sentinels that caused the meta to change.
Snipers were merely annoying because they thought they were more important than they actually were.
So no.
Snipers being removed from the objectives didn't cause sentinel spam. Considering the fact that sentinels could soak sniper fire like champs before recent changes if snipers were that big of a problem rather than a nonstop irritation everyone would have run sentinels before then.
Don't assign importance where there is none.
I stand corrected sniping is as ever useless and unimportant! It was something I used to do however and it slows that ninja hack down or negates it on outside points. It was important in that sense. But that's it. being ineffective at a role is no fun and that's why I brought it up.
Next time you see me, bring more friends.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gBM5hM5LdDw
|
GLOBAL fils'de RAGE
Consolidated Dust
47
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 16:32:00 -
[93] - Quote
Leadfoot10 wrote:Zatara Rought wrote:The point is this.
You can talk all about how HMG should be the best weapon in CQC.
If you give a suit 1.5-2x the ehp of the next highest EHP suit...and then also give him a weapon that does the best CQC damage by a not insignificant amount...
and make MOST Skirmish maps have objectives that require CQC fighting (name a skirm map that doesn't have > 40% of objectives in a CQC enclosed space...and have uplinks that can be spammed near said objective that mitigates the heavies slow speed by putting them RIGHT on the objective (let alone the fact you can SPAWN on objectives -_-)
To say nothing of the passive scans negating first shot opportunities for any other class except the scout...
yeah..you're gonna have the PC population realize it's best to just spam the **** out of heavies. They become the best at assaulting points AND defending points from a blob assault (scouts do better if you're leaving just one or 2 people on point defense until the enemy commits to zerging the point with 4+) when you're facing a blob...scouts have to count on RE's because they aren't going to last if the blob has anywhere near decent awareness/communication.
Doesn't help also that assaults and logi's suck compared to heavies at killing shotty/re cloaky scouts....the other most broken **** in PC. ^^^ gets the problem. What's the solution? Make Heavies easier to remove from their enclosed areas? But how? IMO, it is somehow making the Assault class a more viable counter. The answer is not in Scouts, which have an imbalance of their own.
solution:nerf the rail rifle more? |
Himiko Kuronaga
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
4997
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 16:33:00 -
[94] - Quote
Thumb Green wrote:Like a lot of QQ on the forum it boils down to "it's not my preferred weapon / playstyle and I'm too lazy to properly counter it".
You are officially the second smartest person on the forum now.
Congratulations.
It's my fault FA exists. Direct your rage to me.
|
Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1800
|
Posted - 2014.11.19 16:46:00 -
[95] - Quote
Himiko Kuronaga wrote:Thumb Green wrote:Like a lot of QQ on the forum it boils down to "it's not my preferred weapon / playstyle and I'm too lazy to properly counter it". You are officially the second smartest person on the forum now. Congratulations.
I have my moments but that's still like being the 2nd smartest kid in special ed (most of us say some pretty fcking stupid sh!t from time to time; lord knows I've said more than my fair share of asinine bs). I should be insulted.... but I'm not.
Kills:21, Deaths:5, KDR: time for a smoke.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
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maluble
Art.of.Death
VP Gaming Alliance
177
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 02:04:00 -
[96] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:Grenades into a breaching motion. If sentinels didn't get an innate resistance to splash damage this might be more viable. Slight nade buff should be ******* high on CCP to do list. They are nowhere near what they should be and I think everyone would agree.
Nope not goin back to the days where people sat on hives spamming core locus. |
maluble
Art.of.Death
VP Gaming Alliance
177
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 02:08:00 -
[97] - Quote
Hmg needs a spool up time and the suit needs a turn speed nerf like it was before. |
VikingKong iBUN
T.H.I.R.D R.O.C.K
230
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 02:36:00 -
[98] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:Jacques Cayton II wrote:I love the hmg but its beimg spammed so it will receive a nerf and thats why if it should receive ome just the heat build up should increase nothing else I have to blame map design for this. If you have a bunch of maps conducive to close quarters then duh your going to have hmg's and shotguns everywhere.
This.
And the fact that HMG damage is also just too high. Often you are dead before you can possibly have time to react, as if it's a high alpha weapon like a shotgun, when it's meant to be a high DPS weapon. |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
420
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 03:07:00 -
[99] - Quote
Heavies were crap for many MANY iterations of Dust. Many 1.x's saw heavies as the least used suit because they died to everything.
Guess what: they still do. Worst strafing and largest hitbox (seriously, you have to be TRYING to miss a heavy's head) You know what the biggest buff heavies ever got was? Dispersion. The HMG used to shoot like a laser rifle. It LOOKED like a cone -- but in fact fired a single line. Which made them even weaker in CQC. And of course with shorter range than anyone they couldn't go out of CQC. So they gave them dispersion. All of a sudden you could hit stuff at 5 meters out with more than 2 bullets per strafe.
So why are heavies so great right now? It isn't the ridiculous DPS numbers people give them. Their theoretical damage and actual damage differ significantly. This is what happens when you take numbers out of context (practical application.) Sometimes a heavy will get lucky and all the bullets will hit target that they are aiming at and yes things will drop at 2x the rate everything else. Sometimes (and so many people refuse to admit or remember this) so many of the bullets will go around the target not due to hit detectoin (a seperate issue) but due to dispersion. However dispersion pretty much averages out these two situations so that they are the exception over the rule.
THEN you add in Logi reps effectively giving a heavy X times hp. Or the fact that they can survive 2 cloaked shotgun scout shots so they have a chance to return fire. And you got heavy spam. You don't see shield heavies raping like you do armor heavies that's for sure. Why is that do you suppose?
Sometimes when I'm on my heavy alt I will HMG someone and they will instant pop. Like WOW instant pop. Never outside of 20 meters but that's another thing.
And Sometimes Ill fire until overheat on a stationary target and not even get down 1/4 of their shields.
All of the above is anecdotal evidence so it is not indesputable data by any means, but it certainly has been following that pattern for a while.
So here you go: When I heavy up and defend a point I will tell you how to kill me without scout shotgun, grenades, or remotes
Example 1: Open point.
Solution: Shoot me from anywhere not close by.
Example 2: Semi open point with reasonable cover for the heavy
Solution: Get two guys to shoot from 2 different directions not close by
Example 3: Closed point - moderate CQC.
Solution: Fire in Waves. Target the logi (if there is one)
Expansive explanation:
-- Heavies have a few flaws. In CQC (especially if backed by a logi) the scanning flaw and the inability to move flaw are mitigated. Range is a non--issue. However, heavies have an overheat mechanic and a very long reload (even with the reload speed.) Quite simply, make them shoot. Poke around the corner, take a couple of shots, and pull back. Rinse repeat. If you have a buddy helping it'll go even faster. Even if the heavy is judicious about fire you will be able to force an overheat or a reload. That is, in fact, one thing that kills me often that I never complain about. If I'm in a location and 3 assaults hit me, I won't kill even 1 usually. They will burn me down, or barring that, dodge enough that I overheat or go out of ammo. If I rush you pull back (you move faster than me) and fire again. If I have a logi (I never do, but if the heavy does) shoot HIM first.
Example 4: Heavily Entrenched point. Multiple Heavies. Multiple logis. Nothing but CQC if you enter.
Solution: Artillery. Mass Drivers are great and forcing me to move or killing my logi friends. Plasma Cannon similarly does high damage if you miss (it's CQC so you WILL get a high percentage of splash damage shots) and is a full on instant pop if you land it (which is actually pretty easy in CQC, heavy has no where to go to avoid.) plus no rezz.
Appendium: i think heavies should have a spawn timer penalty. Being able to spawn in 3 sec as a heavy is ridiculous. Their lack of mobility should be more of a penalty than it is :/
Understand though -- with the Slot buff on assaults you can brick tank an assault for more HP than a commando. Even if heavies become unicorns in their non usage (ignoring the fact that it is the benefits of armor in combo with logi that is a large underlooked part of the problem -- shield heavies are good but don't perform as well as armor heavies) you will still have the same problem you do now. Assaults with ridiculous HP and pretty much no movement due to plate penalty, whatever CQC rifle does the most damage at the time, and a logi at their back.
Then people will complain about it and said armor assaults (amarr and to a lesser extent gallente) will be the target of the next round of bandwagon nerfing. |
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