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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3367
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
I just realized..today...that the gallente has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi????
> Check RND out here
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IMMORTAL WAR HERO
NECROM0NGERS
199
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:39:00 -
[2] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi????
lol im scout ck i didnt even notice as i no longer care what i use since ccp doesnt lol
Frowned upon by amateurs: The object of war is not to die for your country but make the other bastard die for his. GSP
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13192
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:39:00 -
[3] - Quote
Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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medomai grey
warravens
Capital Punishment.
954
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:44:00 -
[4] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower?
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3367
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets.
There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi.
Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster?
> Check RND out here
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
580
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets.
I don't think I understand this statement, do you mean they don't have sprinting upgrades? They also don't have armor plates weighing them down (At least not the proper Caldari suits) so I am not sure what you mean. Typically the Caldari are only beat out in natural speed (Not kincat sprinting buffs) by Minmitar... hardly "notoriously slow."
Stick to Amarr brick tanking, and let the other roles define themselves, not every suit is meant to brick tank. |
True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:51:00 -
[7] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower?
Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1385
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:51:00 -
[8] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi????
It's like how Bowser and Donkey Kong Jr. have the highest top speed in Super Mario Kart. Once all that weight gets moving it just keeps picking up momentum.
We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
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Hakyou Brutor
Pure Evil.
1220
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:54:00 -
[9] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster?
Gunnlogi gets far more maneuverability. |
TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
580
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:54:00 -
[10] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones.
Oh you are talking Eve.... From everything I have been told of Eve Dust is clearly not Eve in how the ground infantry were designed. And honestly why would it be? Why would your spaceships behave the same as your ground forces? Why would a MIG be slow like a Russian Tank when speed is critical to a jet fighters combat effectiveness? Why do Eve players not into strategy? I thought Eve players were supposed to be all about strategy. |
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medomai grey
warravens
Capital Punishment.
954
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:56:00 -
[11] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. But the Caldari tank has less base EHP than the Gallente tank while also being slower. The point being made is, why should players use Caldari tanks when Gallente tanks are faster and have more EHP.
What percentile of Dust514's infantry arsenal belongs to the category of machine guns?
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LEHON Xeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries
689
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:58:00 -
[12] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi????
It never made much sense to me either, but I've known about it for a long time. I would rather have it on the Caldari suit instead. It does make no sense for the Gallente to have it though. Caldari is supposed to be more e-war based, it should have some precision and the enormous range, henceforth reflecting the radar bonuses, i.e. e-war.
Perhaps, CCP's logic was that they wanted all scout suits to have double abilities, so Caldari has dampening/range. Gallente is precision/dampening, Minja is knives/hacking, and Amarr is stamina/precision. If Caldari was still precision/range, Gallente would be left with nothing but double dampening bonus.
Why am I still here yet?
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
580
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Posted - 2014.09.04 03:59:00 -
[13] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. But the Caldari tank has less base EHP than the Gallente tank while also being slower. The point being made is, why should players use Caldari tanks when Gallente tanks are faster and have more EHP.
Again, it has no relevance as to what Eve is doing, but in the context of Dust Caldari vehicles have lower top speeds but greater acceleration. Why would you want a Gunnlogi? Because it can turn corners faster which is pretty important. Although Madrugars can get fast when moving in a straight line, the amount of time that takes the Madrugar to reach that superior speed is likely to get annihilated by the other teams red line turrets as it will have pushed too far too fast in most cases. That or it has to pop some injectors which don't last long and can equally push it into over extension. Likewise you can fit them on a Gunnlogi as well to about perform the same while still being highly maneuverable when its on cool down. I've lost many a Madrugar to just not being able to accelerate out of trouble.
Edit: I'm not saying Madrugars are useless of course only that both have their place, Madrugars have higher E/hp and can achieve higher speeds but the Gunnlogi does have greater maneuverability. |
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:08:00 -
[14] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones.
How does that apply to Dust? We don't have any drones
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:10:00 -
[15] - Quote
LEHON Xeon wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi???? It never made much sense to me either, but I've known about it for a long time. I would rather have it on the Caldari suit instead. It does make no sense for the Gallente to have it though. Caldari is supposed to be more e-war based, it should have some precision and the enormous range, henceforth reflecting the radar bonuses, i.e. e-war. Perhaps, CCP's logic was that they wanted all scout suits to have double abilities, so Caldari has dampening/range. Gallente is precision/dampening, Minja is knives/hacking, and Amarr is stamina/precision. If Caldari was still precision/range, Gallente would be left with nothing but double dampening bonus.
they could give Gallente something else like range
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:12:00 -
[16] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. But the Caldari tank has less base EHP than the Gallente tank while also being slower. The point being made is, why should players use Caldari tanks when Gallente tanks are faster and have more EHP.
Really?
All Gal Tanks have over Caldari Tanks is reps. They most certainly do not have more EHP.
5300 Shield *1.4 = 7420 (modified my regen) + 1500 Armour = 8920
Not to mention the flexibility of mounting 2 ADV Rail Turrets and a Prototype Missile Turret. Enabling you to effectively mount 3 players in a Gunlogi like this and never have issues with any enemy tank on field through sheer DPS and endurance. Has fair mobility, great tracking, and av top speed.
On the other hand you can barely fit a prototype turret, basic module Armour tank, and can't if ever fit small turrets for enhanced DPS.
Best tank from a Madrugar is (though I can buffer tank an HAV to around 10K EHP with no reps if I stack plates)
4000 Armour *1.25 = 5000 Armour (modified my reps) = 1200 = 6200
No small turrets or better modules than a ADV hardener, Proto Repper, and Adv repper..... due to lack of CPU and the inability to mod it out to expand your fitting capacity without reducing your tank.
So here you compare a modularly superior and more flexible HAV with vastly more fire power (the Gunlogi) designed to be used solo (with the potential for more EHP) and in a squad vs a tank that is effectually designed to be played solo with most of the AV and Vehicle Turrets weapons in the game having bonus damage against it. Additionally has less mobility and can only beat out the Gunlogi is straight sprints.
Who would complain about Shield HAV?
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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LEHON Xeon
Ahrendee Mercenaries
690
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:LEHON Xeon wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi???? It never made much sense to me either, but I've known about it for a long time. I would rather have it on the Caldari suit instead. It does make no sense for the Gallente to have it though. Caldari is supposed to be more e-war based, it should have some precision and the enormous range, henceforth reflecting the radar bonuses, i.e. e-war. Perhaps, CCP's logic was that they wanted all scout suits to have double abilities, so Caldari has dampening/range. Gallente is precision/dampening, Minja is knives/hacking, and Amarr is stamina/precision. If Caldari was still precision/range, Gallente would be left with nothing but double dampening bonus. they could give Gallente something else like range
I suppose so. I know the way it is currently, it's pretty crazy. I just run the Gallente scout in matches with double precisions and there is almost nothing that gets by me except other dampened Gallente suits. Combine those precisions with a dampener and you don't get seen either by about 90% of people.
Why am I still here yet?
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:14:00 -
[18] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. But the Caldari tank has less base EHP than the Gallente tank while also being slower. The point being made is, why should players use Caldari tanks when Gallente tanks are faster and have more EHP. Again, it has no relevance as to what Eve is doing, but in the context of Dust Caldari vehicles have lower top speeds but greater acceleration. Why would you want a Gunnlogi? Because it can turn corners faster which is pretty important. Although Madrugars can get fast when moving in a straight line, the amount of time that takes the Madrugar to reach that superior speed is likely to get annihilated by the other teams red line turrets as it will have pushed too far too fast in most cases. That or it has to pop some injectors which don't last long and can equally push it into over extension. Likewise you can fit them on a Gunnlogi as well to about perform the same while still being highly maneuverable when its on cool down. I've lost many a Madrugar to just not being able to accelerate out of trouble. Edit: I'm not saying Madrugars are useless of course only that both have their place, Madrugars have higher E/hp and can achieve higher speeds but the Gunnlogi does have greater maneuverability.
So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector.
Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:19:00 -
[19] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. But the Caldari tank has less base EHP than the Gallente tank while also being slower. The point being made is, why should players use Caldari tanks when Gallente tanks are faster and have more EHP. Really? All Gal Tanks have over Caldari Tanks is reps. They most certainly do not have more EHP. 5300 Shield *1.4 = 7420 (modified my regen) + 1500 Armour = 8920 Not to mention the flexibility of mounting 2 ADV Rail Turrets and a Prototype Missile Turret. Enabling you to effectively mount 3 players in a Gunlogi like this and never have issues with any enemy tank on field through sheer DPS and endurance. Has fair mobility, great tracking, and av top speed. On the other hand you can barely fit a prototype turret, basic module Armour tank, and can't if ever fit small turrets for enhanced DPS. Best tank from a Madrugar is 4000 Armour *1.25 = 5000 Armour (modified my reps) = 1200 = 6200 No small turrets or better modules than a ADV hardener, Proto Repper, and Adv repper..... due to lack of CPU and the inability to mod it out to expand your fitting capacity without reducing your tank. So here you compare a modularly superior and more flexible HAV with vastly more fire power (the Gunlogi) designed to be used solo (with the potential for more EHP) and in a squad vs a tank that is effectually designed to be played solo with most of the AV and Vehicle Turrets weapons in the game having bonus damage against it. Additionally has less mobility and can only beat out the Gunlogi is straight sprints. Who would complain about Shield HAV?
I'm trying to understand your "regen modification" but I can't. We are talking about base hp:
Gunnlogi = 2500hp + 1500hp = 4000hp total
Madrugar = 1200hp + 4000hp = 5200hp total
I would say that difference is significant. You are adding shield extenders to the gunnlogi in your example but not armor plates for the madrugar.
And you're talking about Missile tanks........NOTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster turret 1v1. The only way to kill it is to sneak up on it and hope that all of your shots get in before they have a chance to react.
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13192
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:19:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. How does that apply to Dust? We don't have any drones
Pointing out that players denying the traditional root of Dust, New Eden and EVE (the successful half of the franchise) is foolish. You either want a game set in New Eden, therefore the established rules and racial trends of EVE races are followed closesly, or you do not, and you can ignore them.
But don' t pretend like the current iterations of the vehicles accurately reflect their races combat doctrines.
Fitting out an HAV should be the same as fitting out a frigate module wise.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
581
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:19:00 -
[21] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector.
Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff
It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary. |
True Adamance
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I'm trying to understand your "regen modification" but I can't. We are talking about base hp:
Gunnlogi = 2500hp + 1500hp = 4000hp total
Madrugar = 1200hp + 4000hp = 5200hp total
I would say that difference is significant. You are adding shield extenders to the gunnlogi in your example but not armor plates for the madrugar.
And you're talking about Missile tanks........NOTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster turret 1v1.
Why have you not accouted for optimised fittings. You are choosing base hulls and telling me that you believe that is an accurate indicator of which tank to pick?
I mention the regen modifier because it affects EHP, however I do not have the mathematical bent to work out the effect that armour reps have on EHP.
As for the Blaster thing? Really? You can't either blap them as they approach or have the durability on your HAV to last the..... less than 10 second reload speed (with skills)?
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:23:00 -
[23] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. How does that apply to Dust? We don't have any drones Pointing out that players denying the traditional root of Dust, New Eden and EVE (the successful half of the franchise) is foolish. You either want a game set in New Eden, therefore the established rules and racial trends of EVE races are followed closesly, or you do not, and you can ignore them. But don' t pretend like the current iterations of the vehicles accurately reflect their races combat doctrines. Fitting out an HAV should be the same as fitting out a frigate module wise.
The successful half of the franchise....congrats...because these games barely affect one another. But if you're going to talk consistency then let the same rule apply to dropsuits as well. Gallente suits should be faster than caldari suits but they aren't. What about ADS? Is there a speed difference in shield and armor dropships?
> Check RND out here
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
581
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:23:00 -
[24] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. How does that apply to Dust? We don't have any drones Pointing out that players denying the traditional root of Dust, New Eden and EVE (the successful half of the franchise) is foolish. You either want a game set in New Eden, therefore the established rules and racial trends of EVE races are followed closesly, or you do not, and you can ignore them. But don' t pretend like the current iterations of the vehicles accurately reflect their races combat doctrines. Fitting out an HAV should be the same as fitting out a frigate module wise.
Because that's how combined arms wars are fought in the real world. Everyone knows that a military doctrine is uniform and racially specific according to their nationality.
Navies employ the same tactics that Armies employ based upon nationality and not on efficiency /sarcasm.
I get it man, you are a well established lore nerd for Eve. CCP didn't make this game about floating dropsuits that point and click to fire mah guns. It's not the same game and it will never be the same game. Every really wonky ****** up thing i've seen implemented especially when it comes to skill bonuses has been because people bitched that "Eve does it like this!" And all it does is bring changes no one really wanted to satisfy some lore nerds and further imbalance the game until Rattatai undoes the boo boos. |
True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13192
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:26:00 -
[25] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
The successful half of the franchise....congrats...because these games barely affect one another. But if you're going to talk consistency then let the same rule apply to dropsuits as well. Gallente suits should be faster than caldari suits but they aren't. What about ADS? Is there a speed difference in shield and armor dropships?
I don't see why they don't already follow the racial combat doctrines? It's a design flaw that never truly made sense to me. Also give that we do have gravity to contend with perhaps the racial roles in terms of mobility should be inverted?
Who knows. Perhaps that was the original intent.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
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Posted - 2014.09.04 04:26:00 -
[26] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I'm trying to understand your "regen modification" but I can't. We are talking about base hp:
Gunnlogi = 2500hp + 1500hp = 4000hp total
Madrugar = 1200hp + 4000hp = 5200hp total
I would say that difference is significant. You are adding shield extenders to the gunnlogi in your example but not armor plates for the madrugar.
And you're talking about Missile tanks........NOTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster turret 1v1.
Why have you not accouted for optimised fittings. You are choosing base hulls and telling me that you believe that is an accurate indicator of which tank to pick? I mention the regen modifier because it affects EHP, however I do not have the mathematical bent to work out the effect that armour reps have on EHP. As for the Blaster thing? Really? You can't either blap them as they approach or have the durability on your HAV to last the..... less than 10 second reload speed (with skills)?
If you would like to talk about optimised fittings....then it's worse because shield tankers aren't using 3 extenders all of the time. Most of the time, you'll see 2500 hp/2515 hp. Some guys may use one extender to bring it up to 3700hp. But most of the time, shield tankers are using other mods in their high slots instead of extenders.
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:28:00 -
[27] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
The successful half of the franchise....congrats...because these games barely affect one another. But if you're going to talk consistency then let the same rule apply to dropsuits as well. Gallente suits should be faster than caldari suits but they aren't. What about ADS? Is there a speed difference in shield and armor dropships?
I don't see why they don't already follow the racial combat doctrines? It's a design flaw that never truly made sense to me. Also give that we do have gravity to contend with perhaps the racial roles in terms of mobility should be inverted? Who knows. Perhaps that was the original intent.
Original intent.....right....which is why it's not always great to bring in spaceships/mmo/pc platform and compare it to or use as a reference for fps/console platform
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13198
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:31:00 -
[28] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:
*Denies the balanced and successful half of the game in favour or community regulated bullshit we have now .
Coolio bro..... but I think you are simplifying EVE far too much..... Point and click? What about orbits and transversals? Active Module activation, ammo switching, kiting and range, drone control, manoeuvring (use of orbital bodies and way points)?
All I am saying is that the question was raised "why are Caldari tanks slower than Gallente tanks" answer is "who knows what CCP Shanghai is thinking. However traditionally Caldari things are relatively slow."
Then the assumption was made that Cal tanks have less EHP which is often times wholly untrue. However Caldari tanks are active tanks, they trade long term durability for short term power.
I mean given the Protofits site allows me to have and 11k EHP Gunlogi..........
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:31:00 -
[29] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector.
Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff
It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary.
It is easier to maneuver them.....sure but it is moot when you're fighting a fuel injected maddy with a blaster turret. They have more health, faster, and mods are better.
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13198
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:35:00 -
[30] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector.
Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff
It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary. It is easier to maneuver them.....sure but it is moot when you're fighting a fuel injected maddy with a blaster turret. They have more health, faster, and mods are better.
NO THEY DON'T HAVE MORE EHP, unless the two repairers contribute 3000EHP over the duration of the fight, which they very well might.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
968
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:36:00 -
[31] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster?
try playing eve.
gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part.
its part of their racial theme.
when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:37:00 -
[32] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector.
Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff
It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary. It is easier to maneuver them.....sure but it is moot when you're fighting a fuel injected maddy with a blaster turret. They have more health, faster, and mods are better. NO THEY DON'T HAVE MORE EHP, unless the two repairers contribute 3000EHP over the duration of the fight, which they very well might.
I'm trying to understand how you can say that a madrugar doesn't have more hp than a gunnlogi
> Check RND out here
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:38:00 -
[33] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector.
Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff
It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary. It is easier to maneuver them.....sure but it is moot when you're fighting a fuel injected maddy with a blaster turret. They have more health, faster, and mods are better. NO THEY DON'T HAVE MORE EHP, unless the two repairers contribute 3000EHP over the duration of the fight, which they very well might.
you have to speak slower, Ydubbs doesnt understand the different between rHP and eHP.
Assault since Replication.
We've come full circle.
Finally.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:39:00 -
[34] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? try playing eve. gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part. its call racial playstyle. when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast.
try playing Streetfighter
Ken is faster but Ryu is stronger
(you get my point?)
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13198
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:40:00 -
[35] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? try playing eve. gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part. its call racial playstyle. when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast. try playing Streetfighter Ken is faster but Ryu is stronger (you get my point?)
So you would say.
"Hey next street fighter game lets have Ken be stronger and Ryu be faster. It might wholly go against the premise of the characters and the X years of history this franchise has put forwards but hell what the **** do we care if the characters are not done justice."
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:42:00 -
[36] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:
It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary.
It is easier to maneuver them.....sure but it is moot when you're fighting a fuel injected maddy with a blaster turret. They have more health, faster, and mods are better. NO THEY DON'T HAVE MORE EHP, unless the two repairers contribute 3000EHP over the duration of the fight, which they very well might. you have to speak slower, Ydubbs doesnt understand the different between rHP and eHP. Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi
he has been, youre not listening
take regen, resists, range, rofs and 'true' or 'optimized' fittings into account and you might actually learn something instead of sperging about.
Assault since Replication.
We've come full circle.
Finally.
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
968
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:42:00 -
[37] - Quote
also id take maneuverability and acceleration over top speed and hp anyday if the controls had a dedicated break/reverse/accelerate button.
tanks are unusable to me in dust because they drive like washing machines. you cant even turn left and right in them because when you rotate the stick halfway they get stuck between turning left and right and you just wiggle in place for a second. in bf you can just pop out from behind a house, pop someone and throw it in reverse like hide and seek and get back behind the house to reposition. when i get stuck turning or clipping on objects on the map its gets me killed. the tanks arent responsive and clunky.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
829
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:43:00 -
[38] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:also id take maneuverability and acceleration over top speed and hp anyday if the controls had a dedicated break/reverse/accelerate button.
tanks are unusable to me in dust because they drive like washing machines. you cant even turn left and right in them because when you rotate the stick halfway they get stuck between turning left and right and you just wiggle in place for a second. in bf you can just pop out from behind a house, pop someone and throw it in reverse like hide and seek and get back behind the house to reposition. when i get stuck turning or clipping on objects on the map its gets me killed. the tanks arent responsive and clunky.
Kbm dude, you can drive a cal tank like what a min lav should be, jesus mode for hit and run.,
Assault since Replication.
We've come full circle.
Finally.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:45:00 -
[39] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? try playing eve. gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part. its call racial playstyle. when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast. try playing Streetfighter Ken is faster but Ryu is stronger (you get my point?) So you would say. "Hey next street fighter game lets have Ken be stronger and Ryu be faster. It might wholly go against the premise of the characters and the X years of history this franchise has put forwards but hell what the **** do we care if the characters are not done justice."
Analogy doesn't apply because we aren't saying, "Hey next Eve game..."
Maybe if Dust had spaceships, then you can take it there. But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc)
> Check RND out here
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Kaze Eyrou
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
576
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:48:00 -
[40] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi????
That's..... that's four questions.....
Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
830
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc)
We have been saying that since day fcking one.
People such as yourself have been clamouring for a different game the entire time.
Just stop.
Assault since Replication.
We've come full circle.
Finally.
|
Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:51:00 -
[42] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi
he has been, youre not listening take regen, resists, range, rofs and 'true' or 'optimized' fittings into account and you might actually learn something instead of sperging about.
Ok, let's talk regen and resists.....
Armor mods rep instaneously as opposed to shield regen which has a few seconds delay before it starts up.
I can't remember exact % of resistance but i do remember that armor hardeners last longer than shield hardeners.
Since armor mods rep instanteously, you can gain some health in between shots. But shield regen isn't fast enough to help you in a 1v1. So....again....explain to me how the madrugar's ehp is lower than a gunnlogis'?
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13198
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:53:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi
Lets take two sets of fits
Standard Hulls
Gunlogi
2650 Shield 1500 Armour = 4150
Madrugar
1200 Shields 4000 Armou = 5200
This is reflective of their total HP. These values are not modified by any modules.
Now lets take two more optimised fits that I would use.
Gunlogi
2x Complex Shield Extenders
1x Advanaced Shield Hardener
1x Complex PG Upgrade
1x ADV 120mm Plates
1x XT-201
2x Partical Accelerator
(Yes I can fit all of this on with maxed skills)
5300 Shields 2950 Armour = 8250 HP (not yet modified by the Shield Hardener) means this is rHP (real HP)
5300 x 1.4 = 7420 Shields + 2950 Armour = 10370 EHP (effective HP)
Madrugar
1x Neutron Blasters
2x Complex Heavy Armour Reppers
1x Basic Armour Hardener
1x Nitrous Injector
0x Small Turrets
(this is all I can fit as CPU is too tight)
1200 Shields 4000 Armour = 5200 rHP
1200 Shields 4000 Armour (modified by the 275 reps per second) = X HP or the correct EHP
or you can try to buffer tank a madrugar
3x 120mm plates (2x 120mm 1x 60mm)
1x Nitrous
1x Ion Cannon
1200 Shields 8454 Armour = 9654
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc)
We have been saying that since day fcking one. People such as yourself have been clamouring for a different game the entire time. Just stop.
Because it is a different game. Either way...it doesn't matter to me because it's all numbers. But it should be consistent and I don't necessarily mean consistent with eve. It should be consistent in Dust. If armor gear is faster than shield gear, then it should apply to dropsuits as well as tanks.
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13198
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:57:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi
he has been, youre not listening take regen, resists, range, rofs and 'true' or 'optimized' fittings into account and you might actually learn something instead of sperging about. Ok, let's talk regen and resists..... Armor mods rep instaneously as opposed to shield regen which has a few seconds delay before it starts up. I can't remember exact % of resistance but i do remember that armor hardeners last longer than shield hardeners. Since armor mods rep instanteously, you can gain some health in between shots. But shield regen isn't fast enough to help you in a 1v1. So....again....explain to me how the madrugar's ehp is lower than a gunnlogis'?
It's basically down to duration of a fight.
Over time the Maddy become more powerful as its reps have extended EHP significantly more than its total HP.
However Shield HAV trades duration of combat effectiveness for short term effectiveness. Now personally I'd never take a Blaster Gunlogi against a Blaster Maddy since the blaster game is about how long you can survive and manage heat, in a blaster on blaster fight the Maddy has a clear advantage. Any other turret (even again a Blaster maddy) and the Gunlogi has the advantage. By being able to pump out alpha or DPS (railgun or Missiles) not to mention being more modular and allowing for a full compliment of Gunners to add their DPS to the fight.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13200
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 04:59:00 -
[46] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc)
We have been saying that since day fcking one. People such as yourself have been clamouring for a different game the entire time. Just stop. Because it is a different game. Either way...it doesn't matter to me because it's all numbers. But it should be consistent and I don't necessarily mean consistent with eve. It should be consistent in Dust. If armor gear is faster than shield gear, then it should apply to dropsuits as well as tanks.
* face palm.
You exist IN NEW EDEN!
THE SAME PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE SPACESHIPS AND TURRETS MAKE YOUR DROPSUITS AND WEAPONS......
The same design philosophies should apply to both.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
831
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 05:00:00 -
[47] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc)
We have been saying that since day fcking one. People such as yourself have been clamouring for a different game the entire time. Just stop. Because it is a different game. Either way...it doesn't matter to me because it's all numbers. But it should be consistent and I don't necessarily mean consistent with eve. It should be consistent in Dust. If armor gear is faster than shield gear, then it should apply to dropsuits as well as tanks.
you CAN NOT make a game set in the same make believe land DIFFERENT because it undercuts all lore/mechanics blah ******* blah blahs of both games.
But thats what they did.
instead of following doctrines and principles well established in the giant space tactical spreadsheet game of eve, they continuously listening to the mewlings of console shooters who wanted it more twichty, more indescript, more rehash of everything else.
You won, and us who came here to play eves battlefields lost.
and now we re recanting the tale and youre arguing?
i dont ******* understand you!
Assault since Replication.
We've come full circle.
Finally.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 05:05:00 -
[48] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi
Lets take two sets of fits Standard Hulls Gunlogi 2650 Shield 1500 Armour = 4150 Madrugar 1200 Shields 4000 Armou = 5200 This is reflective of their total HP. These values are not modified by any modules. Now lets take two more optimised fits that I would use. Gunlogi 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Advanaced Shield Hardener 1x Complex PG Upgrade 1x ADV 120mm Plates 1x XT-201 2x Partical Accelerator (Yes I can fit all of this on with maxed skills) 5300 Shields 2950 Armour = 8250 HP (not yet modified by the Shield Hardener) means this is rHP (real HP) 5300 x 1.4 = 7420 Shields + 2950 Armour = 10370 EHP (effective HP) Madrugar 1x Neutron Blasters 2x Complex Heavy Armour Reppers 1x Basic Armour Hardener 1x Nitrous Injector 0x Small Turrets (this is all I can fit as CPU is too tight) 1200 Shields 4000 Armour = 5200 rHP 1200 Shields 4000 Armour (modified by the 275 reps per second) = X HP or the correct EHP or you can try to buffer tank a madrugar 3x 120mm plates (2x 120mm 1x 60mm) 1x Nitrous 1x Ion Cannon 1200 Shields 8454 Armour = 9654
Thank you for speaking slow enough for me :)
Now, I just want to be practical (going from what I've seen on the field and not just numbers). If you're in a 1v1 with a maddy and you have a railgun...you're going to get smoked. Especially with that fit that you displayed because you'll probably need maybe 5 or 6 shots to take it down once their hardeners are on and you have an advanced turret with no damage mods.
If the fight lasts long enough, their armor hardeners will outlast your shield hardeners and couple with the armor reps it will chew through all of that hp. While your rail is reloading, overheated, or if you pause in between shots...their tank is repping armor at 275hp per sec. At the same time, they are doing constant damage to your shields so your shields will never have enough delay to regen.
Couple all of that with a fuel injector and speed for the maddy....it's over. Now, if the maddy wasn't as fast, it may be easier to deal with in 1v1 situations.
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13200
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 05:06:00 -
[49] - Quote
As much as I lament that the original ideal of Dust was corrupted........ I really am just here to point out how good Caldari Tanks are.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 05:13:00 -
[50] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc)
We have been saying that since day fcking one. People such as yourself have been clamouring for a different game the entire time. Just stop. Because it is a different game. Either way...it doesn't matter to me because it's all numbers. But it should be consistent and I don't necessarily mean consistent with eve. It should be consistent in Dust. If armor gear is faster than shield gear, then it should apply to dropsuits as well as tanks. you CAN NOT make a game set in the same make believe land DIFFERENT because it undercuts all lore/mechanics blah ******* blah blahs of both games. But thats what they did. instead of following doctrines and principles well established in the giant space tactical spreadsheet game of eve, they continuously listening to the mewlings of console shooters who wanted it more twichty, more indescript, more rehash of everything else. You won, and us who came here to play eves battlefields lost. and now we re recanting the tale and youre arguing? i dont ******* understand you!
What is your point? Talking with eve fanboys is hard sometimes because you guys are laser focused just like CCP and just as clueless.
I don't even care if the races are the same in eve and dust. My point is that in Dust it should be consistent. If you guys wanted armor gear to be faster than shield gear, then that's fine. It could have been like that from day one but then it needs to be consistent in Dust. Gallente dropsuits should have been faster than Caldari dropsuits and should apply to tanks, weapons, lavs, dropships, etc.
But if you remember...type I suits were slower than type II shield suits. CCP modified it to where they have the same speed and even amarr is slowest.
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13200
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Posted - 2014.09.04 05:14:00 -
[51] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi
Lets take two sets of fits Standard Hulls Gunlogi 2650 Shield 1500 Armour = 4150 Madrugar 1200 Shields 4000 Armou = 5200 This is reflective of their total HP. These values are not modified by any modules. Now lets take two more optimised fits that I would use. Gunlogi 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Advanaced Shield Hardener 1x Complex PG Upgrade 1x ADV 120mm Plates 1x XT-201 2x Partical Accelerator (Yes I can fit all of this on with maxed skills) 5300 Shields 2950 Armour = 8250 HP (not yet modified by the Shield Hardener) means this is rHP (real HP) 5300 x 1.4 = 7420 Shields + 2950 Armour = 10370 EHP (effective HP) Madrugar 1x Neutron Blasters 2x Complex Heavy Armour Reppers 1x Basic Armour Hardener 1x Nitrous Injector 0x Small Turrets (this is all I can fit as CPU is too tight) 1200 Shields 4000 Armour = 5200 rHP 1200 Shields 4000 Armour (modified by the 275 reps per second) = X HP or the correct EHP or you can try to buffer tank a madrugar 3x 120mm plates (2x 120mm 1x 60mm) 1x Nitrous 1x Ion Cannon 1200 Shields 8454 Armour = 9654 Thank you for speaking slow enough for me :) Now, I just want to be practical (going from what I've seen on the field and not just numbers). If you're in a 1v1 with a maddy and you have a railgun...you're going to get smoked. Especially with that fit that you displayed because you'll probably need maybe 5 or 6 shots to take it down once their hardeners are on and you have an advanced turret with no damage mods. If the fight lasts long enough, their armor hardeners will outlast your shield hardeners and couple with the armor reps it will chew through all of that hp. While your rail is reloading, overheated, or if you pause in between shots...their tank is repping armor at 275hp per sec. At the same time, they are doing constant damage to your shields so your shields will never have enough delay to regen. Couple all of that with a fuel injector and speed for the maddy....it's over. Now, if the maddy wasn't as fast, it may be easier to deal with in 1v1 situations.
Which is why you cannot play a Gunlogi like a Maddy.
You cannot treat and engagement the same way. For example....brawling with a Blaster tank while in a rail is always stupid without damage mods to alpha through those reps + hardener.
However the point is you said Gunlogis don't have EHP = to Armour tanks...... on paper they do, and its because of that shield tanks are the ultimate IMO for anti Tank combat.
Great manoeuvrability, more modular (aka you can fit them out more specifically), can take any turret type.
Now if you compared those two HAV fits in their prime. Maddy is a tough fight. But combined DPS , while 2x ADV rail guns break the reps and hardener of the Armour tank means you will come out on top every time.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
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Posted - 2014.09.04 05:15:00 -
[52] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:As much as I lament that the original ideal of Dust was corrupted........ I really am just here to point out how good Caldari Tanks are.
Everything is "good" in their own way. But when you put them against each other on the battlefield...that's where you see superiority.
Every gear, weapon, etc shouldn't have a clear advantage over another. They should fit the playerstyle of the player and that would determine the victor.
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13200
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 05:18:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:As much as I lament that the original ideal of Dust was corrupted........ I really am just here to point out how good Caldari Tanks are. Everything is "good" in their own way. But when you put them against each other on the battlefield...that's where you see superiority. Every gear, weapon, etc shouldn't have a clear advantage over another. They should fit the playerstyle of the player and that would determine the victor.
In my mind Caldari tanks are vastly superior.
For the reasons I have stated but also because its a better anti infantry platform.....seriously try leaving the hardener on that fit on and manning a small turret....... ignores AV......gets +5 kills.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
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Posted - 2014.09.04 05:18:00 -
[54] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi
Lets take two sets of fits Standard Hulls Gunlogi 2650 Shield 1500 Armour = 4150 Madrugar 1200 Shields 4000 Armou = 5200 This is reflective of their total HP. These values are not modified by any modules. Now lets take two more optimised fits that I would use. Gunlogi 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Advanaced Shield Hardener 1x Complex PG Upgrade 1x ADV 120mm Plates 1x XT-201 2x Partical Accelerator (Yes I can fit all of this on with maxed skills) 5300 Shields 2950 Armour = 8250 HP (not yet modified by the Shield Hardener) means this is rHP (real HP) 5300 x 1.4 = 7420 Shields + 2950 Armour = 10370 EHP (effective HP) Madrugar 1x Neutron Blasters 2x Complex Heavy Armour Reppers 1x Basic Armour Hardener 1x Nitrous Injector 0x Small Turrets (this is all I can fit as CPU is too tight) 1200 Shields 4000 Armour = 5200 rHP 1200 Shields 4000 Armour (modified by the 275 reps per second) = X HP or the correct EHP or you can try to buffer tank a madrugar 3x 120mm plates (2x 120mm 1x 60mm) 1x Nitrous 1x Ion Cannon 1200 Shields 8454 Armour = 9654 Thank you for speaking slow enough for me :) Now, I just want to be practical (going from what I've seen on the field and not just numbers). If you're in a 1v1 with a maddy and you have a railgun...you're going to get smoked. Especially with that fit that you displayed because you'll probably need maybe 5 or 6 shots to take it down once their hardeners are on and you have an advanced turret with no damage mods. If the fight lasts long enough, their armor hardeners will outlast your shield hardeners and couple with the armor reps it will chew through all of that hp. While your rail is reloading, overheated, or if you pause in between shots...their tank is repping armor at 275hp per sec. At the same time, they are doing constant damage to your shields so your shields will never have enough delay to regen. Couple all of that with a fuel injector and speed for the maddy....it's over. Now, if the maddy wasn't as fast, it may be easier to deal with in 1v1 situations. Which is why you cannot play a Gunlogi like a Maddy. You cannot treat and engagement the same way. For example....brawling with a Blaster tank while in a rail is always stupid without damage mods to alpha through those reps + hardener. However the point is you said Gunlogis don't have EHP = to Armour tanks...... on paper they do, and its because of that shield tanks are the ultimate IMO for anti Tank combat. Great manoeuvrability, more modular (aka you can fit them out more specifically), can take any turret type. Now if you compared those two HAV fits in their prime. Maddy is a tough fight. But combined DPS , while 2x ADV rail guns break the reps and hardener of the Armour tank means you will come out on top every time.
I wouldn't engage a maddy like that but unless you're a redline rail tanker.....you may get caught in that situation just for being on the field.
If you play a maddy how you're supposed to..then it doesn't matter how much ehp you have. You have to flank and get them with all of your shots before they can react to run or fight back. All of those shields, etc matters if you're facing another gunnlogi rail.
> Check RND out here
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13200
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 05:20:00 -
[55] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi
Lets take two sets of fits Standard Hulls Gunlogi 2650 Shield 1500 Armour = 4150 Madrugar 1200 Shields 4000 Armou = 5200 This is reflective of their total HP. These values are not modified by any modules. Now lets take two more optimised fits that I would use. Gunlogi 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Advanaced Shield Hardener 1x Complex PG Upgrade 1x ADV 120mm Plates 1x XT-201 2x Partical Accelerator (Yes I can fit all of this on with maxed skills) 5300 Shields 2950 Armour = 8250 HP (not yet modified by the Shield Hardener) means this is rHP (real HP) 5300 x 1.4 = 7420 Shields + 2950 Armour = 10370 EHP (effective HP) Madrugar 1x Neutron Blasters 2x Complex Heavy Armour Reppers 1x Basic Armour Hardener 1x Nitrous Injector 0x Small Turrets (this is all I can fit as CPU is too tight) 1200 Shields 4000 Armour = 5200 rHP 1200 Shields 4000 Armour (modified by the 275 reps per second) = X HP or the correct EHP or you can try to buffer tank a madrugar 3x 120mm plates (2x 120mm 1x 60mm) 1x Nitrous 1x Ion Cannon 1200 Shields 8454 Armour = 9654 Thank you for speaking slow enough for me :) Now, I just want to be practical (going from what I've seen on the field and not just numbers). If you're in a 1v1 with a maddy and you have a railgun...you're going to get smoked. Especially with that fit that you displayed because you'll probably need maybe 5 or 6 shots to take it down once their hardeners are on and you have an advanced turret with no damage mods. If the fight lasts long enough, their armor hardeners will outlast your shield hardeners and couple with the armor reps it will chew through all of that hp. While your rail is reloading, overheated, or if you pause in between shots...their tank is repping armor at 275hp per sec. At the same time, they are doing constant damage to your shields so your shields will never have enough delay to regen. Couple all of that with a fuel injector and speed for the maddy....it's over. Now, if the maddy wasn't as fast, it may be easier to deal with in 1v1 situations. Which is why you cannot play a Gunlogi like a Maddy. You cannot treat and engagement the same way. For example....brawling with a Blaster tank while in a rail is always stupid without damage mods to alpha through those reps + hardener. However the point is you said Gunlogis don't have EHP = to Armour tanks...... on paper they do, and its because of that shield tanks are the ultimate IMO for anti Tank combat. Great manoeuvrability, more modular (aka you can fit them out more specifically), can take any turret type. Now if you compared those two HAV fits in their prime. Maddy is a tough fight. But combined DPS , while 2x ADV rail guns break the reps and hardener of the Armour tank means you will come out on top every time. I wouldn't engage a maddy like that but unless you're a redline rail tanker.....you may get caught in that situation just for being on the field. If you play a maddy how you're supposed to..then it doesn't matter how much ehp you have. You have to flank and get them with all of your shots before they can react to run or fight back. All of those shields, etc matters if you're facing another gunnlogi rail. Maddy > Gunnlogi all day...even a maddy railtank is better
Lets not get too overly technical. You are explaining how you would win a fight........not really how it always goes in a tank duel......especially when I roll ontop of a blaster an nullify is blaster......
Poor mechanics ftw!
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3368
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 05:26:00 -
[56] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:As much as I lament that the original ideal of Dust was corrupted........ I really am just here to point out how good Caldari Tanks are. Everything is "good" in their own way. But when you put them against each other on the battlefield...that's where you see superiority. Every gear, weapon, etc shouldn't have a clear advantage over another. They should fit the playerstyle of the player and that would determine the victor. In my mind Caldari tanks are vastly superior. For the reasons I have stated but also because its a better anti infantry platform.....seriously try leaving the hardener on that fit on and manning a small turret....... ignores AV......gets +5 kills.
idk......I use a caldari tank because I'm a shield guy. But I see tankers like TomHanks and King Hak **** infantry and tanks on the battlefield. Only way to kill them is to have a lot of help or to catch them sleeping. I don't see shield tanks doing that much damage on the battlefield like they do.
> Check RND out here
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
588
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:35:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Maybe if Dust had spaceships, then you can take it there. But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc)
This has been my point that gets ignored in the Eve conversations. I get that people want Eve and Dust to line up but they don't. This game would probably have to be remade not just simple balance issues to make the game behave like Eve. Every little detail in the past would have to be revisited. The games core mechanics will have to be rebuilt. It is far easier for the Devs to not be time wasting morons and simply conclude that the ground warfare =/= space warfare in the lore. Which makes plenty of sense, because in the real world military strategy is not copy pasted from naval to air to ground strategy.
I'm all for players pushing Legion to behave like Eve, but for Dust it is far too late and retroactively trying to fix it has been breaking this game. Logi bonuses, assault bonuses, all these ****** bonuses that broke the original synergy and made many suits inferior bonus wise all occurred because forum warriors bitched to CCP that the game should behave like Eve. |
Death Shadow117
New Age Empire.
General Tso's Alliance
350
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:36:00 -
[58] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi????
Got removed from cal and given to amscouts. Its onlt +10% presicion for gal at PRO so its not really noticable. Maddy is faster because gunnlogis are more maneuverable.
Why?
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CCP Rattati
C C P
C C P Alliance
6617
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:43:00 -
[59] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster?
It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.
"As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"
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Apothecary Za'ki
Biomass Positive
767
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:45:00 -
[60] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets.
wait till minmatar vehicles :P with large autocannon turrets or large artillary :P
[[LogiBro in Training]]
Level 1 Forum Pariah
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Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4139
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:It was like that when I got here?
Clasic Rattati quote! That would describe most of DUST's problems.
Nice to see them being cleaned up one by one.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
392
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Posted - 2014.09.04 13:10:00 -
[62] - Quote
So statistically the Madruga is the only tank to use, absolute boss of a vehicle...
Perhaps try using them, The Gunlogi is the 'go to' tank...
If you put a rail turret on a Madruga I will eat you alive, missiles will thrash anything with armour, plus you wont be able to turn that turret fast enough to keep up with the acceleration & turn speed of the Gunlogi.
Gunlogi > Madruga.
After the reverse speed nerf in the next hotfix...
Gunlogi > A bucket on your head > Madruga. |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 15:20:00 -
[63] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower?
Better hardeners for shield. Ever try to break through 3 shield hardeners when 1.7 first came out? You need 3 tanks for it. |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:21:00 -
[64] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster?
Doesn't use vehicles, thinks he knows hardeners. lolk |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:31:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
And you're talking about Missile tanks........NOTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster turret 1v1. The only way to kill it is to sneak up on it and hope that all of your shots get in before they have a chance to react.
Again, thinks he knows tanks. |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 15:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector.
Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff
It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary. It is easier to maneuver them.....sure but it is moot when you're fighting a fuel injected maddy with a blaster turret. They have more health, faster, and mods are better. NO THEY DON'T HAVE MORE EHP, unless the two repairers contribute 3000EHP over the duration of the fight, which they very well might. you have to speak slower, Ydubbs doesnt understand the difference between rHP and eHP.
He doesn't understand vehicles at all. |
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
4056
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 15:39:00 -
[67] - Quote
Gallente vehicles have higher top speed but the acceleration is much less. For example a gunlogi will allways turn much faster then a madrugar and can move quicker into cover.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:46:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I wouldn't engage a maddy like that but unless you're a redline rail tanker.....you may get caught in that situation just for being on the field.
If you play a maddy how you're supposed to..then it doesn't matter how much ehp you have. You have to flank and get them with all of your shots before they can react to run or fight back. All of those shields, etc matters if you're facing another gunnlogi rail.
Maddy > Gunnlogi all day...even a maddy railtank is better
Yes, because every tanker that uses a rail stays in the redline. |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 15:53:00 -
[69] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. wait till minmatar vehicles :P with large autocannon turrets or large artillary :P
You mean Legion? Because it's already been confirmed that Dust won't get any new vehicles at all. |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 15:54:00 -
[70] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Gallente vehicles have higher top speed but the acceleration is much less. For example a gunlogi will allways turn much faster then a madrugar and can move quicker into cover.
An admitted hater of vehicles, thinks he knows them. |
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1990
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 15:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.
The problem is that Madrugars can, at the same time, have more tank(native to armor), gank (damage mod that doesn't effect defense), and speed (same as damage mod) than a Gunnlogi. The base theory of shield tanking is get in with large bursts of hp and damage and get out to cool down. |
Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1388
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 16:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:
So you would say.
"Hey next street fighter game lets have Ken be stronger and Ryu be faster. It might wholly go against the premise of the characters and the X years of history this franchise has put forwards but hell what the **** do we care if the characters are not done justice."
Analogy doesn't apply because we aren't saying, "Hey next Eve game..." Maybe if Dust had spaceships, then you can take it there. But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc)
Technically we are. EVE: DUST 514 was the next EVE game, then came EVE: Valkyrie, and now EVE: Legion. All the games set in the New Eden universe are EVE.
Also they seem to be trying to get things inline with the lore (take the slot change on the Amarr & Gal sentinels for example).
We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11962
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Posted - 2014.09.04 16:18:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
The successful half of the franchise....congrats...because these games barely affect one another. But if you're going to talk consistency then let the same rule apply to dropsuits as well. Gallente suits should be faster than caldari suits but they aren't. What about ADS? Is there a speed difference in shield and armor dropships?
Would love for Gallente to have a speed between Cal and Min while having eHP between Cal and Min.
Duvolle + Speed = <3
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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2Berries
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
272
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Posted - 2014.09.04 16:57:00 -
[74] - Quote
Death Shadow117 wrote:Got removed from cal and given to amscouts. Its onlt +10% presicion for gal at PRO so its not really noticable. Maddy is faster because gunnlogis are more maneuverable.
In return, caldari got broken range bonus that nobody noticed. Why? Because nobody knows what 100m passive scans looked like.
Burning through clones like Rusty Venture.
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Everything Dies
HENTAI FAN CLUB
935
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 17:23:00 -
[75] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector.
Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff
Going by my own personal experience, I prefer to use the Maddys due to the fact that I can equip scanners without sacrificing much. Shield extenders/hardeners are too valuable on a Gunni, so I use them as strictly an anti-AV vehicle (particularly if I notice a missile turret show up in the kill feed.) The scanner allows me to take on an anti-infantry role and, in the rare event that I squad up with other people, I basically serve as a mobile scanning platform and rack up the "intel kill assist +15." The scanner also allows me to notice an approaching missile tank and give me time to escape.
With my Ion Cannon, I won't hesitate to go after any other blaster tank that I come across. Rail tanks aren't a major concern if I can get close to them as I can usually survive the initial salvo before they overheat or need to pause and cool down. If I need to, I'll charge right up to them and climb on top of them...then sit there and repair my armor while they're unable to shoot me.
That said...if I could equip a scanner in the low slot of a Gunni I'd probably never use a Maddy ever again. The handling is so much quicker and tighter and it's very rare that a Maddy would survive long enough if it's retreating for the speed difference to become noticeable.
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof:
Listen
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Killface Hunt
TO THE DEATH
29
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Posted - 2014.09.04 17:36:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.
Madrugars have a higher top speed but terrible maneuverability. More mass to move means it's harder to get moving and harder to turn. So you need a bigger power plant.
Look at it this way. A World Rally Car has only 300 horse power, maxes out at under 250kph and is one of the most maneuverable land vehicles on the planet. I can buy a road car that weighs almost twice as much, has nearly twice as much power and has I higher top speed but is slower to accelerate and won't turn anywhere as well.
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RogueTrooper 2000AD
Neckbeard Absolution
310
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 18:05:00 -
[77] - Quote
GG, YGGdubs.
Take what i say with a bag of salt
Who needs a gun when you can run people over
FW saboteur
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H0riz0n Unlimit
Inner.Hell
165
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 18:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi???? scrublogi got a greater acceleration, madrugar got top speed
Tanker since I was born -- Want back my blaster -- Madrugar 1125/6753 -- Reduce weakspot dimension
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
989
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 19:09:00 -
[79] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. But the Caldari tank has less base EHP than the Gallente tank while also being slower. The point being made is, why should players use Caldari tanks when Gallente tanks are faster and have more EHP.
Because when it comes to tank vs tank the caldari has a significant advantage over the gallente.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1456
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 19:14:00 -
[80] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
I cannot answer this question, and I've been contemplating it since these changes were announced. My only guess is that there was a shift towards Cal scout around Bravo and the Charlie changes were in response to that.
However, I would argue that we now find ourselves with more imbalance due to the fact that CCP changed the winner of the EWAR race from the scanner to the scanned and now any scout can defeat the scanner if he chooses to, with the Cal and Gal scouts still able to do so and still retain significant HP while doing it. Add the high alpha of a shotgun and the ability to get a shot off before anyone really sees you and it only gets worse.
The result are two suits that have no effective counter, and the game imbalance we see before us being realized on a daily basis.
For those interested, here's a recent thread which goes into detail on this issue: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174600&find=unread |
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
989
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 19:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I'm trying to understand your "regen modification" but I can't. We are talking about base hp:
Gunnlogi = 2500hp + 1500hp = 4000hp total
Madrugar = 1200hp + 4000hp = 5200hp total
I would say that difference is significant. You are adding shield extenders to the gunnlogi in your example but not armor plates for the madrugar.
And you're talking about Missile tanks........NOTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster turret 1v1. The only way to kill it is to sneak up on it and hope that all of your shots get in before they have a chance to react.
First off it's 2650hp + 1500hp for Gunnlogi, secondly EVERYTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster in 1v1. EVERYTHING.
Rail maddy beats it, missile maddy beats it, rail gunny beats it, missile gunny beats it and blaster gunny beats it. Why? Because all those have higher dps (blaster gunny has higher dps cause you can fit dmg mod) and especially when you are in a Gunnlogi you are invulnerable to blasters when you activate your harderner.
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
989
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 19:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I'm trying to understand your "regen modification" but I can't. We are talking about base hp:
Gunnlogi = 2500hp + 1500hp = 4000hp total
Madrugar = 1200hp + 4000hp = 5200hp total
I would say that difference is significant. You are adding shield extenders to the gunnlogi in your example but not armor plates for the madrugar.
And you're talking about Missile tanks........NOTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster turret 1v1.
Why have you not accouted for optimised fittings. You are choosing base hulls and telling me that you believe that is an accurate indicator of which tank to pick? I mention the regen modifier because it affects EHP, however I do not have the mathematical bent to work out the effect that armour reps have on EHP. As for the Blaster thing? Really? You can't either blap them as they approach or have the durability on your HAV to last the..... less than 10 second reload speed (with skills)? If you would like to talk about optimised fittings....then it's worse because shield tankers aren't using 3 extenders all of the time. Most of the time, you'll see 2500 hp/2515 hp. Some guys may use one extender to bring it up to 3700hp. But most of the time, shield tankers are using other mods in their high slots instead of extenders.
Because you can fit stuff like dmg mods on the Gunnlogi and still brick tank the armor side. On the Madrugar you can't fit anything other than nitrous and if you are lucky, a scanner on the high slots.
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
989
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 19:35:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? try playing eve. gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part. its call racial playstyle. when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast. try playing Streetfighter Ken is faster but Ryu is stronger (you get my point?)
That's so over simplified that I must reply to that with something equally as oversimplified:
Madrugar is faster, accelerates slower, handles worse. Is weaker against other tanks. Stronger against AV.
Gunnlogi is slower, accelerates faster, handles better. Is stronger against other tanks. Weaker against AV.
Still need to go for even more simple reply?
Madrugar is faster but Gunnlogi is stronger.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
831
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 20:10:00 -
[84] - Quote
#rekt
Assault since Replication.
We've come full circle.
Finally.
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
590
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 20:25:00 -
[85] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.
I think the other devs probably thought of it in terms of momentum. The gallente vehicles are heavier and therefor accelerate slower but also have a higher top speed once they finally accelerate due to the monster of an engine that had to be built to move it in the first place.
On the other hand, I imagine the Caldari vehicles are lighter so they accelerate faster but don't have as strong of an engine as the performance is adequate as is. From everything I've heard that is the hallmark of the Caldari, efficiency. |
wiseguy12
Ancient Legion
86
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 20:44:00 -
[86] - Quote
Gallente have mastered the art of BS stats.
Pro Caldari assault and sentinel.
Proto magsec, Forgegun and Rail Rifle
Onuoto Uakan
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13214
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 20:54:00 -
[87] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem. The problem is that Madrugars can, at the same time, have more tank(native to armor), gank (damage mod that doesn't effect defense), and speed (same as damage mod) than a Gunnlogi. The base theory of shield tanking is get in with large bursts of hp and damage and get out to cool down.
But they cannot be fit as well due to ludicrously low CPU values, about half that of the Gunlogi which also has roughly the same PG.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13214
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 20:56:00 -
[88] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
The successful half of the franchise....congrats...because these games barely affect one another. But if you're going to talk consistency then let the same rule apply to dropsuits as well. Gallente suits should be faster than caldari suits but they aren't. What about ADS? Is there a speed difference in shield and armor dropships?
Would love for Gallente to have a speed between Cal and Min while having eHP between Cal and Min. Duvolle + Speed = <3
I would suggest base hull of something like
1000-1200 Shields
3200-3400 Armour
A rough 12.5-15% increase to CPU and a reduction to top acceleration and top speed for all tanks across the board.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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danie braz
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
70
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 21:05:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.
Top end speed vs acceleration.
Fluoride uranium carbon potassium bismuth technetium helium sulfur germanium thulium Molybdenum neon yttrium
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Maximus Aurelicus
Gallente Federation Resistance
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 23:24:00 -
[90] - Quote
Ok, I didn't read all the posts but your wrong mate. The better top speed in Gallente vehicles? Does''t mean anything but that they can run faster in a certain direction "only going straight" i.e. vector accelaration. Caldari vehicles have much, much superior turning speed and acceration making them much superior in the bumpy confines of dust for movement.
I'm surprised all of you forum posters don't know this, play the game before you post. A gallente vehicle needs an injector or afterburner just to keep moving steadily, especially if you put an even slight armor stack.
From what I'm hearing my guess is that you are armor stacking Gunnlogis and complaining like every other nerf crier.
Try this- Take any caldari vehicle, put an injector or afterburner, remove all of those dubious armor stacks and GO for a DRIVE. My guess is some of you will stfu afterwards. A Gunnlogi can run circles around Madrugers whilst the madruger tries to turn. A Onikuma can enter places Baloches can't due to smaller frame and even have turning capability making much better transport for the once again bumpy maps of Dust. A Python can aim it's primary turret about 5 times better then an Incubus.
The speed Gallente vehicles get, is GONE when it TURNS. Some of you clearly need to play the game more, and whine less. No hard feelings.
MCCs need internal drop-hatch friendly damage over time like heat, war effects, hazards, anti-traitor systems etc.
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13216
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 23:27:00 -
[91] - Quote
Maximus Aurelicus wrote:Ok, I didn't read all the posts but your wrong mate. The better top speed in Gallente vehicles? Does''t mean anything but that they can run faster in a certain direction "only going straight" i.e. vector accelaration. Caldari vehicles have much, much superior turning speed and acceration making them much superior in the bumpy confines of dust for movement.
I'm surprised all of you forum posters don't know this, play the game before you post. A gallente vehicle needs an injector or afterburner just to keep moving steadily, especially if you put an even slight armor stack.
From what I'm hearing my guess is that you are armor stacking Gunnlogis and complaining like every other nerf crier.
Try this- Take any caldari vehicle, put an injector or afterburner, remove all of those dubious armor stacks and GO for a DRIVE. My guess is some of you will stfu afterwards. A Gunnlogi can run circles around Madrugers whilst the madruger tries to turn. A Onikuma can enter places Baloches can't due to smaller frame and even have turning capability making much better transport for the once again bumpy maps of Dust. A Python can aim it's primary turret about 5 times better then an Incubus.
The speed Gallente vehicles get, is GONE when it TURNS. Some of you clearly need to play the game more, and whine less. No hard feelings.
Okay this lecture would have been brilliant and you would have had a valid point in telling them to play the game if you had known which module affects tanks and which affects dropships.....
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
|
Gemini Cuspid
129
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 23:34:00 -
[92] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones.
I was pretty sure Amarr took the cake for the all of their ships being classified as "tons of metal armor, lasers and tortoise like frightening speed like Ghimli of LoTR's". Likewise most eve users (at least the few years ago when I last playued) cross trained into caldari to increase speed of their ships while armor tanking. Likewise the Caldari have typically been known to boost the best sensors in the EvE universe as well.
Is it possible this is where the developers are at fault because integration with the EvE universe means that the same tech used in shipbuilding can't be applied to Dust!?! Before you know it, Amarr is going to get a shield bonus that surpasses a Gal or Cal and a sprint bonus surpassing anything Mimitar! |
DAAAA BEAST
BEAST EMPIRE
16
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 00:12:00 -
[93] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi????
Hey RND remember me ? Id am that guy you were stomping over and over with your strafing skills while shooting a six kin cr. Well how does it feel now to have to use precision enhancers instead of shield exteners ?
Enjoy your hotfix XD
Sniper Hunting and Noobs Trolling are my specialities.
YT:
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCldBb96c0OpYqYdCfEg5
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Patrlck 56
517
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 00:19:00 -
[94] - Quote
AFAIK they explained it before releasing 1.7. Gunnlogis have faster initial speed, Madrugars have faster speed once they get going. |
Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
834
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 00:47:00 -
[95] - Quote
Patrlck 56 wrote:AFAIK they explained it before releasing 1.7. Gunnlogis have faster initial speed, Madrugars have faster speed once they get going.
Oh great, you summoned patrick...
Assault since Replication.
We've come full circle.
Finally.
|
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
4058
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 01:07:00 -
[96] - Quote
Maximus Aurelicus wrote:Ok, I didn't read all the posts but your wrong mate. The better top speed in Gallente vehicles? Does''t mean anything but that they can run faster in a certain direction "only going straight" i.e. vector accelaration. Caldari vehicles have much, much superior turning speed and acceration making them much superior in the bumpy confines of dust for movement.
I'm surprised all of you forum posters don't know this, play the game before you post. A gallente vehicle needs an injector or afterburner just to keep moving steadily, especially if you put an even slight armor stack.
From what I'm hearing my guess is that you are armor stacking Gunnlogis and complaining like every other nerf crier.
Try this- Take any caldari vehicle, put an injector or afterburner, remove all of those dubious armor stacks and GO for a DRIVE. My guess is some of you will stfu afterwards. A Gunnlogi can run circles around Madrugers whilst the madruger tries to turn. A Onikuma can enter places Baloches can't due to smaller frame and even have turning capability making much better transport for the once again bumpy maps of Dust. A Python can aim it's primary turret about 5 times better then an Incubus.
The speed Gallente vehicles get, is GONE when it TURNS. Some of you clearly need to play the game more, and whine less. No hard feelings.
Nah i prefer the methana over the saga cause it has way more tanking and it doesnt flip over every little bump on the road. And the fuel injector gets me out of nasty situations if needed.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13221
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 01:07:00 -
[97] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Patrlck 56 wrote:AFAIK they explained it before releasing 1.7. Gunnlogis have faster initial speed, Madrugars have faster speed once they get going. Oh great, you summoned patrick...
That's a good thing though.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13222
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 01:17:00 -
[98] - Quote
Having looked back at my previous builds I realise some of them cannot be properly achieved without certain sacrifices.
A Proto Missile tanks of mine with require a CPU extender over the plating reducing the EHP to 8920.
A fully plated tank will sacrifice its secondary Turrets for an Advanced Turret of any class and I believe a downgrade on an AT-201 to a basic hardener.
Less EHP for DPS trade off, but still as I see it more than an Armour tank.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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Patrlck 56
518
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 01:25:00 -
[99] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Patrlck 56 wrote:AFAIK they explained it before releasing 1.7. Gunnlogis have faster initial speed, Madrugars have faster speed once they get going. Oh great, you summoned patrick...
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TODDSTER024
Revive Repair Resupply
222
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 01:43:00 -
[100] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster?
Faster, slower, shields, armor, it doesnt matter as they always flee like roaches when i start shooting them with my forge gun. Dropships also... |
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
396
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 02:44:00 -
[101] - Quote
TODDSTER024 wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? Faster, slower, shields, armor, it doesnt matter as they always flee like roaches when i start shooting them with my forge gun. Dropships also...
Probably so they can come back once they see which tower you're hiding up... Hit indicator doesn't work as well as it does for ground troops. |
Maximus Aurelicus
Gallente Federation Resistance
1
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 11:23:00 -
[102] - Quote
True Adamance wrote:Maximus Aurelicus wrote:Ok, I didn't read all the posts but your wrong mate. The better top speed in Gallente vehicles? Does''t mean anything but that they can run faster in a certain direction "only going straight" i.e. vector accelaration. Caldari vehicles have much, much superior turning speed and acceration making them much superior in the bumpy confines of dust for movement.
I'm surprised all of you forum posters don't know this, play the game before you post. A gallente vehicle needs an injector or afterburner just to keep moving steadily, especially if you put an even slight armor stack.
From what I'm hearing my guess is that you are armor stacking Gunnlogis and complaining like every other nerf crier.
Try this- Take any caldari vehicle, put an injector or afterburner, remove all of those dubious armor stacks and GO for a DRIVE. My guess is some of you will stfu afterwards. A Gunnlogi can run circles around Madrugers whilst the madruger tries to turn. A Onikuma can enter places Baloches can't due to smaller frame and even have turning capability making much better transport for the once again bumpy maps of Dust. A Python can aim it's primary turret about 5 times better then an Incubus.
The speed Gallente vehicles get, is GONE when it TURNS. Some of you clearly need to play the game more, and whine less. No hard feelings. Okay this lecture would have been brilliant and you would have had a valid point in telling them to play the game if you had known which module affects tanks and which affects dropships.....
Afterburners for dropships, injectors for ground vehicles. Are you talking about replacing extenders with amplifiers? They're a personal choice really you can put them on ADS as much as railtanks but keep in mind Gunnlogis cannot point their turrets at a certain place and have bigger butts unlike the Madruger's tiny butt.
I've never fitted a vehicle with wrong boosters but have stolen plenty 
As for the rest of you guys shields have more "effective" ehp then armor due to fact most AV and Missiles are Explosive based doing 120%-129% damage to armor but only 80%-72%(or was it 71% cant remember atm) damage to shields.
Thus 2650 shields=3180ehp(Gunnlogi base) vs AV whilst 4000 armor=3200ehp vs AV(Madruger base). That 20 shield difference is easily upset by the uber fast speed and regen Caldari vehicles get. They are the real powerbase. With only weakness to slow aiming railtanks and close range blastertanks and the completely ineffective due to speed plasma cannon. Even Forgeguns(Rail class) do 90% vs 110% damage.
Quit whining about this and play the fcking game first, most of you don't know what your talking about. No hard feelings. ^^
MCCs need internal drop-hatch friendly damage over time like heat, war effects, hazards, anti-traitor systems etc.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3373
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 12:13:00 -
[103] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.
Finally....a dev that has common sense.
(I have to catch up in the rest of this thread)
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3373
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 12:16:00 -
[104] - Quote
Derpty Derp wrote:So statistically the Madruga is the only tank to use, absolute boss of a vehicle...
Perhaps try using them, The Gunlogi is the 'go to' tank...
If you put a rail turret on a Madruga I will eat you alive, missiles will thrash anything with armour, plus you wont be able to turn that turret fast enough to keep up with the acceleration & turn speed of the Gunlogi.
Gunlogi > Madruga.
After the reverse speed nerf in the next hotfix...
YOu wouldn't put a rail on a maddy. But a maddy with blaster will smoke a missile tank. ONLY way a missile would survive is if they sneak up on them without them knowing and get all of their shots in beforethey can react.
Gunlogi > A bucket on your head > Madruga.
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3373
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Posted - 2014.09.05 12:39:00 -
[105] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Gallente vehicles have higher top speed but the acceleration is much less. For example a gunlogi will allways turn much faster then a madrugar and can move quicker into cover.
Right but it doesn't make sense when you run up on a madrugar and hit him with 2 shots and he can just break away from you and turn a corner before you can get your last shot off.
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3373
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 12:43:00 -
[106] - Quote
Everything Dies wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector.
Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff
The handling is so much quicker and tighter and it's very rare that a Maddy would survive long enough if it's retreating for the speed difference to become noticeable.
Trust me..it's noticeable. I can't tell you how many times I've tried brought maddys down to one shot and they're able to get away behind a corner because they just outran me.
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3373
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 12:46:00 -
[107] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I'm trying to understand your "regen modification" but I can't. We are talking about base hp:
Gunnlogi = 2500hp + 1500hp = 4000hp total
Madrugar = 1200hp + 4000hp = 5200hp total
I would say that difference is significant. You are adding shield extenders to the gunnlogi in your example but not armor plates for the madrugar.
And you're talking about Missile tanks........NOTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster turret 1v1. The only way to kill it is to sneak up on it and hope that all of your shots get in before they have a chance to react.
First off it's 2650hp + 1500hp for Gunnlogi, secondly EVERYTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster in 1v1. EVERYTHING. Rail maddy beats it, missile maddy beats it, rail gunny beats it, missile gunny beats it and blaster gunny beats it. Why? Because all those have higher dps (blaster gunny has higher dps cause you can fit dmg mod) and especially when you are in a Gunnlogi you are invulnerable to blasters when you activate your harderner.
If you are a tanker and a good one at that.....I would pay ISK to see you beat a competent maddy blaster like TomHanks, King Hak, etc with any tank of your choosing in a 1v1. $100M ISK to the tanker that can beat them in a 1v1...best out of 7.
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3373
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 12:48:00 -
[108] - Quote
MarasdF Loron wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? try playing eve. gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part. its call racial playstyle. when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast. try playing Streetfighter Ken is faster but Ryu is stronger (you get my point?) That's so over simplified that I must reply to that with something equally as oversimplified: Madrugar is faster, accelerates slower, handles worse. Is weaker against other tanks. Stronger against AV. Gunnlogi is slower, accelerates faster, handles better. Is stronger against other tanks. Weaker against AV. Still need to go for even more simple reply? Madrugar is faster but Gunnlogi is stronger.
You missed the point that I was trying to make. He was comparing eve to dust. So, I used another game that's compared to dust.
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3373
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 12:52:00 -
[109] - Quote
DAAAA BEAST wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi???? Hey RND remember me ? Id am that guy you were stomping over and over with your strafing skills while shooting a six kin cr. Well how does it feel now to have to use precision enhancers instead of shield exteners ? Enjoy your hotfix XD
We will stop stomp you....how much will change?
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3373
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 13:07:00 -
[110] - Quote
Maximus Aurelicus wrote:True Adamance wrote:Maximus Aurelicus wrote:Ok, I didn't read all the posts but your wrong mate. The better top speed in Gallente vehicles? Does''t mean anything but that they can run faster in a certain direction "only going straight" i.e. vector accelaration. Caldari vehicles have much, much superior turning speed and acceration making them much superior in the bumpy confines of dust for movement.
I'm surprised all of you forum posters don't know this, play the game before you post. A gallente vehicle needs an injector or afterburner just to keep moving steadily, especially if you put an even slight armor stack.
From what I'm hearing my guess is that you are armor stacking Gunnlogis and complaining like every other nerf crier.
Try this- Take any caldari vehicle, put an injector or afterburner, remove all of those dubious armor stacks and GO for a DRIVE. My guess is some of you will stfu afterwards. A Gunnlogi can run circles around Madrugers whilst the madruger tries to turn. A Onikuma can enter places Baloches can't due to smaller frame and even have turning capability making much better transport for the once again bumpy maps of Dust. A Python can aim it's primary turret about 5 times better then an Incubus.
The speed Gallente vehicles get, is GONE when it TURNS. Some of you clearly need to play the game more, and whine less. No hard feelings. Okay this lecture would have been brilliant and you would have had a valid point in telling them to play the game if you had known which module affects tanks and which affects dropships..... Afterburners for dropships, injectors for ground vehicles. Are you talking about replacing extenders with amplifiers? They're a personal choice really you can put them on ADS as much as railtanks but keep in mind Gunnlogis cannot point their turrets at a certain place and have bigger butts unlike the Madruger's tiny butt. I've never fitted a vehicle with wrong boosters but have stolen plenty As for the rest of you guys shields have more "effective" ehp then armor due to fact most AV and Missiles are Explosive based doing 120%-129% damage to armor but only 80%-72%(or was it 71% cant remember atm) damage to shields. Thus 2650 shields=3180ehp(Gunnlogi base) vs AV whilst 4000 armor=3200ehp vs AV(Madruger base). That 20 shield difference is easily upset by the uber fast speed and regen Caldari vehicles get. They are the real powerbase. With only weakness to slow aiming railtanks and close range blastertanks and the completely ineffective due to speed plasma cannon. Even Forgeguns(Rail class) do 90% vs 110% damage. Quit whining about this and play the fcking game first, most of you don't know what your talking about. No hard feelings. ^^
Forget AV.....tell me about other tanks. what's the percentage of blaster tanks vs shields.
Something of note....all of this is inconsequential because my point is why are madrugars faster than gunnlogis? I'm not asking about which tank is better. If you care about what's fair then change some of the resistance bonuses around...but slow down the madrugars. Unless, there is a reason why an armor tank is faster than a shield tank.
> Check RND out here
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
972
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Posted - 2014.09.05 14:40:00 -
[111] - Quote
TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
Maybe if Dust had spaceships, then you can take it there. But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc)
This has been my point that gets ignored in the Eve conversations. I get that people want Eve and Dust to line up but they don't. This game would probably have to be remade not just simple balance issues to make the game behave like Eve. Every little detail in the past would have to be revisited. The games core mechanics will have to be rebuilt. It is far easier for the Devs to not be time wasting morons and simply conclude that the ground warfare =/= space warfare in the lore. Which makes plenty of sense, because in the real world military strategy is not copy pasted from naval to air to ground strategy. I'm all for players pushing Legion to behave like Eve, but for Dust it is far too late and retroactively trying to fix it has been breaking this game. Logi bonuses, assault bonuses, all these ****** bonuses that broke the original synergy and made many suits inferior bonus wise all occurred because forum warriors bitched to CCP that the game should behave like Eve. Not too mention a lot of the nonsense rebalance in the past has been born from, "In Eve I can do Y with my X, why can't I then do Z with my G?"
the problem is the entire basis of dust is broken. from day 1. the equipment is wrong. the suits bonuses are wrong. modules are in the wrong places. stuffs missing. eve is a complex game. it works when all the pieces are working together. dust will work when all the proper pieces are in their proper places working as intended. dust can never work until its completely overhauled. ccp recognized that. i recognized that months ago when i said they need to just start over, which they did. because its easier, and thats why dust is dead. dust should have been in beta in 2009-2010.
this is new eden. the gallente in eve need to match the gallente hear. a gallente logi in eve has armor repair bonuses.
why doesnt the gallente logi here have an armor repair tool?
dust is wrong.
why arent their shield repair tools for minmatar and caldari?
dust is wrong.
why arent shields on suits repped passively like eve?
dust is wrong.
why are our speed mods low slots and damage mods high slots?
dust is wrong.
tanks were too fast? they have a counter for that in eve. its not an issue in eve because eve has a formula that works.
the formula was not followed here, and chaos ensued and the game failed. its not a hard concept.
the game has always been broken, theres never been balance, one aspect gets fixed and three go wrong.
it needs to be rebuilt properly from the ground up with all components accounted for. do you know why heat sinks were 10%?(damage mods)
cause in eve you get resistance mods to counter them, mods we're conveniently missing here. so the bonuses needed to be lowered which they were.
our entire suit heirarchy is wrong and were missing 80% of the suits we should have along with probably half of the mods we should have. logi bonuses were wrong to begin with and they were broken even worse in 1.8
this is a game not the real world. the gallente are close range brawling dps monsters. that doesnt work in real life.
dont bring real life into a video game. its a very silly decision and it will rip your argument apart.
thats how it should work in dust. part of that comes from a general faster speed. gal suits should be faster than cal suits. you know why? speed mods are supposed to be high slot modules. also gallente favor repairers over straight up hp.
also were missing an entire third category of tanking. buffer tanking. it throws it off.
now thats off, caldaris been balanced to something thats off and the entire game falls apart.
we need eve parity
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Auris Lionesse
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
972
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 14:48:00 -
[112] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:
try playing eve.
gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part.
its call racial playstyle.
when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast.
try playing Streetfighter Ken is faster but Ryu is stronger (you get my point?) That's so over simplified that I must reply to that with something equally as oversimplified: Madrugar is faster, accelerates slower, handles worse. Is weaker against other tanks. Stronger against AV. Gunnlogi is slower, accelerates faster, handles better. Is stronger against other tanks. Weaker against AV. Still need to go for even more simple reply? Madrugar is faster but Gunnlogi is stronger. You missed the point that I was trying to make. He was comparing eve to dust. So, I used another game that's compared to dust.
and your completely wrong because im not comparing another game. this is eve. look in the upper left corner of your screen and read me the title.
EVE: dust 514.
this is part of eve online. the races need to behave the same across the board. this is the same universe.
thats one of the taglines for the game. ONE UNIVERSE. the same rules apply eveywhere. ccp shanghai just didnt follow the rules and here we are talking about fundamentals that arent a problem in eve because eve is already balanced using the rules that have been established for years. dust deviated. dust is at fault.
Don't vote for iron wolf saber.
Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
835
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 15:12:00 -
[113] - Quote
Ydubbs, Im not gonig to lie, I rejoiced when you quit. Your 'crypost' when you left made me nearly ecstatic, do you want to know why?
Because for months all you'd ever do was hold a counter opinion to what was an agreed up consensus by the forum community, then badger and berrate your way into imprinting your usually wrong point into the less knowledgeable.
There was much crying and wailing from you and your camp anytime anything was changed or heaven forbid, balanced.
And now you're back, doing the same stupid arrogant idiotic shenanigans as before.
True, Patrick and Marsdon are some of the most knowledgeable, highest skilled and courteous armor drivers left. I'd listen to what they are telling you.
Yes, Tomhanks and company can roll your face with a blaster maddy.
Did you EVER stop to consider that possibly, they have entirely maxed out armor skill trees? And that they most likely were rolling over infantry while in the blaster maddy until some scrub tank rolled up and pissed them off?
Circumstantial and Anecdotal evidence IS NOT EVIDENCE for your point.
I honestly don't know why anyone responds to you anymore.
Myself included. 
If you quit DUST, dont effing come back, especially after cryposting when leaving.
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3376
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 17:57:00 -
[114] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:Ydubbs, Im not gonig to lie, I rejoiced when you quit. Your 'crypost' when you left made me nearly ecstatic, do you want to know why? Because for months all you'd ever do was hold a counter opinion to what was an agreed up consensus by the forum community, then badger and berrate your way into imprinting your usually wrong point into the less knowledgeable. There was much crying and wailing from you and your camp anytime anything was changed or heaven forbid, balanced. And now you're back, doing the same stupid arrogant idiotic shenanigans as before. True, Patrick and Marsdon are some of the most knowledgeable, highest skilled and courteous armor drivers left. I'd listen to what they are telling you. Yes, Tomhanks and company can roll your face with a blaster maddy. Did you EVER stop to consider that possibly, they have entirely maxed out armor skill trees? And that they most likely were rolling over infantry while in the blaster maddy until some scrub tank rolled up and pissed them off? Circumstantial and Anecdotal evidence IS NOT EVIDENCE for your point. I honestly don't know why anyone responds to you anymore. Myself included.
What the **** are you talking about lol? First of all, I never made a post about "leaving". Second of all, no one has given a logical point of why an armor tank is faster than a shield tank. Even CCP Rattati posted that he doesn't understand it and it was like that since he came.
I'm not sure why you're sweating me so much. As far as opinions on this forums goes...Idiotic minds tends to stick together. Just because I'm arguing with 4 idiots by myself, that doesn't make me wrong. If anything, it makes me a fool to continue to argue with people that support bullshit.
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3376
|
Posted - 2014.09.05 18:11:00 -
[115] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:MarasdF Loron wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:
try playing eve.
gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part.
its call racial playstyle.
when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast.
try playing Streetfighter Ken is faster but Ryu is stronger (you get my point?) That's so over simplified that I must reply to that with something equally as oversimplified: Madrugar is faster, accelerates slower, handles worse. Is weaker against other tanks. Stronger against AV. Gunnlogi is slower, accelerates faster, handles better. Is stronger against other tanks. Weaker against AV. Still need to go for even more simple reply? Madrugar is faster but Gunnlogi is stronger. You missed the point that I was trying to make. He was comparing eve to dust. So, I used another game that's compared to dust. and your completely wrong because im not comparing another game. this is eve. look in the upper left corner of your screen and read me the title. EVE: dust 514. this is part of eve online. the races need to behave the same across the board. this is the same universe. thats one of the taglines for the game. ONE UNIVERSE. the same rules apply eveywhere. ccp shanghai just didnt follow the rules and here we are talking about fundamentals that arent a problem in eve because eve is already balanced using the rules that have been established for years. dust deviated. dust is at fault. ask any dev, ask any mod ask any person. what universe is this? new eden. this isnt a game in a closed space. its a very small system called molden heath that exists within minmatar space within eve online. anyone who says dust isnt part of eve online and eve lore shouldnt apply here is just wrong. no debate. wrong.
I guess this is what that other guy is talking about in this thread...arguing with you guys.
I don't know but the title of the game on my ps3 says Eve.
The skill point accrual system is different for a reason. We can not use our dust characters in Eve for a reason. Obviously it's in the same universe but still different games
But again....all of this is inconsequential. If it's going to be the same like eve then it has to be like that across the board. The shield suits has to be slower than the armor suits and the same should apply to weapons, bonuses, etc.
> Check RND out here
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CommanderBolt
Osmon Surveillance
Caldari State
1476
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Posted - 2014.09.05 19:22:00 -
[116] - Quote
Yo Ydubbs, you don't know me but I have had my eye on you sir ;-)
I have noticed that sometimes you seem to be frustrated a lot on the forums however I find you actually bring some good points to these forums the majority of the time good sir.
You could go into a massive debate about all of this.... but to keep my post short I will say this:
CCP should stick to conventions established by EVE Online (Where applicable) I.E Top Speed wise Min>Gal>Am>Cal (I think that's right)
That being said - Manoeuvrability - Caldari>Am>Gall>Minny
There are many of these problems solved by EVE to begin with INCLUDING ewar and scouting conventions for the races - Caldari have strongest Ewar, Gallente have strongest Anti-ewar / Sensor systems......
-=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=-
MY LIFE FOR AIUR!
"I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
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PLAYSTTION
GamersForChrist
203
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Posted - 2014.09.05 19:54:00 -
[117] - Quote
I think the racial speeds are in order like this
Fastest #1 Minmatar
2nd fastest #2 Gallente
2nd slowest #3 Caldari
slowest #4 Amarr
Thats why Gal tank is faster. Also the armour speed penalty on vehicles is messed i think.
44/4 in a BPO Scout (1.8) 40/5 in a Proto Assault (1.7)
Open Beta Vet 27mil sp
R.I.P Dust 514
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Maximus Aurelicus
Gallente Federation Resistance
1
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Posted - 2014.09.06 06:21:00 -
[118] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Maximus Aurelicus wrote:True Adamance wrote:Maximus Aurelicus wrote:Ok, I didn't read all the posts but your wrong mate. The better top speed in Gallente vehicles? Does''t mean anything but that they can run faster in a certain direction "only going straight" i.e. vector accelaration. Caldari vehicles have much, much superior turning speed and acceration making them much superior in the bumpy confines of dust for movement.
I'm surprised all of you forum posters don't know this, play the game before you post. A gallente vehicle needs an injector or afterburner just to keep moving steadily, especially if you put an even slight armor stack.
From what I'm hearing my guess is that you are armor stacking Gunnlogis and complaining like every other nerf crier.
Try this- Take any caldari vehicle, put an injector or afterburner, remove all of those dubious armor stacks and GO for a DRIVE. My guess is some of you will stfu afterwards. A Gunnlogi can run circles around Madrugers whilst the madruger tries to turn. A Onikuma can enter places Baloches can't due to smaller frame and even have turning capability making much better transport for the once again bumpy maps of Dust. A Python can aim it's primary turret about 5 times better then an Incubus.
The speed Gallente vehicles get, is GONE when it TURNS. Some of you clearly need to play the game more, and whine less. No hard feelings. Okay this lecture would have been brilliant and you would have had a valid point in telling them to play the game if you had known which module affects tanks and which affects dropships..... Afterburners for dropships, injectors for ground vehicles. Are you talking about replacing extenders with amplifiers? They're a personal choice really you can put them on ADS as much as railtanks but keep in mind Gunnlogis cannot point their turrets at a certain place and have bigger butts unlike the Madruger's tiny butt. I've never fitted a vehicle with wrong boosters but have stolen plenty As for the rest of you guys shields have more "effective" ehp then armor due to fact most AV and Missiles are Explosive based doing 120%-129% damage to armor but only 80%-72%(or was it 71% cant remember atm) damage to shields. Thus 2650 shields=3180ehp(Gunnlogi base) vs AV whilst 4000 armor=3200ehp vs AV(Madruger base). That 20 shield difference is easily upset by the uber fast speed and regen Caldari vehicles get. They are the real powerbase. With only weakness to slow aiming railtanks and close range blastertanks and the completely ineffective due to speed plasma cannon. Even Forgeguns(Rail class) do 90% vs 110% damage. Quit whining about this and play the fcking game first, most of you don't know what your talking about. No hard feelings. ^^ Forget AV.....tell me about other tanks. what's the percentage of blaster tanks vs shields. Something of note....all of this is inconsequential because my point is why are madrugars faster than gunnlogis? I'm not asking about which tank is better. If you care about what's fair then change some of the resistance bonuses around...but slow down the madrugars. Unless, there is a reason why an armor tank is faster than a shield tank.
Lol wth I'm "not" amongst the developers why does everyone think I'm a developer?? Eve players get a personalisable avatar that's where the picture comes from. I'm just another player like everyone else ^^
Railtank turrets do 109% vs shields, 89% vs armor. Blastertank turrets do 110% vs shields 90% vs armor.
MCCs need internal drop-hatch friendly damage over time like heat, war effects, hazards, anti-traitor systems etc.
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zzZaXxx
D3ATH CARD
490
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Posted - 2014.09.06 07:31:00 -
[119] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.
Gunnlogis have better resistance to swarms and forges, so they have that advantage (just have to avoid fluxes....and blaster turrets) |
843-Vika
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
280
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 08:03:00 -
[120] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi????
Gal has always had precision and dampening, since the start of uprising. |
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Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1391
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Posted - 2014.09.06 08:09:00 -
[121] - Quote
Maximus Aurelicus wrote:
Lol wth I'm "not" amongst the developers why does everyone think I'm a developer?? Eve players get a personalisable avatar that's where the picture comes from. I'm just another player like everyone else ^^
What the fck are you even going on about there? Nobody said you were a developer and your avatar is the same as the rest of the dust players that picked Caldari as their race.
We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3377
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 19:26:00 -
[122] - Quote
843-Vika wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi???? Gal has always had precision and dampening, since the start of uprising.
Really? wow....didn't know that. Thought it was dampening and something else.
> Check RND out here
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Ydubbs81 RND
Ahrendee Mercenaries
3377
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 19:30:00 -
[123] - Quote
zzZaXxx wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem. Gunnlogis have better resistance to swarms and forges, so they have that advantage (just have to avoid fluxes....and blaster turrets)
AV is the least of the worries on the battlefield as far as losing your tank.
> Check RND out here
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Sylwester Dziewiecki
Interregnum.
363
|
Posted - 2014.09.06 21:46:00 -
[124] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi????
Second question:
https://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Item_Database:Ships
Gallente ships are faster then Caldari(there is technology differences between both races)
First question:
I do not like it ether, skilling dropsuit is serous thing because of how many days you have to invest to it, and then someone decide to change stats and not allow you to get compensation for it, that suck. consolation I can add that bonus suck, same as whole passive scan with can be easily cheat by ground level of map with not penetrate EWAR .
Gallente Speed Scout.
EVE side of me: Nosum Hseebnrido
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Maximus Aurelicus
Gallente Federation Resistance
General Tso's Alliance
1
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Posted - 2014.09.07 03:33:00 -
[125] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Maximus Aurelicus wrote:Ok, I didn't read all the posts but your wrong mate. The better top speed in Gallente vehicles? Does''t mean anything but that they can run faster in a certain direction "only going straight" i.e. vector accelaration. Caldari vehicles have much, much superior turning speed and acceration making them much superior in the bumpy confines of dust for movement.
I'm surprised all of you forum posters don't know this, play the game before you post. A gallente vehicle needs an injector or afterburner just to keep moving steadily, especially if you put an even slight armor stack.
From what I'm hearing my guess is that you are armor stacking Gunnlogis and complaining like every other nerf crier.
Try this- Take any caldari vehicle, put an injector or afterburner, remove all of those dubious armor stacks and GO for a DRIVE. My guess is some of you will stfu afterwards. A Gunnlogi can run circles around Madrugers whilst the madruger tries to turn. A Onikuma can enter places Baloches can't due to smaller frame and even have turning capability making much better transport for the once again bumpy maps of Dust. A Python can aim it's primary turret about 5 times better then an Incubus.
The speed Gallente vehicles get, is GONE when it TURNS. Some of you clearly need to play the game more, and whine less. No hard feelings. Nah i prefer the methana over the saga cause it has way more tanking and it doesnt flip over every little bump on the road. And the fuel injector gets me out of nasty situations if needed.
The methana definitely has it's uses imo. When bumps cannot be avoided(sidehills) the bulk of the methana makes for great stability whereas the Saga would rock all over the place like a crazy rabbit doing stunts. But a good Saga can circle around turrets and small confines when going straight would mean a forge to the buttocks. Especially with all those tanks, but if your running from swarms its something else. The Saga II has a 60% shield hardener, the methana nothing. But your absolutely right, Caldari LAVs are like formula 1 cars(idk the full background) whereas Gallente LAVs are Ferraris.
To support my argument, Look up Formula One Wikipedia, their "cornering" speed makes them the "fastest" road course "racing" cars.
MCCs need internal drop-hatch friendly damage over time like heat, war effects, hazards, anti-traitor systems etc.
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Bradric Banewolf
D3ATH CARD
312
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Posted - 2014.09.07 03:45:00 -
[126] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster?
Man has a point, CCP Rattati? .......
"Anybody order chaos?"
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GLOBAL fils'de RAGE
Consolidated Dust
24
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Posted - 2014.09.07 04:11:00 -
[127] - Quote
Bradric Banewolf wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? Man has a point, CCP Rattati? .......
NO NO NO
Eve planets have no gravity! Transparent Aluminum you say? No inertia?
And EVE lore is master.
In the future man becomes narrow minded and realises that tactics are secondary to EVE lore doctorine, why?...because!
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
12004
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Posted - 2014.09.07 04:30:00 -
[128] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:843-Vika wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi???? Gal has always had precision and dampening, since the start of uprising. Really? wow....didn't know that. Thought it was dampening and something else.
Incorrect, it was dampening and range.
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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