I'm glad that you are being reasonable to the ACR and not listening to complainers. Hopefully, this leaves it and the Breach on somewhat equal footing.

Could you elaborate what exactly long range is. I'm assuming 60+ meters?

We need a hipfire nerf fo EVERY RIFLE. All of them. Almost nobody aims down sight anymore.

[...]

they all have very similar slopes, that you can read from the formula, more or less y=-0.02x, thanks for the input and spreadsheet

and increased dispersion

When balancing, are we taking into account the fitting factor?

Is there any reason for the Laser and A SCR and SCR rifle be very hard to fit compared to a CR or ACR (which have lower fitting requirements than many sidearms)

It will have the same DPS as the Gallente AR, after the changes. I am not too concerned, plus, very low K/S and very low usage.

So.. We're doing literally nothing to the AScR, the really underperforming one..

At least I'll be the only one to use it I guess..

When balancing, are we taking into account the fitting factor?

Is there any reason for the Laser and A SCR and SCR rifle be very hard to fit compared to a CR or ACR (which have lower fitting requirements than many sidearms)

Also, I would like to see a little additional range on the Burst Ass. Rifle. It's essentially a combat rifle with much worse hip firing, lower ROF, and a different damage profile. What advantage does it have over a CR?

I think this is a great start, but I think you are looking at the data incorrectly. This also stems from the fact that as long as you are inside your rifles optimal range you deal full damage. Instead it should be similar to the laser rifle where its on a bell curve with its optimal damage vs range. The laser rifle does full damage only inside its optimal, go closer or farther away and it does less damage.

I think to really give the rifles purpose, balance and utility. They need similar DPS only in their optimal ranges and outside those optimal range your DPS falls off like a bell curve.

So for example (these are not realistic numbers) Clarification: outside of optimal range means getting closer or farther away from it.

Assault rifles:
Burst: Optimal range 6800, @ optimal range it does 600 DPS for every meter outside that it does 1% less damage.
Breach: Optimal range 6000, @ optimal range it does 700 DPS for every meter outside it does 2% less damage.
Standard: Optimal range 6500, @ optimal range it does 650 DPS for every meter outside that it does 1% less damage.
Tactical: Optimal range 9000, @ optimal range it does 600 DPS for every meter outside that it does 1% less damage.

Combat Rifle:
Standard: Optimal range 8000, @ optimal range it does 600 DPS for every meter outside that it does 1% less damage.
Assault: Optimal range 7300, @ optimal range it does 700 DPS, for every meter outside that it does 2% less damage.

Scrambler Rifle:
Assault: Optimal Range 8200, @ optimal range it does 700 DPS, for every meter outside that it does 2% less damage.
Standard: Optimal Range 9500, @ optimal range it does 600 DPS, for every meter outside that it does 1% less damage.

ETC ETC ETC.

Would be best if optimal range/DPS would fall into a bell curve instead of linear as above example states, but it gets wordy. I assume you understand what I mean when I say bell curve.

You get uniformity and balance. Each weapon type falls into a category of short vs long. DPS will be derived from its optimal range. Its easier to balance this way because it allows you to get inside and outsides someones optimal range. Each rifle is built for a purpose as opposed to choosing the weapon with the highest DPS for its range.

You also get the desired effect without worrying a bunch of balancing, so you get kings of CQC (GAL), Middle ground (Minja), and long range (Amarr/Caldari)

Hello again,

so we have done a range pass and a dps pass on rifles before, and now that we have collected a lot of data, it's time to finetune a little our Range vs DPS correlation.

I am going to share two pictures, one with the situation as it is (just for protoype for simplification) and one after Delta tweaks.

The handling of weapons, kick and dispersion, in and out of zoom, is being discussed in this thread and I think we have closure on most of those tweaks. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174412&find=unread


Charlie - DPS vs Effective Range
[img]http://i.imgur.com/lBiBE2q.png[/img]

vs

Delta - DPS vs Effective Range
[img]http://i.imgur.com/GbLkMy9.png[/img]


The Delta tweaks are as follows

14% dmg increase of Gallente Breach Assault Rifles
2% dmg increase of Gallente Burst Assault Rifles
4% dmg increase of Assault Combat Rifles (but also increasing dispersion to counter long range accuracy)
By setting the Tac AR and Scrambler Rifle at 600 ROF, those two line up rather nicely

Comments welcome, these should not be contentious changes at all given the relative UP of Gallente Rifles.

It's an interesting balancing idea for sure, but is this realistic? Why would a rail rifle slug do less damage at 5 m than 50m. It just doesn't make any physical sense. I think a better balancing mechanic is the hip fire dispersion. It should be quite large on long range weapons and relatively smaller on CQC weapons. In essence I think the plot should be 3 dimensional (dps, range, accuracy (dispersion))??

Because its a video game and balance is more important than having things be realistic. It could be that the bullet velocity takes 80m to get up to its full damage potential. Velocity is just as important as the mass of the bullet in calculating kinetic energy.

Having large dispersion can balance it to some effect, but if people spam the bullets in short range you feel cheated if they kill you. It becomes a luck factor instead of skill/tactics.

Balance is possible with realism in mind. Which brings to question why would the bullet take 80M to do full damage? Velocity would be at it's peak when it leaves the barrel since the bullet has more energy pushing it.

i love how much love my breach AR is getting....

my creo breach already serves me well. but its going to be even better at doing so

Not if the bullet has internal propulsion to ensure it goes the distance. How is having high dispersion any more realistic?

Hmmm it's ok :)

Oh by the way, do not nerf Sniper Rifle range please :)

A weapon firing with enough force to cover a long distance would have a high amount of kick unless all the energy can be transferred into the projectile which would be almost impossible without obliterating the projectile thus excess energy will be transferred down the barrel and into the weapon which creates high kick. So internal propulsion of a very tiny projectile is possible? How much energy would it require and how much of X energy can you store within the projectile without making it to light (because it is hollow now) so it won't again, be obliterated.

As for dispersion since there is a lot of kick and you hip firing it it will start kicking everywhere and the bullets will go everywhere; rather than placing the weapon closer to your center of gravity which will mitigate the kick slightly by transferring energy down your body.

A weapon firing with enough force to cover a long distance would have a high amount of kick unless all the energy can be transferred into the projectile which would be almost impossible without obliterating the projectile thus excess energy will be transferred down the barrel and into the weapon which creates high kick. So internal propulsion of a very tiny projectile is possible? How much energy would it require and how much of X energy can you store within the projectile without making it to light (because it is hollow now) so it won't again, be obliterated.

As for dispersion since there is a lot of kick and you hip firing it it will start kicking everywhere and the bullets will go everywhere; rather than placing the weapon closer to your center of gravity which will mitigate the kick slightly by transferring energy down your body.

Look up the Kriss .45 acp PDW and chexk out its buffer system. Current tech, meant for sustainable accurate fire, mitigating a higher percent of felt recoil than any other available small arm system

Nothing in the numbers suggest it should underperform.
Literally nothing, it has amazing dispersion, amazing reload speed (best in class), gigantic clip (best in class), good DPS (isn't far from the other rifles at all), and the second longest range of the Assault variant rifles.

If anything, this rifle by all rights should be the #1 rifle used.

What's happening is the meta needs to shift to shields before it can really shine with its +20/-20 efficiency.

Rattati, I am glad to see you all went with the 600 Rof that Ratamaq and I proposed in the ScR thread. This is also great news for the plasma rifles as well.

The Assault Scrambler Rifle now, is this seeing any damage boosts or anyhing to help it's current situation? The armor tanking majority is very well prepared against this weapon. If the ads burst dispersion could be tightened, or a slight dmg boost applied, then I think we will be on a good path to getting this weapon right.

The AScR is a ranged preferable weapon, but imo i think that the ads Dispersion could be a little more "Lasery."