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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 3 post(s)
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 41	Posted - 2014.05.20 21:49:00 - [1] - Quote Seriously are you fu@king kidding? Make missiles faster or give them back their old damage. ADS are ridiculous. What moron made dropshs faster than a missile? Lonewolf till I die
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13557	Posted - 2014.05.20 21:50:00 - [2] - Quote Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
Eko Sol Strange Playings 338	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:02:00 - [3] - Quote It's not often I can take out an ADS with swarms 1vs1 but when I do it's because they get very close. The radius on AV nades is also the magnetic range meaning I use sleek nades since I just need to be within 9 meters and it will magnetise and hit the drop ship. Yes, you can throw them straight up and they will hit. If they hit the nose, not sure why, the armor tank ones go out of control a bit. It's relatively funny. Shoot the Missiles AWAY from the ADS on the first shot and then shoot the swarms while staring at it for the 2nd shot. The idea is to have them hit about the same time. If they relatively close before the second shot then I'll throw nades toward it before shooting the 2nd shot of swarms. Want as much damage as possible at the same time also wrongly referred to is as high Alpha damage. Basically if you get two shots to land at the same time you can fire a third and about 50% of the time it will land and finish off the ADS. This is if you are using proto swarms. A lot of ADS's will take the first swarm hit and keep going for a bit. If you can land two shots at about the same time then they will have been caught off guard. And yes, they can outrun swarms from close up. 50 meters is a bit far but if they are any closer try sleek nades. Also for fun one time I put RE"s on top of a tower where a normal DS landed to kill me. Jumped off and detonated and killed the DS and the proto cal heavy. Again, it's VERY rare I've been able to solo an ADS. Maybe 3% of the time. That being said, if any other swarmer is helping it goes to about 20% depending on how good they are and about or even above 50% if a decent forger is helping. Nothing like your swarms landing right after a breach forge lands or vice versa. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 41	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:02:00 - [4] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Ever seen a heavy bomber or fighter jet survive a hit from a missile idiot? That's about as stupied as saying a scout shouldn't be able to kill a heavy. Aircraft is lightly armored or it wouldn't fly. And I've hit YOUR ADS with a proto forge gun with 3 damage mods at close range and you still had all your armor and flew away... 3-4 indirect hits from your missile and my heavy is dead? Your a good pilot but that's complete b.s. Lonewolf till I die
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 44	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:12:00 - [5] - Quote Maybe heavys should get armor hardeners so I can tank every thing they do for 30 sec and some f'n wings so I can run away as soon as it's depleated. Or I run out of ammo lol. Lonewolf till I die
vlad stoich Heaven's Lost Property 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:13:00 - [6] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. So by your logic, like only a heavy should be able to like kill a heavy? A scout shouldn't be able to kill a heavy? Sounds like brilliant to me. Either the troll is strong in this one, or a biased dropship pilot.
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:15:00 - [7] - Quote +100000 HOWDIDHEKILLME. Please CCP, watch this thread, ADS are even worse than tanks...
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 2095	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:15:00 - [8] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Seriously are you fu@king kidding? Make missiles faster or give them back their old damage. ADS are ridiculous. What moron made dropshs faster than a missile? WAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!! I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 719	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:16:00 - [9] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Don't try and talk sense to these stupid AV'rs, they think they should actually have a purpose, the morons. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 719	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:17:00 - [10] - Quote vlad stoich wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. So by your logic, like only a heavy should be able to like kill a heavy? A scout shouldn't be able to kill a heavy? Sounds like brilliant to me. Either the troll is strong in this one, or a biased dropship pilot. Those two things are not mutually exclusive. Because, that's why.

HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 44	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:19:00 - [11] - Quote vlad stoich wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. So by your logic, like only a heavy should be able to like kill a heavy? A scout shouldn't be able to kill a heavy? Sounds like brilliant to me. Either the troll is strong in this one, or a biased dropship pilot. She/he is a python pilot. Lonewolf till I die
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:29:00 - [12] - Quote Nothing Certain wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Don't try and talk sense to these stupid AV'rs, they think they should actually have a purpose, the morons. AV = Anti-Vehicles. ADS goes faster than a swarm and repair faster than it's dps. So, as the swarm is the only reliable weapon against ADS, it needs to be buffed in order to fulfil its role : being Anti-vehicle.
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 44	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:29:00 - [13] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: +100000 HOWDIDHEKILLME. Please CCP, watch this thread, ADS are even worse than tanks... No sh!t.... I can take out a triple rep maddy but not an ads? It's just stupied. They just attack take 2-3 hits and run and till I run out of ammo. A tank can't get away fast enuf 50% of the time even with nitro, but a dropship can? Seagulls take out jets lol. Lonewolf till I die
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 44	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:33:00 - [14] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Don't try and talk sense to these stupid AV'rs, they think they should actually have a purpose, the morons. AV = Anti-Vehicles. ADS goes faster than a swarm and repair faster than it's dps. So, as the swarm is the only reliable weapon against ADS, it needs to be buffed in order to fulfil its role : being Anti-vehicle. I tried a proto swarm and 5 complex dam mods( yeah I know stacking blah blah).... Splash damage from two hits and I was bounced off the building. Lonewolf till I die
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13558	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:33:00 - [15] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Ever seen a heavy bomber or fighter jet survive a hit from a missile idiot? That's about as stupied as saying a scout shouldn't be able to kill a heavy. Aircraft is lightly armored or it wouldn't fly. And I've hit YOUR ADS with a proto forge gun with 3 damage mods at close range and you still had all your armor and flew away... 3-4 indirect hits from your missile and my heavy is dead? Your a good pilot but that's complete b.s. I'm joking. vlad stoich wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. So by your logic, like only a heavy should be able to like kill a heavy? A scout shouldn't be able to kill a heavy? Sounds like brilliant to me. Either the troll is strong in this one, or a biased dropship pilot. I am the very soul of trolling. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
bhold'the brngr ofLIKE Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:35:00 - [16] - Quote yea nerf dropships so you can go back to crying about the tanks they are destroying
Arkena Wyrnspire Fatal Absolution 13558	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:37:00 - [17] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: vlad stoich wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. So by your logic, like only a heavy should be able to like kill a heavy? A scout shouldn't be able to kill a heavy? Sounds like brilliant to me. Either the troll is strong in this one, or a biased dropship pilot. She/he is a python pilot. No, I'm not. You have long since made your choice. What you make now is a mistake. Cross Atu for CPM1
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 44	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:41:00 - [18] - Quote bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: yea nerf dropships so you can go back to crying about the tanks they are destroying I like tanks...bomb trucks score me 350 points I get a kill and a suicide. Effective at least against tanks not paying attention. Lonewolf till I die
vlad stoich Heaven's Lost Property 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:42:00 - [19] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Don't try and talk sense to these stupid AV'rs, they think they should actually have a purpose, the morons. AV = Anti-Vehicles. ADS goes faster than a swarm and repair faster than it's dps. So, as the swarm is the only reliable weapon against ADS, it needs to be buffed in order to fulfil its role : being Anti-vehicle. You are not making any sense either. Swarms shouldn't bring down a properly fit ADS in one volley or even 2 or 3 if the pilot is smart. I do believe they are too fast and should be slightly lessened. The best AV on ADS is Forges or better yet, Rail tanks. Swarms should have their old ranges given back if ADS maintain there speed boost.
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN 657	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:42:00 - [20] - Quote sighs Bud, once you get that knock back worked on you can have faster swarms, if you are making them fly away you are doing your job. More often then not I get killed by knock back from AV then actual AV damage. You try ADSing mate, see how balanced it is. GÇ£War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.GÇ¥ GÇò George Orwell

Patrick57 Fatal Absolution 7550	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:43:00 - [21] - Quote Just to let you know, it takes a little bit of time for an ADS to reach speeds to get away from Swarms. If they constantly got away from your Swarms that fast, then they're using an Afterburner. Anyway, Swarms are soooo 1.6. New [self proclaimed] CEO of Fatal Absolution
vlad stoich Heaven's Lost Property 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:51:00 - [22] - Quote bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: yea nerf dropships so you can go back to crying about the tanks they are destroying lol another bull$h!t statement. I have only seen a couple pilots dare go after tanks. I would much rather go against a tank with my forge than an ADS. There are some really good pilots, as it requires more skill than tanking. ADS are more than likely attacking infantry because there are no tanks around to blap them outta the sky. I think you have been watching too many of Pyrex's Youtube videos.
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1534	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:52:00 - [23] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. EDIT: To clarify for those people taking this seriously this is not genuinely what I think. This is a joke. Please refrain from going on about how I'm a 'biased dropship pilot'. No worrys, I caught the Taki/Spkr reference lol To the OP, right now is a dark time for AV. I recommend if you are new to invest in rail tanks. I have well over 30,000,000 SP so I have enough invested in AV to scare most vehicles off at least, but if you are as green as I think you are (and by the look of it you're so green you ** algae, going by you bringing this up over 5 months after this mess started) I highly recommend you leave the infantry-based AVing to the vets until you build up your SP. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569** MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN 659	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:56:00 - [24] - Quote Shoots militia swarms from Anti-Armor fit at proto fit ADS "y u no die?!??11?!" Goes on forums and makes post about ADS Here we are now. GÇ£War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.GÇ¥ GÇò George Orwell
bhold'the brngr ofLIKE Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:56:00 - [25] - Quote vlad stoich wrote: bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: yea nerf dropships so you can go back to crying about the tanks they are destroying lol another bull$h!t statement. I have only seen a couple pilots dare go after tanks. I would much rather go against a tank with my forge than an ADS. There are some really good pilots, as it requires more skill than tanking. ADS are more than likely attacking infantry because there are no tanks around to blap them outta the sky. I think you have been watching too many of Pyrex's Youtube videos. if you would like me and my gunner to come hold your hand with DS vs a tank we can arrange it..
vlad stoich Heaven's Lost Property 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 22:58:00 - [26] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: sighs Bud, once you get that knock back worked on you can have faster swarms, if you are making them fly away you are doing your job. More often then not I get killed by knock back from AV then actual AV damage. You try ADSing mate, see how balanced it is. If you had ever seen my flying, you would understand how ridiculous it would be for me to even consider ADS. No thanks. I have seen more pilots crash and burn from the impact from swarms than the damage. I am surprised the Forge gun doesnt do the same. I get a chuckle everytime I see the swarms hit, throws him totally off kilter and into the building or mountains or towers.
vlad stoich Heaven's Lost Property 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:03:00 - [27] - Quote bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: vlad stoich wrote: bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: yea nerf dropships so you can go back to crying about the tanks they are destroying lol another bull$h!t statement. I have only seen a couple pilots dare go after tanks. I would much rather go against a tank with my forge than an ADS. There are some really good pilots, as it requires more skill than tanking. ADS are more than likely attacking infantry because there are no tanks around to blap them outta the sky. I think you have been watching too many of Pyrex's Youtube videos. if you would like me and my gunner to come hold your hand with DS vs a tank we can arrange it.. What's wrong, you can't run your own dropship? The really good pilots are flying, killing AV'ers, killing tanks, other dropships by themselves. It seems to make for more boots on the ground winning battles controlling objectives. You are a sweetheart for wanting to hold hands, but I am old fashioned. Maybe if you wanted to talk first. Baby steps, you know.
Darth-Carbonite GIO Dust2Dust. Top Men. 660	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:04:00 - [28] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Seriously are you fu@king kidding? Make missiles faster or give them back their old damage. ADS are ridiculous. What moron made dropshs faster than a missile? I've played against you quite a few times, and your missiles seem fine to me. Dropships by themselves have an extremely hard time outrunning swarms. However, most pilots use afterburners which are a natural defensive counter to slow moving AV. If you're too impatient for swarms, may I suggest you try the forge gun or a rail tank... Preeminent Scrambler Slayer And Python Pilot
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 924	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:08:00 - [29] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Seriously are you fu@king kidding? Make missiles faster or give them back their old damage. ADS are ridiculous. What moron made dropshs faster than a missile? Word. +1 in so many ways. Missiles go faster than the speed of sound. I'd be happy with more speed myself. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
bhold'the brngr ofLIKE Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:17:00 - [30] - Quote fine buff the speed but know that a rep based gal is still counter tank SLs even with a +50% dmg buff. i also deserve a respec out of the 17mil sp i dumped into dropships upgrades and turrets if you'll have them renerfed into the ground

Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN 660	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:17:00 - [31] - Quote Poonmunch wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Seriously are you fu@king kidding? Make missiles faster or give them back their old damage. ADS are ridiculous. What moron made dropshs faster than a missile? Word. +1 in so many ways. Missiles go faster than the speed of sound. I'd be happy with more speed myself. Munch Yes! Cause this game is so realistic is every other aspect. GÇ£War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.GÇ¥ GÇò George Orwell
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 4462	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:19:00 - [32] - Quote Well didn't they used to be constantly demolished by swarms in the past and they had nowhere to run because the range of swarms were like flies to ***? Swarms are a deterrent on their own. You need to coordinate attacks with other squad members. This game is more about teamwork now as opposed to before, when solo Rambos could carry the whole team on their own. Again, coordinate attacks. You will essentially need to play volleyball with the ADS. One person firing swarms from the other direction while you have another guy on the other side FG the ADS. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu.* Are you OUKH?
bhold'the brngr ofLIKE Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:22:00 - [33] - Quote vlad stoich wrote: bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: vlad stoich wrote: bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: yea nerf dropships so you can go back to crying about the tanks they are destroying lol another bull$h!t statement. I have only seen a couple pilots dare go after tanks. I would much rather go against a tank with my forge than an ADS. There are some really good pilots, as it requires more skill than tanking. ADS are more than likely attacking infantry because there are no tanks around to blap them outta the sky. I think you have been watching too many of Pyrex's Youtube videos. if you would like me and my gunner to come hold your hand with DS vs a tank we can arrange it.. What's wrong, you can't run your own dropship? The really good pilots are flying, killing AV'ers, killing tanks, other dropships by themselves. It seems to make for more boots on the ground winning battles controlling objectives. You are a sweetheart for wanting to hold hands, but I am old fashioned. Maybe if you wanted to talk first. Baby steps, you know. i started flying way before there were ADS.. also the really good pilots and their boys club you seem to be sucking dik to can fuk off..
Hakyou Brutor G0DS AM0NG MEN 661	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:23:00 - [34] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Well didn't they used to be constantly demolished by swarms in the past and they had nowhere to run because the range of swarms were like flies to ****? Swarms are a deterrent on their own. You need to coordinate attacks with other squad members. This game is more about teamwork now as opposed to before, when solo Rambos could carry the whole team on their own. Again, coordinate attacks. You will essentially need to play volleyball with the ADS. One person firing swarms from the other direction while you have another guy on the other side FG the ADS. I don't often agree with you, but I have to agree here. When I have a swarmer and a forger hitting me it's much more likely that I go down. GÇ£War is peace. Freedom is slavery. Ignorance is strength.GÇ¥ GÇò George Orwell
vlad stoich Heaven's Lost Property 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:25:00 - [35] - Quote bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: fine buff the speed but know that a rep based gal is still counter tank SLs even with a +50% dmg buff. i also deserve a respec out of the 17mil sp i dumped into dropships upgrades and turrets if you'll have them renerfed into the ground I wouldn't ask that they be nerfed into the ground. Just a reduction in speed. I don't even use swarms against ADS. I use IAFG, forge. I usually run together with other guys running AV though. Commandos with Proto swarms & rail rifles. That has been fun lately. Tanks popping after 1 or 2 volleys from 3 swarms synced is hilarious. They be like WTF. I think AV is in a pretty good place with the exception of the missing AV grenade.
bhold'the brngr ofLIKE Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:28:00 - [36] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Well didn't they used to be constantly demolished by swarms in the past and they had nowhere to run because the range of swarms were like flies to ****? Swarms are a deterrent on their own. You need to coordinate attacks with other squad members. This game is more about teamwork now as opposed to before, when solo Rambos could carry the whole team on their own. Again, coordinate attacks. You will essentially need to play volleyball with the ADS. One person firing swarms from the other direction while you have another guy on the other side FG the ADS. yes 1-2 shotted by swarms you want your ez mode 1-2 shot SL kill then i demand my OP +500% afterburner back,,,
vlad stoich Heaven's Lost Property 21	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:29:00 - [37] - Quote bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: vlad stoich wrote: bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: vlad stoich wrote: bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: yea nerf dropships so you can go back to crying about the tanks they are destroying lol another bull$h!t statement. I have only seen a couple pilots dare go after tanks. I would much rather go against a tank with my forge than an ADS. There are some really good pilots, as it requires more skill than tanking. ADS are more than likely attacking infantry because there are no tanks around to blap them outta the sky. I think you have been watching too many of Pyrex's Youtube videos. if you would like me and my gunner to come hold your hand with DS vs a tank we can arrange it.. What's wrong, you can't run your own dropship? The really good pilots are flying, killing AV'ers, killing tanks, other dropships by themselves. It seems to make for more boots on the ground winning battles controlling objectives. You are a sweetheart for wanting to hold hands, but I am old fashioned. Maybe if you wanted to talk first. Baby steps, you know. i started flying way before there were ADS.. also the really good pilots and their boys club you seem to be sucking dik to can fuk off.. Awww thats cute. Kool story bro. I told you, I am old fashioned. No suckin on the first date. I can't stand any vehicles. All puzzies sitting in crutches.
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 924	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:33:00 - [38] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: It's not often I can take out an ADS with swarms 1vs1 but when I do it's because they get very close. The radius on AV nades is also the magnetic range meaning I use sleek nades since I just need to be within 9 meters and it will magnetise and hit the drop ship. Yes, you can throw them straight up and they will hit. If they hit the nose, not sure why, the armor tank ones go out of control a bit. It's relatively funny. Shoot the Missiles AWAY from the ADS on the first shot and then shoot the swarms while staring at it for the 2nd shot. The idea is to have them hit about the same time. If they relatively close before the second shot then I'll throw nades toward it before shooting the 2nd shot of swarms. Want as much damage as possible at the same time also wrongly referred to is as high Alpha damage. Basically if you get two shots to land at the same time you can fire a third and about 50% of the time it will land and finish off the ADS. This is if you are using proto swarms. A lot of ADS's will take the first swarm hit and keep going for a bit. If you can land two shots at about the same time then they will have been caught off guard. And yes, they can outrun swarms from close up. 50 meters is a bit far but if they are any closer try sleek nades. Also for fun one time I put RE"s on top of a tower where a normal DS landed to kill me. Jumped off and detonated and killed the DS and the proto cal heavy. Again, it's VERY rare I've been able to solo an ADS. Maybe 3% of the time. That being said, if any other swarmer is helping it goes to about 20% depending on how good they are and about or even above 50% if a decent forger is helping. Nothing like your swarms landing right after a breach forge lands or vice versa. This is extremely helpful. I have newly specced into proto swarms and this is just the sort of thing I need. Thank you very much. On another note: what suits do you use and what mods do you use. I use a Cal commando for the damage boost and faster reload speed. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
bhold'the brngr ofLIKE Edimmu Warfighters Gallente Federation 31	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:34:00 - [39] - Quote Quote: No suckin on the first date. your mom disagrees bro
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 924	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:42:00 - [40] - Quote bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: Quote: No suckin on the first date. your mom disagrees bro That's low, man. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.

Sir Dukey SAM-MIK General Tso's Alliance 885	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:48:00 - [41] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Seriously are you fu@king kidding? Make missiles faster or give them back their old damage. ADS are ridiculous. What moron made dropshs faster than a missile? ADS doesn't out run them, it's just that they reach me 20 minutes later. I got shot down by swarms in my python and forges in my python but my incubus is indestructible healing over 160 armor/s and has 3700 armor. Python are weak, incubus is OP.
Kallas Hallytyr Skullbreakers 440	Posted - 2014.05.20 23:57:00 - [42] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: No sh!t.... I can take out a triple rep maddy but not an ads? It's just stupied. They just attack take 2-3 hits and run and till I run out of ammo. A tank can't get away fast enuf 50% of the time even with nitro, but a dropship can? Seagulls take out jets lol. cough Utter bullshit cough You can solo a triple rep Maddy with swarms and not an ADS? I call serious bull. My single complex heavy rep Incubus out reps a single proto swarm, a triple repped Maddy will just laugh.
Michael Arck Onuoto Uakan Huogaatsu Lokun Listamenn 4464	Posted - 2014.05.21 00:06:00 - [43] - Quote Ha, nice catch. I didn't see that post. Yea that's bull. We have all seen that video or know from in game experience that doesn't work out. Hnolai ki tuul, ti sei oni a tiu. Are you OUKH?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 849	Posted - 2014.05.21 00:50:00 - [44] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Exactly. Because balance. How am I supposed to ~~farm infantry~~ do my job if I have to worry about infantry killing me? * eats chips * Shoot scout with yes... - Ripley Riley
vlad stoich Heaven's Lost Property 22	Posted - 2014.05.21 00:52:00 - [45] - Quote bhold'the brngr ofLIKE wrote: Quote: No suckin on the first date. your mom disagrees bro All that time, and that is all you can come up with? A mom joke? lol weak bro ,,like your drop ship skills. I expected more from such an elite ADS. You sure do like to talk about suckin. You and your gunner must be really tight. GG bro.
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 765	Posted - 2014.05.21 01:06:00 - [46] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Seriously are you fu@king kidding? Make missiles faster or give them back their old damage. ADS are ridiculous. What moron made dropshs faster than a missile? The only way an ADS can out run swarms is with an after burner. Also consider the swarm launchers tracking ability. You can't really dodge swarms, only out run them. So dropships in general need the ability to out run swarms, unless the tracking ability is taken down a few notches or the player has to manually guide the missile volley. Lower tier swarms do need a damage buff to make them relevant. When I get hit by a mlt swarm volley, I just leisurely track the missiles back to the source and terminate it. And I really should not be able to do that. Medium frame EHP is not medium
Doctor Day Glitched Connection 265	Posted - 2014.05.21 01:45:00 - [47] - Quote its not like my Mincommadno with a proto swarm laucher 2 hits tanks 1 hits lav's and takes down Dropships But thats a ** move taking down a ads with a SL ads cost A L O T but if they start getting really annoying shoot that **** down
Sir Snugglz Red Star. EoN. 840	Posted - 2014.05.21 01:48:00 - [48] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Don't try and talk sense to these stupid AV'rs, they think they should actually have a purpose, the morons. AV = Anti-Vehicles. ADS goes faster than a swarm and repair faster than it's dps. So, as the swarm is the only reliable weapon against ADS, it needs to be buffed in order to fulfil its role : being Anti-vehicle. The only reliable weapon? Because the rail turrent and forge gun does nothing to ADS. lol -Pro AFKing LVL 5 -Luck is just one of my skills -Just because I make flying look easy doesn't mean it is
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 360	Posted - 2014.05.21 02:05:00 - [49] - Quote Who flies away from swarms? I chase those bitchs down. Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
danthrax martin Butcher's Nails 72	Posted - 2014.05.21 02:08:00 - [50] - Quote Spartan MK420 wrote: Who flies away from swarms? I chase those bitchs down. Yes you do, i believe you've nailed my galmando more than a few times Fatty Fat Fat gk.0 - HMG / Duvolle Noob DS Ferryman

Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1267	Posted - 2014.05.21 02:24:00 - [51] - Quote I am and ads pilot, I can take out an ads with milita swarms if I wanted to. Pro tip, don't just lock and shoot as soon as you see it. Dropship pilots are pretty blind. Op I believe you are an uneducated av player, you like to say your av but you think you should be able to just lock and fire and bring ships down because your av. If you had done your research on dropships and how they operate I am 100% sure you would have no problem fighting an ads. Know thy enemy and such. Also afterburners, dropships can't out run swarms without them. Consider them pur countermeasures.
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 46	Posted - 2014.05.21 04:58:00 - [52] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: I am and ads pilot, I can take out an ads with milita swarms if I wanted to. Pro tip, don't just lock and shoot as soon as you see it. Dropship pilots are pretty blind. Op I believe you are an uneducated av player, you like to say your av but you think you should be able to just lock and fire and bring ships down because your av. If you had done your research on dropships and how they operate I am 100% sure you would have no problem fighting an ads. Know thy enemy and such. Also afterburners, dropships can't out run swarms without them. Consider them pur countermeasures. Milita? B.S. Only a compleat moron would get destroyed by that. I have proto swarms prof 5 with 5 damage mods and still had ads's survive and kill me while I reloaded. Lonewolf till I die
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 46	Posted - 2014.05.21 05:18:00 - [53] - Quote Also proto forge prof 5 3 complex dam mods if I miss even one shot I'm dead during reload if the pilot is worth a ****. Some Mexican pilot proved that to me one day, even sent mail after the round to laugh about it. We fought all day it was fun as he'll but he killed me at least 5 times to each time I got him. It's completely one sided. Forge gun is way better than swarms but like I said one missed shot and I'm dead. Lonewolf till I die
Kosakai Eternal Beings Proficiency V. 62	Posted - 2014.05.21 06:35:00 - [54] - Quote if you think swarms cant kill ADS you never fly with ADS try to fly python.... swarms is F* nightmare!! PROUD MINMATAR <3** -- IN RUST IS TRUST FORGE GUN LOVER -- TANK HUNTER SCAN ATTEMPT PREVENTED .......
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 463	Posted - 2014.05.21 07:59:00 - [55] - Quote I want ADS to be awesome to fly and to be an effective asset on the battlefield, but my experiences of them recently have been really frustrating; they're just far too tanky. Their repping power is just crazy, and many pilots will happily engage multiple swarmers knowing that they can soak up the damage whilst they merrily pound the floor with missiles. Nothing short of a forge or rail tank can remove them reliably now, and I'm not sure if that's the balance we're after. Swarms could do with a real role development: right now they're mid-range AV deterrents, and as such aren't worth the time for anyone who isn't a commando. I'd like to see the effective range be reduced further, but have the tracking, missile velocity and damage increased. Make them short-range hard counters to light vehicles and I'll be happier. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8749	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:09:00 - [56] - Quote Hakyou Brutor wrote: sighs Bud, once you get that knock back worked on you can have faster swarms, if you are making them fly away you are doing your job. More often then not I get killed by knock back from AV then actual AV damage. Yeah. no. If you want the knock-back reduced, you have to nerf Small Missile Turrets. Otherwise, it would be impossible for Swarm Launcher users to engage the Assault Dropship without the knock-back, because a Missile can 2HK them. The job of Anti-Vehicle weapons is to kill vehicles. I've yet to see CCP state that AV should only suppress them, and even suggesting that they should only be suppressed is a problem because: If an Assault Dropship pilot can only be suppressed, he's not actually risking anything If a role makes it to where you won't die, why play as any other role? Nobody would spend SP into an AV weapon if they cannot kill targets with it. Just look at the PLC for reference. Not to mention, it's possible to tilt the Assault Dropship to compensate for the knock-back effect, meaning it's not even a problem for those who actually know what they're doing. Hakyou Brutor wrote: You try ADSing mate, see how balanced it is. I've already done so. Still have yet to die. Even 80GJ Railguns aren't a problem because I can just warp to the flight ceiling when I get hit, it's not even difficult. I'm not even that good with ADSs either. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7701	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:29:00 - [57] - Quote This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 926	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:33:00 - [58] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Make a second type of swarmer that does the things you list (I think that is what you mean). Let us decide which variant we use. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
shaman oga Nexus Balusa Horizon 2156	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:34:00 - [59] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. It's a good idea, but... if you buff AV you need to eliminate vehicle to vehicle collision damage, then there will be no more jihad jeeps and no more (i hate them more than anyone else) dropship rammers. PSN: ogamega I'm here to bla bla bla...
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14372	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:34:00 - [60] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Swarms have needed a speed buff for forever, and im still pretty sure their damage isnt fully applying to dropships. Anything lower than maxed out, damage modded swarms barely even begin to tickle my incubus :/ granted if you made them faster and shoot farther that may be ok, since much more of the field becomes a danger, but as is, swarms are certainly a joke


CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7702	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:48:00 - [61] - Quote DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Swarms have needed a speed buff for forever, and im still pretty sure their damage isnt fully applying to dropships. Anything lower than maxed out, damage modded swarms barely even begin to tickle my incubus :/ granted if you made them faster and shoot farther that may be ok, since much more of the field becomes a danger, but as is, swarms are certainly a joke Like I said, I think we need to look at the base damage numbers anyway, and these new variants would be based off the new base damage numbers, not current damage numbers. So think a lower damage version of a balanced swarm launcher with faster and longer range missiles. Maybe a bigger explosion radius and more splash damage would help with hitting dropships? CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4239	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:51:00 - [62] - Quote How about we introduce a swarm launcher that explodes in the player's hand as punishment for not doing their goddamn job and taking the city? I think it would go a long way in teaching new players their proper role as infantry peasants. You can even make it part of the NPE!

CCP Logibro C C P C C P Alliance 7702	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:54:00 - [63] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: How about we introduce a swarm launcher that explodes in the player's hand as punishment for not doing their goddamn job and taking the city? I think it would go a long way in teaching new players their proper role as infantry peasants. You can even make it part of the NPE! We call that the Locus Grenade when people forget to throw it. CCP Logibro // Patron Saint of Logistics // Distributor of Nanites (a¦á_a¦á)

Supacharjed Xer Cloud Consortium 95	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:58:00 - [64] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. So, a more 'KInetic damage" based swarm launcher as opposed to the more "Explosive Damage" one we have now? Diehard Commandbro. Part Time Ninja Turtle Full Time Badass.
danie braz Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 32	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:58:00 - [65] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Swarms have needed a speed buff for forever, and im still pretty sure their damage isnt fully applying to dropships. Anything lower than maxed out, damage modded swarms barely even begin to tickle my incubus :/ granted if you made them faster and shoot farther that may be ok, since much more of the field becomes a danger, but as is, swarms are certainly a joke Like I said, I think we need to look at the base damage numbers anyway, and these new variants would be based off the new base damage numbers, not current damage numbers. So think a lower damage version of a balanced swarm launcher with faster and longer range missiles. Maybe a bigger explosion radius and more splash damage would help with hitting dropships? The explosion from one swarm should at least knock ads off balance. That might just push pilots away. It shouldnt be instakills but they shouldnt be immortals either.
Himiko Kuronaga Fatal Absolution General Tso's Alliance 4240	Posted - 2014.05.21 11:59:00 - [66] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Himiko Kuronaga wrote: How about we introduce a swarm launcher that explodes in the player's hand as punishment for not doing their goddamn job and taking the city? I think it would go a long way in teaching new players their proper role as infantry peasants. You can even make it part of the NPE! We call that the Locus Grenade when people forget to throw it. Does surprisingly less damage than it should
Kierkegaard Soren Forsaken Immortals Top Men. 463	Posted - 2014.05.21 12:00:00 - [67] - Quote Honestly, I would rather have it the other way around; very short range, high velocity, great damage. Essentially, a high risk/decent reward weapon that forces infantry to get. Lose to tanks in order to hurt them and forces ADS to think twice about squatting on top of uplinks with impunity. Dedicated Commando. "He who can destroy a thing, controls a thing." -Paul Atreides.
DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14372	Posted - 2014.05.21 12:05:00 - [68] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Swarms have needed a speed buff for forever, and im still pretty sure their damage isnt fully applying to dropships. Anything lower than maxed out, damage modded swarms barely even begin to tickle my incubus :/ granted if you made them faster and shoot farther that may be ok, since much more of the field becomes a danger, but as is, swarms are certainly a joke Like I said, I think we need to look at the base damage numbers anyway, and these new variants would be based off the new base damage numbers, not current damage numbers. So think a lower damage version of a balanced swarm launcher with faster and longer range missiles. Maybe a bigger explosion radius and more splash damage would help with hitting dropships? I honestly dont know how splash would effect things, the problem to me has always been that as soon as you get moving, you only get hit by the missiles one at a time. That often makes it so swarms cant even halt the passive regen on a python. Just making them move faster and making sure they all connect almost at once would probably go a long way in making them more threatening.
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1239	Posted - 2014.05.21 12:35:00 - [69] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. That would work well in Legion I'd imagine. Now if only we could fix Dust swarms... I think I'm over Dust now...
killian178 S.e.V.e.N. General Tso's Alliance 18	Posted - 2014.05.21 12:40:00 - [70] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. As a ADS pilot since inception, I like this. There kinda easy to take down with 3-4 decent AVers, but 2 good ones can do the job just fine, swarms definitely need the love hammer, more range and av needs a damage boost across the board.

Lanius Pulvis Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 272	Posted - 2014.05.21 12:40:00 - [71] - Quote Speed and damage application are the 2 biggest issues with them right now. Not new, just new to you.
SponkSponkSponk The Southern Legion Final Resolution. 807	Posted - 2014.05.21 13:12:00 - [72] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. I am all for variants that are specialised in taking out light vehicles but with reduced effectiveness vs heavy vehicles. After all, that's the kind of thing swarms are best at, since (in theory) the homing allows for better damage application vs agile targets. It would probably need faster lock time as well; I find the current lock times intolerable vs LAVs as it is. Dust/Eve transfers
Bethhy Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 1919	Posted - 2014.05.21 13:16:00 - [73] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. EDIT: To clarify for those people taking this seriously this is not genuinely what I think. This is a joke. Please refrain from going on about how I'm a 'biased dropship pilot'. He does have a point though... How does a dropship outrun a missile? And they can. As far as swarms vs dropship... Have you seen what Stingers do to Aerial Vehicles? Even what a cheap Chinese made FN-6 can do? Dropships and the way they actually work in DUST is an assbackwards concept from their intention. They are offensive based platforms instead of defensive... They are about hitting and running rather then staying power.... Its sad.
Gelhad Thremyr Quebec United 290	Posted - 2014.05.21 13:20:00 - [74] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. If you do that please make at least 2 variants of ads like tanks, first and foremost the python gets lots of knockback not only from swarms but from touching anything... Mind the dropship value vs swarm and also the fact that how we see our targets like very minuscule from the dropship if not full close to target, if we cannot be within 75 m of target in an ads we shoot blind, in fact there is nothing in dust that is more blind shoot than ads missiles, see judge radamanthus swarm video for better explenations.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 221	Posted - 2014.05.21 13:31:00 - [75] - Quote Gelhad Thremyr wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. If you do that please make at least 2 variants of ads like tanks, first and foremost the python gets lots of knockback not only from swarms but from touching anything... Mind the dropship value vs swarm and also the fact that how we see our targets like very minuscule from the dropship if not full close to target, if we cannot be within 75 m of target in an ads we shoot blind, in fact there is nothing in dust that is more blind shoot than ads missiles, see judge radamanthus swarm video for better explenations. I'd rather like it if an ADS got low enough if we could hit the circle button to jump into the ADS and literally beat the driver to death or to slit their throat, whichever works, maybe you could make it an animation where the heavy jumps into the ADS, screaming ensues then you see the pilot being thrown out through the window. You know something completely brutal and God of War like. If you want you can also see Judge Radamanthus explenation on how horribly balanced swarm missles are vs ADS and how the values for the ADS armor match the shield values of 55% along with how easy it is for ADS to become nearly if not fully invincible to even 3 swarmers hitting an ADS all at the same time, including one proto swarmer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7hOEdNgXE here's the link so you can watch, now the values of hardeners have been changed some, but not by much and ADS are still a major problem.
Grimmiers 558	Posted - 2014.05.21 13:48:00 - [76] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: Like I said, I think we need to look at the base damage numbers anyway, and these new variants would be based off the new base damage numbers, not current damage numbers. So think a lower damage version of a balanced swarm launcher with faster and longer range missiles. Maybe a bigger explosion radius and more splash damage would help with hitting dropships? The efficiency rating is lower for dropships so it's doing like 60% damage. I have an easier time throwing a few av grenades at low flying dropships because they do full damage.
SteelDark Knight Ancient Exiles. General Tso's Alliance 467	Posted - 2014.05.21 13:55:00 - [77] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. If you make a range modification I just hope that the bug were swarms fired from more than 250 meters are invisible to the target is fixed.
steadyhand amarr shadows of 514 3101	Posted - 2014.05.21 14:04:00 - [78] - Quote Quick post swarms are for LAV and dropships And PC and forge for tanks (PC being weaker due to mobility) Just like CC RR is for amour SCR and AR for shields "i dont care about you or your goals, just show me the dam isk" winner of EU squad cup GOGO power rangers
vlad stoich Heaven's Lost Property 27	Posted - 2014.05.21 14:17:00 - [79] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. That would work well in Legion I'd imagine. Now if only we could fix Dust swarms... No need to be a d!ck all the time. The man was talking about fixing something for DUST. You sound like a 15 yr old lil high school boy that just got dumped for the first time. Get over it. You are so angry, yet you are still playing and posting.
buzzzzzzz killllllllll TRA1LBLAZERS 546	Posted - 2014.05.21 14:23:00 - [80] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Swarms have needed a speed buff for forever, and im still pretty sure their damage isnt fully applying to dropships. Anything lower than maxed out, damage modded swarms barely even begin to tickle my incubus :/ granted if you made them faster and shoot farther that may be ok, since much more of the field becomes a danger, but as is, swarms are certainly a joke Like I said, I think we need to look at the base damage numbers anyway, and these new variants would be based off the new base damage numbers, not current damage numbers. So think a lower damage version of a balanced swarm launcher with faster and longer range missiles. Maybe a bigger explosion radius and more splash damage would help with hitting dropships? well first you have to fix the bug(?) that gives swarms only 55% damage vs dropships. this takes away about half their damage, so its kind of a big thing you need to fix Dedicated heavy through the hard times, still supporter of A FULL 1.8 respec and MOAR HEAVY WEAPONS!

Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 87	Posted - 2014.05.21 14:27:00 - [81] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Ever seen a heavy bomber or fighter jet survive a hit from a missile idiot? That's about as stupied as saying a scout shouldn't be able to kill a heavy. Aircraft is lightly armored or it wouldn't fly. And I've hit YOUR ADS with a proto forge gun with 3 damage mods at close range and you still had all your armor and flew away... 3-4 indirect hits from your missile and my heavy is dead? Your a good pilot but that's complete b.s. 3-4 indirect hits... when the Sentinel skill reduces splash damage by 25% at level 5... please don't use false numbers. Also, why were you in the open long enough to get shot and killed by him? It's understandable if you get killed by infantry when trying to kill him, but you should really try to be more aware of your surroundings. Also, pro tip, being a pilot myself helps considerably in knowing how a ADS functions and how they should be dealt with. Know thy enemy... To stand in the open long enough to get killed by 3-4 missiles requires about 2-3 seconds per missile to just fire, unless that pilot was 1) Using a Python 2) Has the Python skill maxed out, which increased missile rate of fire, which isn't OP, as it requires the same amount of sp as a proto suit (x8 skill multiplier). Think I need to start a AV school, but considering the state of Dust right now... yea.
vlad stoich Heaven's Lost Property 27	Posted - 2014.05.21 14:42:00 - [82] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Ever seen a heavy bomber or fighter jet survive a hit from a missile idiot? That's about as stupied as saying a scout shouldn't be able to kill a heavy. Aircraft is lightly armored or it wouldn't fly. And I've hit YOUR ADS with a proto forge gun with 3 damage mods at close range and you still had all your armor and flew away... 3-4 indirect hits from your missile and my heavy is dead? Your a good pilot but that's complete b.s. 3-4 indirect hits... when the Sentinel skill reduces splash damage by 25% at level 5... please don't use false numbers. Also, why were you in the open long enough to get shot and killed by him? It's understandable if you get killed by infantry when trying to kill him, but you should really try to be more aware of your surroundings. Also, pro tip, being a pilot myself helps considerably in knowing how a ADS functions and how they should be dealt with. Know thy enemy... To stand in the open long enough to get killed by 3-4 missiles requires about 2-3 seconds per missile to just fire, unless that pilot was 1) Using a Python 2) Has the Python skill maxed out, which increased missile rate of fire, which isn't OP, as it requires the same amount of sp as a proto suit (x8 skill multiplier). Think I need to start a AV school, but considering the state of Dust right now... yea. ^ \| \| \| \| Good idea though. I would attend. I can barely get a DS off the ground before it explodes.
Appia Vibbia Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 2472	Posted - 2014.05.21 14:52:00 - [83] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Yes and No. If you were to do this, then the new swarms should be the current damage level and the slow-moving close-range swarms need the damage to actually hurt tanks Appia Vibbia for CPM1 AppiaVibbia(at)gmail(dot)com AKA Nappia, AKA Mathppia
Driftward Subdreddit Test Alliance Please Ignore 968	Posted - 2014.05.21 15:52:00 - [84] - Quote Supacharjed wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. So, a more 'KInetic damage" based swarm launcher as opposed to the more "Explosive Damage" one we have now? This would be interesting. Would the "kinetic" variant cause greater disorientation to the dropship than the explosive variant or the other way around? (would the dropship get pushed around more / lose control)
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 87	Posted - 2014.05.21 16:06:00 - [85] - Quote Driftward wrote: Supacharjed wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. So, a more 'KInetic damage" based swarm launcher as opposed to the more "Explosive Damage" one we have now? This would be interesting. Would the "kinetic" variant cause greater disorientation to the dropship than the explosive variant or the other way around? (would the dropship get pushed around more / lose control) As swarms can already flip over Pythons/Myrons/Vipers, although somewhat rare... no thank you. I have no issue's with there being varients for the swarm launcher, but more force is not necessary...
Ryme Intrinseca The Rainbow Effect 1232	Posted - 2014.05.21 16:15:00 - [86] - Quote shaman oga wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. It's a good idea, but... if you buff AV you need to eliminate vehicle to vehicle collision damage, then there will be no more jihad jeeps and no more (i hate them more than anyone else) dropship rammers. There's no reason why two big bits of metal smashing into each other wouldn't cause damage.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 87	Posted - 2014.05.21 16:21:00 - [87] - Quote Ryme Intrinseca wrote: shaman oga wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. It's a good idea, but... if you buff AV you need to eliminate vehicle to vehicle collision damage, then there will be no more jihad jeeps and no more (i hate them more than anyone else) dropship rammers. There's no reason why two big bits of metal smashing into each other wouldn't cause damage. There's no reason why it shouldn't cause damage, but the amount it does is game breaking when regarding dropships. It needs to be toned down considerably.
ADAM-OF-EVE Dead Man's Game 1539	Posted - 2014.05.21 16:51:00 - [88] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. swarms that behave more like starstreak would be good. a single missile that releases its volley mid flight. it tracks the target accurately and then dumb fires its payload at a set distance from the target to reduce chances of missing keep ranges as they are now but let the missile do the extra work. if the DS pilot lets you lock them then they should take damage http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-Hue3uZZ6H9Q/T6bKkMui-CI/AAAAAAAAAeU/tfcc5ohh2Ro/s640/starstreak-missile.jpg All Hail Legion
Foundation Seldon Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 671	Posted - 2014.05.21 17:00:00 - [89] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. I was thinking more along the lines of a tweaked operation skill bonus, 10% bonus to projectile speed per level or something along those lines.
Izlare Lenix Arrogance. Dark Taboo 584	Posted - 2014.05.21 17:08:00 - [90] - Quote I have a proto fit incubus and yes militia av is a joke, but it's militia. If any two proto AVers coordinate an attack on me it often results in the destruction of my ads and that is how it should be. Two timed forge hits and I'm down, a forge and proto swarms good chance they will kill me especially if I get slammed into a building, one triple damage rail tank I'm down, two normal rail tanks I'm down. And lets not forget a cheap mlt dropship can easily smash a 510k ADS right out off the sky. And then there is the greatest threat for all dropship pilots...FUKIN RDVS!!!!!!! Gun control is not about guns...it's about control. The only way to ensure freedom is by having the means to defend it.

Gemini Cuspid Amarr Templars Amarr Empire 68	Posted - 2014.05.21 17:12:00 - [91] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. The sh*t is frankly already beyond the control of fixing without knowing how many intangibles you create. After the initial patch on swarms the idea was to create a way to ensure a specific area on the map could be protected without the swarms going from one end of the map to the other. However current vehicle mods (all vehicles really) allow them a degree of invulnerability; it's not the case that a proto swarm SHOULD take a proto vehicle but rather using proto swarms aren't enough without a forgegun AND another swarm user AND a vehicle staying in relative proximity for a while. When you start needing to use 20% of y our force to "try" to have a slight chance of taking any vehicle down then really you should have been scratching your heads long ago asking why such a scenario is possible. With a maddy you have the slight chance of praying proximity mines work [and these mines suck so mine with pisspoor range that I'm better off using a packed vehicle grenade] but overall it's tripple hardeners just make it impossible to kill in most situations without the kamikaze vehicles. Pythons have the speed advantage and terrain advantage; fly high enough and you're guaranteed that even installations can't hit you. They're also already tough enough to kill with the rate it can repair and move around; you can do a full repair, make a run and drop some missiles all the while heading to the other side to prep another run and not a single swarm launcher could hit you either but loosing lock or outrunning. And then even if you fix base damage, ranges and whatnot the invincible vehicle pilots will whine that their stuff is broken...
Stefan Stahl Seituoda Taskforce Command 524	Posted - 2014.05.21 17:59:00 - [92] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: ... think a [...] balanced swarm launcher ... Now that's a thought I didn't have in a long time... Anyway, is there any chance to fix the scaling on Swarm Launchers? PRO swarm launchers do 50% more damage than STD swarm launchers. I can think of no scenario in which both the STD and PRO variants are useful and neither is overpowered. Personally I think the Swarm Launcher should focus on consistent long-range damage application. We already have a forge gun for that high-alpha damage. Let's give the Swarm Launcher a large range, short lock on time, many shots per clip and comparatively low DPS. Then also reinstate dumb firing with low-damage high-radius splash so you get a competent guided AV weapon and a long-range area denial weapon. It is a pet peeve of mine to insist that all AV weapons must have some anti-infantry capabilities. Otherwise people will not carry AV weapons unless they have an HAV right in their face.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2074	Posted - 2014.05.21 18:20:00 - [93] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Whatever you do.. don't do any of this. I'll show you why. Give me a day Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
ResistanceGTA D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1239	Posted - 2014.05.21 18:26:00 - [94] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Whatever you do.. don't do any of this. I'll show you why. Give me a day He has spoken. :) Good, your YT channel had been quiet. I think I'm over Dust now...
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2074	Posted - 2014.05.21 18:34:00 - [95] - Quote ResistanceGTA wrote: He has spoken. :) Good, your YT channel had been quiet. I have even given away my most secret ADS maneuver that makes swarms detonate early in the video Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Eko Sol Strange Playings 347	Posted - 2014.05.21 19:03:00 - [96] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: DUST Fiend wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Swarms have needed a speed buff for forever, and im still pretty sure their damage isnt fully applying to dropships. Anything lower than maxed out, damage modded swarms barely even begin to tickle my incubus :/ granted if you made them faster and shoot farther that may be ok, since much more of the field becomes a danger, but as is, swarms are certainly a joke Like I said, I think we need to look at the base damage numbers anyway, and these new variants would be based off the new base damage numbers, not current damage numbers. So think a lower damage version of a balanced swarm launcher with faster and longer range missiles. Maybe a bigger explosion radius and more splash damage would help with hitting dropships? lol PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Cyrus Militani Leon Conglomerate 73	Posted - 2014.05.21 19:09:00 - [97] - Quote Honestly I feel like the proto swarms a joke. 1 more missile? That's it? That might be good if you could get every missile to hit. Perhaps each level of swarm should be given more range. Tanks are hard to deal with sometimes, but at least you have proximity mines, remote explosives, and AV grenades. All of these items are useless against a drop ship, unless they get close enough. I've been in several Dom matches with several raspberry ADS and there really isn't much you can do about it, even if our entire squad went swarms. I feel like I can do more with my Militia Forge Gun than my advanced swarm.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 721	Posted - 2014.05.21 19:22:00 - [98] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. A Breach and Assault version sort of? I like the idea of diversity so it is interesting. For other posters A/V UNITED is a channel for players who want to run AV. If we can get enough players we can start running regular squads. It has been a little hit and miss for me being able to find squadmates but when I have it has been fun. Because, that's why.
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1268	Posted - 2014.05.21 19:29:00 - [99] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: I am and ads pilot, I can take out an ads with milita swarms if I wanted to. Pro tip, don't just lock and shoot as soon as you see it. Dropship pilots are pretty blind. Op I believe you are an uneducated av player, you like to say your av but you think you should be able to just lock and fire and bring ships down because your av. If you had done your research on dropships and how they operate I am 100% sure you would have no problem fighting an ads. Know thy enemy and such. Also afterburners, dropships can't out run swarms without them. Consider them pur countermeasures. Milita? B.S. Only a compleat moron would get destroyed by that. I have proto swarms prof 5 with 5 damage mods and still had ads's survive and kill me while I reloaded. Your mistake is thinking that I am only dealing damage with the milita swarm to down it.
Maximus Stryker Who Are Those Guys 981	Posted - 2014.05.21 19:37:00 - [100] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Dare I say ... brilliant Think of it like AV nades: - Long range + Least damage (Sleek) - Medium range + Medium damage (Regular) - Short range + Most damage (Packed) If you cannot add new AV weapons (racial AV weapons) than the next best thing is to modify current AV to allow for various types of functionality laid out above... Best Idea For Legion

DUST Fiend Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 14379	Posted - 2014.05.21 19:46:00 - [101] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Whatever you do.. don't do any of this. I'll show you why. Give me a day I domt know, I stil never agreed with your proposed railgun nerf, as rangenwas never the problem, total damagenwas the problem. At least legion is apparently bringing falloff damage for rails, thank god. But, ill reserve judgement till imsee the video
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1268	Posted - 2014.05.21 19:47:00 - [102] - Quote Atiim wrote: The job of Anti-Vehicle weapons is to kill vehicles. I've yet to see CCP state that AV should only suppress them, and even suggesting that they should only be suppressed is a problem because: If an Assault Dropship pilot can only be suppressed, he's not actually risking anything If a role makes it to where you won't die, why play as any other role? Nobody would spend SP into an AV weapon if they cannot kill targets with it. Just look at the PLC for reference. Not to mention, it's possible to tilt the Assault Dropship to compensate for the knock-back effect, meaning it's not even a problem for those who actually know what they're doing. Hakyou Brutor wrote: You try ADSing mate, see how balanced it is. I've already done so. Still have yet to die. Even 80GJ Railguns aren't a problem because I can just warp to the flight ceiling when I get hit, it's not even difficult. I'm not even that good with ADSs either. First of all I have to see you fly atiim I'm going to hit you up so you can show me your "skills" the assault dropship can be shot down, most dropship pilots leave the danger zone if they are at risk of being downed. However you cannot always escape. ever had an rdv smack into you? Or a dropship suicide into you? Or a friendly tank ram you? Or a null cannon missile hit you? Or an ai missile turret flip you upsidedown from across the map? Or have something render at the last second when you can't avoid it? Or blown up a turret and suddenly have your ship explode? Or even just have the rdv drop your ship from too high? Or had a rail tank see it being brought down and pop it as the rdv tries to figure out how to deploy it? Been knocked into any building? Suddenly hit by 2 forge guns that didn't even render? Landing gear taps something and shuts off your engines in a combat zone? Lag causes you to crash? Get shot down and try to bail out only to instantly commit suicide? Engine fin gets caught and flips you over? Yeah......dropship pilots NEVER die! even if you make it to the ground your out two games worth of isk so lol. I have a friend that uses the PLC to kill tanks, its pretty awesome to watch. I still get shot down by swarms and forge gunners who know what they are doing. If they couldn't kill me then I might agree with you.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 347	Posted - 2014.05.21 20:03:00 - [103] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Atiim wrote: The job of Anti-Vehicle weapons is to kill vehicles. I've yet to see CCP state that AV should only suppress them, and even suggesting that they should only be suppressed is a problem because: If an Assault Dropship pilot can only be suppressed, he's not actually risking anything If a role makes it to where you won't die, why play as any other role? Nobody would spend SP into an AV weapon if they cannot kill targets with it. Just look at the PLC for reference. Not to mention, it's possible to tilt the Assault Dropship to compensate for the knock-back effect, meaning it's not even a problem for those who actually know what they're doing. Hakyou Brutor wrote: You try ADSing mate, see how balanced it is. I've already done so. Still have yet to die. Even 80GJ Railguns aren't a problem because I can just warp to the flight ceiling when I get hit, it's not even difficult. I'm not even that good with ADSs either. First of all I have to see you fly atiim I'm going to hit you up so you can show me your "skills" the assault dropship can be shot down, most dropship pilots leave the danger zone if they are at risk of being downed. However you cannot always escape. ever had an rdv smack into you? Or a dropship suicide into you? Or a friendly tank ram you? Or a null cannon missile hit you? Or an ai missile turret flip you upsidedown from across the map? Or have something render at the last second when you can't avoid it? Or blown up a turret and suddenly have your ship explode? Or even just have the rdv drop your ship from too high? Or had a rail tank see it being brought down and pop it as the rdv tries to figure out how to deploy it? Been knocked into any building? Suddenly hit by 2 forge guns that didn't even render? Landing gear taps something and shuts off your engines in a combat zone? Lag causes you to crash? Get shot down and try to bail out only to instantly commit suicide? Engine fin gets caught and flips you over? Yeah......dropship pilots NEVER die! even if you make it to the ground your out two games worth of isk so lol. I have a friend that uses the PLC to kill tanks, its pretty awesome to watch. I still get shot down by swarms and forge gunners who know what they are doing. If they couldn't kill me then I might agree with you. There is no way to reason with Atiim. I've talked with numerous players and Atiim has, since a little after beta, complained about AV from an infantry perspective. 1.6 was broken as hell and one person in particular told me he/she still complained about AV imbalances for more favor of infantry. Not to mention that suppressing a vehicle is completely valid AV tactic. the "A" stands for "Anti" not KV for Kill Vehicle weapons. And I agree 100% there is a danger zone for ADS's. In that zone swarms can take them out. I think there is a legitimate argument for a speed increase of swarm missiles. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Lynn Beck Heaven's Lost Property 1676	Posted - 2014.05.21 20:09:00 - [104] - Quote Sequal Rise wrote: Nothing Certain wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Don't try and talk sense to these stupid AV'rs, they think they should actually have a purpose, the morons. AV = Anti-Vehicles. ADS goes faster than a swarm and repair faster than it's dps. So, as the swarm is the only reliable weapon against ADS, it needs to be buffed in order to fulfil its role : being Anti-vehicle. ... Or remove the 43% resists that are INNATE to Incubuses... Seriously, a triple rep maddy is easier to kill than a single rep incubus.(12 volleys for Maddy, about 300+ for incubus) General John Ripper Like ALL the things!!!
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3112	Posted - 2014.05.21 20:09:00 - [105] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Useless. Armor dropships take allmost no damage from swarms. The efficency rating is still 59% against armor. The python takes proper damage but not the incubus or any other armor tanked dropship. Fix that first before you screw around with swarms.
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8753	Posted - 2014.05.21 20:13:00 - [106] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: [...] 1.6 was broken as hell and one person in particular told me he/she still complained about AV imbalances for more favor of infantry. [...] Never once have I called for an AV Buff / Vehicle Nerf before Uprising 1.7; in fact, I was one of the few AVers who were actually calling for an HAV Buff. Should I go on a limb and assume that this person doesn't exist, and that you simply stated that in an attempt to hold credibility with your statement? HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
RYN0CER0S Rise Of Old Dudes 355	Posted - 2014.05.21 20:24:00 - [107] - Quote Buff projectile speeds. AVers have been calling for this 1 simple fix since before Uprising. Fix that, then we can talk nerf/buff. 1 simple thing, FFS. PSN: The_Rynoceros Destiny = Biomass Console Master Race
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 51	Posted - 2014.05.21 21:28:00 - [108] - Quote Judge's video explains it all ... An exceptional pilot asking for an av buff.. Priceless ;) Lonewolf till I die
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 766	Posted - 2014.05.21 22:21:00 - [109] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Gelhad Thremyr wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. If you do that please make at least 2 variants of ads like tanks, first and foremost the python gets lots of knockback not only from swarms but from touching anything... Mind the dropship value vs swarm and also the fact that how we see our targets like very minuscule from the dropship if not full close to target, if we cannot be within 75 m of target in an ads we shoot blind, in fact there is nothing in dust that is more blind shoot than ads missiles, see judge radamanthus swarm video for better explenations. I'd rather like it if an ADS got low enough if we could hit the circle button to jump into the ADS and literally beat the driver to death or to slit their throat, whichever works, maybe you could make it an animation where the heavy jumps into the ADS, screaming ensues then you see the pilot being thrown out through the window. You know something completely brutal and God of War like. If you want you can also see Judge Radamanthus explenation on how horribly balanced swarm missles are vs ADS and how the values for the ADS armor match the shield values of 55% along with how easy it is for ADS to become nearly if not fully invincible to even 3 swarmers hitting an ADS all at the same time, including one proto swarmer. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ls7hOEdNgXE here's the link so you can watch, now the values of hardeners have been changed some, but not by much and ADS are still a major problem. Lol, the hate you have for ADS pilots. But why only have the ability to latch onto a vehicle and kill the pilot for ADS? Ask for it for all vehicles. Equality for all, man! medomai grey now uses his serious voice The Judge video you are referencing is out-dated and covered tanking with hardeners. Hardeners have since received a nerf. Not that I'm say swarms don't need a buff, lower tier swarms do need a damage buff. Medium frame EHP is not medium
Zirzo Valcyn Gunners Acadamy 526	Posted - 2014.05.21 22:32:00 - [110] - Quote it sux the dev wants to rebuff an auto locking swarm but do nothing for the PLC which actually requires some skill to use.. u can ban the troll out of the forums but u can't ban the forums out of the troll. forum warrior .189

Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 722	Posted - 2014.05.21 22:35:00 - [111] - Quote Temias Mercurial wrote: HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Ever seen a heavy bomber or fighter jet survive a hit from a missile idiot? That's about as stupied as saying a scout shouldn't be able to kill a heavy. Aircraft is lightly armored or it wouldn't fly. And I've hit YOUR ADS with a proto forge gun with 3 damage mods at close range and you still had all your armor and flew away... 3-4 indirect hits from your missile and my heavy is dead? Your a good pilot but that's complete b.s. 3-4 indirect hits... when the Sentinel skill reduces splash damage by 25% at level 5... please don't use false numbers. Also, why were you in the open long enough to get shot and killed by him? It's understandable if you get killed by infantry when trying to kill him, but you should really try to be more aware of your surroundings. Also, pro tip, being a pilot myself helps considerably in knowing how a ADS functions and how they should be dealt with. Know thy enemy... To stand in the open long enough to get killed by 3-4 missiles requires about 2-3 seconds per missile to just fire, unless that pilot was 1) Using a Python 2) Has the Python skill maxed out, which increased missile rate of fire, which isn't OP, as it requires the same amount of sp as a proto suit (x8 skill multiplier). Think I need to start a AV school, but considering the state of Dust right now... yea. Join the A/V UNITED channel and show us how to do it. Because, that's why.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 722	Posted - 2014.05.21 22:44:00 - [112] - Quote Atiim wrote: Eko Sol wrote: [...] 1.6 was broken as hell and one person in particular told me he/she still complained about AV imbalances for more favor of infantry. [...] Never once have I called for an AV Buff / Vehicle Nerf before Uprising 1.7; in fact, I was one of the few AVers who were actually calling for an HAV Buff. Should I go on a limb and assume that this person doesn't exist, and that you simply stated that in an attempt to hold credibility with your statement? I am almost certain Spkr says this, which should be nuff said to its veracity. Because, that's why.
Scheneighnay McBob T.R.I.A.D Ushra'Khan 5068	Posted - 2014.05.21 22:44:00 - [113] - Quote Himiko Kuronaga wrote: How about we introduce a swarm launcher that explodes in the player's hand as punishment for not doing their goddamn job and taking the city? I think it would go a long way in teaching new players their proper role as infantry peasants. You can even make it part of the NPE! While your dumb ass is trying to take the outpost, I'll take care of the important **** outside of it, like the majority of the objectives. Observe the amount of f*cks given
Doc DDD TeamPlayers Dirt Nap Squad. 181	Posted - 2014.05.21 22:49:00 - [114] - Quote Logibro; Having swarms do nearly the same damage to an INCUBUS as it does to a PYTHON would be a good start. Makes no sense that half the damage is removed before a swarm volley even hits an incubus, but does near full damage to a python and launches said python into a series of cartwheels. While you are at it add massive stacking penalty to damage mods and armor repairers ( can't adjust one but not the other ).
Thurak1 Psygod9 D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 754	Posted - 2014.05.21 23:40:00 - [115] - Quote Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. EDIT: To clarify for those people taking this seriously this is not genuinely what I think. This is a joke. Please refrain from going on about how I'm a 'biased dropship pilot'. Infantry being able to kill vehicles is very realistic. There are numerous soldier carried weapons that can destroy vehicles in just 1 hit.
Shion Typhon Intara Direct Action Caldari State 664	Posted - 2014.05.22 00:10:00 - [116] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Not to mention that suppressing a vehicle is completely valid AV tactic. the "A" stands for "Anti" not KV for Kill Vehicle weapons. Only imbecile vehicle users think this is a thing. "Oh, they shouldn't be able to KILL me, just make me pause for a few regen ticks. I don't actually want to risk my ISK during my unstoppable killing spree, I mean being forced to stop farming infantry for as long as 10-15s is terrible".
Eko Sol Strange Playings 355	Posted - 2014.05.22 00:13:00 - [117] - Quote Shion Typhon wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Not to mention that suppressing a vehicle is completely valid AV tactic. the "A" stands for "Anti" not KV for Kill Vehicle weapons. Only imbecile vehicle users think this is a thing. "Oh, they shouldn't be able to KILL me, just make me pause for a few regen ticks. I don't actually want to risk my ISK during my unstoppable killing spree, I mean being forced to stop farming infantry for as long as 10-15s is terrible". ask anyone that's played with me. I have about 100k SP in vehicles. I'm terrible with vehicles in general and avoid them like all hell. I'm a ground AV'r and have recently started having fun with just a MLT forge and that ish is ttttiiiiiiigggghhhhtttt. Not a vehicle user. Don't need to be to bring the hurt.... PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1057	Posted - 2014.05.22 00:40:00 - [118] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. I strongly suggest that swarms should be retuned to be: WAY FASTER - easy to hit if target is moving straight towards or away Clumsier: easily overshooting -Hard to hit it target is moving fast left/right from swarmers point of view, especially at close distance. And definitely NO CORNER BENDING swarms doing 90 degree turns at will! :-S
XxGhazbaranxX The New Age Outlaws Proficiency V. 1352	Posted - 2014.05.22 01:47:00 - [119] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? . As is swarms already nearly make my dropship fall from the sky from the impulse.... Raise overall speed but keep impulse the same.... They should hit but not make my dropship backflip like they sometimes do. Hit impulse right now is in a good place, anymore and dropships would just back flip to the ground litterally. What we need is a constant stream of disruption against the dropship so that state of unbalance is constant making them not able to perform... The assault swarms could have a change to the mechanic... Now here me out for a minute, imagine that the assault variant has no clip but was able to throw missiles every .2 seconds or something like that. Anyways keep the overall amount of missiles per second of the current version but just make a steady stream of them. This would incapacitate dropships because of the constant knock back effect it would create making the dropship completely useless to do it's job. Only viable option is GTFO and come back later. Either way missile speed has to increase because It's too easy to run away from missiles. GREAT IDEA FOR MISSILE SPEED Missiles carry fuel to propel, at the end of the trajectory it should have less fuel. What if the missiles start out with incredible speed but start losing speed the farther they travel... Overall slowest speed should not be slower than current but initial speed should be a noticeable increase.... Say double the speed for the first 200 meters of travel decaying to current speed after 200 meters travels. This way closer targets will almost surely be hit and farther targets will have the same chance to be hit as they do now. Since swarm lock on is 175 meters this ensures that most of the missiles will take advantage of the missile speed increase. Plasma Cannon Advocate Dust 514 Survivor
bogeyman m Krusual Covert Operators Minmatar Republic 211	Posted - 2014.05.22 03:10:00 - [120] - Quote Michael Arck wrote: Well didn't they used to be constantly demolished by swarms in the past and they had nowhere to run because the range of swarms were like flies to **? Swarms are NOT** a deterrent on their own. You need to coordinate attacks with other squad members. This game is more about teamwork now as opposed to before, when solo Rambos could carry the whole team on their own. Again, coordinate attacks. You will essentially need to play volleyball with the ADS. One person firing swarms from the other direction while you have another guy on the other side FG the ADS. Fixed. Duct tape 2.0 > Have WD-40; will travel.

Dovallis Martan JenusKoll Osmon Surveillance Caldari State 791	Posted - 2014.05.22 03:32:00 - [121] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: now the values of hardeners have been changed some, but not by much ~50% reduction is "not by much"? Whewww...? Used to be 40% and 60%, now is 25% and 40% (armor, then shield respectively: not sure about the shield as I don't use that one.) Anyway... if there were slow swarms that had poor turning, but high damage, and fast swarms with High impact and good trail following, but low damage, it would make things interesting. The high impact would send DS spinning for a short time, potentially forcing them to ram into buildings if they are too close, or slam into the ground. Would be good for LAV's as well, knock them a bit off course (ground vehicles would be less affected obviously) and chase them down if they're being snarky and running laps. Consequentially, I would love a high Impact land mine that does very little damage, but would flip over a tank, forcing the driver to get out to right the tank. Should be lower DB than the cheapest tank scanners can do, but slightly more visible than remotes. Actually, I don't see why remotes show up at all on the tank scanner... In a highly contested map where there are a team of tankers preventing any organized opposition, they should still have to deal with retaliation by ground forces... I drive a tank half the time, and I see that remotes are usually easy to spot if paying attention. http://youtu.be/dtXupQg77SU Dust to Dust, theme
Riptalis Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2014.05.22 03:40:00 - [122] - Quote To the OP, just use tanks. You only need about 175K SP to be decent. I believe my friend just purchased the Madrugar with 3 MLT reps and is pretty much killing everyone. He could take on 3 tanks, depending on what they're fitting, without dying. ADS on the other hand require a ton more SP just to be okay. I think I spent over 9 mil on my ADS and I can't even take on 1 hit from a MLT railgun. If you're the only one using a Swarm you're gonna die. The enemy team needs more than just a Swarm to kill me, and usually there's more that I don't even dare to whip out my ADS. I rarely bring it out due to there always being 2 or more tanks plus forges. It's too much for me. Not to mention its very easy to switch to a AV fit when there's a Supply Depot next to A. If I see an enemy ADS I usually don't do anything because it's probably one of their rare games they can actually fly without getting knocked down by a MLT DS. To my fellow ADS pilots: rule the skies!
Baal Omniscient L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 1535	Posted - 2014.05.22 04:26:00 - [123] - Quote steadyhand amarr wrote: Quick post swarms are for LAV and dropships And PC and forge for tanks (PC being weaker due to mobility) Just like CC RR is for amour SCR and AR for shields If this were true, then why did a DEV (you know, the guys who make the game) say they AREN'T just for dropships and LAV's? Just curious. PSN ID: AlbelNox2569 MAG Vet ~ Raven R.I.P.~ Dust, R.I.P.~ MAG
Ralden Caster KILL-EM-QUICK RISE of LEGION 61	Posted - 2014.05.22 04:54:00 - [124] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. You could always replace the rather obselete assault swarm launcher's gimmick for this. And so, the mercenaries rejoiced, but with the regret that some of the mighty had fallen.
The dark cloud The Rainbow Effect 3115	Posted - 2014.05.22 05:49:00 - [125] - Quote KEROSIINI-TERO wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. I strongly suggest that swarms should be retuned to be: WAY FASTER - easy to hit if target is moving straight towards or away Clumsier: easily overshooting -Hard to hit it target is moving fast left/right from swarmers point of view, especially at close distance. And definitely NO CORNER BENDING swarms doing 90 degree turns at will! We are complaining about swarms bending around corners since closed beta. I highly doubt that we are going to see them changed in that aspect.
Spartan MK420 D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 361	Posted - 2014.05.22 06:29:00 - [126] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. awesome , but ads' still out rep swarm damage Official Unofficial D.A.R.K L.E.G.I.O.N team mascot.
jace silencerww D3ATH CARD 16	Posted - 2014.05.22 07:04:00 - [127] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Seriously are you fu@king kidding? Make missiles faster or give them back their old damage. ADS are ridiculous. What moron made dropshs faster than a missile? CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. read that ccp logibro I have seem and done that I out ran swrams from less than 50 meters easily and the damage is funny wait here watch this youtube video and look how funny it is. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6v7AwrgVwNA
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 0	Posted - 2014.05.22 10:19:00 - [128] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. CCP Logibro - you seriously have to watch this!! If the swarms do less damage per missile, it's not enough to stop drop ship shields from recharging immediately upon damage. This video above is so insanely well produced and explains everything that is wrong with swarm launchers. GRAPHS FRAME by FRAME COMPARISONS MATH FACTS WATCH THAT VIDEO. then post when you do
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 772	Posted - 2014.05.22 11:14:00 - [129] - Quote DJINN GITAXIS wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. CCP Logibro - you seriously have to watch this!! If the swarms do less damage per missile, it's not enough to stop drop ship shields from recharging immediately upon damage. This video above is so insanely well produced and explains everything that is wrong with swarm launchers. GRAPHS FRAME by FRAME COMPARISONS MATH FACTS WATCH THAT VIDEO. then post when you do Why do you people keep referencing an outdated video? Things have changed and need to be re-examined. Please stop pretending that Judge's old analysis still applies to the current situation. Medium frame EHP is not medium
KEROSIINI-TERO The Rainbow Effect 1058	Posted - 2014.05.22 11:29:00 - [130] - Quote XxGhazbaranxX wrote: . . . GREAT IDEA FOR MISSILE SPEED Missiles carry fuel to propel, at the end of the trajectory it should have less fuel. What if the missiles start out with incredible speed but start losing speed the farther they travel... Overall slowest speed should not be slower than current but initial speed should be a noticeable increase.... Say double the speed for the first 200 meters of travel decaying to current speed after 200 meters travels. This way closer targets will almost surely be hit and farther targets will have the same chance to be hit as they do now. Since swarm lock on is 175 meters this ensures that most of the missiles will take advantage of the missile speed increase. Better yet, reverse the speed idea: Missiles start at low speed but have to accelerate: - this avoids the close range near perfect hit rate and gives DS pilot small warning to start avoiding while the swarm is getting more dangerous (faster) - if target has lots of transversal the missile has to turn, and accelerate again and being at disadvantage - Bonus: Faster clumsier missiles have more chances of hitting ground or buildings - Bonus: it makes sense for missile having more fuel being slower, while with lesser load being faster near end of it's life :-S

Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8773	Posted - 2014.05.22 11:31:00 - [131] - Quote Ralden Caster wrote: You could always replace the rather obselete assault swarm launcher's gimmick for this. No, I'd rather see this become the Tactical Swarm Launcher. Leave the Assault Swarm Launcher as is. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND
RayRay James Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 154	Posted - 2014.05.22 12:24:00 - [132] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Arkena Wyrnspire wrote: Why should a dropship die to swarms, they're like, light AV, and dropships are medium air vehicles. Light AV should never be able to kill medium vehicles. Also, infantry being able to kill vehicles would be ridiculous. Ever seen a heavy bomber or fighter jet survive a hit from a missile idiot? That's about as stupied as saying a scout shouldn't be able to kill a heavy. Aircraft is lightly armored or it wouldn't fly. And I've hit YOUR ADS with a proto forge gun with 3 damage mods at close range and you still had all your armor and flew away... 3-4 indirect hits from your missile and my heavy is dead? Your a good pilot but that's complete b.s. Actually, IRL, yes... I have. A-10 Warthog's have been known to continue flying missing an wing and an engine.
rpastry The Rainbow Effect 179	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:01:00 - [133] - Quote make a swarm type that uses its remaining propellant as the charge. then you get one with longer range and a damage tailoff with flight time. [Removed ASCII Art - CCP Logibro]
Gaurdian Satyr Glitched Connection 282	Posted - 2014.05.22 13:21:00 - [134] - Quote Listen to whatever Judge says on this The other day we had to assemble 8 guys (3 adv swarm, 3 proto swarm, 1 proto forge, and 1 adv forge) just to take him down Now it was fun actually doing it cause we think he was getting pissed after the 2nd ads cause he started only focusing on us.....but then again we had to use 8 guys to do so and EVERYTHING had to hit at the same time or he would escape O and Judge thx for the experiance because of that battle ive built a new commando AV Spec Amarr commando Adv swarm Tactical sniper (yes i can kill your ship with this if it has no shield) Repper Dmg mod Thats it for now but ill eventually have a nanohive on there NOBODY FUCKING CARES AVOUT YOUR FUCKING CONCOLE OR PC
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 225	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:00:00 - [135] - Quote Dovallis Martan JenusKoll wrote: lithkul devant wrote: now the values of hardeners have been changed some, but not by much ~50% reduction is "not by much"? Whewww...? Used to be 40% and 60%, now is 25% and 40% (armor, then shield respectively: not sure about the shield as I don't use that one.) Anyway... if there were slow swarms that had poor turning, but high damage, and fast swarms with High impact and good trail following, but low damage, it would make things interesting. The high impact would send DS spinning for a short time, potentially forcing them to ram into buildings if they are too close, or slam into the ground. Would be good for LAV's as well, knock them a bit off course (ground vehicles would be less affected obviously) and chase them down if they're being snarky and running laps. Consequentially, I would love a high Impact land mine that does very little damage, but would flip over a tank, forcing the driver to get out to right the tank. Should be lower DB than the cheapest tank scanners can do, but slightly more visible than remotes. Actually, I don't see why remotes show up at all on the tank scanner... In a highly contested map where there are a team of tankers preventing any organized opposition, they should still have to deal with retaliation by ground forces... I drive a tank half the time, and I see that remotes are usually easy to spot if paying attention. I'm not sure your 50% number is correct, so please explain how you got that, since 25% is not half of 40%. Also, that was a personal oppinion, you snipped out my entire conversation before that, showing judge's link which demonstrates about ADS armor and shields by themselves and how swarms do damage and not enough of it. Also, people have adapted within tank combat to using double or triple reppers, I'm not saying to destroy repping, so don't even do a one link quote of me again, and I won't pretend to know how to fix that problem, maybe a pg/cpu increase or a stacking penalty. While your idea about the mine is intresting...it doesn't seem logical, and would just promote for people to use heavy suits when they are driving tanks as they do when driving LAV's, maybe a mine that locked up all the systems of a tank, including turrets would be better? Also, a mine flipping the tank over, might not always work and might have funky results, like a tank doing a 360 flip and bashing into your team's dropship which is trying to kill the tank. Tanks, take very little if any fall damage currently. For why remotes show up on tanks, it's because scannrers show all objects they can pick up now. This is so that infantry can scan an objective or doorway and find a remote, otherwise they would have to flux an objective every time they take it. Remote explosives are very common and widely used now. Sometimes even being thrown like gernades, which is a very effective but cheap way of playing.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1750	Posted - 2014.05.22 14:24:00 - [136] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Yes, this would be a much better deterrent infantry can use against dropships and ADS. I got so annoyed with ADS ruining games on my alt (keep in mind now, 0 SP into vehicles), that I made a Sica with two militia damage mods, militia railgun, and two militia plates. Now with this I actually want to prove two things. First is that ADS need a better counter for infantry (because currently it requires a rail tank), and the second is that tanks are too powerful without any investment. Whenever tanks are ruining my game, I just call in my Sica and pop them, regardless of their experience level. I even managed to pop a particle cannon Gunnlogi when I got the first shot on him. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 140	Posted - 2014.05.22 15:56:00 - [137] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. I do not like the idea of a new variant specifically for LAV/DropShips. AV is already a specialized role. Making it more specialized would take the fun out of it. I don't want to decide to run anti one type of vehicle. I want to hunt down all vehicles. Ignoring that, the problem with this idea is that the current variant (which I assume would become the tank SL by default) is easily out run by tanks. Tanks go too fast and self rep too fast. Regarding the former, either tanks need to go slower or swarm missiles need to go faster. If you slowed down tanks, your varient makes sense. If you speed up missiles, then the new variant isn't needed. Regarding the latter, since the great tank buff, I have never stumbled upon a tank driver repping his tank with a rep tool and I almost never bother repping tanks anymore (I exclusively use a triage rep tool on my min logi since 1.7). I might be fine with the absurd tank speed, if they had to hide for 1-2 minutes before their armor repped, or get out and rep their own vehicle, thereby leaving them exposed to wandering/hunting scouts and snipers.
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2114	Posted - 2014.05.22 17:05:00 - [138] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. That type of swarm would make the use of swarms a tactical asset once again. Much of AV now is establishing a zone of threat into which a vehicle cannot safely move/engage. Only of the pilot of said vehicle is reckless or inexperienced will the AV have much probability of eliminating it's target (some proto forges can be an exception, at least situationally). I'm no where near the best vehicle pilot, in fact I'm very green when it comes to running them and I don't have a single point into vehicle command but off the top of my head I can only recall 3 times when I've been taken out by AV in this build which did not include another vehicle (usually a rail or ADS). Of those three 2 of them were REs and/or Proxys, neither of which ADS have anything to fear from, the remaining one was a forge gun. Both swarms and AV nades aren't all that viable right now, leaving ADS only having to worry about other ADS, Rails, and Forge which is a much smaller segment of the player base. 0.02 ISK Cross PS ~ Give ADS pilots their due though, some of them are beastly and that has nothing to do with game balance and everything to do with player skill. Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Cross Atu OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2114	Posted - 2014.05.22 17:08:00 - [139] - Quote Thang Bausch wrote: [quote=CCP Logibro]Regarding the latter, since the great tank buff, I have never stumbled upon a tank driver repping his tank with a rep tool and I almost never bother repping tanks anymore (I exclusively use a triage rep tool on my min logi since 1.7). I might be fine with the absurd tank speed, if they had to hide for 1-2 minutes before their armor repped, or get out and rep their own vehicle, thereby leaving them exposed to wandering/hunting scouts and snipers. Supply depots. Every HAV driver I know who has a fit which does not include on board reps will simply pull up to a depot for reps even if they have to return to their redline to do it. The later practice is actually not that uncommon, but with shield tanks often does not remove them from combat for very long. 0.02 ISK Cross Cross Atu for CPM1- An emergent candidate
Chuck Nurris DCLXVI Enlightened Infantries Special Planetary Emergency Response Group 21	Posted - 2014.05.22 18:00:00 - [140] - Quote In short. Ass DS are OP as it is. With the proposed buff of the small Rail turrets they are about to be come an insurmountable menace. An Ass DS should die exactly as easily as a regular Tank. (A Madrugar of Gunnlogi.) Large turrets need to have their upward deflection restored, so they can target DS. And the DS upper ceiling should be lowered so they can no simply escape upwards like a rocket at the spot of trouble, with no real counter. Also, like the LAV's, add an acceleration curve to the DS. Right now they are pretty much 0- to safety in 2 seconds flat.

shade emry3 OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 69	Posted - 2014.05.22 18:35:00 - [141] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. I support multiple weapon types that are specialized in the target their going after. Not only is this realistic, but its also a good way of balancing things in my opinion. For example, I have seen (we fielded this) 5 militia forge gunners at 3 or lower in forge guns, take out a mil+ isk tank in seconds. then lavs, then dropships, then AD's.i have seen the same with swarm launchers. If their was a specialty forge gun type/swarm gun launcher type, it would grant the av'er a purpose for a specified task, whilist reducing the said scenario above. Im for this idea.
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 3453	Posted - 2014.05.22 19:08:00 - [142] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Assault Swarm Launchers? Yes, I think that is a good idea. Also, been saying this since 1.7.: Swarm Launcher Damage needs to be raised from 220 per missile to 250. (12% buff) Swarm Launcher Range needs to be increased from 175m to 200m (12% buff) The current Swarm Launcher damage might be fine for an Assault Swarm Launcher that has greater speed and longer range. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1272	Posted - 2014.05.22 19:51:00 - [143] - Quote Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: In short. Ass DS are OP as it is. With the proposed buff of the small Rail turrets they are about to be come an insurmountable menace. An Ass DS should die exactly as easily as a regular Tank. (A Madrugar of Gunnlogi.) Large turrets need to have their upward deflection restored, so they can target DS. And the DS upper ceiling should be lowered so they can no simply escape upwards like a rocket at the spot of trouble, with no real counter. Also, like the LAV's, add an acceleration curve to the DS. Right now they are pretty much 0- to safety in 2 seconds flat. well you also clearly don't fly dropships. There is only one large turret that should have its elevation buffed (assuming that's what you mean by deflection?) The missile turret. Blaster, anti infantry Rail, anti tank Missile, anti air If you want to take away our flight ceiling then you have to take away your red line. That's about the only place a dropship can actually be safe. I'm assuming you don't know this because you don't fly, afterburners are great, they act like nitro for ground vehicles, it is certainly not fast enough to get to the flight ceiling in 2 seconds flat. The dropship does have an acceleration curve when its not afterburning, in fact on take off I point my dose straight down to get maximum forward thrust so I can get to speed faster. So yeah....you don't really know what your talking about....
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 225	Posted - 2014.05.22 20:32:00 - [144] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: In short. Ass DS are OP as it is. With the proposed buff of the small Rail turrets they are about to be come an insurmountable menace. An Ass DS should die exactly as easily as a regular Tank. (A Madrugar of Gunnlogi.) Large turrets need to have their upward deflection restored, so they can target DS. And the DS upper ceiling should be lowered so they can no simply escape upwards like a rocket at the spot of trouble, with no real counter. Also, like the LAV's, add an acceleration curve to the DS. Right now they are pretty much 0- to safety in 2 seconds flat. well you also clearly don't fly dropships. There is only one large turret that should have its elevation buffed (assuming that's what you mean by deflection?) The missile turret. Blaster, anti infantry Rail, anti tank Missile, anti air If you want to take away our flight ceiling then you have to take away your red line. That's about the only place a dropship can actually be safe. I'm assuming you don't know this because you don't fly, afterburners are great, they act like nitro for ground vehicles, it is certainly not fast enough to get to the flight ceiling in 2 seconds flat. The dropship does have an acceleration curve when its not afterburning, in fact on take off I point my dose straight down to get maximum forward thrust so I can get to speed faster. So yeah....you don't really know what your talking about.... I would love for the red line to be taken away, that thing is just so aweful. For aerial vehicles though, yes they need to be able to have a point of escape, however, swarm missiles should be much faster and a little bit smarter. I can only barely fly dropships so I'm not going to pretend to know all the problems. However, I will say that missile turrets on tanks are not anti air, well not currently, what they are is flash dps, to basically be able to roll up on someone and kill them within 5 seconds flat. They do not exactly have the aim to be taking on dropships or ADS as far as I know. They also are the rarest kind of tank on the battlefield.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 360	Posted - 2014.05.22 20:36:00 - [145] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote: In short. Ass DS are OP as it is. With the proposed buff of the small Rail turrets they are about to be come an insurmountable menace. An Ass DS should die exactly as easily as a regular Tank. (A Madrugar of Gunnlogi.) Large turrets need to have their upward deflection restored, so they can target DS. And the DS upper ceiling should be lowered so they can no simply escape upwards like a rocket at the spot of trouble, with no real counter. Also, like the LAV's, add an acceleration curve to the DS. Right now they are pretty much 0- to safety in 2 seconds flat. well you also clearly don't fly dropships. There is only one large turret that should have its elevation buffed (assuming that's what you mean by deflection?) The missile turret. Blaster, anti infantry Rail, anti tank Missile, anti air If you want to take away our flight ceiling then you have to take away your red line. That's about the only place a dropship can actually be safe. I'm assuming you don't know this because you don't fly, afterburners are great, they act like nitro for ground vehicles, it is certainly not fast enough to get to the flight ceiling in 2 seconds flat. The dropship does have an acceleration curve when its not afterburning, in fact on take off I point my dose straight down to get maximum forward thrust so I can get to speed faster. So yeah....you don't really know what your talking about.... I would love for the red line to be taken away, that thing is just so aweful. For aerial vehicles though, yes they need to be able to have a point of escape, however, swarm missiles should be much faster and a little bit smarter. I can only barely fly dropships so I'm not going to pretend to know all the problems. However, I will say that missile turrets on tanks are not anti air, well not currently, what they are is flash dps, to basically be able to roll up on someone and kill them within 5 seconds flat. They do not exactly have the aim to be taking on dropships or ADS as far as I know. They also are the rarest kind of tank on the battlefield. LOL, take away the red line and then I'll park on the enemies MCC and snipe from there while my teammate sits with a Gatsuns FG and keeps drop ships away. PSN is "Ekopalm" I play D3, Child of Light, and solo games Also, Proto Trolling until I'm broke...
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1273	Posted - 2014.05.22 20:45:00 - [146] - Quote Cross Atu wrote: I'm no where near the best vehicle pilot, in fact I'm very green when it comes to running them and I don't have a single point into vehicle command but off the top of my head I can only recall 3 times when I've been taken out by AV in this build which did not include another vehicle (usually a rail or ADS). Of those three 2 of them were REs and/or Proxys, neither of which ADS have anything to fear from, the remaining one was a forge gun. Both swarms and AV nades aren't all that viable right now, leaving ADS only having to worry about other ADS, Rails, and Forge which is a much smaller segment of the player base. 0.02 ISK Cross PS ~ Give ADS pilots their due though, some of them are beastly and that has nothing to do with game balance and everything to do with player skill. I consider swarms a very serious threat. A milita or std swarmer out on his own is easy, I'll swing by and my gunner will get him easily. However when I'm in a high orbit fighting a good forge gunner and I see a volly of swarms fire I gtfo. I have been downed by two forges working together, and by a forge and two basic (maybe milita) swarms. I have also been downed by two minmandos with proto swarms, they got me before either of them needed to reload. Not to mention when in city environments you have to watch out for even the weakest swarm knocking you into something. So I can assure you swarm launchers are still very serious threats to ADS. If your flying low, flux grenades can be quite effective though its hard to time right. Honestly its extremely easy to fight an ads that doesn't have a crew. When I'm on the ground and I see an ads I treat it for the threat it is and get to somewhere he can't shoot. Most ads pilots that see me really try to hunt me down (thanks guys :P) and I'm sure a lot get angry because I don't make it easy. In fact one game there were three ads circling this cru. I was in my scout suit and this incubus pilot must have known who I was because he was coming after me like Mr. Pe pe so I baited him around and got him so focused on killing me that he didn't see his friend in the python in front of him, (but I did ) they crashed and then he hit a rock and then I finished him with my bolt pistol. I laughed for the rest of the game. Now if it had been a dropship with good gunners on it I would have been dead before I could have rounded a corner. maybe if it was sir snugglz I would have died but he is an exception. As good as snugglz is on his own though, good gunners can make the dropship seriously deadly, as the pilot is focusing on flying and you have two people focused on killing. I usually end my games with 5 kills while my gunners each went 24-0. I'm not especially good with my pilot gun, but I am pretty good at giving my gunners good angles. The gunners I fly with have flown with me for months, some for over a year, they know how I fly and I know how they shoot. We have good communication and have developed a system. It should absolutely take a forge and a swarm working together to bring us down. That's balanced, your fighting teamwork with teamwork. Yes this does mean that when I'm flying on my own it takes two people to down me however know that I am not even close to being as much of a threat as I would with my gunners. If I do fly solo I expect a couple hundred wp from turrets and maybe 4-5 kills. Oh and we also have to worry about missile turrets, blaster turrets, rdvs, PLC, small rail turrets, and suicide dropships. A lot of av need to stop trying to be Rambo and being able to solo complex fitted vehicles, especially dropships which is a teamwork based vehicle. That being said it shouldn't take more than two (using good equipment) to take down a well fitted dropship with an experienced pilot. Which is the way it works now so..... Yeah I think its pretty good. PS. Cheers! I give credit to those excellent av players who have downed me with their teamwork. Although I was angry, it was at myself for failing to see their clever ploys, well done to those intelligent few!
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1273	Posted - 2014.05.22 20:53:00 - [147] - Quote lithkul devant wrote: I would love for the red line to be taken away, that thing is just so aweful. For aerial vehicles though, yes they need to be able to have a point of escape, however, swarm missiles should be much faster and a little bit smarter. I can only barely fly dropships so I'm not going to pretend to know all the problems. However, I will say that missile turrets on tanks are not anti air, well not currently, what they are is flash dps, to basically be able to roll up on someone and kill them within 5 seconds flat. They do not exactly have the aim to be taking on dropships or ADS as far as I know. They also are the rarest kind of tank on the battlefield. If we make them even a little faster I will not be able to outrun them even with an afterburner. That worries me, as that's really the only countermeasure I have to swarms. They are plenty smart though, they will follow and hit me no matter what maneuver I do. They will do 90-¦ turns around buildings and hit me. Out running them is all I got. Actually large missile turrets are quite effective AA. They have some serious knock back, sometimes you can flip dropships, and like you said, burst damage to overpower a dropships reps. I have shot down quite a few incubi with my missile tank and it is quite satisfying. If the turret could elevate higher to say 75-¦ angle then it would be a very effective AA turret. We would also have to buff the range a little but its harder to hit with missiles long range because of travel time so I don't see there being too much of an issue with that.
lithkul devant Legions of Infinite Dominion Zero-Day 225	Posted - 2014.05.22 22:08:00 - [148] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: lithkul devant wrote: I would love for the red line to be taken away, that thing is just so aweful. For aerial vehicles though, yes they need to be able to have a point of escape, however, swarm missiles should be much faster and a little bit smarter. I can only barely fly dropships so I'm not going to pretend to know all the problems. However, I will say that missile turrets on tanks are not anti air, well not currently, what they are is flash dps, to basically be able to roll up on someone and kill them within 5 seconds flat. They do not exactly have the aim to be taking on dropships or ADS as far as I know. They also are the rarest kind of tank on the battlefield. If we make them even a little faster I will not be able to outrun them even with an afterburner. That worries me, as that's really the only countermeasure I have to swarms. They are plenty smart though, they will follow and hit me no matter what maneuver I do. They will do 90-¦ turns around buildings and hit me. Out running them is all I got. Actually large missile turrets are quite effective AA. They have some serious knock back, sometimes you can flip dropships, and like you said, burst damage to overpower a dropships reps. I have shot down quite a few incubi with my missile tank and it is quite satisfying. If the turret could elevate higher to say 75-¦ angle then it would be a very effective AA turret. We would also have to buff the range a little but its harder to hit with missiles long range because of travel time so I don't see there being too much of an issue with that. For the sake of arguement, I will simply say that my swarm experience is vastly different then yours and usually involves my swarms hitting a wall rather then doing a 90 degree turn. Also, swarms are very ineffective against ADS, unless the values have changed which I do not believe they have, Swarm launchers only have a 55% efective rate against ADS currently against both armor and shields. I have seen a single ADS literally dominant the entire battlefield because no one could do significant damage to it (disorganized blueberries) Heck, I blasted the thing with 3 swarm launches from an advanced launcher all I did was take off the shields, and yes I did use a damage modifier, then it got the shields right back. Swarm missiles need work and help, I don't expect to be able to kill an ADS on my own, but I should be enough to least keep it at bay, yet I can't with how the game currently is. Yes, I do acknowledge and agree with you, that they can be used as AA, I can imagine also that they are very good at it. However, they currently are not set up properly to be AA, if they had your suggested change then yes they would be very awesome at it. The point I was making though, is that they are not set up as the AA battery currently, Rail tank cannons would be similar in effectiveness as missile tanks are for the job as far as I know. In my statements I was talking about how Missile tanks currently do not have the aiming abilities to do it right now, which does factor in about elevation and how high you can raise your turret, also another factor would be the range of the missiles as you pointed out.
Stupid Blueberry Nova Corps Marines Ishuk-Raata Enforcement Directive 504	Posted - 2014.05.22 23:06:00 - [149] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Get rid of the useless assault variant we have now, call what you stated above the assault variant. Chillin, waitin on Legion. Ishukone loyalist, Caldari Scout enthusiast!
Atiim Heaven's Lost Property 8790	Posted - 2014.05.23 00:26:00 - [150] - Quote Stupid Blueberry wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Get rid of the useless assault variant we have now, call what you stated above the assault variant. The Assault Variant is by no means useless. Just call it the Tactical Swarm Launcher. HvLP Spreadsheet Warrior Why Do Slayers Get All The Credit? :( -HAND

PLAYSTTION Universal Allies Inc. 136	Posted - 2014.05.23 01:25:00 - [151] - Quote Swarms are so bad against Dropships i prefer AV hades, they actually work better until the pilot guns you down Back to BF1943, only 3 more ranks to go till at the top! Open Beta Vet 21mil sp R.I.P Dust 514
PLAYSTTION Universal Allies Inc. 136	Posted - 2014.05.23 01:28:00 - [152] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Slow down tanks to in between what it was and is now and please add that new variation it would help the game Back to BF1943, only 3 more ranks to go till at the top! Open Beta Vet 21mil sp R.I.P Dust 514
Magewarlord Contract Hunters 47	Posted - 2014.05.23 03:59:00 - [153] - Quote let's just bear in mind that while an assault dropship is very expensive, the enemy team will have to take a couple/few guys out of the match to dedicate themselves to taking out said ship. so it can take anywhere from 2-5 guys just to take out one guy With that said, I think a "proto" DS should be about the same price as a proto AV suit, but that one proto AV suit should be reasonably capable of taking out the ship by itself.
medomai grey WarRavens Final Resolution. 774	Posted - 2014.05.23 05:15:00 - [154] - Quote Magewarlord wrote: let's just bear in mind that while an assault dropship is very expensive, the enemy team will have to take a couple/few guys out of the match to dedicate themselves to taking out said ship. so it can take anywhere from 2-5 guys just to take out one guy With that said, I think a "proto" DS should be about the same price as a proto AV suit, but that one proto AV suit should be reasonably capable of taking out the ship by itself. As an ADS pilot, I agree that solo AV should be threating and able to kill me. The whole "it should take multiple people to kill my vehicle" belief is stupid and bad for balance. What I don't agree with is a straight up speed buff to swam missiles. Currently, swarm missiles have incredible tracking ability that is impossible to dodge and a flight speed that is difficult to out run without an afterburner. Just increasing the speed would result in a weapon with no way to evade or out run them. Not saying that swarms don't need tinkering, they do. But simply just increasing the speed of a swarm missile is not the solution. Medium frame EHP is not medium
Sequal Rise Les Desanusseurs 23	Posted - 2014.05.23 06:36:00 - [155] - Quote Magewarlord wrote: let's just bear in mind that while an assault dropship is very expensive, the enemy team will have to take a couple/few guys out of the match to dedicate themselves to taking out said ship. so it can take anywhere from 2-5 guys just to take out one guy With that said, I think a "proto" DS should be about the same price as a proto AV suit, but that one proto AV suit should be reasonably capable of taking out the ship by itself. I totally agree with you man. I think in order to make the swarms better, devs should take out the sort of "circle" it does when shooting. It would make it better if it shots direct missiles. Also, I think the speed should be increased but not too much, just enough to make it faster than an ADS but not with its afterburner on. Even without the afterburner, the missiles dont always hit their target because they are too slow! Moreover, they stop chasing the ADS after a short time wich makes it even more useless if it's not faster.
Thang Bausch Pierrot Le Fou Industries 140	Posted - 2014.05.23 12:13:00 - [156] - Quote shade emry3 wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. I support multiple weapon types that are specialized in the target their going after. Not only is this realistic, but its also a good way of balancing things in my opinion. For example, I have seen (we fielded this) 5 militia forge gunners at 3 or lower in forge guns, take out a mil+ isk tank in seconds. then lavs, then dropships, then AD's.i have seen the same with swarm launchers. If their was a specialty forge gun type/swarm gun launcher type, it would grant the av'er a purpose for a specified task, whilist reducing the said scenario above. Im for this idea. Your example is not an example that supports splitting AV into a hyper specialized role. 5 forge gunners means almost 1/3 of your team was focusing on AV. 1/3 of the team on AV should be taking down all the vehicles or perma suppressing them.
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1274	Posted - 2014.05.23 18:56:00 - [157] - Quote Thang Bausch wrote: Your example is not an example that supports splitting AV into a hyper specialized role. 5 forge gunners means almost 1/3 of your team was focusing on AV. 1/3 of the team on AV should be taking down all the vehicles or perma suppressing them. Which is what happens now.
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 70	Posted - 2014.05.24 02:09:00 - [158] - Quote Magewarlord wrote: let's just bear in mind that while an assault dropship is very expensive, the enemy team will have to take a couple/few guys out of the match to dedicate themselves to taking out said ship. so it can take anywhere from 2-5 guys just to take out one guy With that said, I think a "proto" DS should be about the same price as a proto AV suit, but that one proto AV suit should be reasonably capable of taking out the ship by itself. In what world would you assume ADS would cost less than a clone even proto'd out? Your in a vehicle, with a ton of hp, you can jump out before it explodes and call in another without even dying. I pop milita dropships and watch the pilot bail and run while I reload... It should at least kill you when I hit them with a forge gun and they have less than 500 hp left. 3 hits to a gorgon/viper with a proto forge should cause it to explode immediately ( like tanks do ) not give you time to escape. Lonewolf till I die
Will Driver Horizons' Edge Proficiency V. 57	Posted - 2014.05.24 02:55:00 - [159] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Swarms are A/V and should be effective against all vehicles. Not in favor of separate weapons for dropships and LAVs vs HAVs. However, I do feel swarms need shorter flight time and/or be smarter to negotiate elevation changes or to avoid obstacles. GÇ£Creativity is knowing how to hide your sourcesGÇ¥ GÇò Albert Einstein
Riptalis Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2014.05.24 21:23:00 - [160] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Magewarlord wrote: let's just bear in mind that while an assault dropship is very expensive, the enemy team will have to take a couple/few guys out of the match to dedicate themselves to taking out said ship. so it can take anywhere from 2-5 guys just to take out one guy With that said, I think a "proto" DS should be about the same price as a proto AV suit, but that one proto AV suit should be reasonably capable of taking out the ship by itself. In what world would you assume ADS would cost less than a clone even proto'd out? Your in a vehicle, with a ton of hp, you can jump out before it explodes and call in another without even dying. I pop milita dropships and watch the pilot bail and run while I reload... It should at least kill you when I hit them with a forge gun and they have less than 500 hp left. 3 hits to a gorgon/viper with a proto forge should cause it to explode immediately ( like tanks do ) not give you time to escape. Well when we're in the air with 0 Armor and 0 Shield and we bail out we mostly die by "comitting suicide". This happens to me 80% of the time. Not sure about other pilots.

Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1287	Posted - 2014.05.24 21:45:00 - [161] - Quote Riptalis wrote: Well when we're in the air with 0 Armor and 0 Shield and we bail out we mostly die by "comitting suicide". This happens to me 80% of the time. Not sure about other pilots. Happens to me all the time
HOWDIDHEKILLME Dying to Reload 84	Posted - 2014.05.24 22:55:00 - [162] - Quote Pvt Numnutz wrote: Riptalis wrote: Well when we're in the air with 0 Armor and 0 Shield and we bail out we mostly die by "comitting suicide". This happens to me 80% of the time. Not sure about other pilots. Happens to me all the time Kills tank drivers every time why should you be able to bail out but they can't? I fly all the time ( I use dropships like expendable high speed taxis since I'm a logi, flying to an objective bail and let it crash ) and I get away when shot down more than 50% of the time. I just laugh and call in another. Lonewolf till I die
lunatis orrak Band of The Hawkx Lokun Listamenn 25	Posted - 2014.05.24 23:02:00 - [163] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. Wait there are swarms geared to taking out tanks holy **** where??? Takes three advanced swarms just to take out a starter lav .where have you been? There is not a danger zone for them ive went through matches with a grimnes with not a worry in the world. Forge gun ha bail out after they hit you twice unless there militia i rep faster than they can shoot CHUBBY CHASER FOR LIFE `!BEWARE MY FAT BULLDOGS! The leash is not for your protection`
Poonmunch Sanguis Defense Syndicate 941	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:45:00 - [164] - Quote My ideas to fix swarms: 1) Add 10m range to the swarm launchers per level. And either 2) or 3) 2) Make the swarm launcher missiles travel faster. 3) Give swarm launchers better damage to armour. Munch Anyone who buys AUR now is a fool.
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1287	Posted - 2014.05.25 04:59:00 - [165] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Riptalis wrote: Well when we're in the air with 0 Armor and 0 Shield and we bail out we mostly die by "comitting suicide". This happens to me 80% of the time. Not sure about other pilots. Happens to me all the time Kills tank drivers every time why should you be able to bail out but they can't? I fly all the time ( I use dropships like expendable high speed taxis since I'm a logi, flying to an objective bail and let it crash ) and I get away when shot down more than 50% of the time. I just laugh and call in another. Might be the difference
DJINN GITAXIS Sebiestor Field Sappers Minmatar Republic 4	Posted - 2014.05.25 12:30:00 - [166] - Quote Python rate of fire too high. If they can look at you.. you're dead.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1037	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:38:00 - [167] - Quote CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. @Logibro...been looking for viable swarm variants for months (since 1.7). +1 I like your idea and i think you are on the right track. My personnel frustration is watching a dropship eat 4 proto-swarms (with 2x dog mods) and either rep the last two while getting hit or outrun it while he or his wing man kill me. That happened more than once during PC matches this weekend. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
Riptalis Seykal Expeditionary Group Minmatar Republic 23	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:41:00 - [168] - Quote HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote: Pvt Numnutz wrote: Riptalis wrote: Well when we're in the air with 0 Armor and 0 Shield and we bail out we mostly die by "comitting suicide". This happens to me 80% of the time. Not sure about other pilots. Happens to me all the time Kills tank drivers every time why should you be able to bail out but they can't? I fly all the time ( I use dropships like expendable high speed taxis since I'm a logi, flying to an objective bail and let it crash ) and I get away when shot down more than 50% of the time. I just laugh and call in another. Most of the tank drivers I kill don't take the chance to bail when their tank is on fire or on very low health. Their fault for missing their opportunity. Why should we be able to bail? Because we're pilots and we risk way more than tanks! Or CCP can just implement the same feature to tanks the only thing that's going to be different is they actually might still survive when bailing.
Jaysyn Larrisen OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 1037	Posted - 2014.05.25 14:45:00 - [169] - Quote Supacharjed wrote: CCP Logibro wrote: This is just me spit balling an idea in my head, but what would you think of a slightly lower damage than base (I think we need to look at base swarm damage anyway, so it might be higher than current numbers) swarms that are faster and have more range (maybe different physical impulse, not sure on that one)? Basically a swarm type that's more geared to taking out LAVs and Dropships rather than tanks, or at the very least being more effective at creating a danger zone for them. So, a more 'KInetic damage" based swarm launcher as opposed to the more "Explosive Damage" one we have now? That would be legti...I adjusting the damage tag would allow the Caldari Commando to become a very viable AV platform and would actually be a good racial balance option. "Endless money forms the sinews of War." - Cicero Skype: jaysyn.larrisen Twitter: @JaysynLarrisen
End is Near Isuuaya Tactical Caldari State 84	Posted - 2014.05.25 15:25:00 - [170] - Quote Bump blue tag

Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2081	Posted - 2014.05.25 19:09:00 - [171] - Quote some thoughts in video format. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight
Pvt Numnutz Watchdoge Explosives 1290	Posted - 2014.05.25 21:58:00 - [172] - Quote Judge Rhadamanthus wrote: some thoughts in video format. Well said judge. I find it frustrating that ADS pilots constantly have to give av players advice on how to best down an ADS. One would think that as it is a specialized role they would consider how to best destroy their intended target, rather than start shooting as soon as they are in lock range. Though I can't blame them too much, how are they suppose to know that we are blind to almost anything farther than 50 meters? I hope av players enjoy the insite you have given them into our world and mindset and become more professional in their role. Veteran assault dropship pilots had to learn how to survive in a much harsher climate and because of this are very experienced and battle hardened. Which explains why they are much better at responding to swarm threats, specifically those in your example with the tank where they give us the advantage. I have encountered groups of av players that have figured some of this out and set elaborate traps for me and my gunners. They would fire at me with a milita swarm, when I went to fight him and began to slow down to get a good firing position for my gunners suddenly a forge gun would hit me from the same place and a adv or proto swarm would fire with the milita. Since I am going pretty slow and the forge has mostly stripped my shields the incoming volly of swarms will hit (even with an AB on) and kill me. I've also been killed plenty of times by milita swarms who wait till I'm near a building and fire at the right moment to cause me to crash into it. Barvo to them for being patient. As a rough estimate I'd say I've lost at least 600mil isk trying to perfect my skyshark. I still get shot down by av to this day, though it happens less frequently.
Judge Rhadamanthus Amarr Templar One 2081	Posted - 2014.05.26 00:39:00 - [173] - Quote Cheers Numnutz. We need to make sure we look at both sides, so we can reach a balanced play style for AV and dropships. Everything Dropship youtube channel my Community Spotlight


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