The Amarr logi needs to lose the sidearm. Either all logis get a sidearm (which could lead us back to the slayer logi days, so, no) or none of them do.

Shouldn't be the amarrian logi appeal should be it is the best buffer armor supporter for his brethren?

Making the armies of amarr unstoppable with resupplying their energy, reducing their heat, keeping that mountainous amounts of armor repaired?

"Well I got a sidearm!"

Sounds like something a filthy minmatar would resort too.

As it stands

Amarr Scout >>>>>>>>> Amarr Logi in just about every single situation.

I would go so far as to say that as it stands pretty much ANY Scout >> Amarr or any logi for deploying uplinks.
Mobility currently trumps even the Amarr Logi bonus to uplinks (which should not be a real surprise considering how rarely a proto, or even advanced, uplink benefits from more than 50% of the bonus).

The slots as they are are bloody terrible. The AmLogi is passable at standard, except it's still outclassed by really any scout suit at equal tier, and CalLogi is straight up a downgrade compared to a scout suit for beginner/newbro logis- fewer slots and no sidearm all for a second equipment slot?! That's a terrible tradeoff symptomatic of an equally terrible slot layout scheme.

At advanced level, the AmLogi and MinLogi are both pretty reasonable (but I'd rather have a 2/4 med/low rather than 3/3 as an AmLogi), but then at proto CalLogi gets mad slot count, GalLogi and MinLogi get 4 (FOUR!) equipment slots, and Amarr Logi gets the short end of the stick.

At the very least, slot layout for the Caldari, Gallente, and Minmatar logi suits needs to be normalized with their assault brothers- MinLogi is actually the only one that does this AFAIK, since MinSalt is 2/2, 3/3, and 4/4 med/low, with light+sidearm+grenade and 1 equip. It also indicates that losing a sidearm and some base stats (mostly HP) is evidently worth gaining 2-3 equipment slots.

IMO, the non-Amarr Logis should actually be changed to have 4 equipment slots at all levels. As an Amarr Logi (mostly part time*), I also feel that gaining a sidearm is worth losing either a module slot, OR an equipment slot, compared to the AmSalt and the other logi suits- but it definitely isn't worth both.

*The current DDM event makes a scout suit a better choice for dual militia Magsec SMGs, which are terrible anyways. Hopefully I'll be the only one really using them though....

The point of that post is really to illustrate that the slot progression of the logis is 1. broken, and 2. stupid. Yes, I do note that the STD-level Amarr/Caldari logi suits are flat-out inferior to their scoutly cousins, but the chief reason is because the CalLogi has no sidearm and a terrible slot layout and AmLogi has a passable slot layout but is incredibly slow; both are limited to two equipment slots.

It's actually a more compelling reason to buff the Logis rather than nerf scouts. Now let me be clear: I absolutely do think something needs to be done about scouts, but I think that just flat out nerfing them across the board is NOT what should be done. Scouts being broken right now is, IMO, more symptomatic of the current EWAR mechanics favoring scouts with invisible permascan powers than anything else.

GalLogi slots are also bad, but it has the benefit of a 3/3/4 equipment slot progression from STD->PRO, something the MinLogi shares. Moreover, the Logi bonuses are generally pretty terrible (or are on similarly terrible platforms). MinLogi seems to be something of the exceptions, but if I'm honest it's probably because of the popularity of heavies.

Of course, that then leads into the whole "logis are for repping", which is stupid because it very quickly becomes "logis are walking talking rep tools".

Unimportant Crap

Hey John were going Crusading again.

Want in?

The point of that post is really to illustrate that the slot progression of the logis is 1. broken, and 2. stupid. Yes, I do note that the STD-level Amarr/Caldari logi suits are flat-out inferior to their scoutly cousins, but the chief reason is because the CalLogi has no sidearm and a terrible slot layout and AmLogi has a passable slot layout but is incredibly slow; both are limited to two equipment slots.

It's actually a more compelling reason to buff the Logis rather than nerf scouts. Now let me be clear: I absolutely do think something needs to be done about scouts, but I think that just flat out nerfing them across the board is NOT what should be done. Scouts being broken right now is, IMO, more symptomatic of the current EWAR mechanics favoring scouts with invisible permascan powers than anything else.

GalLogi slots are also bad, but it has the benefit of a 3/3/4 equipment slot progression from STD->PRO, something the MinLogi shares. Moreover, the Logi bonuses are generally pretty terrible (or are on similarly terrible platforms). MinLogi seems to be something of the exceptions, but if I'm honest it's probably because of the popularity of heavies.

Of course, that then leads into the whole "logis are for repping", which is stupid because it very quickly becomes "logis are walking talking rep tools".

I would say that's because there's a variable timer based on how long you survived when you last spawned.

If you spawn in and are immediately murdered the timer is like 3 seconds, which I believe is the minimum.

remove variable timers, make CRU 10 sec. start mlt/STD at 15 seconds and adjust from there.

We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic.

@OP - Some form of better scaling for slot progression within the logistics line of each race is likely called for. I am more supportive of your proposal than many I have seen since it does not seek to alter the current base balance or proto level layout of suit, simply streamline the progression from STD to PRO.

0.02 ISK
Cross

Will you PLEASE pound this into Rattati's head?

I'm tired of everyone trying to argue slot layouts and sidearms. Just give the gallente standard more than two slots and make the jump from caldari adv to proto actually make sense!

Why is this NOT so obvious to everyone else? Why can't assaults and logistics have the same slot layouts? Why is the Amarr sidearm such a big ******* deal?

I sometimes just want to slap people here on the forums for not being able to focus on the main issues. Ugh

/rant

Will you PLEASE pound this into Rattati's head?

I'm tired of everyone trying to argue slot layouts and sidearms. Just give the gallente standard more than two slots and make the jump from caldari adv to proto actually make sense!

Why is this NOT so obvious to everyone else? Why can't assaults and logistics have the same slot layouts? Why is the Amarr sidearm such a big ******* deal?

I sometimes just want to slap people here on the forums for not being able to focus on the main issues. Ugh

/rant

EDIT: @Thread, for the record I have no inclination to change the proto layout of any of the logi suits. Will this get me yelled at? Maybe but they are currently racially flavored while providing differing configurations and equal total slots. Most other configurations that provide inter-racial slot equality also result in less diversity than the present configuration and would thus require a compelling argument for A) why the change is better, and B) what the specific change is to each suit.

Can the Cal logi just have it's 4th low slot removed and replaced with either a 4th equipment slot or a sidearm slot, and CPU buff to like 390 like every other logi.

*whispers*

Bring back type-II suits...

*quietly walks away and closes the door softly behind me*

CCP Rattati and I have already engaged in conversations on the subject. In my view slot progression is an aspect of the Logistics and support overhaul o7

EDIT: @Thread, for the record I have no inclination to change the proto layout of any of the logi suits. Will this get me yelled at? Maybe but they are currently racially flavored while providing differing configurations and equal total slots. Most other configurations that provide inter-racial slot equality also result in less diversity than the present configuration and would thus require a compelling argument for A) why the change is better, and B) what the specific change is to each suit.

Unless such a thing occurs I am very much in the "don't fix what's not broken" camp. Slot progression however is another matter and if my suggestions are followed on the subject will be getting touched up and standardized.

So currently. . Logistics slot layout per tier and per race is as follows.

Gallente:
Basic - 0 High/2 Low/3 Equ
Adv - 2 High/3 Low/3 Equ (Gain 3 Slots 2 High/1 Low)
Pro - 3 High/5 Low/4 Equ (Gain 3 Slots 1 High/2 Low)

Minmatar:
Basic - 2 High/2 Low/3 Equ
Adv - 3 High/3 Low/3 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low)
Pro - 4 High/4 Low/4 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low)

Caldari:
Basic - 2 High/1 Low/2 Equ (Editted, Error on my part)
Adv - 3 High/2 Low/3 Equ (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low)
Pro - 5 High/4 Low/3 Equ (Gain 4 slots 2 High/2 Low)

Amarr:
Basic - 2 High/2 Low/2 Equ/1 Sidearm (Editted, Error on my part)
Adv - 3 High/3 Low/3 Equ/1 Sidearm (Gain 2 slots 1 High/1 Low)
Pro - 3 High/4 Low/3 Equ/1 Sidearm (Gain 1 slot 0 High/1 Low)

There doesn't seem to be a real pattern to the progression between tier and between race. Why is Amarr Logi's layout the best at Adv and arguably at Basic also. Why does Gallente only have 2 slots at Basic? Why does Caldari jump 4 slots from Adv to Pro?

this includes 4 rep tools correct? 2 shield and 2 armor used by the proper races i trust?

Shield rep tool sound like a piece of trash (s...)