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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7774	Posted - 2014.09.23 00:52:00 - [121] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: What the hell is with nerfing our ROF to 3% per level? Most pilots agree it needed a nerf, but FFS, not by that much. And a 45-35 second recharge on an AB is also immensely overboard. What's that with max Core Grid skills? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2679	Posted - 2014.09.23 00:57:00 - [122] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Where was discussion on such a huge Nerf to ADS ROF? The decision was mine and mine alone, a 50% increase in DPS is unprecedented progression of damage in the game, and makes it impossible to balance. I decided to rip the band aid off and we don't need a full named hotfix to inject one or two remedies afterwards. And just to iterate, based on all data and experience, the ADS is far too powerful. It is a huge force multiplier and it does everything well, it transports infantry and uplinks. decimates infantry and vehicles, intercepts RDVs and vehicle delivery, avoids swarms with ease. The only counter is a mass team shift to AV, and forges, and by then the rest of the ADS team has gone full anti-infantry. Even if you, by some off chance, take it down, the pilot ejects, runs behind a hill and calls in another one. I see that the discussion has swayed from, "it's not OP", to "we all knew and admitted it was OP but this is too much". We will monitor the situation, and ADS performance stats plummet below an acceptable threshold, our response will be immediate, not based on a hotfix schedule. For now, let's see what happens. Don't forget that Turret damage profiles have also changed in Delta. If it's based on making sure that it performs well, then yes. But I can tell you that nerfing both ROF and ABs are going to kill it. If you could at least make the ROF bonus a 7%, then further nerf it if it proves problematic, then I could accept that. But I am 90% sure that these numbers will plummet the craft beyond useable, which is why I'm raising this much hell about it. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Atiim 12405	Posted - 2014.09.23 00:58:00 - [123] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: But I am 90% sure that these numbers will plummet the craft beyond useable, which is why I'm raising this much hell about it. I don't mean to be inflammatory, but would you mind explaining why the RoF and AB nerfs will make ADSs useless? The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 792	Posted - 2014.09.23 00:58:00 - [124] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: What the hell is with nerfing our ROF to 3% per level? Most pilots agree it needed a nerf, but FFS, not by that much. And a 45-35 second recharge on an AB is also immensely overboard. What's that with max Core Grid skills? -25% MLT/STD 45 -> 33.75 ADV 40 -> 30 PRO 35 -> 26.25 Assuming the pilot deactivates after 5 seconds: minimum of 31.25s cycle up/down time. Alt of Halla Murr.
Evan Gotabor Prima Gallicus 85	Posted - 2014.09.23 00:59:00 - [125] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: What the hell is with nerfing our ROF to 3% per level? Most pilots agree it needed a nerf, but FFS, not by that much. And a 45-35 second recharge on an AB is also immensely overboard. What's that with max Core Grid skills? And what about the overnerf of the ROF ? Please reconsider trying it at 5% instead of 3%... A x8 skill should not be that much useless... Or change entierly the bonuses of these skills. Wouldn't that solve both the problem of the stacking and the OP side of the ROF ? Prima Gallicus diplomat. Contact Hubert De LaBatte or me if you have business to do with us.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7775	Posted - 2014.09.23 01:01:00 - [126] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: What the hell is with nerfing our ROF to 3% per level? Most pilots agree it needed a nerf, but FFS, not by that much. And a 45-35 second recharge on an AB is also immensely overboard. What's that with max Core Grid skills? -25% MLT/STD 45 -> 33.75 ADV 40 -> 30 PRO 35 -> 26.25 Assuming the pilot deactivates after 5 seconds: minimum of 31.25s cycle up/down time. So you are back in full force in 30 seconds, fully healed, in your dropship. How long does it take infantry from being killed, respawn and walk from a a spawn point, on average? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2679	Posted - 2014.09.23 01:03:00 - [127] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: What the hell is with nerfing our ROF to 3% per level? Most pilots agree it needed a nerf, but FFS, not by that much. And a 45-35 second recharge on an AB is also immensely overboard. What's that with max Core Grid skills? 45-11.25=33.75 Way too much for a STD, possibly MLT, but not at STD. 40-10=30 for ADV 35-8.75=26.25 for PRO If you don't want to make this module useless, subtracting the raw recharge by 10 seconds per tier will keep it from becoming useless, but keep it from being spammed. Keep in mind that the PRO AB costs us some tank, so it should trade out. I will concede on this if I prove wrong about this, but I don't believe I am. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
Atiim 12405	Posted - 2014.09.23 01:11:00 - [128] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: How long does it take infantry from being killed, respawn and walk from a a spawn point, on average? Upon termination, each spawn is about 15s, along with the 5s it takes you to get to the deployment menu (you have to wait for the kill-screen to appear. This is also increased by another 4-8s to select a fitting (which most people do upon death); all in all, as Infantry you're looking at 24-28s to get back into battle (on average). The 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1795	Posted - 2014.09.23 01:31:00 - [129] - Quote Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: How long does it take infantry from being killed, respawn and walk from a a spawn point, on average? Upon termination, each spawn is about 15s, along with the 5s it takes you to get to the deployment menu (you have to wait for the kill-screen to appear. This is also increased by another 4-8s to select a fitting (which most people do upon death); all in all, as Infantry you're looking at 24-28s to get back into battle (on average). Assuming maximum spawn time. Spawns can also be 3 seconds. This reduces your time to 12-16 seconds. Also you don't have to select a new fit, reducing your time to 8-12 seconds. Shortest time possible is 7 seconds, assuming your trying to get back as soon as possible. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2679	Posted - 2014.09.23 01:38:00 - [130] - Quote Atiim wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: But I am 90% sure that these numbers will plummet the craft beyond useable, which is why I'm raising this much hell about it. I don't mean to be inflammatory, but would you mind explaining why the RoF and AB nerfs will make ADSs useless? The ROF and AB modules are our key components. Aside from reload speed, these two tools are the most important things to an ADS and what makes us so effective. Well, that, and the fact that the flight ceiling is WAY too high. The AB is what helps me transport troops to a point quickly, the ROF helps me clear away AV nests and areas for reattack on a point, and if I hot dropped my people onto said point, I can much more effectively help them secure it. I'm again, not saying that the AB and ROF shouldn't be nerfed, I'm saying that nerfing them both at the same time, AND to the level they're nerfed is going overboard. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS VP Gaming Alliance 548	Posted - 2014.09.23 01:38:00 - [131] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: I noticed large missiles got a -15 +15 profile. I was under the impression they were explosive, not projectile(kinetic). What about small missile turrets, what profile do they have ? I also noticed that we buffed Supply Depot range to 26m, from 16m. Map design and supply depot placement with the original intended range might not accommodate this very well. It would be very silly and dumb if we start getting resupplied through walls or even through the floor. It so vehicles can be resupplied by the depots sitting on the second floor of outposts. On some maps vehicles can't reach the supply depot because it at an elevated position. This will help
Omega Black Zero Condotta Rouvenor Gallente Federation 104	Posted - 2014.09.23 01:45:00 - [132] - Quote From when I stole a few ADS with no ADS skills, I noticed no issue in my ability to kill with a missle turret (without any sort of increased rotation skills). An ADS doesn't need bonus skills to excel...
Zindorak 1.U.P 935	Posted - 2014.09.23 01:52:00 - [133] - Quote Can't wait to see the rifle changes. The ScP nerf kind of dissapointed me Pokemon master! I suck at Tekken lol
B-F M Ghosts of Dawn General Tso's Alliance 44	Posted - 2014.09.23 02:12:00 - [134] - Quote What are "Special Issue Starter Fits" (under Non-numerical)? GöÇGòñGòªn++ Ghosts of Dawn // now recruiting. n++GòªGòñGöÇ
Miokai Zahou WarRavens Capital Punishment. 392	Posted - 2014.09.23 02:17:00 - [135] - Quote Please redo the ROF for ADS skill to at least 5% per level instead of the 3% crap you just placed without the community discussing about it. Combing the AB nerf this makes piloting the ADS pretty much worthless to use. What ever happened to taking things slowly in baby step introductions as you guys (CCP) said you would do? I guess hypocrisy runs rife in decision making and lacking of community information engagement to controversial 'updates' will be the norm... Noob isn't really a status, it's the online equivalent of a 5-year old calling you a poopy fart head.
Derrith Erador Fatal Absolution 2679	Posted - 2014.09.23 02:47:00 - [136] - Quote Miokai Zahou wrote: Please redo the ROF for ADS skill to at least 5% per level instead of the 3% crap you just placed without the community discussing about it. Combing the AB nerf this makes piloting the ADS pretty much worthless to use. What ever happened to taking things slowly in baby step introductions as you guys (CCP) said you would do? I guess hypocrisy runs rife in decision making and lacking of community information engagement to controversial 'updates' will be the norm... another issue with that is the fact that the python will become useless in this patch. Currently if the 3% goes through we will get a 15% reduction to ROF. 1.20-15%(.18)=1.02 The max amount of shields a python can fit with an AB is 3244 ATM, and that requires two slots on high, and lvl 4 PG optimization on missiles. I currenlty have an incubus that has 4247 armor, and a complex light rep unit, and i only needed one low slot to fit this. So let me present this to you Rattati, I do not have any shield boosters on that python fit. Would you rather fly the giant brick that have over 4k armor, or the python that gets less tank, but just a little more ROF. The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 567	Posted - 2014.09.23 03:13:00 - [137] - Quote This is how they do it guys. If ADS is as bad off as you think it will be they'll buff them in Echo. And remember, theyre a lot cheaper now too, as are their turrets.
zzZaXxx Vengeance Unbound 567	Posted - 2014.09.23 03:17:00 - [138] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Can't wait to see the rifle changes. The ScP nerf kind of dissapointed me All sidearms had their range nerfed, so that doesn't count. And ASP and ASMG both got nerfed so that they're different, not just better, so that also doesn't count. Otherwise dmg went down and rate of fire went up. Not that bad it seems to me.
Mobius Wyvern Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 5325	Posted - 2014.09.23 03:29:00 - [139] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Where was discussion on such a huge Nerf to ADS ROF? The decision was mine and mine alone, a 50% increase in DPS is unprecedented progression of damage in the game, and makes it impossible to balance. I decided to rip the band aid off and we don't need a full named hotfix to inject one or two remedies afterwards. And just to iterate, based on all data and experience, the ADS is far too powerful. It is a huge force multiplier and it does everything well, it transports infantry and uplinks. decimates infantry and vehicles, intercepts RDVs and vehicle delivery, avoids swarms with ease. The only counter is a mass team shift to AV, and forges, and by then the rest of the ADS team has gone full anti-infantry. Even if you, by some off chance, take it down, the pilot ejects, runs behind a hill and calls in another one. I see that the discussion has swayed from, "it's not OP", to "we all knew and admitted it was OP but this is too much". We will monitor the situation, and if ADS performance stats plummet below an acceptable threshold, our response will be immediate, not based on a hotfix schedule. For now, let's see what happens. Don't forget that Turret damage profiles have also changed in Delta. We shall see. I shall abstain from further complaint until I get my hands on the changes. Amidst the blue skies A link from past to future The sheltering wings of the protector
Orphan Shadow Waiting For Deployment 55	Posted - 2014.09.23 03:30:00 - [140] - Quote DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: DarthPlagueis TheWise wrote: omg wow does that assault scp nerf ** me off. seriously ** this game... thanks for making the ion pistol the new carthum assault scp you idiots. this really makes me wish i could just bring myself to biomass. The Assault Scrambler Pistol still has a substantial range advantage over the Ion Pistol, and I believe it still has a substantially greater head shot bonus. just so sick of everything i use getting nerfed Darth - The Ion Pistol today is garbage compared to ScP, and more SP intensive. I use both. This change is badly needed

Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 121	Posted - 2014.09.23 03:45:00 - [141] - Quote I am going to quickly just say that, ABs having 35-45sec recharge actually makes sense considering that they have had a 10 second delay while the fuel injector has almost always had a 30second delay. So, seeing the AB is the aerial Version the of Fuel injector. It makes sense to have them be similar in delay. Also The drop in the rate of fire on ADS is not going to kill it, You still will be firing fast, and your after burner will let you fly away like a coward instead of just evading my swarms (seeing they wont be able to turn as sharp after delta). You are just going to have to hide out and sit all the way in your red line for awhile because you aren't a good enough pilot to just dodge the swarms and rather just wait for your AB's to recharge. Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
CommanderBolt TerranProtossZerg 1707	Posted - 2014.09.23 03:47:00 - [142] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Where was discussion on such a huge Nerf to ADS ROF? The decision was mine and mine alone, a 50% increase in DPS is unprecedented progression of damage in the game, and makes it impossible to balance. I decided to rip the band aid off and we don't need a full named hotfix to inject one or two remedies afterwards. And just to iterate, based on all data and experience, the ADS is far too powerful. It is a huge force multiplier and it does everything well, it transports infantry and uplinks. decimates infantry and vehicles, intercepts RDVs and vehicle delivery, avoids swarms with ease. The only counter is a mass team shift to AV, and forges, and by then the rest of the ADS team has gone full anti-infantry. Even if you, by some off chance, take it down, the pilot ejects, runs behind a hill and calls in another one. I see that the discussion has swayed from, "it's not OP", to "we all knew and admitted it was OP but this is too much". We will monitor the situation, and if ADS performance stats plummet below an acceptable threshold, our response will be immediate, not based on a hotfix schedule. For now, let's see what happens. Don't forget that Turret damage profiles have also changed in Delta. Rattati, appreciate you holding your hands up and admitting this is your doing. I could go off on a long rant but that would not be productive. I will just say this. Watch as the popularity of ADS pretty much drops to 0. I rarely see them as it is. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Alena Ventrallis Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 1797	Posted - 2014.09.23 03:47:00 - [143] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Where was discussion on such a huge Nerf to ADS ROF? The decision was mine and mine alone, a 50% increase in DPS is unprecedented progression of damage in the game, and makes it impossible to balance. I decided to rip the band aid off and we don't need a full named hotfix to inject one or two remedies afterwards. And just to iterate, based on all data and experience, the ADS is far too powerful. It is a huge force multiplier and it does everything well, it transports infantry and uplinks. decimates infantry and vehicles, intercepts RDVs and vehicle delivery, avoids swarms with ease. The only counter is a mass team shift to AV, and forges, and by then the rest of the ADS team has gone full anti-infantry. Even if you, by some off chance, take it down, the pilot ejects, runs behind a hill and calls in another one. I see that the discussion has swayed from, "it's not OP", to "we all knew and admitted it was OP but this is too much". We will monitor the situation, and if ADS performance stats plummet below an acceptable threshold, our response will be immediate, not based on a hotfix schedule. For now, let's see what happens. Don't forget that Turret damage profiles have also changed in Delta. I disagree with your assertions, but I respect and admire your response. Listen to my muscle memory Contemplate what I've been clinging to Forty-six and two ahead of me
CommanderBolt TerranProtossZerg 1707	Posted - 2014.09.23 03:48:00 - [144] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: I am going to quickly just say that, ABs having 35-45sec recharge actually makes sense considering that they have had a 10 second delay while the fuel injector has almost always had a 30second delay. So, seeing the AB is the aerial Version the of Fuel injector. It makes sense to have them be similar in delay. Also The drop in the rate of fire on ADS is not going to kill it, You still will be firing fast, and your after burner will let you fly away like a coward instead of just evading my swarms (seeing they wont be able to turn as sharp after delta). You are just going to have to hide out and sit all the way in your red line for awhile because you aren't a good enough pilot to just dodge the swarms and rather just wait for your AB's to recharge. Lol you can't dodge the swarms , unless by dodge you mean hugging buildings and such. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Lonewolf Heavy Chaotic Company 121	Posted - 2014.09.23 03:51:00 - [145] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: I am going to quickly just say that, ABs having 35-45sec recharge actually makes sense considering that they have had a 10 second delay while the fuel injector has almost always had a 30second delay. So, seeing the AB is the aerial Version the of Fuel injector. It makes sense to have them be similar in delay. Also The drop in the rate of fire on ADS is not going to kill it, You still will be firing fast, and your after burner will let you fly away like a coward instead of just evading my swarms (seeing they wont be able to turn as sharp after delta). You are just going to have to hide out and sit all the way in your red line for awhile because you aren't a good enough pilot to just dodge the swarms and rather just wait for your AB's to recharge. Lol you can't dodge the swarms , unless by dodge you mean hugging buildings and such. Read the notes for Hot fix delta, They are reducing the turn speed on swarms, meaning you can actually dodge them now Blueberries are delicious and an essential part of my diet ;) Commando/Heavy Willing to PC for anyone for a low price
CommanderBolt TerranProtossZerg 1708	Posted - 2014.09.23 03:58:00 - [146] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: CommanderBolt wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: I am going to quickly just say that, ABs having 35-45sec recharge actually makes sense considering that they have had a 10 second delay while the fuel injector has almost always had a 30second delay. So, seeing the AB is the aerial Version the of Fuel injector. It makes sense to have them be similar in delay. Also The drop in the rate of fire on ADS is not going to kill it, You still will be firing fast, and your after burner will let you fly away like a coward instead of just evading my swarms (seeing they wont be able to turn as sharp after delta). You are just going to have to hide out and sit all the way in your red line for awhile because you aren't a good enough pilot to just dodge the swarms and rather just wait for your AB's to recharge. Lol you can't dodge the swarms , unless by dodge you mean hugging buildings and such. Read the notes for Hot fix delta, They are reducing the turn speed on swarms, meaning you can actually dodge them now Yea I noticed, from a figure of "90" what ever that means, to "80". That is like a ~11% decrease or so. I honestly doubt you will be dodging swarms now. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 792	Posted - 2014.09.23 04:06:00 - [147] - Quote Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Read the notes for Hot fix delta, They are reducing the turn speed on swarms, meaning you can actually dodge them now Wow, a whole 10 degrees And Rattati, one of the biggest reasons people really disliked the Devs before you was because they just did stuff on a whim. If you'd just given us some warning it would've been good. And really, why such a massive swing? I'm not just talking about the huge chunk ripped off the ROF, but you're changing a good half dozen variables at once. Well hell, I might as well throw it out: can you please try flying? You're apparently willing to try the AV side of things, but we have had at least two pilots offer to get you airborne ISK free but you seem unwilling to actually experience what pilots do? Why? I can understand if you've been annoyed recently at the ADS threads, but really a lot of these changes feel, to me, to be pretty witch-hunty. Are ADS changes needed? Sure. But they don't need to be so heavy handed nor so rapid: ADSs are very effective, perhaps overly so in some ways, but they are not so powerful as to ignore everything. You say that ADSs aren't destroyed enough: how much do your statistics tell you about how long pilots have been flying? Which ADSs, in particular, survive too much? Alt of Halla Murr.
Thokk Nightshade KNIGHTZ OF THE ROUND 552	Posted - 2014.09.23 04:08:00 - [148] - Quote CCP Rattati, quick question. Can you explain the "proposed zoom" number change? I see on a charge it is going from 18 to 15 and the Thales is going from 18 to 15. Is that a degrees of vision number? And does that mean the charge is getting a zoom increase while the Thales is getting a zoom decrease? Or am I totally misreading those numbers. It was also mentioned by someone else, but, the HMG effective range. 5,250. Can you explain what that number is? Thanks for all the work you are doing to make this game bad freaking ass! Thokk Kill. Thokk Crush. Thokk Smash.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7792	Posted - 2014.09.23 04:45:00 - [149] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: MLT Afterburners appear to have 150% Thrust, which is the same as a Delta PRO Afterburner. They all have the same Thrust today? Deleted some confusing extra columns from the spreadsheet. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7792	Posted - 2014.09.23 04:48:00 - [150] - Quote man- bear pig wrote: Can you explain the dropsuit changes, or how the spreadsheet is supposed to be read? The spreadsheet isn't exactly clear as to which proposed numbers refer to what Race. Also, what is the "AM-GA" and "GA-MM" columns referring to? Only yellow cells are going to change, Gallente and Caldari have the same hitpoints so we were making sure that Amarr and Minmatar had the same difference in hitpoints from the GA&CA baseline. Just for parity. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"




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