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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 35 post(s) |
Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2679
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Posted - 2014.09.23 00:04:00 -
[1] - Quote
What the hell is with nerfing our ROF to 3% per level? Most pilots agree it needed a nerf, but FFS, not by that much.
And a 45-35 second recharge on an AB is also immensely overboard.
The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2679
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Posted - 2014.09.23 00:57:00 -
[2] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Alena Ventrallis wrote:Where was discussion on such a huge Nerf to ADS ROF? The decision was mine and mine alone, a 50% increase in DPS is unprecedented progression of damage in the game, and makes it impossible to balance. I decided to rip the band aid off and we don't need a full named hotfix to inject one or two remedies afterwards. And just to iterate, based on all data and experience, the ADS is far too powerful. It is a huge force multiplier and it does everything well, it transports infantry and uplinks. decimates infantry and vehicles, intercepts RDVs and vehicle delivery, avoids swarms with ease. The only counter is a mass team shift to AV, and forges, and by then the rest of the ADS team has gone full anti-infantry. Even if you, by some off chance, take it down, the pilot ejects, runs behind a hill and calls in another one. I see that the discussion has swayed from, "it's not OP", to "we all knew and admitted it was OP but this is too much". We will monitor the situation, and ADS performance stats plummet below an acceptable threshold, our response will be immediate, not based on a hotfix schedule. For now, let's see what happens. Don't forget that Turret damage profiles have also changed in Delta. If it's based on making sure that it performs well, then yes. But I can tell you that nerfing both ROF and ABs are going to kill it. If you could at least make the ROF bonus a 7%, then further nerf it if it proves problematic, then I could accept that.
But I am 90% sure that these numbers will plummet the craft beyond useable, which is why I'm raising this much hell about it.
The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2679
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Posted - 2014.09.23 01:03:00 -
[3] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:What the hell is with nerfing our ROF to 3% per level? Most pilots agree it needed a nerf, but FFS, not by that much.
And a 45-35 second recharge on an AB is also immensely overboard. What's that with max Core Grid skills? 45-11.25=33.75 Way too much for a STD, possibly MLT, but not at STD. 40-10=30 for ADV 35-8.75=26.25 for PRO
If you don't want to make this module useless, subtracting the raw recharge by 10 seconds per tier will keep it from becoming useless, but keep it from being spammed. Keep in mind that the PRO AB costs us some tank, so it should trade out.
I will concede on this if I prove wrong about this, but I don't believe I am.
The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2679
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Posted - 2014.09.23 01:38:00 -
[4] - Quote
Atiim wrote:Derrith Erador wrote: But I am 90% sure that these numbers will plummet the craft beyond useable, which is why I'm raising this much hell about it.
I don't mean to be inflammatory, but would you mind explaining why the RoF and AB nerfs will make ADSs useless? The ROF and AB modules are our key components. Aside from reload speed, these two tools are the most important things to an ADS and what makes us so effective. Well, that, and the fact that the flight ceiling is WAY too high.
The AB is what helps me transport troops to a point quickly, the ROF helps me clear away AV nests and areas for reattack on a point, and if I hot dropped my people onto said point, I can much more effectively help them secure it.
I'm again, not saying that the AB and ROF shouldn't be nerfed, I'm saying that nerfing them both at the same time, AND to the level they're nerfed is going overboard.
The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2679
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Posted - 2014.09.23 02:47:00 -
[5] - Quote
Miokai Zahou wrote:Please redo the ROF for ADS skill to at least 5% per level instead of the 3% crap you just placed without the community discussing about it. Combing the AB nerf this makes piloting the ADS pretty much worthless to use.
What ever happened to taking things slowly in baby step introductions as you guys (CCP) said you would do? I guess hypocrisy runs rife in decision making and lacking of community information engagement to controversial 'updates' will be the norm... another issue with that is the fact that the python will become useless in this patch.
Currently if the 3% goes through we will get a 15% reduction to ROF.
1.20-15%(.18)=1.02
The max amount of shields a python can fit with an AB is 3244 ATM, and that requires two slots on high, and lvl 4 PG optimization on missiles.
I currenlty have an incubus that has 4247 armor, and a complex light rep unit, and i only needed one low slot to fit this. So let me present this to you Rattati, I do not have any shield boosters on that python fit. Would you rather fly the giant brick that have over 4k armor, or the python that gets less tank, but just a little more ROF.
The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2680
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Posted - 2014.09.23 12:58:00 -
[6] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote: What makes you state that this is done on a whim, I have done my best to explain in detail and facts why we believe these changes are necessary?
Now it's, "it shouldn't be 3%, it should be 5% or even 7%". That 7% proposal never came from the pilots during the multiple Delta threads and discussions. Pretty sure, if the Delta proposal had been 5%, the ADS community would say it should be 7% or 9%. We were waiting for counter proposals and they never came, and I understand why, but that's siege mentality, that we as a community could do without.
Simply, the ADS community as a whole, refused completely to take part in the feedback discussions. No give and take.
I would much rather want veteran players come forward and admit that some things need balancing, and that they try to influence the smartest and best ways to do so instead of defending the status quo, tooth and nail.
Someone said, let's see how Delta goes, we will look at the numbers, you collect your feedback and let us know, a single ROF change can be done during any TQ downtime, any workday.
The underlined part is kind of where I lost it, Rattati. I have been preaching multiple times about balancing the ADS vs AV.
Made my own thread too.
I even made a thread before the final numbers stating that the AB cooldown is way too high, right here.
It's a little insulting saying the ADS community hasn't put forward any numbers when I've been risking looking more and more like some crazy crackpot (I am, but too much ATM) trying to make ADS decently useful, but not OP.
I'm reasonably certain that you haven't heard much from the ADS community because nobody has seen hide nor hair of Judge, he may have shown himself during MY downtime once midnight rolled around (I fell asleep around page 8, it was midnight over here).
The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2682
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Posted - 2014.09.23 15:03:00 -
[7] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:CCP Rattati wrote: What makes you state that this is done on a whim, I have done my best to explain in detail and facts why we believe these changes are necessary?
Now it's, "it shouldn't be 3%, it should be 5% or even 7%". That 7% proposal never came from the pilots during the multiple Delta threads and discussions. Pretty sure, if the Delta proposal had been 5%, the ADS community would say it should be 7% or 9%. We were waiting for counter proposals and they never came, and I understand why, but that's siege mentality, that we as a community could do without.
Simply, the ADS community as a whole, refused completely to take part in the feedback discussions. No give and take.
I would much rather want veteran players come forward and admit that some things need balancing, and that they try to influence the smartest and best ways to do so instead of defending the status quo, tooth and nail.
Someone said, let's see how Delta goes, we will look at the numbers, you collect your feedback and let us know, a single ROF change can be done during any TQ downtime, any workday.
The underlined part is kind of where I lost it, Rattati. I have been preaching multiple times about balancing the ADS vs AV. Made my own thread too.I even made a thread before the final numbers stating that the AB cooldown is way too high, right here.It's a little insulting saying the ADS community hasn't put forward any numbers when I've been risking looking more and more like some crazy crackpot (I am, but too much ATM) trying to make ADS decently useful, but not OP. I'm reasonably certain that you haven't heard much from the ADS community because nobody has seen hide nor hair of Judge, he may have shown himself during MY downtime once midnight rolled around (I fell asleep around page 8, it was midnight over here). I read both of those threads when they were written, and took note of them. I was actually missing facts from those threads to influence any decision. We truly want ADS's to be a vibrant part of the battle, just not at the cost of everyone else's happiness. That's why after Delta it will be harder to pop tanks, and sometimes an ADS will have to flee and wait 26 seconds to come back. That's the long and short of it. Well, at least it is now known that I haven't shut up about this.
I've already made my opinion known that recharge and ROF are going to be over-nerfed, but currently restating that was rather useless of me. There is also another issue you're not seeing, it is the fact that with the current flight ceiling, your AB recharge time won't matter to most KD padding pilots. I once decided to test out for kicks and giggles just how far up I could fly once in a PC. I looked down on a bridge map while making my descent and the null cannon on it registered as 600+ meters away, mind you I was directly above it.
One more thing, on your spreadsheets, on the small missiles, the Proposed changes have not shown changes, they're the exact same from the original, despite having -30 and -15 on them.
The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2684
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Posted - 2014.09.23 23:50:00 -
[8] - Quote
Atiim wrote:I assume that Assault Dropships (like the dropsuits) are supposed to have the ability to extend their engagement times with targets, so I'd say give it a clip size bonus as opposed to a RoF skill.
If need be, we could just bump up the RoF to compensate for the loss of the bonus. The 8 clip size is plenty, and increasing the clip size as a skill for ADS, if done wrong, will make our reload speed useless.
This idea will kill the python competitive wise, as:
1) as stated before, 8 in the clip is plenty, increasing clip size will do next to nothing for us, especially if we have good reload speed.
2) increasing the ROF on the raw turret will render python useless as the incubus will have much more tank and instant armor regen, even the fact that most meta AV gets more proficiencies against incubus is negligible seeing as all it takes in a good portion of PC matches to avoid av is to duck behind a building.
The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2690
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Posted - 2014.09.24 12:13:00 -
[9] - Quote
Zindorak wrote:MINA Longstrike wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:So how are you ADS pilots going to use the 15% savings on CPU/PG for small turrets? I likely wont, as I don't see any real point to flying anymore. me too probably. Good thing i only was starting to skill up ADS The hell I will. ADS and Amarrican assault were the two things I ever enjoyed in this game. I'll be damned if I'm going to quit over that.
But even still, yeah, nerfs were too high.
The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2692
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Posted - 2014.09.24 15:18:00 -
[10] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:So how are you ADS pilots going to use the 15% savings on CPU/PG for small turrets? Well, absolutely nothing, seeing as you didn't put it in there.
The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
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Derrith Erador
Fatal Absolution
2693
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Posted - 2014.09.24 16:50:00 -
[11] - Quote
Kallas Hallytyr wrote:Derrith Erador wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:So how are you ADS pilots going to use the 15% savings on CPU/PG for small turrets? Well, absolutely nothing, seeing as you didn't put it in there. Actually it is. It's just such a small reduction that we won't be able to fit anything better anyway, since PRO modules are priority over the guns anyway... And the ROF nerf has made the Incubus worthless. The Python can still kill infantry but the Incubus is just awful now. 7th rail shot overheats? Greaaaaaat! I just played, and seeing one of the exact same fits i used pre charlie had the exact same stats as before says that isn't the case. And going from 12 to 7 on the rail? The heck are you people thinking?
The preacher of Betty White, may her pimp hand guide me.
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