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Please normalize Logistics slot progression

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Catgirl White Mage Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 0	Posted - 2014.10.11 18:06:00 - [1] - Quote So currently. . Logistics slot layout per tier and per race is as follows. Gallente: Basic - 0 High/2 Low/3 Equ Adv - 2 High/3 Low/3 Equ (Gain 3 Slots 2 High/1 Low) Pro - 3 High/5 Low/4 Equ (Gain 3 Slots 1 High/2 Low) Minmatar: Basic - 2 High/2 Low/3 Equ Adv - 3 High/3 Low/3 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Pro - 4 High/4 Low/4 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Caldari: Basic - 2 High/1 Low/3 Equ Adv - 3 High/2 Low/3 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Pro - 5 High/4 Low/3 Equ (Gain 4 slots 2 High/2 Low) Amarr: Basic - 2 High/2 Low/3 Equ/1 Sidearm Adv - 3 High/3 Low/3 Equ/1 Sidearm (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Pro - 3 High/4 Low/3 Equ/1 Sidearm (Gain 1 slot 0 High/1 Low) There doesn't seem to be a real pattern to the progression between tier and between race. Why is Amarr Logi's layout the best at Adv and arguably at Basic also. Why does Gallente only have 2 slots at Basic? Why does Caldari jump 4 slots from Adv to Pro? I don't know, but I do know that I like how the Assault suit slot progression was changed recently and I feel that Logi layouts could benefit from the same. I'd keep the current Prototype maximums and just have each lower tier be 1 High slot/1 Low slot less. The only problem I see is Caldari Adv would have 4 High/3 Low, and Basic would have 3 High/2 Low, which unless they lose an Equ slot isn't really balanced. Amarr Adv/Basic would lose a slot but the Sidearm slot is more valuable now than it was with the rebalance and general buff. Obviously this benefits me as a Gal Logi player as I rarely tend to use Proto, and would rather use Adv. I'd get an extra Low.
Atiim 12891	Posted - 2014.10.11 18:11:00 - [2] - Quote The Logistics' slot layouts need to match their Assault counterparts. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1910	Posted - 2014.10.11 21:09:00 - [3] - Quote Atiim wrote: The Logistics' slot layouts need to match their Assault counterparts. Only if my Caldari Logi gets another equipment sot and a CPU buff. Currently I have to run a complex CPU to fit everything. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 8	Posted - 2014.10.12 01:45:00 - [4] - Quote Just wanted to point out, as someone who has used the AmLogi a LOT, that the Amarr Logi (and, IIRC, the Caldari as well) only has TWO equipment slots at standard, and not three. But yes, the Logi slot layouts are currently ******** and nonsensical.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1071	Posted - 2014.10.12 01:47:00 - [5] - Quote I like my Am logi the way it is. It makes a perfect canidate for swarming, RRing and other bs weapons lol Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Atiim 12904	Posted - 2014.10.12 02:05:00 - [6] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Atiim wrote: The Logistics' slot layouts need to match their Assault counterparts. Only if my Caldari Logi gets another equipment sot and a CPU buff. Currently I have to run a complex CPU to fit everything. Obviously CPU/PG would need to be adjusted to compensate, and I agree the CalLogi should get a 4th EQ slot since it doesn't have a sidearm. The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1072	Posted - 2014.10.12 02:14:00 - [7] - Quote Atiim wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Atiim wrote: The Logistics' slot layouts need to match their Assault counterparts. Only if my Caldari Logi gets another equipment sot and a CPU buff. Currently I have to run a complex CPU to fit everything. Obviously CPU/PG would need to be adjusted to compensate, and I agree the CalLogi should get a 4th EQ slot since it doesn't have a sidearm. ^ It would be useful to get that extra hive like a wirikomi triage or ishy gauged Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Catgirl White Mage Nekomimi Paradise 0	Posted - 2014.10.12 05:12:00 - [8] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Just wanted to point out, as someone who has used the AmLogi a LOT, that the Amarr Logi (and, IIRC, the Caldari as well) only has TWO equipment slots at standard, and not three. Uh, thanks for pointing that out. It had been awhile since I checked either one. It really should be 3 EQ though. I have a hard enough time being semi-satisfied with that many, 5 EQ plz. Thanks for the responses. Hopefully they'll do something with it, maybe give us a small move speed boost too.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 374	Posted - 2014.10.12 07:41:00 - [9] - Quote I'm okay with the slots as they are, Caldari does look like it needs an equipment but there may be some other stat it has that its paying for that with. The Amarr is like that, it's short an equipment and a mod to pay for the sidearm (also slow a **** too). Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 374	Posted - 2014.10.12 07:44:00 - [10] - Quote And why not bring this to the CPM Input Support thread? We've been discussing support roles and logi tweaks for over a month now. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.10.12 21:10:00 - [11] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: I'm okay with the slots as they are, Caldari does look like it needs an equipment but there may be some other stat it has that its paying for that with. The Amarr is like that, it's short an equipment and a mod to pay for the sidearm (also slow a **** too). The slots as they are are bloody terrible. The AmLogi is passable at standard, except it's still outclassed by really any scout suit at equal tier, and CalLogi is straight up a downgrade compared to a scout suit for beginner/newbro logis- fewer slots and no sidearm all for a second equipment slot?! That's a terrible tradeoff symptomatic of an equally terrible slot layout scheme. At advanced level, the AmLogi and MinLogi are both pretty reasonable (but I'd rather have a 2/4 med/low rather than 3/3 as an AmLogi), but then at proto CalLogi gets mad slot count, GalLogi and MinLogi get 4 (FOUR!) equipment slots, and Amarr Logi gets the short end of the stick. At the very least, slot layout for the Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar logi suits needs to be normalized with their assault brothers- MinLogi is actually the only one that does this AFAIK, since MinSalt is 2/2, 3/3, and 4/4 med/low, with light+sidearm+grenade and 1 equip. It also indicates that losing a sidearm and some base stats (mostly HP) is evidently worth gaining 2-3 equipment slots. IMO, the non-Amarr Logis should actually be changed to have 4 equipment slots at all levels. As an Amarr Logi (mostly part time), I also feel that gaining a sidearm is worth losing either a module slot, OR an equipment slot, compared to the AmSalt and the other logi suits- but it definitely isn't worth both. The current DDM event makes a scout suit a better choice for dual militia Magsec SMGs, which are terrible anyways. Hopefully I'll be the only one really using them though....
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 764	Posted - 2014.10.13 04:04:00 - [12] - Quote Because Amarr Proto is garbage compared to proto every other Logi.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 8585	Posted - 2014.10.13 11:38:00 - [13] - Quote We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Blueprint For Murder Immortal Guides 111	Posted - 2014.10.13 11:41:00 - [14] - Quote It seems like a waste of resources to me. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
The Master Race Immortal Guides 111	Posted - 2014.10.13 11:41:00 - [15] - Quote It seems like a waste of resources to me. New, delicious, Soylent green the miracle food of high-energy plankton gathered from the oceans of the world.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4184	Posted - 2014.10.13 11:49:00 - [16] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o To be fair, it was more the loss of the Amarr sidearm that riled up we unwashed masses. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 3631	Posted - 2014.10.13 12:02:00 - [17] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o To be fair, it was more the loss of the Amarr sidearm that riled up we unwashed masses. The Amarr logi needs to lose the sidearm. Either all logis get a sidearm (which could lead us back to the slayer logi days, so, no) or none of them do. My advice to you, playa...
Nocturnal Soul Primordial Threat 4147	Posted - 2014.10.13 13:56:00 - [18] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o To be fair, it was more the loss of the Amarr sidearm that riled up we unwashed masses. The Amarr logi needs to lose the sidearm. Either all logis get a sidearm (which could lead us back to the slayer logi days, so, no) or none of them do. Nope, the Amarr logi is like Tigger there can only be one. (Gê¬n+Ç-´)GèâGöüGÿån+ƒ.pâ+n+ín+ƒ. LASERS BTCH!!!!!!
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.10.13 14:02:00 - [19] - Quote I agree with John and Nocturnal Soul- the AmLogi MUST retain its sidearm. IMHO, this is worth either losing a module slot (compared to the Amarr assault suit) or losing an equipment slot (compared to the other logis, which IMO, should be 4 equip across all levels), but not both. Removing the AmLogi's sidearm will anger a lot of players- me included. And it really comes down to the fact that the AmLogi is supposed to be defined by having a sidearm, and it's why a lot of players (again, myself included) chose the Amarr Logi over other options.
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11536	Posted - 2014.10.13 16:35:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o Please do it. The only exception should be when a suit trades a module slot to gain a sidearm. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

The-Errorist SVER True Blood 827	Posted - 2014.10.13 17:02:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o It wasn't mostly everyone and and as John Demonsbane said, it was removing the Amarr logi sidearm was what people went ballistic on. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1920	Posted - 2014.10.13 17:17:00 - [22] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o To be fair, it was more the loss of the Amarr sidearm that riled up we unwashed masses. The Amarr logi needs to lose the sidearm. Either all logis get a sidearm (which could lead us back to the slayer logi days, so, no) or none of them do. Amarr logi gets its sidearm, at the cost of an equipment slot. The outlier is Caldari, who need another equipment slot and pg/CPU to fit it. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Magnus Amadeuss Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1154	Posted - 2014.10.13 17:42:00 - [23] - Quote Catgirl White Mage wrote: So currently. . Logistics slot layout per tier and per race is as follows. Gallente: Basic - 0 High/2 Low/3 Equ Adv - 2 High/3 Low/3 Equ (Gain 3 Slots 2 High/1 Low) Pro - 3 High/5 Low/4 Equ (Gain 3 Slots 1 High/2 Low) Minmatar: Basic - 2 High/2 Low/3 Equ Adv - 3 High/3 Low/3 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Pro - 4 High/4 Low/4 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Caldari: Basic - 2 High/1 Low/2 Equ (Editted, Error on my part) Adv - 3 High/2 Low/3 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Pro - 5 High/4 Low/3 Equ (Gain 4 slots 2 High/2 Low) Amarr: Basic - 2 High/2 Low/2 Equ/1 Sidearm (Editted, Error on my part) Adv - 3 High/3 Low/3 Equ/1 Sidearm (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Pro - 3 High/4 Low/3 Equ/1 Sidearm (Gain 1 slot 0 High/1 Low) There doesn't seem to be a real pattern to the progression between tier and between race. Why is Amarr Logi's layout the best at Adv and arguably at Basic also. Why does Gallente only have 2 slots at Basic? Why does Caldari jump 4 slots from Adv to Pro? I don't know, but I do know that I like how the Assault suit slot progression was changed recently and I feel that Logi layouts could benefit from the same. I'd keep the current Prototype maximums and just have each lower tier be 1 High slot/1 Low slot less. The only problem I see is Caldari Adv would have 4 High/3 Low, and Basic would have 3 High/2 Low, which unless they lose an Equ slot isn't really balanced. Amarr Adv/Basic would lose a slot but the Sidearm slot is more valuable now than it was with the rebalance and general buff. Obviously this benefits me as a Gal Logi player as I rarely tend to use Proto, and would rather use Adv. I'd get an extra Low. C'mon, the amarr logi at basic is worse in just about every single way compared to the amarr scout. Fixing EWAR
Fizzer XCIV Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 494	Posted - 2014.10.13 20:58:00 - [24] - Quote How it aught to be, yo. Amarr - Trades an equipment for a sidearm. Basic:1H/4L/2E/1LW/1SW/1G/ Adv: 2H/4L/3E/1LW/1SW/1G/ Pro: 2H/5L/3E/1LW/1SW/1G/365CPU/75PG Caldari Basic:4H/1L/3E/1LW/1G/ Adv: 4H/2L/4E/1LW/1G/ Pro: 5H/2L/4E/1LW/1G/405PG/65PG Gallente Basic:2H/3L/3E/1LW/1G/ Adv: 3H/3L/4E/1LW/1G/ Pro: 3H/4L/4E/1LW/1G/377CPU/72PG Minmatar Basic:4H/1L/3E/1LW/1G/ Adv: 4H/2L/4E/1LW/1G/ Pro: 5H/2L/4E/1LW/1G/393CPU/68PG
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 17213	Posted - 2014.10.13 22:40:00 - [25] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: I agree with John and Nocturnal Soul- the AmLogi MUST retain its sidearm. IMHO, this is worth either losing a module slot (compared to the Amarr assault suit) or losing an equipment slot (compared to the other logis, which IMO, should be 4 equip across all levels), but not both. Removing the AmLogi's sidearm will anger a lot of players- me included. And it really comes down to the fact that the AmLogi is supposed to be defined by having a sidearm, and it's why a lot of players (again, myself included) chose the Amarr Logi over other options. Shouldn't be the amarrian logi appeal should be it is the best buffer armor supporter for his brethren? Making the armies of amarr unstoppable with resupplying their energy, reducing their heat, keeping that mountainous amounts of armor repaired? "Well I got a sidearm!" Sounds like something a filthy minmatar would resort too. As it stands Amarr Scout >>>>>>>>> Amarr Logi in just about every single situation. CPM 1 Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior \\= Prototype Assault Rifles =// Unlocked
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 10	Posted - 2014.10.13 23:18:00 - [26] - Quote The suit description- which is something I'd wager a million ISK that new players actually do read- explicitly notes the AmLogi as being better at direct combat than the other logi suits. The way that this plays out in-game is that it receives a sidearm, thus keeping it from being completely helpless- either at close range or entirely so- when using certain primary weapons cough laser rifle, swarms cough. Moreover, the Amarr logi suit having a sidearm slot also makes it- at least IMO- ideal for players who find repping to be insufferably boring, uninteresting, and generally uncompelling gameplay. The fact that I can be busy providing uplinks, nanos, scans, and maybe even revives, while at the same exact time occupying myself with the part of the game that involves shooting other players in the face, is incredibly attractive. Yes, you can in fact do that in any logi suit. However, the Amarr Logi having a sidearm slot brings a lot of interesting combinations and increases the attractiveness of certain weapons for logi suit users. The biggest and most obvious one is the swarms+sidearm combination, seasoned to taste with proxy/remote explosives, nanos, a scanner, or anything else you could possibly desire for equipment. Moreover, your mentioning of "energy resupply", "heat reduction", and narrows eyes repping makes me wonder just how much you remember about current mechanics. Because there is no energy resupply, heat reduction is suit-specific bonus, and it's actually the dirty Minmatar logi that has the rep tool bonus. The Amarr Logi bonus is to drop uplinks. As such, it really is more beneficial for it to have a sidearm, since it improves a player's ability to defend a position- by both safely deploying links and then preventing them from being camped (because being on the receiving end of that sucks). I do agree that the Amja is far superior to the AmLogi right now- at least for the STD level suits- but, based on reading the Logi thread that Cross started (42 pages is a LOT to read through... good thing I had a lot of free time that day) it's actually a complicated affair with no singular cause, and lots of different ideas and options on what should, and what will probably be, done.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1084	Posted - 2014.10.14 00:34:00 - [27] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o To be fair, it was more the loss of the Amarr sidearm that riled up we unwashed masses. The Amarr logi needs to lose the sidearm. Either all logis get a sidearm (which could lead us back to the slayer logi days, so, no) or none of them do. lol no Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :) Pls fix SCR CCP
Boot Booter Pure Evil. Capital Punishment. 937	Posted - 2014.10.14 03:22:00 - [28] - Quote Fizzer XCIV wrote: How it aught to be, yo. Amarr - Trades an equipment for a sidearm. Basic:1H/4L/2E/1LW/1SW/1G/ Adv: 2H/4L/3E/1LW/1SW/1G/ Pro: 2H/5L/3E/1LW/1SW/1G/365CPU/75PG Caldari Basic:4H/1L/3E/1LW/1G/ Adv: 4H/2L/4E/1LW/1G/ Pro: 5H/2L/4E/1LW/1G/405PG/65PG Gallente Basic:2H/3L/3E/1LW/1G/ Adv: 3H/3L/4E/1LW/1G/ Pro: 3H/4L/4E/1LW/1G/377CPU/72PG Minmatar Basic:4H/1L/3E/1LW/1G/ Adv: 4H/2L/4E/1LW/1G/ Pro: 5H/2L/4E/1LW/1G/393CPU/68PG Amarr - Trades an equipment for a sidearm. Basic:1H/3L/3E/1LW/1SW/1G/ Adv: 2H/4L/3E/1LW/1SW/1G/ Pro: 3H/5L/3E/1LW/1SW/1G/365CPU/75PG Caldari Basic:3H/1L/4E/1LW/1G/ Adv: 4H/2L/4E/1LW/1G/ Pro: 5H/3L/4E/1LW/1G/405PG/65PG Gallente Basic:1H/3L/4E/1LW/1G/ Adv: 2H/4L/4E/1LW/1G/ Pro: 3H/5L/4E/1LW/1G/377CPU/72PG Minmatar Basic:2H/2L/4E/1LW/1G/ Adv: 3H/3L/4E/1LW/1G/ Pro: 4H/4L/4E/1LW/1G/393CPU/68PG[/quote] I think this is better.. Not sure about capacity thpugh What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Justin Tymes Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 764	Posted - 2014.10.14 05:48:00 - [29] - Quote The Amarr Logi isn't that good with a sidearm anyway. The lack of PG, combined with the fairly expensive Uplink PG cost and mediocre bulk makes the suit broken. You can't have decent bulk, good EQ, and good weaponry, only 2 out of 3 or at worst 1 out of 3. ANd at that point you might as well be using a scout or another Logi suit. I don't see why people scream about a Amarr Logi having a sidearm. If it's using a powerful one, it's either being a bad Logi or a bad Assault.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4186	Posted - 2014.10.14 11:54:00 - [30] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o To be fair, it was more the loss of the Amarr sidearm that riled up we unwashed masses. The Amarr logi needs to lose the sidearm. Either all logis get a sidearm (which could lead us back to the slayer logi days, so, no) or none of them do. Yeah... No. Fun fact, the Amarr logi was never the "slayer Logi" suit of choice. It also currently gives up a low AND an eq slot for the sidearm. That's a pretty steep price. (The godfather of tactical logistics)

Catgirl White Mage Nekomimi Paradise 5	Posted - 2014.10.14 12:20:00 - [31] - Quote I don't think the racial character of the Caldari or Amarr Logi should be changed. Even if it can be argued that it wasn't a good idea to do it that way at the start, its basically grandfathered in at this point. That's not the point of this thread though. It is strictly that the slot layout needs to be corrected on a per tier/per race basis, similar to, but perhaps not identical to, the recent Assault slot changes. A movement speed boost would also be nice. It feels wierd that 'lighter' of the two Medium suits is slower than the 'heavier' one but shrugs.
DJINN Jecture BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 169	Posted - 2014.10.14 13:34:00 - [32] - Quote So....uhm if logi suits are being changed tongue in cheek can I have my hacking bonus back on my dirty minmatar logi suit? No really don't change the logi suits, and don't throw spread charts at me. The rebalance was fine when it was done. To the player who suggested this "fix": if you want to play Logi you have plenty of ways to check the slot layout before going there please do so, its alot of SP. Otherwise please let the devs get back to the important things, logis are fine. How long til this hits PC?
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3241	Posted - 2014.10.14 19:33:00 - [33] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o To be fair, it was more the loss of the Amarr sidearm that riled up we unwashed masses. The Amarr logi needs to lose the sidearm. Either all logis get a sidearm (which could lead us back to the slayer logi days, so, no) or none of them do. I'd like to see the conceptual justification for this Ripley. I usually feel like even when we don't 100% agree I can readily understand your reasoning. However in this case I find myself not seeing the support for either statement made. I neither think that inclusion of a sidearm would make 'slayer logi' return (not that I favor it as an option) nor that if one logi race has something all the others should have it as well (be it a sidearm slot or something else). Care to elaborate as to why you hold these to be true? @OP - Some form of better scaling for slot progression within the logistics line of each race is likely called for. I am more supportive of your proposal than many I have seen since it does not seek to alter the current base balance or proto level layout of suit, simply streamline the progression from STD to PRO. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3241	Posted - 2014.10.14 19:37:00 - [34] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: I agree with John and Nocturnal Soul- the AmLogi MUST retain its sidearm. IMHO, this is worth either losing a module slot (compared to the Amarr assault suit) or losing an equipment slot (compared to the other logis, which IMO, should be 4 equip across all levels), but not both. Removing the AmLogi's sidearm will anger a lot of players- me included. And it really comes down to the fact that the AmLogi is supposed to be defined by having a sidearm, and it's why a lot of players (again, myself included) chose the Amarr Logi over other options. Shouldn't be the amarrian logi appeal should be it is the best buffer armor supporter for his brethren? Making the armies of amarr unstoppable with resupplying their energy, reducing their heat, keeping that mountainous amounts of armor repaired? "Well I got a sidearm!" Sounds like something a filthy minmatar would resort too. As it stands Amarr Scout >>>>>>>>> Amarr Logi in just about every single situation. I would go so far as to say that as it stands pretty much ANY Scout >> Amarr or any logi for deploying uplinks. Mobility currently trumps even the Amarr Logi bonus to uplinks (which should not be a real surprise considering how rarely a proto, or even advanced, uplink benefits from more than 50% of the bonus). See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 3631	Posted - 2014.10.14 20:41:00 - [35] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I would go so far as to say that as it stands pretty much ANY Scout >> Amarr or any logi for deploying uplinks. Mobility currently trumps even the Amarr Logi bonus to uplinks (which should not be a real surprise considering how rarely a proto, or even advanced, uplink benefits from more than 50% of the bonus). I would say that's because there's a variable timer based on how long you survived when you last spawned. If you spawn in and are immediately murdered the timer is like 3 seconds, which I believe is the minimum. remove variable timers, make CRU 10 sec. start mlt/STD at 15 seconds and adjust from there.
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 385	Posted - 2014.10.14 23:24:00 - [36] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: I'm okay with the slots as they are, Caldari does look like it needs an equipment but there may be some other stat it has that its paying for that with. The Amarr is like that, it's short an equipment and a mod to pay for the sidearm (also slow a **** too). The slots as they are are bloody terrible. The AmLogi is passable at standard, except it's still outclassed by really any scout suit at equal tier, and CalLogi is straight up a downgrade compared to a scout suit for beginner/newbro logis- fewer slots and no sidearm all for a second equipment slot?! That's a terrible tradeoff symptomatic of an equally terrible slot layout scheme. At advanced level, the AmLogi and MinLogi are both pretty reasonable (but I'd rather have a 2/4 med/low rather than 3/3 as an AmLogi), but then at proto CalLogi gets mad slot count, GalLogi and MinLogi get 4 (FOUR!) equipment slots, and Amarr Logi gets the short end of the stick. At the very least, slot layout for the Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar logi suits needs to be normalized with their assault brothers- MinLogi is actually the only one that does this AFAIK, since MinSalt is 2/2, 3/3, and 4/4 med/low, with light+sidearm+grenade and 1 equip. It also indicates that losing a sidearm and some base stats (mostly HP) is evidently worth gaining 2-3 equipment slots. IMO, the non-Amarr Logis should actually be changed to have 4 equipment slots at all levels. As an Amarr Logi (mostly part time), I also feel that gaining a sidearm is worth losing either a module slot, OR an equipment slot, compared to the AmSalt and the other logi suits- but it definitely isn't worth both. The current DDM event makes a scout suit a better choice for dual militia Magsec SMGs, which are terrible anyways. Hopefully I'll be the only one really using them though.... ^ Todays winner of the Best List of Reasons Why scouts Should Get Nerfed on All Stats at All Levels Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 14	Posted - 2014.10.15 00:43:00 - [37] - Quote The point of that post is really to illustrate that the slot progression of the logis is 1. broken, and 2. stupid. Yes, I do note that the STD-level Amarr/Caldari logi suits are flat-out inferior to their scoutly cousins, but the chief reason is because the CalLogi has no sidearm and a terrible slot layout and AmLogi has a passable slot layout but is incredibly slow; both are limited to two equipment slots. It's actually a more compelling reason to buff the Logis rather than nerf scouts. Now let me be clear: I absolutely do think something needs to be done about scouts, but I think that just flat out nerfing them across the board is NOT what should be done. Scouts being broken right now is, IMO, more symptomatic of the current EWAR mechanics favoring scouts with invisible permascan powers than anything else. GalLogi slots are also bad, but it has the benefit of a 3/3/4 equipment slot progression from STD->PRO, something the MinLogi shares. Moreover, the Logi bonuses are generally pretty terrible (or are on similarly terrible platforms). MinLogi seems to be something of the exceptions, but if I'm honest it's probably because of the popularity of heavies. Of course, that then leads into the whole "logis are for repping", which is stupid because it very quickly becomes "logis are walking talking rep tools".
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4194	Posted - 2014.10.15 03:18:00 - [38] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: The point of that post is really to illustrate that the slot progression of the logis is 1. broken, and 2. stupid. Yes, I do note that the STD-level Amarr/Caldari logi suits are flat-out inferior to their scoutly cousins, but the chief reason is because the CalLogi has no sidearm and a terrible slot layout and AmLogi has a passable slot layout but is incredibly slow; both are limited to two equipment slots. It's actually a more compelling reason to buff the Logis rather than nerf scouts. Now let me be clear: I absolutely do think something needs to be done about scouts, but I think that just flat out nerfing them across the board is NOT what should be done. Scouts being broken right now is, IMO, more symptomatic of the current EWAR mechanics favoring scouts with invisible permascan powers than anything else. GalLogi slots are also bad, but it has the benefit of a 3/3/4 equipment slot progression from STD->PRO, something the MinLogi shares. Moreover, the Logi bonuses are generally pretty terrible (or are on similarly terrible platforms). MinLogi seems to be something of the exceptions, but if I'm honest it's probably because of the popularity of heavies. Of course, that then leads into the whole "logis are for repping", which is stupid because it very quickly becomes "logis are walking talking rep tools". QFT (The godfather of tactical logistics)
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13555	Posted - 2014.10.15 03:28:00 - [39] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Unimportant Crap Hey John were going Crusading again. Want in? "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4195	Posted - 2014.10.15 05:57:00 - [40] - Quote True Adamance wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: Unimportant Crap Hey John were going Crusading again. Want in? Indeed I do. Saw you were on just as I was quitting for the night, unfortunately. Will keep my eyes open tomorrow. (The godfather of tactical logistics)

DJINN Jecture BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 169	Posted - 2014.10.15 06:36:00 - [41] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: The point of that post is really to illustrate that the slot progression of the logis is 1. broken, and 2. stupid. Yes, I do note that the STD-level Amarr/Caldari logi suits are flat-out inferior to their scoutly cousins, but the chief reason is because the CalLogi has no sidearm and a terrible slot layout and AmLogi has a passable slot layout but is incredibly slow; both are limited to two equipment slots. It's actually a more compelling reason to buff the Logis rather than nerf scouts. Now let me be clear: I absolutely do think something needs to be done about scouts, but I think that just flat out nerfing them across the board is NOT what should be done. Scouts being broken right now is, IMO, more symptomatic of the current EWAR mechanics favoring scouts with invisible permascan powers than anything else. GalLogi slots are also bad, but it has the benefit of a 3/3/4 equipment slot progression from STD->PRO, something the MinLogi shares. Moreover, the Logi bonuses are generally pretty terrible (or are on similarly terrible platforms). MinLogi seems to be something of the exceptions, but if I'm honest it's probably because of the popularity of heavies. Of course, that then leads into the whole "logis are for repping", which is stupid because it very quickly becomes "logis are walking talking rep tools". ...Sigh exactly, but also a needler and a resupplier, kinda makes me feel more like a drug lord than a mercenary How long til this hits PC?
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3987	Posted - 2014.10.15 18:42:00 - [42] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I would go so far as to say that as it stands pretty much ANY Scout >> Amarr or any logi for deploying uplinks. Mobility currently trumps even the Amarr Logi bonus to uplinks (which should not be a real surprise considering how rarely a proto, or even advanced, uplink benefits from more than 50% of the bonus). I would say that's because there's a variable timer based on how long you survived when you last spawned. If you spawn in and are immediately murdered the timer is like 3 seconds, which I believe is the minimum. remove variable timers, make CRU 10 sec. start mlt/STD at 15 seconds and adjust from there. Variable timer may indeed have an impact, though last I observed it is not how fast you die, but how long you stay on the 'bleedout' screen that causes the baseline timer to decrease. This mechanic was put in place - as far as I know - to provide a counterbalance so that waiting for a revive does not have a net impact on how quickly you re-enter the battle. Without this mechanic in place it would become even more rare that mercs would wait for a revive. Even if the mechanic were removed the "+X Spawns" part of the Amarr Logi would rarely be used because it is highly unlikely for an uplink to have 20 or more spawns on it before it is destroyed by enemy action. Further even were the "+X number of spawns" to become relevant, AND the variable time to be removed, mobility would still be generally more advantageous for uplink deployment than are the "cease-to-provide-any-benefit" buff effects from the Amarr Logi. As such Scouts, DS pilots, or even LAV/HAV drivers, make for better uplink deployment assets in the current state of things than an Amarr Logi on foot. And while yes, said Logi frame could board a vehicle to gain mobility, it seems to be poor design to have a racial bonus which only becomes useful if one also employs an entirely separate asset/role. As I have mentioned in other threads, if the job is already being done satisfactorily by the non-specialist, what motivation is there to call in a specialist? Be that as it may, this whole conversation is - I think - getting a bit off topic for the thread. As such I'm going to table it for now (at least here, I remain totally open to discussing it elsewhere, such as the support feedback thread). Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Skullmiser Vulcansu 185	Posted - 2014.11.22 17:22:00 - [43] - Quote As I see it, because most people do not want the Amarr Logistcs suit to lose a sideam, no changes will be made to logistics suits at all, because it's too hard to decide what a sidearm's value is. The Amarr Logistics suit presently trades PG and two slots. I don't think the module slot is a good thing to give up, because the Amarr are generally thought to have the most hit points, and the base stats of the suits don't vary significantly enough to be able to shrug off losing a single armor plate. I think the equipment slot would be a more fair choice if a slot needs to be sacrificed. I don't think they need to give up any slots, though, because the reduced PG is already pretty crippling. I can see a lot of players using their new low slot on a PG upgrade. If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.
RKKR WarRavens Capital Punishment. 1058	Posted - 2014.11.22 17:41:00 - [44] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. Weak. We also went ballistic when you changed the logi in its current form, you still went through.
LowerThan SnakeShip The Scope Gallente Federation 13	Posted - 2014.11.22 18:01:00 - [45] - Quote i dont know what all this talk about amar logi is everyone who specs into amar logi is just doing so because they didnt get a pilot suit and amar logi is as close as we get
I-Shayz-I I----------I 5149	Posted - 2014.11.22 18:56:00 - [46] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: @OP - Some form of better scaling for slot progression within the logistics line of each race is likely called for. I am more supportive of your proposal than many I have seen since it does not seek to alter the current base balance or proto level layout of suit, simply streamline the progression from STD to PRO. 0.02 ISK Cross Will you PLEASE pound this into Rattati's head? I'm tired of everyone trying to argue slot layouts and sidearms. Just give the gallente standard more than two slots and make the jump from caldari adv to proto actually make sense! Why is this NOT so obvious to everyone else? Why can't assaults and logistics have the same slot layouts? Why is the Amarr sidearm such a big ***** deal? I sometimes just want to slap people here on the forums for not being able to focus on the main issues. Ugh /rant 7162 wp with a Repair Tool!**
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3988	Posted - 2014.11.22 19:00:00 - [47] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Cross Atu wrote: @OP - Some form of better scaling for slot progression within the logistics line of each race is likely called for. I am more supportive of your proposal than many I have seen since it does not seek to alter the current base balance or proto level layout of suit, simply streamline the progression from STD to PRO. 0.02 ISK Cross Will you PLEASE pound this into Rattati's head? I'm tired of everyone trying to argue slot layouts and sidearms. Just give the gallente standard more than two slots and make the jump from caldari adv to proto actually make sense! Why is this NOT so obvious to everyone else? Why can't assaults and logistics have the same slot layouts? Why is the Amarr sidearm such a big ******* deal? I sometimes just want to slap people here on the forums for not being able to focus on the main issues. Ugh /rant CCP Rattati and I have already engaged in conversations on the subject. In my view slot progression is an aspect of the Logistics and support overhaul o7 See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 142	Posted - 2014.11.22 19:06:00 - [48] - Quote I absolutely agree that the Logis and Assaults should have a normalized slot layout between them. That being said, I would also be absolutely livid if the Amarr Logi lost it's sidearm- that sidearm has been incredibly helpful to me, particularly in the flexibility to use light weapons with significant limitations that make them pretty nearly suicidal to use on other logi suits- things like LRs, Swarms, and to a lesser extent PLC, shotguns, and IMO MDs. EDIT: the sidearm of the Amarr Logi also seems to help it diversify, given that the link bonus is super-awesome... but it's also kind of a pigeonholing bonus. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics 4684	Posted - 2014.11.22 20:50:00 - [49] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Cross Atu wrote: @OP - Some form of better scaling for slot progression within the logistics line of each race is likely called for. I am more supportive of your proposal than many I have seen since it does not seek to alter the current base balance or proto level layout of suit, simply streamline the progression from STD to PRO. 0.02 ISK Cross Will you PLEASE pound this into Rattati's head? I'm tired of everyone trying to argue slot layouts and sidearms. Just give the gallente standard more than two slots and make the jump from caldari adv to proto actually make sense! Why is this NOT so obvious to everyone else? Why can't assaults and logistics have the same slot layouts? Why is the Amarr sidearm such a big ******* deal? I sometimes just want to slap people here on the forums for not being able to focus on the main issues. Ugh /rant QFT! (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Skullmiser Vulcansu 189	Posted - 2014.11.23 00:32:00 - [50] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: EDIT: @Thread, for the record I have no inclination to change the proto layout of any of the logi suits. Will this get me yelled at? Maybe but they are currently racially flavored while providing differing configurations and equal total slots. Most other configurations that provide inter-racial slot equality also result in less diversity than the present configuration and would thus require a compelling argument for A) why the change is better, and B) what the specific change is to each suit. They do not have equal total slots. If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.

Mexxx Dust-Slayer Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 136	Posted - 2014.11.23 01:48:00 - [51] - Quote Can the Cal logi just have it's 4th low slot removed and replaced with either a 4th equipment slot or a sidearm slot, and CPU buff to like 390 like every other logi.
Skullmiser Vulcansu 189	Posted - 2014.11.23 01:54:00 - [52] - Quote Mexxx Dust-Slayer wrote: Can the Cal logi just have it's 4th low slot removed and replaced with either a 4th equipment slot or a sidearm slot, and CPU buff to like 390 like every other logi. That would give it one more slot than the Amarr with more PG than the Amarr has. If this game was fun, I wouldn't be playing it.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1326	Posted - 2014.11.23 02:05:00 - [53] - Quote I like my Amlogi dat way Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 46	Posted - 2014.11.23 02:08:00 - [54] - Quote Can we just get rid if the tiering on slots already? So that all suits have the same number of slots (Within a speciality obviously) and the Basic/Adv/Proto tiers are reflected in the PG/CPU, Equipment Bandwidth, base EHP, and the like. Rather than also getting extra slots which creates an exponential power curve.
Indy Strizer Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 184	Posted - 2014.11.23 09:06:00 - [55] - Quote whispers Bring back type-II suits... quietly walks away and closes the door softly behind me
shaman oga Krullefor Organization 3284	Posted - 2014.11.23 17:14:00 - [56] - Quote Indy Strizer wrote: whispers Bring back type-II suits... quietly walks away and closes the door softly behind me If only medium frame were decent.... Situational awareness also known as passive scan.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1276	Posted - 2014.11.24 00:53:00 - [57] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Cross Atu wrote: @OP - Some form of better scaling for slot progression within the logistics line of each race is likely called for. I am more supportive of your proposal than many I have seen since it does not seek to alter the current base balance or proto level layout of suit, simply streamline the progression from STD to PRO. 0.02 ISK Cross Will you PLEASE pound this into Rattati's head? I'm tired of everyone trying to argue slot layouts and sidearms. Just give the gallente standard more than two slots and make the jump from caldari adv to proto actually make sense! Why is this NOT so obvious to everyone else? Why can't assaults and logistics have the same slot layouts? Why is the Amarr sidearm such a big ***** deal? I sometimes just want to slap people here on the forums for not being able to focus on the main issues. Ugh /rant CCP Rattati and I have already engaged in conversations on the subject. In my view slot progression is an aspect of the Logistics and support overhaul o7 EDIT: @Thread, for the record I have no inclination to change the proto layout of any of the logi suits. Will this get me yelled at? Maybe but they are currently racially flavored while providing differing configurations and equal total slots. Most other configurations that provide inter-racial slot equality also result in less diversity than the present configuration and would thus require a compelling argument for A) why the change is better, and B) what the specific change is to each suit. Unless such a thing occurs I am very much in the "don't fix what's not broken" camp. Slot progression however is another matter and if my suggestions are followed on the subject will be getting touched up and standardized. this includes 4 rep tools correct? 2 shield and 2 armor used by the proper races i trust? Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else**.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1276	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:02:00 - [58] - Quote Catgirl White Mage wrote: So currently. . Logistics slot layout per tier and per race is as follows. Gallente: Basic - 0 High/2 Low/3 Equ Adv - 2 High/3 Low/3 Equ (Gain 3 Slots 2 High/1 Low) Pro - 3 High/5 Low/4 Equ (Gain 3 Slots 1 High/2 Low) Minmatar: Basic - 2 High/2 Low/3 Equ Adv - 3 High/3 Low/3 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Pro - 4 High/4 Low/4 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Caldari: Basic - 2 High/1 Low/2 Equ (Editted, Error on my part) Adv - 3 High/2 Low/3 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Pro - 5 High/4 Low/3 Equ (Gain 4 slots 2 High/2 Low) Amarr: Basic - 2 High/2 Low/2 Equ/1 Sidearm (Editted, Error on my part) Adv - 3 High/3 Low/3 Equ/1 Sidearm (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low) Pro - 3 High/4 Low/3 Equ/1 Sidearm (Gain 1 slot 0 High/1 Low) There doesn't seem to be a real pattern to the progression between tier and between race. Why is Amarr Logi's layout the best at Adv and arguably at Basic also. Why does Gallente only have 2 slots at Basic? Why does Caldari jump 4 slots from Adv to Pro? gallente is the weakest at basic. it has strong gains as you progress. minmatar basic has an equal slot layout that is 'stronger' at the cost of less equipment. and has moderate gates. caldari is a bit stronger slot wise (only 1 more than gal) and gains little at advance. and the trade off is a large jump at the end game. amarr starts off the best across the board with the 2/2/1/sidearm it has a moderate gain at advanced and then it gains an extra low slot for some armor as proto cause its already good. each one is unique and has a different flavor as to how it feels as you go up. seems pretty straightforward to me... Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
JIAF-PR 122	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:08:00 - [59] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Cross Atu wrote: @OP - Some form of better scaling for slot progression within the logistics line of each race is likely called for. I am more supportive of your proposal than many I have seen since it does not seek to alter the current base balance or proto level layout of suit, simply streamline the progression from STD to PRO. 0.02 ISK Cross Will you PLEASE pound this into Rattati's head? I'm tired of everyone trying to argue slot layouts and sidearms. Just give the gallente standard more than two slots and make the jump from caldari adv to proto actually make sense! Why is this NOT so obvious to everyone else? Why can't assaults and logistics have the same slot layouts? Why is the Amarr sidearm such a big ***** deal? I sometimes just want to slap people here on the forums for not being able to focus on the main issues. Ugh /rant CCP Rattati and I have already engaged in conversations on the subject. In my view slot progression is an aspect of the Logistics and support overhaul o7** EDIT: @Thread, for the record I have no inclination to change the proto layout of any of the logi suits. Will this get me yelled at? Maybe but they are currently racially flavored while providing differing configurations and equal total slots. Most other configurations that provide inter-racial slot equality also result in less diversity than the present configuration and would thus require a compelling argument for A) why the change is better, and B) what the specific change is to each suit. Unless such a thing occurs I am very much in the "don't fix what's not broken" camp. Slot progression however is another matter and if my suggestions are followed on the subject will be getting touched up and standardized. this includes 4 rep tools correct? 2 shield and 2 armor used by the proper races i trust? Shield rep tool sound like a piece of trash (s...) "Los grandes no son grandes sino porque estamos de rodillas. Levantémonos" GÇô Pedro Albizu Campos
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1276	Posted - 2014.11.24 01:16:00 - [60] - Quote JIAF-PR wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Cross Atu wrote: @OP - Some form of better scaling for slot progression within the logistics line of each race is likely called for. I am more supportive of your proposal than many I have seen since it does not seek to alter the current base balance or proto level layout of suit, simply streamline the progression from STD to PRO. 0.02 ISK Cross Will you PLEASE pound this into Rattati's head? I'm tired of everyone trying to argue slot layouts and sidearms. Just give the gallente standard more than two slots and make the jump from caldari adv to proto actually make sense! Why is this NOT so obvious to everyone else? Why can't assaults and logistics have the same slot layouts? Why is the Amarr sidearm such a big ***** deal? I sometimes just want to slap people here on the forums for not being able to focus on the main issues. Ugh /rant CCP Rattati and I have already engaged in conversations on the subject. In my view slot progression is an aspect of the Logistics and support overhaul o7 EDIT: @Thread, for the record I have no inclination to change the proto layout of any of the logi suits. Will this get me yelled at? Maybe but they are currently racially flavored while providing differing configurations and equal total slots. Most other configurations that provide inter-racial slot equality also result in less diversity than the present configuration and would thus require a compelling argument for A) why the change is better, and B) what the specific change is to each suit. Unless such a thing occurs I am very much in the "don't fix what's not broken" camp. Slot progression however is another matter and if my suggestions are followed on the subject will be getting touched up and standardized. this includes 4 rep tools correct? 2 shield and 2 armor used by the proper races i trust? Shield rep tool sound like a piece of trash (s...) then dont use minmatar or caldari logis or shield suits? armor is gal and amarr territory. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else**.

Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1330	Posted - 2014.11.24 11:09:00 - [61] - Quote JIAF-PR wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I-Shayz-I wrote: Cross Atu wrote: @OP - Some form of better scaling for slot progression within the logistics line of each race is likely called for. I am more supportive of your proposal than many I have seen since it does not seek to alter the current base balance or proto level layout of suit, simply streamline the progression from STD to PRO. 0.02 ISK Cross Will you PLEASE pound this into Rattati's head? I'm tired of everyone trying to argue slot layouts and sidearms. Just give the gallente standard more than two slots and make the jump from caldari adv to proto actually make sense! Why is this NOT so obvious to everyone else? Why can't assaults and logistics have the same slot layouts? Why is the Amarr sidearm such a big ***** deal? I sometimes just want to slap people here on the forums for not being able to focus on the main issues. Ugh /rant CCP Rattati and I have already engaged in conversations on the subject. In my view slot progression is an aspect of the Logistics and support overhaul o7** EDIT: @Thread, for the record I have no inclination to change the proto layout of any of the logi suits. Will this get me yelled at? Maybe but they are currently racially flavored while providing differing configurations and equal total slots. Most other configurations that provide inter-racial slot equality also result in less diversity than the present configuration and would thus require a compelling argument for A) why the change is better, and B) what the specific change is to each suit. Unless such a thing occurs I am very much in the "don't fix what's not broken" camp. Slot progression however is another matter and if my suggestions are followed on the subject will be getting touched up and standardized. this includes 4 rep tools correct? 2 shield and 2 armor used by the proper races i trust? Shield rep tool sound like a piece of trash (s...) Actually they could be horrendously OP. Native suit regen +shield rep amount + armor regen mods = god teir equipment,especially on shield based suits This is why it would have to rep much less than its armor counterpart. But anyway,the Amarr logistics description states specifically that its durable (which is a lie),and can dish out its own trauma hence the sidearm. It losing the sidearm would straight up negate yet another suits description (see Min assault being highslot oriented with the 4/4 layout it currently has) Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5281	Posted - 2014.11.24 11:12:00 - [62] - Quote Just normalize equipment and take away an amarr logi high slot. If they want yo keep the sidearm so desperately let them. Just take away a fitting slot. All suits in a class must maintain the same number of slots. So either yank the sidearm or yank a high slot. Best way to deal with the problem. EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Zindorak G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1338	Posted - 2014.11.24 12:09:00 - [63] - Quote Justin Tymes wrote: The Amarr Logi isn't that good with a sidearm anyway. The lack of PG, combined with the fairly expensive Uplink PG cost and mediocre bulk makes the suit broken. You can't have decent bulk, good EQ, and good weaponry, only 2 out of 3 or at worst 1 out of 3. ANd at that point you might as well be using a scout or another Logi suit. I don't see why people scream about a Amarr Logi having a sidearm. If it's using a powerful one, it's either being a bad Logi or a bad Assault. Uplinks are a monster to fit. Pokemon master and Tekken Lord Gk0 Scout yay :)
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 150	Posted - 2014.11.24 14:42:00 - [64] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Just normalize equipment and take away an amarr logi high slot. If they want yo keep the sidearm so desperately let them. Just take away a fitting slot. All suits in a class must maintain the same number of slots. So either yank the sidearm or yank a high slot. Best way to deal with the problem. As someone who has thought much on what I would be willing to sacrifice to retain the sidearm, a high slot is definitely something that I would give up. Though I will note that at present the Amarr Logi already loses a module slot to gain the sidearm- at least at PRO level. Which should have a 2/5 slot layout, instead of the head-scratchingly bizarre 3/4 we have now. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 619	Posted - 2014.11.24 16:04:00 - [65] - Quote I think it should be more even, normalize the slot layout and have Caldari and Amarr trade an equipment slot for a sidearm. The Gallente and Minmitar have passive bonuses that are attached to their active equipment while Caldari and Amarr lose their bonus when they die. For that reason I think both should have a sidearm as a back up. Like all logis though they should still have less potential e/hp and lower speed then assaults so that they aren't as good as an assault at slaying/surviving. I say for the reasons people claim the Amarr should have a sidearm (Crappy bonus) well so should the Caldari. If that's not agreeable then I think none should have a sidearm. That's what I don't like about the Amarr logi argument, they get to be special butterflies even though Caldari also have 1 less equipment at lower tiers and a crappy bonus. Hands down right now the Caldari logi is the worst logi, especially since shared team scans elevated Gallente. Minmitar is still God tier followed by Amarr for its combat effectiveness.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 619	Posted - 2014.11.24 16:05:00 - [66] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Just normalize equipment and take away an amarr logi high slot. If they want yo keep the sidearm so desperately let them. Just take away a fitting slot. All suits in a class must maintain the same number of slots. So either yank the sidearm or yank a high slot. Best way to deal with the problem. As someone who has thought much on what I would be willing to sacrifice to retain the sidearm, a high slot is definitely something that I would give up. Though I will note that at present the Amarr Logi already loses a module slot to gain the sidearm- at least at PRO level. Which should have a 2/5 slot layout, instead of the head-scratchingly bizarre 3/4 we have now. Are you shitting me? I'll give up my secondary slot for a sidearm? No ****, I'm sure Minmitar and Gallente would give up a high as well and Caldari would give up a low.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1337	Posted - 2014.11.24 19:52:00 - [67] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: I think it should be more even, normalize the slot layout and have Caldari and Amarr trade an equipment slot for a sidearm. The Gallente and Minmitar have passive bonuses that are attached to their active equipment while Caldari and Amarr lose their bonus when they die. For that reason I think both should have a sidearm as a back up. Like all logis though they should still have less potential e/hp and lower speed then assaults so that they aren't as good as an assault at slaying/surviving. I say for the reasons people claim the Amarr should have a sidearm (Crappy bonus) well so should the Caldari. If that's not agreeable then I think none should have a sidearm. That's what I don't like about the Amarr logi argument, they get to be special butterflies even though Caldari also have 1 less equipment at lower tiers and a crappy bonus. Hands down right now the Caldari logi is the worst logi, especially since shared team scans elevated Gallente. Minmitar is still God tier followed by Amarr for its combat effectiveness. Caldari Logi's are made of paper with no real benefit. More nanos? Only my min logi carries rep tools and my frontline tank/DS pilot and only my min logi carries nanite injectors. On most my suits with an equipment slot the only real useful equipments for them is either a nano or an uplink and hands down I go with nanohives for ammo resupply. And likewise most assaults and commandos carry nanos anyways for ammo resupply. Uplinks are for careful placement and I only use them on my Cal logi along with a rep and ammo hive to set up base of operations. I then run to a supply depot or die in half a second as the Cal Logi's are more fragile then my Cal scouts. So,you admit logistics die faster than scouts,and your solution to this is to keep them as they are. Yep,this conversation is making alot of progress. (in circles) Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
Meee One Amakakeru-Ryu-no-Hirameki 1337	Posted - 2014.11.24 19:53:00 - [68] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Just normalize equipment and take away an amarr logi high slot. If they want yo keep the sidearm so desperately let them. Just take away a fitting slot. All suits in a class must maintain the same number of slots. So either yank the sidearm or yank a high slot. Best way to deal with the problem. As someone who has thought much on what I would be willing to sacrifice to retain the sidearm, a high slot is definitely something that I would give up. Though I will note that at present the Amarr Logi already loses a module slot to gain the sidearm- at least at PRO level. Which should have a 2/5 slot layout, instead of the head-scratchingly bizarre 3/4 we have now. Are you shitting me? I'll give up my secondary slot for a sidearm? No ****, I'm sure Minmitar and Gallente would give up a high as well and Caldari would give up a low. No,if i wanted a sidearm i would've chosen Amarr. I chose Min so i could rep. Official Blueberry of the Forums. Title given by my #1 fan Sgt Kirk.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 623	Posted - 2014.11.24 20:07:00 - [69] - Quote Meee One wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: I think it should be more even, normalize the slot layout and have Caldari and Amarr trade an equipment slot for a sidearm. The Gallente and Minmitar have passive bonuses that are attached to their active equipment while Caldari and Amarr lose their bonus when they die. For that reason I think both should have a sidearm as a back up. Like all logis though they should still have less potential e/hp and lower speed then assaults so that they aren't as good as an assault at slaying/surviving. I say for the reasons people claim the Amarr should have a sidearm (Crappy bonus) well so should the Caldari. If that's not agreeable then I think none should have a sidearm. That's what I don't like about the Amarr logi argument, they get to be special butterflies even though Caldari also have 1 less equipment at lower tiers and a crappy bonus. Hands down right now the Caldari logi is the worst logi, especially since shared team scans elevated Gallente. Minmitar is still God tier followed by Amarr for its combat effectiveness. Caldari Logi's are made of paper with no real benefit. More nanos? Only my min logi carries rep tools and my frontline tank/DS pilot and only my min logi carries nanite injectors. On most my suits with an equipment slot the only real useful equipments for them is either a nano or an uplink and hands down I go with nanohives for ammo resupply. And likewise most assaults and commandos carry nanos anyways for ammo resupply. Uplinks are for careful placement and I only use them on my Cal logi along with a rep and ammo hive to set up base of operations. I then run to a supply depot or die in half a second as the Cal Logi's are more fragile then my Cal scouts. So,you admit logistics die faster than scouts,and your solution to this is to keep them as they are. Yep,this conversation is making alot of progress. (in circles) I admit Cal Logis die faster because I don't use proto Cal Logis and STD and adv Cal logis have low e/hp and lower total slot counts then the other Logis. My Min adv logi is tanky because of his slot layout and the nature of how much more powerful armor is vs. shields in stacking. I said Assaults should be faster and tankier then Logis and somehow you changed that to scouts? You're just trying to skew the conversation. No where did I even mention scouts which FYI my Cal Scout dies in half a second as well if I'm not either sprinting around abusing the hit detection on light suits or cloaked hiding from the enemy. You are telling me you wouldn't sacrifice a low slot on your minmitar for a sidearm? You must be one of those min scouts that hides in the colon of a heavy and ends every game at 2/12...
Jadd Hatchen KILL-EM-QUICK 683	Posted - 2014.11.24 20:51:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o Are you being freaking ******** yet again? People were screaming about normalization back then because they knew it would affect their ability to be a slayer logi!!! So you compromised and gave the Amar Logi a freaking sidearm!!! How was that fair and equitable. Now this guy in the original post shows how your over all slot numbers are inconsistent and obviously need to be fixed and you laugh at him? WTF CCP Rattati? Additionally, ALL SCOUTS have to either loose a sidearm slot or loose an equipment slot. Right now they are too good at beign a logi and are too good at being an assault. If you choose to be a fast cloaky scout, there needs to be an actual tradeoff in capability... Right now scouts rule the game.

Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4000	Posted - 2014.11.24 21:22:00 - [71] - Quote Skullmiser Vulcansu wrote: Cross Atu wrote: EDIT: @Thread, for the record I have no inclination to change the proto layout of any of the logi suits. Will this get me yelled at? Maybe but they are currently racially flavored while providing differing configurations and equal total slots. Most other configurations that provide inter-racial slot equality also result in less diversity than the present configuration and would thus require a compelling argument for A) why the change is better, and B) what the specific change is to each suit. They do not have equal total slots. Except the Amarr who has one less while gaining a sidearm. As before if there is a specific reason for a change in that regard please feel free to post it in the feedback thread related to Logistics. The Amarr have always been a bit of an odd/edge case I am sorry my phrasing was unclear but the point remains essentially the same. EDIT: Link to appropriate place for logistics feedback. <-- For any who care to use it. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 5314	Posted - 2014.11.24 23:23:00 - [72] - Quote Jadd Hatchen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o Are you being freaking ******** yet again? People were screaming about normalization back then because they knew it would affect their ability to be a slayer logi!!! So you compromised and gave the Amar Logi a freaking sidearm!!! How was that fair and equitable. Now this guy in the original post shows how your over all slot numbers are inconsistent and obviously need to be fixed and you laugh at him? WTF CCP Rattati? Additionally, ALL SCOUTS have to either loose a sidearm slot or loose an equipment slot. Right now they are too good at beign a logi and are too good at being an assault. If you choose to be a fast cloaky scout, there needs to be an actual tradeoff in capability... Right now scouts rule the game. The slot normalization thing came up like a month and a half ago. Well after the slayer logi was killed with fire. So I must ask you what drugs you are on and why aren't you sharing? EVE Online is what you get when engineers attempt to create "fun" without consulting someone who comprehends the word.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 151	Posted - 2014.11.25 00:22:00 - [73] - Quote TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: snipped some well thought out stuff, and massive pile of vitriol directed against Amarr Logi users I would like to point out that, IMO, the Caldari Logi should be given the Caldari Assault High/Low layout (IE, 3/1 STD, 4/2 ADV, 5/3 PRO), with 3/3/4 equipment slots at STD/ADV/PRO- this gives it a more all-round design. Moreover, if shield-based repair tools were ever added, then the CalLogi would (naturally and rightly) get a bonus to such an equipment item... which, IMO, makes a sidearm redundant. It's my opinion, at least, that an Amarr Logi's sidearm slot makes repping people actively an undesirable action- you've got two guns, and putting both of them away in favor of chaining oneself to a heavy with a rep tool seems... asinine, quite frankly. I'd rather keep that heavy alive by shooting the pissants who think "oh, a heavy on open ground! FREE KILL!!1!"... though that might also be due to the fact that I have great hatred for the vapid morons who think that in the following scenario: PROBLEM: While crossing open ground, we are taking fire from long range (IE, outside of HMG range) SOLUTIONS: 1. Shoot those punks who think they can drop your heavybro 2. Keep the heavy rep-leashed at all costs Solution #2 is the appropriate one (protip: it bloody well isn't). With that said, I am not in the slightest bit opposed to the Caldari Logi being made the shield equivalent of the Amarr variation. It would, at least, be interesting. Finally, I'd also like to point out that, at least for me, the argument of "keep the AmLogi sidearm" is due to the fact that it has, since the day that Uprising was released and the AmLogi was brought into the game, been built around "AmLogi having a sidearm is one of the defining features of the suit". It's never been about a supposedly sub-par bonus (I actually quite like the bonus, as it happens), it's always been a case of the Amarr Logi keeping it's original defining feature. TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Are you shitting me? I'll give up my secondary slot for a sidearm? No ***, I'm sure Minmitar and Gallente would give up a high as well and Caldari would give up a low. Breakin's comment was basically that, yes. I don't get what your problem with the Amarr Logi is- the suit's defining feature has always* been that it's the only logi with a sidearm slot. I do not want to see that removed, because a lot of interesting (and viable) fits- like AmLogi tankhunters using swarms/PLC with proxies/REs/AV nades- are immediately killed to the detriment of the game as a whole. I will, however, reiterate that I do not mind the Caldari Logi getting the same distinction in a shield-based format. It, quite frankly, is a reasonable plan- the current distinction ("has most slots") is not actually a distinction anymore, and is also rather a rather ass distinction at that. Also, I'd like to point out that a MinLogi would be more likely to give up a low slot than a high- despite the base armor/shield values I tend to see more MinLogis either shield or dual-tanking; not very many- at least in my experience- run pure armor tanks. Finally, I'd like to point out that Logi suits need to have the same sprint* speed* as an assault of equal race, because otherwise a logi is completely unable to keep up with a group of assault users. Jadd Hatchen wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o Are you being freaking ******** yet again? People were screaming about normalization back then because they knew it would affect their ability to be a slayer logi!!! So you compromised and gave the Amar Logi a freaking sidearm!!! How was that fair and equitable. Now this guy in the original post shows how your over all slot numbers are inconsistent and obviously need to be fixed and you laugh at him? WTF CCP Rattati? Additionally, ALL SCOUTS have to either loose a sidearm slot or loose an equipment slot. Right now they are too good at beign a logi and are too good at being an assault. If you choose to be a fast cloaky scout, there needs to be an actual tradeoff in capability... Right now scouts rule the game. You are obviously either: a. New to DUST. b. Stupid. Take your pick, because slayer logis were completely murderized no later than Uprising 1.6- and IIRC it was actually around 1.4/1.5-ish that it happened. Furthermore, as I mentioned further up in my post, the defining aspect of the Amarr Logi has always been as the "logi with a sidearm". Also, scout-related discussion is best kept to other places. It's pretty much accepted by 99% of the community (or at least those who care) that scouts are overperforming by ridiculous degrees. You don't need to say that it's the way things are because everybody already knows. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 908	Posted - 2014.12.01 19:49:00 - [74] - Quote Bump MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
The-Errorist SVER True Blood 915	Posted - 2014.12.04 19:16:00 - [75] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Just normalize equipment and take away an amarr logi high slot. If they want yo keep the sidearm so desperately let them. Just take away a fitting slot. All suits in a class must maintain the same number of slots. So either yank the sidearm or yank a high slot. Best way to deal with the problem. No objections so far; CCP do it. MAG + Dust cb vet, an alt of Velvet Overkill & Agent Overkill. http://vimeo.com/93181621
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 606	Posted - 2014.12.04 20:13:00 - [76] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Just normalize equipment and take away an amarr logi high slot. If they want yo keep the sidearm so desperately let them. Just take away a fitting slot. All suits in a class must maintain the same number of slots. So either yank the sidearm or yank a high slot. Best way to deal with the problem. No objections so far; CCP do it. Amarr already lost the slot. Thats why its short one relative to the rest of the class at PRO. The Amarr is the worst for repping from because the suit is SLOW. We can't rep while sprinting, so the minute your heavy decides to push without saying so first he outpaces the beam. You know you're slow when heavies can outrun you. If the group is just sitting still all inside one 10m area, its not bad. The minute its time to go, the repper is put away and somehing else replaces it. Slot parity already exists for the class, equipment slot progression ( 2-3,3-4) could perhaps be filtered downwards BUT not having PRO level equipment carrying abilities on STD suits seems correct IMO. IMO also ALL Logis should have their sidearms returned, with no penalty. Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.
Joel II X Bacon with a bottle of Quafe 4880	Posted - 2014.12.04 20:34:00 - [77] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Atiim wrote: The Logistics' slot layouts need to match their Assault counterparts. Only if my Caldari Logi gets another equipment sot and a CPU buff. Currently I have to run a complex CPU to fit everything. I feel like EVERY suit should require a fitting optimization module to fit all proto +¦ unless they have all cores and fitting optimization skills.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 1294	Posted - 2014.12.04 21:48:00 - [78] - Quote el OPERATOR wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: Just normalize equipment and take away an amarr logi high slot. If they want yo keep the sidearm so desperately let them. Just take away a fitting slot. All suits in a class must maintain the same number of slots. So either yank the sidearm or yank a high slot. Best way to deal with the problem. No objections so far; CCP do it. Amarr already lost the slot. Thats why its short one relative to the rest of the class at PRO. The Amarr is the worst for repping from because the suit is SLOW. We can't rep while sprinting, so the minute your heavy decides to push without saying so first he outpaces the beam. You know you're slow when heavies can outrun you. If the group is just sitting still all inside one 10m area, its not bad. The minute its time to go, the repper is put away and somehing else replaces it. Slot parity already exists for the class, equipment slot progression ( 2-3,3-4) could perhaps be filtered downwards BUT not having PRO level equipment carrying abilities on STD suits seems correct IMO. IMO also ALL Logis should have their sidearms returned, with no penalty. no. logis are not combat suits. their job is support. they do not need more weapons. if they all gain a side arm the assault suit need to be given more slots to account for it. logis are already nearly on par with assaults minus 1 slot. then you add 3-4equipment and it tips in favor of the logi. this doesnt make sense because logis should fit less than an assault across the board. usually a heavy interdictor has most slots in the cruiser category from what i gather followed by heavy assauts and recons. logis are middle of the pack iirc. the only justification to giving a logi a sidearm for all races would be making the repair tools weapon slot items. and that requires releasing 3 new repair tools and chaning the minmatar tool to shields. theres no reason for a non combat oriented suit to have a light weapon a grenade 3-4 equipment slots and pretty much the same slot layout for mods. assault suits already max out at 12 total slots on the proto end. 1 light 1 side 1 grenade 1 equipment and 8 slots. logis already top that in the proto end at an average 13-15 slots. with those slots you can comprable health as well as heal yourself, resupply your ammo, repair/revive teammates and so on. theyre combat abilites need to come down. adding a sidearm would bump the cal logi to a whopping 16 slots. which is the highest in the game. its a shield logi. with no shield tool. and only armor repping equipment. and the most slots for fitting weapons and tank of any other medium suit. it doesnt make any sense. adding another sidearm isnt going to fix anything thats wrong with the logis on a fundamental level. they all need a racial repair tool. first with secondary bonuses to other racial equipment. the repair tool taking a weapon slot and having the sidearm be given as a backup is also valid but thats up to ccp to decide. logis need a small speed boost since logi cruisers are faster than heavy assault cruisers (base stats, not counting assaults with kin cats) the logi base movement/sprint speed should be slightly higher than the base stats of their assault counterparts. and less combat capabilities. they need to focus on equipment equipment equipment and let other people keep them alive. a logi should never have to kill an enemy player. he should be supporting his team and through his efforts his team is able to kill freely. the cal logi needs to switch his shield regen delay and shield depleted regen delay with the caldari assault as well. the whole idea between the logi and the assault is you go from the medium suit which is general purpose. and you go full on combat with absolutely no versatility or versatile support with severly diminished combat abilities. as a fps every suit should have a weapon. but it doesnt mean the logi should be just as powerful as an assault with more equipment. this applies only to the bolded statement. i agree with the rest of your post. a standard suit should not have the ability to fit full proto mods. i said the same thing in an hav thread where somone one proposing a flat buff to the cpu and pg of all vehicles. there is only standard vehicles. if they ruin into difficulty fitting proto mods thats to be expected. although that is slightly off topic. just saying i agree on that. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Victor Moody Stahl Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 194	Posted - 2014.12.05 00:50:00 - [79] - Quote Joel II X wrote: I feel like EVERY suit should require a fitting optimization module to fit all proto +¦ unless they have all cores and fitting optimization skills. I contend that Alena's point is that it's necessary to fit a Complex CPU mod to fill out every slot of the suit- it's already well established that the Caldari Logi is notoriously CPU starved. I highly doubt that any Logi suit can realistically fit "full proto" and still be combat effective in their role. Auris Lionesse wrote: el OPERATOR wrote: The-Errorist wrote: Breakin Stuff wrote: [...] [...] [...]IMO also ALL Logis should have their sidearms returned, with no penalty. no. logis are not combat suits. their job is support. they do not need more weapons. if they all gain a side arm the assault suit need to be given more slots to account for it. logis are already nearly on par with assaults minus 1 slot. then you add 3-4equipment and it tips in favor of the logi. this doesnt make sense because logis should fit less than an assault across the board.[...] Snipped down to relevant parts... also, dat quote chain, and emphasis mine. If you really believe logis to be nearly the equal of an assault... I don't know what you're smoking, but it must be some really good stuff. Because the only way a Logi is equal or better than an Assault at anything is if the Logi is playing their role and focusing on using equipment- and even their gun, when it is appropriate- to support their team. If you just want to shoot people in the face, then an Assault suit is blatantly superior- it's faster, has more stamina, more durability, and weapon bonuses. Even considering the ass nature of the Caldari/Gallente racial bonuses, they still can fit better weapons and grenades with much greater ease. Comparing, say, the Amarr Logi and Amarr Assault (as the former is the "sidearm Logi", so to speak), also points out some fairly obvious things- Logis are flimsy, slow, and only marginally less blind than Assaults. In other words, you are, quite simply, wrong. The "Slayer Logi"- IE, the Logi that does everything the Assault does and then some- is never going to return. Assaults will always be better at shooting stuff in the face, while Logis will be perceived as "not a combat suit". Which is in and of itself stupid, since if they weren't a combat suit, then they would not be deployed to the burnzone. Buff Logis \| Nerf Scouts
el OPERATOR Capital Acquisitions LLC General Tso's Alliance 606	Posted - 2014.12.05 01:57:00 - [80] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: Assaults will always be better at shooting stuff in the face, while Logis will be perceived as "not a combat suit". Which is in and of itself stupid, since if they weren't a combat suit, then they would not be deployed to the burnzone. This guy gets it. +1 Open-Beta Vet. Drunk Night Tree Burner. This is my Main and Original. DUST514 is WARFARE, not WAR-FAIR.

Dauth Jenkins Titans of Phoenix 584	Posted - 2014.12.05 02:23:00 - [81] - Quote Victor Moody Stahl wrote: The suit description- which is something I'd wager a million ISK that new players actually do read- explicitly notes the AmLogi as being better at direct combat than the other logi suits. The way that this plays out in-game is that it receives a sidearm, thus keeping it from being completely helpless- either at close range or entirely so- when using certain primary weapons cough laser rifle, swarms cough. Moreover, the Amarr logi suit having a sidearm slot also makes it- at least IMO- ideal for players who find repping to be insufferably boring, uninteresting, and generally uncompelling gameplay. The fact that I can be busy providing uplinks, nanos, scans, and maybe even revives, while at the same exact time occupying myself with the part of the game that involves shooting other players in the face, is incredibly attractive. Yes, you can in fact do that in any logi suit. However, the Amarr Logi having a sidearm slot brings a lot of interesting combinations and increases the attractiveness of certain weapons for logi suit users. The biggest and most obvious one is the swarms+sidearm combination, seasoned to taste with proxy/remote explosives, nanos, a scanner, or anything else you could possibly desire for equipment. Moreover, your mentioning of "energy resupply", "heat reduction", and narrows eyes repping makes me wonder just how much you remember about current mechanics. Because there is no energy resupply, heat reduction is suit-specific bonus, and it's actually the dirty Minmatar logi that has the rep tool bonus. The Amarr Logi bonus is to drop uplinks. As such, it really is more beneficial for it to have a sidearm, since it improves a player's ability to defend a position- by both safely deploying links and then preventing them from being camped (because being on the receiving end of that sucks). I do agree that the Amja is far superior to the AmLogi right now- at least for the STD level suits- but, based on reading the Logi thread that Cross started (42 pages is a LOT to read through... good thing I had a lot of free time that day) it's actually a complicated affair with no singular cause, and lots of different ideas and options on what should, and what will probably be, done. when i play solo, i play in this suit (the advanced version, the standard is literally no better than a scout). The sidearm gives it much greater weapon variety, and makes it quite an efficient AV Suit. -Sincerely --The Dual Swarm Commando


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