Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets.

Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones.

It never made much sense to me either, but I've known about it for a long time. I would rather have it on the Caldari suit instead. It does make no sense for the Gallente to have it though. Caldari is supposed to be more e-war based, it should have some precision and the enormous range, henceforth reflecting the radar bonuses, i.e. e-war.

Perhaps, CCP's logic was that they wanted all scout suits to have double abilities, so Caldari has dampening/range. Gallente is precision/dampening, Minja is knives/hacking, and Amarr is stamina/precision. If Caldari was still precision/range, Gallente would be left with nothing but double dampening bonus.

Again, it has no relevance as to what Eve is doing, but in the context of Dust Caldari vehicles have lower top speeds but greater acceleration. Why would you want a Gunnlogi? Because it can turn corners faster which is pretty important. Although Madrugars can get fast when moving in a straight line, the amount of time that takes the Madrugar to reach that superior speed is likely to get annihilated by the other teams red line turrets as it will have pushed too far too fast in most cases. That or it has to pop some injectors which don't last long and can equally push it into over extension. Likewise you can fit them on a Gunnlogi as well to about perform the same while still being highly maneuverable when its on cool down. I've lost many a Madrugar to just not being able to accelerate out of trouble.

Edit: I'm not saying Madrugars are useless of course only that both have their place, Madrugars have higher E/hp and can achieve higher speeds but the Gunnlogi does have greater maneuverability.

Really?

All Gal Tanks have over Caldari Tanks is reps. They most certainly do not have more EHP.

5300 Shield *1.4 = 7420 (modified my regen) + 1500 Armour = 8920

Not to mention the flexibility of mounting 2 ADV Rail Turrets and a Prototype Missile Turret. Enabling you to effectively mount 3 players in a Gunlogi like this and never have issues with any enemy tank on field through sheer DPS and endurance. Has fair mobility, great tracking, and av top speed.

On the other hand you can barely fit a prototype turret, basic module Armour tank, and can't if ever fit small turrets for enhanced DPS.

Best tank from a Madrugar is

4000 Armour *1.25 = 5000 Armour (modified my reps) = 1200 = 6200

No small turrets or better modules than a ADV hardener, Proto Repper, and Adv repper..... due to lack of CPU and the inability to mod it out to expand your fitting capacity without reducing your tank.

So here you compare a modularly superior and more flexible HAV with vastly more fire power (the Gunlogi) designed to be used solo (with the potential for more EHP) and in a squad vs a tank that is effectually designed to be played solo with most of the AV and Vehicle Turrets weapons in the game having bonus damage against it. Additionally has less mobility and can only beat out the Gunlogi is straight sprints.

Who would complain about Shield HAV?

Pointing out that players denying the traditional root of Dust, New Eden and EVE (the successful half of the franchise) is foolish. You either want a game set in New Eden, therefore the established rules and racial trends of EVE races are followed closesly, or you do not, and you can ignore them.

But don' t pretend like the current iterations of the vehicles accurately reflect their races combat doctrines.

Fitting out an HAV should be the same as fitting out a frigate module wise.

Why have you not accouted for optimised fittings. You are choosing base hulls and telling me that you believe that is an accurate indicator of which tank to pick?

I mention the regen modifier because it affects EHP, however I do not have the mathematical bent to work out the effect that armour reps have on EHP.

As for the Blaster thing? Really? You can't either blap them as they approach or have the durability on your HAV to last the..... less than 10 second reload speed (with skills)?

I don't see why they don't already follow the racial combat doctrines? It's a design flaw that never truly made sense to me. Also give that we do have gravity to contend with perhaps the racial roles in terms of mobility should be inverted?

Who knows. Perhaps that was the original intent.

It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary.

NO THEY DON'T HAVE MORE EHP, unless the two repairers contribute 3000EHP over the duration of the fight, which they very well might.

try playing eve.
gallente stuff is faster and caldari stuff is slower for the most part.
its call racial playstyle.

when you have a drake that can sit between 2 hostile battleships for 20 minutes without taking any damage you dont need to be able to move fast.

So you would say.

"Hey next street fighter game lets have Ken be stronger and Ryu be faster. It might wholly go against the premise of the characters and the X years of history this franchise has put forwards but hell what the **** do we care if the characters are not done justice."

he has been, youre not listening


take regen, resists, range, rofs and 'true' or 'optimized' fittings into account and you might actually learn something instead of sperging about.

We have been saying that since day fcking one.

People such as yourself have been clamouring for a different game the entire time.

Just stop.

Lets take two sets of fits

Standard Hulls

Gunlogi
2650 Shield 1500 Armour = 4150

Madrugar

1200 Shields 4000 Armou = 5200

This is reflective of their total HP. These values are not modified by any modules.

Now lets take two more optimised fits that I would use.

Gunlogi
2x Complex Shield Extenders
1x Advanaced Shield Hardener
1x Complex PG Upgrade
1x ADV 120mm Plates
1x XT-201
2x Partical Accelerator

(Yes I can fit all of this on with maxed skills)

5300 Shields 2950 Armour = 8250 HP (not yet modified by the Shield Hardener) means this is rHP (real HP)

5300 x 1.4 = 7420 Shields + 2950 Armour = 10370 EHP (effective HP)

Madrugar
1x Neutron Blasters
2x Complex Heavy Armour Reppers
1x Basic Armour Hardener
1x Nitrous Injector
0x Small Turrets

(this is all I can fit as CPU is too tight)

1200 Shields 4000 Armour = 5200 rHP

1200 Shields 4000 Armour (modified by the 275 reps per second) = X HP or the correct EHP

or you can try to buffer tank a madrugar

3x 120mm plates (2x 120mm 1x 60mm)
1x Nitrous
1x Ion Cannon

1200 Shields 8454 Armour = 9654

you CAN NOT make a game set in the same make believe land DIFFERENT because it undercuts all lore/mechanics blah ******* blah blahs of both games.

But thats what they did.

instead of following doctrines and principles well established in the giant space tactical spreadsheet game of eve, they continuously listening to the mewlings of console shooters who wanted it more twichty, more indescript, more rehash of everything else.

You won, and us who came here to play eves battlefields lost.



and now we re recanting the tale and youre arguing?

i dont ******* understand you!

As much as I lament that the original ideal of Dust was corrupted........ I really am just here to point out how good Caldari Tanks are.

Which is why you cannot play a Gunlogi like a Maddy.

You cannot treat and engagement the same way. For example....brawling with a Blaster tank while in a rail is always stupid without damage mods to alpha through those reps + hardener.

However the point is you said Gunlogis don't have EHP = to Armour tanks...... on paper they do, and its because of that shield tanks are the ultimate IMO for anti Tank combat.

Great manoeuvrability, more modular (aka you can fit them out more specifically), can take any turret type.

Now if you compared those two HAV fits in their prime. Maddy is a tough fight. But combined DPS , while 2x ADV rail guns break the reps and hardener of the Armour tank means you will come out on top every time.

In my mind Caldari tanks are vastly superior.

For the reasons I have stated but also because its a better anti infantry platform.....seriously try leaving the hardener on that fit on and manning a small turret....... ignores AV......gets +5 kills.

It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem.

So statistically the Madruga is the only tank to use, absolute boss of a vehicle...

Perhaps try using them, The Gunlogi is the 'go to' tank...


If you put a rail turret on a Madruga I will eat you alive, missiles will thrash anything with armour, plus you wont be able to turn that turret fast enough to keep up with the acceleration & turn speed of the Gunlogi.

Gunlogi > Madruga.


After the reverse speed nerf in the next hotfix...

YOu wouldn't put a rail on a maddy. But a maddy with blaster will smoke a missile tank. ONLY way a missile would survive is if they sneak up on them without them knowing and get all of their shots in beforethey can react.

Gunlogi > A bucket on your head > Madruga.

Gallente vehicles have higher top speed but the acceleration is much less. For example a gunlogi will allways turn much faster then a madrugar and can move quicker into cover.

The handling is so much quicker and tighter and it's very rare that a Maddy would survive long enough if it's retreating for the speed difference to become noticeable.

First off it's 2650hp + 1500hp for Gunnlogi, secondly EVERYTHING beats a Madrugar with a blaster in 1v1. EVERYTHING.
Rail maddy beats it, missile maddy beats it, rail gunny beats it, missile gunny beats it and blaster gunny beats it. Why? Because all those have higher dps (blaster gunny has higher dps cause you can fit dmg mod) and especially when you are in a Gunnlogi you are invulnerable to blasters when you activate your harderner.

That's so over simplified that I must reply to that with something equally as oversimplified:
Madrugar is faster, accelerates slower, handles worse. Is weaker against other tanks. Stronger against AV.
Gunnlogi is slower, accelerates faster, handles better. Is stronger against other tanks. Weaker against AV.

Still need to go for even more simple reply?

Madrugar is faster but Gunnlogi is stronger.

Hey RND remember me ? Id am that guy you were stomping over and over with your strafing skills while shooting a six kin cr. Well how does it feel now to have to use precision enhancers instead of shield exteners ?

Enjoy your hotfix XD

Afterburners for dropships, injectors for ground vehicles. Are you talking about replacing extenders with amplifiers? They're a personal choice really you can put them on ADS as much as railtanks but keep in mind Gunnlogis cannot point their turrets at a certain place and have bigger butts unlike the Madruger's tiny butt.

I've never fitted a vehicle with wrong boosters but have stolen plenty

As for the rest of you guys shields have more "effective" ehp then armor due to fact most AV and Missiles are Explosive based doing 120%-129% damage to armor but only 80%-72%(or was it 71% cant remember atm) damage to shields.

Thus 2650 shields=3180ehp(Gunnlogi base) vs AV whilst 4000 armor=3200ehp vs AV(Madruger base). That 20 shield difference is easily upset by the uber fast speed and regen Caldari vehicles get. They are the real powerbase. With only weakness to slow aiming railtanks and close range blastertanks and the completely ineffective due to speed plasma cannon. Even Forgeguns(Rail class) do 90% vs 110% damage.

Quit whining about this and play the fcking game first, most of you don't know what your talking about. No hard feelings. ^^

Ydubbs, Im not gonig to lie, I rejoiced when you quit. Your 'crypost' when you left made me nearly ecstatic, do you want to know why?

Because for months all you'd ever do was hold a counter opinion to what was an agreed up consensus by the forum community, then badger and berrate your way into imprinting your usually wrong point into the less knowledgeable.
There was much crying and wailing from you and your camp anytime anything was changed or heaven forbid, balanced.

And now you're back, doing the same stupid arrogant idiotic shenanigans as before.

True, Patrick and Marsdon are some of the most knowledgeable, highest skilled and courteous armor drivers left. I'd listen to what they are telling you.

Yes, Tomhanks and company can roll your face with a blaster maddy.

Did you EVER stop to consider that possibly, they have entirely maxed out armor skill trees? And that they most likely were rolling over infantry while in the blaster maddy until some scrub tank rolled up and pissed them off?

Circumstantial and Anecdotal evidence IS NOT EVIDENCE for your point.

I honestly don't know why anyone responds to you anymore.

Myself included.

and your completely wrong because im not comparing another game. this is eve. look in the upper left corner of your screen and read me the title.
EVE: dust 514.

this is part of eve online. the races need to behave the same across the board. this is the same universe.
thats one of the taglines for the game. ONE UNIVERSE. the same rules apply eveywhere. ccp shanghai just didnt follow the rules and here we are talking about fundamentals that arent a problem in eve because eve is already balanced using the rules that have been established for years. dust deviated. dust is at fault.

ask any dev, ask any mod ask any person. what universe is this? new eden.
this isnt a game in a closed space. its a very small system called molden heath that exists within minmatar space within eve online. anyone who says dust isnt part of eve online and eve lore shouldnt apply here is just wrong.
no debate.

wrong.

Gal has always had precision and dampening, since the start of uprising.

Gunnlogis have better resistance to swarms and forges, so they have that advantage (just have to avoid fluxes....and blaster turrets)