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Matchmaking by cumulative KDR/WPDR

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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 7 post(s)
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 318	Posted - 2014.06.30 08:27:00 - [61] - Quote Perfect matchmaking is ilusion. Nosum Hseebnrido
iKILLu osborne Hellstorm Inc League of Infamy 45	Posted - 2014.06.30 09:17:00 - [62] - Quote i've seen alot of people posting in this thread that gallente is the dominant faction(lol) so i would like to gently remind everybody of why that is so. Z platoon retired because of the mass suicide that was organised (those who did it know of what i speak) that resulted in us losing all the factional space we had gained and the annoucement of legion(bye-bye dust) if it was not from that you gallente scum would still be flooding our mailbox with hate(yes extreme prejudice). our sole mission was the retaking of caldari prime and we still plan on fulfilling that mission I have spoke with Z-13 and he said to start warming the orbital lasers. hey you liar! i didn't sneak up on you, i was following you for 5 minutes , waiting for you to hack that cru for a camp
The Lion ElJonson 1st Legion The Dark Angels 64	Posted - 2014.06.30 10:43:00 - [63] - Quote Why not restrict pub matchs to 3 classes? Milita and low equip, medium, and proto, if you have 1 proto mod equip ped you can assess the lower battles if you know what i mean Millions of isks worth of ships in space yet theres nothing quite like a face to face
Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2189	Posted - 2014.06.30 18:30:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It saddens me to know that better matchmaking would have helped the game and its new player retention a long time ago. I can tell you though that we are hopefully making some progress on matchmaking, and specifically team making, based on cumulative WP/battlesecond, cumulative KDR is not as good because of snipers, but I hadn't thought of WP/D. We will take a look at how that compares to our other data and calculate the correlation to W/L ratio and see how it performs. This is independent work from hotfixes and will be deployed when ready. Matchmaking like this is of course only in random matches, not PC. If sniping is that much more lethal by nature, then kdr mm would correct that. It might mean that career snipers will have to participate in matches where the nature of the match no longer feeds their kdr and they will have to diversify and... adapt... to the changing play field. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3594	Posted - 2014.06.30 23:06:00 - [65] - Quote Onesimus Tarsus wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It saddens me to know that better matchmaking would have helped the game and its new player retention a long time ago. I can tell you though that we are hopefully making some progress on matchmaking, and specifically team making, based on cumulative WP/battlesecond, cumulative KDR is not as good because of snipers, but I hadn't thought of WP/D. We will take a look at how that compares to our other data and calculate the correlation to W/L ratio and see how it performs. This is independent work from hotfixes and will be deployed when ready. Matchmaking like this is of course only in random matches, not PC. If sniping is that much more lethal by nature, then kdr mm would correct that. It might mean that career snipers will have to participate in matches where the nature of the match no longer feeds their kdr and they will have to diversify and... adapt... to the changing play field. gasp (The godfather of tactical logistics)

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 3473	Posted - 2014.07.01 11:39:00 - [66] - Quote The-Errorist wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It saddens me to know that better matchmaking would have helped the game and its new player retention a long time ago. I can tell you though that we are hopefully making some progress on matchmaking, and specifically team making, based on cumulative WP/battlesecond, cumulative KDR is not as good because of snipers, but I hadn't thought of WP/D. We will take a look at how that compares to our other data and calculate the correlation to W/L ratio and see how it performs. This is independent work from hotfixes and will be deployed when ready. Matchmaking like this is of course only in random matches, not PC. Some time ago, I made a formula that could be used for matchmaking. What do you think of it? I also made a spreadsheet with lots of example and I have a history of revisions I made in other tabs. VR1 is for vehicles and R1 is the current iteration of the formula. I read your work and thread. We will look at it in reference when we continue our work on improving matchmaking. Thanks! "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Senator Snipe Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 152	Posted - 2014.07.01 11:42:00 - [67] - Quote + 1. Ambush would be more fun. I can just see it :) My forge skills are unmatchable
Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2202	Posted - 2014.07.01 12:46:00 - [68] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: Perfect matchmaking is ilusion. So is the perfect trip to the grocery store. Let's stop eating. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. Seriously. Think about it.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1187	Posted - 2014.07.01 13:44:00 - [69] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: Jaysyn Larrisen wrote: Stuff that doesn't actually apply to what I said. It would appear that you missed my earlier post where I said I don't want this type of system for FW either, I want team deploy. The post of mine that you quoted applies only to pubs. Ha! I answered them in order of appearance - sorry. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
bogeyman m Minmatar Republic 291	Posted - 2014.07.01 16:17:00 - [70] - Quote SponkSponkSponk wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Making changes/additions to FW is one thing, I am asking why we should not make the FW sides as equal as possible? You should, but bear in mind that you'll be hampered by 1. Generally-lower player population for reasons explained previously 2. Much more incentive to, and success with, team stacking (via multiple squads from the same corp/alliance/whatever) I've said before, but lowering the max squad size will generally make matchmaking more fair, because it keeps synergistic effects manageable and reduces the ability for one or two good players to carry an entire squad (or indeed, team). - add matchmaking - require squads (no solos) - make squad size 4 - add minimum SP requirement Duct tape 2.0 ... Have WD-40; will travel. Cross Atu for CPM1

Atiim Fooly Cooly. 10093	Posted - 2014.07.01 17:22:00 - [71] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Lack of people is due to lack of isk, the moment you throw in good isk rewards and a FW event it will spring right back I'm sure increasing the LP payouts would be best. Taking Care of The Pilot Infestation in North American Skirmish -HAND
Nevyn Tazinas Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 34	Posted - 2014.07.01 19:32:00 - [72] - Quote Ability to 'random squad' would also be a huge boon to matches I feel. If there are part squads in the match, Squad Leader can set 'Accept Randoms for Match' or not as he wants. These players would only be in the squad for the one match, not permanently. Any left over after part squads are filled would be put into a totally random squad with a random player as lead. It's not going to go up against fully organised squads like this, but it would mean something. And would mean you don't have to go organising a full squad before hand, and you can meet new people Squads dropping to 4 players would also make this 4 squads a side if pure randoms/already full squads, which makes for a better split between objectives. 6 is often stacking a bit heavy in one spot for skirmish maps.
Ares 514 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 945	Posted - 2014.07.01 19:35:00 - [73] - Quote Reducing squad size is a horrible idea. Many still play this game only to play with their friends. Reducing the number of friends they can play with and going backwards in time is not the way to fix matchmaking. Overlord of Broman
Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2224	Posted - 2014.07.02 15:33:00 - [74] - Quote The problem is that all other fixes are artificial balances. kmm (I've finally decided to shorten it to that) is a real balance. If followed, every aspect of the game self-balances. Why? Because the game is kdr. You can argue that some meta game exists, and that might require some meta fix, but the game is kdr. Match make by that, and watch as everything fixes itself automatically. The problem is, and I know I'm repeating ad nauseam, people want no-challenge stomps more than life itself around here. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. Seriously. Think about it.
Seymour KrelbornX Holdfast Syndicate Amarr Empire 255	Posted - 2014.07.02 20:37:00 - [75] - Quote shaman oga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Expand on FW please, why not, post the players faction choice. The problem in FW is there is almost no one playing it, 90% of time i try to queue for a match i get 00:00. People would be more attracted by FW with: Complete LP store Possibility to sell back unused items (to the market for their value) Separate class skill from racial skill (assault, logi, scout) give us isk in FW and I'll play it... don't see why mercs cant make isk for it but eve pilots can... makes no sense and makes FW useless to me.
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 2246	Posted - 2014.07.02 20:49:00 - [76] - Quote Seymour KrelbornX wrote: shaman oga wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: Expand on FW please, why not, post the players faction choice. The problem in FW is there is almost no one playing it, 90% of time i try to queue for a match i get 00:00. People would be more attracted by FW with: Complete LP store Possibility to sell back unused items (to the market for their value) Separate class skill from racial skill (assault, logi, scout) give us isk in FW and I'll play it... don't see why mercs cant make isk for it but eve pilots can... makes no sense and makes FW useless to me. It goes back to their intention that the weapon salvage could be used to get isk in a market place. Now that the market place will no longer be coming to Dust, it seems obvious they should reinstate isk rewards. This is how a minja feels
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 11	Posted - 2014.07.02 23:43:00 - [77] - Quote Why dont we move Scotty the matchmaking ai to "instant battle" and restore the battle finder. Use matchmaking for randoms andpull queue synching players to the planet of their choice with ambush and oms in separate queues?
Greiv Rabbah KiLo. 11	Posted - 2014.07.03 12:44:00 - [78] - Quote John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Lack of people is due to lack of isk, the moment you throw in good isk rewards and a FW event it will spring right back Making changes/additions to FW is one thing, I am asking why we should not make the FW sides as equal as possible? If you gave us team deploy, no problem. Why? Reason 1: Friendly fire! I do not want to be forced to squad up with any more randoms than absolutely necessary in a game mode where they can kill me and I can't do anything about it unless I want to waste the week or so of effort it takes to regain the standings loss from a TK ban. Reason 2, 3 and 4: See reason 1. Reason 5: FW is supposed to be competitive, right? A middle ground between pubs and PC? So it shouldn't necessarily be treated the same way as pubs. As a competitive outlet, we should be able to q-sync in large groups to do our thing. Matchmaking would thwart that in the absence of a team deploy option. This is wrong. Factional is more advanced gameplay yes. If you're too green or carebeary to step into low sec that should be as much your choice as it is in eve, but queue synching isn't a problem. Grinding isk with friends isn't a problem. Running with squads of ppl you know instead of struggling against a squad of blueberries isn't a problem. What is a problem is battle finder was replaced with Scotty and now all we have are either FW that's never active and random pubs. Random pubs handled by a matchmaking AI that nobody EVER liked. Factional should be more organized competitive play, where you ideally know your own team, but if you spot a battle going on at a certain planet between two NPC megacorps in your battle finder you SHOULD be able to sign up to battle there. Your friends squads should too if there's room. Random pubs belong in an "instant battle" tab in our neocom, not taking over our "battle finder"
Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2361	Posted - 2014.07.25 11:17:00 - [79] - Quote Oh, and CCP, this style of matchmaking also generates the most money in aurum sales and it eats up gear the fastest. K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. Beh!

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4797	Posted - 2014.07.25 12:40:00 - [80] - Quote Preaching to the choir my man. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"


Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3962	Posted - 2014.07.25 16:04:00 - [81] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It saddens me to know that better matchmaking would have helped the game and its new player retention a long time ago. I can tell you though that we are hopefully making some progress on matchmaking, and specifically team making, based on cumulative WP/battlesecond, cumulative KDR is not as good because of snipers, but I hadn't thought of WP/D. We will take a look at how that compares to our other data and calculate the correlation to W/L ratio and see how it performs. This is independent work from hotfixes and will be deployed when ready. Matchmaking like this is of course only in random matches, not PC. Logi will have substantially higher WP/Battlesecond than Sentinels (probably by a factor of 4x). WP/Death would be a little closer because Sentinels probably die less than Logi, but Logi are still likely to have a high WP/Death score than an equally skilled Sentinel. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4817	Posted - 2014.07.25 16:51:00 - [82] - Quote Fox Gaden wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It saddens me to know that better matchmaking would have helped the game and its new player retention a long time ago. I can tell you though that we are hopefully making some progress on matchmaking, and specifically team making, based on cumulative WP/battlesecond, cumulative KDR is not as good because of snipers, but I hadn't thought of WP/D. We will take a look at how that compares to our other data and calculate the correlation to W/L ratio and see how it performs. This is independent work from hotfixes and will be deployed when ready. Matchmaking like this is of course only in random matches, not PC. Logi will have substantially higher WP/Battlesecond than Sentinels (probably by a factor of 4x). WP/Death would be a little closer because Sentinels probably die less than Logi, but Logi are still likely to have a high WP/Death score than an equally skilled Sentinel. If you remember, we also track the players MU, basically ELO rankings, that is purely based on W/L ratios. The theory would be as KDR/WP matchmaking convergers, and players start playing other "equals", then MU steps in, so high MU sentinels can fight high MU logis, if there efforts contribute to the teams winning or losing. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

TYCHUS MAXWELL The Fun Police 247	Posted - 2014.07.25 16:54:00 - [83] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: It saddens me to know that better matchmaking would have helped the game and its new player retention a long time ago. I can tell you though that we are hopefully making some progress on matchmaking, and specifically team making, based on cumulative WP/battlesecond, cumulative KDR is not as good because of snipers, but I hadn't thought of WP/D. We will take a look at how that compares to our other data and calculate the correlation to W/L ratio and see how it performs. This is independent work from hotfixes and will be deployed when ready. Matchmaking like this is of course only in random matches, not PC. As people have hinted at in this thread it wasn't like people weren't screaming it at least since uprising (Wasn't here for Beta.) Like a lot of the problems though the devs before you buried their heads in the sand and addressed it too late. We had a matchmaking system for a while but the couple minute wait times on an already thinning community led to it being removed again. That's probably why they threw you into the mix now after running away to work on Legion. They horribly mishandled the mechanics of a fps trying to treat it like they would Eve and ignored the community feedback on why newcomers didn't want to stick around and reviewers just went meh. I'd love to see a matchmaking update but to be realistic unless you guys have more numbers on a growing player base or greater coding skills then the last guys, it's just going to lead back to the long matchmaking timers that everyone will hate and demand the removal of matchmaking again. I say greater coding skills but I of course have no idea how matchmaking was supposedly implemented the first time around. And in this case, all this may be patronizing as you probably do know what the past devs did, but in the case that the other devs didn't make that clear, here you go lol.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3963	Posted - 2014.07.25 17:01:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Fox Gaden wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: It saddens me to know that better matchmaking would have helped the game and its new player retention a long time ago. I can tell you though that we are hopefully making some progress on matchmaking, and specifically team making, based on cumulative WP/battlesecond, cumulative KDR is not as good because of snipers, but I hadn't thought of WP/D. We will take a look at how that compares to our other data and calculate the correlation to W/L ratio and see how it performs. This is independent work from hotfixes and will be deployed when ready. Matchmaking like this is of course only in random matches, not PC. Logi will have substantially higher WP/Battlesecond than Sentinels (probably by a factor of 4x). WP/Death would be a little closer because Sentinels probably die less than Logi, but Logi are still likely to have a high WP/Death score than an equally skilled Sentinel. If you remember, we also track the players MU, basically ELO rankings, that is purely based on W/L ratios. The theory would be as KDR/WP matchmaking convergers, and players start playing other "equals", then MU steps in, so high MU sentinels can fight high MU logis, if there efforts contribute to the teams winning or losing. So you have already accounted for the WP discrepancy. What does MU and ELO stand for in this context? I may not have been following the balance discussions closely enough. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.

CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 4818	Posted - 2014.07.25 17:24:00 - [85] - Quote http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2361	Posted - 2014.07.25 18:57:00 - [86] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system A bit complicated, considering that all you have to do is figure out to further decimal places in an ever-changing kdr stack and everything else will settle out on its own. Other than that, I suppose if it works... K/D(r) WP/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. Beh!
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 986	Posted - 2014.07.25 19:15:00 - [87] - Quote Ares 514 wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Lack of people is due to lack of isk, the moment you throw in good isk rewards and a FW event it will spring right back Making changes/additions to FW is one thing, I am asking why we should not make the FW sides as equal as possible? If you gave us team deploy, no problem. Why? Reason 1: Friendly fire! I do not want to be forced to squad up with any more randoms than absolutely necessary in a game mode where they can kill me and I can't do anything about it unless I want to waste the week or so of effort it takes to regain the standings loss from a TK ban. Reason 2, 3 and 4: See reason 1. Reason 5: FW is supposed to be competitive, right? A middle ground between pubs and PC? So it shouldn't necessarily be treated the same way as pubs. As a competitive outlet, we should be able to q-sync in large groups to do our thing. Matchmaking would thwart that in the absence of a team deploy option. Exactly. Do not prevent players from q-syncing FW. But isn't one of the main reasons there is a ten minute wait is because no one wants to play against this? The other issues are ISK and loyalty store being lopsided in value of items. Because, that's why.
John Demonsbane Unorganized Ninja Infantry Tactics League of Infamy 3829	Posted - 2014.07.25 19:35:00 - [88] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Ares 514 wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Lack of people is due to lack of isk, the moment you throw in good isk rewards and a FW event it will spring right back Making changes/additions to FW is one thing, I am asking why we should not make the FW sides as equal as possible? If you gave us team deploy, no problem. Why? Reason 1: Friendly fire! I do not want to be forced to squad up with any more randoms than absolutely necessary in a game mode where they can kill me and I can't do anything about it unless I want to waste the week or so of effort it takes to regain the standings loss from a TK ban. Reason 2, 3 and 4: See reason 1. Reason 5: FW is supposed to be competitive, right? A middle ground between pubs and PC? So it shouldn't necessarily be treated the same way as pubs. As a competitive outlet, we should be able to q-sync in large groups to do our thing. Matchmaking would thwart that in the absence of a team deploy option. Exactly. Do not prevent players from q-syncing FW. But isn't one of the main reasons there is a ten minute wait is because no one wants to play against this? The other issues are ISK and loyalty store being lopsided in value of items. I highly doubt that q-synching alone has anything to do with low FW participation, at least not in a way that would be substantially improved upon by matchmaking. The high risk low reward payout system is a far bigger issue. (The godfather of tactical logistics)
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3971	Posted - 2014.07.25 21:03:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elo_rating_system Thanks. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Onesimus Tarsus Company of Marcher Lords Amarr Empire 2362	Posted - 2014.07.25 21:06:00 - [90] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Ares 514 wrote: John Demonsbane wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: steadyhand amarr wrote: Lack of people is due to lack of isk, the moment you throw in good isk rewards and a FW event it will spring right back Making changes/additions to FW is one thing, I am asking why we should not make the FW sides as equal as possible? If you gave us team deploy, no problem. Why? Reason 1: Friendly fire! I do not want to be forced to squad up with any more randoms than absolutely necessary in a game mode where they can kill me and I can't do anything about it unless I want to waste the week or so of effort it takes to regain the standings loss from a TK ban. Reason 2, 3 and 4: See reason 1. Reason 5: FW is supposed to be competitive, right? A middle ground between pubs and PC? So it shouldn't necessarily be treated the same way as pubs. As a competitive outlet, we should be able to q-sync in large groups to do our thing. Matchmaking would thwart that in the absence of a team deploy option. Exactly. Do not prevent players from q-syncing FW. But isn't one of the main reasons there is a ten minute wait is because no one wants to play against this? The other issues are ISK and loyalty store being lopsided in value of items. q-synching: keeping the stomp alive. K/D(r) matchmaking fixes the whole game. Period. It even fixes WP/D(r). Beh!



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