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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7698	Posted - 2014.09.22 12:03:00 - [1] - Quote Dear players, here are the numbers as they will get implemented. Most of these numbers should be familiar to those of you following the Hotfix Delta discussion threads. Without further ado, here are the numbers and changes. Hotfix Delta Numbers As this patch contains an awful lot of changes, please let us know if you see any suspicious numbers. For example, some eagle-eyes already caught a copy paste error for the Flaylock clip size (s/b 4 not 2). Much appreciated. Thanks for the participation "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7701	Posted - 2014.09.22 12:16:00 - [2] - Quote I knew I forgot something! Sorry about that, should work now "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7705	Posted - 2014.09.22 12:44:00 - [3] - Quote Jebus McKing wrote: Quote: Injectors now heal Shields at same % as Armor Assault Dropship ROF bonus to 3% per level from 10% Injectors are looking... interesting. Can't wait to try them out. As a part-time ADS pilot I have to say I like the ROF changes. This makes ADS less effective at attacking tanks. Also with that ADS price reduction getting sucker-punched by invisible AV now won't hurt as much anymore. Yep and also the cost of small turrets so should be even cheaper. And I also forgot to add the mobile CRU fitting reduction, will add it now. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7706	Posted - 2014.09.22 12:56:00 - [4] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Oh this is a good start to my Monday morning. SP and Spreadsheets. I really like the helping hand for new players with Academy extension and lvl 1 skills given. Thank god for the burst changes. Projectile weapons will do 15/15 in Delta son! Thanks Rattati for the work and effort you've committed yourself to. And I extend those thanks to team Storm Raiders, CCP Logibro, CCP Frame and CCP Rouge, who make this possible. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7706	Posted - 2014.09.22 12:57:00 - [5] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: In reference to 'Swarms - Maximum range': is this the range the missiles explode if they do not hit their intended target? Yes, because swarms travel either a distance, or a limited time, their increased speed would have allowed them to cover more ground. That's why we are hardcoding to 400m, because that's the distance that we balanced towards. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7717	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:56:00 - [6] - Quote Extraneus Tercero wrote: 1. Did the headshot multipliers for pistols make it? If so which are the numbers 2.is the zoom for the tac sniper lower or higher? and vice versa for standard. 3.how fast is the plasma cannon compared to say a Forge gun? 4. Does the ion pistol still overheat after 1 full charge? 1. yes, 200% ion (had normal 150%), 150% flaylock (didn't have any), bolt 250% (had 150%) 2. higher for standard, lower for tactical 3. dont have a comparison, but imagine 30% faster, that's how much faster it is 3. Yes, but no overheat damage and the seize is much shorter. It feels like a long charge, and you can followup with a few normal shots. It's fun. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7717	Posted - 2014.09.22 13:57:00 - [7] - Quote Extraneus Tercero wrote: 5. Will medic starter fit have racial light weapon?or still the AR? 6 Will gallente Anti-armor have a plasma cannon? 5. no,AR, it's a normal medic weapon 6. pretty good idea actually, one for another Hotfix. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7719	Posted - 2014.09.22 14:22:00 - [8] - Quote Evan Gotabor wrote: Three more question for you Rattati : - are mobile CRU now giving WP ? - are transport WP mechanic being modified, I saw some talks about it, but I don't know of it's wherabout - do you have a capsulier or someone from CCP to who I can sent the link of our last PC game against Vengeance Unbound (unlisted on youtube) ? This way, you might see what is the true job of an incubus rail pilot. In the worst case, I will send it to you ingame as soon as I have access to my Eve account. nope no, not right now, but 100% on the table send it to [email protected] "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7766	Posted - 2014.09.22 23:53:00 - [9] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: On the plus side, thanks, Ratatti, for fulfilling my request for a more or less viable mCRU Python fit. Though I wish you'd reduce the PG requirement of mCRU by about 11 so that I could actually fit an ADV AB on with max fitting skillsGÇª And to reiterate, reduce mCRU's fitting considerably to make up for the "wasted" defensive slot and change the mCRU skill to reduce spawn time by 10% per level. Just for you "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7766	Posted - 2014.09.22 23:56:00 - [10] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Rattati, what's with not giving us the specific information about rifle changes? I was really looking forward to seeing the final numbers all in one place, and seeing some specific numbers that haven't been shown yet, such as the degree of TAR's handling changes, etc. Instead there's just a note saying a bunch of obscure changes were made that no one will understand. Could we please have that information? It's very valuable and certainly of great interest to many of us. We have never shared those before, will have to check whether there was a reason for that. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7769	Posted - 2014.09.23 00:37:00 - [11] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Where was discussion on such a huge Nerf to ADS ROF? The decision was mine and mine alone, a 50% increase in DPS is unprecedented progression of damage in the game, and makes it impossible to balance. I decided to rip the band aid off and we don't need a full named hotfix to inject one or two remedies afterwards. And just to iterate, based on all data and experience, the ADS is far too powerful. It is a huge force multiplier and it does everything well, it transports infantry and uplinks. decimates infantry and vehicles, intercepts RDVs and vehicle delivery, avoids swarms with ease. The only counter is a mass team shift to AV, and forges, and by then the rest of the ADS team has gone full anti-infantry. Even if you, by some off chance, take it down, the pilot ejects, runs behind a hill and calls in another one. I see that the discussion has swayed from, "it's not OP", to "we all knew and admitted it was OP but this is too much". We will monitor the situation, and ADS performance stats plummet below an acceptable threshold, our response will be immediate, not based on a hotfix schedule. For now, let's see what happens. Don't forget that Turret damage profiles have also changed in Delta. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7774	Posted - 2014.09.23 00:52:00 - [12] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: What the hell is with nerfing our ROF to 3% per level? Most pilots agree it needed a nerf, but FFS, not by that much. And a 45-35 second recharge on an AB is also immensely overboard. What's that with max Core Grid skills? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7775	Posted - 2014.09.23 01:01:00 - [13] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Derrith Erador wrote: What the hell is with nerfing our ROF to 3% per level? Most pilots agree it needed a nerf, but FFS, not by that much. And a 45-35 second recharge on an AB is also immensely overboard. What's that with max Core Grid skills? -25% MLT/STD 45 -> 33.75 ADV 40 -> 30 PRO 35 -> 26.25 Assuming the pilot deactivates after 5 seconds: minimum of 31.25s cycle up/down time. So you are back in full force in 30 seconds, fully healed, in your dropship. How long does it take infantry from being killed, respawn and walk from a a spawn point, on average? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7792	Posted - 2014.09.23 04:45:00 - [14] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: MLT Afterburners appear to have 150% Thrust, which is the same as a Delta PRO Afterburner. They all have the same Thrust today? Deleted some confusing extra columns from the spreadsheet. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7792	Posted - 2014.09.23 04:48:00 - [15] - Quote man- bear pig wrote: Can you explain the dropsuit changes, or how the spreadsheet is supposed to be read? The spreadsheet isn't exactly clear as to which proposed numbers refer to what Race. Also, what is the "AM-GA" and "GA-MM" columns referring to? Only yellow cells are going to change, Gallente and Caldari have the same hitpoints so we were making sure that Amarr and Minmatar had the same difference in hitpoints from the GA&CA baseline. Just for parity. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7794	Posted - 2014.09.23 04:54:00 - [16] - Quote Extraneus Tercero wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Extraneus Tercero wrote: 1. Did the headshot multipliers for pistols make it? If so which are the numbers 2.is the zoom for the tac sniper lower or higher? and vice versa for standard. 3.how fast is the plasma cannon compared to say a Forge gun? 4. Does the ion pistol still overheat after 1 full charge? 1. yes, 200% ion (had normal 150%), 150% flaylock (didn't have any), bolt 250% (had 150%) 2. higher for standard, lower for tactical 3. dont have a comparison, but imagine 30% faster, that's how much faster it is 3. Yes, but no overheat damage and the seize is much shorter. It feels like a long charge, and you can followup with a few normal shots. It's fun. Does half charge still over heat? yes "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7794	Posted - 2014.09.23 04:56:00 - [17] - Quote Harpyja wrote: What? No Gunnlogi EHP buff? WTH! The Gunnlogi now has the same base EHP as a MEDIUM vehicle... We mentioned it briefly as an idea, it got no traction nor interest, and many questioned whether it was necessary. That was the end of it. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7794	Posted - 2014.09.23 04:57:00 - [18] - Quote Harpyja wrote: Extraneus Tercero wrote: Bright Cloud wrote: Harpyja wrote: What? No Gunnlogi EHP buff? WTH! The Gunnlogi now has the same base EHP as a MEDIUM vehicle... Shield hardeners give the highest resistance bonus out of all modules. I think thats a decent thing to have. And most gunnlogis stack shield modules aswell on top of armor. Plus large rail now do more damage to armor than shield Though missiles also got a damage buff against shield. Oh and I also just noticed something Militia fuel injectors provide the same speed boost as prototype? Uhm, CCP?! Edit: sorry, totally meant afterburners They always have had the same speed boost. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7794	Posted - 2014.09.23 05:04:00 - [19] - Quote Mobius Kaethis wrote: A couple of things: 1) Do you really want militia afterburners to have the same thrust increase as proto-afterburners? Given those stats why would anyone choose to use standard AB? 2) Could we actually get the rifle changes added in. I know all the changes are pretty minor but I'd like to see them none the less. 3) The sandard flaylock has less total ammo than the militia version. 20 compared to 24. This seems to be an error since the advanced can carry 24 and the proto can carry 28. I am assuming you meant to make the militia flaylock carry 20 total ammo as well. And a single question: Any chance of getting another balance pass done on AV grenades? They are borderline useless right now with even proto packed AV nades unable to kill a militia LAV unless you stand on a nanohive or a depot. 1) Afterburner boost has always been the same for all tiers. 2) We will not post numerical changes, but we can share the designs per weapon 3) Thanks, that militia ammo is an error, we will fix it. 4) Yes, we can take a look at that, usually I launch 2 swarms and double tap 2 grenades and then line up the 3 swarm shot when the HAV is fleeing. Usually he gets away though. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7794	Posted - 2014.09.23 05:05:00 - [20] - Quote Radec fett wrote: Is the assault CR getting that increased dispersion and damage? Will post the intent of the rifle changes under the Rifles page "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7794	Posted - 2014.09.23 05:06:00 - [21] - Quote Vulpes Dolosus wrote: On the plus side, thanks, Ratatti, for fulfilling my request for a more or less viable mCRU Python fit. Though I wish you'd reduce the PG requirement of mCRU by about 11 so that I could actually fit an ADV AB on with max fitting skillsGÇª And to reiterate, reduce mCRU's fitting considerably to make up for the "wasted" defensive slot and change the mCRU skill to reduce spawn time by 10% per level. So you want the PG to be 4? Nice try "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7795	Posted - 2014.09.23 05:16:00 - [22] - Quote Kaeru Nayiri wrote: Nova Knife Optimization: PG or CPU? PG "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7795	Posted - 2014.09.23 05:21:00 - [23] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: Zindorak wrote: Can't wait to see the rifle changes. The ScP nerf kind of dissapointed me All sidearms had their range nerfed, so that doesn't count. And ASP and ASMG both got nerfed so that they're different, not just better, so that also doesn't count. Otherwise dmg went down and rate of fire went up. Not that bad it seems to me. All sidearms had their range tiericided, STD got longer range, PRO shorter, in most cases. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7795	Posted - 2014.09.23 05:22:00 - [24] - Quote CommanderBolt wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Where was discussion on such a huge Nerf to ADS ROF? The decision was mine and mine alone, a 50% increase in DPS is unprecedented progression of damage in the game, and makes it impossible to balance. I decided to rip the band aid off and we don't need a full named hotfix to inject one or two remedies afterwards. And just to iterate, based on all data and experience, the ADS is far too powerful. It is a huge force multiplier and it does everything well, it transports infantry and uplinks. decimates infantry and vehicles, intercepts RDVs and vehicle delivery, avoids swarms with ease. The only counter is a mass team shift to AV, and forges, and by then the rest of the ADS team has gone full anti-infantry. Even if you, by some off chance, take it down, the pilot ejects, runs behind a hill and calls in another one. I see that the discussion has swayed from, "it's not OP", to "we all knew and admitted it was OP but this is too much". We will monitor the situation, and if ADS performance stats plummet below an acceptable threshold, our response will be immediate, not based on a hotfix schedule. For now, let's see what happens. Don't forget that Turret damage profiles have also changed in Delta. Rattati, appreciate you holding your hands up and admitting this is your doing. I could go off on a long rant but that would not be productive. I will just say this. Watch as the popularity of ADS pretty much drops to 0. I rarely see them as it is. Every mcc battle I played had at least one ADS, hardly scarce. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7795	Posted - 2014.09.23 05:35:00 - [25] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Read the notes for Hot fix delta, They are reducing the turn speed on swarms, meaning you can actually dodge them now Wow, a whole 10 degrees And Rattati, one of the biggest reasons people really disliked the Devs before you was because they just did stuff on a whim. If you'd just given us some warning it would've been good. And really, why such a massive swing? I'm not just talking about the huge chunk ripped off the ROF, but you're changing a good half dozen variables at once. Well hell, I might as well throw it out: can you please try flying? You're apparently willing to try the AV side of things, but we have had at least two pilots offer to get you airborne ISK free but you seem unwilling to actually experience what pilots do? Why? I can understand if you've been annoyed recently at the ADS threads, but really a lot of these changes feel, to me, to be pretty witch-hunty. Are ADS changes needed? Sure. But they don't need to be so heavy handed nor so rapid: ADSs are very effective, perhaps overly so in some ways, but they are not so powerful as to ignore everything. You say that ADSs aren't destroyed enough: how much do your statistics tell you about how long pilots have been flying? Which ADSs, in particular, survive too much? What makes you state that this is done on a whim, I have done my best to explain in detail and facts why we believe these changes are necessary? Now it's, "it shouldn't be 3%, it should be 5% or even 7%". That 7% proposal never came from the pilots during the multiple Delta threads and discussions. Pretty sure, if the Delta proposal had been 5%, the ADS community would say it should be 7%. We were waiting for counter proposals and they never came, and I understand why, but that's siege mentality, that we as a community could do without. Simply, the ADS community as a whole, refused completely to take part in the feedback discussions. No give and take. I would much rather want veteran players come forward and admit that some things need balancing, and that they try to influence the smartest and best ways to do so instead of defending the status quo, tooth and nail. Someone said, let's see how Delta goes, we will look at the numbers, you collect your feedback and let us know, a single ROF change can be done during any TQ downtime, any workday. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7795	Posted - 2014.09.23 05:36:00 - [26] - Quote zzZaXxx wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: zzZaXxx wrote: Zindorak wrote: Can't wait to see the rifle changes. The ScP nerf kind of dissapointed me All sidearms had their range nerfed, so that doesn't count. And ASP and ASMG both got nerfed so that they're different, not just better, so that also doesn't count. Otherwise dmg went down and rate of fire went up. Not that bad it seems to me. All sidearms had their range tiericided, STD got longer range, PRO shorter, in most cases. I'm confused. Standard has longer range than proto? And why vary the range from STD to PRO when you gave each type of rifle all the same range regardless of tier? They all have the same range now. Please read this again "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7798	Posted - 2014.09.23 06:33:00 - [27] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: I have two questions. 1. Will the plasma cannon projectile speed buff affect the trajectory of the shot? 2. Will the ion pistol overheat until the seizure point on a 'half-charge'? I know you commented that it still overheats but IIRC you mentioned heat changes and the crucial thing is whether or not it seizes with the slightest charge. We experimented with the gravity, it should still have a trajectory, let's see what the PLC community thinks when they give it a spin. Yes, that's the fundamental design of the weapon, we halved the seize duration so even if you overheat, it's not a big deal. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7808	Posted - 2014.09.23 08:51:00 - [28] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: 1. Why have large missiles been changed 'in accordance with projectile changes'? They're explosives, surely? 2. The small blaster buffs look too big, it will just be the same issue as with small rails at present - rapid fire+splash=instantakill even if you miss. 3. Rifles Quote: Multiple small tweaks to parameters noone understands That's informative... 4. DPS is RoF/60*damage. Do that for the bolt pistol and you get 630, which seems a bit INCREDIBLY HIGH! I guess the lower figure of 388 is arrived at by disregarding the final shot (which arrives 'at the end of the second'). 5. And finally we get to the sniper rifles. Absurdly OP. As ground-pounding infantry I expect I will be uninstalling when Delta launches. 1. Well they are Projectiles, and don't call me Shirley 2. Range vs DPS, Small Rails have twice the range 3. Don't you think 4. You have to factor in the charge-up, I made the same mistake 5. We'll see. I was killed once by a Thale's in the MCC event, a single death to a sniper rifle in 30-40 battles. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7836	Posted - 2014.09.23 13:21:00 - [29] - Quote Brush Master wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Evan Gotabor wrote: Three more question for you Rattati : - are mobile CRU now giving WP ? - are transport WP mechanic being modified, I saw some talks about it, but I don't know of it's wherabout - do you have a capsulier or someone from CCP to who I can sent the link of our last PC game against Vengeance Unbound (unlisted on youtube) ? This way, you might see what is the true job of an incubus rail pilot. In the worst case, I will send it to you ingame as soon as I have access to my Eve account. nope no, not right now, but 100% on the table send it to [email protected] Well glad it's still on the table but it's been there for the last 2 years but the question is, can the problems with it be solved? I've talked with devs and cpm over many generations of the CCP teams and it always seems to be tabled due to the complexity of how the mCRU came to be and how it is totally different from uplinks. mCRU still has bugs like it not appearing for players for extended periods of time, a long standing bug. I believe a support dropship pilot is the least rewarded role in the game as far as WP and the transport reward is far too low for the risk it entails to land for picking up troops. And it still is a problem, exactly as you describe. The mCRU is not an uplink and has none of the programmable attributes uplinks have. It was a shortcut hackjob back then and the only remedy we have is the transport bonus WP. Is that WP system salvageable in your opinion, if we play with those parameters, distance traveled, duration, etc? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7841	Posted - 2014.09.23 14:06:00 - [30] - Quote Derrith Erador wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: What makes you state that this is done on a whim, I have done my best to explain in detail and facts why we believe these changes are necessary? Now it's, "it shouldn't be 3%, it should be 5% or even 7%". That 7% proposal never came from the pilots during the multiple Delta threads and discussions. Pretty sure, if the Delta proposal had been 5%, the ADS community would say it should be 7% or 9%. We were waiting for counter proposals and they never came, and I understand why, but that's siege mentality, that we as a community could do without. Simply, the ADS community as a whole, refused completely to take part in the feedback discussions. No give and take. I would much rather want veteran players come forward and admit that some things need balancing, and that they try to influence the smartest and best ways to do so instead of defending the status quo, tooth and nail. Someone said, let's see how Delta goes, we will look at the numbers, you collect your feedback and let us know, a single ROF change can be done during any TQ downtime, any workday. The underlined part is kind of where I lost it, Rattati. I have been preaching multiple times about balancing the ADS vs AV. Made my own thread too. I even made a thread before the final numbers stating that the AB cooldown is way too high, right here. It's a little insulting saying the ADS community hasn't put forward any numbers when I've been risking looking more and more like some crazy crackpot (I am, but too much ATM) trying to make ADS decently useful, but not OP. I'm reasonably certain that you haven't heard much from the ADS community because nobody has seen hide nor hair of Judge, he may have shown himself during MY downtime once midnight rolled around (I fell asleep around page 8, it was midnight over here). I read both of those threads when they were written, and took note of them. I was actually missing facts from those threads to influence any decision. We truly want ADS's to be a vibrant part of the battle, just not at the cost of everyone else's happiness. That's why after Delta it will be harder to pop tanks, and sometimes an ADS will have to flee and wait 26 seconds to come back. That's the long and short of it. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7841	Posted - 2014.09.23 14:08:00 - [31] - Quote Harpyja wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Ryme Intrinseca wrote: 1. Why have large missiles been changed 'in accordance with projectile changes'? They're explosives, surely? 2. The small blaster buffs look too big, it will just be the same issue as with small rails at present - rapid fire+splash=instantakill even if you miss. 3. Rifles Quote: Multiple small tweaks to parameters noone understands That's informative... 4. DPS is RoF/60*damage. Do that for the bolt pistol and you get 630, which seems a bit INCREDIBLY HIGH! I guess the lower figure of 388 is arrived at by disregarding the final shot (which arrives 'at the end of the second'). 5. And finally we get to the sniper rifles. Absurdly OP. As ground-pounding infantry I expect I will be uninstalling when Delta launches. 1. Well they are Projectiles, and don't call me Shirley 2. Range vs DPS, Small Rails have twice the range 3. Don't you think 4. You have to factor in the charge-up, I made the same mistake 5. We'll see. I was killed once by a Thale's in the MCC event, a single death to a sniper rifle in 30-40 battles. Rattati, come on. I think we all know that missiles are explosive, not projectile. If you call them projectile, then where's the splash damage and radius on combat rifles?? Missiles are explosive and should be -20/+20 to shield/armor. Edit: to the poster above, yes Caldari favor kinetic missiles, but there are also thermal, EM, and explosive missiles. In Dust, missiles have always been explosive (though I really want ammo types so I can have EM missiles in addition to my explosive missiles). I am just explaining the facts as they are, and have been. Swarm missiles are defined as projectiles in DUST 514 and lots of people have been asking for them to be kinetic so the Caldari can utilize their bonus. Just one of those things that are they way they are. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7858	Posted - 2014.09.23 15:23:00 - [32] - Quote Evan Gotabor wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Kallas Hallytyr wrote: Lonewolf Heavy wrote: Read the notes for Hot fix delta, They are reducing the turn speed on swarms, meaning you can actually dodge them now Wow, a whole 10 degrees And Rattati, one of the biggest reasons people really disliked the Devs before you was because they just did stuff on a whim. If you'd just given us some warning it would've been good. And really, why such a massive swing? I'm not just talking about the huge chunk ripped off the ROF, but you're changing a good half dozen variables at once. Well hell, I might as well throw it out: can you please try flying? You're apparently willing to try the AV side of things, but we have had at least two pilots offer to get you airborne ISK free but you seem unwilling to actually experience what pilots do? Why? I can understand if you've been annoyed recently at the ADS threads, but really a lot of these changes feel, to me, to be pretty witch-hunty. Are ADS changes needed? Sure. But they don't need to be so heavy handed nor so rapid: ADSs are very effective, perhaps overly so in some ways, but they are not so powerful as to ignore everything. You say that ADSs aren't destroyed enough: how much do your statistics tell you about how long pilots have been flying? Which ADSs, in particular, survive too much? What makes you state that this is done on a whim, I have done my best to explain in detail and facts why we believe these changes are necessary? Now it's, "it shouldn't be 3%, it should be 5% or even 7%". That 7% proposal never came from the pilots during the multiple Delta threads and discussions. Pretty sure, if the Delta proposal had been 5%, the ADS community would say it should be 7% or 9%. We were waiting for counter proposals and they never came, and I understand why, but that's siege mentality, that we as a community could do without. Simply, the ADS community as a whole, refused completely to take part in the feedback discussions. No give and take. I would much rather want veteran players come forward and admit that some things need balancing, and that they try to influence the smartest and best ways to do so instead of defending the status quo, tooth and nail. Someone said, let's see how Delta goes, we will look at the numbers, you collect your feedback and let us know, a single ROF change can be done during any TQ downtime, any workday. Personaly, I stopped suggesting things after you show me you were decided to reduce the dropship ISK cost (but I find it logic now that the patch-notes is released). Anyway, you already have my opinion on vehicles. Beetween the number of vehicles, modules and the skills that are more or less useless (I mainly target turret proficiency in that case), the vehicles in their current state are broken. They will need a complete rework in order to be released in Legion. And even if I only speak for myself, I'm pretty sure that many pilots are ready to work with you to do that. You can use the stick and force us to do it your way, and that is your right. But remember that the stick alone is not a solution. A proper rewerd (even a long term one) will always be see with a good eye by everyone. About ROF, I still think that on the short term, you should change the racial dropship operation. As an exemple, give an overheat bonus to the gallente and more missiles on the Python magasine. Wouldn't this solve the gunner stacking ROF, while giving the impression to pilots who put level 4 or 5 on those skills that they did it for a good reason ? I think we are all excited about the prospect of looking at the whole vehicle landscape holistically.Make more modules viable and reintroduce others. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7902	Posted - 2014.09.23 22:51:00 - [33] - Quote Kallas Hallytyr wrote: ROF Nerf Impact on DPS XT-1 Small Missiles Charlie ROF: 50; 0.83/sec; 9.6 sec until reload Delta ROF (unchanged) Charlie Python 5: 75; 1.25/sec; 6.4 sec until reload Delta Python 5: 57.5; 0.96/sec; 8.3 sec until reload Direct DPS Charlie/Delta: 379.2 Charlie Python 5: 568.8 Delta Python 5: 436 Splash DPS Charlie/Delta: 297.9 Charlie Python 5: 446.9 Delta Python 5: 342.6 Small Missiles seem fine for the most part. Personally, I'd much rather look at the Small Missiles themselves more than Python: reducing damage, increasing ROF marginally and increasing clip size would be a better way to make Missiles useful on other vehicles but also make them more skill dependant, requiring multiple impacts to kill most suits rather than the current high damage splash (which is what truly makes people cry foul about the ADS, and most specifically about the Python.) - This idea has been mentioned before, I might add. 20GJ Particle Cannon Charlie ROF: 120; 2/sec; 8 before overheat Delta ROF: 92; 1.53/sec; 6.13 before overheat Charlie Incubus 5: 180; 3/sec; 12 before overheat Delta Incubus 5: 105.8; 1.763/sec; 7.05 before overheat DPS/Damage Before Overheat Charlie: 868.4/3473.6 Delta: 665.8/2661.65 Charlie Incubus 5: 1302.6/5210.4 Charlie Incubus 5/ADS 5: 1432.86/5731.44 Delta Incubus 5: 765.6/3061.11 Delta Incubus 5/ADS 5: 842.16/3367.22 Currently, due primarily to the broken hit efficacies, the Incubus rips through shield vehicles and somewhat struggles with armour (apply a .77 multiplier for the Shield DPS; .68 multiplier for Armour DPS for any Charlie number: Delta numbers are a .9 for Shields and 1.1 for Armour.) With the proposed ROF changes, a L5 Incubus is getting a single extra shot before it overheats. This is, essentially, worthless. It must also be reminded that DPS figures are always contingent on landing all shots: it applies to all DPS statistics, obviously, and not just ADSs, but I raise the point because of the difficulty in targeting and maintaining your target whilst flying. Against an enemy dropship, you usually get a single good pass before they begin evasive manoeuvres - landing all of your shots in that 4 second overheat window against a dropship is about a 70% odds, give or take for pilot skill (attacker and defender.) When the target is moving or otherwise wary of you/other anti-vehicle weaponry, landing all shots is difficult. An HAV, for example, is a difficult target because of the mechanisms available for ground attack manoeuvres: using first person view is viable in an aerial engagement but rarely applicable to a strafing run. Even more to the point, HAVs have much greater responsiveness with regards acceleration - we've all seen an HAV 'yoyo' about the place. The point being that landing all sots against a ground target is even harder. So, with the proposed changes, an Incubus with Small Railgun is going to have to apply it's full DBO repeatedly to threaten any vehicle, which is no easy task once the enemy is alerted. Quite frankly, the ROF nerf is too much and impacts upon the Incubus's ability to perform its role (primarily AV using the Small Railgun) far more greatly than the Python's anti-infantry ground attack role is affected. I would think that removing the 70% efficiency against vehicles on small rails could be a start. Again, the ROF bonus was just not a good bonus, and especially bad for lower SP pilots. Let's think outside of the box and not fight for keeping it. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7917	Posted - 2014.09.24 06:10:00 - [34] - Quote So how are you ADS pilots going to use the 15% savings on CPU/PG for small turrets? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7942	Posted - 2014.09.25 00:49:00 - [35] - Quote Please post issues or discrepancies from stated intent here https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=2375326#post2375326 "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

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