Swarm Speed, and Swarm turning is removing dropships from play too easy. The swarm speed I don't really have an issue with but its turning radius is an issue. Evasive flying isn't helping a great deal. The issue is the turning for the swarms need somewhere around 5 - 10% more increase. 10-¦ - 90-¦ angle positions in relation to swarm missiles are not really allowing dropships to out maneuver them. Thus far my interaction with swarms calls for me running much more away from the battle rather than being a part of the battle.

If the Python is not in a good position, the incubus is worst. With less firerate, your smallrail overheat (level 5) with only 4 or 5 shots. The rail is simply useless. I will post a video soon that will show the before/after.
For the moment, I'm returning from where I started : incubus and missile launcher.

Without dogfight, the ADS is not as appealing

Yes when it comes to air vs ground the Incubus is having some hard times, that was why I posted all the issues on both. My rail RoF isn't bad but it isn't doing enough damage. Please post your videos as soon as you can, and lets hope we can get more pilots here for feedback.

I tend to die like every 90 seconds when I'm playing DUST. How often do you lose dropships?

It's going to take a few days for CCP to get good metrics on the state of the ADS after Hotfix Delta.

I tend to die like every 90 seconds when I'm playing DUST. How often do you lose dropships?

It's going to take a few days for CCP to get good metrics on the state of the ADS after Hotfix Delta.

I die quite a bit actually. But what are you going at is indifferent because the flux of feedback will over shadow most of what you maybe thinking is fine. My responses are far from bias. I have an Assault player, a logi, a scout and the hat goes deeper. I strongly suggest you looking from this aside from your own perspective. I am not sure if you mean this sarcastic or asking in sincerity.

Quite simply, this is a question that should b answered by Rattati, perhaps you could pose it to him for me (if he doesn't respond here) - is one AV player supposed to destroy one vehicle player in a one-on-on situation in evenly matched circumstances? If yes: why is AV so handsomely rewarded (ie, WP rewards for soloing a vehicle are very high); if not, then should the balance point for AV/V not be more powerful AV and cheaper vehicles?

Realistically, I don't have an opinion on Delta ADS yet. I know Charlie ADS was extremely OP. But I haven't been on to play yet, and CCP doesn't have statistics yet, so it's hard to say. But the big notion that drives me nuts is the expectation that an ADS can always run away from a battle. Because no infantry player (except maybe scouts when versus other infantry) has anything anywhere close to that option.

The problem is, it shouldn't be "ADS finds one AV, that AV dies" nor "ADS finds one AV, and gets to run off to safety". There should be a fight there. One player should be able to actually have a chance of killing another player and vice versa. However, while an ADS has an above average chance of killing any single infantry they encounter, an ADS is only threatened by infantry if they carry a small subset of weapons, and then, only if there are multiple infantry carrying that small set of weapons, apparently.

One player needs to be able to kill one player. If an AV and an ADS meet somewhere, they should each be capable of killing the other. And the AV should probably have a bit of an advantage, since their primary (or sole, in the case of swarms) role is to kill vehicles, whereas the ADS is much more versatile. And while the ADS has the chance to flee, the swarm launcher often does not.

I don't quite get the bit where you think it should be easier for a 30k point and shoot weapon to kill a 430k (after delta) ads than it is the other way round.

The problem is, it shouldn't be "ADS finds one AV, that AV dies" nor "ADS finds one AV, and gets to run off to safety". There should be a fight there. One player should be able to actually have a chance of killing another player and vice versa. However, while an ADS has an above average chance of killing any single infantry they encounter, an ADS is only threatened by infantry if they carry a small subset of weapons, and then, only if there are multiple infantry carrying that small set of weapons, apparently.

One player needs to be able to kill one player. If an AV and an ADS meet somewhere, they should each be capable of killing the other. And the AV should probably have a bit of an advantage, since their primary (or sole, in the case of swarms) role is to kill vehicles, whereas the ADS is much more versatile. And while the ADS has the chance to flee, the swarm launcher often does not.

Realistically, I don't have an opinion on Delta ADS yet. I know Charlie ADS was extremely OP. But I haven't been on to play yet, and CCP doesn't have statistics yet, so it's hard to say. But the big notion that drives me nuts is the expectation that an ADS can always run away from a battle. Because no infantry player (except maybe scouts when versus other infantry) has anything anywhere close to that option.

Realistically, I don't have an opinion on Delta ADS yet. I know Charlie ADS was extremely OP. But I haven't been on to play yet, and CCP doesn't have statistics yet, so it's hard to say. But the big notion that drives me nuts is the expectation that an ADS can always run away from a battle. Because no infantry player (except maybe scouts when versus other infantry) has anything anywhere close to that option.

I tend to die like every 90 seconds when I'm playing DUST. How often do you lose dropships?

It's going to take a few days for CCP to get good metrics on the state of the ADS after Hotfix Delta.

ISK cost isn't a good balancing method. (It's actually a really bad one.) And ADSes got an incredibly high ISK efficiency rating anyhow. They were too cheap for their durability.

And from personal experience, my swarm fit was close to 300k. And I would often lose three to six of them trying (and failing) to kill a single ADS.

Please go into 1st airborne chat and ask any pilot in there if they have ever fine isk positive from an extended period of time flying

10-14 deaths per match? Get good scrub. Even running STD gear I rarely hit that.

You are better off with a grimsness and a gunner then a ADS. Cause the grimsness can actually get some decent tank on without exploding instantly.

Hello, Gabriella!
I can't contribute much to the ADS point of view reagarding the Swarm Missile gunfight, because I'm either DS transporter or DS door-gunner. When your standard DS gets the visual cue (or the hit) from the swarmer, it's a very different set of mechanics to gunslinging it out with the opponent.

In the DS driver's mindset, I immediately want to hold still and continue to be a target, to get the Swarm Launcher to expose himself long enough for my gunner to AIM-DOWN-ZOOM-SIGHTS and engage him. I KNOW my gunner can zoom and get a better render of the Launcher than I can get as the driver.

In the door turret-gunner's mindset, I can see that Launcher light up before all the missiles even leave his shoulder, and I PRAY my driver holds still and doesn't notice we're about to be hit by an initail swarm (yeah, it sounds callous to my driver), because I see a clean chance to zoom-aim and put a turret round right in the Launcher's mouth before he even lives to see his first volley harmlessly strike our Transport DS.


But an ADS doesn't have that (I'd say "FAIR") counter advantage against the Swarm Launcher.

Even if a DS driver can't "see" the opponent, her gunner has a crack at Zoom-locking on him with a turret as dangerously as he's Zoom-locking us, and the driver doesn't have to be so neck-crampingly positioned over the opponent for her gunner to defeat the Swarm Launcher.
...The ADS has no zoom, or early-visual, or latitude of firing-position, ... arguably NO FIGHTING advantage at all. Only a fleeing advantage, and a dev bias that's hell bent on MAKING you flee.

These are variables that I expect make the RoF turret reduction a LOT easier for DS driver/gunner crews to live with than for ADS operators. The mechanics of how the DS or ADS "defends itself and fights back" is almost too different for them to be working with the same spec gun. (...too different to be carrying the same spec gun...MAYBE, that's the key to a solution).

Those same variables are nearly impossible to argue to a Swarm Launcher carrier---he's got a totally different vision (literally)--he can't possibly agree that having "more rounds per second to make up for how hard it is to lock on him" is FAIR counterbalance for his "3 consecutive bullseyes on us"---and unfortunately the DS has now become the Moby **** that the obsessed Swarm carrier MUST BE ALLOWED TO KILL, OR ELSE THIS GAME IS BROKEN AND THE SWARM-PLAYER IS GOING TO KICK HIS PET DOG IN THE BELLY if CCP doesn't let him swarm-kill Celesta instead of just swarm-chasing her away.

And I don't think these variables will carry any weight with CCP, because in a face-off with AV or other vehicles, they want your ADS to have to flee more than it has been doing in the past. The more aggressive a vehicle is able to be in a confrontation, the more CCP's "balance" solution is to make that vehicle have to flee sooner, and stay around less. I don't agree with that at all for an EVE game, but To CCP, you may be legitimately considered "more balanced" now.

Two players working together should be a more powerful combination than running solo. (See, for instance, a heavy with a logi backing him.)

I understand that the ADS pilots think differently. I literally do not believe ADS pilots have experienced a balanced gameplay, because vehicles have always been some level of overpowered. The fact that ADSes have been borderline indestructible has to end. Because it's unfair to everyone else.

Let me put it this way, if the ADS had not been nerfed, the price would've had to go up. A lot. Their effectiveness was incredible for the price they were paying.

Even running solo swarms are a huge threat to ADS. I honestly lost count of how many dropships i shot down today as a cal scout with proto swarms and tripple damage mods.