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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4440	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:53:00 - [1] - Quote As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10592	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:57:00 - [2] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers! -HAND
Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2150	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:59:00 - [3] - Quote I use it on one of my proto Caldari fits and I have maxed core skills even :/ I dunno... I also use it on one of my Dragonfly Scout suits when I pack the equipment slots with high-end prox explosives. I suggest changing them to high slot, to complement the CPU upgrade being low-slot. "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
Fizzer94 Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2964	Posted - 2014.07.17 13:59:00 - [4] - Quote No CPU cost. High Slots. Fixed. My best match on Dust, 23/6/4 Placon. Please unnerf ScPs and fix IoPs...

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4442	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:01:00 - [5] - Quote Xocoyol Zaraoul wrote: I use it on one of my proto Caldari fits and I have maxed core skills even :/ I dunno... I also use it on one of my Dragonfly Scout suits when I pack the equipment slots with high-end prox explosives. Can you share the fit? "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10592	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:02:00 - [6] - Quote Anyways, the main problem with PG Extenders is that (in the case Armor Tankers), using them requires you to sacrafice your main "tank" style, be it HP Modules or Repairers. Moving it to the High Slot will fix this, but it would cause an indirect nerf on Shield Tanking, as the Extenders are PG intensive, nearly forcing you to run one for a decent buffer. Though the amount of PG yielded could use a buff too.... The Snack That Smiles Back, Tankers! -HAND

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4442	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:02:00 - [7] - Quote Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Xocoyol Zaraoul Superior Genetics 2150	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:03:00 - [8] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Can you share the fit? A lazy fit, could probably be better but... SB-39 RR Bolt Pistol Adv Cloak K-2 Nanohives Four Complex Shield Extenders Complex Reactive Plate (yeah yeah there's my mistake right here :P But I'm determined to make reactives viable) A militia PG upgrade? I could probably slap in a Kal RR if I swap the PG Upgrade for something slightly higher. EDIT: Obviously the Proto Cal Scout fit, the rest I don't remember off the top of my head... Oh yeah and I think Locus Grenades? "You see those red dots over there? Go and shoot them until you see a +50 on the screen" - Arkena Wyrnspire
RKKR The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 979	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:06:00 - [9] - Quote Sometimes I think this game needs Mid slots to be actually balanced Shield VS armor makes me use my few low slots to survive instead of PG upgrades on my shield suits.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 3009	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:07:00 - [10] - Quote In favor of moving to HS. In favor of eliminating CPU requirement. When I use PG Upgrade (which is seldom) it is to fit one or two pieces of decent gear on a bad suit. For example, my "suicide uplink" suit is a Dragonfly Scout. PG Upgrade permits me to run a prototype uplink alongside PG-intensive biotic modules. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2450	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:15:00 - [11] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... Could you have them reduce the endurance cost of sprinting? So they would partially be like an endurance mod, but in the highslot combined with the ability of making your punch a bit harder.
TOOMANY NAMES ALREADYTAKEn Going for the gold 0	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:24:00 - [12] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... Terrible? HAH a few days ago i met a guy with about 500 melee damage, being "Chuck Norris" all over the place. Shotgunner for life.
Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2451	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:31:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. Wouldn't we want to boil its bonus down to being able to provide more than its 'spent' slot's worth of bonus? Possibilities: -gives shield recharge (or delay) bonus in addition to PG boost. -Boosts efficacy of damage mods. -increases all weapon specialization effects? -Serves as a kind of nanite reserve that boost starting ammo. -Boosts suit skill based resists -Damage control esque: Shield delay is reduced by armor deficit % (50% armor = 50% shield delay [not depletion delay]) -gives armor resists against projectile, explosive, and rail weapons. (CPU could give shields slightly stronger resists to plasma/laser). -like damage control it could increase base suit HP making bleed out after death more difficult.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2499	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:31:00 - [14] - Quote Move PG modules to high in dropsuit, mean that vehicle PG modules must be moved to high as well? Because vehicles are the only place where i need PG mods, in dropsuit i try to fit everything within the limits, if i can't fit something on STD, i change to ADV and so on, if it's not possible even with PRO suit, then i change the fitting (first of all i put a cheap weapon), in vehicle there is no possibility and you must fit PG/CPU mod. My vote: move PG to the high modules, move also codebreakers, the high modules choice is poor, something more would help diversity. PSN: ogamega "Dust is full of communist who despise people with enough isk to buy expensive items"
Boot Booter Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dark Taboo 713	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:33:00 - [15] - Quote Should they require CPU to fit? I've always wondered why that was. Maybe myro stims need a bonus to stamina or something. I vaguely recal recieving a special myro stim that did this from way back. What happened to the repair tool glow? Why won't CCP answer? Conspiracy?
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1507	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:33:00 - [16] - Quote Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? well you can still melee while cloaked
Soraya Xel Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 2904	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:34:00 - [17] - Quote I use them occasionally. It's just rare my limiting factor is power grid. Whereas I have had a CPU upgrade on almost every fit I run for ages. I'd like to be your CPM1 candidate
Waka Waka-Waka Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 5	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:35:00 - [18] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? well you can still melee while cloaked Oooooh really?
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 581	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:36:00 - [19] - Quote As others mentioned, I use PG upgrades to put something good on a low-end suit. I use them more than CPU extenders...but I rarely go out in these suits so it's neither here nor there. CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... In all honesty, their only use is to make a novelty fit - some have had real fun with this - stacking them on a cloaked commando etc. Really...there is no way to make them better IMO - when is it ever gonna be better to run something that boosts melee damage over something else. Give them some other bonus too? The melee boost is still pointless IMHO, without a game mode that is melee only. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Booby Tuesdays Ahrendee Mercenaries 662	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:38:00 - [20] - Quote I use them on my super equipment fits and my speed hacking fits. Both Min Logi suits. I get 116 or so PG with Core Skills maxed. It's the only way I can have all 4 equipment slots be top tier Proto (not just the standard Proto stuff), and carry my Freedom MD. The suit is very squishy based on current standards, so I have to use Complex Extenders, which eat PG, as well as the Core Focused Repair Tool, Wyrkomi Triage Hives, etc. Don't have the exact numbers since I'm not at home. If you want PG and Myofibrils and such to be more useful and used, make Mid-Slots for the suits. No one will give up a basic plate for a PG upgrade. I do, to play my role better, but it nerfs my suit at the same time. Do I stack eHP to be able to make it to cover since everything kills you from crazy range now, or do I play my role "properly" and die in that role more often? Melee Weapon of Choice: Nokia-3310 Prof. V

Beren Hurin Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 2451	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:38:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... Also, why are we committed to their original design choice of meleeing? As far as kills go, it seems like an extremely ineffective strategy. To be fast enough to catch people you have to be light enough to move that fast, which means you don't often have the HP to survive an encounter to melee. Unless...they reduced the movement speed penalty from armor...?
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 464	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:39:00 - [22] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... you could fix those by adding movement speed bonus. so that a full biotic fit is possible using kincats, card regs, and the stims to become faster, stronger, longer lasting...
Chunky Munkey Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 4993	Posted - 2014.07.17 14:43:00 - [23] - Quote They'd be useful as %age upgrades, not a fixed amount. Plus, Minmatar suits are the most likely to need them, whilst not having the lows to fit them. RIP Stinky Sleeve. RIP Dust514. See you on Destiny. PSN: GSDSteVB
Broonfondle Majikthies Dogs of War Gaming 1213	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:02:00 - [24] - Quote Personally because I always try to play within the suits means then I have little need for PG upgrades. I see them as a boost for newer players while they're getting their system skills up. After all, they sacrifice a slot to enhance another with is less efficient than receiving the benefits from 2 slots. "The air smells damp and oppressive, like a wet nun" "Why am I talking to a lightbulb? Illuminate me"
JRleo jr Xer Cloud Consortium 59	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:05:00 - [25] - Quote Move them to high slots Fixed. Max level brony. My special magic is trolling.
Anarchide Greedy Bastards 2341	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:09:00 - [26] - Quote I use them on lower-tier dropsuits to cram more advanced gear into them. CPM1 Underdog *Greedy Bastards*
Aero Yassavi Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 8819	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:15:00 - [27] - Quote I'd say it's definitely the by-product of the STD/ADV/PRO dropsuit tiers. If you need more PG, you simply move up a tier. Once you get to PRO with max fitting skills you can pretty much fit anything. When you look at vehicles or even ships in EVE that do not have this whole STD/ADV/PRO thing going on, you see more use of PG upgrade modules. So, I mean, unless you're interested in removing all tiers in dropsuits and having the only progression be the suit bonuses per level (which I somehow doubt you are) then there's not much you can do that wouldn't have a ripple effect on other things. Suits can generally get all the PG they need. Amarr are the good guys Their way of the Commando seems right and noble
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game Dark Taboo 1597	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:18:00 - [28] - Quote make them capable of being used in both high and low slots All Hail Legion
richiesutie 2 The Rainbow Effect 881	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:22:00 - [29] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... Id recommend a 25% buff of meele dmg on all suits ive been using them a lot lately and tbh they arnt far off from being op compilation of Patch/build notes Check it out! :)
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 581	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:24:00 - [30] - Quote ADAM-OF-EVE wrote: make them capable of being used in both high and low slots Now that there sounds useful. Do the same for CPU boost mods. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz

Kaughst Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 529	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:31:00 - [31] - Quote I can only guess that it is because of a lack of PG intensive modules in the high slots. "The road to hell is paved with good intentions."
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3593	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:41:00 - [32] - Quote PG upgrades are useless for armor focuses suits cause it takes up a tanking slot. And for every other situation its better to downgrade something on your fit then using a PG upgrade.
Scheneighnay McBob Cult of Gasai 5668	Posted - 2014.07.17 15:53:00 - [33] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... The only reason I can pull out of this is that nobody needs more PG badly enough that they're willing to sacrifice an extremely valuable lowslot. Right now, Scouts, Logis, and Sentinels can fit whatever they damn well please without needing PG or CPU upgrades. pé¦pâ+pé¦pâ½pâäpâ¬pâ¦pé¦pâ¼pâ+pâêpü»sñ¬S+ïpéè
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6335	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:21:00 - [34] - Quote As an armor tanker, I've found it best just to forego them entirely in favor of something else. Using two low end modules is usually better than trying to force a high-end module, in the end. They're just not worth the effort and 9/10 I'm usually starved on CPU anyway (especially with the PLC). Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6578	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:33:00 - [35] - Quote If you are an armor tanker it's best if you just use something else entirely. The answer wouldn't be to move them to highslots but the main issue here stems from the fact that there aren't any worthwhile slots in the Highslots for Armor to excuse the use of a PG mod. To better explain myself here are two hypothetical scenarios. Useful PG in Low slot: Crap, with the "Enhanced Kin Kat", "Complex Codebreaker" and " Complex A.I. turret designator" module I can't have a finished suit. Erggh, what should I sacrifice....Hmmm, I need all my high slots because I'm a Medium Frame Hacker so I guess I could deal without one plate or just switch plates....yeah that's fine. Not Useful in Low slot: Argh, crap. Just ran out of PG. Looks at Highslots Well I don't really need this shield extender anway and recharger anyway and the second I replace the PG mod I have more than enough PG anyway so meh.... Not the most coherent example but you get my drift. I honestly think the CPU modules should go in the Highslots but if not...I guess I'd be fine with PG modules being in high, although that's just a temporary band-aid on an issue that will get worse. (If other modules make it into the game...which I doubt will happen in DUST) see you space cowboy...
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 3567	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:46:00 - [36] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. I use them on my Logistics gk.0 so I can both have 4 proto EQ, a proto LW, and over 1000 total HP- I believe you've seen this fit, though the EQ gets rotated around. A lot of the problem I see with the PG upgrade is the CPU cost. If I've got the CPU for the mod but not the PG I try and fit a PG upgrade but the cost on it usually means I no longer have the CPU to use it. That makes it more likely that I'll either downgrade some modules or just change the theme of the suit all together. - On the other hand, another issue with not using the modules is that to unlock the complex pg upgrade you need engineering V, but by the time you have engineering V the suit have enough PG for everything I want. Logistics are really the only suits I use them on. Edit: Or I'm using a Cal suit that doesn't have enough low slots to fit one. Appia Vibbia for CPM1 Personal Theme Song
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 79	Posted - 2014.07.17 16:58:00 - [37] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. considering they take a slot and is pointless to stack remore all fitting cost and allow them to be fitted in both high and low here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol after charlie it will be"oh shlt a amarr scout walked in"
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1343	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:01:00 - [38] - Quote The only time I use a PG upgrade in on a Python ADS. I'm not even sure if I have ever used a pg upgrade on a dropsuit. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1343	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:03:00 - [39] - Quote Scheneighnay McBob wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... The only reason I can pull out of this is that nobody needs more PG badly enough that they're willing to sacrifice an extremely valuable lowslot. Right now, Scouts, Logis, and Sentinels can fit whatever they damn well please without needing PG or CPU upgrades. Stop lumping Caldari Sentinels in with the rest of the Armour crowd! Shields have it totally different to you armour lot. Regularly I do not have enough CPU to fit the shield tank I would like. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Haerr Legio DXIV 1081	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:04:00 - [40] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... How about 2,3,4% bonus to movement speed? 10 / 10 would read again.

iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 79	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:08:00 - [41] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... not really my 700 ehp cal scout got clothes lined by a sentinel rocking two of them, long story short most shameful death ever next to that time pyrex blew my tank up with a flaylock here is a joke, so an amarr scout walks in lol after charlie it will be"oh shlt a amarr scout walked in"
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15958	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:26:00 - [42] - Quote I fear that moving the PG unit to high would exemplify armor tanking much more. While it would solve some issues of dual tanking (ie shoving shields in top row just because) The other issue with the current PG progression is that only two types of players have to deal with it. Newbies; and Top gear vets. People who are between suffer naught from fitting problem. While I do not identify this as the sole culprit there are others issues I feel are contributing to this First of which is by nature of the game to help keep it lower budget on the network and easier access to the common audience. This problem would be low module count. By nature things very limited in resource typically you are in the mindset of making every slot count. Combine into the environment of shoving in a PG module upgrade RARELY translates into another modules worth of additional power. Thus ergo its far better to just shove a downgrade (which goes back to the issue of not having a tetricide as well; however this is the positive of the current tiered system) that would fit within fitting budget without wasting a module slot at all. There are a few solutions. 1. Offer something that cannot be obtained by use of another module. Arguably you can say that PG addition is a unique aspect of the module but Ill retort to the previous statement that some tighter fits can give up a higher tiered module to allow a lower one is just as similar in function. An example would be additional ammunition in the reserve; however that makes little to no lore sense as I just stated it for an example. 2. Offer expansive hybridization whose performance would be to slot costly to reproduce but the offering on any one aspect is far weaker than specialized module. IE Shield Recharge; Shield HP Max, Stamina Max, Stamina Recover AND PG 3. Alter the PG of various items (bad route) I feel that this may be a solution but I am emotionally opposed to it as its additionally lots of work and to top it off its vibes of bad enforcement of game play. Positive enforcement should be rewarding not punishing. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6579	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:29:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... What about an increase to jump height? That would be really, REALLY useful for the armor tankers that can't jump over the tiniest of things. Which is really messed up because my Gallente Assault is extremely lightweight for an armor suit and can still can't jump over the smallest of side railing. It wouldn't make them go faster, wouldn't make them do anything better, but just have something somehat useful for armor tankers in the Highslots. If you want a lore reason it's that it makes your muscles more reactive to stimuli signal stimuli causing contraction and releasing process to be more rapid or some jargon like that. tl;dr: Give MyroFibril Stimulants a bonus to jump height. P.S. What about a bonus to walking speed? Not dramatic but just throwing that out there. see you space cowboy...
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11087	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:39:00 - [44] - Quote PG upgrades to high slots. I always want to use them, yet always stuck because once I use one, hey I don't lack PG anymore! Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11087	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:45:00 - [45] - Quote Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I fear that moving the PG unit to high would exemplify armor tanking much more. While it would solve some issues of dual tanking (ie shoving shields in top row just because) The other issue with the current PG progression is that only two types of players have to deal with it. Newbies; and Top gear vets. People who are between suffer naught from fitting problem. While I do not identify this as the sole culprit there are others issues I feel are contributing to this First of which is by nature of the game to help keep it lower budget on the network and easier access to the common audience. This problem would be low module count. By nature things very limited in resource typically you are in the mindset of making every slot count. Combine into the environment of shoving in a PG module upgrade RARELY translates into another modules worth of additional power. Thus ergo its far better to just shove a downgrade (which goes back to the issue of not having a tetricide as well; however this is the positive of the current tiered system) that would fit within fitting budget without wasting a module slot at all. There are a few solutions. 1. Offer something that cannot be obtained by use of another module. Arguably you can say that PG addition is a unique aspect of the module but Ill retort to the previous statement that some tighter fits can give up a higher tiered module to allow a lower one is just as similar in function. An example would be additional ammunition in the reserve; however that makes little to no lore sense as I just stated it for an example. 2. Offer expansive hybridization whose performance would be to slot costly to reproduce but the offering on any one aspect is far weaker than specialized module. IE Shield Recharge; Shield HP Max, Stamina Max, Stamina Recover AND PG 3. Alter the PG of various items (bad route) I feel that this may be a solution but I am emotionally opposed to it as its additionally lots of work and to top it off its vibes of bad enforcement of game play. Positive enforcement should be rewarding not punishing. So, PG upgrades to improve my armor suit isn't fine, but CPU upgrades for a shield tanker is fine? Stop being this sensitive, armor was never that far ahead of shields, that little buff in Bravo (or Alpha) was all that was needed. Fun fact: Shield tankers complain about having to fit a CPU upgrade, but it's not for the shields alone. It's for the rest of the suit, they want to get proto weapons, proto hives, proto low slots. But in my armor suit I can RARELY afford all of that already! And yet most shield suits, saying how it's terrible to have to use CPU upgrades, pack everything proto to the max. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6581	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:50:00 - [46] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I fear that moving the PG unit to high would exemplify armor tanking much more. While it would solve some issues of dual tanking (ie shoving shields in top row just because) The other issue with the current PG progression is that only two types of players have to deal with it. Newbies; and Top gear vets. People who are between suffer naught from fitting problem. While I do not identify this as the sole culprit there are others issues I feel are contributing to this First of which is by nature of the game to help keep it lower budget on the network and easier access to the common audience. This problem would be low module count. By nature things very limited in resource typically you are in the mindset of making every slot count. Combine into the environment of shoving in a PG module upgrade RARELY translates into another modules worth of additional power. Thus ergo its far better to just shove a downgrade (which goes back to the issue of not having a tetricide as well; however this is the positive of the current tiered system) that would fit within fitting budget without wasting a module slot at all. There are a few solutions. 1. Offer something that cannot be obtained by use of another module. Arguably you can say that PG addition is a unique aspect of the module but Ill retort to the previous statement that some tighter fits can give up a higher tiered module to allow a lower one is just as similar in function. An example would be additional ammunition in the reserve; however that makes little to no lore sense as I just stated it for an example. 2. Offer expansive hybridization whose performance would be to slot costly to reproduce but the offering on any one aspect is far weaker than specialized module. IE Shield Recharge; Shield HP Max, Stamina Max, Stamina Recover AND PG 3. Alter the PG of various items (bad route) I feel that this may be a solution but I am emotionally opposed to it as its additionally lots of work and to top it off its vibes of bad enforcement of game play. Positive enforcement should be rewarding not punishing. So, PG upgrades to improve my armor suit isn't fine, but CPU upgrades for a shield tanker is fine? Stop being this sensitive, armor was never that far ahead of shields, that little buff in Bravo (or Alpha) was all that was needed. Cat's very right. By itself neither armor tanking nor shield tanking aren't far from each other in "fairness". It's the dual tanking that throws it off entirely. see you space cowboy...
Heimdallr69 Nyain San 2813	Posted - 2014.07.17 17:52:00 - [47] - Quote Honestly I've never used one then again I use an assault with no nades or sidearms. Using an assault I like to run damage mods and because of that I need all the extra tank I can get so I sacrifice the sidearm and nades for hp. Removed inappropriate content - CCP Logibro
I-Shayz-I I----------I 4139	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:03:00 - [48] - Quote Just make them similar to cpu mods in the way that they give a percentage of increase rather than a base amount. Because a complex cpu mod can give me like 150 cpu on my logi...yet a pg mod will give me the same pg no matter what the suit. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11425	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:26:00 - [49] - Quote Fizzer94 wrote: No CPU cost. High Slots. Fixed. I support this, especially changing them to high slots. High PG-consuming modules tend to be on low slots, so having the PG upgrade module on lows uses up a low slot that could be used to fit what you initially needed PG for anyway; so while you do get more PG, you lose the low slot you actually needed to use it. There is also a lack of non-HP high slot modules for armor tankers, this would help. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1346	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:30:00 - [50] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. How can this not be true, CCP Rattiti? The goal is to not use either the CPU nor the PG modules. Using either of them means you are giving up a low slot to satisfy an equipment slot, normally. Low slots work towards survivability while equipment slots are for either the invisible scout users, logistics or WP reward solutions (proxies, RE, etc.). PG modules should not cost CPU. At the least there should be an additional module that works in the high slot while not removing the low modules entirely. Changing the low slot PG modules to high slots mean that armor based users will lose one of their few high slots available to a PG module. Thus giving the scanner heavy cloaked scouts even more of an advantage. Does this mean that the, months delayed, adjustment of medium suits is pending? We were told around fan fest that the medium suits were not done. They had been rushed into service without the final adjustments to slots and CPU/PG values. Yet little if anything has been done since then. No further announcements have shown up in my efforts. As modules seem to have several consistencies between mercs and vehicles does this means some nuke/nerf is in process for them as well? Losing the only high slot or half of them to an armor vehicle would be atrocious as there is no balance for scanners or escape modules (FI and after burners). And so it goes.

KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11425	Posted - 2014.07.17 18:34:00 - [51] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... I would get rid of them, refund the SP, and add their function into cardiac regulators. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 964	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:00:00 - [52] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. The only time I ever used them was on my Minscout, but since I was giving away the low slot the Galscout could go faster by utilizing that low slot, so I just quit using the Min. It would make more sense to make them high slot, like CPU upgrade is low slot, but I don't know if I would use them. Because, that's why.
Benjamin Ciscko Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 2496	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:11:00 - [53] - Quote I use them quite a bit on some of my shield tanks and on a second note will these changes affect vehicle PG mods as well. Tanker/Logi 0 The number of 7ucks given
Crimson ShieId Psygod9 668	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:43:00 - [54] - Quote I've only used the PG upgrades on one fitting before, I believe, and that was an advanced Caldari medium frame if I recall correctly, which I no longer have. PG upgrades are just rarely needed in most cases and when they are needed, it's usually easily to just downgrade a weapon or something of the sort. The logi suits are the ones I can see making use of these, but for everything else, giving up a slot just to get a slightly better piece of equipment or weapon isn't usually worth it. I'd recommend placing these (And CPU upgrades) in both the highs and lows, thus allowing people a bit more flexibility. Frankly, I'd like that option with quite a few of the modules in this game. It would offer more diversity for suit fittings and the fact that certain modules are only in a specific slot tends to sway me away from using those modules. (I'm looking at you, shield tanking modules!) As for the stimulants, I think these are underused mostly because... Points to the SP requirement Nearly a million SP to get something that's usually good for little more than a chuckle every now and then. Newer players aren't going to have the SP to put into them, and most of the veteran players already had their fun with them. I feel the same way about a lot of the support modules in this game. They're all so expensive to spec into, and while I'd like to get some of them (Regulators, rechargers, the stimulants, etc...) I don't have the SP to just toss into something like that, and even if I did, I'd rather put it into equipment or weapons or proficiency or basically anything aside from those modules. Lowering the SP cost on some of them might encourage more players to spec into them, and as I said before, giving players the ability to put those types of modules into highs or lows would likely increase diversity. Nova Knives are best sidearm.
Stile451 Red Star. EoN. 346	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:53:00 - [55] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: A lot of the problem I see with the PG upgrade is the CPU cost. If I've got the CPU for the mod but not the PG I try and fit a PG upgrade but the cost on it usually means I no longer have the CPU to use it. This is my experience for the most part although I do use them on a few suits. As for Myofibril Stimulants they need to have a different use such as a slight buff to movement speed and/or modifying the damage of Nova Knives. They aren't used simply because they aren't useful.
Zindorak CaUsE-4-CoNcErN 137	Posted - 2014.07.17 19:55:00 - [56] - Quote Remove CPU requirement
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 466	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:41:00 - [57] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I fear that moving the PG unit to high would exemplify armor tanking much more. While it would solve some issues of dual tanking (ie shoving shields in top row just because) The other issue with the current PG progression is that only two types of players have to deal with it. Newbies; and Top gear vets. People who are between suffer naught from fitting problem. While I do not identify this as the sole culprit there are others issues I feel are contributing to this First of which is by nature of the game to help keep it lower budget on the network and easier access to the common audience. This problem would be low module count. By nature things very limited in resource typically you are in the mindset of making every slot count. Combine into the environment of shoving in a PG module upgrade RARELY translates into another modules worth of additional power. Thus ergo its far better to just shove a downgrade (which goes back to the issue of not having a tetricide as well; however this is the positive of the current tiered system) that would fit within fitting budget without wasting a module slot at all. There are a few solutions. 1. Offer something that cannot be obtained by use of another module. Arguably you can say that PG addition is a unique aspect of the module but Ill retort to the previous statement that some tighter fits can give up a higher tiered module to allow a lower one is just as similar in function. An example would be additional ammunition in the reserve; however that makes little to no lore sense as I just stated it for an example. 2. Offer expansive hybridization whose performance would be to slot costly to reproduce but the offering on any one aspect is far weaker than specialized module. IE Shield Recharge; Shield HP Max, Stamina Max, Stamina Recover AND PG 3. Alter the PG of various items (bad route) I feel that this may be a solution but I am emotionally opposed to it as its additionally lots of work and to top it off its vibes of bad enforcement of game play. Positive enforcement should be rewarding not punishing. So, PG upgrades to improve my armor suit isn't fine, but CPU upgrades for a shield tanker is fine? Stop being this sensitive, armor was never that far ahead of shields, that little buff in Bravo (or Alpha) was all that was needed. Fun fact: Shield tankers complain about having to fit a CPU upgrade, but it's not for the shields alone. It's for the rest of the suit, they want to get proto weapons, proto hives, proto low slots. But in my armor suit I can RARELY afford all of that already! And yet most shield suits, saying how it's terrible to have to use CPU upgrades, pack everything proto to the max. its the same way in eve online. shield suits typically run fitting mods. whats backwards in dust is that damage mods are high slots. damage mods are supposed to be the hard counter to high eHP fits, but instead we give armor tankers high HP and high damage... as well as rep tools, armor hives, and needles. its a wonder anyone shield tanks at all around here. and yes shield tankers have to fit cpu mods... which is exactly why a 3/1 and 4/1 slot layout for cal assault is broken when we also need a regulator as well
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 217	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:44:00 - [58] - Quote Combine cpu and pg chips again. Those were cool and you wont be messing with buffing armor again bby putting pg in high slots.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6584	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:52:00 - [59] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Combine cpu and pg chips again. Those were cool and you wont be messing with buffing armor again bby putting pg in high slots. You're talking about the Diagnostic unit for vehicles right? see you space cowboy...
J4yne C0bb Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 481	Posted - 2014.07.17 20:58:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". Yeah, exactly. This never made any sense; PG upgrades need to be a high slot, otherwise they are kinda worthless. The only time I can recall ever having used on was on some mil vehicle fitting, never on a suit. Min Logi \| aka Punch R0ckgroin, fatman

Doc DDD TeamPlayers 217	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:02:00 - [61] - Quote Python needs pg in low slot yeah the diagnostic unit was cool.. should bring it back and do the same for dropsuits
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 217	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:03:00 - [62] - Quote Oh and INCUBUS WOULD BE MORE OP WITH PG IN HIGH SLOTS.. DO NOT DO THIS
Denesian Morenti The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 28	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:20:00 - [63] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? well you can still melee while cloaked I foresee massive abuse with this idea. I like my raspberries melted with a side of ice cream.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11091	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:24:00 - [64] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: Cat Merc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I fear that moving the PG unit to high would exemplify armor tanking much more. While it would solve some issues of dual tanking (ie shoving shields in top row just because) The other issue with the current PG progression is that only two types of players have to deal with it. Newbies; and Top gear vets. People who are between suffer naught from fitting problem. While I do not identify this as the sole culprit there are others issues I feel are contributing to this First of which is by nature of the game to help keep it lower budget on the network and easier access to the common audience. This problem would be low module count. By nature things very limited in resource typically you are in the mindset of making every slot count. Combine into the environment of shoving in a PG module upgrade RARELY translates into another modules worth of additional power. Thus ergo its far better to just shove a downgrade (which goes back to the issue of not having a tetricide as well; however this is the positive of the current tiered system) that would fit within fitting budget without wasting a module slot at all. There are a few solutions. 1. Offer something that cannot be obtained by use of another module. Arguably you can say that PG addition is a unique aspect of the module but Ill retort to the previous statement that some tighter fits can give up a higher tiered module to allow a lower one is just as similar in function. An example would be additional ammunition in the reserve; however that makes little to no lore sense as I just stated it for an example. 2. Offer expansive hybridization whose performance would be to slot costly to reproduce but the offering on any one aspect is far weaker than specialized module. IE Shield Recharge; Shield HP Max, Stamina Max, Stamina Recover AND PG 3. Alter the PG of various items (bad route) I feel that this may be a solution but I am emotionally opposed to it as its additionally lots of work and to top it off its vibes of bad enforcement of game play. Positive enforcement should be rewarding not punishing. So, PG upgrades to improve my armor suit isn't fine, but CPU upgrades for a shield tanker is fine? Stop being this sensitive, armor was never that far ahead of shields, that little buff in Bravo (or Alpha) was all that was needed. Fun fact: Shield tankers complain about having to fit a CPU upgrade, but it's not for the shields alone. It's for the rest of the suit, they want to get proto weapons, proto hives, proto low slots. But in my armor suit I can RARELY afford all of that already! And yet most shield suits, saying how it's terrible to have to use CPU upgrades, pack everything proto to the max. its the same way in eve online. shield suits typically run fitting mods. whats backwards in dust is that damage mods are high slots. damage mods are supposed to be the hard counter to high eHP fits, but instead we give armor tankers high HP and high damage... as well as rep tools, armor hives, and needles. its a wonder anyone shield tanks at all around here. and yes shield tankers have to fit cpu mods... which is exactly why a 3/1 and 4/1 slot layout for cal assault is broken when we also need a regulator as well Alright then, if you want damage mods in low slots I want kin cats, codebreakers, cardiac regulators and dampeners in high slots. Because it's EVE Online, right? Besides, they're buffing Assault CPU/PG, you might not need CPU upgrades anymore. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC
Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1457	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:27:00 - [65] - Quote Its rare because CPU is far more restrictive. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 217	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:27:00 - [66] - Quote Well by that logic you might not need pg upgrades anymore
Monkey MAC Rough Riders.. 3072	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:30:00 - [67] - Quote PG modules and CPU modules are in effect pointless in Infantry builds. Why sacrifice that slot, when I can simply step a few modules down a meta levels and still get comparable performamce? Which is better? 1x Advanced Repper 1x Basic Plate 1x Proto Repper 1x PG module PG is typically used by low slot modules, so it should be a high slot module. CPU is typically used by high slot modules, so it should (and is) be a low slot module. The aim of your module reboots should be to have low, slot tankers NOT have Tanking mods in their high slot. And Vice Versa. They call me the Monkey - I like to jump off sh** and piss RE's all over your tank! Monkey Mac - Forum Warrior Lvl 3
Brotherband Fantom Company 22	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:33:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... Have the Myrofibril Stimulant affect nova knives as well. I do not expect us to live through this fight. My only request is that you fight with honor and die with dignity.
Lynn Beck Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 2052	Posted - 2014.07.17 21:37:00 - [69] - Quote Myrofibs could increase Melee% against vehicles(?!)? Imagine stacking 4, each increasing(by a set %) melee % to vehicles by 20%? A Caldari Assault with 5 would deal something like 600 melee, at 100%(it increases by a set %, not multiplying) Or a Min Commando with like 900 melee and 40% efficacy? General John Ripper -BAM! I'm Emeril Lagasse. This message was approved by the 'Nobody Loved You' Foundation
voidfaction Void of Faction 336	Posted - 2014.07.17 23:33:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. I would say the problem with it not being used it because most can fit all proto mods without needing more PG. instead of giving more PG to suits that want more PG maybe you should give everyone less so they are needed. same goes for cpu. I would also like to see PG go into high slot to balance the fitting with a cpu mod. Its kinda like the weapon optimization skills are not needed because most can fit all proto without the need to level it up. change weapon optimizations to favor the race suit. like gallente weapons give cpu optimization minmatar weapons pg optimization. my gal scout is short on cpu but my gal ar and shotgun has pg optimization so those skills are useless. you would think a gallente weapon with a gallente suit would be the most optimal fitting cpu/pg wise

IgniteableAura Pro Hic Immortalis 1397	Posted - 2014.07.18 00:16:00 - [71] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. Probably better off used in a high slot. Most PG intensive mods are in the lows anyway like you stated. Don't make it cost CPU either. That way CPU/PG enhancers have the same "drawbacks" Could look into making them grenade or equip slots, but that might make a whole different problem. I know this is a server side tweak but a neat option could be a whole new slot that houses only specific mods like CPU/PG mods. My Youtube Biomassed Podcast
Doc DDD TeamPlayers 219	Posted - 2014.07.18 01:27:00 - [72] - Quote Do not move them to the high slot. Vehicles would be highly imbalanced ( dropships ). Any suit that is shield based will be punished ( Cal logi trying to fit 4 proto equips if slot changes are made ). All armor based suits will love the idea, and I don't blame them, but shields suck right now and this would be a step backwards.
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6585	Posted - 2014.07.18 01:33:00 - [73] - Quote Doc DDD wrote: Do not move them to the high slot. Vehicles would be highly imbalanced ( dropships ). Any suit that is shield based will be punished ( Cal logi trying to fit 4 proto equips if slot changes are made ). All armor based suits will love the idea, and I don't blame them, but shields suck right now and this would be a step backwards. Not that I care for a one solution over the other. I'd like to point out that you could leave PG modules on Vehicles where they are while putting PG modules for suits in the High Slots. It doesn't have to be a complete line see you space cowboy...
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12001	Posted - 2014.07.18 01:36:00 - [74] - Quote Should players have to use Upgrade Modules? It's almost certainly more useful to take the lowest tier of a module type than fork out for extra PG and CPU wasting a slot and not being able to fit the correct module anyway....... I mean I HATE having to use PG/CPU modules on my HAV to fit modules...... and were not even talking ADV or PRO. I required ADV and Pro CPU extenders to even fit Basic armour modules on an armour tank with maxed armour and turret skills..... that **** is not right. If I could use a Rig slot to fill to PG and CPU needs.....that would be different and I would almost certainly take CPU/PG rigs. "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6585	Posted - 2014.07.18 01:50:00 - [75] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Should players have to use Upgrade Modules? It's almost certainly more useful to take the lowest tier of a module type than fork out for extra PG and CPU wasting a slot and not being able to fit the correct module anyway....... I mean I HATE having to use PG/CPU modules on my HAV to fit modules...... and were not even talking ADV or PRO. I required ADV and Pro CPU extenders to even fit Basic armour modules on an armour tank with maxed armour and turret skills..... that **** is not right. If I could use a Rig slot to fill to PG and CPU needs.....that would be different and I would almost certainly take CPU/PG rigs. Let me tell you a story of heresy.... when I first started this game....ages ago.....I was once Caldari Thunder shatters throughout the room I used everything Caldari back then (which was not hard to do at all ofc, thanks to CCP favoritism) Anywho, back then I we got more than enough SP per match to shake a stick at. You could make our weekly cap 3 times over in two days if you played enough. So with all my SP I had all the fitting skills, which were a lot more generous back then, and still I needed a CPU module on my Saggaris. And I used them gladly. You know why? Because it was in the opposite slots from which I tanked with so it didn't bother me none. If we move PG modules for vehicles for the Highslot, what kind of worms are we digging into? see you space cowboy...
Ralden Caster KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 63	Posted - 2014.07.18 03:00:00 - [76] - Quote The CPU Upgrade modules go in the low slots, while leaving the high slots open for the mode CPU-demanding modules. The PG Upgrade goes in the low slots, which doesn't make sense, as PG-intensive modules are also fit in the low slots. A low slot is sacrificed to fit a CPU-Intensive module in the high slot, but sacrificing a low slot to fit a low slot module means that there would likely be no need for the PG Upgrade anyways, as, for instance, if you can fill 3 low slots without the PG being overused, but the 4th slot tips you over the limit, so there would be no use using a PG Upgrade module, as there would be no room to fit the module left. Team Fortress 2
Ralden Caster KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 63	Posted - 2014.07.18 03:02:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... Make them extend melee range and decrease stamina usage? Team Fortress 2
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 12004	Posted - 2014.07.18 03:09:00 - [78] - Quote Sgt Kirk wrote: True Adamance wrote: Should players have to use Upgrade Modules? It's almost certainly more useful to take the lowest tier of a module type than fork out for extra PG and CPU wasting a slot and not being able to fit the correct module anyway....... I mean I HATE having to use PG/CPU modules on my HAV to fit modules...... and were not even talking ADV or PRO. I required ADV and Pro CPU extenders to even fit Basic armour modules on an armour tank with maxed armour and turret skills..... that **** is not right. If I could use a Rig slot to fill to PG and CPU needs.....that would be different and I would almost certainly take CPU/PG rigs. Let me tell you a story of heresy.... when I first started this game....ages ago.....I was once Caldari Thunder shatters throughout the room I used everything Caldari back then (which was not hard to do at all ofc, thanks to CCP favoritism) Anywho, back then I we got more than enough SP per match to shake a stick at. You could make our weekly cap 3 times over in two days if you played enough. So with all my SP I had all the fitting skills, which were a lot more generous back then, and still I needed a CPU module on my Saggaris. And I used them gladly. You know why? Because it was in the opposite slots from which I tanked with so it didn't bother me none. If we move PG modules for vehicles for the Highslot, what kind of worms are we digging into? I have to use a PG module on my Madrugar to fit 1x 80GJ Blaster 2x 20GJ Railguns Heavy Repair 120mm PLate or Hardener Scanner Nitrous And I have all turret skills to about V as well as maxed vehicle operation and armour operation skills....that's a bloody joke on a standard tank. "Your Faith stands as a shield for the Faithful, and you are one of His Angels." - Soren Tyrhannos to Templar Ouryon
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1518	Posted - 2014.07.18 03:10:00 - [79] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... you could fix those by adding movement speed bonus. so that a full biotic fit is possible using kincats, card regs, and the stims to become faster, stronger, longer lasting... Speed mods in the high slots is a recipe for huge disaster Imagine 500 armor Gal scouts being permanently under radar, cloaked, and moving at the speed of a minja, without the oversized hitbox . Be careful what you wish for. "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand
Gavr1lo Pr1nc1p Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 1518	Posted - 2014.07.18 03:11:00 - [80] - Quote Maybe combine myofibs and PG upgrades as a high slot? IDK, just trying to help here they take CPU but give you PG and melee damage, which would be necessary for, say, a kincatted melee fit "Minmitar Scout" and "Masochist" are synonyms. Kills-Archduke Ferd1nand

Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 313	Posted - 2014.07.18 04:07:00 - [81] - Quote logi suits DUST 514 Forums. You will never find a more wretched hive of scum and villa- er, I mean panty weights and neckbeards.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3811	Posted - 2014.07.18 04:19:00 - [82] - Quote I previously used them on a pretty high percentage of my Amarr log suits (horribly PG deficient... I need to mention that at least once a day,) but since it's a low I prioritized and spent a crapton of SP on maxing my fitting skills so I could get away with not using them anymore, they were totally gimping the suits. If you moved them to high slots, I would most likely start using them again... Have I mentioned that my Amarr logi is starving for PG? It might enable me to gasp actually use Amarrian weapons on my Amarr logi suit again. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15961	Posted - 2014.07.18 04:53:00 - [83] - Quote Cat Merc wrote: Iron Wolf Saber wrote: I fear that moving the PG unit to high would exemplify armor tanking much more. While it would solve some issues of dual tanking (ie shoving shields in top row just because) The other issue with the current PG progression is that only two types of players have to deal with it. Newbies; and Top gear vets. People who are between suffer naught from fitting problem. While I do not identify this as the sole culprit there are others issues I feel are contributing to this First of which is by nature of the game to help keep it lower budget on the network and easier access to the common audience. This problem would be low module count. By nature things very limited in resource typically you are in the mindset of making every slot count. Combine into the environment of shoving in a PG module upgrade RARELY translates into another modules worth of additional power. Thus ergo its far better to just shove a downgrade (which goes back to the issue of not having a tetricide as well; however this is the positive of the current tiered system) that would fit within fitting budget without wasting a module slot at all. There are a few solutions. 1. Offer something that cannot be obtained by use of another module. Arguably you can say that PG addition is a unique aspect of the module but Ill retort to the previous statement that some tighter fits can give up a higher tiered module to allow a lower one is just as similar in function. An example would be additional ammunition in the reserve; however that makes little to no lore sense as I just stated it for an example. 2. Offer expansive hybridization whose performance would be to slot costly to reproduce but the offering on any one aspect is far weaker than specialized module. IE Shield Recharge; Shield HP Max, Stamina Max, Stamina Recover AND PG 3. Alter the PG of various items (bad route) I feel that this may be a solution but I am emotionally opposed to it as its additionally lots of work and to top it off its vibes of bad enforcement of game play. Positive enforcement should be rewarding not punishing. So, PG upgrades to improve my armor suit isn't fine, but CPU upgrades for a shield tanker is fine? Stop being this sensitive, armor was never that far ahead of shields, that little buff in Bravo (or Alpha) was all that was needed. Fun fact: Shield tankers complain about having to fit a CPU upgrade, but it's not for the shields alone. It's for the rest of the suit, they want to get proto weapons, proto hives, proto low slots. But in my armor suit I can RARELY afford all of that already! And yet most shield suits, saying how it's terrible to have to use CPU upgrades, pack everything proto to the max. 0 of my fits use any fitting modules and other than commandos I have yet ran into fitting problems. Secondly you are proving my point that this will cause 'gulfing' between the two methods and further exacerbate the issue difference as to why armor is generally far more preferred over shields. Finally you didn't read the whole thing as evident of your snippy reply. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 124	Posted - 2014.07.18 06:52:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... Summary: -- The reason may be the appeal of them, that melee feels clunky with light weapons and sidearms used/equipped, except nova knives, which oddly have a nice 'punch' and seem to always hit (but it's quite ironic...). Heavies with Heavy weapons, with the side punch feels comfortable and accurate. What I believe with light and sidearm weapons is that the melee animation seems... strange, in my opinion. Taking the butt of the rifle and 'smacking' it into the target doesn't feel... violent enough. It feels relatively week, and seems to be fairly inaccurate at times. Details and Suggestions: -- Sound should also be taken into account, as the 'smack' doesn't sound (again) violent enough. The Heavy weapon's melee animation sounds like it's breaking bone or concrete, which is fine as is. The light and sidearm animation sounds seem to not appear forceful, or as if effort was being put into them. They could use a much harder 'thunk' when contacting something. -- The smacking animations do not feel violent enough. With light weapons, it would be preferable to have the whole side of the weapon to be shoved forcefully into the target. With sidearms (other than nova knives), I think a 'striking' animation would be nice, starting from either the top left to the bottom right or from left to right horizontally (similar motion of swinging a sword). -- The speed of the animations could also be taken into account as well, as they do appear a little slow, but shouldn't be insanely fast either. -- I think that the upcoming changes to nova knives could be added to melee as well, such as the already added arch damage, and a light form of 'aim adhesion' to help a little, but nova knives would still do immensely more damage, which is perfectly fine. Feedback: -- Any would be welcome My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
taxi bastard jihad taxi co. 154	Posted - 2014.07.18 07:56:00 - [85] - Quote i use them on my mini scout if i want a pure shield fit. saying that the mini scout is probrually the only suit which needs it
Mobius Kaethis Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1518	Posted - 2014.07.18 08:02:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. Eve side some of the PG upgrades actually boost shield recharge rate...making the modules do this in dust may make them more appealing. Part of the issue here is that all the PG requirement heavy items are low slot items. The same slot the PG upgrade fills. Most players would rather fill that slot with a lower tier item rather than wasting it on a PG upgrade. Fun > Realism
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 594	Posted - 2014.07.18 08:12:00 - [87] - Quote Appia Vibbia wrote: A lot of the problem I see with the PG upgrade is the CPU cost. If I've got the CPU for the mod but not the PG I try and fit a PG upgrade but the cost on it usually means I no longer have the CPU to use it. Doc DDD wrote: Combine cpu and pg chips again. Those were cool and you wont be messing with buffing armor again bby putting pg in high slots. I was about to suggest the same (if I've understood correctly). Have a single module that boosts both stats. Also, allow it to be placed in any slot. If that's a go, get some experts to theory craft the suits they would run with that to make sure it's balanced. Alternatively, ditch both CPU and PG mods and be done with it :) I assume any changes don't have to affect vehicle fittings - that's a separate balancing issue that should be addressed separately. Unless lore. Iron Wolf Saber wrote: The other issue with the current PG progression is that only two types of players have to deal with it. Newbies; and Top gear vets. People who are between suffer naught from fitting problem. Tell that to my M/1 Scout You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1162	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:12:00 - [88] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... I have been oblivious about PG upgrades being terrible. I have been using those on occasion (gonna calculate % of current fits soon) but especially during the slayer Caldari logi days - the abundance of lows to that suit enabled it to buff both it's PG and CPU. Nowadays, some logi fits need PG upgrades in order to fit all the equipment. Also, shield tanking fast mover needs PG upgrades as Red Cans (kincats) gulp a ton of PG. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1162	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:15:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. THAT is a big NO-NO. The free fitting cpu upgrade is a broken module and a freak amongst others. There should always be a cost even though how minimal. The point is that there's no sacrifice in fitting complex cpu mod over basic. Only balancing thing is isk price, and isk balancing is the worst balancing. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1163	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:35:00 - [90] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? Here goes: (gallente) logis: - Shield tanked, 2xRedCanned (kincat), max uplink suit - Cloaked 2xRedCanned runner for escape links Not much at the moment, actually... I too try to avoid 'wasting' a slot - but do accept it if I need that proto weapon or max equipment. I recall previously max proxy mine suit needed one. Obsolete Caldari slayer logis I mentioned before. Any non-scout cloak user. Multiple uplink suits. Multiple Kin cat users. And I state again, one big general type which needs PG upgrades is: Shield tanked fast moving slayer - though it's not at it's prime at current meta. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1163	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:43:00 - [91] - Quote Stile451 wrote: Appia Vibbia wrote: A lot of the problem I see with the PG upgrade is the CPU cost. If I've got the CPU for the mod but not the PG I try and fit a PG upgrade but the cost on it usually means I no longer have the CPU to use it. This is my experience for the most part although I do use them on a few suits. Well that's is a normal part of fitting tuning process. Never expect that to go away coz it shouldn't. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1163	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:49:00 - [92] - Quote If player stacks multiple high level modules on one fit, it's likely that he will run out of one or the other: PG or CPU. That can be helped via PG/CPU upgrade module. IN ESSENCE, PG/CPU UPGRADE MODULES CAN BE CONSIDERED AS A VOLUNTARY STACKING PENALTY. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
Toby Flenderson research lab 558	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:52:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... I saw a video of a min scout tanking myofibs and tried it myself. It's my favorite fitting now. You can one hit most medium suits . The suit is paper so it's balanced but be careful what you do to those things

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4479	Posted - 2014.07.18 09:59:00 - [94] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. THAT is a big NO-NO. The free fitting cpu upgrade is a broken module and a freak amongst others. There should always be a cost even though how minimal. The point is that there's no sacrifice in fitting complex cpu mod over basic. Only balancing thing is isk price, and isk balancing is the worst balancing. Excellent point! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1163	Posted - 2014.07.18 10:03:00 - [95] - Quote My guess why Rattati is mapping (PG) upgrade usability is that as both mods are low slots, it means granting some suits more low slots makes then harder to plan to balance. If a suit has abundant low slots - but has option not to armour tank - then it has access to enormous PG/CPU and therefore setting the said suits base PG/CPU is that much harder task. People would enjoy Dust a lot more if they accepted the fact that EVERYTHING is subject to change
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11428	Posted - 2014.07.18 10:22:00 - [96] - Quote Make it a high slot module, armor tankers need more high slot options. PG upgrades being in low slots make them have to compete for slot space with the very modules they're meant to help you fit. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+
Floyd20 Azizora Forty-Nine Fedayeen Minmatar Republic 66	Posted - 2014.07.18 10:52:00 - [97] - Quote Has anyone considered moving cpu mods to high slot instead? shield tanks are meant to be cpu heavy, and armor tanks are pg heavy. either give both the mod they need in their off slot, or give neither of them it. Also, PDU's from eve would be nice (less pg, but small shield bonuses). the one thing everyone here agrees is something needs to move up, and some of these mods need less pg usage. high slot utility mods: damage precision low slot utility: pg and cpu profile range speed and stamina hacking

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4480	Posted - 2014.07.18 10:56:00 - [98] - Quote Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Has anyone considered moving cpu mods to high slot instead? shield tanks are meant to be cpu heavy, and armor tanks are pg heavy. either give both the mod they need in their off slot, or give neither of them it. Also, PDU's from eve would be nice (less pg, but small shield bonuses). the one thing everyone here agrees is something needs to move up, and some of these mods need less pg usage. high slot utility mods: damage precision low slot utility: pg and cpu profile range speed and stamina hacking It seems to me that the only way for it to be useful, even in high, is to cram in another proto rep or plate. Personally I would alwas stick with adv low and a proto dmg mod in my high. Noone really replied with a good use case so we will take these ideas, and your myofib ideas into consideration for future buffs, but nothing immediate. Thanks everyone. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Alena Ventrallis S0VER31GN 1459	Posted - 2014.07.18 11:33:00 - [99] - Quote As there are modules that use CPU and no PG (dampeners, enhancers, etc.) this means that I will run out of CPU far more quickly than I will PG. With many skills that reduce CPU (Light/sidearm weapon trees for example) There are a handful of skills that reduce PG; for dropsuits, its the 4 racial logi suits reducing both pg/cpu for equipment. In fact, the only skill that reduces PG and PG alone is vehicle armor fitting, which only reduces pg for armor modules. Even with the skills so far skewed in favor of CPU fitting on both dropsuits and vehicles, CPU runs out far faster than PG does. Thus, CPU mods are more used, because it is the first to go over the limit. Fitting mods should be used when your skills are not high enough to fit what you want, requiring you to sacrifice a slot in order for your fit to... well, fit. Once you max out your fitting skills, they should be used very sparingly, only when absolutely necessary. An example of this is the CalLogi, which didn't need any fitting mods before 1.5 anyway, where they nerfed it's CPU. As it stands, only one suit is actually starved for pg, and that's the MinScout, which is being addressed. PG mods aren't used not because they are too weak or because they need a buff, but because they are not needed. Rattati has spoken. CalScout hitbox is fine. You're gun game is broken.
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 6352	Posted - 2014.07.18 12:03:00 - [100] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Has anyone considered moving cpu mods to high slot instead? shield tanks are meant to be cpu heavy, and armor tanks are pg heavy. either give both the mod they need in their off slot, or give neither of them it. Also, PDU's from eve would be nice (less pg, but small shield bonuses). the one thing everyone here agrees is something needs to move up, and some of these mods need less pg usage. high slot utility mods: damage precision low slot utility: pg and cpu profile range speed and stamina hacking It seems to me that the only way for it to be useful, even in high, is to cram in another proto rep or plate. Personally I would alwas stick with adv low and a proto dmg mod in my high. Noone really replied with a good use case so we will take these ideas, and your myofib ideas into consideration for future buffs, but nothing immediate. Thanks everyone. Kinda hard to weigh in on something that no-one really uses Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1

DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 471	Posted - 2014.07.18 14:26:00 - [101] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Has anyone considered moving cpu mods to high slot instead? shield tanks are meant to be cpu heavy, and armor tanks are pg heavy. either give both the mod they need in their off slot, or give neither of them it. Also, PDU's from eve would be nice (less pg, but small shield bonuses). the one thing everyone here agrees is something needs to move up, and some of these mods need less pg usage. high slot utility mods: damage precision low slot utility: pg and cpu profile range speed and stamina hacking It seems to me that the only way for it to be useful, even in high, is to cram in another proto rep or plate. Personally I would alwas stick with adv low and a proto dmg mod in my high. Noone really replied with a good use case so we will take these ideas, and your myofib ideas into consideration for future buffs, but nothing immediate. Thanks everyone. To be fair, nobody in eve use fitting mods either. The general rule is that if you need to use a fitting mod, you did something wrong in your fit or you need to improve your fitting skills. You can always find something more useful than a fitting mod
Jacques Cayton II Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 872	Posted - 2014.07.18 15:20:00 - [102] - Quote Nerf shields again why don't you We fight for the future of the State not our personal goals
Sgt Kirk Fatal Absolution 6595	Posted - 2014.07.18 15:40:00 - [103] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Noone really replied with a good use case so we will take these ideas, and your myofib ideas into consideration for future buffs, but nothing immediate. Thanks everyone. That's what I'm saying. For PG mods to actually be worth something You'd have to have Some good mods for armor in the Highslots. Without that we'd just look at these PG mods like, "lol no". see you space cowboy...
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 132	Posted - 2014.07.18 16:06:00 - [104] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Lies. Every seasoned python pilot uses one on every fit (s)he has. in the dropsuit terms- buff shield tanking, but also increade the PG cost. some sample numbers to play around with would be 60/80/120 for extenders shield extenders should also take less time to start to recharge, but recharge less HP/ cycle. make other shield modules useful! the only reason the aren't on the bottom is because they're used on MLT fits. nerf armor tanking (plates) by ~3% amarr heavies w/ 1200 HP are insane. nerf. nerf now. -- You called, sir?
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 199	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:09:00 - [105] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. I only use it on 'Supply' fits, which are fits whose only purpose is to drop lots of high end equipment of a specific type. Nanohives to build nano nests, drop uplinks to drop all over the map to give my team lots of opportunities to out flank, or pile up PEs to blow up vehicles at choke points. The drop link one is the only one I do not use without a supply depot near by. One big thing I want changed about PG modules is to remove the CPU requirement. CPU modules don't use PG, so why is the reverse not true about PG. The current behavior makes PG modules really CPU->PG transformation modules. They are upgrades and I'm using a whole slot to make up for a lack in my suit, so there is penalty enough already. I have wanted a module that upgrades both CPU and PG at the same time. The combined module should, obviously, upgrade less than individual modules so there is a trade off for getting to use one slot to upgrade both. I have many times wished there was CPU and PG modules that fit into high slots, so I could choose whether to fit them in high or low slots. I think, however, that this is really due to there being too few things to put in high slots and too much to put in low slots, making low slots superior for all builds except shield tanking ones. I think this would give too much of an advantage to suits with lots of low slots, so I wouldn't want this added without a redistribution of modules across high/low slots.
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 605	Posted - 2014.07.18 17:48:00 - [106] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Has anyone considered moving cpu mods to high slot instead? shield tanks are meant to be cpu heavy, and armor tanks are pg heavy. either give both the mod they need in their off slot, or give neither of them it. Also, PDU's from eve would be nice (less pg, but small shield bonuses). the one thing everyone here agrees is something needs to move up, and some of these mods need less pg usage. high slot utility mods: damage precision low slot utility: pg and cpu profile range speed and stamina hacking It seems to me that the only way for it to be useful, even in high, is to cram in another proto rep or plate. Personally I would alwas stick with adv low and a proto dmg mod in my high. Noone really replied with a good use case so we will take these ideas, and your myofib ideas into consideration for future buffs, but nothing immediate. Thanks everyone. To be fair, nobody in eve use fitting mods either. The general rule is that if you need to use a fitting mod, you did something wrong in your fit or you need to improve your fitting skills. You can always find something more useful than a fitting mod Sure they do. I have two Large Ancillary Current Routers on my Domi. Whether or not that means I should do something else that doesn't require them isn't really relevant, because that is my go-to fit, not a throw-away fit that I use in highly situational scenarios. Comparing DUST mods to Eve is problematic because mid-slots and rigs. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Atiim Fooly Cooly. Anime Empire. 10649	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:07:00 - [107] - Quote emm kay wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Lies. Every seasoned python pilot uses one on every fit (s)he has. That's not saying much considering how there aren't that many ADS pilots. Though I'm sure he's referring to Infantry PG Upgrades. And on that day, that very day, not a single Pilot had lived... -HAND
DozersMouse XIII Inner.Hell 855	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:12:00 - [108] - Quote I use them on very rare occasions one thing I noticed and I dont know if its been pointed out but why do PG extenders use up CPU and CPU extenders use zero grid? NERF THE TAMSEN!
Ashley Swift New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 1	Posted - 2014.07.18 18:37:00 - [109] - Quote I find the PG Upgrade to be not worth fitting due to loss of an armor plate. If damage wasn't so high and having 500 even armor on a Gallente Assault (STD or ADV) actually meant something, trying to put a better equipment on will mean nothing when I die in half the time. Moving it to a high slot is a very considerable option, perhaps even letting both the PG and CPU upgrades be available on both ends would make it fairer to players using different race suits. In the end deaths happen too quickly and it is not worth sacrificing health for a more optimized fitting. Now that you're close I feel like coming undone
DeathwindRising ROGUE RELICS 475	Posted - 2014.07.18 19:13:00 - [110] - Quote IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Has anyone considered moving cpu mods to high slot instead? shield tanks are meant to be cpu heavy, and armor tanks are pg heavy. either give both the mod they need in their off slot, or give neither of them it. Also, PDU's from eve would be nice (less pg, but small shield bonuses). the one thing everyone here agrees is something needs to move up, and some of these mods need less pg usage. high slot utility mods: damage precision low slot utility: pg and cpu profile range speed and stamina hacking It seems to me that the only way for it to be useful, even in high, is to cram in another proto rep or plate. Personally I would alwas stick with adv low and a proto dmg mod in my high. Noone really replied with a good use case so we will take these ideas, and your myofib ideas into consideration for future buffs, but nothing immediate. Thanks everyone. To be fair, nobody in eve use fitting mods either. The general rule is that if you need to use a fitting mod, you did something wrong in your fit or you need to improve your fitting skills. You can always find something more useful than a fitting mod Sure they do. I have two Large Ancillary Current Routers on my Domi. Whether or not that means I should do something else that doesn't require them isn't really relevant, because that is my go-to fit, not a throw-away fit that I use in highly situational scenarios. Comparing DUST mods to Eve is problematic because mid-slots and rigs. those rigs and rigs arent modules. i said nobody use fitting modules. rigs are different, and are regularly used to squeeze on better mods. in dust, we dont have rigs. then again, neither did eve online when it first came out. thats a good question to ask those guys. Before rigs were released, were the fitting mods used more often?

CommanderBolt ACME SPECIAL FORCES RISE of LEGION 1358	Posted - 2014.07.18 20:53:00 - [111] - Quote emm kay wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Lies. Every seasoned python pilot uses one on every fit (s)he has. in the dropsuit terms- buff shield tanking, but also increade the PG cost. some sample numbers to play around with would be 60/80/120 for extenders shield extenders should also take less time to start to recharge, but recharge less HP/ cycle. make other shield modules useful! the only reason the aren't on the bottom is because they're used on MLT fits. nerf armor tanking (plates) by ~3% amarr heavies w/ 1200 HP are insane. nerf. nerf now. Yep totally right about that one low slot on my Python. -=#[ Gastun's Forge ]#=- MY LIFE FOR AIUR! "I'm wasting away here" - "Get me back into zee fight!
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15964	Posted - 2014.07.18 20:58:00 - [112] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Has anyone considered moving cpu mods to high slot instead? shield tanks are meant to be cpu heavy, and armor tanks are pg heavy. either give both the mod they need in their off slot, or give neither of them it. Also, PDU's from eve would be nice (less pg, but small shield bonuses). the one thing everyone here agrees is something needs to move up, and some of these mods need less pg usage. high slot utility mods: damage precision low slot utility: pg and cpu profile range speed and stamina hacking It seems to me that the only way for it to be useful, even in high, is to cram in another proto rep or plate. Personally I would alwas stick with adv low and a proto dmg mod in my high. Noone really replied with a good use case so we will take these ideas, and your myofib ideas into consideration for future buffs, but nothing immediate. Thanks everyone. To be fair, nobody in eve use fitting mods either. The general rule is that if you need to use a fitting mod, you did something wrong in your fit or you need to improve your fitting skills. You can always find something more useful than a fitting mod ^^^^This CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15964	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:01:00 - [113] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: IAmDuncanIdaho II wrote: DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Floyd20 Azizora wrote: Has anyone considered moving cpu mods to high slot instead? shield tanks are meant to be cpu heavy, and armor tanks are pg heavy. either give both the mod they need in their off slot, or give neither of them it. Also, PDU's from eve would be nice (less pg, but small shield bonuses). the one thing everyone here agrees is something needs to move up, and some of these mods need less pg usage. high slot utility mods: damage precision low slot utility: pg and cpu profile range speed and stamina hacking It seems to me that the only way for it to be useful, even in high, is to cram in another proto rep or plate. Personally I would alwas stick with adv low and a proto dmg mod in my high. Noone really replied with a good use case so we will take these ideas, and your myofib ideas into consideration for future buffs, but nothing immediate. Thanks everyone. To be fair, nobody in eve use fitting mods either. The general rule is that if you need to use a fitting mod, you did something wrong in your fit or you need to improve your fitting skills. You can always find something more useful than a fitting mod Sure they do. I have two Large Ancillary Current Routers on my Domi. Whether or not that means I should do something else that doesn't require them isn't really relevant, because that is my go-to fit, not a throw-away fit that I use in highly situational scenarios. Comparing DUST mods to Eve is problematic because mid-slots and rigs. those rigs and rigs arent modules. i said nobody use fitting modules. rigs are different, and are regularly used to squeeze on better mods. in dust, we dont have rigs. then again, neither did eve online when it first came out. thats a good question to ask those guys. Before rigs were released, were the fitting mods used more often? No they were not usually unless it's one of those stupidly weird edge cases for a type of performance that usually got nerfed like a Micro Reactors which gave raw grid + instead of % in which those modules are more useful on ships with poor pg to start with. Another example of a weird case? using the said fitting modules to fit a module for a ship size above yours. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Minmatar Sentinel =// Unlocked
buzzzzzzz killllllllll Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers IMMORTAL REGIME 600	Posted - 2014.07.18 21:39:00 - [114] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... hey dont insult my myofibs! my min scout alt has proto biotics and myofibs and punches the **** out of brick tank scouts
IAmDuncanIdaho II R 0 N 1 N 609	Posted - 2014.07.18 22:15:00 - [115] - Quote buzzzzzzz killllllllll wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... hey dont insult my myofibs! my min scout alt has proto biotics and myofibs and punches the ** out of brick tank scouts Hey what's the animation like for punching the ** out of a merc with a drop uplink? The way your merc carries those things, it's like they're ready to blap someone over the head with it. You must learn honor, or you deserve to learn nothing at all. ~ Rivvy Dinari - Swordmaster of Ginaz
Gemini Cuspid 115	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:13:00 - [116] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... There's a difference; stimulants are popular for people grouping with a tank or still going for the stealth kills with nova knives where as any PG fit is a deterrent to use; requires too useful a slot and its not like shield tanking is popular either. Basically any smart player is asking why should they use it when it cost CPU that has a bigger impact on the main wpn you use and armor you equip.
Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2327	Posted - 2014.07.18 23:16:00 - [117] - Quote Unused mod seeks meaningful relationship with charitable clone. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. Beh!
emm kay New Age Empire. General Tso's Alliance 133	Posted - 2014.07.19 02:12:00 - [118] - Quote Atiim wrote: emm kay wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Lies. Every seasoned python pilot uses one on every fit (s)he has. That's not saying much considering how there aren't that many ADS pilots. Though I'm sure he's referring to Infantry PG Upgrades. scroll a wee bit more, my friend. :) -- You called, sir?
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 2252	Posted - 2014.07.19 02:20:00 - [119] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. In original concept that was breifly explained by the former CCP Jian then massive further assumption on my part... there was supposed to be a built in balance mechanic to stop "Dual tanking" Shields where supposed to be Primarily CPU based in the requirements needing to fit it. And naturally the more shield favoring races would have bonuses to CPU capacity and very limited Power grid. Where Armor was supposed to be Primarily a Powergrid requirement module. And then armor suits would naturally have signifcantly higher PG and limited CPU. Both suits would then need to sacrifice, for example shield suits would have to sacrifice a shield slot(Highslot) to fit a Powergrid module to then fit PG intensive modules.. Sacrificing your specialized race bonuses for a sandbox fit that may be better suited in certain circumstances. Where Armor suits if they needed extra CPU, would then have to fit a CPU module in low slot and sacrifice their Tank, for shield or CPU intensive modules. Between this and the original concepts of "Meta" there was supposed to be a Synergy created with auto balancing the suits.
Cat Merc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 11137	Posted - 2014.07.19 11:11:00 - [120] - Quote Bethhy wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. In original concept that was breifly explained by the former CCP Jian then massive further assumption on my part... there was supposed to be a built in balance mechanic to stop "Dual tanking" Shields where supposed to be Primarily CPU based in the requirements needing to fit it. And naturally the more shield favoring races would have bonuses to CPU capacity and very limited Power grid. Where Armor was supposed to be Primarily a Powergrid requirement module. And then armor suits would naturally have signifcantly higher PG and limited CPU. Both suits would then need to sacrifice, for example; shield suits would have to sacrifice a shield slot(Highslot) to fit a Powergrid module to then fit PG intensive modules.. Sacrificing your specialized race bonuses for a sandbox fit that may be better suited in certain circumstances. Where Armor suits if they needed extra CPU, would then have to fit a CPU module in low slot and sacrifice their Tank, for shield or CPU intensive modules. Between this and the original concepts of "Meta" there was supposed to be a Synergy created with auto balancing the suits. Problem is, with all the power creep we got, what was considered "Low PG" or "Low CPU" from back then has a complete different meaning now. Feline overlord of all humans - CAT MERC

The True Inferno Myrmidon Syndicate 23	Posted - 2014.07.19 12:22:00 - [121] - Quote Haerr wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... How about 2,3,4% bonus to movement speed? How bout a bonus to jump height, you are gaining strength through these modules after all. Though I see, with this change, heavies will be finally able to jum. Oh god! the horror! ScP = GÖÑ Resent fat scout (sentinel w/shotty and cin-cats)
PLAYSTTION GamersForChrist 195	Posted - 2014.07.19 14:52:00 - [122] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Please speak your mind about it, I am particularly interested in players who actually use it, and for what purpose. What kind of fitting can be made better with a PG upgrade? My personal experience is usually, "hmm, I need PG to pack stuff into my low slots, then I don't have the slots anymore because the rest of my lows are proto anyway". How can they be of use in the current environment? Give way more PG, be high slot, cost no CPU? Feel free to brainstorm. I always thought they should be a high slot because the make more room for low slot modules the same way that CPU mods make space for high slot modes and use up a low slot. Thats why I've never used them, i needed all the lows for reps and plates on my gallante suits 44/4 in a BPO Scout (1.8) 40/5 in a Proto Assault (1.7) Open Beta Vet 26mil sp R.I.P Dust 514
Nirwanda Vaughns 426th Infantry 649	Posted - 2014.07.19 18:19:00 - [123] - Quote it seems to be Caldari users who require PG upgrades, whenever i hear a caldari whine about not enough PG i always think... PG upgrade mod. how about keeping them as lowslots but changign them to act similar to the Power Diagnostic System mods in EVE which give small increase to PG as well as shield regen and hp. maybe have it at 3% STD 4% ADV 5% PRO or 4, 5, 6 with a stacking penalty? that way shield users get the pg boost they need, albeit a smaller one, but in turn it then helps thier shields out a bit too and helps make the shield tanks a bit more viable over armor as well Rolling with the punches
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 357	Posted - 2014.07.19 19:00:00 - [124] - Quote DeathwindRising wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... you could fix those by adding movement speed bonus. so that a full biotic fit is possible using kincats, card regs, and the stims to become faster, stronger, longer lasting... The latest Cialis commercial... Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel.
Guiltless D667 55	Posted - 2014.07.19 19:22:00 - [125] - Quote The only time i ever used them was on a Minlogi to get some extra PG to fit 3x proto hives on a ADV suit,I still have that fit to this day. A Strange Game.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender RISE of LEGION 124	Posted - 2014.07.19 20:56:00 - [126] - Quote The True Inferno wrote: Haerr wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Atiim wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: As must be very well known, the singularly least used module in all of the DUST 514 economy is the PG Upgrade. Even less than Myrofibril Stimulants? They are similarly terrible . We are trying to figure out a way to make those poor suckers useful as well... How about 2,3,4% bonus to movement speed? How bout a bonus to jump height, you are gaining strength through these modules after all. Though I see, with this change, heavies will be finally able to jum. Oh god! the horror! if they ever introduce the ability to climb over objects, a nice bonus to Myrofibril stimulants could be faster climbing speed, along with jumping, and melee. Currently we don't have many reasons to jump/climb over objects, other than the cursed railing for heavies and commandoes, but if a more urban or indoor map was introduced, we would have plenty of objects to take cover and vault over. My apologies if I come off as an elitist, but I try to view things objectively, logically, and factually.
Will Driver Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 148	Posted - 2014.07.19 21:26:00 - [127] - Quote I have one fit that uses a PG upgrade, but I really don't use it. I thought it would be fun to experiment with it my I never seem to. Anyway, it is: Neo Commando mk.0 Militia shotgun RS-90 combat rifle Cloak field Enhanced Light damage modifier Complex shield extender Complex PG upgrade Enhanced kinetic catalyzer It has 448 shield and 325 armor. Sort of like Scouts, only slower ;) The main reason why I don't use PG upgrades in my other suits is that it takes away a valuable slot for armor, speed, or endurance, and is therefore not worth the trade-offs. GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥ GÇò Albert Einstein
Celus Ivara DUST University Ivy League 229	Posted - 2014.07.21 13:12:00 - [128] - Quote Something I've thought for a year now: Why not make Fitting modules able to fit into either High or Low? The main balancing factor in Fitting mods is that to get that additional CPU/PG you have to burn a slot. That's a pretty massive cost in-and-of itself; I'm not sure why we're holding to keeping them in the Lows other than "EVE does it". If we (technical reasons) can't or (design reasons) won't make Fitting mods "slot-flexable", then I'd like to at least echo the suggestion others have put forward about pushing the PG mods to the High slots. This would position the PG mods to be able to serve their main contingent, Armor tankers. Additionally, it would help the smaller but equally PG hungry role of Speed 'links. KinCats and Uplinks are both very PG hungry. I can attest to, having run primarily this role since Uprising, that across the entire Std/Adv/Prto spectrum of this role, you consistently run out of PG far before CPU; and with KinCats and a necessary Cardiac Regulator taking up your Lows, you can never justify sac'ing a Low to the PG mod. Incidentally, the usual way to fix this is to have trash shields and only a single Sidearm for a weapon. I guarantee there is a market for a High slot fittable PG mod. Supporting Kevall Longstride, CEO of DUST University, for CPM1


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