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Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 968	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:36:00 - [31] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? try playing eve. gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part. its part of their racial theme. when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3368	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:37:00 - [32] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector. Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary. It is easier to maneuver them.....sure but it is moot when you're fighting a fuel injected maddy with a blaster turret. They have more health, faster, and mods are better. NO THEY DON'T HAVE MORE EHP, unless the two repairers contribute 3000EHP over the duration of the fight, which they very well might. I'm trying to understand how you can say that a madrugar doesn't have more hp than a gunnlogi > Check RND out here
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 829	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:38:00 - [33] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector. Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary. It is easier to maneuver them.....sure but it is moot when you're fighting a fuel injected maddy with a blaster turret. They have more health, faster, and mods are better. NO THEY DON'T HAVE MORE EHP, unless the two repairers contribute 3000EHP over the duration of the fight, which they very well might. you have to speak slower, Ydubbs doesnt understand the different between rHP and eHP. Assault since Replication. We've come full circle. Finally.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3368	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:39:00 - [34] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? try playing eve. gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part. its call racial playstyle. when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast. try playing Streetfighter Ken is faster but Ryu is stronger (you get my point?) > Check RND out here
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13198	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:40:00 - [35] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? try playing eve. gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part. its call racial playstyle. when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast. try playing Streetfighter Ken is faster but Ryu is stronger (you get my point?) So you would say. "Hey next street fighter game lets have Ken be stronger and Ryu be faster. It might wholly go against the premise of the characters and the X years of history this franchise has put forwards but hell what the **** do we care if the characters are not done justice." "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 829	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:42:00 - [36] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote: It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary. It is easier to maneuver them.....sure but it is moot when you're fighting a fuel injected maddy with a blaster turret. They have more health, faster, and mods are better. NO THEY DON'T HAVE MORE EHP, unless the two repairers contribute 3000EHP over the duration of the fight, which they very well might. you have to speak slower, Ydubbs doesnt understand the different between rHP and eHP. Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi he has been, youre not listening take regen, resists, range, rofs and 'true' or 'optimized' fittings into account and you might actually learn something instead of sperging about. Assault since Replication. We've come full circle. Finally.
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 968	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:42:00 - [37] - Quote also id take maneuverability and acceleration over top speed and hp anyday if the controls had a dedicated break/reverse/accelerate button. tanks are unusable to me in dust because they drive like washing machines. you cant even turn left and right in them because when you rotate the stick halfway they get stuck between turning left and right and you just wiggle in place for a second. in bf you can just pop out from behind a house, pop someone and throw it in reverse like hide and seek and get back behind the house to reposition. when i get stuck turning or clipping on objects on the map its gets me killed. the tanks arent responsive and clunky. Don't vote for iron wolf saber. Vote for someone who will help the community i.e. anyone else.
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 829	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:43:00 - [38] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: also id take maneuverability and acceleration over top speed and hp anyday if the controls had a dedicated break/reverse/accelerate button. tanks are unusable to me in dust because they drive like washing machines. you cant even turn left and right in them because when you rotate the stick halfway they get stuck between turning left and right and you just wiggle in place for a second. in bf you can just pop out from behind a house, pop someone and throw it in reverse like hide and seek and get back behind the house to reposition. when i get stuck turning or clipping on objects on the map its gets me killed. the tanks arent responsive and clunky. Kbm dude, you can drive a cal tank like what a min lav should be, jesus mode for hit and run., Assault since Replication. We've come full circle. Finally.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3368	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:45:00 - [39] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Auris Lionesse wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? try playing eve. gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part. its call racial playstyle. when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast. try playing Streetfighter Ken is faster but Ryu is stronger (you get my point?) So you would say. "Hey next street fighter game lets have Ken be stronger and Ryu be faster. It might wholly go against the premise of the characters and the X years of history this franchise has put forwards but hell what the **** do we care if the characters are not done justice." Analogy doesn't apply because we aren't saying, "Hey next Eve game..." Maybe if Dust had spaceships, then you can take it there. But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc) > Check RND out here
Kaze Eyrou Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 576	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:48:00 - [40] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout? My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi???? That's..... that's four questions..... Closed Beta Vet // Logi Bro // @KazeEyrou

Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 830	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:50:00 - [41] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc) We have been saying that since day fcking one. People such as yourself have been clamouring for a different game the entire time. Just stop. Assault since Replication. We've come full circle. Finally.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3368	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:51:00 - [42] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi he has been, youre not listening take regen, resists, range, rofs and 'true' or 'optimized' fittings into account and you might actually learn something instead of sperging about. Ok, let's talk regen and resists..... Armor mods rep instaneously as opposed to shield regen which has a few seconds delay before it starts up. I can't remember exact % of resistance but i do remember that armor hardeners last longer than shield hardeners. Since armor mods rep instanteously, you can gain some health in between shots. But shield regen isn't fast enough to help you in a 1v1. So....again....explain to me how the madrugar's ehp is lower than a gunnlogis'? > Check RND out here
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13198	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:53:00 - [43] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi Lets take two sets of fits Standard Hulls Gunlogi 2650 Shield 1500 Armour = 4150 Madrugar 1200 Shields 4000 Armou = 5200 This is reflective of their total HP. These values are not modified by any modules. Now lets take two more optimised fits that I would use. Gunlogi 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Advanaced Shield Hardener 1x Complex PG Upgrade 1x ADV 120mm Plates 1x XT-201 2x Partical Accelerator (Yes I can fit all of this on with maxed skills) 5300 Shields 2950 Armour = 8250 HP (not yet modified by the Shield Hardener) means this is rHP (real HP) 5300 x 1.4 = 7420 Shields + 2950 Armour = 10370 EHP (effective HP) Madrugar 1x Neutron Blasters 2x Complex Heavy Armour Reppers 1x Basic Armour Hardener 1x Nitrous Injector 0x Small Turrets (this is all I can fit as CPU is too tight) 1200 Shields 4000 Armour = 5200 rHP 1200 Shields 4000 Armour (modified by the 275 reps per second) = X HP or the correct EHP or you can try to buffer tank a madrugar 3x 120mm plates (2x 120mm 1x 60mm) 1x Nitrous 1x Ion Cannon 1200 Shields 8454 Armour = 9654 "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3368	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:53:00 - [44] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc) We have been saying that since day fcking one. People such as yourself have been clamouring for a different game the entire time. Just stop. Because it is a different game. Either way...it doesn't matter to me because it's all numbers. But it should be consistent and I don't necessarily mean consistent with eve. It should be consistent in Dust. If armor gear is faster than shield gear, then it should apply to dropsuits as well as tanks. > Check RND out here
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13198	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:57:00 - [45] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi he has been, youre not listening take regen, resists, range, rofs and 'true' or 'optimized' fittings into account and you might actually learn something instead of sperging about. Ok, let's talk regen and resists..... Armor mods rep instaneously as opposed to shield regen which has a few seconds delay before it starts up. I can't remember exact % of resistance but i do remember that armor hardeners last longer than shield hardeners. Since armor mods rep instanteously, you can gain some health in between shots. But shield regen isn't fast enough to help you in a 1v1. So....again....explain to me how the madrugar's ehp is lower than a gunnlogis'? It's basically down to duration of a fight. Over time the Maddy become more powerful as its reps have extended EHP significantly more than its total HP. However Shield HAV trades duration of combat effectiveness for short term effectiveness. Now personally I'd never take a Blaster Gunlogi against a Blaster Maddy since the blaster game is about how long you can survive and manage heat, in a blaster on blaster fight the Maddy has a clear advantage. Any other turret (even again a Blaster maddy) and the Gunlogi has the advantage. By being able to pump out alpha or DPS (railgun or Missiles) not to mention being more modular and allowing for a full compliment of Gunners to add their DPS to the fight. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13200	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:59:00 - [46] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc) We have been saying that since day fcking one. People such as yourself have been clamouring for a different game the entire time. Just stop. Because it is a different game. Either way...it doesn't matter to me because it's all numbers. But it should be consistent and I don't necessarily mean consistent with eve. It should be consistent in Dust. If armor gear is faster than shield gear, then it should apply to dropsuits as well as tanks. * face palm. You exist IN NEW EDEN! THE SAME PEOPLE WHO MAKE THE SPACESHIPS AND TURRETS MAKE YOUR DROPSUITS AND WEAPONS...... The same design philosophies should apply to both. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Soldner VonKuechle SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 831	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:00:00 - [47] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc) We have been saying that since day fcking one. People such as yourself have been clamouring for a different game the entire time. Just stop. Because it is a different game. Either way...it doesn't matter to me because it's all numbers. But it should be consistent and I don't necessarily mean consistent with eve. It should be consistent in Dust. If armor gear is faster than shield gear, then it should apply to dropsuits as well as tanks. you CAN NOT make a game set in the same make believe land DIFFERENT because it undercuts all lore/mechanics blah ***** blah blahs of both games. But thats what they did. instead of following doctrines and principles well established in the giant space tactical spreadsheet game of eve, they continuously listening to the mewlings of console shooters who wanted it more twichty, more indescript, more rehash of everything else. You won, and us who came here to play eves battlefields lost. and now we re recanting the tale and youre arguing? i dont ***** understand you! Assault since Replication. We've come full circle. Finally.
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3368	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:05:00 - [48] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi Lets take two sets of fits Standard Hulls Gunlogi 2650 Shield 1500 Armour = 4150 Madrugar 1200 Shields 4000 Armou = 5200 This is reflective of their total HP. These values are not modified by any modules. Now lets take two more optimised fits that I would use. Gunlogi 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Advanaced Shield Hardener 1x Complex PG Upgrade 1x ADV 120mm Plates 1x XT-201 2x Partical Accelerator (Yes I can fit all of this on with maxed skills) 5300 Shields 2950 Armour = 8250 HP (not yet modified by the Shield Hardener) means this is rHP (real HP) 5300 x 1.4 = 7420 Shields + 2950 Armour = 10370 EHP (effective HP) Madrugar 1x Neutron Blasters 2x Complex Heavy Armour Reppers 1x Basic Armour Hardener 1x Nitrous Injector 0x Small Turrets (this is all I can fit as CPU is too tight) 1200 Shields 4000 Armour = 5200 rHP 1200 Shields 4000 Armour (modified by the 275 reps per second) = X HP or the correct EHP or you can try to buffer tank a madrugar 3x 120mm plates (2x 120mm 1x 60mm) 1x Nitrous 1x Ion Cannon 1200 Shields 8454 Armour = 9654 Thank you for speaking slow enough for me :) Now, I just want to be practical (going from what I've seen on the field and not just numbers). If you're in a 1v1 with a maddy and you have a railgun...you're going to get smoked. Especially with that fit that you displayed because you'll probably need maybe 5 or 6 shots to take it down once their hardeners are on and you have an advanced turret with no damage mods. If the fight lasts long enough, their armor hardeners will outlast your shield hardeners and couple with the armor reps it will chew through all of that hp. While your rail is reloading, overheated, or if you pause in between shots...their tank is repping armor at 275hp per sec. At the same time, they are doing constant damage to your shields so your shields will never have enough delay to regen. Couple all of that with a fuel injector and speed for the maddy....it's over. Now, if the maddy wasn't as fast, it may be easier to deal with in 1v1 situations. > Check RND out here
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13200	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:06:00 - [49] - Quote As much as I lament that the original ideal of Dust was corrupted........ I really am just here to point out how good Caldari Tanks are. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3368	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:13:00 - [50] - Quote Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Soldner VonKuechle wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc) We have been saying that since day fcking one. People such as yourself have been clamouring for a different game the entire time. Just stop. Because it is a different game. Either way...it doesn't matter to me because it's all numbers. But it should be consistent and I don't necessarily mean consistent with eve. It should be consistent in Dust. If armor gear is faster than shield gear, then it should apply to dropsuits as well as tanks. you CAN NOT make a game set in the same make believe land DIFFERENT because it undercuts all lore/mechanics blah ***** blah blahs of both games. But thats what they did. instead of following doctrines and principles well established in the giant space tactical spreadsheet game of eve, they continuously listening to the mewlings of console shooters who wanted it more twichty, more indescript, more rehash of everything else. You won, and us who came here to play eves battlefields lost. and now we re recanting the tale and youre arguing? i dont ***** understand you! What is your point? Talking with eve fanboys is hard sometimes because you guys are laser focused just like CCP and just as clueless. I don't even care if the races are the same in eve and dust. My point is that in Dust it should be consistent. If you guys wanted armor gear to be faster than shield gear, then that's fine. It could have been like that from day one but then it needs to be consistent in Dust. Gallente dropsuits should have been faster than Caldari dropsuits and should apply to tanks, weapons, lavs, dropships, etc. But if you remember...type I suits were slower than type II shield suits. CCP modified it to where they have the same speed and even amarr is slowest. > Check RND out here

True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13200	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:14:00 - [51] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi Lets take two sets of fits Standard Hulls Gunlogi 2650 Shield 1500 Armour = 4150 Madrugar 1200 Shields 4000 Armou = 5200 This is reflective of their total HP. These values are not modified by any modules. Now lets take two more optimised fits that I would use. Gunlogi 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Advanaced Shield Hardener 1x Complex PG Upgrade 1x ADV 120mm Plates 1x XT-201 2x Partical Accelerator (Yes I can fit all of this on with maxed skills) 5300 Shields 2950 Armour = 8250 HP (not yet modified by the Shield Hardener) means this is rHP (real HP) 5300 x 1.4 = 7420 Shields + 2950 Armour = 10370 EHP (effective HP) Madrugar 1x Neutron Blasters 2x Complex Heavy Armour Reppers 1x Basic Armour Hardener 1x Nitrous Injector 0x Small Turrets (this is all I can fit as CPU is too tight) 1200 Shields 4000 Armour = 5200 rHP 1200 Shields 4000 Armour (modified by the 275 reps per second) = X HP or the correct EHP or you can try to buffer tank a madrugar 3x 120mm plates (2x 120mm 1x 60mm) 1x Nitrous 1x Ion Cannon 1200 Shields 8454 Armour = 9654 Thank you for speaking slow enough for me :) Now, I just want to be practical (going from what I've seen on the field and not just numbers). If you're in a 1v1 with a maddy and you have a railgun...you're going to get smoked. Especially with that fit that you displayed because you'll probably need maybe 5 or 6 shots to take it down once their hardeners are on and you have an advanced turret with no damage mods. If the fight lasts long enough, their armor hardeners will outlast your shield hardeners and couple with the armor reps it will chew through all of that hp. While your rail is reloading, overheated, or if you pause in between shots...their tank is repping armor at 275hp per sec. At the same time, they are doing constant damage to your shields so your shields will never have enough delay to regen. Couple all of that with a fuel injector and speed for the maddy....it's over. Now, if the maddy wasn't as fast, it may be easier to deal with in 1v1 situations. Which is why you cannot play a Gunlogi like a Maddy. You cannot treat and engagement the same way. For example....brawling with a Blaster tank while in a rail is always stupid without damage mods to alpha through those reps + hardener. However the point is you said Gunlogis don't have EHP = to Armour tanks...... on paper they do, and its because of that shield tanks are the ultimate IMO for anti Tank combat. Great manoeuvrability, more modular (aka you can fit them out more specifically), can take any turret type. Now if you compared those two HAV fits in their prime. Maddy is a tough fight. But combined DPS , while 2x ADV rail guns break the reps and hardener of the Armour tank means you will come out on top every time. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3368	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:15:00 - [52] - Quote True Adamance wrote: As much as I lament that the original ideal of Dust was corrupted........ I really am just here to point out how good Caldari Tanks are. Everything is "good" in their own way. But when you put them against each other on the battlefield...that's where you see superiority. Every gear, weapon, etc shouldn't have a clear advantage over another. They should fit the playerstyle of the player and that would determine the victor. > Check RND out here
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13200	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:18:00 - [53] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: As much as I lament that the original ideal of Dust was corrupted........ I really am just here to point out how good Caldari Tanks are. Everything is "good" in their own way. But when you put them against each other on the battlefield...that's where you see superiority. Every gear, weapon, etc shouldn't have a clear advantage over another. They should fit the playerstyle of the player and that would determine the victor. In my mind Caldari tanks are vastly superior. For the reasons I have stated but also because its a better anti infantry platform.....seriously try leaving the hardener on that fit on and manning a small turret....... ignores AV......gets +5 kills. "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3368	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:18:00 - [54] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi Lets take two sets of fits Standard Hulls Gunlogi 2650 Shield 1500 Armour = 4150 Madrugar 1200 Shields 4000 Armou = 5200 This is reflective of their total HP. These values are not modified by any modules. Now lets take two more optimised fits that I would use. Gunlogi 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Advanaced Shield Hardener 1x Complex PG Upgrade 1x ADV 120mm Plates 1x XT-201 2x Partical Accelerator (Yes I can fit all of this on with maxed skills) 5300 Shields 2950 Armour = 8250 HP (not yet modified by the Shield Hardener) means this is rHP (real HP) 5300 x 1.4 = 7420 Shields + 2950 Armour = 10370 EHP (effective HP) Madrugar 1x Neutron Blasters 2x Complex Heavy Armour Reppers 1x Basic Armour Hardener 1x Nitrous Injector 0x Small Turrets (this is all I can fit as CPU is too tight) 1200 Shields 4000 Armour = 5200 rHP 1200 Shields 4000 Armour (modified by the 275 reps per second) = X HP or the correct EHP or you can try to buffer tank a madrugar 3x 120mm plates (2x 120mm 1x 60mm) 1x Nitrous 1x Ion Cannon 1200 Shields 8454 Armour = 9654 Thank you for speaking slow enough for me :) Now, I just want to be practical (going from what I've seen on the field and not just numbers). If you're in a 1v1 with a maddy and you have a railgun...you're going to get smoked. Especially with that fit that you displayed because you'll probably need maybe 5 or 6 shots to take it down once their hardeners are on and you have an advanced turret with no damage mods. If the fight lasts long enough, their armor hardeners will outlast your shield hardeners and couple with the armor reps it will chew through all of that hp. While your rail is reloading, overheated, or if you pause in between shots...their tank is repping armor at 275hp per sec. At the same time, they are doing constant damage to your shields so your shields will never have enough delay to regen. Couple all of that with a fuel injector and speed for the maddy....it's over. Now, if the maddy wasn't as fast, it may be easier to deal with in 1v1 situations. Which is why you cannot play a Gunlogi like a Maddy. You cannot treat and engagement the same way. For example....brawling with a Blaster tank while in a rail is always stupid without damage mods to alpha through those reps + hardener. However the point is you said Gunlogis don't have EHP = to Armour tanks...... on paper they do, and its because of that shield tanks are the ultimate IMO for anti Tank combat. Great manoeuvrability, more modular (aka you can fit them out more specifically), can take any turret type. Now if you compared those two HAV fits in their prime. Maddy is a tough fight. But combined DPS , while 2x ADV rail guns break the reps and hardener of the Armour tank means you will come out on top every time. I wouldn't engage a maddy like that but unless you're a redline rail tanker.....you may get caught in that situation just for being on the field. If you play a maddy how you're supposed to..then it doesn't matter how much ehp you have. You have to flank and get them with all of your shots before they can react to run or fight back. All of those shields, etc matters if you're facing another gunnlogi rail. > Check RND out here
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 13200	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:20:00 - [55] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Yes....please speak slower and explan how the madrugar ehp is lower than a gunnlogi Lets take two sets of fits Standard Hulls Gunlogi 2650 Shield 1500 Armour = 4150 Madrugar 1200 Shields 4000 Armou = 5200 This is reflective of their total HP. These values are not modified by any modules. Now lets take two more optimised fits that I would use. Gunlogi 2x Complex Shield Extenders 1x Advanaced Shield Hardener 1x Complex PG Upgrade 1x ADV 120mm Plates 1x XT-201 2x Partical Accelerator (Yes I can fit all of this on with maxed skills) 5300 Shields 2950 Armour = 8250 HP (not yet modified by the Shield Hardener) means this is rHP (real HP) 5300 x 1.4 = 7420 Shields + 2950 Armour = 10370 EHP (effective HP) Madrugar 1x Neutron Blasters 2x Complex Heavy Armour Reppers 1x Basic Armour Hardener 1x Nitrous Injector 0x Small Turrets (this is all I can fit as CPU is too tight) 1200 Shields 4000 Armour = 5200 rHP 1200 Shields 4000 Armour (modified by the 275 reps per second) = X HP or the correct EHP or you can try to buffer tank a madrugar 3x 120mm plates (2x 120mm 1x 60mm) 1x Nitrous 1x Ion Cannon 1200 Shields 8454 Armour = 9654 Thank you for speaking slow enough for me :) Now, I just want to be practical (going from what I've seen on the field and not just numbers). If you're in a 1v1 with a maddy and you have a railgun...you're going to get smoked. Especially with that fit that you displayed because you'll probably need maybe 5 or 6 shots to take it down once their hardeners are on and you have an advanced turret with no damage mods. If the fight lasts long enough, their armor hardeners will outlast your shield hardeners and couple with the armor reps it will chew through all of that hp. While your rail is reloading, overheated, or if you pause in between shots...their tank is repping armor at 275hp per sec. At the same time, they are doing constant damage to your shields so your shields will never have enough delay to regen. Couple all of that with a fuel injector and speed for the maddy....it's over. Now, if the maddy wasn't as fast, it may be easier to deal with in 1v1 situations. Which is why you cannot play a Gunlogi like a Maddy. You cannot treat and engagement the same way. For example....brawling with a Blaster tank while in a rail is always stupid without damage mods to alpha through those reps + hardener. However the point is you said Gunlogis don't have EHP = to Armour tanks...... on paper they do, and its because of that shield tanks are the ultimate IMO for anti Tank combat. Great manoeuvrability, more modular (aka you can fit them out more specifically), can take any turret type. Now if you compared those two HAV fits in their prime. Maddy is a tough fight. But combined DPS , while 2x ADV rail guns break the reps and hardener of the Armour tank means you will come out on top every time. I wouldn't engage a maddy like that but unless you're a redline rail tanker.....you may get caught in that situation just for being on the field. If you play a maddy how you're supposed to..then it doesn't matter how much ehp you have. You have to flank and get them with all of your shots before they can react to run or fight back. All of those shields, etc matters if you're facing another gunnlogi rail. Maddy > Gunnlogi all day...even a maddy railtank is better Lets not get too overly technical. You are explaining how you would win a fight........not really how it always goes in a tank duel......especially when I roll ontop of a blaster an nullify is blaster...... Poor mechanics ftw! "We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
Ydubbs81 RND Ahrendee Mercenaries 3368	Posted - 2014.09.04 05:26:00 - [56] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: As much as I lament that the original ideal of Dust was corrupted........ I really am just here to point out how good Caldari Tanks are. Everything is "good" in their own way. But when you put them against each other on the battlefield...that's where you see superiority. Every gear, weapon, etc shouldn't have a clear advantage over another. They should fit the playerstyle of the player and that would determine the victor. In my mind Caldari tanks are vastly superior. For the reasons I have stated but also because its a better anti infantry platform.....seriously try leaving the hardener on that fit on and manning a small turret....... ignores AV......gets +5 kills. idk......I use a caldari tank because I'm a shield guy. But I see tankers like TomHanks and King Hak **** infantry and tanks on the battlefield. Only way to kill them is to have a lot of help or to catch them sleeping. I don't see shield tanks doing that much damage on the battlefield like they do. > Check RND out here
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 588	Posted - 2014.09.04 12:35:00 - [57] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Maybe if Dust had spaceships, then you can take it there. But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc) This has been my point that gets ignored in the Eve conversations. I get that people want Eve and Dust to line up but they don't. This game would probably have to be remade not just simple balance issues to make the game behave like Eve. Every little detail in the past would have to be revisited. The games core mechanics will have to be rebuilt. It is far easier for the Devs to not be time wasting morons and simply conclude that the ground warfare =/= space warfare in the lore. Which makes plenty of sense, because in the real world military strategy is not copy pasted from naval to air to ground strategy. I'm all for players pushing Legion to behave like Eve, but for Dust it is far too late and retroactively trying to fix it has been breaking this game. Logi bonuses, assault bonuses, all these ****** bonuses that broke the original synergy and made many suits inferior bonus wise all occurred because forum warriors bitched to CCP that the game should behave like Eve.
Death Shadow117 New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 350	Posted - 2014.09.04 12:36:00 - [58] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout? My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi???? Got removed from cal and given to amscouts. Its onlt +10% presicion for gal at PRO so its not really noticable. Maddy is faster because gunnlogis are more maneuverable. Why?

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 6617	Posted - 2014.09.04 12:43:00 - [59] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 767	Posted - 2014.09.04 12:45:00 - [60] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. wait till minmatar vehicles :P with large autocannon turrets or large artillary :P [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah



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