DUST Search - I HAVE 2 QUESTIONS.....

True Adamance wrote:

Ydubbs81 RND wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

medomai grey wrote:

True Adamance wrote:

Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets.

By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower?

Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones.

How does that apply to Dust? We don't have any drones

Pointing out that players denying the traditional root of Dust, New Eden and EVE (the successful half of the franchise) is foolish. You either want a game set in New Eden, therefore the established rules and racial trends of EVE races are followed closesly, or you do not, and you can ignore them.

But don' t pretend like the current iterations of the vehicles accurately reflect their races combat doctrines.

Fitting out an HAV should be the same as fitting out a frigate module wise.


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TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 580	Posted - 2014.09.04 03:48:00 - [1] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. I don't think I understand this statement, do you mean they don't have sprinting upgrades? They also don't have armor plates weighing them down (At least not the proper Caldari suits) so I am not sure what you mean. Typically the Caldari are only beat out in natural speed (Not kincat sprinting buffs) by Minmitar... hardly "notoriously slow." Stick to Amarr brick tanking, and let the other roles define themselves, not every suit is meant to brick tank.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 580	Posted - 2014.09.04 03:54:00 - [2] - Quote True Adamance wrote: medomai grey wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. Oh you are talking Eve.... From everything I have been told of Eve Dust is clearly not Eve in how the ground infantry were designed. And honestly why would it be? Why would your spaceships behave the same as your ground forces? Why would a MIG be slow like a Russian Tank when speed is critical to a jet fighters combat effectiveness? Why do Eve players not into strategy? I thought Eve players were supposed to be all about strategy.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 580	Posted - 2014.09.04 03:59:00 - [3] - Quote medomai grey wrote: True Adamance wrote: medomai grey wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. But the Caldari tank has less base EHP than the Gallente tank while also being slower. The point being made is, why should players use Caldari tanks when Gallente tanks are faster and have more EHP. Again, it has no relevance as to what Eve is doing, but in the context of Dust Caldari vehicles have lower top speeds but greater acceleration. Why would you want a Gunnlogi? Because it can turn corners faster which is pretty important. Although Madrugars can get fast when moving in a straight line, the amount of time that takes the Madrugar to reach that superior speed is likely to get annihilated by the other teams red line turrets as it will have pushed too far too fast in most cases. That or it has to pop some injectors which don't last long and can equally push it into over extension. Likewise you can fit them on a Gunnlogi as well to about perform the same while still being highly maneuverable when its on cool down. I've lost many a Madrugar to just not being able to accelerate out of trouble. Edit: I'm not saying Madrugars are useless of course only that both have their place, Madrugars have higher E/hp and can achieve higher speeds but the Gunnlogi does have greater maneuverability.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 581	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:19:00 - [4] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: So, they get higher ehp and speeds and all gunnlogis have is maneuverability. Maddys also rep armor much better than gunnlogi shields because there is no delay. Plus their armor hardeners are better than shield hardeners. Not to mention, some of these armor tanks appear to maneuver with ease, especially when they hit that fuel injector. Maneuverability hardly seems to be a great tradeoff It is if you are trying to get around the battlefield or need to GTFO of the battlefield. It especially will become more valuable to use a Gunnlogi since Rattatai has mentioned for the Delta patch that they might be nerfing the effectiveness of injectors on tanks. It's also easier to maneuver a Missile or Rail Turret on a Gunnlogi since the Gunnlogi can turn faster while stationary.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 581	Posted - 2014.09.04 04:23:00 - [5] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: medomai grey wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. By this logic, shouldn't the Caldari tank have more EHP than the Gallente tank in exchange for being slower? Not really..... you don't really find those distinctions in EVE..... Caldari stuff is slow and has a lot of EHP...... Gallente ships are moderately fast for armour tankers....... and also have solid EHP....and drones. How does that apply to Dust? We don't have any drones Pointing out that players denying the traditional root of Dust, New Eden and EVE (the successful half of the franchise) is foolish. You either want a game set in New Eden, therefore the established rules and racial trends of EVE races are followed closesly, or you do not, and you can ignore them. But don' t pretend like the current iterations of the vehicles accurately reflect their races combat doctrines. Fitting out an HAV should be the same as fitting out a frigate module wise. Because that's how combined arms wars are fought in the real world. Everyone knows that a military doctrine is uniform and racially specific according to their nationality. Navies employ the same tactics that Armies employ based upon nationality and not on efficiency /sarcasm. I get it man, you are a well established lore nerd for Eve. CCP didn't make this game about floating dropsuits that point and click to fire mah guns. It's not the same game and it will never be the same game. Every really wonky ****** up thing i've seen implemented especially when it comes to skill bonuses has been because people bitched that "Eve does it like this!" And all it does is bring changes no one really wanted to satisfy some lore nerds and further imbalance the game until Rattatai undoes the boo boos.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 588	Posted - 2014.09.04 12:35:00 - [6] - Quote Ydubbs81 RND wrote: Maybe if Dust had spaceships, then you can take it there. But still..even if you wanted to keep things inline with eve then the dropsuits, lavs, dropships, should all apply the same ideas. Even down to the weapons (faster ROF, more power, etc) This has been my point that gets ignored in the Eve conversations. I get that people want Eve and Dust to line up but they don't. This game would probably have to be remade not just simple balance issues to make the game behave like Eve. Every little detail in the past would have to be revisited. The games core mechanics will have to be rebuilt. It is far easier for the Devs to not be time wasting morons and simply conclude that the ground warfare =/= space warfare in the lore. Which makes plenty of sense, because in the real world military strategy is not copy pasted from naval to air to ground strategy. I'm all for players pushing Legion to behave like Eve, but for Dust it is far too late and retroactively trying to fix it has been breaking this game. Logi bonuses, assault bonuses, all these ****** bonuses that broke the original synergy and made many suits inferior bonus wise all occurred because forum warriors bitched to CCP that the game should behave like Eve.
TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 590	Posted - 2014.09.04 20:25:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Ydubbs81 RND wrote: True Adamance wrote: Caldari stuff is notoriously slow....... unless specifically kitted out for speed..... then its about as fast as it gets. There is no other instance in Dust where a gallente item is faster than a caldari item. Even back in the closed beta, the type 1 assault suits were slower than the type II assault suits. Madrugars are stacked with 4000hp or armor, I don't understand the logic of why it's faster than a gunnlogi. Maddy's already have the advantage of having more health and their hardeners are better. Why are they faster? It was like that when I got here? I don't know all the reasons, but I knew, have wondered the same, but haven't focused on it as a problem. I think the other devs probably thought of it in terms of momentum. The gallente vehicles are heavier and therefor accelerate slower but also have a higher top speed once they finally accelerate due to the monster of an engine that had to be built to move it in the first place. On the other hand, I imagine the Caldari vehicles are lighter so they accelerate faster but don't have as strong of an engine as the performance is adequate as is. From everything I've heard that is the hallmark of the Caldari, efficiency.