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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 35 post(s) |
Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
1791
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Posted - 2014.09.22 21:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
Where was discussion on such a huge Nerf to ADS ROF?
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
1795
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Posted - 2014.09.23 01:31:00 -
[2] - Quote
Atiim wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: How long does it take infantry from being killed, respawn and walk from a a spawn point, on average?
Upon termination, each spawn is about 15s, along with the 5s it takes you to get to the deployment menu (you have to wait for the kill-screen to appear. This is also increased by another 4-8s to select a fitting (which most people do upon death); all in all, as Infantry you're looking at 24-28s to get back into battle (on average). Assuming maximum spawn time.
Spawns can also be 3 seconds. This reduces your time to 12-16 seconds. Also you don't have to select a new fit, reducing your time to 8-12 seconds. Shortest time possible is 7 seconds, assuming your trying to get back as soon as possible.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
1797
|
Posted - 2014.09.23 03:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Where was discussion on such a huge Nerf to ADS ROF? The decision was mine and mine alone, a 50% increase in DPS is unprecedented progression of damage in the game, and makes it impossible to balance. I decided to rip the band aid off and we don't need a full named hotfix to inject one or two remedies afterwards. And just to iterate, based on all data and experience, the ADS is far too powerful. It is a huge force multiplier and it does everything well, it transports infantry and uplinks. decimates infantry and vehicles, intercepts RDVs and vehicle delivery, avoids swarms with ease. The only counter is a mass team shift to AV, and forges, and by then the rest of the ADS team has gone full anti-infantry. Even if you, by some off chance, take it down, the pilot ejects, runs behind a hill and calls in another one. I see that the discussion has swayed from, "it's not OP", to "we all knew and admitted it was OP but this is too much". We will monitor the situation, and if ADS performance stats plummet below an acceptable threshold, our response will be immediate, not based on a hotfix schedule. For now, let's see what happens. Don't forget that Turret damage profiles have also changed in Delta. I disagree with your assertions, but I respect and admire your response.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
1803
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 00:31:00 -
[4] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: What makes you state that this is done on a whim, I have done my best to explain in detail and facts why we believe these changes are necessary?
Now it's, "it shouldn't be 3%, it should be 5% or even 7%". That 7% proposal never came from the pilots during the multiple Delta threads and discussions. Pretty sure, if the Delta proposal had been 5%, the ADS community would say it should be 7% or 9%. We were waiting for counter proposals and they never came, and I understand why, but that's siege mentality, that we as a community could do without.
Simply, the ADS community as a whole, refused completely to take part in the feedback discussions. No give and take.
I would much rather want veteran players come forward and admit that some things need balancing, and that they try to influence the smartest and best ways to do so instead of defending the status quo, tooth and nail.
Someone said, let's see how Delta goes, we will look at the numbers, you collect your feedback and let us know, a single ROF change can be done during any TQ downtime, any workday.
The underlined part is kind of where I lost it, Rattati. I have been preaching multiple times about balancing the ADS vs AV. Made my own thread too.I even made a thread before the final numbers stating that the AB cooldown is way too high, right here.It's a little insulting saying the ADS community hasn't put forward any numbers when I've been risking looking more and more like some crazy crackpot (I am, but too much ATM) trying to make ADS decently useful, but not OP. I'm reasonably certain that you haven't heard much from the ADS community because nobody has seen hide nor hair of Judge, he may have shown himself during MY downtime once midnight rolled around (I fell asleep around page 8, it was midnight over here). I read both of those threads when they were written, and took note of them. I was actually missing facts from those threads to influence any decision. We truly want ADS's to be a vibrant part of the battle, just not at the cost of everyone else's happiness. That's why after Delta it will be harder to pop tanks, and sometimes an ADS will have to flee and wait 26 seconds to come back. That's the long and short of it. Here's my issue. You are setting things up for ADS to act in a certain way, then taking away their ability to act as you planned.
If ADS are supposed to do strafing runs, a high rate of fire makes that possible, especially since you haven't made any comment on turret stabilization at all. A lower rate of fire means we have to hover in order to apply our DPS, which is the exact opposite of a strafing run. This is the problem I have, I have no idea what you expect me to do as an ADS pilot. I even made a thread asking you and the CPM to tell me and the ADS community what you envision us doing on the battlefield. All I see are huge number changes without discussion, an increase in our counters ability to hit us, and a Nerf to an incubus' main weapon the small rail, meaning it is now less effective at AV and will serve better as AP, which is the exact opposite change you wanted.
So I ask again, what role are ADS supposed to fill? What is my job on the battlefield? Am I an infantry slayer? A vehicle slayer? A transport DS with an extra gun? What exactly do you picture me doing when I say I fly ADS?
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
1803
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 01:46:00 -
[5] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Kallas Hallytyr wrote:ROF Nerf Impact on DPS
XT-1 Small Missiles Charlie ROF: 50; 0.83/sec; 9.6 sec until reload Delta ROF (unchanged) Charlie Python 5: 75; 1.25/sec; 6.4 sec until reload Delta Python 5: 57.5; 0.96/sec; 8.3 sec until reload
Direct DPS Charlie/Delta: 379.2 Charlie Python 5: 568.8 Delta Python 5: 436
Splash DPS Charlie/Delta: 297.9 Charlie Python 5: 446.9 Delta Python 5: 342.6
Small Missiles seem fine for the most part. Personally, I'd much rather look at the Small Missiles themselves more than Python: reducing damage, increasing ROF marginally and increasing clip size would be a better way to make Missiles useful on other vehicles but also make them more skill dependant, requiring multiple impacts to kill most suits rather than the current high damage splash (which is what truly makes people cry foul about the ADS, and most specifically about the Python.) - This idea has been mentioned before, I might add.
20GJ Particle Cannon Charlie ROF: 120; 2/sec; 8 before overheat Delta ROF: 92; 1.53/sec; 6.13 before overheat Charlie Incubus 5: 180; 3/sec; 12 before overheat Delta Incubus 5: 105.8; 1.763/sec; 7.05 before overheat
DPS/Damage Before Overheat Charlie: 868.4/3473.6 Delta: 665.8/2661.65
Charlie Incubus 5: 1302.6/5210.4 Charlie Incubus 5/ADS 5: 1432.86/5731.44
Delta Incubus 5: 765.6/3061.11 Delta Incubus 5/ADS 5: 842.16/3367.22
Currently, due primarily to the broken hit efficacies, the Incubus rips through shield vehicles and somewhat struggles with armour (apply a .77 multiplier for the Shield DPS; .68 multiplier for Armour DPS for any Charlie number: Delta numbers are a .9 for Shields and 1.1 for Armour.)
With the proposed ROF changes, a L5 Incubus is getting a single extra shot before it overheats. This is, essentially, worthless. It must also be reminded that DPS figures are always contingent on landing all shots: it applies to all DPS statistics, obviously, and not just ADSs, but I raise the point because of the difficulty in targeting and maintaining your target whilst flying. Against an enemy dropship, you usually get a single good pass before they begin evasive manoeuvres - landing all of your shots in that 4 second overheat window against a dropship is about a 70% odds, give or take for pilot skill (attacker and defender.) When the target is moving or otherwise wary of you/other anti-vehicle weaponry, landing all shots is difficult.
An HAV, for example, is a difficult target because of the mechanisms available for ground attack manoeuvres: using first person view is viable in an aerial engagement but rarely applicable to a strafing run. Even more to the point, HAVs have much greater responsiveness with regards acceleration - we've all seen an HAV 'yoyo' about the place. The point being that landing all sots against a ground target is even harder.
So, with the proposed changes, an Incubus with Small Railgun is going to have to apply it's full DBO repeatedly to threaten any vehicle, which is no easy task once the enemy is alerted. Quite frankly, the ROF nerf is too much and impacts upon the Incubus's ability to perform its role (primarily AV using the Small Railgun) far more greatly than the Python's anti-infantry ground attack role is affected. I would think that removing the 70% efficiency against vehicles on small rails could be a start. Again, the ROF bonus was just not a good bonus, and especially bad for lower SP pilots. Let's think outside of the box and not fight for keeping it. ROF is the best way to make strafing runs possible. Accurate hits on targets while moving with no turret stabilization makes the technique worthless. We apply damage through volume of fire, not through slow accurate hits. We are machine guns, not snipers. On this logic I request the return of the ROF.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
|
Alena Ventrallis
Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo
1806
|
Posted - 2014.09.24 16:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
Again, this is because there's no consensus on what the ads is supposed to do, and Rattati has yet to give us one.
Listen to my muscle memory
Contemplate what I've been clinging to
Forty-six and two ahead of me
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