Shield rep tool sound like a piece of trash (s...)

The Amarr Logi isn't that good with a sidearm anyway. The lack of PG, combined with the fairly expensive Uplink PG cost and mediocre bulk makes the suit broken. You can't have decent bulk, good EQ, and good weaponry, only 2 out of 3 or at worst 1 out of 3. ANd at that point you might as well be using a scout or another Logi suit.

I don't see why people scream about a Amarr Logi having a sidearm. If it's using a powerful one, it's either being a bad Logi or a bad Assault.

Just normalize equipment and take away an amarr logi high slot.

If they want yo keep the sidearm so desperately let them. Just take away a fitting slot.

All suits in a class must maintain the same number of slots. So either yank the sidearm or yank a high slot.

Best way to deal with the problem.

As someone who has thought much on what I would be willing to sacrifice to retain the sidearm, a high slot is definitely something that I would give up.

Though I will note that at present the Amarr Logi already loses a module slot to gain the sidearm- at least at PRO level. Which should have a 2/5 slot layout, instead of the head-scratchingly bizarre 3/4 we have now.

I think it should be more even, normalize the slot layout and have Caldari and Amarr trade an equipment slot for a sidearm. The Gallente and Minmitar have passive bonuses that are attached to their active equipment while Caldari and Amarr lose their bonus when they die. For that reason I think both should have a sidearm as a back up.

Like all logis though they should still have less potential e/hp and lower speed then assaults so that they aren't as good as an assault at slaying/surviving.

I say for the reasons people claim the Amarr should have a sidearm (Crappy bonus) well so should the Caldari. If that's not agreeable then I think none should have a sidearm.

That's what I don't like about the Amarr logi argument, they get to be special butterflies even though Caldari also have 1 less equipment at lower tiers and a crappy bonus. Hands down right now the Caldari logi is the worst logi, especially since shared team scans elevated Gallente. Minmitar is still God tier followed by Amarr for its combat effectiveness. Caldari Logi's are made of paper with no real benefit. More nanos? Only my min logi carries rep tools and my frontline tank/DS pilot and only my min logi carries nanite injectors. On most my suits with an equipment slot the only real useful equipments for them is either a nano or an uplink and hands down I go with nanohives for ammo resupply. And likewise most assaults and commandos carry nanos anyways for ammo resupply. Uplinks are for careful placement and I only use them on my Cal logi along with a rep and ammo hive to set up base of operations. I then run to a supply depot or die in half a second as the Cal Logi's are more fragile then my Cal scouts.

Are you shitting me? I'll give up my secondary slot for a sidearm? No ****, I'm sure Minmitar and Gallente would give up a high as well and Caldari would give up a low.

So,you admit logistics die faster than scouts,and your solution to this is to keep them as they are.
Yep,this conversation is making alot of progress. (in circles)

We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o

They do not have equal total slots.

Are you being freaking ******** yet again? People were screaming about normalization back then because they knew it would affect their ability to be a slayer logi!!! So you compromised and gave the Amar Logi a freaking sidearm!!! How was that fair and equitable. Now this guy in the original post shows how your over all slot numbers are inconsistent and obviously need to be fixed and you laugh at him? WTF CCP Rattati?

Additionally, ALL SCOUTS have to either loose a sidearm slot or loose an equipment slot. Right now they are too good at beign a logi and are too good at being an assault. If you choose to be a fast cloaky scout, there needs to be an actual tradeoff in capability... Right now scouts rule the game.

*snipped some well thought out stuff, and massive pile of vitriol directed against Amarr Logi users*

Are you shitting me? I'll give up my secondary slot for a sidearm? No ****, I'm sure Minmitar and Gallente would give up a high as well and Caldari would give up a low.

Are you being freaking ******** yet again? People were screaming about normalization back then because they knew it would affect their ability to be a slayer logi!!! So you compromised and gave the Amar Logi a freaking sidearm!!! How was that fair and equitable. Now this guy in the original post shows how your over all slot numbers are inconsistent and obviously need to be fixed and you laugh at him? WTF CCP Rattati?

Additionally, ALL SCOUTS have to either loose a sidearm slot or loose an equipment slot. Right now they are too good at beign a logi and are too good at being an assault. If you choose to be a fast cloaky scout, there needs to be an actual tradeoff in capability... Right now scouts rule the game.

Just normalize equipment and take away an amarr logi high slot.

If they want yo keep the sidearm so desperately let them. Just take away a fitting slot.

All suits in a class must maintain the same number of slots. So either yank the sidearm or yank a high slot.

Best way to deal with the problem.

No objections so far; CCP do it.

Only if my Caldari Logi gets another equipment sot and a CPU buff. Currently I have to run a complex CPU to fit everything.

Amarr already lost the slot. Thats why its short one relative to the rest of the class at PRO.

The Amarr is the worst for repping from because the suit is SLOW. We can't rep while sprinting, so the minute your heavy decides to push without saying so first he outpaces the beam. You know you're slow when heavies can outrun you. If the group is just sitting still all inside one 10m area, its not bad. The minute its time to go, the repper is put away and somehing else replaces it.




Slot parity already exists for the class, equipment slot progression ( 2-3,3-4) could perhaps be filtered downwards BUT not having PRO level equipment carrying abilities on STD suits seems correct IMO.

IMO also ALL Logis should have their sidearms returned, with no penalty.

I feel like EVERY suit should require a fitting optimization module to fit all proto +¦ unless they have all cores and fitting optimization skills.

no.
logis are not combat suits. their job is support. they do not need more weapons.
if they all gain a side arm the assault suit need to be given more slots to account for it.
logis are already nearly on par with assaults minus 1 slot.
then you add 3-4equipment and it tips in favor of the logi.
this doesnt make sense because logis should fit less than an assault across the board.[...]

Assaults will always be better at shooting stuff in the face, while Logis will be perceived as "not a combat suit".

Which is in and of itself stupid, since if they weren't a combat suit, then they would not be deployed to the burnzone.

The suit description- which is something I'd wager a million ISK that new players actually do read- explicitly notes the AmLogi as being better at direct combat than the other logi suits. The way that this plays out in-game is that it receives a sidearm, thus keeping it from being completely helpless- either at close range or entirely so- when using certain primary weapons *cough* laser rifle, swarms *cough*.

Moreover, the Amarr logi suit having a sidearm slot also makes it- at least IMO- ideal for players who find repping to be insufferably boring, uninteresting, and generally uncompelling gameplay. The fact that I can be busy providing uplinks, nanos, scans, and maybe even revives, while at the same exact time occupying myself with the part of the game that involves shooting other players in the face, is incredibly attractive.

Yes, you can in fact do that in any logi suit. However, the Amarr Logi having a sidearm slot brings a lot of interesting combinations and increases the attractiveness of certain weapons for logi suit users. The biggest and most obvious one is the swarms+sidearm combination, seasoned to taste with proxy/remote explosives, nanos, a scanner, or anything else you could possibly desire for equipment.

Moreover, your mentioning of "energy resupply", "heat reduction", and *narrows eyes* repping makes me wonder just how much you remember about current mechanics. Because there is no energy resupply, heat reduction is suit-specific bonus, and it's actually the dirty Minmatar logi that has the rep tool bonus.

The Amarr Logi bonus is to drop uplinks. As such, it really is more beneficial for it to have a sidearm, since it improves a player's ability to defend a position- by both safely deploying links and then preventing them from being camped (because being on the receiving end of that sucks).

I do agree that the Amja is far superior to the AmLogi right now- at least for the STD level suits- but, based on reading the Logi thread that Cross started (42 pages is a LOT to read through... good thing I had a lot of free time that day) it's actually a complicated affair with no singular cause, and lots of different ideas and options on what should, and what will probably be, done.