DUST Search - Please normalize Logistics slot progression

Iron Wolf Saber wrote:

Victor Moody Stahl wrote:

I agree with John and Nocturnal Soul- the AmLogi MUST retain its sidearm. IMHO, this is worth either losing a module slot (compared to the Amarr assault suit) or losing an equipment slot (compared to the other logis, which IMO, should be 4 equip across all levels), but not both.

Removing the AmLogi's sidearm will anger a lot of players- me included. And it really comes down to the fact that the AmLogi is supposed to be defined by having a sidearm, and it's why a lot of players (again, myself included) chose the Amarr Logi over other options.

Shouldn't be the amarrian logi appeal should be it is the best buffer armor supporter for his brethren?

Making the armies of amarr unstoppable with resupplying their energy, reducing their heat, keeping that mountainous amounts of armor repaired?

"Well I got a sidearm!"

Sounds like something a filthy minmatar would resort too.

As it stands

Amarr Scout >>>>>>>>> Amarr Logi in just about every single situation.


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Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3241	Posted - 2014.10.14 19:33:00 - [1] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: We already proposed this, and mostly everyone went ballistic. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FpoyshqB8-o To be fair, it was more the loss of the Amarr sidearm that riled up we unwashed masses. The Amarr logi needs to lose the sidearm. Either all logis get a sidearm (which could lead us back to the slayer logi days, so, no) or none of them do. I'd like to see the conceptual justification for this Ripley. I usually feel like even when we don't 100% agree I can readily understand your reasoning. However in this case I find myself not seeing the support for either statement made. I neither think that inclusion of a sidearm would make 'slayer logi' return (not that I favor it as an option) nor that if one logi race has something all the others should have it as well (be it a sidearm slot or something else). Care to elaborate as to why you hold these to be true? @OP - Some form of better scaling for slot progression within the logistics line of each race is likely called for. I am more supportive of your proposal than many I have seen since it does not seek to alter the current base balance or proto level layout of suit, simply streamline the progression from STD to PRO. 0.02 ISK Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3241	Posted - 2014.10.14 19:37:00 - [2] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: Victor Moody Stahl wrote: I agree with John and Nocturnal Soul- the AmLogi MUST retain its sidearm. IMHO, this is worth either losing a module slot (compared to the Amarr assault suit) or losing an equipment slot (compared to the other logis, which IMO, should be 4 equip across all levels), but not both. Removing the AmLogi's sidearm will anger a lot of players- me included. And it really comes down to the fact that the AmLogi is supposed to be defined by having a sidearm, and it's why a lot of players (again, myself included) chose the Amarr Logi over other options. Shouldn't be the amarrian logi appeal should be it is the best buffer armor supporter for his brethren? Making the armies of amarr unstoppable with resupplying their energy, reducing their heat, keeping that mountainous amounts of armor repaired? "Well I got a sidearm!" Sounds like something a filthy minmatar would resort too. As it stands Amarr Scout >>>>>>>>> Amarr Logi in just about every single situation. I would go so far as to say that as it stands pretty much ANY Scout >> Amarr or any logi for deploying uplinks. Mobility currently trumps even the Amarr Logi bonus to uplinks (which should not be a real surprise considering how rarely a proto, or even advanced, uplink benefits from more than 50% of the bonus). See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3987	Posted - 2014.10.15 18:42:00 - [3] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: Cross Atu wrote: I would go so far as to say that as it stands pretty much ANY Scout >> Amarr or any logi for deploying uplinks. Mobility currently trumps even the Amarr Logi bonus to uplinks (which should not be a real surprise considering how rarely a proto, or even advanced, uplink benefits from more than 50% of the bonus). I would say that's because there's a variable timer based on how long you survived when you last spawned. If you spawn in and are immediately murdered the timer is like 3 seconds, which I believe is the minimum. remove variable timers, make CRU 10 sec. start mlt/STD at 15 seconds and adjust from there. Variable timer may indeed have an impact, though last I observed it is not how fast you die, but how long you stay on the 'bleedout' screen that causes the baseline timer to decrease. This mechanic was put in place - as far as I know - to provide a counterbalance so that waiting for a revive does not have a net impact on how quickly you re-enter the battle. Without this mechanic in place it would become even more rare that mercs would wait for a revive. Even if the mechanic were removed the "+X Spawns" part of the Amarr Logi would rarely be used because it is highly unlikely for an uplink to have 20 or more spawns on it before it is destroyed by enemy action. Further even were the "+X number of spawns" to become relevant, AND the variable time to be removed, mobility would still be generally more advantageous for uplink deployment than are the "cease-to-provide-any-benefit" buff effects from the Amarr Logi. As such Scouts, DS pilots, or even LAV/HAV drivers, make for better uplink deployment assets in the current state of things than an Amarr Logi on foot. And while yes, said Logi frame could board a vehicle to gain mobility, it seems to be poor design to have a racial bonus which only becomes useful if one also employs an entirely separate asset/role. As I have mentioned in other threads, if the job is already being done satisfactorily by the non-specialist, what motivation is there to call in a specialist? Be that as it may, this whole conversation is - I think - getting a bit off topic for the thread. As such I'm going to table it for now (at least here, I remain totally open to discussing it elsewhere, such as the support feedback thread). Cheers, Cross See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 3988	Posted - 2014.11.22 19:00:00 - [4] - Quote I-Shayz-I wrote: Cross Atu wrote: @OP - Some form of better scaling for slot progression within the logistics line of each race is likely called for. I am more supportive of your proposal than many I have seen since it does not seek to alter the current base balance or proto level layout of suit, simply streamline the progression from STD to PRO. 0.02 ISK Cross Will you PLEASE pound this into Rattati's head? I'm tired of everyone trying to argue slot layouts and sidearms. Just give the gallente standard more than two slots and make the jump from caldari adv to proto actually make sense! Why is this NOT so obvious to everyone else? Why can't assaults and logistics have the same slot layouts? Why is the Amarr sidearm such a big ******* deal? I sometimes just want to slap people here on the forums for not being able to focus on the main issues. Ugh /rant CCP Rattati and I have already engaged in conversations on the subject. In my view slot progression is an aspect of the Logistics and support overhaul o7 See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 4000	Posted - 2014.11.24 21:22:00 - [5] - Quote Skullmiser Vulcansu wrote: Cross Atu wrote: EDIT: @Thread, for the record I have no inclination to change the proto layout of any of the logi suits. Will this get me yelled at? Maybe but they are currently racially flavored while providing differing configurations and equal total slots. Most other configurations that provide inter-racial slot equality also result in less diversity than the present configuration and would thus require a compelling argument for A) why the change is better, and B) what the specific change is to each suit. They do not have equal total slots. Except the Amarr who has one less while gaining a sidearm. As before if there is a specific reason for a change in that regard please feel free to post it in the feedback thread related to Logistics. The Amarr have always been a bit of an odd/edge case I am sorry my phrasing was unclear but the point remains essentially the same. EDIT: Link to appropriate place for logistics feedback. <-- For any who care to use it. See a cool idea thread? Mail me the title and I'll take a look =)