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Sticky:Hotfix Delta - Rifle DPS Tuning

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6566	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:01:00 - [1] - Quote Hello again, so we have done a range pass and a dps pass on rifles before, and now that we have collected a lot of data, it's time to finetune a little our Range vs DPS correlation. I am going to share two pictures, one with the situation as it is (just for protoype for simplification) and one after Delta tweaks. The handling of weapons, kick and dispersion, in and out of zoom, is being discussed in this thread and I think we have closure on most of those tweaks. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174412&find=unread Charlie - DPS vs Effective Range vs Delta - DPS vs Effective Range The Delta tweaks are as follows 14% dmg increase of Gallente Breach Assault Rifles 2% dmg increase of Gallente Burst Assault Rifles 4% dmg increase of Assault Combat Rifles (but also increasing dispersion to counter long range accuracy) By setting the Tac AR and Scrambler Rifle at 600 ROF, those two line up rather nicely Comments welcome, these should not be contentious changes at all given the relative UP of Gallente Rifles. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6567	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:19:00 - [2] - Quote Grand Master Kubo wrote: I'm not too sure about that level of increase to Gallente Breach Assault Rifles. From personal experience, the breach assault rifle is very good already. Be careful with how much buff you give it. It will have the same DPS as the Gallente AR, after the changes. I am not too concerned, plus, very low K/S and very low usage. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6572	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:23:00 - [3] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Combat rifle buffed ? These are WAY more instakilling than SCR but..anyway. and increased dispersion "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6572	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:24:00 - [4] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: The number may be a little high for the breach, though I'm curious if it will make it worth using. No changes on the assault plasma rifle? It may be the best of the bunch, but the thing is outperformed by most weapons even in its very limited intended range. I mean, it really is the only rifle to struggle vs the HMG in CQC and in short to mid range combat. It's also getting a tweak to dispersion, and we intend to make Assault bonuses for Gallente better in the future "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6576	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:57:00 - [5] - Quote Rabbit C515 wrote: why nerf Scrambler rifle DPS? decrease more than a hundred ?! ScR Hipfire Kick is proposed to increase, so now this is another nerf? For tactical rifles like the TAR and Scrambler, this is theoretical maximum dps. Not sustainable dps. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6590	Posted - 2014.09.04 08:33:00 - [6] - Quote RedPencil wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For tactical rifles like the TAR and Scrambler, this is theoretical maximum dps. Not sustainable dps. - You reduce SCR DPS by low down the ROF to 600, am I correct? - What else will you tweaks on SCR (dispersion, kick, heat)? Feeling, TacAR is coming back.............. very small increase in hip fire kick "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6604	Posted - 2014.09.04 10:33:00 - [7] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Very good, however I would suggest just 10% more hipfire dispersion on the scrambler. Small steps :) "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6609	Posted - 2014.09.04 11:33:00 - [8] - Quote Coleman Gray wrote: Anything to be done about Scr and RR's "efficiency problem"? They are the benchmark for the other rifles. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6615	Posted - 2014.09.04 11:59:00 - [9] - Quote Macchi00 wrote: I uploaded the video that I was using a bleach assault rifle. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SytAYcdVF7E Bleach assault rifle strong enough already. At the same, DPS of Bleach assault rifle and normal assault rifle is the same? Everyone will use the bleach assault rifle if it. Watched it, great skill but not stunning evidence of a risk of the breach becoming OP. In many cases I thought you would have done better with a ACR or a Scrambler "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6619	Posted - 2014.09.04 13:53:00 - [10] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Rattatai, I suggest you look at the graph labeled 'Doc 1' here. https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B42cvyl4BvAfUDcwTFYxZnFZVHc&usp=drive_web It shows why the AScR was and still is under performing, it also shows that really the ARR could do with an optimal range nerf. While the graph you showed us at the beginning looks nice and balanced, because you are only using the effective ranges it doesn't show the full story. While I'm not necessarily this be done in time for delta, but . . . . The ACR still needs more damage. The AScR needs a lot more damage. The ARR needs a little more damage and a little less range. The Burst Rifles are to hard to judge with only 2 variants, but slope looks to steep to me. The Bursts effectively trade more damage for range than any other set of rifles. Breaches now seem pretty good to me. Tacticals are not included in this graph. Yellow is Breach Green is Assault Purple/Orange is Burst they all have very similar slopes, that you can read from the formula, more or less y=-0.02x, thanks for the input and spreadsheet "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"



CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6619	Posted - 2014.09.04 13:58:00 - [11] - Quote Mauren NOON wrote: Dmg buff for assault CR was NOT needed. Let the ACR scrubs rejoice..... Did you read the whole thing? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6663	Posted - 2014.09.04 23:20:00 - [12] - Quote JDEZ09 wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Hello again, so we have done a range pass and a dps pass on rifles before, and now that we have collected a lot of data, it's time to finetune a little our Range vs DPS correlation. I am going to share two pictures, one with the situation as it is (just for protoype for simplification) and one after Delta tweaks. The handling of weapons, kick and dispersion, in and out of zoom, is being discussed in this thread and I think we have closure on most of those tweaks. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174412&find=unread Charlie - DPS vs Effective Range vs Delta - DPS vs Effective Range The Delta tweaks are as follows 14% dmg increase of Gallente Breach Assault Rifles 2% dmg increase of Gallente Burst Assault Rifles 4% dmg increase of Assault Combat Rifles (but also increasing dispersion to counter long range accuracy) By setting the Tac AR and Scrambler Rifle at 600 ROF, those two line up rather nicely Comments welcome, these should not be contentious changes at all given the relative UP of Gallente Rifles. Rattati, I am glad to see you all went with the 600 Rof that Ratamaq and I proposed in the ScR thread. This is also great news for the plasma rifles as well. The Assault Scrambler Rifle now, is this seeing any damage boosts or anyhing to help it's current situation? The armor tanking majority is very well prepared against this weapon. If the ads burst dispersion could be tightened, or a slight dmg boost applied, then I think we will be on a good path to getting this weapon right. The AScR is a ranged preferable weapon, but imo i think that the ads Dispersion could be a little more "Lasery." A slight ADS dispersion reduction could be added to make it shine. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6926	Posted - 2014.09.11 15:47:00 - [13] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Hello again, so we have done a range pass and a dps pass on rifles before, and now that we have collected a lot of data, it's time to finetune a little our Range vs DPS correlation. I am going to share two pictures, one with the situation as it is (just for protoype for simplification) and one after Delta tweaks. The handling of weapons, kick and dispersion, in and out of zoom, is being discussed in this thread and I think we have closure on most of those tweaks. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174412&find=unread The Delta tweaks are as follows 14% dmg increase of Gallente Breach Assault Rifles 2% dmg increase of Gallente Burst Assault Rifles 4% dmg increase of Assault Combat Rifles (but also increasing dispersion to counter long range accuracy) By setting the Tac AR and Scrambler Rifle at 600 ROF, those two line up rather nicely Comments welcome, these should not be contentious changes at all given the relative UP of Gallente Rifles. Don't disagree with BrAR and BuAR changes. Why increase dispersion on ACR? It's hardly a long range weapon as things stand, you're only tickling people beyond about 45m. The change will make RRs dominate mid range engagements as well as long range ones, which is hardly balanced. 600 RPM is still too high. Only turbos can consistently achieve that RoF, and may gravitate towards TAR since they won't even need to worry about overheat then. 500 for both ScR and TAR would be better. Maybe a slight damage increase for TAR as well to account for its shorter range. The ACR is pretty damn accurate, there is no kick and a lethal ROF, basically a PP-2000 or F2000. I am not a good player and I can reliably pump headshots from quite a distance. I actually feel cheap using it. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 7015	Posted - 2014.09.13 16:22:00 - [14] - Quote Time's up, thanks everyone, this was one of the better threads we have had, so special thanks even. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"