Yea, I understand that this and IGÇÖm probably going to have to settle for the childish explanation that is a video-game. I thought we were trying to aspire for a bit more in the Dust universe, but that explanation is the perfect cop-out for CCP since they are prone to folding under the pressure of whiney forum users complaining about snipers GÇ£ruiningGÇ¥ the game for them [ which I acknowledge that I am doing now], but IGÇÖm making this an issue in the hopes that they reverse their HUGE nerf of the effective sniper scope kill ranges GÇô because honestly GÇô it wasnGÇÖt broken before.


This thread has spiraled into people whining about how good Snipers have had it.. people whoGÇÖve invested time in fitting a skill because they like to play a game a certain type of way and appreciate the calm art of it. I recently fitted my Thale again and I was only able to register at 450.. which makes no sense. And When I say register, I mean that if I canGÇÖt see the players name GÇô I assume that they are GÇ£out of rangeGÇ¥ which is ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. Congrats CCP - more steps in the wrong drection.

Yea, I understand that this and IGÇÖm probably going to have to settle for the childish explanation that is a video-game. I thought we were trying to aspire for a bit more in the Dust universe, but that explanation is the perfect cop-out for CCP since they are prone to folding under the pressure of whiney forum users complaining about snipers GÇ£ruiningGÇ¥ the game for them [ which I acknowledge that I am doing now], but IGÇÖm making this an issue in the hopes that they reverse their HUGE nerf of the effective sniper scope kill ranges GÇô because honestly GÇô it wasnGÇÖt broken before.



IGÇÖm not going to get into a pee-pee measuring contest with you, but IGÇÖve fired a wide range of weapons and IGÇÖm VERY familiar with sniper rifle behavior.



The range is the primary issue here GÇô you canGÇÖt side-step it. Modern rifles have an effective kill range of 800+m.. Dust takes place roughly 20,000 years IN THE FUTURE!?!!1!1!ONE

There are very few items in dust that require the user to suspend belief GÇô which I like. I personally donGÇÖt have an issue with the stamina physics, because it seems realistic given the universe (this could and should be its own topic), because again GÇô we justify shields, we justify ranges GÇô justifying stamina in a suit 20k in the future doesnGÇÖt seem odd when Michael Phelps is wearing a loosely similar type of suit in the Olympics GÇô enhancing his performance. Not too far-fetched to believe that the tech would improve 1000X in the future especially if you take into account the planet, its gravity, and atmosphere. A force field, and inertia dampeners (which are probably related tech) GÇô is not silly at all btw.



Again, this is probably where we are with things, and why dust has seen a huge amount of players leave. Catering to the crying masses, b/c snipers are good at their jobs.

This thread has spiraled into people whining about how good Snipers have had it.. people whoGÇÖve invested time in fitting a skill because they like to play a game a certain type of way and appreciate the calm art of it. I recently fitted my Thale again and I was only able to register at 450.. which makes no sense. And When I say register, I mean that if I canGÇÖt see the players name GÇô I assume that they are GÇ£out of rangeGÇ¥ which is ridiculous. Utterly ridiculous. Congrats CCP - more steps in the wrong drection.

If we are going to talk about 20,000 years in the future, that rail rifle they are shooting with a 100 meter range should act like an uber AK-47 and have 1000 Meter range. The Combat Rifle should act like an AR-15 and have2000 Meter range. The forge gun should be able to shoot a ball of whatever that is from redline to redline without issue. Mass drivers should work like an M203 on steroids and be shooting 300 rounds a minute with pinpoint accuracy across the map, etc, etc. You can use the same argument for every rifle. So what do we do?.

You are correct on the Thales that the max distance is now 450 Meters. Still the longest distance of any weapon in the game, including other sniper rifles. So why the complaint? Oh, right, you can't be untouchable now.

Instead of ******* bitching and moaning about "child's play explanation" and whining simply because you want EZ-mode, I have a RADICAL suggestion for you: adapt. [GǪ] You are the type of person who is giving ALL snipers a bad name and the reason why so many people HAVE come on here and complained to no end.

I'm a Sniper and you are all sorts of pissing me off. I can't imagine what the non-snipers think about you.

As far as responses go -- I'm a bit unimpressed. I think you are saying that because we can shoot far now in real life we should shoot far in a game? Despite different physics existing in game?

-=[blah blah blah] - not really blah blah, just flavor text used to make a point.=-

It's all about relative ranges. Yes 450 meters is not far. At the same time -- its 4x farther than a rifle. So, yay? The shorter ranges force snipers to leave the redline. So, in otherwords, you can't snipe from an invincible location. I still fail to see the problem.

I'm not trying to belittle your opinion or gripe. It's just that I really don't understand your gripe. This is what I remember. Snipers sitting up on a mountain or on the MCC 900 meters away sniping people at virtually no risk to themselves. People complained (as they do) and obviously CCP wasn't happy with the fact that there was a role that allowed people to kill and cost others isk at no risk to themselves. So they changed range so snipers couldn't do that. I still get sniped. The only difference is that now I have the option to go hunt for the sniper whereas before I couldn't really do anything about them.

Nope. Its faggotry of the highest order and must be stahpt!

For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction
http://www.greekairsoft.gr/eshop/img/p/8/0/8/5/8085-thickbox.jpg
Too lazy to click the image, its called a silencer. I'd imagine that these too get more advanced as the technology improves.

Isn't that your shield? It takes energy to stop energy, eventually your on-board energy will deplete.

Also lowest max range is 350 not 300; the weapons with 300 meter ranges are forge guns and railgun tanks. Snipers are alone past the 300 range.

Are you trying to say something? B/c I'm confused by your post.

See above regarding the MCC and hunting people down. THAT is what I consider fun.

I really appreciate you not belittling my POV, because what I am saying is that even the relative ranges to other weapons donGÇÖt make sense, and there was nothing broken about the gameplay. People just didnGÇÖt want to exhaust the grey-matter to hunt a sniper down (like IGÇÖve done SEVERAL times). You could always have done something about it. All the ISK and SP IGÇÖve spent on specing into this fit I feel like IGÇÖve been swindled and honestly wasted a large portion of my time to cater to whiny players who will leave the Dust/Eve universe when the next big FPS comes along. IGÇÖll keep playing Dust because IGÇÖve invested so much time into it GÇô but IGÇÖm probably not going to invest anymore money into the game unless this is fixed.

Pay to respec... then wait for another egregious change.. then pay to respec again... no thank you.

I think youGÇÖre missing the point of what IGÇÖm saying.. These weapons should be realistic relative to each other.. They GÇ£kind ofGÇ¥ are right now only at the most basic level.., but not there is no benefit for me to even snipe seeing as how someone with a rail rifle can close a few meters and out gun me instantly Yea it out ranges other rifles.. but by not by muchGǪ

What I'm saying is that defenses and countermeasures completely outclass offenses in New Eden, which is the opposite of what it is like in the real world.

In the real world, 1-2 bullets will kill or incapacitate, and 1 HEAT missile will destroy a HAV.
Our modern weapons completely outclass out modern defenses. This is why modent combat is more about abpmbush and guerilla tactics than standoffs.

This is reversed in New Eden. Our defenses completely outclass out weapons.

It takes 20-40 bullets to kill, and 1-2 rounds don't even phase us. It takes us dozens of missiles to destroy a HAV or even the equivalent of a HMMWV.

CCP ... Throughout this whole discussion one thing doesn't make sense... If I can see them in my scope well enough to know what race their suit is - why can't I hit them? The hits don't even register - but they did previously.. Why!? WHY WHYY WHY.. maybe just admitting you conceded to the crybabies of Dust would give me some solace..

Snipers have and always will be the most delusional sect in the game. They really think what they do is a skill and sitting 600m away was okay. If 450m and a headshot buff isn't enough for you; then you have less skill than originally assumed.

Snipers need a reality check.

I recently came back to Dust after a long, long break. As a career sniper, I too was dismayed by the range changes. It is easier to get headshots with the new small dot (I don't know when that changed), and the bonus to damage is welcome, but ultimately I feel the same way as the OP. I used to get headshots perfectly well enough before, even on moving targets (I don't consider headshots on stationary players to be remotely bragworthy, at any distance).

To clarify about the notion that all long range snipers (500m+) like to pad their KDR: it's probably true for a lot of snipers, but not entirely for me. I just hate dying. But I don't hate it so much that I tank my suit, or wear anything other than a scout suit; instead I relied on extreme distance, positioning, and criminally insane paranoia to keep myself alive. But anyone with even a basic Tactical sniper rifle could drop me in a second, which I think makes me better than a true KDR padder (AKA, the heavy suit sniper, or long ago, the logisniper).

With all that said, the new range limitations have essentially redrawn the maps in my mind, and destroyed everything I once knew about tactical positioning. I haven't the patience to re-walk every single map according to the new ranges, dying at a rate of five times my previous worst days, as I search for new shaded crevices. I therefore must say that Dust has finally broken my spirit. None will note or regret my passing, since I belonged to possibly the most despised and disdained player category in the history of this game; but I am content that, for a while, I was good at what I did.

And for the record, my main had a KDR that peaked at 51, all while wearing a non-tanked, non-cloaked, pre-buff, Gallente advanced scout suit (would have worn Caldari, but alas this was before they were released). I recorded well over two thousand kills in this suit, most with the advanced rifle, and about a third of my total with the Charge.

I might have prattled on too long, but consider it my obituary. I also wish to salute the few true snipers left in the game.

I like your explanation justifying the adjustment - the only thing is I don't think the drop suits harden I expect that they detect inward give and the tensile strength if the suit would get taut around that area refusing to budge when a bullet tries to abruptly protrude. It would still "hurt" and probably bruise pretty badly, but wouldn't kill you until the tensile strength of the suit gives out due to repeated bombardment or one super powerful shot. If it was based on sound of the shot, your suit would be hardening every second due to nearby fire. Regardless, we can justfiy the tech in our minds however we need to - which is also why I like the game.. but outside of the 400m limitation on your armor's reaction time - hardening would still register the shot on your shield or suit - whether or not it does damage. Right now, in Dust, it does neither. I might as well have kicked rocks at you.

really/ try it and then talk.

oh by the way Iron Wolf Saber using Fork's charge officer weapon it will kill both the caldari & Minnie. the gall will let as live as long has both complex shields if not... it is DEAD. lol the amarr puts on a damage mod instead of the complex shield extender and it BARELY lives with just 28 armor. lol if it takes 32 shield damage before the headshot it then is dead.

Dont look at me I couldn't get that thing nerfed when I tried. It had to be an officer level weapon to begin with anyways so rules were definitely broken.

I recently came back to Dust after a long, long break. As a career sniper, I too was dismayed by the range changes. It is easier to get headshots with the new small dot (I don't know when that changed), and the bonus to damage is welcome, but ultimately I feel the same way as the OP. I used to get headshots perfectly well enough before, even on moving targets (I don't consider headshots on stationary players to be remotely bragworthy, at any distance).

To clarify about the notion that all long range snipers (500m+) like to pad their KDR: it's probably true for a lot of snipers, but not entirely for me. I just hate dying. But I don't hate it so much that I tank my suit, or wear anything other than a scout suit; instead I relied on extreme distance, positioning, and criminally insane paranoia to keep myself alive. But anyone with even a basic Tactical sniper rifle could drop me in a second, which I think makes me better than a true KDR padder (AKA, the heavy suit sniper, or long ago, the logisniper).

With all that said, the new range limitations have essentially redrawn the maps in my mind, and destroyed everything I once knew about tactical positioning. I haven't the patience to re-walk every single map according to the new ranges, dying at a rate of five times my previous worst days, as I search for new shaded crevices. I therefore must say that Dust has finally broken my spirit. None will note or regret my passing, since I belonged to possibly the most despised and disdained player category in the history of this game; but I am content that, for a while, I was good at what I did.

And for the record, my main had a KDR that peaked at 51, all while wearing a non-tanked, non-cloaked, pre-buff, Gallente advanced scout suit (would have worn Caldari, but alas this was before they were released). I recorded well over two thousand kills in this suit, most with the advanced rifle, and about a third of my total with the Charge.

I might have prattled on too long, but consider it my obituary. I also wish to salute the few true snipers left in the game.

No longer than a month... I was hoping this was a bug, and not a planned release..
Whats the range I need to be in now - and its kinda f***'d up that I wasted money on these things now I might as well throw the bullets at people.

aww don't go. you can still snipe I know reworking on the maps is silly but do like some of us and shot a few times and move to a new spot then repeat. the new map is one where you do have to move a lot with the flow of the battle and with the redlines on doms & some skims being changed all snipers are reworking maps.