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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Fox Gaden
Immortal Guides
4139
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Posted - 2014.09.04 12:48:00 -
[61] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:It was like that when I got here?
Clasic Rattati quote! That would describe most of DUST's problems.
Nice to see them being cleaned up one by one.
Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
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Derpty Derp
Dead Man's Game
392
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 13:10:00 -
[62] - Quote
So statistically the Madruga is the only tank to use, absolute boss of a vehicle...
Perhaps try using them, The Gunlogi is the 'go to' tank...
If you put a rail turret on a Madruga I will eat you alive, missiles will thrash anything with armour, plus you wont be able to turn that turret fast enough to keep up with the acceleration & turn speed of the Gunlogi.
Gunlogi > Madruga.
After the reverse speed nerf in the next hotfix...
Gunlogi > A bucket on your head > Madruga. |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
3
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 15:20:00 -
[63] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower?
Better hardeners for shield. Ever try to break through 3 shield hardeners when 1.7 first came out? You need 3 tanks for it. |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:21:00 -
[64] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster?
Doesn't use vehicles, thinks he knows hardeners. lolk |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:31:00 -
[65] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
And you're talking about Missile tanks........NOTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster turret 1v1. The only way to kill it is to sneak up on it and hope that all of your shots get in before they have a chance to react.
Again, thinks he knows tanks. |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:37:00 -
[66] - Quote
Soldner VonKuechle wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:TYCHUS MAXWELL wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector.
Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff
It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary. It is easier to maneuver them.....sure but it is moot when you're fighting a fuel injected maddy with a blaster turret. They have more health, faster, and mods are better. NO THEY DON'T HAVE MORE EHP, unless the two repairers contribute 3000EHP over the duration of the fight, which they very well might. you have to speak slower, Ydubbs doesnt understand the difference between rHP and eHP.
He doesn't understand vehicles at all. |
The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
4056
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 15:39:00 -
[67] - Quote
Gallente vehicles have higher top speed but the acceleration is much less. For example a gunlogi will allways turn much faster then a madrugar and can move quicker into cover.
They say when you die you see a white light which then forms the line of:
"GAME OVER! PLEASE INSERT COIN"
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JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
3
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:46:00 -
[68] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I wouldn't engage a maddy like that but unless you're a redline rail tanker.....you may get caught in that situation just for being on the field.
If you play a maddy how you're supposed to..then it doesn't matter how much ehp you have. You have to flank and get them with all of your shots before they can react to run or fight back. All of those shields, etc matters if you're facing another gunnlogi rail.
Maddy > Gunnlogi all day...even a maddy railtank is better
Yes, because every tanker that uses a rail stays in the redline. |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
7
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:53:00 -
[69] - Quote
Apothecary Za'ki wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. wait till minmatar vehicles :P with large autocannon turrets or large artillary :P
You mean Legion? Because it's already been confirmed that Dust won't get any new vehicles at all. |
JudgeIsABadPilot
Circle of Huskarl
Minmatar Republic
7
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 15:54:00 -
[70] - Quote
The dark cloud wrote:Gallente vehicles have higher top speed but the acceleration is much less. For example a gunlogi will allways turn much faster then a madrugar and can move quicker into cover.
An admitted hater of vehicles, thinks he knows them. |
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Vulpes Dolosus
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1990
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Posted - 2014.09.04 15:58:00 -
[71] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.
The problem is that Madrugars can, at the same time, have more tank(native to armor), gank (damage mod that doesn't effect defense), and speed (same as damage mod) than a Gunnlogi. The base theory of shield tanking is get in with large bursts of hp and damage and get out to cool down. |
Thumb Green
Raymond James Corp
1388
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Posted - 2014.09.04 16:05:00 -
[72] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:
So you would say.
"Hey next street fighter game lets have Ken be stronger and Ryu be faster. It might wholly go against the premise of the characters and the X years of history this franchise has put forwards but hell what the **** do we care if the characters are not done justice."
Analogy doesn't apply because we aren't saying, "Hey next Eve game..." Maybe if Dust had spaceships, then you can take it there. But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc)
Technically we are. EVE: DUST 514 was the next EVE game, then came EVE: Valkyrie, and now EVE: Legion. All the games set in the New Eden universe are EVE.
Also they seem to be trying to get things inline with the lore (take the slot change on the Amarr & Gal sentinels for example).
We don't kick ass, we kick dick and we kick it hard.
Join us in our Pumpkin Crushing
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Cat Merc
Onslaught Inc
RISE of LEGION
11962
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Posted - 2014.09.04 16:18:00 -
[73] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
The successful half of the franchise....congrats...because these games barely affect one another. But if you're going to talk consistency then let the same rule apply to dropsuits as well. Gallente suits should be faster than caldari suits but they aren't. What about ADS? Is there a speed difference in shield and armor dropships?
Would love for Gallente to have a speed between Cal and Min while having eHP between Cal and Min.
Duvolle + Speed = <3
Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
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2Berries
Ghosts of Dawn
General Tso's Alliance
272
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Posted - 2014.09.04 16:57:00 -
[74] - Quote
Death Shadow117 wrote:Got removed from cal and given to amscouts. Its onlt +10% presicion for gal at PRO so its not really noticable. Maddy is faster because gunnlogis are more maneuverable.
In return, caldari got broken range bonus that nobody noticed. Why? Because nobody knows what 100m passive scans looked like.
Burning through clones like Rusty Venture.
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Everything Dies
HENTAI FAN CLUB
935
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Posted - 2014.09.04 17:23:00 -
[75] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector.
Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff
Going by my own personal experience, I prefer to use the Maddys due to the fact that I can equip scanners without sacrificing much. Shield extenders/hardeners are too valuable on a Gunni, so I use them as strictly an anti-AV vehicle (particularly if I notice a missile turret show up in the kill feed.) The scanner allows me to take on an anti-infantry role and, in the rare event that I squad up with other people, I basically serve as a mobile scanning platform and rack up the "intel kill assist +15." The scanner also allows me to notice an approaching missile tank and give me time to escape.
With my Ion Cannon, I won't hesitate to go after any other blaster tank that I come across. Rail tanks aren't a major concern if I can get close to them as I can usually survive the initial salvo before they overheat or need to pause and cool down. If I need to, I'll charge right up to them and climb on top of them...then sit there and repair my armor while they're unable to shoot me.
That said...if I could equip a scanner in the low slot of a Gunni I'd probably never use a Maddy ever again. The handling is so much quicker and tighter and it's very rare that a Maddy would survive long enough if it's retreating for the speed difference to become noticeable.
Mike Patton is the greatest singer in music. Proof:
Listen
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Killface Hunt
TO THE DEATH
29
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Posted - 2014.09.04 17:36:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.
Madrugars have a higher top speed but terrible maneuverability. More mass to move means it's harder to get moving and harder to turn. So you need a bigger power plant.
Look at it this way. A World Rally Car has only 300 horse power, maxes out at under 250kph and is one of the most maneuverable land vehicles on the planet. I can buy a road car that weighs almost twice as much, has nearly twice as much power and has I higher top speed but is slower to accelerate and won't turn anywhere as well.
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RogueTrooper 2000AD
Neckbeard Absolution
310
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 18:05:00 -
[77] - Quote
GG, YGGdubs.
Take what i say with a bag of salt
Who needs a gun when you can run people over
FW saboteur
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H0riz0n Unlimit
Inner.Hell
165
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Posted - 2014.09.04 18:39:00 -
[78] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
My second question is (because I just realized this as well) why in the motherfugg is the Madrugar faster than the Gunnlogi???? scrublogi got a greater acceleration, madrugar got top speed
Tanker since I was born -- Want back my blaster -- Madrugar 1125/6753 -- Reduce weakspot dimension
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
989
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 19:09:00 -
[79] - Quote
medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:medomai grey wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. But the Caldari tank has less base EHP than the Gallente tank while also being slower. The point being made is, why should players use Caldari tanks when Gallente tanks are faster and have more EHP.
Because when it comes to tank vs tank the caldari has a significant advantage over the gallente.
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Leadfoot10
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
1456
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 19:14:00 -
[80] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:I just realized..today...that the gallente scout has a precision scan bonus. WTF? Why would you remove it from Cal scout and then give the gal scout (of all scouts!!!!) a precision bonus. I can grasp the motivation for giving it to amarr but why does the gal scout need it? Forget why it needs it...why remove it from cal scout and hand it to gal scout?
I cannot answer this question, and I've been contemplating it since these changes were announced. My only guess is that there was a shift towards Cal scout around Bravo and the Charlie changes were in response to that.
However, I would argue that we now find ourselves with more imbalance due to the fact that CCP changed the winner of the EWAR race from the scanner to the scanned and now any scout can defeat the scanner if he chooses to, with the Cal and Gal scouts still able to do so and still retain significant HP while doing it. Add the high alpha of a shotgun and the ability to get a shot off before anyone really sees you and it only gets worse.
The result are two suits that have no effective counter, and the game imbalance we see before us being realized on a daily basis.
For those interested, here's a recent thread which goes into detail on this issue: https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=174600&find=unread |
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
989
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 19:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I'm trying to understand your "regen modification" but I can't. We are talking about base hp:
Gunnlogi = 2500hp + 1500hp = 4000hp total
Madrugar = 1200hp + 4000hp = 5200hp total
I would say that difference is significant. You are adding shield extenders to the gunnlogi in your example but not armor plates for the madrugar.
And you're talking about Missile tanks........NOTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster turret 1v1. The only way to kill it is to sneak up on it and hope that all of your shots get in before they have a chance to react.
First off it's 2650hp + 1500hp for Gunnlogi, secondly EVERYTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster in 1v1. EVERYTHING.
Rail maddy beats it, missile maddy beats it, rail gunny beats it, missile gunny beats it and blaster gunny beats it. Why? Because all those have higher dps (blaster gunny has higher dps cause you can fit dmg mod) and especially when you are in a Gunnlogi you are invulnerable to blasters when you activate your harderner.
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
989
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 19:30:00 -
[82] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
I'm trying to understand your "regen modification" but I can't. We are talking about base hp:
Gunnlogi = 2500hp + 1500hp = 4000hp total
Madrugar = 1200hp + 4000hp = 5200hp total
I would say that difference is significant. You are adding shield extenders to the gunnlogi in your example but not armor plates for the madrugar.
And you're talking about Missile tanks........NOTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster turret 1v1.
Why have you not accouted for optimised fittings. You are choosing base hulls and telling me that you believe that is an accurate indicator of which tank to pick? I mention the regen modifier because it affects EHP, however I do not have the mathematical bent to work out the effect that armour reps have on EHP. As for the Blaster thing? Really? You can't either blap them as they approach or have the durability on your HAV to last the..... less than 10 second reload speed (with skills)? If you would like to talk about optimised fittings....then it's worse because shield tankers aren't using 3 extenders all of the time. Most of the time, you'll see 2500 hp/2515 hp. Some guys may use one extender to bring it up to 3700hp. But most of the time, shield tankers are using other mods in their high slots instead of extenders.
Because you can fit stuff like dmg mods on the Gunnlogi and still brick tank the armor side. On the Madrugar you can't fit anything other than nitrous and if you are lucky, a scanner on the high slots.
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MarasdF Loron
Fatal Absolution
General Tso's Alliance
989
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 19:35:00 -
[83] - Quote
Ydubbs81 RND wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? try playing eve. gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part. its call racial playstyle. when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast. try playing Streetfighter Ken is faster but Ryu is stronger (you get my point?)
That's so over simplified that I must reply to that with something equally as oversimplified:
Madrugar is faster, accelerates slower, handles worse. Is weaker against other tanks. Stronger against AV.
Gunnlogi is slower, accelerates faster, handles better. Is stronger against other tanks. Weaker against AV.
Still need to go for even more simple reply?
Madrugar is faster but Gunnlogi is stronger.
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Soldner VonKuechle
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
831
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 20:10:00 -
[84] - Quote
#rekt
Assault since Replication.
We've come full circle.
Finally.
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TYCHUS MAXWELL
The Fun Police
590
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 20:25:00 -
[85] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.
I think the other devs probably thought of it in terms of momentum. The gallente vehicles are heavier and therefor accelerate slower but also have a higher top speed once they finally accelerate due to the monster of an engine that had to be built to move it in the first place.
On the other hand, I imagine the Caldari vehicles are lighter so they accelerate faster but don't have as strong of an engine as the performance is adequate as is. From everything I've heard that is the hallmark of the Caldari, efficiency. |
wiseguy12
Ancient Legion
86
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 20:44:00 -
[86] - Quote
Gallente have mastered the art of BS stats.
Pro Caldari assault and sentinel.
Proto magsec, Forgegun and Rail Rifle
Onuoto Uakan
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13214
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 20:54:00 -
[87] - Quote
Vulpes Dolosus wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem. The problem is that Madrugars can, at the same time, have more tank(native to armor), gank (damage mod that doesn't effect defense), and speed (same as damage mod) than a Gunnlogi. The base theory of shield tanking is get in with large bursts of hp and damage and get out to cool down.
But they cannot be fit as well due to ludicrously low CPU values, about half that of the Gunlogi which also has roughly the same PG.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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True Adamance
Praetoriani Classiarii Templares
Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris
13214
|
Posted - 2014.09.04 20:56:00 -
[88] - Quote
Cat Merc wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:
The successful half of the franchise....congrats...because these games barely affect one another. But if you're going to talk consistency then let the same rule apply to dropsuits as well. Gallente suits should be faster than caldari suits but they aren't. What about ADS? Is there a speed difference in shield and armor dropships?
Would love for Gallente to have a speed between Cal and Min while having eHP between Cal and Min. Duvolle + Speed = <3
I would suggest base hull of something like
1000-1200 Shields
3200-3400 Armour
A rough 12.5-15% increase to CPU and a reduction to top acceleration and top speed for all tanks across the board.
"We were commanded to burn the system...We did. I mourn the loss of the innocents caught in our fires" -Kador Ouryon
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danie braz
Krusual Covert Operators
Minmatar Republic
70
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Posted - 2014.09.04 21:05:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:Ydubbs81 RND wrote:True Adamance wrote:Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.
Top end speed vs acceleration.
Fluoride uranium carbon potassium bismuth technetium helium sulfur germanium thulium Molybdenum neon yttrium
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Maximus Aurelicus
Gallente Federation Resistance
1
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Posted - 2014.09.04 23:24:00 -
[90] - Quote
Ok, I didn't read all the posts but your wrong mate. The better top speed in Gallente vehicles? Does''t mean anything but that they can run faster in a certain direction "only going straight" i.e. vector accelaration. Caldari vehicles have much, much superior turning speed and acceration making them much superior in the bumpy confines of dust for movement.
I'm surprised all of you forum posters don't know this, play the game before you post. A gallente vehicle needs an injector or afterburner just to keep moving steadily, especially if you put an even slight armor stack.
From what I'm hearing my guess is that you are armor stacking Gunnlogis and complaining like every other nerf crier.
Try this- Take any caldari vehicle, put an injector or afterburner, remove all of those dubious armor stacks and GO for a DRIVE. My guess is some of you will stfu afterwards. A Gunnlogi can run circles around Madrugers whilst the madruger tries to turn. A Onikuma can enter places Baloches can't due to smaller frame and even have turning capability making much better transport for the once again bumpy maps of Dust. A Python can aim it's primary turret about 5 times better then an Incubus.
The speed Gallente vehicles get, is GONE when it TURNS. Some of you clearly need to play the game more, and whine less. No hard feelings.
MCCs need internal drop-hatch friendly damage over time like heat, war effects, hazards, anti-traitor systems etc.
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