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Scrambler rifle again with the too strong bs.

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Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 85	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:20:00 - [1] - Quote Its not too strong. everyone leaves out the fact if you fire one too many rounds in intense fire fights. it locks up for 5s. It does 50 damage to you and the lock up stops everything but walking. 9/10 if it overheat it means your dead. Also if your dying fast please stop using E-war Assaults. I see too many assaults out there with less then 500 EHP. I don't know when this became a thing but if you run the numbers E-war outside of scouts is pointless to the point of being not even worth stating into. Also if your running anything that lightens your EHP don't think you can still stand in fire at me. I see that happen a lot. I dance the bullet dance and you stand there taking head shots. that is your own fault for dying no one else. Head shots skyrocket damage. I am using a marksmen weapon. I do go for the head shots. I don't see the RR, CR, or AR having a disadvantage as big as 5s lock up and 50 damage if you don't use it right. I don't even see them really having draw backs besides range. The tiny spool up time on the RR has people even using it in CQC. the CR and AR really don't have one if you keep in its effective range. so if all guns can overhead then maybe the scrambler needs a nerf. but they don't so they don't need ****** with any more then the flaylock needs a nerf. That thing wrecks if you get hit by the rounds. if your only doing splash it sucks ya but direct hits are deadly. Hell wanna know one worse then the Scrambler for pens? The laser rifle. 5s lock up and 175 damage on overheat. I might be off on its lock up time. If not its very dangerous. Hense why it does such amazing damage. you can literally kill yourself if your not careful rather insanely easily.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2188	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:22:00 - [2] - Quote so the scrambler rifle is bad because of an overheat effect that only bad players and those not used the to weapon succumb to? Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 85	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:25:00 - [3] - Quote No I am saying its not as insanely easy and powerful as most people on this forum are bitching about. In good fights you pretty much need the Amarr assault suit to even mater. most high EHP with mostly armor suits make this take like 1.5-3s to kill depending on how much of it is armor. Heavy armor suits in general are nuts to try and down even if you get the jump on them. I am saying I don't like all the op talk when they don't even know the basic draw backs of the weapon they ***** about.
Atiim 11722	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:25:00 - [4] - Quote Atiim wrote: Less dispersion than weapons specifically designed for CQC RoF that can't be reached by humans if this is fine, may I have my pre-nerf TAR back? DUST 514's 1st Matari Commando -HAND
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 85	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:29:00 - [5] - Quote That quote means next to nothing to me. please state your argument clearly. Also if your referring to the fact some less then respectful people are using turbo controllers to reach beyond the human norm for firing. that is a separate mater that needs handling and in no way means the scrambler needs a nerf. you do not nerf things based off cheating. My average RPS is somewher around 8-10 depending on my day. 10 is if somehow the stars aline and the gods smile upon me. becaues normaly 8-9 is my max with it. I have never gotten the full 11 rounds out really. I might in a panic fire but almost without fail it will overheat and lock the hell up. Also your Tac didn't over heat so gtfo. your argument is invalid based off the fact it had no drawback at that speed unlike firing a scrambler. it has short bursts of high damage because if it did low or moderate damage. it would be worthless combined with the fact you can not sustain fire for much longer then between 1.0-2.0s. unlike your AR, CR, and RR. you can just puke rounds down range all day long with no pen besides maybe needing to stop for a part of second after most of a clip to let the recoil lower slightly. still not as bad as the 2-2.5 seconds of heat cool down we deal with. ITs balanced completely differently then the AR, CR, and RR because of its differences. You can't "balance" it by the exact same rules. It will be worthless because the AR, CR, and RR dont have. 1. Heat. 2. Self damage. 3. Short bursts of damage cut off by cool down. 4.Lock up if heat max is reached. 5. No ability to defend oneself if lock up happens. Dodging is your best friend vs the scrambler chances are if we miss a few shots you will live and we will have to take cover. this is your chance to grenade or charge us.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2188	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:40:00 - [6] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: That quote means next to nothing to me. please state your argument clearly. Also if your referring to the fact some less then respectful people are using turbo controllers to reach beyond the human norm for firing. that is a separate mater that needs handling and in no way means the scrambler needs a nerf. you do not nerf things based off cheating. My average RPS is somewher around 8-10 depending on my day. 10 is if somehow the stars aline and the gods smile upon me. becaues normaly 8-9 is my max with it. I have never gotten the full 11 rounds out really. I might in a panic fire but almost without fail it will overheat and lock the hell up. the real issue is that even within the bounds of human limitations the weapon has a 150-200 dps advantage over every other gun including the burst combat rifle. the burst combat rifle has a cap of 400 bursts per minuite wich is 50 under the human limitations (ish) and has to be timed absolutly perfectly to achieve that due to the firing animation so it doesnt have the same OP flavor. the scrabler however doesnt have a firing animation and can be fires at insane speeds as even if the human limitation is around 450 RPM thats calculated as an average and in short bursts even a human can break that barrier for gains of 300DPS over other rifles. in short its OP becuase it can achieve a 300 DPS advantage over every rifle in the game even without a turbo controller Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 263	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:43:00 - [7] - Quote Lol. I dunno what ScR you're using, but mine rips through all suits that are not Sentinels. CRW and Viziam are my go to weapons on my adv and pro scout, this is at prof. 4 without damage mods. Amarr assault suit users can fire of 15 or so more rounds, and if you overheat using the assault suit you're a total noob. That suit has the strongest bonus of all assault suits. I have the Amarr assault on my alt at proto, and it's the best assault out there right now with the minmatar. WTF you mean RR has no drawback. Ever heard of kick, something the scrambler doesn't have.
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 85	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:45:00 - [8] - Quote What part of short bursts of high damage don't you get? The CR also melts me faster then I can react at times. So your argument is kinda flimsy. I die more to a CR then I ever do to scrambler users. hell I find most scrambler users at the moment to be rather scrubby. I die more to AR users. So do they need a nerf since you know we die to them so much something must be off. Also currently there are more scrubsusing the scrmabler then actually people that enjoy it because of that FOTOM crap or whatever it is.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2188	Posted - 2014.08.30 14:49:00 - [9] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: What part of short bursts of high damage don't you get? The CR also melts me faster then I can react at times. So your argument is kinda flimsy. I die more to a CR then I ever do to scrambler users. hell I find most scrambler users at the moment to be rather scrubby. I die more to AR users. So do they need a nerf since you know we die to them so much something must be off. Also currently there are more scrubsusing the scrmabler then actually people that enjoy it because of that FOTOM crap or whatever it is. arguments based in math are the oposite of flimsey what part of 300more DPS then every other rifle including the max of the burst combat rifle is flimsy? they need a nerf because of the dps, not because of people dieing to them so much i thought i made that clear when my entire argument was focused on the dps and firing mechanics. Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Gelhad Thremyr Never 2 Late 329	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:00:00 - [10] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: What part of short bursts of high damage don't you get? The CR also melts me faster then I can react at times. So your argument is kinda flimsy. I die more to a CR then I ever do to scrambler users. hell I find most scrambler users at the moment to be rather scrubby. I die more to AR users. So do they need a nerf since you know we die to them so much something must be off. Also currently there are more scrubsusing the scrmabler then actually people that enjoy it because of that FOTOM crap or whatever it is. arguments based in math are the oposite of flimsey what part of 300more DPS then every other rifle including the max of the burst combat rifle is flimsy? they need a nerf because of the dps, not because of people dieing to them so much i thought i made that clear when my entire argument was focused on the dps and firing mechanics. They dont need a nerf i hqve been using itsince its introduction without moded controller and even at lvl5 amar suit i cant even come close to the scout and shotgun kill ratio, this is in part cause i use the ds3 and i still lock up and die sometimes in the heat of the moment. I do see and acknowledge a problem with modded controllers as was reported in the forum, there are flawed mechanics that need to be per shot and the max rof of the weapon should be slightly lower cause it would not affect me that much using manual firing. I also am at a disadvantage against mouse and keyboard that strafe with basic rifles. Hell i get two shot dow by a militia shotgun now with the dmg mod even at 1100 ehp ! So dont bring the nerf bat on that one its not prevalent that much anyway !

Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 86	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:01:00 - [11] - Quote Because oh mathy one. Take for instance how we have to take 2-3+ breaks depending on suit level and weapon skill level on one clip. meaning there are somewhere between 2-6s of down time. then 2s or reload with no mistakes. If you make a mistake well it can be between 2-15s of cool down. Also if mistakes are made 50 damage is taken. Also in some good fights you need to overheat to finish them before they finish you. Because having that HMG spin up and turn at you is doom. So stop acting like DPS math is all that is involved in "balance". because the "balance" you want will not balance the game it will ruin it. Your not taking into account down time. The risks vs reward of the playstyle or anything really besides RPS and damage. if you do that then a lot of weapons need a nerf when in reality it doesn't.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2188	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:09:00 - [12] - Quote Gelhad Thremyr wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: What part of short bursts of high damage don't you get? The CR also melts me faster then I can react at times. So your argument is kinda flimsy. I die more to a CR then I ever do to scrambler users. hell I find most scrambler users at the moment to be rather scrubby. I die more to AR users. So do they need a nerf since you know we die to them so much something must be off. Also currently there are more scrubsusing the scrmabler then actually people that enjoy it because of that FOTOM crap or whatever it is. arguments based in math are the oposite of flimsey what part of 300more DPS then every other rifle including the max of the burst combat rifle is flimsy? they need a nerf because of the dps, not because of people dieing to them so much i thought i made that clear when my entire argument was focused on the dps and firing mechanics. They dont need a nerf i hqve been using itsince its introduction without moded controller and even at lvl5 amar suit i cant even come close to the scout and shotgun kill ratio, this is in part cause i use the ds3 and i still lock up and die sometimes in the heat of the moment. I do see and acknowledge a problem with modded controllers as was reported in the forum, there are flawed mechanics that need to be per shot and the max rof of the weapon should be slightly lower cause it would not affect me that much using manual firing. I also am at a disadvantage against mouse and keyboard that strafe with basic rifles. Hell i get two shot dow by a militia shotgun now with the dmg mod even at 1100 ehp ! So dont bring the nerf bat on that one its not prevalent that much anyway ! if you want to compair the scout shotgun with the scrambler you have to compair it to the scout/scrambler combo its an absolute hard counter to every other scout, you basically cant play scout with a good scout/scrambler on the other team are you saying having a 300dps advantage over plasma rifle rail rifle combat rifle isnt something that needs to be adressed? (and im not refering to modded controllers here, im talking within human ability with practice) Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Mejt0 The Only Survivor. 428	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:11:00 - [13] - Quote Its more of modded controllers, not gun itself. ScR have advantage. High damage over short time, but after this you have to wait. Other guns have stable dps output. About RR. It kick isnt drawback. People are using RR in CQC better than AR can. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 88	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:11:00 - [14] - Quote omfg moron stop taking just the damage and RPS. Look at the long picture and the risk reward as well. stop being a moron with math for a miniute and check more then just the damage output for the first second to second and a half. I asked nicely now I am just gonna be blunt. Stop and look at the whole weapon not just the trigger and holes it makes.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2188	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:14:00 - [15] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Because oh mathy one. Take for instance how we have to take 2-3+ breaks depending on suit level and weapon skill level on one clip. meaning there are somewhere between 2-6s of down time. then 2s or reload with no mistakes. If you make a mistake well it can be between 2-15s of cool down. Also if mistakes are made 50 damage is taken. Also in some good fights you need to overheat to finish them before they finish you. Because having that HMG spin up and turn at you is doom. So stop acting like DPS math is all that is involved in "balance". because the "balance" you want will not balance the game it will ruin it. Your not taking into account down time. The risks vs reward of the playstyle or anything really besides RPS and damage. if you do that then a lot of weapons need a nerf when in reality it doesn't. its called having an SMG as a sidearm, shoot untill close to overheat and swap to SMG as finisher, you do so much dps with the scrambler that they have next to no HP left for the SMG to finish off. you dont need to take breaks or reload... just unleash insane dps and swap before overheat and its a win as long as your not an idiot. with the scrambler you can even eat down an armor stacked suit to half or 1/3ed armor HP within that 1 second burst of DPS and just swap instead of giving a break for it to cool down. your not taking into account that there is no downtime Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2188	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:15:00 - [16] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: omfg moron stop taking just the damage and RPS. Look at the long picture and the risk reward as well. stop being a moron with math for a miniute and check more then just the damage output for the first second to second and a half. I asked nicely now I am just gonna be blunt. Stop and look at the whole weapon not just the trigger and holes it makes. TL:DR of this thread "Im bad with the weapon so it clearly isnt OP" Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 263	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:17:00 - [17] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Its more of modded controllers, not gun itself. ScR have advantage. High damage over short time, but after this you have to wait. Other guns have stable dps output. About RR. It kick isnt drawback. People are using RR in CQC better than AR can. Because at base no profiency the RR is better than the AR. Newer players look at damage, so stock the RR is better than the AR. An AR with sharpshooter and prof 3 on the other hand will poop on a RR prof 3 CQC 9 out 10 times, when they're both medium frames
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 263	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:18:00 - [18] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: omfg moron stop taking just the damage and RPS. Look at the long picture and the risk reward as well. stop being a moron with math for a miniute and check more then just the damage output for the first second to second and a half. I asked nicely now I am just gonna be blunt. Stop and look at the whole weapon not just the trigger and holes it makes. TL:DR of this thread "Im bad with the weapon so it clearly isnt OP" LOL, I know right. Comparing it to shotgun scouts too...
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 88	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:18:00 - [19] - Quote God you people are stupid and ignorant. I am sorry you beloved CR suddenly has to work to kill us just a little but damn stop bitching about a weapon that is good but not OP. Also the SMG is on the list of actually OP weapons when compared to side arms. Side arms are that back ups that do less damage and don't work out as well as primary. The SMG currently is being ran as a primary by some. Its already on the chopping block for a nerf. So don't use weapons actually on the chopping block for nerfs to say how easy it is. its just a fake tacky attempt to discredit a weapon that doesn't need a nerf.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2188	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:18:00 - [20] - Quote Jack 3enimble wrote: Mejt0 wrote: Its more of modded controllers, not gun itself. ScR have advantage. High damage over short time, but after this you have to wait. Other guns have stable dps output. About RR. It kick isnt drawback. People are using RR in CQC better than AR can. Because at base no profiency the RR is better than the AR. Newer players look at damage, so stock the RR is better than the AR. An AR with sharpshooter and prof 3 on the other hand will poop on a RR prof 3 CQC 9 out 10 times, when they're both medium frames this is correct, the RR is absolutly terrible in CQC in competitive play compaired to all 3 of the other rifles Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2188	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:26:00 - [21] - Quote Unfortunatly it apears that you do not have the skills to play this weapon competitivly and therefore any insight you have into the workings of this weapon in competitive gameplay is muddled by that inability to make it perform at its best leaving you with the false impression that it is "balanced" Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 88	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:29:00 - [22] - Quote Who are you talking to? you didn't quote anyone so it could be one of a few people. Also balance is more complex then just DPS. if it was that simple games would have perfect gun balance right off the bat. Well if I had a gun that did the dps of the CR but did it all in splash that is balanced then? because by your logic it is.
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 263	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:40:00 - [23] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Who are you talking to? you didn't quote anyone so it could be one of a few people. Also balance is more complex then just DPS. if it was that simple games would have perfect gun balance right off the bat. Well if I had a gun that did the dps of the CR but did it all in splash that is balanced then? because by your logic it is. He's talking to you
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2188	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:40:00 - [24] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Who are you talking to? you didn't quote anyone so it could be one of a few people. Also balance is more complex then just DPS. if it was that simple games would have perfect gun balance right off the bat. Well if I had a gun that did the dps of the CR but did it all in splash that is balanced then? because by your logic it is. i was refering to you sir. i have over a decade experiance with tweaking the inner workings and balancing/destabalising games im well aware of the many faucetts of balance within games. a weapon is overpowered when it oversteps its intended design and renders other previously valid options invalid creating a vacume in gameplay that shifts the common stratagy heavily in its favor the the exclusion of all else. this is what we are currently seeing with the scrambler rifle its current DPS advantage alows it to open so strongly that the fight is over in that first second of gameplay, the utility of this makes any CQC fight for medium/scout frames so heavily dominated by the scrambler rifle that it renders any other stratagy obsolete. in addition to that its long range damage application makes it ideal for long range combat as well. its not simply about numbers, its about gameplay, design and how fights play out.. it renders everything except for a scrambler rifle scout obsolete it renders every weapon on a medium frame obsolete due to those mediums no longer being able to compete with the only option scouts now have. so we now only have 3 archtypes in competitive gameplay scrabler smg scout scrambler/smg medium hmg sentinal when high level gameplay is dominated by so few options we call that imbalance, not because we are trying to balance things amungst themselves but because idealy in any game you want to see variety, and when one stratagy completly removes variety from gameplay it is deemed "overpowered" not because it is powerful but because it removes options and therefore playstyles from the game wich from a balance perspective is a sign of an unhealthy metagame. in a game with so many options having the primary stratagys refined to such a small amount of variation is a bad thing and isnt the intended design of the game as a whole. Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
xSir Campsalotx Pure Evil. 203	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:42:00 - [25] - Quote How is this even up for debate? Scrambler has horrible damage profile 120/80 against half the suits in the game, overheats, needs to cool down between bursts, and is horrible against strafey scouts or assualts for that matter. Not to mention is the only semi Assualt Rifle besides the Gal Tac which is rarely used and even that one doesn't have overheat. On the dispersion point you overlook a simple fact scrambler rifles yes start off with decent Hipfire but Gal ARs and CRs can get tighter dispersion through the use of the sharpshooter skill. CR has 95/110 damage profile so it is effective against both shield and armor. Even the 110/90 Gal Ar profile is much more balanced.
Mejt0 The Only Survivor. 428	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:52:00 - [26] - Quote People are claiming its that much OP, yet i can see 99% playerbase uses CR/RR/HMG (and SG). PC now are all about Bust HMG, CR and SG. Theres one truth about ScR, that it does very high damage over short time. However after that it needs time to do it again. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
xSir Campsalotx Pure Evil. 203	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:54:00 - [27] - Quote Oh so that's why all you see in competitive PC is scramblers... Oh no wait CRs are still king in the AR department no way? When I ask other corp mates why they don't use the scrambler they say "overheat" and unreliable in a pinch. This is solely because ever AR plays the same, you put a mag in with x shots you can fire x times and switch to your choice of sidearm, except in the case of the scrambler you fire your first 15-17shots and your forced to switch weapons (which is lowering dps), cool off (which severely lowers dps) or overheat (usually ending in death)
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 88	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:54:00 - [28] - Quote Like I said DPS DPS DPS DPS is all hes looking at. he doesn't care to look at anything else. He is lying to himself at this point because he keeps saying it. just because you try to act intelligent doesn't make it so. A. Because CR rapes anyones face point blank out to 20M+ B. Because RR has longer range game and better dispersion then the scrambler or magic bullets as some say. C. because point blank shotguns destroy people still. D. Nova knives even have good odds of getting you with the strafe suits. E. your only looking at DPS. F. your a noob that pretends to be intelligent and fails. G. I stopped caring about your opinion when it was all about DPS for five posts. Blowing off all other facts. So please good sir. Leave before you make a bigger ass of yourself or at the least leave and look over everything instead of the massive bias in your view of the weapon. I didn't hear any agument about anything other then DPS. Oh and you being super condescending.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2188	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:54:00 - [29] - Quote xSir Campsalotx wrote: How is this even up for debate? Scrambler has horrible damage profile 120/80 against half the suits in the game, overheats, needs to cool down between bursts, and is horrible against strafey scouts or assualts for that matter. Not to mention is the only semi Assualt Rifle besides the Gal Tac which is rarely used and even that one doesn't have overheat. On the dispersion point you overlook a simple fact scrambler rifles yes start off with decent Hipfire but Gal ARs and CRs can get tighter dispersion through the use of the sharpshooter skill. CR has 95/110 damage profile so it is effective against both shield and armor. Even the 110/90 Gal Ar profile is much more balanced. you diddnt factor in proficiancy skills into your damage profiles sir Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Zindorak 1.U.P 733	Posted - 2014.08.30 15:54:00 - [30] - Quote Atiim wrote: Atiim wrote: Less dispersion than weapons specifically designed for CQC RoF that can't be reached by humans if this is fine, may I have my pre-nerf TAR back? Only if i get my pre-nerf ScP Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad

TheD1CK Dead Man's Game 1202	Posted - 2014.08.30 16:02:00 - [31] - Quote xSir Campsalotx wrote: How is this even up for debate? Scrambler has horrible damage profile 120/80 against half the suits in the game, overheats, needs to cool down between bursts, and is horrible against strafey scouts or assualts for that matter. Not to mention is the only semi Assualt Rifle besides the Gal Tac which is rarely used and even that one doesn't have overheat. On the dispersion point you overlook a simple fact scrambler rifles yes start off with decent Hipfire but Gal ARs and CRs can get tighter dispersion through the use of the sharpshooter skill. CR has 95/110 damage profile so it is effective against both shield and armor. Even the 110/90 Gal Ar profile is much more balanced. And on that note, It is the ONLY semi-auto Rifle bar the TAC AR Will we ever see a TAC CR/RR ? Innapropriate Irrelevence... Welcome to the Dust Forum, hang around to see why everyone else left :/
Ludvig Enraga KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 1118	Posted - 2014.08.30 16:13:00 - [32] - Quote everyone on Niyan San using it now. Nuff said. PLC, NK, Scout - before 1.8. That's right, I stack that OP Sh!t.
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 89	Posted - 2014.08.30 16:14:00 - [33] - Quote Uhhh everyone on that always use the same weapon each game. it changes but they seem to do it for ***** and giggles. so that post was pointless.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2189	Posted - 2014.08.30 16:23:00 - [34] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Uhhh everyone on that always use the same weapon each game. it changes but they seem to do it for ***** and giggles. so that post was pointless. At least to me personally the three times I fought them. one time it was all cloaks and nova knives x.x that was a damn slaughter. using pub matches as your benchmark is another mistake your making Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 89	Posted - 2014.08.30 16:28:00 - [35] - Quote I wasn't.... They guy before me said they all used it. I was pointing out it seems like they do weapon rotations.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2190	Posted - 2014.08.30 16:30:00 - [36] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: A. Because CR rapes anyones face point blank out to 20M+ B. Because RR has longer range game and better dispersion then the scrambler or magic bullets as some say. C. because point blank shotguns destroy people still. D. Nova knives even have good odds of getting you with the strafe suits. E. your only looking at DPS. F. your a noob that pretends to be intelligent and fails. G. I stopped caring about your opinion when it was all about DPS for five posts. Blowing off all other facts. A. Because the Scramvbler rifle SMG combo is better then the combat rifle at all ranges B. Because RR is so easily countered due to its low RoF C. because point scramblers destroy point blank shotguns D. Nova knives arnt viable in PC E. im only looking at compettive metagame and not pub matches F. I have a decade of experiance with game design G. your the type of person who will not awknolegde any position that doesnt directly confirm or contribute to your own reguardless of evedence or positions presented Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Jack 3enimble Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 263	Posted - 2014.08.30 16:40:00 - [37] - Quote xSir Campsalotx wrote: Oh so that's why all you see in competitive PC is scramblers... Oh no wait CRs are still king in the AR department no way? When I ask other corp mates why they don't use the scrambler they say "overheat" and unreliable in a pinch. This is solely because ever AR plays the same, you put a mag in with x shots you can fire x times and switch to your choice of sidearm, except in the case of the scrambler you fire your first 15-17shots and your forced to switch weapons (which is lowering dps), cool off (which severely lowers dps) or overheat (usually ending in death) Because the scrambler takes skill to use. If you can count to 20 and are not a cockeyed idiot you'll poop on all suits, including poor set up sentinels. I'm not saying I'm very skilled but in PC I run my scrambler most of the times to gank the scouts and mediums. I find the ScR to be the better weapon when facing combat rifles. Cooldown speed is very high let go for 1 Second and fire 5 more rounds.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2191	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:25:00 - [38] - Quote my arguments have included 1) it has a 50% or more dps advantage 2) its firing mechanism makes it harder to dodge do to lack of predictable RoF spread 3) its amazing at both CqC and long range 4) comboed with the SMG it has no inherant weakness and doesnt suffer against armor based suits like it should 5) it dominates the metagame rendering nearly every other playstyle and combo obsolete OP has put forth the following arguments without countering the above arguments 1) Nuh-unh its definatly not 2) i see people in pubs using all sorts of things 3) im not good with the scrambler rifle Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 198	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:31:00 - [39] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: it dominates the metagame rendering nearly every other playstyle and combo obsolete im sorry but this is just to hilarious prove it with numbers from ccp going all the way back to when it was introduced lets just burn this motherfucker down
taxi bastard Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 232	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:35:00 - [40] - Quote can't see why anyone would have a complaint about bring the ROF inline with what is feasibly possible by a person? unless of course your using a modded controller?

Derpty Derp Dead Man's Game 358	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:36:00 - [41] - Quote Okay so... The scrambler rifle is OP... The combat rifle is OP... The rail rifle is OP (and stupidly easy to use.)... Hows about instead of asking for a big fat nerf, we just agree to buff the range on my tac AR, anyone? : )
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2194	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:39:00 - [42] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: it dominates the metagame rendering nearly every other playstyle and combo obsolete im sorry but this is just to hilarious prove it with numbers from ccp going all the way back to when it was introduced the current meta consists of the following gal/amaar scout with scrambler smg - trumps other scouts fairs well against logis/mediums weak against heavys gal/amaar shotgun scouts - anti heavy gal amaar scrambler smg assaults assault combat rifle logis - lolreps/lol scans (minmatar/gal) bust HMG/boundles heavys - anti scout/medium everything not on this list is at a distint disadvantage at the moment. Skill with other setups can mitigate that disadvantage to a degree but assuming equal skill this is what the meta currently looks like there will be variations of course but the team that most closly follows this list wins assuming equil skill Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 198	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:39:00 - [43] - Quote taxi bastard wrote: can't see why anyone would have a complaint about bring the ROF inline with what is feasibly possible by a person? unless of course your using a modded controller? why does it always have to come down to modded controller argument, im certain that people out there can approach its rpm for short spurts. i dont think im that far off myself lets just burn this motherfucker down
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 89	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:39:00 - [44] - Quote I am not talking to him anymore. he puts half truths and the facts that make him look good. He left out over half the points I made and replaced them with insults to me. Hes dead to me as far as posts from him go.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 198	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:43:00 - [45] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: I am not talking to him anymore. he puts half truths and the facts that make him look good. He left out over half the points I made and replaced them with insults to me. Hes dead to me as far as posts from him go. just swap to the combat rifles when they change the damage profile to -20 +20 lets just burn this motherfucker down
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2213	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:48:00 - [46] - Quote CR has 18 bursts before it has to reload TAR has 18 shots before it has to reload ScR has anywhere from 18-28 before overheating, which goes for about the same time elapsed as the reload on the other two semi-auto weapons. Lets see what else the ScR has compared to the CR and TAR The CR has a fire rate, if you count the burst as one shot, of 400. The TAR used to have 400, i believe it got buffed to 520? (fact check required) The ScR has charge shot capabilities, and greater range than the other 2 ScR has better hip fire than the TAR and about equal to the CR CR requires a nano hive for ammunition, due to low ammo capacity, but makes up for it with low fitting requirements. The TAR is middle ground, requiring fewer restocks per match, but has the worst range as well as the second worst fittings The damage per trigger pull is about equivalent for all of these rifles, but the ScR has the fewest downsides The ScR needs-TAR-like hip fire (terrible), a higher zoom and more reliable scope, a RoF cap at somewhere between 400 and 520, and the fitting req's need to be looked at (hopefully toned down at least a bit) "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. FA's Shotgunning T-Dome Champ Give the Minja active dampening!--By Bor
taxi bastard Vengeance Unbound Dark Taboo 232	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:51:00 - [47] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: taxi bastard wrote: can't see why anyone would have a complaint about bring the ROF inline with what is feasibly possible by a person? unless of course your using a modded controller? why does it always have to come down to modded controller argument, im certain that people out there can approach its rpm for short spurts. i dont think im that far off myself if your approaching that ...do you mean 5% or 25% off because that is a large amount of DPS difference. if of course people are genuinely close to the DPS numbers without a modded contoroller then its a weapon which needs to be looked at.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 78	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:53:00 - [48] - Quote 300 more dps is a figure achieved with maximum rpm which as stated before isn't humanly possible... The overheat effect also means that more than 2 people can't be killed in succession... And that's basic suits not these 1000 Hp assaults or 700hp scouts. Realistically my combat rifle is way more effective. Not to mention rail rifles are te most popular gun right now and every rooftop is full of them. They do huge damage over a really long range which is unparalleled.. And they suffer no drawbacks at short range... IMO a cal assault with a kaalkiota is way more dangerous than an imperial ak.o with viziam NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2194	Posted - 2014.08.30 17:56:00 - [49] - Quote his entire argument boils down to its overheat wich is mitigated by counting and swapping to your smg sidearm at that point its no longer a "short burst high dps weapon with overheat drawback" as the overheat is no longer a facter and swapping to the smg finisher mitigates the whole delay between firing bursts thing as your putting out consistant high dps all the way untill reload. 6-8 shot burst - target is now at 50% to 25% armor spray with smg for kill rifle is now cooled down repeat untill you have to reload thats how fights with a scrambler rifle work out, notice how "overheat and hurt yourself" or "stop shooting" isnt on that list? thats becuase you never overheat this way, and untill you have to reload you never stop shooting your weapons and can put out dps that entire time. essentialy your only semi valid argument rests on lack of blayer skill as a mechanism to balance, but player skill completly removes this weakness from the scrambler rifle especially combined with the SMG as a sidearm Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 198	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:00:00 - [50] - Quote taxi bastard wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: taxi bastard wrote: can't see why anyone would have a complaint about bring the ROF inline with what is feasibly possible by a person? unless of course your using a modded controller? why does it always have to come down to modded controller argument, im certain that people out there can approach its rpm for short spurts. i dont think im that far off myself if your approaching that ...do you mean 5% or 25% off because that is a large amount of DPS difference. if of course people are genuinely close to the DPS numbers without a modded contoroller then its a weapon which needs to be looked at. i look at the dps as a trade of for the fact you can only shoot for short periods followed by what is in comparison to the other rifles longer down times. working as intended i say lets just burn this motherfucker down

Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:05:00 - [51] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: What part of short bursts of high damage don't you get? The CR also melts me faster then I can react at times. So your argument is kinda flimsy. I die more to a CR then I ever do to scrambler users. hell I find most scrambler users at the moment to be rather scrubby. I die more to AR users. So do they need a nerf since you know we die to them so much something must be off. Also currently there are more scrubsusing the scrmabler then actually people that enjoy it because of that FOTOM crap or whatever it is. arguments based in math are the oposite of flimsey what part of 300more DPS then every other rifle including the max of the burst combat rifle is flimsy? they need a nerf because of the dps, not because of people dieing to them so much i thought i made that clear when my entire argument was focused on the dps and firing mechanics. interesting... fun fact, current CR and TAC deal similar amount of DPS ... your argument is invalid
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2195	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:08:00 - [52] - Quote Cpt McReady wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: What part of short bursts of high damage don't you get? The CR also melts me faster then I can react at times. So your argument is kinda flimsy. I die more to a CR then I ever do to scrambler users. hell I find most scrambler users at the moment to be rather scrubby. I die more to AR users. So do they need a nerf since you know we die to them so much something must be off. Also currently there are more scrubsusing the scrmabler then actually people that enjoy it because of that FOTOM crap or whatever it is. arguments based in math are the oposite of flimsey what part of 300more DPS then every other rifle including the max of the burst combat rifle is flimsy? they need a nerf because of the dps, not because of people dieing to them so much i thought i made that clear when my entire argument was focused on the dps and firing mechanics. interesting... fun fact, current CR and TAC deal similar amount of DPS ... your argument is invalid your doing the math wrong, the current CR and tac deal similar DPS as the other rifles Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 91	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:11:00 - [53] - Quote LIke I said he says what makes him look good. he won't even see all the facts. the down times because of the heat make it only good on the only suits that give it bonuses go figure. :O suits that were made to make them good make them good.
Cpt McReady Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 9	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:13:00 - [54] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Cpt McReady wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: What part of short bursts of high damage don't you get? The CR also melts me faster then I can react at times. So your argument is kinda flimsy. I die more to a CR then I ever do to scrambler users. hell I find most scrambler users at the moment to be rather scrubby. I die more to AR users. So do they need a nerf since you know we die to them so much something must be off. Also currently there are more scrubsusing the scrmabler then actually people that enjoy it because of that FOTOM crap or whatever it is. arguments based in math are the oposite of flimsey what part of 300more DPS then every other rifle including the max of the burst combat rifle is flimsy? they need a nerf because of the dps, not because of people dieing to them so much i thought i made that clear when my entire argument was focused on the dps and firing mechanics. interesting... fun fact, current CR and TAC deal similar amount of DPS ... your argument is invalid your doing the math wrong, the current CR and tac deal similar DPS as the other rifles math lol well if you had played some PC you would see that everyone is armor tanked and is using the CR or HMG. the SR has no advantage in dps there. and even in pubs, the majority is HMG/CR armor tanked... play the game dude.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2195	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:15:00 - [55] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: LIke I said he says what makes him look good. he won't even see all the facts. the down times because of the heat make it only good on the only suits that give it bonuses go figure. :O suits that were made to make them good make them good. smg removes downtime its simply a nonfactor as with it you can fire the scrambler and smg in an infinate loop without overheating or having downtime untill you have to reload. a single 8 shot burst is all you need in that setup and it doesnt cause overheat or downtime to do so its more the combo of scrambler AND smg thats overpowered then the scrambler rifle alone and a nerf to the smg wont mitigate that only a nerf to the ROF of the scrambler rifle will Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 91	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:19:00 - [56] - Quote How about you **** off with the smg talk because the my 10% armor damage profile weapon kills armor!?!?!? omg no one knew that. but you can also do the same thing with the magsec or the bolt pistol with skill. oh also if you have skill the flaylock is pretty wicked against armor with its 20% bonus damage. we know it does. that is a ANTI-ARMOR weapon. we are not infants. we can read and we know. We are talking about the scrambler. You are using it more as a shield burst. then swapping to the SMG to do the majority of the damage. This is why people think the smg is currently in need of a nerf.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 198	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:23:00 - [57] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: its more the combo of scrambler AND smg thats overpowered then the scrambler rifle alone and a nerf to the smg wont mitigate that only a nerf to the ROF of the scrambler rifle will really m8, people using a bit intelligence to mitigate a primary weapons weakness makes it op, do you have to do this when using assault, rail or combat rifles i dont think so lets just burn this motherfucker down
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2195	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:28:00 - [58] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: its more the combo of scrambler AND smg thats overpowered then the scrambler rifle alone and a nerf to the smg wont mitigate that only a nerf to the ROF of the scrambler rifle will really m8, people using a bit intelligence to mitigate a primary weapons weakness makes it op, do you have to do this when using assault, rail or combat rifles i dont think so you cant do it with rail or combat rifles as the ion pistol is trash and the scrambler pistol cant hack it as an opener and yes you should be doing it with the plasma rifle as well though its pointless as you should be running a scrabler or combat rifle instead Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 94	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:31:00 - [59] - Quote I am hearing more about you inability to use weapons then problems. I have seen videos recent ones with people going 30/4 with Ion pistols only. is it op? no. its just skill making up for weapon weaknesses. your argument about nerfing one weapon based off it being used with another is just pure stupidity. if thats the case we need to nerf all the assault bonuses, the weapons used on them, and the smg so the heavies and scouts are the only ones that can kill. -rolls his eyes and says all of that with heavy sarcasm.-
Michael Arck 5315	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:32:00 - [60] - Quote Its getting nerfed. Thats the inevitable truth. Its DPS is much too high. Archistrategos *Where the fear has gone there will be nothing....only I will remain*

Echo 1991 WarRavens 416	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:33:00 - [61] - Quote Can someone explain this skill that is required to use the ScR? Cos as far as im aware making sure you dont overheat isnt a skill. Also dont mention the damage profile cos it does the same amount of damage to armour as a rail rifle. im surprised at how many people think having a gun that can deal 400+ alpha damage from 70 meters away is balanced just because it can overheat.
Groz'zar Kazoku Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 94	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:34:00 - [62] - Quote Then the CR, RR, and AR need nerfs too. Simple as that. they all kill things so they need nerfed.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 198	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:34:00 - [63] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: its more the combo of scrambler AND smg thats overpowered then the scrambler rifle alone and a nerf to the smg wont mitigate that only a nerf to the ROF of the scrambler rifle will really m8, people using a bit intelligence to mitigate a primary weapons weakness makes it op, do you have to do this when using assault, rail or combat rifles i dont think so you cant do it with rail or combat rifles as the ion pistol is trash and the scrambler pistol cant hack it as an opener and yes you should be doing it with the plasma rifle as well though its pointless as you should be running a scrabler or combat rifle instead last time i got my shields stripped by any of the other rifles you know what they keep doing? they keep shooting till the end of the mag because it would be a waste of time to switch to secondary. but whatever if you have to swap from scram to smg it must be op right lets just burn this motherfucker down
Echo 1991 WarRavens 416	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:37:00 - [64] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Then the CR, RR, and AR need nerfs too. Simple as that. they all kill things so they need nerfed. agree with the CR, RR is fine just dont try and engage at a distance you know you cant deal effective damage. Why does the AR need a nerf? It has a 44 meter optimal range after that it gets real bad real fast.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 78	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:42:00 - [65] - Quote Lol. It not a problem in pubs or PC... Right now the rail rifle is the most common pubs weapon and the cr is the most common proto weapon... The second everyone switches to scr let me know... Oh wait they wont, because it's been around for ages and has never been a problem... The ascr needs a buff badly it's like finding a five leaf clover in pubs now to see an ascr user... I used to love it on my amarr logi but the rr and cr just outcompete it... Most of these 1000 ehp assaults are hard to kill with a scr without overheating anyway, it takes balanced firing unlike a rr which is point and hold the trigger.... If anyone has the problem with a scr use it and I will personally buttwhip you with a creodron breach ar and show you how op it is NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2197	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:55:00 - [66] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: I am hearing more about you inability to use weapons then problems. I have seen videos recent ones with people going 30/4 with Ion pistols only. is it op? no. its just skill making up for weapon weaknesses. your argument about nerfing one weapon based off it being used with another is just pure stupidity. if thats the case we need to nerf all the assault bonuses, the weapons used on them, and the smg so the heavies and scouts are the only ones that can kill. -rolls his eyes and says all of that with heavy sarcasm.- your the one who cant seem to shoot a scrmbler rifle without overheating... you seem to think that its 150-200dps advantage is somehow mitigated by overheat simply becuase you havnt figured out how to not let it overheat yet. Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Ace Boone Pure Evil. 285	Posted - 2014.08.30 18:58:00 - [67] - Quote Atiim wrote: Atiim wrote: Less dispersion than weapons specifically designed for CQC RoF that can't be reached by humans if this is fine, may I have my pre-nerf TAR back? If you stopped running such gankable minmitar heavies, then we wouldn't have to murder you so much. Only loyal to the republic.
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 199	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:10:00 - [68] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: I am hearing more about you inability to use weapons then problems. I have seen videos recent ones with people going 30/4 with Ion pistols only. is it op? no. its just skill making up for weapon weaknesses. your argument about nerfing one weapon based off it being used with another is just pure stupidity. if thats the case we need to nerf all the assault bonuses, the weapons used on them, and the smg so the heavies and scouts are the only ones that can kill. -rolls his eyes and says all of that with heavy sarcasm.- your the one who cant seem to shoot a scrmbler rifle without overheating... you seem to think that its 150-200dps advantage is somehow mitigated by overheat simply becuase you havnt figured out how to not let it overheat yet. you do realise ghost that if your not heating up the weapon as fast as you can your not doing this terrible dps everybody is banging on about dont you lets just burn this motherfucker down
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2197	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:14:00 - [69] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: I am hearing more about you inability to use weapons then problems. I have seen videos recent ones with people going 30/4 with Ion pistols only. is it op? no. its just skill making up for weapon weaknesses. your argument about nerfing one weapon based off it being used with another is just pure stupidity. if thats the case we need to nerf all the assault bonuses, the weapons used on them, and the smg so the heavies and scouts are the only ones that can kill. -rolls his eyes and says all of that with heavy sarcasm.- your the one who cant seem to shoot a scrmbler rifle without overheating... you seem to think that its 150-200dps advantage is somehow mitigated by overheat simply becuase you havnt figured out how to not let it overheat yet. you do realise ghost that if your not heating up the weapon as fast as you can your not doing this terrible dps everybody is banging on about dont you heat is on a time formula not a per shot basis weather you fire 8 shots or 11 its the same amount of heat cost its the same formula the laser rifle uses Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Zindorak 1.U.P 736	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:15:00 - [70] - Quote This is getting dumb. Which weapons come up on the kill feed the most. RR then CR then HMG and Shotgun. Then the occasional Mass Driver, AR and Sidearms. If the ScR is that OP why aren't people using it over RR or CR Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad

Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 199	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:19:00 - [71] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: I am hearing more about you inability to use weapons then problems. I have seen videos recent ones with people going 30/4 with Ion pistols only. is it op? no. its just skill making up for weapon weaknesses. your argument about nerfing one weapon based off it being used with another is just pure stupidity. if thats the case we need to nerf all the assault bonuses, the weapons used on them, and the smg so the heavies and scouts are the only ones that can kill. -rolls his eyes and says all of that with heavy sarcasm.- your the one who cant seem to shoot a scrmbler rifle without overheating... you seem to think that its 150-200dps advantage is somehow mitigated by overheat simply becuase you havnt figured out how to not let it overheat yet. you do realise ghost that if your not heating up the weapon as fast as you can your not doing this terrible dps everybody is banging on about dont you heat is on a time formula not a per shot basis weather you fire 8 shots or 11 its the same amount of heat cost its the same formula the laser rifle uses i know what the formula is, but to get the highest amount of damage you have to heat the weapon up, or tap fire for low dps till the end of the clip, ergo if you dont heat up and take the cooldown penalty your not doing good dps are you lets just burn this motherfucker down
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2200	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:33:00 - [72] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: I am hearing more about you inability to use weapons then problems. I have seen videos recent ones with people going 30/4 with Ion pistols only. is it op? no. its just skill making up for weapon weaknesses. your argument about nerfing one weapon based off it being used with another is just pure stupidity. if thats the case we need to nerf all the assault bonuses, the weapons used on them, and the smg so the heavies and scouts are the only ones that can kill. -rolls his eyes and says all of that with heavy sarcasm.- your the one who cant seem to shoot a scrmbler rifle without overheating... you seem to think that its 150-200dps advantage is somehow mitigated by overheat simply becuase you havnt figured out how to not let it overheat yet. you do realise ghost that if your not heating up the weapon as fast as you can your not doing this terrible dps everybody is banging on about dont you heat is on a time formula not a per shot basis weather you fire 8 shots or 11 its the same amount of heat cost its the same formula the laser rifle uses i know what the formula is, but to get the highest amount of damage you have to heat the weapon up, or tap fire for low dps till the end of the clip, ergo if you dont heat up and take the cooldown penalty your not doing good dps are you step 1 shoot 8 shots do insane dps step 2 swap to sidearm for finisher theres no heat in the dps equasion Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 199	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:43:00 - [73] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: step 1 shoot 8 shots do insane dps step 2 swap to sidearm for finisher theres no heat in the dps equasion just simply fire 8 shots then swap, once you swap back there will be no heat buildup and you can repeat this making it so that heat is a nonfactor being able to switch to a side arm to negate a primary weapons weakness should have no bearing on balance. otherwise what your basically saying is that the scram is flawed somehow lets just burn this motherfucker down
Zindorak 1.U.P 739	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:45:00 - [74] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: step 1 shoot 8 shots do insane dps step 2 swap to sidearm for finisher theres no heat in the dps equasion just simply fire 8 shots then swap, once you swap back there will be no heat buildup and you can repeat this making it so that heat is a nonfactor being able to switch to a side arm to negate a primary weapons weakness should have no bearing on balance. otherwise what your basically saying is that the scram is flawed somehow also you can do this with a CR or a RR or HMG Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad
SILENTSAM 69 SONS of LEGION RISE of LEGION 712	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:48:00 - [75] - Quote People just love to cry OP because they can not accept the fact that they are not as good as they think they are. All of us have called a death that was our fault bullshit in the past. The only way to actually fix the perception that many of your deaths are not your fault is to see video of the game play. I use to love that Halo did this. Watching a battle after where you died to "bullshit" often shows you were just unaware of that other person, or that big opening you were giving them.
Spectre-M The Generals Anime Empire. 761	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:49:00 - [76] - Quote Please stop comparing weapon combos to single weapons. It's just absurd. The only thing that's needs changing with handheld weapons is for heat (ScR HMG) and kick (all) to be based on shots, not seconds. This would remove the turbos as well as make kick and heat an actual drawback. Right now kick is minimal and heat only occurs on the ScR, LR and HMG. AR needs a little buff. I don't see how the per shot mechanic wasn't done along time ago, except of course the LR as it's a beam. Minnmitar in Amarr armor. A Wolf in Sheeps clothing. May the Empress live till she graces my sights.
Zindorak 1.U.P 740	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:50:00 - [77] - Quote Spectre-M wrote: Please stop comparing weapon combos to single weapons. It's just absurd. The only thing that's needs changing with handheld weapons is for heat (ScR HMG) and kick (all) to be based on shots, not seconds. This would remove the turbos as well as make kick and heat an actual drawback. Right now kick is minimal and heat only occurs on the ScR, LR and HMG. AR needs a little buff. I don't see how the per shot mechanic wasn't done along time ago, except of course the LR as it's a beam. Yea I like the AR but it's just bad right now Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2201	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:55:00 - [78] - Quote Zindorak wrote: Spectre-M wrote: Please stop comparing weapon combos to single weapons. It's just absurd. The only thing that's needs changing with handheld weapons is for heat (ScR HMG) and kick (all) to be based on shots, not seconds. This would remove the turbos as well as make kick and heat an actual drawback. Right now kick is minimal and heat only occurs on the ScR, LR and HMG. AR needs a little buff. I don't see how the per shot mechanic wasn't done along time ago, except of course the LR as it's a beam. Yea I like the AR but it's just bad right now technically the inclusion of any sidearm tips the balance. and yes a scrambler rifle/sidearm combo making everything else obsolete is the definition of imbalance and im compairing the combo of scrambler sidearm to all other rifles+ sidearm Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 199	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:57:00 - [79] - Quote if anybody wants to vent there anger over what looks like my obsessive defense of the scrambler i will be on later on tonight drunk and easy prey lets just burn this motherfucker down
Zindorak 1.U.P 740	Posted - 2014.08.30 19:58:00 - [80] - Quote SILENTSAM 69 wrote: People just love to cry OP because they can not accept the fact that they are not as good as they think they are. All of us have called a death that was our fault bullshit in the past. The only way to actually fix the perception that many of your deaths are not your fault is to see video of the game play. I use to love that Halo did this. Watching a battle after where you died to "bullshit" often shows you were just unaware of that other person, or that big opening you were giving them. Yea i agree +1 Pokemon master! CCP undo ScP nerf. It hurt my feering very bad

Mejt0 The Only Survivor. 434	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:20:00 - [81] - Quote Lest talk about few things. 1. ScR + smg. You can do this only to x meters. Smg have short range. Also switching guns lowers your dps output. 2. ScR dps. Decent human will make 8-10shoots/sec. Dont count ScR dps with flat 705/60 math. 3. If its so much greater that other rifles, how is it that almost nobody uses it? CR/RR dominate around rifles. How is that ,,FOTM,, chasers dont use it? Exactly. Its not that good as you think. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2201	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:29:00 - [82] - Quote Mejt0 wrote: Lest talk about few things. 1. ScR + smg. You can do this only to x meters. Smg have short range. Also switching guns lowers your dps output. 2. ScR dps. Decent human will make 8-10shoots/sec. Dont count ScR dps with flat 705/60 math. 3. If its so much greater that other rifles, how is it that almost nobody uses it? CR/RR dominate around rifles. How is that ,,FOTM,, chasers dont use it? Exactly. Its not that good as you think. its so good that its forcing a metagame shift to stacking as much armor as you possably can weather people are activly using it as their dominant rifle or not its forcing a limited number of viable options the scrabler rifle is the cause of that shift. and its why armor tanked suits are the only viable option right now, im assuming people are running combat rifles as a means to combat the bricked armor tanking but hold back the scrambler rifle to counter anyone not following that trend, limiting the viable options to gallente and amaar to retain enough armor to place themselves with enough armor to survive the initial scrambler burst stacking armor like that provides the best chance of beating the scrambler player while using the ombat rifle gives the best advantage against armor. the scrambler rifle is the sole reason armor so so dominant, its the sole reason theres so few competitive options Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 801	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:48:00 - [83] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: my arguments have included 1) it has a 50% or more dps advantage 2) its firing mechanism makes it harder to dodge do to lack of predictable RoF spread 3) its amazing at both CqC and long range 4) comboed with the SMG it has no inherant weakness and doesnt suffer against armor based suits like it should 5) it dominates the metagame rendering nearly every other playstyle and combo obsolete OP has put forth the following arguments without countering the above arguments 1) Nuh-unh its definatly not 2) i see people in pubs using all sorts of things 3) im not good with the scrambler rifle 4) but it tottaly has overheat guys 5) chances ghost is a noob trying to sound smart and so his opinion is invalid 6) math means nothing I wondered, but didn't realize you were the same person. YouTube
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2201	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:49:00 - [84] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: I wondered, but didn't realize you were the same person. main got banned for trolling to hard :P Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 801	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:53:00 - [85] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I wondered, but didn't realize you were the same person. main got banned for trolling to hard :P What is your suggestion for fixing? YouTube
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1865	Posted - 2014.08.30 20:56:00 - [86] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Zindorak wrote: Spectre-M wrote: Please stop comparing weapon combos to single weapons. It's just absurd. The only thing that's needs changing with handheld weapons is for heat (ScR HMG) and kick (all) to be based on shots, not seconds. This would remove the turbos as well as make kick and heat an actual drawback. Right now kick is minimal and heat only occurs on the ScR, LR and HMG. AR needs a little buff. I don't see how the per shot mechanic wasn't done along time ago, except of course the LR as it's a beam. Yea I like the AR but it's just bad right now technically the inclusion of any sidearm tips the balance. and yes a scrambler rifle/sidearm combo making everything else obsolete is the definition of imbalance and im compairing the combo of scrambler sidearm to all other rifles+ sidearm by your logic is the ScP OP? After all once you drop their shields you can just swap to a SMG Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2201	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:05:00 - [87] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I wondered, but didn't realize you were the same person. main got banned for trolling to hard :P What is your suggestion for fixing? lowering the rate of fire wouldnt kill it but would remove the nessesity for stacking so much armor changing its damage profile to 110-90 may alieviate the need to stack so much armor as well without hurting its anti-shield properties either way its dps needs to be brought down so that it doesnt have that 150 dps advantage. all in all i dont see it being balanced out with a single change, its going to require a combo effort in both changing the weapon slightly AND making shield modules more valueble. the problem is that its such a good counter to shields that it removes them from validity just from exsisting while at the same time theres not an equal counter to armor (not that there should be) granted if there were an equal counter to armor in the way that the scrambler counters shields we would indeed see balance relativly quickly as it would make armor and shields equally invalid, but this of course would just bring back pure brick tanking with players aiming to maximize both shield HP and armor HP. another option would be to buff the HP of shields to make them able to withstand scrambler more and making shield tanking an excelent counter to combat rifles. its a tricky thing it really is, and CCP is really between a rock and a hard place ATM becuase its not easy to balance all this for competitive play. balancing this problem out is probably the most difficult balancing act the game can have becuase a step in the wrong direction invalidates at least half of all options. Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2201	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:06:00 - [88] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Zindorak wrote: Spectre-M wrote: Please stop comparing weapon combos to single weapons. It's just absurd. The only thing that's needs changing with handheld weapons is for heat (ScR HMG) and kick (all) to be based on shots, not seconds. This would remove the turbos as well as make kick and heat an actual drawback. Right now kick is minimal and heat only occurs on the ScR, LR and HMG. AR needs a little buff. I don't see how the per shot mechanic wasn't done along time ago, except of course the LR as it's a beam. Yea I like the AR but it's just bad right now technically the inclusion of any sidearm tips the balance. and yes a scrambler rifle/sidearm combo making everything else obsolete is the definition of imbalance and im compairing the combo of scrambler sidearm to all other rifles+ sidearm by your logic is the ScP OP? After all once you drop their shields you can just swap to a SMG 300RPM prevents that it just cant put out the dps to make it work while the scrambler rifle can Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 7406	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:12:00 - [89] - Quote It's usually an Amarr defending the Scrambler Rifle. I always like to go back to the Duvolle Tactical Defenders from the days of old to get the point across. Of course they'll miss it and bring up a bs counter to it but it still stands. People will always defend their crutch and it doesn't matter what reason and logic you bring to the discussion there will always be a person saying an OP item is not OP. Beta Tanks, Beta Small Missiles, OHK Flux Grenades, Chrome Laser Rifle, Old Grenades, Duvolle Tactical Rifle, Logistics LAVs, Flaylock Pistol, Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Scrambler Rifle and Brick Tanked Scouts. They all have been defended by one scrub or the other but in the end, looking back, every one of the listed things was OP and needed a nerf. Lucent Echelon -The Brightest Ranks Gallente Faction Warfare Chanel
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1866	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:20:00 - [90] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Zindorak wrote: Spectre-M wrote: Please stop comparing weapon combos to single weapons. It's just absurd. The only thing that's needs changing with handheld weapons is for heat (ScR HMG) and kick (all) to be based on shots, not seconds. This would remove the turbos as well as make kick and heat an actual drawback. Right now kick is minimal and heat only occurs on the ScR, LR and HMG. AR needs a little buff. I don't see how the per shot mechanic wasn't done along time ago, except of course the LR as it's a beam. Yea I like the AR but it's just bad right now technically the inclusion of any sidearm tips the balance. and yes a scrambler rifle/sidearm combo making everything else obsolete is the definition of imbalance and im compairing the combo of scrambler sidearm to all other rifles+ sidearm by your logic is the ScP OP? After all once you drop their shields you can just swap to a SMG 300RPM prevents that it just cant put out the dps to make it work while the scrambler rifle can but in skilled hands it can are you factoring in the 450% headshot bonus? after all you are using a lot of sparkly what ifs in your ScR "logic" EDIT: AScP DPS is a whopping 1809.06 at BASIC BEFORE PROFICIENCY OR DMG MODS Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r

Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2202	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:28:00 - [91] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: but in skilled hands it can are you factoring in the 450% headshot bonus? after all you are using a lot of sparkly what ifs in your ScR "logic" if by sparkly what ifs you mean "what if i spam 8 shots then swap" and "what if i hit the target" then sure im using sparkly what ifs... headshots do indeed bring it more in line but the pistol lacks the utility of long range combat. ScP/SMG combo is VERY effective in pub matches for the same reasons but the lack of utility prevents it from excelling in PC the same way its big brother does not to mention the extra added utility of the charge shot Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1866	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:36:00 - [92] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: but in skilled hands it can are you factoring in the 450% headshot bonus? after all you are using a lot of sparkly what ifs in your ScR "logic" if by sparkly what ifs you mean "what if i spam 8 shots then swap" and "what if i hit the target" then sure im using sparkly what ifs... headshots do indeed bring it more in line but the pistol lacks the utility of long range combat. ScP/SMG combo is VERY effective in pub matches for the same reasons but the lack of utility prevents it from excelling in PC the same way its big brother does not to mention the extra added utility of the charge shot landing consecutive headshots with the scrambler pistol is also exceedingly more difficult then landing bodyshots with a scrambler rifle. it would require perfect play to beat its older brother but would lose out on a single missed shot But that is what we are comparing yes? "Perfect Play" Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 200	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:39:00 - [93] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: AScP DPS is a whopping 1809.06 at BASIC BEFORE PROFICIENCY OR DMG MODS shush, dont make me send the inquisitors to your place of residence lets just burn this motherfucker down pew pew goes my scram rifle zap zap goes my scram pistol
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1866	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:40:00 - [94] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: AScP DPS is a whopping 1809.06 at BASIC BEFORE PROFICIENCY OR DMG MODS shush, dont make me send the inquisitors to your place of residence >.> <.< Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Monty Mole Clone Shiv M 200	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:48:00 - [95] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: AScP DPS is a whopping 1809.06 at BASIC BEFORE PROFICIENCY OR DMG MODS shush, dont make me send the inquisitors to your place of residence >.> <.< since im not totally down with the net lingo, i will take that as your acceptance of my warning lets just burn this motherfucker down pew pew goes my scram rifle zap zap goes my scram pistol
Vitharr Foebane Terminal Courtesy Proficiency V. 1867	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:54:00 - [96] - Quote Monty Mole Clone wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: Monty Mole Clone wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: AScP DPS is a whopping 1809.06 at BASIC BEFORE PROFICIENCY OR DMG MODS shush, dont make me send the inquisitors to your place of residence >.> <.< since im not totally down with the net lingo, i will take that as your acceptance of my warning dont know what yer talkin about friend nod nod nudge nudge wink wink Amarr: Assault V, Scout V, Sentinel V, Commando V, Logistics IV I place my faith in my God, my Empress, and my Laz0r
Sinboto Simmons SVER True Blood Public.Disorder. 6333	Posted - 2014.08.30 21:59:00 - [97] - Quote As a player: NERFF IT TO 5HE GROUNDDDD!!!! 111 As a Minmatar:NERF IT TO HELLLLLL!!!! 1! 1!!! 1111!!! But all jokes aside the scrambler has been overpreforming for quite some time now, I assume it went untouched due to the Amarr's lack of gear. Sinboto - The True Blood Minja Forum Warrior level 5 Prof 1 STB-Infantry (Demolition)
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2203	Posted - 2014.08.30 22:10:00 - [98] - Quote Vitharr Foebane wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: Vitharr Foebane wrote: but in skilled hands it can are you factoring in the 450% headshot bonus? after all you are using a lot of sparkly what ifs in your ScR "logic" if by sparkly what ifs you mean "what if i spam 8 shots then swap" and "what if i hit the target" then sure im using sparkly what ifs... headshots do indeed bring it more in line but the pistol lacks the utility of long range combat. ScP/SMG combo is VERY effective in pub matches for the same reasons but the lack of utility prevents it from excelling in PC the same way its big brother does not to mention the extra added utility of the charge shot landing consecutive headshots with the scrambler pistol is also exceedingly more difficult then landing bodyshots with a scrambler rifle. it would require perfect play to beat its older brother but would lose out on a single missed shot But that is what we are comparing yes? "Perfect Play" nope were complaining on the grounds of "equal skill" not perfect play. Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"
xSir Campsalotx Pure Evil. 205	Posted - 2014.08.30 22:14:00 - [99] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: xSir Campsalotx wrote: How is this even up for debate? Scrambler has horrible damage profile 120/80 against half the suits in the game, overheats, needs to cool down between bursts, and is horrible against strafey scouts or assualts for that matter. Not to mention is the only semi Assualt Rifle besides the Gal Tac which is rarely used and even that one doesn't have overheat. On the dispersion point you overlook a simple fact scrambler rifles yes start off with decent Hipfire but Gal ARs and CRs can get tighter dispersion through the use of the sharpshooter skill. CR has 95/110 damage profile so it is effective against both shield and armor. Even the 110/90 Gal Ar profile is much more balanced. you diddnt factor in proficiancy skills into your damage profiles sir Because not everyone has the same profs so I went with the unbiased base stats
Ghosts Chance Inf4m0us 2203	Posted - 2014.08.30 22:18:00 - [100] - Quote xSir Campsalotx wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: xSir Campsalotx wrote: How is this even up for debate? Scrambler has horrible damage profile 120/80 against half the suits in the game, overheats, needs to cool down between bursts, and is horrible against strafey scouts or assualts for that matter. Not to mention is the only semi Assualt Rifle besides the Gal Tac which is rarely used and even that one doesn't have overheat. On the dispersion point you overlook a simple fact scrambler rifles yes start off with decent Hipfire but Gal ARs and CRs can get tighter dispersion through the use of the sharpshooter skill. CR has 95/110 damage profile so it is effective against both shield and armor. Even the 110/90 Gal Ar profile is much more balanced. you diddnt factor in proficiancy skills into your damage profiles sir Because not everyone has the same profs so I went with the unbiased base stats also the scrambler rifle and mass driver are currently the best anti scout weapons in the game, so saying that its bad against strafe scouts is kind of a stretch Minmatar is Winmatar Creed of the Minja - "I'm a leaf on the wind"

Mejt0 The Only Survivor. 434	Posted - 2014.08.30 22:30:00 - [101] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: It's usually an Amarr defending the Scrambler Rifle. I always like to go back to the Duvolle Tactical Defenders from the days of old to get the point across. Of course they'll miss it and bring up a bs counter to it but it still stands. People will always defend their crutch and it doesn't matter what reason and logic you bring to the discussion there will always be a person saying an OP item is not OP. Beta Tanks, Beta Small Missiles, OHK Flux Grenades, Chrome Laser Rifle, Old Grenades, Duvolle Tactical Rifle, Logistics LAVs, Flaylock Pistol, Rail Rifle, Combat Rifle, Scrambler Rifle and Brick Tanked Scouts. They all have been defended by one scrub or the other but in the end, looking back, every one of the listed things was OP and needed a nerf. Well gues what. Im caldari since start. Laser weponary kills me without efort. Yet i dont think nerfing ScR is good. As its good to kill scouts via scout. To Gost.. People are stacking armor for a long time now, and its because of shield being usless for 3/4 suits. Not because of ScR. Additionaly every rifle in dust shreds shields equaily fast, no matter what profiles it have. Bring me video of You/somone who will fight vs gallente assault. He would use CR/AR and You/someone ScR on amarr. Lets see how that Meta destroying rifle gonna deal with him. Caldari Loyalist Markiplier fan. Got 6815 WP only on wrecking tanks with Ion Cannon.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 802	Posted - 2014.08.30 22:54:00 - [102] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: xSir Campsalotx wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: xSir Campsalotx wrote: How is this even up for debate? Scrambler has horrible damage profile 120/80 against half the suits in the game, overheats, needs to cool down between bursts, and is horrible against strafey scouts or assualts for that matter. Not to mention is the only semi Assualt Rifle besides the Gal Tac which is rarely used and even that one doesn't have overheat. On the dispersion point you overlook a simple fact scrambler rifles yes start off with decent Hipfire but Gal ARs and CRs can get tighter dispersion through the use of the sharpshooter skill. CR has 95/110 damage profile so it is effective against both shield and armor. Even the 110/90 Gal Ar profile is much more balanced. you diddnt factor in proficiancy skills into your damage profiles sir Because not everyone has the same profs so I went with the unbiased base stats also the scrambler rifle and mass driver are currently the best anti scout weapons in the game, so saying that its bad against strafe scouts is kind of a stretch Of course they are, they are high alpha damage weapons that outrange the NK and SG. It only makes since that they would be. Every other weapons they may get hit by, but scouts are fast enough to break auto aim and give them the chance to evade to cover and ambush the aggressor. Scouts with sub 400 EHP are going to fall easy to a weapon that's putting out over 100 HP per shot on average. I only need to land 1/3 my shots. YouTube
shady merc RisingSuns Dark Taboo 55	Posted - 2014.08.30 23:40:00 - [103] - Quote The major issue with the scrambler rifle is its ability to obtain a very high dps. My fear is if we simply adjust this dps we will destroy the weapon, so let look at some of the features of the weapon. heat build up: with heat build up based on time and not shots it encourages the weapon to be used mid-short range and to spam multiple shots together. We do this to ensure more shots connect and thus kill our enemy. This is counter productive to the fact that it should be a mid-long range weapon. mag size: with the current heat build up system it is an unimportant feature of the weapon. With such a large magazine size the scrambler rifle should excel at sustain damage. In fact this should be very important at range when fighting a rail rifle. This extended clip size would allow the scrambler rifle to due a better job of bouncing in and out of cover compared to the rail rifle with its spool up time. This also fall in line with the Amarr being armor tanks and constant healing provided by armor reps. rate of fire: When fighting at range or over a long period of time the scrambler should be able to maintain a near consistent rof. However as the fighting becomes close to mid range a user will want to spam more shots together and then wait for heat cool down. This give the scrambler a better cqc ability then the Rail rifle but without the ability to empty a full clip should keep it worse then the cr/ar Damage: With such high damage combined with a shield heavy profile. The scrambler rifle is simply to good against shield. we need to lower this(with a potential of increase number of shot before overheat) as I believe no "normal" weapon shot be able to one shot your complex hp mod. If the ability to one shot a complex mod is to be in game it needs to be left to situational weapons as they require a more strategic approach to combat. This also allows situational weapons to excel at what they do with out being over powered. damage profile: This and the damage are causing a major imbalance in the shield vs armor meta game. Every time shields become popular the use of the scrambler rifle increases. Know this is actually a good thing as it ensure shield will never become dominate. The problem is there is not currently a weapon like this for armor. One could argue that the MD fills this role but 2 things stop it from doing this. 1. it dps is simply to low to compete with a rifle. 2. even with a -20% to shield it is still able to one shot a shield user's complex extender. This create the armor dominate play as every weapon is effective against armor is also effective against shields. On top of that the shield user must worry about the Scrambler rifle(and to a lesser extend the laser rifle) in order to correct the scrambler rifle issue we must ensure the following it can maintain a decent dps at range over an extended time. it still has some ability to spam shots range giving it better cqc then RR but not better then CR or AR Create a weapon that has a lower ttk against armor then shields. allowing the shield vs armor meta game to fluctuate this.
manboar thunder fist Dead Man's Game 82	Posted - 2014.08.31 05:36:00 - [104] - Quote Ghosts Chance wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Ghosts Chance wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: I wondered, but didn't realize you were the same person. main got banned for trolling to hard :P What is your suggestion for fixing? lowering the rate of fire wouldnt kill it but would remove the nessesity for stacking so much armor changing its damage profile to 110-90 may alieviate the need to stack so much armor as well without hurting its anti-shield properties either way its dps needs to be brought down so that it doesnt have that 150 dps advantage. all in all i dont see it being balanced out with a single change, its going to require a combo effort in both changing the weapon slightly AND making shield modules more valueble. the problem is that its such a good counter to shields that it removes them from validity just from exsisting while at the same time theres not an equal counter to armor (not that there should be) granted if there were an equal counter to armor in the way that the scrambler counters shields we would indeed see balance relativly quickly as it would make armor and shields equally invalid, but this of course would just bring back pure brick tanking with players aiming to maximize both shield HP and armor HP. another option would be to buff the HP of shields to make them able to withstand scrambler more and making shield tanking an excelent counter to combat rifles. its a tricky thing it really is, and CCP is really between a rock and a hard place ATM becuase its not easy to balance all this for competitive play. balancing this problem out is probably the most difficult balancing act the game can have becuase a step in the wrong direction invalidates at least half of all options. if i had this problem in a game of my own design i would probably go about making a pokemon like type chart for all the variations, identifying imbalances from that and using it to figure out what can afford to be changesd to provide more varying strengths and weaknesses to each setup and attempt to create a more rock/paper/scizors balancing style to acomidate a metagame that involves activly building counters into your playstyle during a game, then i would proceed to limit the number of available fits a person can save to provide an extra avenue of metagame where the limitation of the fits you can bring to battle also contributes to a win or a loss Please stop trying to sound smart and observant while spewing utter bull excrement . The reason everyone uses armour tank .. Oh wait caldari and minmatar users don't .. I run a shield tank only cal assault, cal scout , ninja and min assault.. Never have I thought "gee better armour tank becuz lul scr op"... Secondly armour tanking yields higher EHP due to higher values for plates than extenders, tha ability to be repped and te fact that 1 armour beats 1 shield point NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
OZAROW Opus Arcana Covert Intervention 1532	Posted - 2014.08.31 13:30:00 - [105] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: omfg moron stop taking just the damage and RPS. Look at the long picture and the risk reward as well. stop being a moron with math for a miniute and check more then just the damage output for the first second to second and a half. I asked nicely now I am just gonna be blunt. Stop and look at the whole weapon not just the trigger and holes it makes. What else is there to look at? I mean really, theres alot of players that are only considered good players because they use the scr, and all of em say its op, granted some can rock pistols and still get similar scores, others......not likely! Yes, you just got rocked by a guy with a BOLT PISTOL and a pair of knives! !
Apothecary Za'ki Biomass Positive 698	Posted - 2014.08.31 15:58:00 - [106] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Its not too strong. everyone leaves out the fact if you fire one too many rounds in intense fire fights. it locks up for 5s. It does 50 damage to you and the lock up stops everything but walking. 9/10 if it overheat it means your dead. Also if your dying fast please stop using E-war Assaults. I see too many assaults out there with less then 500 EHP. I don't know when this became a thing but if you run the numbers E-war outside of scouts is pointless to the point of being not even worth stating into. Also if your running anything that lightens your EHP don't think you can still stand in fire at me. I see that happen a lot. I dance the bullet dance and you stand there taking head shots. that is your own fault for dying no one else. Head shots skyrocket damage. I am using a marksmen weapon. I do go for the head shots. I don't see the RR, CR, or AR having a disadvantage as big as 5s lock up and 50 damage if you don't use it right. I don't even see them really having draw backs besides range. The tiny spool up time on the RR has people even using it in CQC. the CR and AR really don't have one if you keep in its effective range. so if all guns can overhead then maybe the scrambler needs a nerf. but they don't so they don't need **** with any more then the flaylock needs a nerf. That thing wrecks if you get hit by the rounds. if your only doing splash it sucks ya but direct hits are deadly. Hell wanna know one worse then the Scrambler for pens? The laser rifle. 5s lock up and 175 damage on overheat. I might be off on its lock up time. If not its very dangerous. Hense why it does such amazing damage. you can literally kill yourself if your not careful rather insanely easily. you can stop QQing.. the semi auto(aka OP) ScR is getting a nerf bat to the face in Delta while the assault SCR (full auto) is getting a BUFF [[LogiBro in Training]] Level 1 Forum Pariah**
CommanderBolt Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 1440	Posted - 2014.08.31 16:02:00 - [107] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: Its not too strong. everyone leaves out the fact if you fire one too many rounds in intense fire fights. it locks up for 5s. It does 50 damage to you and the lock up stops everything but walking. 9/10 if it overheat it means your dead. Also if your dying fast please stop using E-war Assaults. I see too many assaults out there with less then 500 EHP. I don't know when this became a thing but if you run the numbers E-war outside of scouts is pointless to the point of being not even worth stating into. Also if your running anything that lightens your EHP don't think you can still stand in fire at me. I see that happen a lot. I dance the bullet dance and you stand there taking head shots. that is your own fault for dying no one else. Head shots skyrocket damage. I am using a marksmen weapon. I do go for the head shots. I don't see the RR, CR, or AR having a disadvantage as big as 5s lock up and 50 damage if you don't use it right. I don't even see them really having draw backs besides range. The tiny spool up time on the RR has people even using it in CQC. the CR and AR really don't have one if you keep in its effective range. so if all guns can overhead then maybe the scrambler needs a nerf. but they don't so they don't need ****** with any more then the flaylock needs a nerf. That thing wrecks if you get hit by the rounds. if your only doing splash it sucks ya but direct hits are deadly. Hell wanna know one worse then the Scrambler for pens? The laser rifle. 5s lock up and 175 damage on overheat. I might be off on its lock up time. If not its very dangerous. Hense why it does such amazing damage. you can literally kill yourself if your not careful rather insanely easily. The ONLY single thing that has ever even been a problem with the regular Scrambler rifle is the fact that some people with modded controllers can attain absurd - full auto - levels of fire rate. It just needed a minor change to the rate of fire stat and its fine. It needs no heavy nerf's at all. Is there anywhere where I can see the proposed change details? Or is it all just talk at the moment with no numbers? -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Defy Gravity G.L.O.R.Y 520	Posted - 2014.08.31 18:17:00 - [108] - Quote Not if youre an amarr assault... & The lock up thing is you bullshiting I use it myself & ive never locked up How can there be 50k people on CCP's servers when i'm the only person on earth?
HappyAsshole1 Bragian Order Amarr Empire 24	Posted - 2014.08.31 18:56:00 - [109] - Quote All SCR needs is slight rate of fire nerf. and turbo controllers can't use it anymore.
Gemini Cuspid 127	Posted - 2014.08.31 19:27:00 - [110] - Quote Groz'zar Kazoku wrote: omfg moron stop taking just the damage and RPS. Look at the long picture and the risk reward as well. stop being a moron with math for a miniute and check more then just the damage output for the first second to second and a half. I asked nicely now I am just gonna be blunt. Stop and look at the whole weapon not just the trigger and holes it makes. Stopped...looked at the whole picture...had to pause because I couldn't remember if this was a troll post about 1- Maddys before the patch being unable to now run over everyone and impervious to destruction nearly unlike before 2- SR have the hugest +/- ratio of pros versus cons when it comes to kills, damage, range in opposition to actual deaths, actual isk cost and actual combat risk putting them only behind the best skilled vehicle and a Thale user willing to get out of the redline area of a long map 3- Scouts and cloaks w/ shotguns pre~nerf patch whining they can't do it anymore Oh wait! It was number #2 Even with getting a bit of damage yourself the fact that the damage you inflict is that much greater that you're less likely to die combined with the superior range of the actual weapon. This isn't arguing in the 15th century about whether the world is flat or had a diameter of 5,000 or 8,000 miles. You're not arguing to appeal to the masses because your logic is suggesting if sniper users took damage for every shot and, thus more susceptible to counter sniper it'd be a real risk. You forget that once you kill your opponent then it's a mute point. That's the big idea of why veteran scrambler users dominate in any match; the added SP with the experience of the SR along with the full potential of that weapon means you can kill from safety and if get the first shot you're guaranteed to kill the other player. It's also a reason your one of the only other classes actively sniped for. Only class that a player will actively try to hunt, kill even if it costs ISK and deaths are Thale users.



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