Exactly. You think we we just AB away now, Soon As i see that first shot I will run. Not fight. YOu will get less battles between swarms and dropships. Swarmers may find they get less kills and more frustrating fights.

no one notices that swarms were doing 55% damage, likely before the fact it does 70% of that right? while i don't fly dropships,
220 *0.55=121*0.7=84.7 per missle to shields, and i believe i saw something about 120 damage needed to stop shield regen.
maybe CCP should show live test video of these new stats in action, see what happens?

LOL, 3 weeks compared to my 1+ year.. Ok Atiim.... I doubt you even fly. It's probably your once in a while thing pulling it out on clueless newberries just like how you used you're tank in 1.6. There is nothing to hid Atiim, we all know you're a scrub. BTW, do go watch Judges Videos.

Swarms does stop regen, these swarmers just don't know it.

Mind you that a good ADS costs 400k isk next patch, also mind you that you dont fking lock onto infantry with an ADS, Infantry can hide as well.

Alright, small update. I had a number wrong somewhere that made it seem like less damage. Chew on this instead

Base 75% efficiency for swarms meaning:

60% against shields
90% against armour

75% against thruster shields
112.5% against thruster armour

Note that this only affects swarms when shooting all dropships.

This might not be a permanent move, as I might later decide to increase DS HP: if that happens, they'll move to standard 80/120 levels.

Exactly. You think we we just AB away now, Soon As i see that first shot I will run. Not fight. YOu will get less battles between swarms and dropships. Swarmers may find they get less kills and more frustrating fights.

Alright, small update. I had a number wrong somewhere that made it seem like less damage. Chew on this instead

Base 75% efficiency for swarms meaning:

60% against shields
90% against armour

75% against thruster shields
112.5% against thruster armour

Note that this only affects swarms when shooting all dropships.

This might not be a permanent move, as I might later decide to increase DS HP: if that happens, they'll move to standard 80/120 levels.

I'm pretty sure that we can reduce that threshold from 102 to 80-75 or even lower safely (anything that isn't an AV weapon already has a really low multiplier so shouldn't interfere still). There's also a strange thing I've found with the resistances for dropships against swarms (the 55% efficiency people have mentioned), so fixing that might solve a lot of problems.

PG/CPU modifications are something we've considered, but that's a little beyond the scope of Bravo. Chances are we won't touch them this time around and leave them for another hotfix.

Swarm Range is the biggest thing I'll need feedback for, as it's hard to duplicate actual battlefield conditions with less people.

There is no damage nerf, prototype damage is the same and standard and advanced are higher. Swarms have the advantage in that they can lockon to their targets, which gives a much higher amount of accuracy.

You piloting a Python for a year doesn't change the fact that:

• Swarm Launchers don't completely flip Pythons over; making your statement a lie
• A Python has the ability to kill an AVer quickly; and these SL changes won't prevent that from happening.

The amount of time you've been piloting Pythons doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of of things you've recently posted in this discussion is drivel. Time Gëá Credibility.

Not actually sure what that has to do with anything really, but the fact that I've beaten and out-scored players who are better than you'll ever be, I'll take your statement about me being a scrub with a grain of salt.


Don't recally seeing a Swarm Launcher user say that they don'tt stop Shield Regen on a Python. Do you have a quote or may I place this statement in the trash pile with the rest of your fallacious drivel?

Point: A common complaint is that Dropships boost out of trouble and are hard to kill.
Counterpoint: Dropships have no other viable way of tanking damage, and are very easily killed if not incredibly careful.

We can change the assault swarm launcher to have fast, long range missiles so there is a way to chase dropships away, but pilots have also told us that sometimes infantry isn't rendered properly so they don't even appear to pilots before the missiles are hitting their dropship.

Please discuss, we want both sides to weigh in.

Correction, we can't fight back.
It's almost impossible already and because the python is weak you must run.

Uh. Complex plate on a Incubus makes it LITERALLY impossible to sway, unless you're hit directly in te engine by Railguns types, Swarms hav no ability for that.

The afterburner is a dropships countermeasure.
Against forge guns it allows us to change direction suddenly it orbit quickly throwing off his aim a bit, not always effective depending on the skill of the forge gunner but helps none the less. Against swarms it allows us to clear the lock range and potentially out run a volly if we can get the speed up in time. Doesn't always work but does get the ship out of lock range.

It is incredibly difficult to fight a forge gunner without an after burner, especially a good one. You can't maneuver fast enough to dodge his shots. With swarms you simply cannot dodge their missiles once locked, with out an afterburner you will get hit, unless you get lucky and it hits a part of a building but that's rare, especially with good swarmers.

It should be a well known fact at this point that infantry don't render well for dropships, as judge has shown in his videos dropship pilots are most of the time blind to threats around them. I fly with gunners and for what ever reason infantry render much better for them, so sometimes they tell me "hey I need you to get me higher" "red to our right 3 o'clock" etc etc because I can't see the target and they know so they give me the information I need to give them an angle.
Most of the times I've been killed by av was because of a milita swarm shooting at me, when I go to engage suddenly 1-2 forge guns fire from right next to the swarm and down me. No render just blue balls of death. This happens a lot with swarms too, the swarms hit from outside my fov, though I can't tell where because the hit marker tells me the opposite direction and the swarms don't render when I turn to see where they are coming from. My only option is to retreat rep my shields try and guess where they were, or I don't go back meaning the swarms have protected their area.

Personally I think one proto fit swarm should be a serious threat to my proto fit dropship, if I mess up he kills me, if I am smart and retreat using my countermeasure I keep my ship and limp back to a supply depo. A proto swarm and another swarm launcher working together with communication should be able to kill me, as I am also using teamwork with a gunner to kill them.

An important note for you Rattati, v/av balance is very delicate. I'm in favor of buffing swarms a little, maybe 80-100 DMG nothing too crazy because if a single swarm can shoot down a dropship then any av combination will easily down a dropship. Swarms are the easiest av, you don't have to aim as much as a forge or plc. Forge guns require skill and very good aim and battles against them are fun and challenging for both parties involved. Not saying swarms require no skill but they don't require as much as their counterparts.

The scariest aspect with buffing swarms in my mind is the forge swarm combo. Skilled av teams will gave the forge engage first and fight the dropship while the swarm holds fire, an assault dropship might be able to fight a single forge gunner but not a forge with swarm support. Ads shots will be too off target to effectively fight. Instead the swarm waits till the forge has damaged the dropship significantly and fires before he retreats catching the ads pilot off guard. These new assault swarms you've suggested sound perfect for that role and I'm all for a chase missile specifically for fighting dropships. However the damage has to be less than other swarms because they are effectively fighting my only defense against their weapon.

I hope you read all of this but TL:DR in case your busy.

Rendering is a serious issue for pilots that can be helped by having gunners assist in threat/target identification as they have better rendering.
Swarms are almost balanced but could use a little bit of a buff to their DMG to make them more of a viable threat to assault dropships. They should not be over buffed with added range or excessive DMG increase. If a single swarm can down a proto fit dropship with ease then any combination of av can easily down an assault dropship.
Changing the assault swarm to be a sort of anti dropship variant is a great idea so long as they trade anti afterburner hitting ability for DMG. This encourages teamwork.

Swarms don't always but they do sometimes, And sometimes they push hard into objects. If you flew a dropship everyday in 50-70% of your matches, you will see the flip over thinggy happen. There is some in Dust Fiends videos but I cannot be bother to find it for you. Time does = Credibility (not always but in somecases) because it means you have done and seen everything, I have seen RDV's hit me, swarms/ forges turn me upside down, railguns kill me in 2 seconds, MCC missiles hit me, Ramming, Stupid mechanics like Shield collison damage.


Let me remind you, the swarm is lock and fire= no skill, ADS - you have to manage everything, slightest things can kill you, (It's worth 500k isk), You have to fly, you have to actually Aim and try to terminate your target. A swarmer can very well fend me off even at militia level. They can hide behind objects, they can keep throwing off my aim and also they can take me out...


Atiim, you don't fly. I use proto swarms (actually no, they are pointless against armor vehicles) but they are well against shields and this buff will only throw off the balance.

The regen thing is addressed by CCP in this post.

Also, I would like to repeat myself in hopes that you understand: Swarm launcher- skill-less weapon,

I know you don't fly nor have you flown long enough to see the horror. So stop being biased.

Skill-less you say?

What about being a 900 HP unit who gets 2 shot by Xt's?

What about requiring prof AND reload AND ammo, simply to kill a double mlt rep Soma?

What about sometimes, even needing to combine the Swarms with Ac nades AND a remote? Surely sacrificing 3 of my potential weapons for self defense for anti Tank is 'skilled' in that i'm specializing much more than rven Snipers or Scouts?

What about the fact i need to 'swerve' my swarms whilst dodging Blaster fire while never takin my eyes off of him, and then staring at the sky to make sire they don't hit the grass?

What 'skill' do you need to kill me in a ADS? About a week's worth of practice figuring how to stay level and 'aim' that swervy PoS reticule. Surely the only thing you have to do is hit me 3 times, while i have to unload MULTIPLE clips at maxed skills SIMPLY to kill your Mlt Module at worst, Full Prototype at best, Incubus, which, UNTIL BRAVO, has had an innate near 50% resist to everything i shoot?

Surely you're being a Fotm scrub, relying on 43% resists and MWD mods to ensure you never die in your (isk isn't a balancing factor) 500k dropship?

Currently swarms lock the whole vehicle and can not be aimed at a weak spot on the vehicle, Will you make three aim spots on the dropship now?

Incubus is OP, IK but I fight for Pythons

What about railguns 2 hitting a 500k isk dropship
What about RDV's Magically appearing out of no where killing my 500k isk drophip
What about MCC missiles migically killing my 500k isk drophip
What about swarms shoving my Python into builidings
What about that one forgegunner or swarmer than can render me usless in a fight
What about the 2.6 million SP I spent to get Python to level 5
What about the 500 isk sp I spent to get just turret operation level 5 so I can use missiles
What about the 650k sp I spent to get prototype missiles
What about the 900k sp I spent in Engineering to get a complex PG upgrade
What about the 500k sp I spent getting the worthless small missile proficiency just so I can skill into optimization
What about the 500k sp I spent to get missiles optimization to level 4
What about the 500k sp I spent to get missiles reload to level 4
What about the 500k sp I spent to get the ammo
What about the 650k sp I spent into Shield modules so I can put on a complex heavy shield extender
What about the 900k sp on top of that to fit it
What about the 310k sp I spent to get ADV damage mods for my missiles
What about the 400k sp I spent on shield depleted recharge delay skill to get it to level 3
What about the countless hours I spent learning to fly and still get killing by stupid collision damage and swarms knocking me into buildings.
What about the countless times I have been drophip rammed
What about the countless times I have been killed in under two seconds to militia railgun tank in the redline.
What about the countless 500k isk pythons I lost.

What about it man?

You don't 'need' Xt-1's and Python 5 to kill me.

All that is necessary is the ADS skillbook, and maybe Fitting Op 2 on Armor/shields.

The rest is you simply 'becoming even better' at negating AV in its' entirety.

Yes your Python is 2 shot by rails, i'm 2 shot by Shotguns, and even Mlt Snipers.

Yes your python is knocked about senselessly by Swarmfire(python) but i'm a slow, weak, no grenade wielding Commando, which is 2 shot by even Mlt Missiles.

Yes, flying a ADS needs at minimum 1.6 mill Iskto get into, AND a week of flying to 'git gud', but my Swarms ARE NOT skill-less. Because it assists me in aiming does NOT mean i deserve to be relegated to Flaylock Status.

Because it 'locks' doesn't mean you should be immune.

Because it shoots multiple bullets at once doesn't mean you should be 100% capable to dodge them.

If you got hit by my swarms, it means i was waiting for you to be turned the other way, and still. In other words: you dun phucced up.

If you continue to hang about after hearin my first volley even go off, then you deserve to be hit by the first volley, and maybe even 2nd.

If you only move after being HIT, then you deserve to have 3 colleys in the air, chasing your slow-to-react ass. If you fail to dodge the right way, that's YOUR error, and deserve to be hit by my 4th, and killing, volley of swarms.

The success of my Av depends ENTIRELY on how arrogant you are, and involves much more than 'i shot you in back, therefor u iz ded'

My success depends on Psychological warfare, relying on giving you the impression of my being weak, and then SNAPPING right when you dive in to selfishly take those kills.

Your success depends on hitting R1 and aiming at the right Chevron.
Your non-death depends on you not Phuccing up, and flying near buildings when swarmers are present, or being greedy, those are YOUR phuccups, not CCP's.

An ally calling an lav in at their redline, and the RDV deciding it needs to come from the ENEMY mcc? Yeah, i understand that.

A enemy you're harassing calling in an Lav because he knows you won't see the RDV coming in, and will subsequently die? Once again. Your fault.

Again, it's your fault for sticking around building s and getting hit, that's a risk YOU were willing to take, and i used it to your loss.

Also, continue to splash kill me with impunity when i DON'T have Av, scrub.

We can do this all day in the Feedback thread, i don't mind being banned.

Touch+¬

However i'm almost always indoors.

Ahh, but you still go indoors, hence your dying to Mlt swarms VIA CRASHING!!!

Ha.

If by 'avoid' you mean using swarms, then 'i don't alwaus have them'(actually, i do. Because you guys plague every single match, and i get wonderful adrenaline by beating your entitled behinds into the ground, thus raising my payouts.)

If you meant 'dodge him' uhh.. Commando bro?

Also, anything LESS tanky than Comando is 1 shot, and lacks any relevant DPS or anti-air support weapons, so don't say 'bring other suits'

You don't need anything but a militia starter fit to kill me, just bump me in the wall like you scrubs always do.

You're success is solely based on lock and shoot. No skill other than hiding in a building right after you fire.

BTW- swarms chase for 400m (A-LOT) there is no way to avoid them to unless you run away and do the reversed loopty loop.

Also- MCC missiles, Jilhad dropships, broken shield collision, RDV's are mechanic problems and are broken therefore they are not my fault.


Anyway, no Python Pilot is stupid enough to just stand there and watch them selves burn. Pythons are Paper thin and any good pilot ditches right when they see the swarm. The Problem is with Incubus being able to take a million volleys.