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Skybladev2
LUX AETERNA INT
RUST415
116
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Posted - 2014.06.09 11:09:00 -
[31] - Quote
I vote for this change, Ambush maps are too small for vehicles, they just farming infantry.
Maybe Domination should be revisited too.
<[^_^]>
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The dark cloud
The Rainbow Effect
3215
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Posted - 2014.06.09 11:13:00 -
[32] - Quote
Aeon Amadi wrote:I want to remind everyone that there's an inherent flaw as well with wanting vehicles removed from Ambush but not Ambush OMS.... You can't choose which one you jump into. If I'm an infantry guy who wants to play a game-mode without vehicles, it's not going to help anything leaving it up to chance - I'm likely to just leave the match and get frustrated that I have to wait in a que again (assuming I don't get thrown into the same match I just left).
The thing about it guys, is that you have to consider this from both ends of the spectrum. Yes, vehicles are powerful and wanting them removed from Ambush is totally understandable but it's a DIRECT and CLEAR impact on another player's playstyle. If he spent all his SP into vehicles, than removing them from play is practically invalidating all of that SP investment. I'm not cool with that, at all.
Previously Ambush OMS and regular ambush where splitted on the battlefinder. CCP merged them both onto the battlefinder for reasons which i dont know. I want that be reversed to the state where i can choose what to play and it shouldnt be too hard to get this into the game. The battlefinder would look then like this:
Ambush-Ambush OMS-Skirmish-Domination.
4 game modes to pick from instead of 3. You can argue that ambush and ambush OMS are the same but so i could say about domination beeing skirmish. |
Yoma Carrim
Last VenDetta.
Dark Taboo
566
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Posted - 2014.06.09 11:28:00 -
[33] - Quote
As much as I like being *that* guy in my python when I'm having a bad day Ambush is a TDM environment and Vehicle's (not just HAVs) high EHP tends to much it up because there is no place to hide from us.
Even LAVs can be a nightmare to take down if someone has invested the Isk and skill to properly outfit it
Removing Vehicles from ambush would also improve NPE because TDM is where the new players go to experiment with playstyles and fittings.
Oh Heck
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Denchlad 7
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
305
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Posted - 2014.06.09 11:51:00 -
[34] - Quote
-Split both Ambush and OMS if possible.
-Ambush becomes no vehicles, small maps only (e.g. Research Facility, possibly Manus Peak) 50 Clones.
-Ambush OMS stays as is, 2 Vehicles permitted, 80 Clones, large maps only, with Installations.
Keeps both sides happy by providing the best compromise.
I will be the only player to Prototype every single god damn weapon before Dust dies. I swear to it.
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Adipem Nothi
Nos Nothi
1543
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Posted - 2014.06.09 13:15:00 -
[35] - Quote
Yes, please remove Vehicles from Ambush
--- or ---
Give us strong enough Swarms to fight them.
* If better Swarms would break other playmodes for Pilots, then I favor the former. If Pilots are agreeable to better Swarms, then I favor the latter. As for splitting Ambush and Ambush OMS, I think it important to point out that our player base is neither especially large nor is it rapidly growing. Perhaps we can revisit de-consolidation at a later date.
Shoot scout with yes...
- Ripley Riley
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Beld Errmon
1664
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Posted - 2014.06.09 13:22:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'm all for removing vehicles from ambush completely, I'm a vehicle specialist and i'd love a break from running them from time to time, an infantry only mode would be excellent for this.
Pilot - Tanker - FOTM (insert here)
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Maximus Stryker
Who Are Those Guys
996
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Posted - 2014.06.09 13:28:00 -
[37] - Quote
I support no vehicles in Ambush.
Worst case scenario, you can add them back down the road if it is that bad, which I highly doubt it will be.
Best Idea For Legion
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Thaddeus Reynolds
Facepunch Security
31
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Posted - 2014.06.09 13:36:00 -
[38] - Quote
KAGEHOSHI Horned Wolf wrote:I don't see why Ambush needs vehicles at all, they're a much better fit in Skirmish and Domination. There is no benefit to keeping them in Ambush, and there IS benefit to removing them. I won't complain if you keep them out of Ambush.
I gotta disagree with you here, vehicles do serve multiple valuable roles in Ambush. They serve as mobile cover on otherwise open areas of maps, rapid transportation on maps that would be too large for a standard FPS TMD setup, as valuable spawn zones (to get away from the death pits that so often get setup, through both teammates placing bad uplinks, and smart deploy being "smart deploy") when people run the mCRU.
And before you ask, no not all deathpits are caused by Blaster HAVs, slayer infantry can do it in some cases more effectively.
The big issue with vehicles in ambush is as a result of missing vehicle roles that need to be filled...that and teammates who won't grab a frakking swarm launcher, PLC, or FG to deal with the two Maddies hugging the line, and instead charge at them with Plasma Rifle clutched in hand.
That being said, I do agree that there should be a gamemode without them, but not necessarily all ambush. Make vehicles count as OMS (and warbarge strikes while you're at it) |
SAIRAX SIS
Nyain San
General Tso's Alliance
71
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Posted - 2014.06.09 14:57:00 -
[39] - Quote
NO
that is good idea...but, isnt fairness for Vehicle only users... |
Velociraptor antirrhopus
Kang Lo Directorate
Gallente Federation
165
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Posted - 2014.06.09 15:01:00 -
[40] - Quote
b...b...but...
what will i hit with my forge gun? 
I kind of disagree with this. I think lowering it to 2 vehicles was enough.
What you are doing is removing content instead of adding it. Come on CCP, not only are you cutting back corporate costs, you're cutting consumer quality.
This is NOT a normal FPS game. What you are doing is making it so players who skilled into vehicles can no longer play Ambush anymore without sucking at it.
All I know is this is giving me second thoughts about skilling into the Large Missile.
My thoughts on Hotfix Alpha: First I noticed a scout running from my AR. Then a heavy. Then a COMBAT RIFLE USER. CCP +1
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I-Shayz-I
I-----I
3644
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Posted - 2014.06.09 15:11:00 -
[41] - Quote
1. Yes. I'd say 100% of the guys I talk to in Dust are in complete support of this.
2. Vehicles are still a problem in Skirmish at open-base objectives (especially things like the socket that allows a vehicle to drive around an objective and through it, able to shoot the player hacking.
I would agree that the large scale problem is map design, and that the small scale fix would be to remove them from Ambush altogether. What effect number 1 will have to increase the problem of number 2 is still not certain however.
7162 wp with a Repair Tool!
List of Legion Feedback Threads!
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manboar thunder fist
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
49
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Posted - 2014.06.09 15:12:00 -
[42] - Quote
Just remove tanks from ambush, we need the tactical ability to call in LAV or dropship for rapid transport, escape and tactical positioning.
For example entire team is stuck behind a hill, huh, call a dropship, transport to city rooftop, save a few dozen clones from being killed.
Lavs can't get mass kills, Assault dropships are currently pretty flimsy, i reckon they should stay in ambush, it's helpful to have eye in the sky and seeing as 1 forge gunner or swarm launcher can successfully knock off a dropship's aim and send it running i think it benefits the usefulness of commando class and forge gun heavies.
The only problem is tanks as they can rip up infantry on open maps at an unprecedented rate. Also consider this, by removing dropships and lavs from ambush you lock down the infantry to their movement speeds, which is arguably a horrible idea since heavies, logis and coordinated squads will suffer.
I suggest a "timer" which counts down until vehicles can be called in on both sides, perhaps 1-2 minutes into the game, to give it the feel of a sudden battle escalating quickly, a true Ambush.
NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES
nerf life
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LAVALLOIS Nash
QcGOLD
188
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Posted - 2014.06.09 15:18:00 -
[43] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:
1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games
Not all vehicles are as harmful though. is ther any way that it could just be "vehicles light" with just tanks and Assault drop ships restricted?
LAVs are good for outflanking an advancing enemy and breaching though their lines. Regular dropships are good for placing uplinks on roofs or for hosting a CRU high above the fight.
The reason vehicles have harmed ambush as much as they have is because some people call in fully loaded anti infantry tanks that they then use to rush and shoot down any vehicles the other team will be calling in. Not to mention with triple reps and a lack of cover, a enemy have have a hard time getting its forge gunners to take down the tanks.
But I still feel that LAV and regular dropships have their place in these modes. |
Appia Vibbia
Molon Labe.
General Tso's Alliance
2849
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Posted - 2014.06.09 15:22:00 -
[44] - Quote
IMO, I'd like to see vehicles removed from Ambush, but keep the vehicles in Ambush-OMS
Appia Vibbia for CPM1
AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com
AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
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Cyrius Li-Moody
0uter.Heaven
5676
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Posted - 2014.06.09 15:28:00 -
[45] - Quote
Infantry only ambush? PRAISE THE SUN
Youtuber. Your friendly neighborhood whiskey-fueled merc.
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tween tween
UrAnus Air Service
4
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Posted - 2014.06.09 15:50:00 -
[46] - Quote
SAIRAX SIS wrote:NO that is good idea...but, isnt fairness for Vehicle only users...
As someone who has most of his SP skilled into tanking, I support the idea of REMOVING VEHICLES from ambush, as HAV's(tanks) and assault dropships mostly just farm infantry.
To keep this as civil as much and not completely disintegrate the comment by Sairax Sis, I will come up with a counter arguement, that it is not fair that some infantry has to carry AV in a Team Deathmatch and die by enemy infantry, because they have noone to protect them. Not everyone runs in squads 24/7 like I assume Sairax Sis does and let's face it.
Alternatively, do it like in the old days and split ambush and ambush OMS up on the selection screen and allow vehicles in Ambush OMS, though I would rather want it vehicles removed all together from these gametypes.
Vehicles have a more strategic use in Domination(the gametype I play mostly) and skirmish and for it is not all maps that tanks will have all that much use(think of the map with underground objective for example).
A personal motive for me with the removal of vehicles from ambush is that I can hope that people like Duna and Sairax Sis, who have spent alot of SP in vehicles will come play Domination or Skirmish, as I assume they are very bad running as infantry. Chances of this a slim probaly, as eventhough I mostly play alone and I'm only a decent tanker, I would more than able to take on Duna and Sairax.
For so long, infantry as been slaugthered by vehicles in Ambush, we all remember the famous murder taxi's. Let the infantry in ambush be alone and see how it works out. More than likely Duna and Sairax(or other nyan san vehicle users) will leave the game, as being in vehicles in ambush is all they know and can, but atleast it might make more bluedots stay, heck might even attract some of the old playersback before dust goes legion.
Too all of you vehicle users in Ambush who think it is not fair. Well, life isn't fair and it has not been fair for infantry lately in AMBUSH
I have tried to be civil and hope I succeeded, but I do have these words. Duna, you are "another word for cat".
Tween out!
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Nothing Certain
Bioshock Rejects
805
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Posted - 2014.06.09 16:03:00 -
[47] - Quote
I will have to think about this one. Originally I thought it a no-brainer but I like to play IAV, with no vehicles I probably wouldn't play Ambush
Is there a way to delay deployment of vehicles? The biggest problem with vehicles is that there is no time to set up to fight them. Swarms need buffing if other tank balancing issues are done then that might be enough. Let's say vehicles can't be deployed for 30 seconds at the beginning of the match.
Some of the problems in Ambush are completely avoidable, I can't tell you many time I run and drop links and hive in a place to combat tanks and overlapping each other to reduce the chances of spawn camping only to watch guys spawn and immediately leave to run down to the killing field. AV is seldom seen, probably because it is ineffective, but largely because most people want Ambush to be a no strategy, no tactics game where you are placed 20 feet from each other and all you have to do is go pew pew. Vehicles
Because, that's why.
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Ryme Intrinseca
The Rainbow Effect
1330
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Posted - 2014.06.09 16:15:00 -
[48] - Quote
LAVALLOIS Nash wrote:CCP Rattati wrote:
1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games
Not all vehicles are as harmful though. is ther any way that it could just be "vehicles light" with just tanks and Assault drop ships restricted? LAVs are good for outflanking an advancing enemy and breaching though their lines. Regular dropships are good for placing uplinks on roofs or for hosting a CRU high above the fight. The reason vehicles have harmed ambush as much as they have is because some people call in fully loaded anti infantry tanks that they then use to rush and shoot down any vehicles the other team will be calling in. Not to mention with triple reps and a lack of cover, a enemy have have a hard time getting its forge gunners to take down the tanks. But I still feel that LAV and regular dropships have their place in these modes.
Totally disagree, HMG+LAV is already a problem. If you take tanks and ADS out of the equation there will be almost no way to destroy a murder taxi. They can be tanked to the point where swarms are ineffective and multiple forge hits are required, which is impossible given how fast they get away. Having a HMG heavy jump out of an LAV at point blank range is just as cheap and infuriating as being spawn camped by a blaster tank.
Similar point with regular dropships. If there is no threat from tanks or ADS, dropships with door gunners would be in full-on farming mode.
The right move is the removal of all vehicles from ambush and ambush OMS. It will really reinvigorate the mode. |
Iron Wolf Saber
Den of Swords
15396
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Posted - 2014.06.09 16:53:00 -
[49] - Quote
WHile I am in favor of removing vehicles in Ambush.
I'd rather see AV vs V tweaked much more first to see if we can get the vehicles into a state that calling one down in ambush can be an ill advised move.
Meanwhile ambush itself can learn to stand to have its smart deploy adjusted to take into consideration how many friendlies dying in a given area. And prioritizing the stats of enemies in location and friendly deaths over the number of friendlies.
CPM 0 Secretary
Omni-Soldier, Forum Warrior, Annoying Artist
\\= Advanced Gallente Logistics =// Unlocked
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843 Epidemic
BurgezzE.T.F
General Tso's Alliance
1404
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Posted - 2014.06.09 16:57:00 -
[50] - Quote
Yes, remove them.
Although I like many enjoy running a vehicle in ambush sometimes there truly is no point to it.
Brb, sister needs the TV
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Meee One
BATTLE SURVEY GROUP
Dark Taboo
826
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Posted - 2014.06.09 17:15:00 -
[51] - Quote
SAIRAX SIS wrote:NO that is good idea...but, isnt fairness for Vehicle only users...
>Nyain San
>Against removing vehicles in ambush
Well CCP if you were looking for an endorsement to remove them,you now have it.
But a slight change should be made to "smart deploy",instead of random crappy suicide spawns:
-press "smart deploy"
-get control over the reticule (like dropping an OB)
-spawn within the circle of the selected area
-or-
Rename it "random deploy" or "suicide deploy".
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Cyrus Grevare
warravens
Final Resolution.
222
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Posted - 2014.06.09 17:22:00 -
[52] - Quote
Don't remove them, there's not as much people playing Dust514 as we all would like, alienating some from Ambush will make more quit even if some are just vehicle spammers.
Like some have said,
- Balance AV to make it a viable counter, this includes the swarms launchers which is covered in another thread.
- Fix Smart Deploy or at least give an option to deploy AWAY from the killzone.
- Dropsuit passive scanning should work for vehicles at further ranges, sure my assault suit might have a scan range of 10m, but it should be able to pickup a 200db signature and not need to be next to it. Tank scouts are not cool and no, hearing them doesn't help that much, it's not easy to distinguish a friendly tank from an enemy tank and directional sound could be a lot better, even with a headset it's difficult to know where a tank is coming from.
After this, if still a problem, then remove them.
www.protofits.com - a Dust 514 fitting tool
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Alena Ventrallis
The Neutral Zone
Psychotic Alliance
1277
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Posted - 2014.06.09 18:01:00 -
[53] - Quote
No vehicles in ambush.
2 vehicle limit in ambush OMS.
Normal limit is skirm/dom.
That's what you get!! - DA Rick
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Ku Shala
The Generals
General Tso's Alliance
947
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Posted - 2014.06.09 18:44:00 -
[54] - Quote
+1 to split the modes back into ambush (50clones no infantry) and ambush oms ( 80 clones vehcles and installations)
-¦a+ó a+ú-Æa+äla+ä
Closed Beta ¦¦V¦¦e¦¦t ¦¦ H8R
Caldari Loyalist
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manboar thunder fist
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
50
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Posted - 2014.06.09 18:57:00 -
[55] - Quote
So really what we are saying here is not that vehicles in ambush are a major problem, but the balance of being stomped while you're spawning and the inability to retaliate is the real issue.
Personally i feel with the new improvements to blaster dispersion it is hard to even take down 1 proto forgegunner without risking your tank completely, 2 people with atleast adv av should IMO provide sufficient suppresion to keep a madrugar in red alert until infantry take out the AV, this would allow for more tactical gameplay and a real team based effort in ambush.
In conclusion i feel that if only a timer can be implemented to stop vehicle spawns until 2 minutes into the game this will give players a benchmark for escalated warfare, a quick getaway or an eye in the sky without being wrecked as soon as duna, cough, i mean a random tanker, calls his instastomp madrugar in.
SIMPLE VERSION
1. vehicle/av balance fixed
2. timer implemented to stop vehicle stomping from the beginning
NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES
nerf life
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Ilia Ardent
The Southern Legion
Final Resolution.
1
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Posted - 2014.06.09 19:06:00 -
[56] - Quote
Rather than taking them out completely why don't you have a simple toggle solution in the same area as the game mode toggle?
This way you can choose; vehicle/no vehicle. As well as Proto/no Proto.
This would certainly help new players by eliminating Proto stompers an vehicle farmers across all game modes.
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manboar thunder fist
SAM-MIK
General Tso's Alliance
51
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Posted - 2014.06.09 19:16:00 -
[57] - Quote
Ilia Ardent wrote:Rather than taking them out completely why don't you have a simple toggle solution in the same area as the game mode toggle?
This way you can choose; vehicle/no vehicle. As well as Proto/no Proto.
This would certainly help new players by eliminating Proto stompers an vehicle farmers across all game modes.
welcome to the like ladder +1
NERF SCOUTS, NERF TANKS, NERF AV, NERF ASSAULTS, NERF LOGIS, NERF HEAVIES
nerf life
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Hakyou Brutor
G0DS AM0NG MEN
742
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Posted - 2014.06.09 20:45:00 -
[58] - Quote
Off topic: 6 vs 6 game mode so idiotberries don't screw you over.
"I never pull out" ~Ace Boone, 2014.
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Kevall Longstride
DUST University
Ivy League
1394
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Posted - 2014.06.09 21:34:00 -
[59] - Quote
CCP Rattati wrote:This is sure to be a flammable topic.
Here are a few of our reasons:
1) There is no Vehicle free mode - "Normal" TDM that most fps players are used to in other games
2) Public Ambush is farmed relentlessly by high level vehicle users
3) Many of our maps are simply not optimal for joint infantry - vehicle gameplay
4) Objective-based gameplay breeds more tactical gameplay, making it more likely that vehicles are used to capture and defend Objectives, while it is also more likely that infantry is able to counter vehicles with their own AV weapons.
Please discuss and keep it civil, I am sure there will be a few disappointed vehicle users but we believe this is better for DUST 514 overall.
No one could possibly give an arguement to counter any of that.
However, I'd say that supply depots shouldn't be on the maps to prevent ammo farming. Repairs and ammo replenishment performed by the equipment they bring.
The spawn mechanics MUST first be altered as well and for pity's sake use the smallest maps.
CPM1 Candidate
CEO of DUST University
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ZDub 303
Escrow Removal and Acquisition
Dirt Nap Squad.
3044
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Posted - 2014.06.09 21:50:00 -
[60] - Quote
The answer is yes, remove slayer-focused vehicles from ambush. I can still see a use for transport vehicles, so maybe leave in basic dropships and LAVs and just remove HAVs and ADSs. If that's not possible server side. Easy fix would be to set vehicle limit to zero. It would mean a bit of huffing around for slower suits though, but I think most can agree it would be for the best. I would rather run around on my Amarr Logi with no LAV transport at all than have to deal with HAVs in ambush. |
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