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CCP Rattati C C P C C P Alliance 2233	Posted - 2014.06.09 06:56:00 - [1] - Quote This is sure to be a flammable topic. Here are a few of our reasons: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games 2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users 3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay 4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons. Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. "As well as stupid, Rattati is incredibly slow and accident-prone, and cannot even swim"

Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5995	Posted - 2014.06.09 07:14:00 - [2] - Quote This harkens back to the fact that Vehicles, without a clear cut role, are just better slayers. They essentially perform the same way as Infantry, only being immune to a large portion of the small arms in the game. Vehicles thrive in Ambush -because- there are no objectives. When the only thing you have to do is kill the enemy, it leads to power imbalances whenever a playstyle like tanks are implemented. By removing vehicles, it does certainly help the infantry a great deal but in the same sense, it also slaughters a lot of options for vehicle users who want to play a game-mode that utilizes what their specialization is all about: Makin' **** dead. I'm not necessarily for removing vehicles in Ambush because I think that it limits a player's playstyle and forces segregation artificially, but I can see the benefit of it being implemented. My considerations are that many of the maps, while not optimized for vehicle - Infantry play, aren't optimized for solely infantry play either. Many Ambush maps have -HUGE- stretches of space that have to be traveled just to get any sort of decent combat. Impact Ridge is especially bad about this. Ultimately, I don't think this is really going to make much adjustment to the game as a whole; it'll just force vehicle users to play in other game modes where the Vehicle vs AV balance will only rear it's ugly head even more as Skirmish/Domination still have higher vehicle caps. I think this proposal should wait until Hotfix Charlie so we have time to see the effects of changes made to that balance before we grab the cleaver and hack off a limb. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2014.06.09 07:40:00 - [3] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is sure to be a flammable topic. Here are a few of our reasons: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games 2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users 3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay 4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons. Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. Yes, remove vehickes or add a infantry only ambush, as ambush should be infantry oriented if people want, then some stat padders like cough duna cough Jerrmy12 Banned, reason, hotfix alpha thread. No joke, the reason was a devs first post, I was linked to the first post.
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1354	Posted - 2014.06.09 07:42:00 - [4] - Quote Agree with Aeon. Effectively excluding certain play stiles from a game mode doesn't sit well with me from a principal standpoint alone. Without vehicles, AV infantry has no reason to play ambush either, removing not one but two play stiles from ambush. The overall higher concentration of AV/Vehicle in Skirm/Dom can also have some stinging downsides such as pilots regularly getting their RDV requests denied (vehicle limit reached) wich constitutes a clear QoL loss for those affected. Dom/Skirm could also become more hostile to regular infantry because there's always someone just waiting for a friendly tanker to die so they can get their own tank out. You might end up switching the problem from one mode of another instead of fixing it i'm afraid. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
duster 35000 Algintal Core Gallente Federation 10	Posted - 2014.06.09 07:47:00 - [5] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Agree with Aeon. Effectively excluding certain play stiles from a game mode doesn't sit well with me from a principal standpoint alone. Without vehicles, AV infantry has no reason to play ambush either, removing not one but two play stiles from ambush. The overall higher concentration of AV/Vehicle in Skirm/Dom can also have some stinging downsides such as pilots regularly getting their RDV requests denied (vehicle limit reached) wich constitutes a clear QoL loss for those affected. Dom/Skirm could also become more hostile to regular infantry because there's always someone just waiting for a friendly tanker to die so they can get their own tank out. You might end up switching the problem from one mode of another instead of fixing it i'm afraid. Ambush oms no vehicles? Or just lavs in ambush. Jerrmy12 Banned, reason, hotfix alpha thread. No joke, the reason was a devs first post, I was linked to the first post.
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 821	Posted - 2014.06.09 08:01:00 - [6] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is sure to be a flammable topic. Here are a few of our reasons: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games 2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users 3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay 4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons. Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. Vehicles wouldn't be such a problem if maps weren't designed to favor long range engagements. And if players could choose their deployment location when using "smart deploy" instead of being dropped right infront of a blaster HAV multiple times.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 502	Posted - 2014.06.09 08:19:00 - [7] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is sure to be a flammable topic. Here are a few of our reasons: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games 2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users 3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay 4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons. Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. I agree. Remove them from Ambush, or give us another game mode, safe of vehicles, such as a FFA mode :P. Support Assault changes
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 257	Posted - 2014.06.09 08:34:00 - [8] - Quote have to have smaller maps or just the built up areas
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14411	Posted - 2014.06.09 08:35:00 - [9] - Quote Yes x 1000000000000000000000000000.7
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf Dominion of the Supreme Emperor God-King KAGEHOSHI 11044	Posted - 2014.06.09 08:45:00 - [10] - Quote I don't see why Ambush needs vehicles at all, they're a much better fit in Skirmish and Domination. There is no benefit to keeping them in Ambush, and there IS benefit to removing them. I won't complain if you keep them out of Ambush. Gû¦Supreme emperor god-kingpÇÉKAGEH¦PSHIpÇæ// Lord of threads // Forum altGû+

The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3210	Posted - 2014.06.09 08:51:00 - [11] - Quote I would say for balancing reasons you should splitt ambush OMS (80 clones) and regular ambush (50 clones). Allow vehicles in OMS and prohibit the usage of any vehicle in the regular variant. The reason behind this is that you can change out on supply depots for AV.
X7 lion Inner.Hell 209	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:00:00 - [12] - Quote maybe have a vechile hell mode, wehere you can only spawn in a tank or dropship maybe with a couple maps dedicated to tank game play and a couple to drop ships (with minor or specilized infantry gameplay) Hey look a distraction!
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2239	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:14:00 - [13] - Quote I agree with the title of the thread. But please, make combat area tinier, we can't run across the map to pick a fight. Honestly i would divide again ambush and ambush OMS, no vehicle in ambush, vehicle in OMS. PSN: ogamega Never f* with a Galdari.
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 596	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:15:00 - [14] - Quote *Remove vehicles from Ambush but NOT* Ambush OMS.** If it is only in OMS I would even be a fan of bumping the quota up to 3. Supply depots hold much more tactical significance when vehicles are involved. Without tanks to pop them most of the blueberries will spend half the match sitting in one of the turrets. Off Map Support really does not even make sense if it does not include RDVs dropping in vehicles. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4365	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:23:00 - [15] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: Agree with Aeon. Effectively excluding certain playstyles from a game mode doesn't sit well with me from a principal standpoint alone. Without vehicles, AV infantry has no reason to play ambush either, removing not one but two playstyles from ambush. The overall higher concentration of AV/Vehicle in Skirm/Dom can also have some stinging downsides such as pilots regularly getting their RDV requests denied (vehicle limit reached) wich constitutes a clear QoL loss for those affected. Dom/Skirm could also become more hostile to regular infantry because there's always someone just waiting for a friendly tanker to die so they can get their own tank out. You might end up switching the problem from one mode of another instead of fixing it i'm afraid. That's a bullshit reason. There is no dedicated av infantry. That's not a useful battlefield role. AV should never be a persons only dedicated role. It's an emergency role for when your tankers have screwed up. The only exception are forge gunners who have been set up on high ground with a bunch of nanohives, because they can effectively suppress infantry from there as well. A silly publing running around with a proto swarm launcher will never contribute as much as even a militia tanker. You shouldn't be encouraging idiots to run around doing that. Removing tanks and ADS from ambush is a great idea.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. 1595	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:23:00 - [16] - Quote Short response: Allowing hulking, neigh-unkillable death machines into a match where the only point of the match is to kill more than the other team ruins any balance there could be. If AV were capable of dealing with vehicles in a timely fashion it wouldn't be a big deal, but 30 seconds in-game is an eternity and it takes at least that long for 3 guys to drop a proper tanks health.... if they stick around long enough to let you do so since they can be on the other side of the map in 5 seconds. Bottom line, removing vehicles from ambush is a good move to make. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 Cross Atu for CPM1
Aeon Amadi Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 5999	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:24:00 - [17] - Quote I want to remind everyone that there's an inherent flaw as well with wanting vehicles removed from Ambush but not Ambush OMS.... You can't choose which one you jump into. If I'm an infantry guy who wants to play a game-mode without vehicles, it's not going to help anything leaving it up to chance - I'm likely to just leave the match and get frustrated that I have to wait in a que again (assuming I don't get thrown into the same match I just left). The thing about it guys, is that you have to consider this from both ends of the spectrum. Yes, vehicles are powerful and wanting them removed from Ambush is totally understandable but it's a DIRECT and CLEAR impact on another player's playstyle. If he spent all his SP into vehicles, than removing them from play is practically invalidating all of that SP investment. I'm not cool with that, at all. Useful Links Aeon Amadi for CPM1
Zatara Rought General Tso's Alliance 3360	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:30:00 - [18] - Quote I'm down with removing vehicles from ambush. I'm also a huge proponent of Dark Cloud's assertion to keep them in OMS because supply depots. Giving the option for OMS to continue vehicles vs regular ambush to have none is a suggestion that (for me) satisfies Aeon's concerns about doing 2 much 2 soon. My only issue with the idea of having vehicles in OMS is that supply depots are targeted immediately by vehicles for destruction, and once down it's **. The simple fact is 2 vehicle users in ambush will ** the other team due to the spawn system and the mechanics around getting your own vehicles in. (Trying to get a derp on the ground to get links on high ground to PREVENT getting raped by tanks on the ground just leads to frustration if the tanks are anywhere near competent) But I forsee for myself a huge interest in being able to decide between ambush and OMS if the difference if vehicles. I don't want to have to quit out of battles and re-search because I'm solo and I don't want to have to find a squad with the proper prerequisites that allows me to counter play the tanks of ambush. CEO of FA, Candidate for CPM1 Follow me on twitter Skype Zatara.Rought
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 596	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:30:00 - [19] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I want to remind everyone that there's an inherent flaw as well with wanting vehicles removed from Ambush but not Ambush OMS.... You can't choose which one you jump into. If I'm an infantry guy who wants to play a game-mode without vehicles, it's not going to help anything leaving it up to chance - I'm likely to just leave the match and get frustrated that I have to wait in a que again (assuming I don't get thrown into the same match I just left). The thing about it guys, is that you have to consider this from both ends of the spectrum. Yes, vehicles are powerful and wanting them removed from Ambush is totally understandable but it's a DIRECT and CLEAR impact on another player's playstyle. If he spent all his SP into vehicles, than removing them from play is practically invalidating all of that SP investment. I'm not cool with that, at all. I did consider this and almost said it in my post but remembered that would probably require a client update. My final thought on it was that it would likely drive the tank spammers into skirm or dom leaving the playstyle in OMS to casual tankers and LAVs making OMS not hugely different from regular ambush. If we remove vehicles from OMS then installations should go as well. Between people camping on installations and constant fighting over the installations it would really invalidate how ambush is suppose to work in my opinion. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Joseph Ridgeson warravens Final Resolution. 1979	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:49:00 - [20] - Quote I say yes, but allow LAV's. Some maps are stupidly large and being an out of position heavy is horrendously annoying. Even though it will segment the community even more so, it is worth it. "This is B.S! This is B.S! I paid money! Cash money, dollars money, cash money!"

Floyd20 Azizora L.O.T.I.S. 49	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:56:00 - [21] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is sure to be a flammable topic. Here are a few of our reasons: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games 2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users 3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay 4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons. Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. let standard ambush be vehicle free, and oms have current limits. let players choose which they want to play. maybe limit to 1 tank per side if possible.
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 596	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:57:00 - [22] - Quote Adding some maps where the redline basically restricts you to the large socket of the map and a small surrounding area to allow for flanking would be a good way to supplement this. I am only guessing that redlines and smart deploy points can be adjusted server side. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
DAMIOS82 warravens Final Resolution. 125	Posted - 2014.06.09 09:59:00 - [23] - Quote I say no, Ambush is about killing, not objectives and as a HAV driver i should be able to choose what to play. But i do understand it from the point of view of infantry. The problem lies in that the AV weapons need to be better balanced, not saying they should go back to there old level, but that is what takes the fun away, not whether there are vehicles. If AV weapons are at a level where they have effect, but are not 1 kill or overkill weapons. Then at one point or the other the vehicles would decrease a little bit or atleast you would have a way to fight back.
Sole Fenychs Sinq Laison Gendarmes Gallente Federation 491	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:09:00 - [24] - Quote I think it would be good to block LAVs from Ambush. This prevents blueberries from filling the two vehicle slots that could be filled by actual AV vehicles like tanks. Actually, would it be possible to make three Ambush game modes? OMS would be like it currently is. Vehicle and infantry combined, with infrastructure providing semi-objectives. The other two would be a pure infantry mode and a version of Ambush where weapons are locked for thirty seconds after the initial spawn, to make initial vehicle spawns possible. In that latter mode, vehicle limit is raised to six or more and it's explicitly titled as Tankbush. Basically, I want to have a pilot-based Ambush game mode introduced, where tanks are murdering each other. It would serve an additional function of good vehicle on vehicle balance feedback. The perfect vehicle playground, where squads of proto stompers go to murder other proto stompers and the occasional inexperienced blueberry. Note that this would require the ability to disable tankbush in the match finder. Is that even possible?
MINA Longstrike 843	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:23:00 - [25] - Quote Vehicle players come to ambush for a few reasons - not 'just' to slaughter infantry 1) shorter matches put your investment at less risk 2) less vehicles make it easier to establish 'dominance' once again putting your investment at less risk 3) keeping an enemy scattered or preventing them from organizing once again means that your investment is at less risk 4) the lack of 'objectives' prevents people from having things to rally around (other than defensible locations and its always better to be on the offends in ambush) which ones again leads to putting your vehicle investment at less risk. Notice the common theme here? Most vehicle users are using this game mode to avoid some of the extremely prohibitive costs associated with current game mods and vehicle balance - you can have 15m sp into vehicles and it doesn't matter because any idiot with a sica and 2 damage mods can blow your 300-400k tank or 700k isk dropship up in 3 shots. Though due to rep speed on 3x rep madrugars your practically invulnerable to infantry. Ambush vehicle play is a symptom of currently existing design issues, not the problem itself. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
anaboop Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 89	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:24:00 - [26] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is sure to be a flammable topic. Here are a few of our reasons: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games 2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users 3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay 4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons. Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. The main problem I see is if all infantry go ambush and only vehicle users goto the rest, dropships will have literally nothing to target but other vehicles or the odd infantry in dom skirmish, put simply not enough players for this. You may as well remove all vehicles completely. av skills, vehicle skills, turrent skills will be useless. Players that just dont want to deal with vehicles altogether will just run ambush and not have to worry them. What if vehicles damage is reduced by 50% while in ambush modes? Or something along those lines. This idea is basically alienating vehicle users to fight amoungst themselves. Fully sick Anaboop trading card
Moonracer2000 Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 809	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:32:00 - [27] - Quote I am all for vehicle free ambush. If people are divided, is it possible to set aside one or two battle servers (or however you do things) for a vehicle free mode? Maybe put it in the special contracts section if that can be done server side. Then you can see if that mode is more popular. Or just do it for hotfix Bravo and if people don't like it, revert back for hotfix Charlie.
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1433	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:36:00 - [28] - Quote I AGREE WITH REMOVING VEHICLES COMPLETELY FROM REGULAR AMBUSH AND AMBUSH OMS Quote: While the player that participates in any anti-vehicle gameplay is completely handicapped against infantry the vehicle player suffers from no such handicap while going anti-infantry with vehicles. REASONING In ambush the only purpose is to kill other mercs. When a vehicle can kill more mercs than another player that is not in a vehicle and at the same time it takes more than 3 people to effectively deal with one vehicle; you have a lopsided event. Now it is true that both teams have the ability to call out to vehicles which, in theory, would make things fair but, do to the state of matchmaking and the first come first serve nature of calling out vehicles; ambush matches tend to be lopsided. In this there is also the economical capabilities of each player and corp where some have been farming PC and other have not for x or y reason, some can afford aurum gear and some cannot. Hence this creates a match type that has it's fate decided most times by who can call out tanks first and who can call more tanks out again and again when lost. THE NUMBERS GAME Now imaging a match where 1 tank is pulled out. That same tanks needs at least 3 people to kill it if not more. Now those same three people that came out to to destroy the vehicle eliminate the clone killing potential of a team simply to nullify the increased killing potential of the enemy team. The result is a net loss in mercenary killing potential while the enemy team has no net loss in killing potential. Furthermore that tank is also getting support from other infantry trying to kill the av guys which are left very handicapped to defend themselves. TACTICS/u] We also have to include the fact that the matches usually don't have a way to refit for tactical purposes. Some might say what about AMBUSH OMS and I would say you are right, that game mode has a possibility for tactical refit but if you have played these type of matches you notice that the Supply depots are usually slaughterhouses where the team who has the vehicles can farm the poor souls trying to refit to deal with him. Hence the whole idea of having a vehicle in this game mode creates the same situation; whoever has vehicles wins by default a great majority of the times. THAT SMART DEPLOY THOUGH The vehicle thing wouldn't be half as bad if you actually stood a chance at spawning at a decent point but smart deploy only give you the usual two types of spawns. Either you spawn in front of all that infantry or maybe in front of a blaster tank that is somehow already shooting you are you spawn all the way across the map where you are absolutely no good at you job be it AV or anti-infantry. [u]CONCLUSION Vehicles have no play in ambush or ambush OMS. While the player that participates in any anti-vehicle gameplay is completely handicapped against infantry the vehicle player suffers from no such handicap while going anti-infantry with vehicles. This makes so that the statistical outcome of a match is usually ruled by either the best tank or the guy who can pull the most tanks out. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
anaboop Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 89	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:45:00 - [29] - Quote Giving vehicles a clone amount like dropsuit clones, once it runs out no more vehicles can be called in, although this may cause for a lack of better words dicktards to spam vehicles ruining it for everyone else, or delay of 2 minutes per vehicle called out per person with a vehicle clone. Fully sick Anaboop trading card
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3432	Posted - 2014.06.09 10:47:00 - [30] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: Vehicle players come to ambush for a few reasons - not 'just' to slaughter infantry 1) shorter matches put your investment at less risk 2) less vehicles make it easier to establish 'dominance' once again putting your investment at less risk 3) keeping an enemy scattered or preventing them from organizing once again means that your investment is at less risk 4) the lack of 'objectives' prevents people from having things to rally around (other than defensible locations and its always better to be on the offends in ambush) which ones again leads to putting your vehicle investment at less risk. Notice the common theme here? Most vehicle users are using this game mode to avoid some of the extremely prohibitive costs associated with current game mods and vehicle balance - you can have 15m sp into vehicles and it doesn't matter because any idiot with a sica and 2 damage mods can blow your 300-400k tank or 700k isk dropship up in 3 shots. Though due to rep speed on 3x rep madrugars your practically invulnerable to infantry. Ambush vehicle play is a symptom of currently existing design issues, not the problem itself. This. I run a railgun in ambush a lot of the time. When I do I almost always end up with fewer than ten kills, usually less than five. The same when I'm using missiles (I don't use blasters these days). Slaying just isn't my priority in ambush, tbh. I usually spend my time tank hunting. I would be overjoyed with the removal of tanks from 'bush were another vehicle-only game type added. Were there no silver lining of that sort, I would be very disappointed at the negation of one-quarter of my SP (including AV) in one- third of the game. BlowoutForCPM

Skybladev2 LUX AETERNA INT RUST415 116	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:09:00 - [31] - Quote I vote for this change, Ambush maps are too small for vehicles, they just farming infantry. Maybe Domination should be revisited too. <[^_^]>
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3215	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:13:00 - [32] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: I want to remind everyone that there's an inherent flaw as well with wanting vehicles removed from Ambush but not Ambush OMS.... You can't choose which one you jump into. If I'm an infantry guy who wants to play a game-mode without vehicles, it's not going to help anything leaving it up to chance - I'm likely to just leave the match and get frustrated that I have to wait in a que again (assuming I don't get thrown into the same match I just left). The thing about it guys, is that you have to consider this from both ends of the spectrum. Yes, vehicles are powerful and wanting them removed from Ambush is totally understandable but it's a DIRECT and CLEAR impact on another player's playstyle. If he spent all his SP into vehicles, than removing them from play is practically invalidating all of that SP investment. I'm not cool with that, at all. Previously Ambush OMS and regular ambush where splitted on the battlefinder. CCP merged them both onto the battlefinder for reasons which i dont know. I want that be reversed to the state where i can choose what to play and it shouldnt be too hard to get this into the game. The battlefinder would look then like this: Ambush-Ambush OMS-Skirmish-Domination. 4 game modes to pick from instead of 3. You can argue that ambush and ambush OMS are the same but so i could say about domination beeing skirmish.
Yoma Carrim Last VenDetta. Dark Taboo 566	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:28:00 - [33] - Quote As much as I like being *that* guy in my python when I'm having a bad day Ambush is a TDM environment and Vehicle's (not just HAVs) high EHP tends to much it up because there is no place to hide from us. Even LAVs can be a nightmare to take down if someone has invested the Isk and skill to properly outfit it Removing Vehicles from ambush would also improve NPE because TDM is where the new players go to experiment with playstyles and fittings. Oh Heck
Denchlad 7 Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 305	Posted - 2014.06.09 11:51:00 - [34] - Quote -Split both Ambush and OMS if possible. -Ambush becomes no vehicles, small maps only (e.g. Research Facility, possibly Manus Peak) 50 Clones. -Ambush OMS stays as is, 2 Vehicles permitted, 80 Clones, large maps only, with Installations. Keeps both sides happy by providing the best compromise. I will be the only player to Prototype every single god damn weapon before Dust dies. I swear to it.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1543	Posted - 2014.06.09 13:15:00 - [35] - Quote Yes, please remove Vehicles from Ambush --- or --- Give us strong enough Swarms to fight them. * If better Swarms would break other playmodes for Pilots, then I favor the former. If Pilots are agreeable to better Swarms, then I favor the latter. As for splitting Ambush and Ambush OMS, I think it important to point out that our player base is neither especially large nor is it rapidly growing. Perhaps we can revisit de-consolidation at a later date. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
Beld Errmon 1664	Posted - 2014.06.09 13:22:00 - [36] - Quote I'm all for removing vehicles from ambush completely, I'm a vehicle specialist and i'd love a break from running them from time to time, an infantry only mode would be excellent for this. Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 996	Posted - 2014.06.09 13:28:00 - [37] - Quote I support no vehicles in Ambush. Worst case scenario, you can add them back down the road if it is *that bad*, which I highly doubt it will be. Best Idea For Legion
Thaddeus Reynolds Facepunch Security 31	Posted - 2014.06.09 13:36:00 - [38] - Quote KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote: I don't see why Ambush needs vehicles at all, they're a much better fit in Skirmish and Domination. There is no benefit to keeping them in Ambush, and there IS benefit to removing them. I won't complain if you keep them out of Ambush. I gotta disagree with you here, vehicles do serve multiple valuable roles in Ambush. They serve as mobile cover on otherwise open areas of maps, rapid transportation on maps that would be too large for a standard FPS TMD setup, as valuable spawn zones (to get away from the death pits that so often get setup, through both teammates placing bad uplinks, and smart deploy being "smart deploy") when people run the mCRU. And before you ask, no not all deathpits are caused by Blaster HAVs, slayer infantry can do it in some cases more effectively. The big issue with vehicles in ambush is as a result of missing vehicle roles that need to be filled...that and teammates who won't grab a frakking swarm launcher, PLC, or FG to deal with the two Maddies hugging the line, and instead charge at them with Plasma Rifle clutched in hand. That being said, I do agree that there should be a gamemode without them, but not necessarily all ambush. Make vehicles count as OMS (and warbarge strikes while you're at it)
SAIRAX SIS Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 71	Posted - 2014.06.09 14:57:00 - [39] - Quote NO that is good idea...but, isnt fairness for Vehicle only users...
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 165	Posted - 2014.06.09 15:01:00 - [40] - Quote b...b...but... what will i hit with my forge gun? I kind of disagree with this. I think lowering it to 2 vehicles was enough. What you are doing is removing content instead of adding it. Come on CCP, not only are you cutting back corporate costs, you're cutting consumer quality. This is NOT a normal FPS game. What you are doing is making it so players who skilled into vehicles can no longer play Ambush anymore without sucking at it. All I know is this is giving me second thoughts about skilling into the Large Missile. My thoughts on Hotfix Alpha: First I noticed a scout running from my AR. Then a heavy. Then a COMBAT RIFLE USER. CCP +1

I-Shayz-I I-----I 3644	Posted - 2014.06.09 15:11:00 - [41] - Quote 1. Yes. I'd say 100% of the guys I talk to in Dust are in complete support of this. 2. Vehicles are still a problem in Skirmish at open-base objectives (especially things like the socket that allows a vehicle to drive around an objective and through it, able to shoot the player hacking. I would agree that the large scale problem is map design, and that the small scale fix would be to remove them from Ambush altogether. What effect number 1 will have to increase the problem of number 2 is still not certain however. 7162 wp with a Repair Tool! List of Legion Feedback Threads!
manboar thunder fist SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 49	Posted - 2014.06.09 15:12:00 - [42] - Quote Just remove tanks from ambush, we need the tactical ability to call in LAV or dropship for rapid transport, escape and tactical positioning. For example entire team is stuck behind a hill, huh, call a dropship, transport to city rooftop, save a few dozen clones from being killed. Lavs can't get mass kills, Assault dropships are currently pretty flimsy, i reckon they should stay in ambush, it's helpful to have eye in the sky and seeing as 1 forge gunner or swarm launcher can successfully knock off a dropship's aim and send it running i think it benefits the usefulness of commando class and forge gun heavies. The only problem is tanks as they can rip up infantry on open maps at an unprecedented rate. Also consider this, by removing dropships and lavs from ambush you lock down the infantry to their movement speeds, which is arguably a horrible idea since heavies, logis and coordinated squads will suffer. I suggest a "timer" which counts down until vehicles can be called in on both sides, perhaps 1-2 minutes into the game, to give it the feel of a sudden battle escalating quickly, a true Ambush. NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
LAVALLOIS Nash QcGOLD 188	Posted - 2014.06.09 15:18:00 - [43] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games Not all vehicles are as harmful though. is ther any way that it could just be "vehicles light" with just tanks and Assault drop ships restricted? LAVs are good for outflanking an advancing enemy and breaching though their lines. Regular dropships are good for placing uplinks on roofs or for hosting a CRU high above the fight. The reason vehicles have harmed ambush as much as they have is because some people call in fully loaded anti infantry tanks that they then use to rush and shoot down any vehicles the other team will be calling in. Not to mention with triple reps and a lack of cover, a enemy have have a hard time getting its forge gunners to take down the tanks. But I still feel that LAV and regular dropships have their place in these modes.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2849	Posted - 2014.06.09 15:22:00 - [44] - Quote IMO, I'd like to see vehicles removed from Ambush, but keep the vehicles in Ambush-OMS Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Cyrius Li-Moody 0uter.Heaven 5676	Posted - 2014.06.09 15:28:00 - [45] - Quote Infantry only ambush? PRAISE THE SUN Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
tween tween UrAnus Air Service 4	Posted - 2014.06.09 15:50:00 - [46] - Quote SAIRAX SIS wrote: NO that is good idea...but, isnt fairness for Vehicle only users... As someone who has most of his SP skilled into tanking, I support the idea of REMOVING VEHICLES from ambush, as HAV's(tanks) and assault dropships mostly just farm infantry. To keep this as civil as much and not completely disintegrate the comment by Sairax Sis, I will come up with a counter arguement, that it is not fair that some infantry has to carry AV in a Team Deathmatch and die by enemy infantry, because they have noone to protect them. Not everyone runs in squads 24/7 like I assume Sairax Sis does and let's face it. Alternatively, do it like in the old days and split ambush and ambush OMS up on the selection screen and allow vehicles in Ambush OMS, though I would rather want it vehicles removed all together from these gametypes. Vehicles have a more strategic use in Domination(the gametype I play mostly) and skirmish and for it is not all maps that tanks will have all that much use(think of the map with underground objective for example). A personal motive for me with the removal of vehicles from ambush is that I can hope that people like Duna and Sairax Sis, who have spent alot of SP in vehicles will come play Domination or Skirmish, as I assume they are very bad running as infantry. Chances of this a slim probaly, as eventhough I mostly play alone and I'm only a decent tanker, I would more than able to take on Duna and Sairax. For so long, infantry as been slaugthered by vehicles in Ambush, we all remember the famous murder taxi's. Let the infantry in ambush be alone and see how it works out. More than likely Duna and Sairax(or other nyan san vehicle users) will leave the game, as being in vehicles in ambush is all they know and can, but atleast it might make more bluedots stay, heck might even attract some of the old playersback before dust goes legion. Too all of you vehicle users in Ambush who think it is not fair. Well, life isn't fair and it has not been fair for infantry lately in AMBUSH I have tried to be civil and hope I succeeded, but I do have these words. Duna, you are "another word for cat". Tween out!
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 805	Posted - 2014.06.09 16:03:00 - [47] - Quote I will have to think about this one. Originally I thought it a no-brainer but I like to play IAV, with no vehicles I probably wouldn't play Ambush Is there a way to delay deployment of vehicles? The biggest problem with vehicles is that there is no time to set up to fight them. Swarms need buffing if other tank balancing issues are done then that might be enough. Let's say vehicles can't be deployed for 30 seconds at the beginning of the match. Some of the problems in Ambush are completely avoidable, I can't tell you many time I run and drop links and hive in a place to combat tanks and overlapping each other to reduce the chances of spawn camping only to watch guys spawn and immediately leave to run down to the killing field. AV is seldom seen, probably because it is ineffective, but largely because most people want Ambush to be a no strategy, no tactics game where you are placed 20 feet from each other and all you have to do is go pew pew. Vehicles Because, that's why.
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1330	Posted - 2014.06.09 16:15:00 - [48] - Quote LAVALLOIS Nash wrote: CCP Rattati wrote: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games Not all vehicles are as harmful though. is ther any way that it could just be "vehicles light" with just tanks and Assault drop ships restricted? LAVs are good for outflanking an advancing enemy and breaching though their lines. Regular dropships are good for placing uplinks on roofs or for hosting a CRU high above the fight. The reason vehicles have harmed ambush as much as they have is because some people call in fully loaded anti infantry tanks that they then use to rush and shoot down any vehicles the other team will be calling in. Not to mention with triple reps and a lack of cover, a enemy have have a hard time getting its forge gunners to take down the tanks. But I still feel that LAV and regular dropships have their place in these modes. Totally disagree, HMG+LAV is already a problem. If you take tanks and ADS out of the equation there will be almost no way to destroy a murder taxi. They can be tanked to the point where swarms are ineffective and multiple forge hits are required, which is impossible given how fast they get away. Having a HMG heavy jump out of an LAV at point blank range is just as cheap and infuriating as being spawn camped by a blaster tank. Similar point with regular dropships. If there is no threat from tanks or ADS, dropships with door gunners would be in full-on farming mode. The right move is the removal of all vehicles from ambush and ambush OMS. It will really reinvigorate the mode.
Iron Wolf Saber Den of Swords 15396	Posted - 2014.06.09 16:53:00 - [49] - Quote WHile I am in favor of removing vehicles in Ambush. I'd rather see AV vs V tweaked much more first to see if we can get the vehicles into a state that calling one down in ambush can be an ill advised move. Meanwhile ambush itself can learn to stand to have its smart deploy adjusted to take into consideration how many friendlies dying in a given area. And prioritizing the stats of enemies in location and friendly deaths over the number of friendlies. CPM 0 Secretary Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist \\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
843 Epidemic BurgezzE.T.F General Tso's Alliance 1404	Posted - 2014.06.09 16:57:00 - [50] - Quote Yes, remove them. Although I like many enjoy running a vehicle in ambush sometimes there truly is no point to it. Brb, sister needs the TV

Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 826	Posted - 2014.06.09 17:15:00 - [51] - Quote SAIRAX SIS wrote: NO that is good idea...but, isnt fairness for Vehicle only users... >Nyain San >Against removing vehicles in ambush Well CCP if you were looking for an endorsement to remove them,you now have it. But a slight change should be made to "smart deploy",instead of random crappy suicide spawns: -press "smart deploy" -get control over the reticule (like dropping an OB) -spawn within the circle of the selected area -or- Rename it "random deploy" or "suicide deploy".
Cyrus Grevare warravens Final Resolution. 222	Posted - 2014.06.09 17:22:00 - [52] - Quote Don't remove them, there's not as much people playing Dust514 as we all would like, alienating some from Ambush will make more quit even if some are just vehicle spammers. Like some have said, Balance AV to make it a viable counter, this includes the swarms launchers which is covered in another thread. Fix Smart Deploy or at least give an option to deploy AWAY from the killzone. Dropsuit passive scanning should work for vehicles at further ranges, sure my assault suit might have a scan range of 10m, but it should be able to pickup a 200db signature and not need to be next to it. Tank scouts are not cool and no, hearing them doesn't help that much, it's not easy to distinguish a friendly tank from an enemy tank and directional sound could be a lot better, even with a headset it's difficult to know where a tank is coming from. After this, if still a problem, then remove them. www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
Alena Ventrallis The Neutral Zone Psychotic Alliance 1277	Posted - 2014.06.09 18:01:00 - [53] - Quote No vehicles in ambush. 2 vehicle limit in ambush OMS. Normal limit is skirm/dom. That's what you get!! - DA Rick
Ku Shala The Generals General Tso's Alliance 947	Posted - 2014.06.09 18:44:00 - [54] - Quote +1 to split the modes back into ambush (50clones no infantry) and ambush oms ( 80 clones vehcles and installations) *-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä* Closed Beta ¦¦V¦¦e¦¦t ¦¦ H8R Caldari Loyalist
manboar thunder fist SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 50	Posted - 2014.06.09 18:57:00 - [55] - Quote So really what we are saying here is not that vehicles in ambush are a major problem, but the balance of being stomped while you're spawning and the inability to retaliate is the real issue. Personally i feel with the new improvements to blaster dispersion it is hard to even take down 1 proto forgegunner without risking your tank completely, 2 people with atleast adv av should IMO provide sufficient suppresion to keep a madrugar in red alert until infantry take out the AV, this would allow for more tactical gameplay and a real team based effort in ambush. In conclusion i feel that if only a timer can be implemented to stop vehicle spawns until 2 minutes into the game this will give players a benchmark for escalated warfare, a quick getaway or an eye in the sky without being wrecked as soon as duna, cough, i mean a random tanker, calls his instastomp madrugar in. SIMPLE VERSION 1. vehicle/av balance fixed 2. timer implemented to stop vehicle stomping from the beginning NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Ilia Ardent The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 1	Posted - 2014.06.09 19:06:00 - [56] - Quote Rather than taking them out completely why don't you have a simple toggle solution in the same area as the game mode toggle? This way you can choose; vehicle/no vehicle. As well as Proto/no Proto. This would certainly help new players by eliminating Proto stompers an vehicle farmers across all game modes.
manboar thunder fist SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 51	Posted - 2014.06.09 19:16:00 - [57] - Quote Ilia Ardent wrote: Rather than taking them out completely why don't you have a simple toggle solution in the same area as the game mode toggle? This way you can choose; vehicle/no vehicle. As well as Proto/no Proto. This would certainly help new players by eliminating Proto stompers an vehicle farmers across all game modes. welcome to the like ladder +1 NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES nerf life
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN 742	Posted - 2014.06.09 20:45:00 - [58] - Quote Off topic: 6 vs 6 game mode so idiotberries don't screw you over. "I never pull out" ~Ace Boone, 2014.
Kevall Longstride DUST University Ivy League 1394	Posted - 2014.06.09 21:34:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is sure to be a flammable topic. Here are a few of our reasons: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games 2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users 3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay 4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons. Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. No one could possibly give an arguement to counter any of that. However, I'd say that supply depots shouldn't be on the maps to prevent ammo farming. Repairs and ammo replenishment performed by the equipment they bring. The spawn mechanics MUST first be altered as well and for pity's sake use the smallest maps. CPM1 Candidate CEO of DUST University
ZDub 303 Escrow Removal and Acquisition Dirt Nap Squad. 3044	Posted - 2014.06.09 21:50:00 - [60] - Quote The answer is yes, remove slayer-focused vehicles from ambush. I can still see a use for transport vehicles, so maybe leave in basic dropships and LAVs and just remove HAVs and ADSs. If that's not possible server side. Easy fix would be to set vehicle limit to zero. It would mean a bit of huffing around for slower suits though, but I think most can agree it would be for the best. I would rather run around on my Amarr Logi with no LAV transport at all than have to deal with HAVs in ambush.

emtbraincase Savage Bullet 179	Posted - 2014.06.09 21:54:00 - [61] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is sure to be a flammable topic. Here are a few of our reasons: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games 2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users 3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay 4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons. Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. Give 2 ambush choices. 1) Reinstitute "Ambush OMS" (80 man w/ cru/sd/turret ONLY)=includes vehicles and utilizes same rules as Dom/Skirm for numbers 2) Current "Ambush"(80 man without cru/sd/turret or any 50 man)=no vehicles at all. No specific bonus to points for playing one mode v another. Only benefit to infantry is the added payout for taking out tanks already present. Simple, problem solved. P.S. This is likely already stated because it has been discussed by most everyone I know, but just in case I wanted to put it out there. Credit goes to many people for simplicity, not myself. We agreed it did what it needed, without changing anything.
BL4CKST4R WarRavens Final Resolution. 2762	Posted - 2014.06.09 22:02:00 - [62] - Quote Either remove vehicles from ambush or make it so a tank can't solo an entire match with little to no fear. It takes one man to operate with little to no difficulty, so it should take one man to put it down with little to no difficulty. Deal with it. Bonus points if proto and adv av weapons are removed since we only have basic tanks released, and av is balanced from there. supercalifragilisticexpialidocious
SAIRAX SIS Nyain San General Tso's Alliance 71	Posted - 2014.06.09 22:05:00 - [63] - Quote Meee One wrote: SAIRAX SIS wrote: NO that is good idea...but, isnt fairness for Vehicle only users... >Nyain San . So NS, even something wrong?pÇÇ In the first place, there is a problem with the CCPs balance adjustment of the vehicle. No problem for me, but vehicle users motivation decreases...
A'Real Fury D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 958	Posted - 2014.06.09 22:07:00 - [64] - Quote please remove vehicles from Ambush and Ambush OMS, unless you can choose which Ambush you want to play. If possible reduce the size of the maps as they are far too big for TDM as much of the space is wasted. Public Relations - tick tick BOOM. PSN: CallOfTheDark
deezy dabest Sacred Initiative of Combat Killers 599	Posted - 2014.06.09 22:11:00 - [65] - Quote I think the best way to test this is to make ambush under the battle finder go to OMS only with vehicles allowed and put regular ambush under the special contracts option for a week or two. Once a winner has been chosen that can remain in the battle finder while the special contract is removed. That slot is not being used for anything else so may as well make it a way for the actual in game users who do not come to the forums to cast their vote. Laser focused in a room full of mirrors. Everything you ever wanted coming SoonGäó just keep buying boosters.
Will Driver Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 68	Posted - 2014.06.10 00:20:00 - [66] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: I would say for balancing reasons you should splitt ambush OMS (80 clones) and regular ambush (50 clones). Allow vehicles in OMS and prohibit the usage of any vehicle in the regular variant. The reason behind this is that you can change out on supply depots for AV. I think this is a good idea. I'd make ambush OMS and ambush with these vehicle characteristics, but make them separate, selectable types of matches. The community will sort it out by the choices we make collectively as to which one (or both) we want to play. GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥ GÇò Albert Einstein
Talon Paetznick II Gallente Federation Resistance 7	Posted - 2014.06.10 02:33:00 - [67] - Quote how about an infantry only ambush mode called unemployable or UDM where large objects like vehicles or installations cannot be deployed, essentially the exact opposite of OMS getting killed by ion pistol = dropping the soap
Talon Paetznick II Gallente Federation Resistance 7	Posted - 2014.06.10 02:34:00 - [68] - Quote and have similar modes for skirm and dom especially dom getting killed by ion pistol = dropping the soap
Meee One BATTLE SURVEY GROUP Dark Taboo 828	Posted - 2014.06.10 02:41:00 - [69] - Quote SAIRAX SIS wrote: Meee One wrote: SAIRAX SIS wrote: NO that is good idea...but, isnt fairness for Vehicle only users... >Nyain San . So NS, even something wrong?pÇÇ In the first place, there is a problem with the CCPs balance adjustment of the vehicle. No problem for me, but vehicle users motivation decreases... Cry me a river please. ADSs can wreck Pro suits with 2 shots,yet if suits fight back the ADS gets the chance to escape. Fair? No -But ADSs are so expensive! Count the isk lost by other players vs the isk cost of the ADS,the ADS does much more damage than it costs. The same applies to HAVs,having a mode without these leeches will be refreshing.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2560	Posted - 2014.06.10 03:47:00 - [70] - Quote Aeon Amadi wrote: This harkens back to the fact that Vehicles, without a clear cut role, are just better slayers. They essentially perform the same way as Infantry, only being immune to a large portion of the small arms in the game. Vehicles thrive in Ambush -because- there are no objectives. When the only thing you have to do is kill the enemy, it leads to power imbalances whenever a playstyle like tanks are implemented. By removing vehicles, it does certainly help the infantry a great deal but in the same sense, it also slaughters a lot of options for vehicle users who want to play a game-mode that utilizes what their specialization is all about: Makin' **** dead. I'm not necessarily for removing vehicles in Ambush because I think that it limits a player's playstyle and forces segregation artificially, but I can see the benefit of it being implemented. My considerations are that many of the maps, while not optimized for vehicle - Infantry play, aren't optimized for solely infantry play either. Many Ambush maps have -HUGE- stretches of space that have to be traveled just to get any sort of decent combat. Impact Ridge is especially bad about this. Ultimately, I don't think this is really going to make much adjustment to the game as a whole; it'll just force vehicle users to play in other game modes where the Vehicle vs AV balance will only rear it's ugly head even more as Skirmish/Domination still have higher vehicle caps. I think this proposal should wait until Hotfix Charlie so we have time to see the effects of changes made to that balance before we grab the cleaver and hack off a limb. This click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

Greasepalms Ahrendee Mercenaries 586	Posted - 2014.06.10 04:08:00 - [71] - Quote remove standard ambush or add supply depots to them at the very least.
Cardio Therapy Tech Guard RISE of LEGION 39	Posted - 2014.06.10 10:05:00 - [72] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: I would say for balancing reasons you should splitt ambush OMS (80 clones) and regular ambush (50 clones). Allow vehicles in OMS and prohibit the usage of any vehicle in the regular variant. The reason behind this is that you can change out on supply depots for AV. Nice. Ambush only infantry. Ambush OMS vehivles allowed. i like the idea. i will not even touch OMS :)
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4390	Posted - 2014.06.10 10:05:00 - [73] - Quote Meee One wrote: Cry me a river please. I'd really rather you didn't ask people to do that. To cry someone a river would not only dehydrate someone to the point of critical levels, it would also introduce a salt water element in-land which is generally bad for the environment. If you have ever visited Salt Lake in person, you know just how nasty that place is.
Sum1ne Else G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1184	Posted - 2014.06.10 10:05:00 - [74] - Quote http://i.imgur.com/N8GGasO.jpg http://i.imgur.com/43NWLRt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/jynwE3j.jpg http://i.imgur.com/MUk32De.jpg Source
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1440	Posted - 2014.06.10 11:02:00 - [75] - Quote Sum1ne Else wrote: I will leave you with a few pix...great how tanks can 1 v 1 a clone on the ground http://i.imgur.com/N8GGasO.jpg http://i.imgur.com/43NWLRt.jpg http://i.imgur.com/jynwE3j.jpg http://i.imgur.com/MUk32De.jpg Source If this isn't evidence enough to eliminate vehicles from ambush I don't know what is. Thank you for including these pictures... Unfortunately this sometimes is the bread and butter of ambush. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
danie braz Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 47	Posted - 2014.06.10 13:29:00 - [76] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. [grabs a bucket for their tears] Fluoride uranium carbon potassium bismuth technetium helium sulfur germanium thulium Molybdenum neon yttrium
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 993	Posted - 2014.06.10 19:23:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is sure to be a flammable topic. Here are a few of our reasons: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games 2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users 3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay 4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons. Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. Do it, and do it now. I play ambush because I'm looking to kill some infantry. Not to be FORCED to call in a tank to deal with the other tanks out on the field. Not to mention how incredibly easy it is to deny the other team any means of calling a tank in to counter the tankers on the field. Tanks in ambush, given the smaller sizes of the map, lack of a redline, and poor spawn locations, make things VERY one sided. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Alabastor 'TheBlaster' Alcar Silver Bullet Solutions DARKSTAR ARMY 648	Posted - 2014.06.10 19:49:00 - [78] - Quote expand the map and set caps on vehicles by type hav(2) lav (4-6)or derpship(2-4), expand the map make it more sandbox
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 258	Posted - 2014.06.10 20:34:00 - [79] - Quote Attention CCP You have the chance to do something great check this out. 1.The place for Vehicles is to balance them only against vehicles by having only vehicle battle maps. 2.You could make the Eve version of World of Tanks but make it a Universe of Tanks with Air support, Leave the foot soldier out of this they have their fps maps. Now with only vehicles balance them like you space ships .Lore aspect could be the clones are hardwired into vehicles like pods of space ship. War Thundar yesterday had 40,000 people playing with 1500 battles. Just do it.
Luther Mandrix WASTELAND JUNK REMOVAL Top Men. 258	Posted - 2014.06.10 20:39:00 - [80] - Quote Luther Mandrix wrote: Attention CCP You have the chance to do something great check this out. 1.The place for Vehicles is to balance them only against vehicles by having only vehicle battle maps. 2.You could make the Eve version of World of Tanks but make it a Universe of Tanks with Air support, Leave the foot soldier out of this they have their fps maps. Now with only vehicles balance them like your space ships .Lore aspect could be the clones are hardwired into vehicles like pods of space ship. War Thundar yesterday had 40,000 people playing with 1500 battles. Just do it. Eve has fleets were ships group together Eve Universe of Tanks could have Vehicles that group by squad or platoon so platoon commander could maneuver the group while you shoot.

Gelan Corbaine Gladiators Vanguard 458	Posted - 2014.06.10 20:42:00 - [81] - Quote Forcing segregation is bad ..... Forcing segregation without offering a decent alternative is worse . Ambush is the quick and dirty match . something to do when you don't have time or the patience to commit to the longer matches of Skirm and Dom . To lock out a decent portion of your base from quick matches and forcing them to commit to long slogs simply due to Sp allocation can quickly lead to burn out which leads to quiting in frustration . You must have a replacement quick match for the segregated ..... you can't just leave them in the cold. And I say this as one who has practically no points in vehicles. We invest a lot of SP in our roles through a lot of time . No one deserves to have the time and SP simply devalued . No job is worth doing if you don't get paid in the end .
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1061	Posted - 2014.06.11 00:29:00 - [82] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: OP POST I strongly urge the following: - Make sure that the new 'vehicle free ambush' is not a new game mode to queue into. An extra mode would further splinter limited pool of players into smaller shards. (It's highly likely that current playerbase can't support more modes than AMB, SKIRM, DOM, FW Amarr-Min, FW Cald-Gall multiplied by the region servers. That's 20 combos already, not counting PC.) - Consider that there are different types of vehicles, not just the one-man ++bersuit HAVs. Yes yes DSs and LAVs can be potent and getting tons of kills (even LAV gunning can be nice 15+ kdrs nowadays) but they not nearly as blatant as kill farming tools as tanks. (BTW the current vehicle limit denying LAVs sucks). - A new map in circulation in which HAV navigation would be extremely painful would do the trick as well! An elegant solution, yes? :-S
Guiltless D667 37	Posted - 2014.06.11 00:47:00 - [83] - Quote I dont like to repeat myself so ill just leave this here. Guiltless D667 wrote: If it's not one thing, it's another. Ambush struggles with what kind of mode it wants to be and the tipping of power during each match puts vehicles in favor of the mode because of the very layout of the maps and the scarcity of focused troop resistance whether it's the availability of conveniently placed suppy depos,spawns or cover in the wide open nature that most maps seem to exhibit. Sometimes it's just better to get rid of the problem instead of trying to fix it by doing 9 billion other things A Strange Game.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2312	Posted - 2014.06.11 01:35:00 - [84] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is sure to be a flammable topic. Here are a few of our reasons: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games 2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users 3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay 4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons. Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. In order; Proper Vehicle and AV balance would negate the need for such a thing. There are limited game modes and telling an entire segment of the player base (those who dedicated themselves to vehicles, and those who are dedicated AV) that their SP isn't allowed to count within an entire play style seems sub-optimal as far as resolutions go. This is partly due to the way rewards work, once cap is reached ambush becomes the most effective way to grind. This combined with the AV vs Vehicle disparities results in the noted trend. In short it's a symptom with other and deeper roots. This is true and, the first more directly compelling reason to consider such a change. The prior two reasons have other and better solutions. This is also true, and frankly problematic in that ambush is the most rewarded game play mode (when considering que time et al) for grinding post cap. There are reasons for this of course, but having one mode be the primary source of 'income' once cap is reached and having that mode be the least tactical game mode is, to be blunt, sub-optimal. If this is a temporary band aid while other more meaningful fixes are implemented then it seems quite legitimate. If however this is meant as the final solution is trikes me as lacking in several meaningful ways. 0.02 ISK Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Velociraptor antirrhopus Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 179	Posted - 2014.06.11 05:48:00 - [85] - Quote I think that OMS should have vehicles, but the other kind shouldnt. Vehicle users and AV users are going to be really pissed about removing vehicles altogether. My thoughts on Hotfix Alpha: First I noticed a scout running from my AR. Then a heavy. Then a COMBAT RIFLE USER. CCP +1
anaboop Dem Durrty Boyz General Tso's Alliance 97	Posted - 2014.06.11 06:04:00 - [86] - Quote Give vehicles a small amount of ammo once they spawn in, forcing vehicle users to "need" a supply depot, in order to stock upto the maximum, lack of ammo in ambush would be good for infantry, and forcing tank spammers to be conservative with ammo on ambushes. Fully sick Anaboop trading card
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3243	Posted - 2014.06.11 07:11:00 - [87] - Quote Look at it from a different perspective: new players jump into ambush and get spawn killed over and over because there are 2 tanks screwing everything up. Would you stick to a game where you can do allmost nothing at all vs maxed out tankers that just farm kills? I highly doubt that. Another thing is as soon the opposition has 2 tanks on the field its impossible for yourself to get a vehicle without the enemy noticing that and rushing the drop location to shot it while its still hanging underneath the bolas. Its ensuring that the winning team keeps winning without even a slight chance for a comeback. Vehicles are toxic for ambush and only benefit the selfish scrubs like duna2002 who farm kills on ambush.
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1440	Posted - 2014.06.11 07:16:00 - [88] - Quote VIDEO hello, Here is a small video about what happens in ambush. While the tank action is not up in your face the killfeed and the end result is still there. The necessary info is in the beginning which is basically the end result of the tankers in the match. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
MINA Longstrike 851	Posted - 2014.06.11 07:47:00 - [89] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: Look at it from a different perspective: new players jump into ambush and get spawn killed over and over because there are 2 tanks screwing everything up. Would you stick to a game where you can do allmost nothing at all vs maxed out tankers that just farm kills? I highly doubt that. Another thing is as soon the opposition has 2 tanks on the field its impossible for yourself to get a vehicle without the enemy noticing that and rushing the drop location to shot it while its still hanging underneath the bolas. Its ensuring that the winning team keeps winning without even a slight chance for a comeback. Vehicles are toxic for ambush and only benefit the selfish scrubs like duna2002 who farm kills on ambush. Tankbush wasn't a thing until 1.7 Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Kirjuun Heiian. I have a few alts.
Godin Thekiller shadows of 514 2572	Posted - 2014.06.11 07:53:00 - [90] - Quote anaboop wrote: Give vehicles a small amount of ammo once they spawn in, forcing vehicle users to "need" a supply depot, in order to stock upto the maximum, lack of ammo in ambush would be good for infantry, and forcing tank spammers to be conservative with ammo on ambushes. ................................................................. No, I'm not going to do it. click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-

The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3243	Posted - 2014.06.11 09:59:00 - [91] - Quote MINA Longstrike wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Look at it from a different perspective: new players jump into ambush and get spawn killed over and over because there are 2 tanks screwing everything up. Would you stick to a game where you can do allmost nothing at all vs maxed out tankers that just farm kills? I highly doubt that. Another thing is as soon the opposition has 2 tanks on the field its impossible for yourself to get a vehicle without the enemy noticing that and rushing the drop location to shot it while its still hanging underneath the bolas. Its ensuring that the winning team keeps winning without even a slight chance for a comeback. Vehicles are toxic for ambush and only benefit the selfish scrubs like duna2002 who farm kills on ambush. Tankbush wasn't a thing until 1.7 Yes because 2 guys with lai dai av grenades where enough to kill anything. Which was problematic on a different lvl. Now about something else: even if we would just allow LAV's in ambush people will again start to complain about heavys driving around doing drive by's with a HMG. And dropships allow you to camp rooftops like a twatt which slows down the gameplay. I know about that cause i done both at some point in the game. So the only way to eliminate these scrublord tactis is to get rid of vehicles in ambush.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 30	Posted - 2014.06.11 10:24:00 - [92] - Quote I think it would be a good thing to reintroduce a choice between Ambush OMS and normal Ambush so we could chose between a normal ambush without vehicles (no vehicles at all. As dark cloud said, there will always be a LAV heavy driving arround screwing the game or some folks hidden at the top of some roofs/towers slowing the game). Taking out vehicles from ambush is probably the best thing you can do to make the game WAY better! (with new gamemodes and bugs fix) Sorry for my bad english :D
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1440	Posted - 2014.06.11 10:46:00 - [93] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: VIDEO hello, Here is a small video about what happens in ambush. While the tank action is not up in your face the killfeed and the end result is still there. The necessary info is in the beginning which is basically the end result of the tankers in the match. link is fixed Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
castba Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 473	Posted - 2014.06.11 11:01:00 - [94] - Quote Split ambush into two modes like it used to be. Ambush OMS - allow vehicle deploy. Ambush - no vehicle deploy (not even LAVs) Vehicles in an ambush mode are fine IF infantry can change dropsuits to tackle them without the need for suicide in a mode that relies on clone counts.
Lorhak Gannarsein Legio DXIV 3453	Posted - 2014.06.11 12:04:00 - [95] - Quote The dark cloud wrote: MINA Longstrike wrote: The dark cloud wrote: Look at it from a different perspective: new players jump into ambush and get spawn killed over and over because there are 2 tanks screwing everything up. Would you stick to a game where you can do allmost nothing at all vs maxed out tankers that just farm kills? I highly doubt that. Another thing is as soon the opposition has 2 tanks on the field its impossible for yourself to get a vehicle without the enemy noticing that and rushing the drop location to shot it while its still hanging underneath the bolas. Its ensuring that the winning team keeps winning without even a slight chance for a comeback. Vehicles are toxic for ambush and only benefit the selfish scrubs like duna2002 who farm kills on ambush. Tankbush wasn't a thing until 1.7 Yes because 2 guys with lai dai av grenades where enough to kill anything. Which was problematic on a different lvl. Now about something else: even if we would just allow LAV's in ambush people will again start to complain about heavys driving around doing drive by's with a HMG. And dropships allow you to camp rooftops like a twatt which slows down the gameplay. I know about that cause i done both at some point in the game. So the only way to eliminate these scrublord tactis is to get rid of vehicles in ambush. Clearly the fix is somewhere between 'two guys with Lai Dais killing everything' and 'tank bush'. The question, of course, is how that can be reached with the current tank model. I would dearly love a rollback to 1.6 vehicles with current pricing; I think it was far superior to now in V/AV balance. Although DSes would definitely need some work still... CCP Rattati Best Dev Sorry, Blowout...
Sum1ne Else G0DS AM0NG MEN General Tso's Alliance 1188	Posted - 2014.06.11 13:38:00 - [96] - Quote Velociraptor antirrhopus wrote: I think that OMS should have vehicles, but the other kind shouldnt. Vehicle users and AV users are going to be really pissed about removing vehicles altogether. err no..most people play ambush to 1 v 1 people not vehicles. Im pretty sure most people have more than just an AV suit, and if you're going into an ambush spawning a forge gun its because its inevitable there will be a tank, so you go in to help your team mates. Tank much Velociraptor?
Alfold Firebrand Storm Wind Strikeforce Caldari State 0	Posted - 2014.06.11 13:58:00 - [97] - Quote This proposal is racism against mere tank ride player. This proposal denies all of SP, ISK, and time which the tank riding player invested. is not allowed to participate in the game it It is a discriminatory act that crossed the line of balance adjustment.
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1443	Posted - 2014.06.11 14:11:00 - [98] - Quote deleted Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
Malkai Inos Any Given Day 1359	Posted - 2014.06.11 14:34:00 - [99] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: deleted You did have a point here, in that infantry gameplay suffered considerably from post 1.7 vehicle balance, so i'll respond as if your comment was still here. Vehicles as a whole (save for LLAVS maybe) have had the stick for for almost a year before that so yeah... But I agree that the constant imbalance, one way or the other, has brought us to the point where pilots and infantry see each other as enemies in the most literal sense. No other way to explain how one part of the community can accept and even support cutting the choices available to another in order to basically gain the choice to not play with them. The problem is, and will remain, in the way infantry and vehicles interact with each other on current maps and removing one from a game mode treats a symptom, not the underlying cause, while further segregating an already estranged community. You can take a benign object, -you can take a cheeseburger and deconstruct it to its source...
XxGhazbaranxX Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 1443	Posted - 2014.06.11 14:36:00 - [100] - Quote Malkai Inos wrote: XxGhazbaranxX wrote: deleted You did have a point here, in that infantry gameplay suffered considerably from post 1.7 vehicle balance, so i'll respond as if your comment was still here. Vehicles as a whole (save for LLAVS maybe) have had the stick for for almost a year before that so yeah... But I agree that the constant imbalance, one way or the other, has brought us to the point where pilots and infantry see each other as enemies in the most literal sense. No other way to explain how one part of the community can accept and even support cutting the choices available to another in order to basically gain the choice to not play with them. The problem is, and will remain, in the way infantry and vehicles interact with each other on current maps and removing one from a game mode treats a symptom, not the underlying cause, while further segregating an already estranged community. nah man I thought someone replied to another post about dropships killing tanks. Hence the delete; not really meant for this topic. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor

jaksol JAK darnson Kameira Lodge Amarr Empire 18	Posted - 2014.06.11 19:51:00 - [101] - Quote CCP Rattati wrote: This is sure to be a flammable topic. Here are a few of our reasons: 1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games 2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users 3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay 4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons. Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall. i dont mind the ambush idea as o have learned the hard way to bring vehiches to ambush as its so easy to go to neocome comet suisiced and come in a swarm luancher "Sacrifice is a choice you make. Loss is a choice made for you."
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 1692	Posted - 2014.06.11 23:58:00 - [102] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: VIDEO hello, Here is a small video about what happens in ambush. While the tank action is not up in your face the killfeed and the end result is still there. The necessary info is in the beginning which is basically the end result of the tankers in the match. Good stuff, Ghaz. That's Ambush. All day, every day. Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
JARREL THOMAS Dead Man's Game 311	Posted - 2014.06.12 03:15:00 - [103] - Quote If vehicles are in oms but not regular ambush than give us a choice to choose between oms and ambush. Caldari Loyalist I speak for the rabbits


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