Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
399
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Posted - 2014.11.17 02:51:00 -
[1] - Quote
Grease Spillett wrote:I really don't get it?? I run hmg from time to time it does just like I would expect a massive close quarters machine gun would. If you are assault stay outside?? If you are a scout shotgun the guy he cant see you when you're dampened. I don't understand people at all. I guess we really won't ever get to a set game. CCP are you really always going to nerf/buff?
I honestly don't know. It doesn't feel like it performs any better recently than it has for the last few months. It feels like there are just more heavies not because of the HMG, but because it can withstand an extra shotgun blast to the back and give it a half sec more time to react and shoot back. HMG is just incidental.. maybe?
Ripley Riley wrote:Grease Spillett wrote:If you are assault stay outside? A big problem with this "advice" from HMG sentinels is that a lot of skirm and dom objectives are located inside. So basically, you are saying "Assaults, don't push the objective." Which is kind of bullshit, don't you think?
I agree with this though. I mean, sure heavies should have the advantage in CQC, but Assaults should DEFINITELY be viable... |
Imp Smash
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
420
|
Posted - 2014.11.21 03:07:00 -
[2] - Quote
Heavies were crap for many MANY iterations of Dust. Many 1.x's saw heavies as the least used suit because they died to everything.
Guess what: they still do. Worst strafing and largest hitbox (seriously, you have to be TRYING to miss a heavy's head) You know what the biggest buff heavies ever got was? Dispersion. The HMG used to shoot like a laser rifle. It LOOKED like a cone -- but in fact fired a single line. Which made them even weaker in CQC. And of course with shorter range than anyone they couldn't go out of CQC. So they gave them dispersion. All of a sudden you could hit stuff at 5 meters out with more than 2 bullets per strafe.
So why are heavies so great right now? It isn't the ridiculous DPS numbers people give them. Their theoretical damage and actual damage differ significantly. This is what happens when you take numbers out of context (practical application.) Sometimes a heavy will get lucky and all the bullets will hit target that they are aiming at and yes things will drop at 2x the rate everything else. Sometimes (and so many people refuse to admit or remember this) so many of the bullets will go around the target not due to hit detectoin (a seperate issue) but due to dispersion. However dispersion pretty much averages out these two situations so that they are the exception over the rule.
THEN you add in Logi reps effectively giving a heavy X times hp. Or the fact that they can survive 2 cloaked shotgun scout shots so they have a chance to return fire. And you got heavy spam. You don't see shield heavies raping like you do armor heavies that's for sure. Why is that do you suppose?
Sometimes when I'm on my heavy alt I will HMG someone and they will instant pop. Like WOW instant pop. Never outside of 20 meters but that's another thing.
And Sometimes Ill fire until overheat on a stationary target and not even get down 1/4 of their shields.
All of the above is anecdotal evidence so it is not indesputable data by any means, but it certainly has been following that pattern for a while.
So here you go: When I heavy up and defend a point I will tell you how to kill me without scout shotgun, grenades, or remotes
Example 1: Open point.
Solution: Shoot me from anywhere not close by.
Example 2: Semi open point with reasonable cover for the heavy
Solution: Get two guys to shoot from 2 different directions not close by
Example 3: Closed point - moderate CQC.
Solution: Fire in Waves. Target the logi (if there is one)
Expansive explanation:
-- Heavies have a few flaws. In CQC (especially if backed by a logi) the scanning flaw and the inability to move flaw are mitigated. Range is a non--issue. However, heavies have an overheat mechanic and a very long reload (even with the reload speed.) Quite simply, make them shoot. Poke around the corner, take a couple of shots, and pull back. Rinse repeat. If you have a buddy helping it'll go even faster. Even if the heavy is judicious about fire you will be able to force an overheat or a reload. That is, in fact, one thing that kills me often that I never complain about. If I'm in a location and 3 assaults hit me, I won't kill even 1 usually. They will burn me down, or barring that, dodge enough that I overheat or go out of ammo. If I rush you pull back (you move faster than me) and fire again. If I have a logi (I never do, but if the heavy does) shoot HIM first.
Example 4: Heavily Entrenched point. Multiple Heavies. Multiple logis. Nothing but CQC if you enter.
Solution: Artillery. Mass Drivers are great and forcing me to move or killing my logi friends. Plasma Cannon similarly does high damage if you miss (it's CQC so you WILL get a high percentage of splash damage shots) and is a full on instant pop if you land it (which is actually pretty easy in CQC, heavy has no where to go to avoid.) plus no rezz.
Appendium: i think heavies should have a spawn timer penalty. Being able to spawn in 3 sec as a heavy is ridiculous. Their lack of mobility should be more of a penalty than it is :/
Understand though -- with the Slot buff on assaults you can brick tank an assault for more HP than a commando. Even if heavies become unicorns in their non usage (ignoring the fact that it is the benefits of armor in combo with logi that is a large underlooked part of the problem -- shield heavies are good but don't perform as well as armor heavies) you will still have the same problem you do now. Assaults with ridiculous HP and pretty much no movement due to plate penalty, whatever CQC rifle does the most damage at the time, and a logi at their back.
Then people will complain about it and said armor assaults (amarr and to a lesser extent gallente) will be the target of the next round of bandwagon nerfing. |