DUST Search - [Feedback] Swarms and Dropships

Sir Dukey wrote:

Atiim wrote:

Sir Dukey wrote:

LOL, 3 weeks compared to my 1+ year.. Ok Atiim.... I doubt you even fly. It's probably your once in a while thing pulling it out on clueless newberries just like how you used you're tank in 1.6. There is nothing to hid Atiim, we all know you're a scrub. BTW, do go watch Judges Videos.

You piloting a Python for a year doesn't change the fact that:

Swarm Launchers don't completely flip Pythons over; making your statement a lie
A Python has the ability to kill an AVer quickly; and these SL changes won't prevent that from happening.

The amount of time you've been piloting Pythons doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of of things you've recently posted in this discussion is drivel. Time Gëá Credibility.

Not actually sure what that has to do with anything really, but the fact that I've beaten and out-scored players who are better than you'll ever be, I'll take your statement about me being a scrub with a grain of salt.

Sir Dukey wrote:

Swarms does stop regen, these swarmers just don't know it.

Don't recally seeing a Swarm Launcher user say that they don'tt stop Shield Regen on a Python. Do you have a quote or may I place this statement in the trash pile with the rest of your fallacious drivel?

Swarms don't always but they do sometimes, And sometimes they push hard into objects. If you flew a dropship everyday in 50-70% of your matches, you will see the flip over thinggy happen. There is some in Dust Fiends videos but I cannot be bother to find it for you. Time does = Credibility (not always but in somecases) because it means you have done and seen everything, I have seen RDV's hit me, swarms/ forges turn me upside down, railguns kill me in 2 seconds, MCC missiles hit me, Ramming, Stupid mechanics like Shield collison damage.

Let me remind you, the swarm is lock and fire= no skill, ADS - you have to manage everything, slightest things can kill you, (It's worth 500k isk), You have to fly, you have to actually Aim and try to terminate your target. A swarmer can very well fend me off even at militia level. They can hide behind objects, they can keep throwing off my aim and also they can take me out...

Atiim, you don't fly. I use proto swarms (actually no, they are pointless against armor vehicles) but they are well against shields and this buff will only throw off the balance.

The regen thing is addressed by CCP in this post.

Also, I would like to repeat myself in hopes that you understand: Swarm launcher- skill-less weapon,

I know you don't fly nor have you flown long enough to see the horror. So stop being biased.


Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 12 post(s)
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1742	Posted - 2014.06.10 21:37:00 - [1] - Quote I'm in favor of making Breach swarms fire straight (out of the gun before missile guidance happens) for longer than normals, as that allows me to fire around boxes easier wen a tank turns tail, also standard swarms lock fine ATM, just gets genuinely screwed over when it's laggy. Assault swarms could deal 200 damage(compared to Std 220), while breach deals 250, make Breaches have a 2 shot clip, and assaults- 4. Assaults could lock at 225meters(allowing easier harassment of Ads) while breach locks at 150(?) Also worth looking at, is a way to make Standard swarms more usable against militia tanks: We could possibly lower the HP and/or damage threshold, making it easier for swarms to stop regen, or make Mlt/basic swarms shoot 5 missiles, Adv/pro shooting 6, while Proto has a minute damage increase per missile(?) Anyways, what is needed is to make Mlt Av a reliable counter to Mlt tanks, whether that is all 6 volleys to kill a Mlt tank, or to bring a base Soma to 200 armor or so for it to die to Locus/Av nades. Proto swarms also need to become a serious threat to Adv module tanks, as currently with only lv3 repair efficacy i can use trippe enhanced reps to outrep Prototype non-minmando swarms. What would the chances be that ^^ could happen? Tldr: Mlt/basic swarms need to become closer in performance to Proto swarms, which needs to be addressed in a way other than 4-5-6 per volley. Proto swarms need to become (minorly) more powerful, as suggested by me in a small damage increase over Adv(going from 220 to 230 maybe?) Assault swarms would be welcome, as long as they deal less DPvolley and fly faster/lock at longer range. Breach Swarms would be a Minmatar Commando's best friend, being able to rely on a single weapon platform to deal with higher end tanks, as compared to the (now viable) Cbr7 scout with Packed Av nades. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1747	Posted - 2014.06.10 22:35:00 - [2] - Quote Brotherband wrote: Atiim wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: ok then.. if it's that hard to miss make it so you have to keep aim on target.. That would easily ruin Swarm Launcher vs LAV combat. I thing dumbfire would be the better idea; It's easily possible server side by taking the Mass Driver, removing the arc, increasing projectile speed, and then putting it under the Swarm Launcher model. Do you have any Idea what dumb fire warms would be like. Imagine a carpet bombing that never ended. The matches would be decided on how many swarm launchers and nano hives were at the highest point in the map. area denial ho 19 hp splash damage says otherwise. Seriously. As an addon: could we have it able to 'lock' at any point on the ground, and spray missiles at that locket point? Imagine waiting in ambush for a tank, and as he's about to turn, you lock the ground at the corner, hitting the tanker before he can see you: you have now made the strike before you've been seen, and it needs tactical foresight and skill. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1756	Posted - 2014.06.11 06:33:00 - [3] - Quote Against actually competent(or plated) dropships, swarms do NOT deteriorate the enemy's aiming ability. Also we need to remove the 55% resist on armor DS. As for Baal's idea, the only thing i don't like about differentiating Std to Pro swarms via Lock times is, you would end up having to relearn the weapon every time you switch from Adv to pro. I'm in favor for normalizing missile count though, along with maybe the clipsize increase by tier.(please don't pull a Flaylock, and give it varying amounts of Max Ammo per tier, just straight up double the ammo.) Still wanting Breach Swarms, which deal bonus Dmg per missile, but fly slower/track less. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1762	Posted - 2014.06.11 18:24:00 - [4] - Quote Logi i love you. I don't see any problems with the resist changes, as this puts Gallente on even grounds with Caldari. Funny thing worth noting: Caldari Dropships, when Shields are broken, take FULL damage from all light weapons, as demonstrated by me Thaling a python for my first Thale's kill ever. Also Pythons are killed woefully fast by Combat Rifles/Hmg's, along with even Shotgun Fire(lol @ that one) General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1764	Posted - 2014.06.11 21:20:00 - [5] - Quote duster 35000 wrote: Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: A few things. Ill chart it up tonight. Post tomorrow when I have the numbers. But in a nutshell these changes are based of the numbers, like damage and efficiency. They do not account for how the battle actually is. Hers iis just one example - impulse. Swarms knock us all over the place. Each missile hits 1 after the other and we cannot aim at the target. We can only shoot between volleys, and by adding more missiles we will likely have a tiny window to fight back. Correction, we can't fight back. It's almost impossible already and because the python is weak you must run. Uh. Complex plate on a Incubus makes it LITERALLY impossible to sway, unless you're hit directly in te engine by Railguns types, Swarms hav no ability for that. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1765	Posted - 2014.06.11 21:29:00 - [6] - Quote Sir Dukey wrote: Atiim wrote: Sir Dukey wrote: LOL, 3 weeks compared to my 1+ year.. Ok Atiim.... I doubt you even fly. It's probably your once in a while thing pulling it out on clueless newberries just like how you used you're tank in 1.6. There is nothing to hid Atiim, we all know you're a scrub. BTW, do go watch Judges Videos. You piloting a Python for a year doesn't change the fact that: Swarm Launchers don't completely flip Pythons over; making your statement a lie A Python has the ability to kill an AVer quickly; and these SL changes won't prevent that from happening. The amount of time you've been piloting Pythons doesn't change the fact that the vast majority of of things you've recently posted in this discussion is drivel. Time Gëá Credibility. Not actually sure what that has to do with anything really, but the fact that I've beaten and out-scored players who are better than you'll ever be, I'll take your statement about me being a scrub with a grain of salt. Sir Dukey wrote: Swarms does stop regen, these swarmers just don't know it. Don't recally seeing a Swarm Launcher user say that they don'tt stop Shield Regen on a Python. Do you have a quote or may I place this statement in the trash pile with the rest of your fallacious drivel? Swarms don't always but they do sometimes, And sometimes they push hard into objects. If you flew a dropship everyday in 50-70% of your matches, you will see the flip over thinggy happen. There is some in Dust Fiends videos but I cannot be bother to find it for you. Time does = Credibility (not always but in somecases) because it means you have done and seen everything, I have seen RDV's hit me, swarms/ forges turn me upside down, railguns kill me in 2 seconds, MCC missiles hit me, Ramming, Stupid mechanics like Shield collison damage. Let me remind you, the swarm is lock and fire= no skill, ADS - you have to manage everything, slightest things can kill you, (It's worth 500k isk), You have to fly, you have to actually Aim and try to terminate your target. A swarmer can very well fend me off even at militia level. They can hide behind objects, they can keep throwing off my aim and also they can take me out... Atiim, you don't fly. I use proto swarms (actually no, they are pointless against armor vehicles) but they are well against shields and this buff will only throw off the balance. The regen thing is addressed by CCP in this post. Also, I would like to repeat myself in hopes that you understand: Swarm launcher- skill-less weapon, I know you don't fly nor have you flown long enough to see the horror. So stop being biased. Skill-less you say? What about being a 900 HP unit who gets 2 shot by Xt's? What about requiring prof AND reload AND ammo, simply to kill a double mlt rep Soma? What about sometimes, even needing to combine the Swarms with Ac nades AND a remote? Surely sacrificing 3 of my potential weapons for self defense for anti Tank is 'skilled' in that i'm specializing much more than rven Snipers or Scouts? What about the fact i need to 'swerve' my swarms whilst dodging Blaster fire while never takin my eyes off of him, and then staring at the sky to make sire they don't hit the grass? What 'skill' do you need to kill me in a ADS? About a week's worth of practice figuring how to stay level and 'aim' that swervy PoS reticule. Surely the only thing you have to do is hit me 3 times, while i have to unload MULTIPLE clips at maxed skills SIMPLY to kill your Mlt Module at worst, Full Prototype at best, Incubus, which, UNTIL BRAVO, has had an innate near 50% resist to everything i shoot? Surely you're being a Fotm scrub, relying on 43% resists and MWD mods to ensure you never die in your (isk isn't a balancing factor) 500k dropship? General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1767	Posted - 2014.06.11 22:21:00 - [7] - Quote You don't 'need' Xt-1's and Python 5 to kill me. All that is necessary is the ADS skillbook, and maybe Fitting Op 2 on Armor/shields. The rest is you simply 'becoming even better' at negating AV in its' entirety. Yes your Python is 2 shot by rails, i'm 2 shot by Shotguns, and even Mlt Snipers. Yes your python is knocked about senselessly by Swarmfire(python) but i'm a slow, weak, no grenade wielding Commando, which is 2 shot by even Mlt Missiles. Yes, flying a ADS needs at minimum 1.6 mill Iskto get into, AND a week of flying to 'git gud', but my Swarms ARE NOT skill-less. Because it assists me in aiming does NOT mean i deserve to be relegated to Flaylock Status. Because it 'locks' doesn't mean you should be immune. Because it shoots multiple bullets at once doesn't mean you should be 100% capable to dodge them. If you got hit by my swarms, it means i was waiting for you to be turned the other way, and still. In other words: you dun phucced up. If you continue to hang about after hearin my first volley even go off, then you deserve to be hit by the first volley, and maybe even 2nd. If you only move after being HIT, then you deserve to have 3 colleys in the air, chasing your slow-to-react ass. If you fail to dodge the right way, that's YOUR error, and deserve to be hit by my 4th, and killing, volley of swarms. The success of my Av depends ENTIRELY on how arrogant you are, and involves much more than 'i shot you in back, therefor u iz ded' My success depends on Psychological warfare, relying on giving you the impression of my being weak, and then SNAPPING right when you dive in to selfishly take those kills. Your success depends on hitting R1 and aiming at the right Chevron. Your non-death depends on you not Phuccing up, and flying near buildings when swarmers are present, or being greedy, those are YOUR phuccups, not CCP's. An ally calling an lav in at their redline, and the RDV deciding it needs to come from the ENEMY mcc? Yeah, i understand that. A enemy you're harassing calling in an Lav because he knows you won't see the RDV coming in, and will subsequently die? Once again. Your fault. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1768	Posted - 2014.06.11 22:36:00 - [8] - Quote Again, it's your fault for sticking around building s and getting hit, that's a risk YOU were willing to take, and i used it to your loss. Also, continue to splash kill me with impunity when i DON'T have Av, scrub. We can do this all day in the Feedback thread, i don't mind being banned. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1769	Posted - 2014.06.11 22:56:00 - [9] - Quote Touch+¬ However i'm almost always indoors. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1769	Posted - 2014.06.11 23:01:00 - [10] - Quote Ahh, but you still go indoors, hence your dying to Mlt swarms VIA CRASHING!!! Ha. If by 'avoid' you mean using swarms, then 'i don't alwaus have them' If you meant 'dodge him' uhh.. Commando bro? Also, anything LESS tanky than Comando is 1 shot, and lacks any relevant DPS or anti-air support weapons, so don't say 'bring other suits' General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!

Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1771	Posted - 2014.06.12 00:54:00 - [11] - Quote Atiim wrote: duster 35000 wrote: Bring other suits So then you'll be okay with bringining another ADS, such as the Incubus in Hotfix Bravo? I'll take note of that. duster 35000 wrote: And your swarms are lockon, and the only safe place for a dropship is outside, but infantry can go outside without dying, yet a dropship can't go near any walls without a huge risk of losing 500k in 1 unskillful bump by a swarm. I've survived several "bumps" to the wall from a Swarm Launcher. Perhaps you should run try running HP modules and/or getting better at flying? Not to mention the fact that while the Python can strike at anytime without notice, there will always be audio and visual cues to tell the pilot where the SL user is, meaning that your hypothetical situation will never happen without the pilot being aware of it, which is an issue of -gross incompetence-. Add to that their 'growling' from the DS doesn't even have a direction, it's just applied locally to the listener. Yes, i understand you losing all of your HP to a wall, i lost an incubus(4300 armor) to a lightpole at 1.5MPH, so STFU about it bein Python specific. @ 'bring other suits' A sentinel is impossible to dodge with, while scouts/assaults are 1 shotted by all but Standard missiles, so no, i'm not goin to make your job MORE easy. Also Minmando grants a 36% DPS buff to swarms, which, without it, would mean i would either need: an additional swarmer to mimic a single Minmando, or have you be an idiot and fly within 20m of me so i can toss nades. Neither of those happens regularly, so i'm going to 3shot your entitled ass out of the sky(note: shield boosters automatically make it such that i need 4/5 volleys, meaning that i now need EVEN MORESO, the reload bonus of 25%, ontop of the 10% dmg bonus. Don't tell me how to do my job. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1771	Posted - 2014.06.12 01:01:00 - [12] - Quote Anyways, back to OP, dropships having innate resists means: instead of requiring 80 dmg, even a 25% resist to swarms means the ADS now requires 100 damage to drop(which is a considerable increase to Blaster falloff) shield regen, along with automatic 25% automatic faster armor repairs(imagine the 519 Reps Madrugar having AN ADDITIONAL 25% to top it) meaning Incubuses now rep at close to 200/230(compared to typical 145 or 160) and also take 25% reduced damage, so it's still unfair to any infantry AVer. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1771	Posted - 2014.06.12 01:12:00 - [13] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Lynn Beck wrote: Anyways, back to OP, dropships having innate resists means: instead of requiring 80 dmg, even a 25% resist to swarms means the ADS now requires 100 damage to drop(which is a considerable increase to Blaster falloff) shield regen, along with automatic 25% automatic faster armor repairs(imagine the 519 Reps Madrugar having AN ADDITIONAL 25% to top it) meaning Incubuses now rep at close to 200/230(compared to typical 145 or 160) and also take 25% reduced damage, so it's still unfair to any infantry AVer. Only applies to damage from swarms. All other damage sources apply damage at normal efficiency. Forge Guns (and swarms) will actually do more armour damage after the patch when we fix their prof skill bug. I'll be watching it closely, and if does seem too low, then I'll increase the effectiveness. A 65% increase in damage is a lot for one patch. True, looking forward to it. Also, apologies for the ranty page of 'my role has more skill than yours', i get a bit emotional when people try and pull a Flaylock on me. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1776	Posted - 2014.06.12 02:11:00 - [14] - Quote Does shield dropships have innate resistances as well? Because i find them easier to kill than tanks- especially considering Pythons. If this is specific to Armor Dropships, Why? Shouldn't that be what Armor hardeners are for? It makes no sense to me that, i i'm using my scoutsuit with Av nades(that actually managed to hit an Ads only repping at 100, using State St's) is inable to actually kill one, even when: 2 packed Av nades landed 6 Wyrrkomi Swarms hit, with Reload 3 He even hit a wall on the way out. General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!