DUST Search - Sticky:Hotfix Delta

BL4CKST4R wrote:

CCP Rattati wrote:

Grand Master Kubo wrote:

I'm not too sure about that level of increase to Gallente Breach Assault Rifles. From personal experience, the breach assault rifle is very good already. Be careful with how much buff you give it.

It will have the same DPS as the Gallente AR, after the changes. I am not too concerned, plus, very low K/S and very low usage.

Not to sure about that assault combat rifle dps buff, it will now have what looks like to be THE same dps it has before the reduction in profile which was around 440-450. I think it's dps should remain how it is now. And by comparison with that buff the Gallente AR dps feels to low now. Unless the dispersion is very high it will be pretty much just as OP as it used to be.

CCP Rattati wrote:

Cody Sietz wrote:

The number may be a little high for the breach, though I'm curious if it will make it worth using.

No changes on the assault plasma rifle? It may be the best of the bunch, but the thing is outperformed by most weapons even in its very limited intended range. I mean, it really is the only rifle to struggle vs the HMG in CQC and in short to mid range combat.

It's also getting a tweak to dispersion, and we intend to make Assault bonuses for Gallente better in the future

The Assault rifle should perform well on its on without the Gallente assaults input, at that point then you can add in a better bonus. A assault suits makes a good weapon excellent, not a bad weapon good.

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 14 post(s)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6566	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:01:00 - [1] - Quote Hello again, so we have done a range pass and a dps pass on rifles before, and now that we have collected a lot of data, it's time to finetune a little our Range vs DPS correlation. I am going to share two pictures, one with the situation as it is (just for protoype for simplification) and one after Delta tweaks. The handling of weapons, kick and dispersion, in and out of zoom, is being discussed in this thread and I think we have closure on most of those tweaks. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174412&find=unread Charlie - DPS vs Effective Range vs Delta - DPS vs Effective Range The Delta tweaks are as follows 14% dmg increase of Gallente Breach Assault Rifles 2% dmg increase of Gallente Burst Assault Rifles 4% dmg increase of Assault Combat Rifles (but also increasing dispersion to counter long range accuracy) By setting the Tac AR and Scrambler Rifle at 600 ROF, those two line up rather nicely Comments welcome, these should not be contentious changes at all given the relative UP of Gallente Rifles. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Super Sniper95 Circle of Huskarl Minmatar Republic 199	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:04:00 - [2] - Quote Hmmm it's ok :) Oh by the way, do not nerf Sniper Rifle range please :) CCP please don't reduce Sniper Rifle range. If you do it I will be sad...
Grand Master Kubo PIanet Express Top Men. 117	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:09:00 - [3] - Quote I'm not too sure about that level of increase to Gallente Breach Assault Rifles. From personal experience, the breach assault rifle is very good already. Be careful with how much buff you give it.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6567	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:19:00 - [4] - Quote Grand Master Kubo wrote: I'm not too sure about that level of increase to Gallente Breach Assault Rifles. From personal experience, the breach assault rifle is very good already. Be careful with how much buff you give it. It will have the same DPS as the Gallente AR, after the changes. I am not too concerned, plus, very low K/S and very low usage. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11962	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:55:00 - [5] - Quote Love it Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cody Sietz Evzones Public.Disorder. 3977	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:55:00 - [6] - Quote The number may be a little high for the breach, though I'm curious if it will make it worth using. No changes on the assault plasma rifle? It may be the best of the bunch, but the thing is outperformed by most weapons even in its very limited intended range. I mean, it really is the only rifle to struggle vs the HMG in CQC and in short to mid range combat. "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11962	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:56:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Grand Master Kubo wrote: I'm not too sure about that level of increase to Gallente Breach Assault Rifles. From personal experience, the breach assault rifle is very good already. Be careful with how much buff you give it. It will have the same DPS as the Gallente AR, after the changes. I am not too concerned, plus, very low K/S and very low usage. Would suggest putting it at a 11% increase. Breach is extremely accurate and has more range than Duvolle. Or you could buff my Duvolle to 35 damage :) Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Mordecai Sanguine What The French Red Whines. 720	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:06:00 - [8] - Quote Combat rifle buffed ? These are WAY more instakilling than SCR but..anyway.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6572	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:23:00 - [9] - Quote Mordecai Sanguine wrote: Combat rifle buffed ? These are WAY more instakilling than SCR but..anyway. and increased dispersion "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6572	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:24:00 - [10] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: The number may be a little high for the breach, though I'm curious if it will make it worth using. No changes on the assault plasma rifle? It may be the best of the bunch, but the thing is outperformed by most weapons even in its very limited intended range. I mean, it really is the only rifle to struggle vs the HMG in CQC and in short to mid range combat. It's also getting a tweak to dispersion, and we intend to make Assault bonuses for Gallente better in the future "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Rabbit C515 Die Valkyrja General Tso's Alliance 30	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:37:00 - [11] - Quote why nerf Scrambler rifle DPS? decrease more than a hundred ?! ScR Hipfire Kick is proposed to increase, so now this is another nerf?
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4766	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:39:00 - [12] - Quote Dammit. GG Rattati. I guess I will no longer be able to use my exploit that no one else in the game knows about. Oh well :P 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
Cody Sietz Evzones Public.Disorder. 3977	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:52:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: The number may be a little high for the breach, though I'm curious if it will make it worth using. No changes on the assault plasma rifle? It may be the best of the bunch, but the thing is outperformed by most weapons even in its very limited intended range. I mean, it really is the only rifle to struggle vs the HMG in CQC and in short to mid range combat. It's also getting a tweak to dispersion, and we intend to make Assault bonuses for Gallente better in the future Happy to hear :) "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6576	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:57:00 - [14] - Quote Rabbit C515 wrote: why nerf Scrambler rifle DPS? decrease more than a hundred ?! ScR Hipfire Kick is proposed to increase, so now this is another nerf? For tactical rifles like the TAR and Scrambler, this is theoretical maximum dps. Not sustainable dps. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

RedPencil Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 81	Posted - 2014.09.04 06:24:00 - [15] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: For tactical rifles like the TAR and Scrambler, this is theoretical maximum dps. Not sustainable dps. - You reduce SCR DPS by low down the ROF to 600, am I correct? - What else will you tweaks on SCR (dispersion, kick, heat)? Feeling, TacAR is coming back.............. Beware paper cut M[;..;]M
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox 409	Posted - 2014.09.04 06:38:00 - [16] - Quote i love how much love my breach AR is getting.... my creo breach already serves me well. but its going to be even better at doing so *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 159	Posted - 2014.09.04 07:30:00 - [17] - Quote RedPencil wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For tactical rifles like the TAR and Scrambler, this is theoretical maximum dps. Not sustainable dps. - You reduce SCR DPS by low down the ROF to 600, am I correct? - What else will you tweaks on SCR (dispersion, kick, heat)? Feeling, TacAR is coming back.............. Depends if and how much they touch the hipfire and on the tac. Not being able to hit the broad side of a barn in hip fire is the number 1 reason why its currently in the totally useless pile that only the most dense think it has any validity on a field. The opposite is true as well for the SCR, its still going to be wildly preferable to use it on a turbo but if kick and dispersion go up to current tac levels especially in hip fire mode it will be quickly put into the junk pile not to be touched except by the most foolish.
Tech De Ra Electronic Sports League 637	Posted - 2014.09.04 07:43:00 - [18] - Quote For dispersion tweaks, how big of a tweak are we talking? Prime League champion SGL Sidearm champion Fanfest '14 All star champion

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6590	Posted - 2014.09.04 08:33:00 - [19] - Quote RedPencil wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For tactical rifles like the TAR and Scrambler, this is theoretical maximum dps. Not sustainable dps. - You reduce SCR DPS by low down the ROF to 600, am I correct? - What else will you tweaks on SCR (dispersion, kick, heat)? Feeling, TacAR is coming back.............. very small increase in hip fire kick "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 159	Posted - 2014.09.04 08:51:00 - [20] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: RedPencil wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: For tactical rifles like the TAR and Scrambler, this is theoretical maximum dps. Not sustainable dps. - You reduce SCR DPS by low down the ROF to 600, am I correct? - What else will you tweaks on SCR (dispersion, kick, heat)? Feeling, TacAR is coming back.............. very small increase in hip fire kick Out of curiosity have you guys come up with the new dmg profile for projectiles? I'd suggest looking at the damage done in a clip to say a gallente heavy or amarr heavy before their resistance is factored in. Combat rifles have lower dmg per clip as a balancing act with their lopsided damage profile, swinging them to a -20/20 profile actually makes them them as bad or worse than a proposed scrambler on an armor heavy

Breakin Stuff Goonfeet Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 2528	Posted - 2014.09.04 09:27:00 - [21] - Quote I am hoping for -20/+20 because armor needs to have a damage type that brutalizes it the way scrams do shields. Explosive weapons do not qualify given that Sentinels enjoy a 25% reduction to splash damage. They will enjoy no such advantage against projectiles with the proposed profiles. Kinda like how calsent and minsent get torched by scrams.
Macchi00 LORD-BRITISH 100	Posted - 2014.09.04 10:09:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Grand Master Kubo wrote: I'm not too sure about that level of increase to Gallente Breach Assault Rifles. From personal experience, the breach assault rifle is very good already. Be careful with how much buff you give it. It will have the same DPS as the Gallente AR, after the changes. I am not too concerned, plus, very low K/S and very low usage. Buff is necessary to bleach assault rifle. However, bleach assault rifle is not bad even while the current. I think buff of 14% is too much. 5n+P8% is reasonable. I love ForgeGun. I made ForgeGun montage in YouTube. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIhuGxfbjSQ
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2996	Posted - 2014.09.04 10:12:00 - [23] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I am hoping for -20/+20 because armor needs to have a damage type that brutalizes it the way scrams do shields. Explosive weapons do not qualify given that Sentinels enjoy a 25% reduction to splash damage. They will enjoy no such advantage against projectiles with the proposed profiles. Kinda like how calsent and minsent get torched by scrams. What I don't like about the damage profile is that there is a huge list of weapons meant to kill armor, and that change is just going to add to it. The overall HP of armor suits has been reduced tremendously; to the point my gallente suits have the same or less HP than my caldari suits. And for reference this is the list of weapons: Armor: CR (20/20:15/15), rail rifle (10/10), mass driver (20/20), flay lock pistol (20/20 weapon getting fixed), smg (20/20:15/15), magsec smg (10/10), HMG (20/20:15/15), bolt pistol (10/10), and the sniper rifle (10/10) Shields: assault rifle (10/10), scrambler rifle (20/20), scrambler pistol (20/20), ion pistol (10/10), shotgun (10/10), laser rifle (20/20) As you can see there is a lot more damage going around to kill armor and barely any to kill shields, you have one weapons. That shreds shields, one weapon that murders everything, a mediocre weapon, and then 3 weapons that require a ton of skill. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 159	Posted - 2014.09.04 10:17:00 - [24] - Quote Breakin Stuff wrote: I am hoping for -20/+20 because armor needs to have a damage type that brutalizes it the way scrams do shields. Explosive weapons do not qualify given that Sentinels enjoy a 25% reduction to splash damage. They will enjoy no such advantage against projectiles with the proposed profiles. Kinda like how calsent and minsent get torched by scrams. So heres the funny. Going to a -20/20 profile actually makes use worse against an armor heavy. Lets do gallente so we can ignore the damage reduction on amarr. Gallente has 487 Base shields with skills, so lets pretend they don't use any shield extenders (lolwut I know but lets pretend). A proto CR does 29.7. So 487/(29.7*.8) gives us about 20.5 Rounds to deplete shields assuming no missing. With a bit of rounding this means we have 33.5 rounds to kill the armor. Against armor this means we will have 1343 dmg left in our clip against the heavy. This is actually tankable on proto heavy fits before we even worry adding in shield extenders. So what are the numbers today? 17 rounds to deplete shields, 1373 potential damage left in a clip. Not a big change in the world to be honest but still the damage profile works out to be less threatening against armor class/races. Now the more we add in things like shield extenders the worse it gets. Against amarr life improves some what. -20/20 Vs amarr 19 rounds to deplete shields 1247 left in clip 40.095 632.2 Today 16 Rounds to deplete 1241 damage left in clip amazing how much difference 37 shields make Realistically for an hmg heavy using the burst (theres a reason why its all the rage in pc) your best option is to actually stack shield extenders instead of the mathematically disappointing damage mods which widens the gap even further. Proto Gallente Stacking shields -20/20 26.6 rounds to deplete shields 1098 damage left Today 22.16 rounds to deplete 1182 Damage left Amarr Stacking Shields23.76 -20/20 23 rounds 1104 damage left Today 18.5 rounds, 1159 damage left The real winner of course is the caldari heavy, but when you scale this down to smaller suits I doubt anyone is really going to notice though, but no armor suit is really going to die any faster even to the premier combat rifle armor dps. If anything I can see an argument for at least adding 3-6 rounds to the CR.
BL4CKST4R La Muerte Eterna Dark Taboo 2996	Posted - 2014.09.04 10:17:00 - [25] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Grand Master Kubo wrote: I'm not too sure about that level of increase to Gallente Breach Assault Rifles. From personal experience, the breach assault rifle is very good already. Be careful with how much buff you give it. It will have the same DPS as the Gallente AR, after the changes. I am not too concerned, plus, very low K/S and very low usage. Not to sure about that assault combat rifle dps buff, it will now have what looks like to be THE same dps it has before the reduction in profile which was around 440-450. I think it's dps should remain how it is now. And by comparison with that buff the Gallente AR dps feels to low now. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
Cruor Abominare Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 159	Posted - 2014.09.04 10:28:00 - [26] - Quote BL4CKST4R wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Grand Master Kubo wrote: I'm not too sure about that level of increase to Gallente Breach Assault Rifles. From personal experience, the breach assault rifle is very good already. Be careful with how much buff you give it. It will have the same DPS as the Gallente AR, after the changes. I am not too concerned, plus, very low K/S and very low usage. Not to sure about that assault combat rifle dps buff, it will now have what looks like to be THE same dps it has before the reduction in profile which was around 440-450. I think it's dps should remain how it is now. And by comparison with that buff the Gallente AR dps feels to low now. Unless the dispersion is very high it will be pretty much just as OP as it used to be. CCP Rattati wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: The number may be a little high for the breach, though I'm curious if it will make it worth using. No changes on the assault plasma rifle? It may be the best of the bunch, but the thing is outperformed by most weapons even in its very limited intended range. I mean, it really is the only rifle to struggle vs the HMG in CQC and in short to mid range combat. It's also getting a tweak to dispersion, and we intend to make Assault bonuses for Gallente better in the future The Assault rifle should perform well on its on without the Gallente assaults input, at that point then you can add in a better bonus. A assault suits makes a good weapon excellent, not a bad weapon good. Because of the nature of how this game plays (moar hipfire) any adjustments even minute because of the scale of accuracy ratings can wildly swing the effectiveness of a weapon. Lots of players simply over use ads to begin with, hipfire is so damn important in this game.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3451	Posted - 2014.09.04 10:31:00 - [27] - Quote Very good, however I would suggest just 10% more hipfire dispersion on the scrambler. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6604	Posted - 2014.09.04 10:33:00 - [28] - Quote Monkey MAC wrote: Very good, however I would suggest just 10% more hipfire dispersion on the scrambler. Small steps :) "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

MINA Longstrike Kirjuun Heiian 1260	Posted - 2014.09.04 10:48:00 - [29] - Quote Is it possible to jump standard assault rifle range up by a few meters? Their optimal competes directly with HMG's, leaving them in a slightly undesireable position, as you either want a HMG for its short range damage or any other weapon for their range. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3451	Posted - 2014.09.04 10:51:00 - [30] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Monkey MAC wrote: Very good, however I would suggest just 10% more hipfire dispersion on the scrambler. Small steps :) Fair Enough, would you be able to modify the graph to show the ACTUAL DPS of the 2 burst variants? That's to say their max achievable including delay? Allotek Burst Rifle: 429 Boundless Combat Rifle: 415 If my calcs are correct. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3



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