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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 3 post(s) |
Pvt Numnutz
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Posted - 2014.05.21 02:24:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am and ads pilot, I can take out an ads with milita swarms if I wanted to. Pro tip, don't just lock and shoot as soon as you see it. Dropship pilots are pretty blind.
Op I believe you are an uneducated av player, you like to say your av but you think you should be able to just lock and fire and bring ships down because your av. If you had done your research on dropships and how they operate I am 100% sure you would have no problem fighting an ads. Know thy enemy and such.
Also afterburners, dropships can't out run swarms without them. Consider them pur countermeasures. |
Pvt Numnutz
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Posted - 2014.05.21 19:29:00 -
[2] - Quote
HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:I am and ads pilot, I can take out an ads with milita swarms if I wanted to. Pro tip, don't just lock and shoot as soon as you see it. Dropship pilots are pretty blind.
Op I believe you are an uneducated av player, you like to say your av but you think you should be able to just lock and fire and bring ships down because your av. If you had done your research on dropships and how they operate I am 100% sure you would have no problem fighting an ads. Know thy enemy and such.
Also afterburners, dropships can't out run swarms without them. Consider them pur countermeasures. Milita? B.S. Only a compleat moron would get destroyed by that. I have proto swarms prof 5 with 5 damage mods and still had ads's survive and kill me while I reloaded.
Your mistake is thinking that I am only dealing damage with the milita swarm to down it. |
Pvt Numnutz
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Posted - 2014.05.21 19:47:00 -
[3] - Quote
Atiim wrote:The job of Anti-Vehicle weapons is to kill vehicles. I've yet to see CCP state that AV should only suppress them, and even suggesting that they should only be suppressed is a problem because:
- If an Assault Dropship pilot can only be suppressed, he's not actually risking anything
- If a role makes it to where you won't die, why play as any other role?
- Nobody would spend SP into an AV weapon if they cannot kill targets with it. Just look at the PLC for reference.
Not to mention, it's possible to tilt the Assault Dropship to compensate for the knock-back effect, meaning it's not even a problem for those who actually know what they're doing. Hakyou Brutor wrote:You try ADSing mate, see how balanced it is. I've already done so. Still have yet to die. Even 80GJ Railguns aren't a problem because I can just warp to the flight ceiling when I get hit, it's not even difficult. I'm not even that good with ADSs either.
First of all  I have to see you fly atiim I'm going to hit you up so you can show me your "skills"
- the assault dropship can be shot down, most dropship pilots leave the danger zone if they are at risk of being downed. However you cannot always escape.
- ever had an rdv smack into you? Or a dropship suicide into you? Or a friendly tank ram you? Or a null cannon missile hit you? Or an ai missile turret flip you upsidedown from across the map? Or have something render at the last second when you can't avoid it? Or blown up a turret and suddenly have your ship explode? Or even just have the rdv drop your ship from too high? Or had a rail tank see it being brought down and pop it as the rdv tries to figure out how to deploy it? Been knocked into any building? Suddenly hit by 2 forge guns that didn't even render? Landing gear taps something and shuts off your engines in a combat zone? Lag causes you to crash? Get shot down and try to bail out only to instantly commit suicide? Engine fin gets caught and flips you over?
Yeah......dropship pilots NEVER die!  even if you make it to the ground your out two games worth of isk so lol.
- I have a friend that uses the PLC to kill tanks, its pretty awesome to watch. I still get shot down by swarms and forge gunners who know what they are doing. If they couldn't kill me then I might agree with you.
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Pvt Numnutz
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Posted - 2014.05.22 19:51:00 -
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Chuck Nurris DCLXVI wrote:In short. Ass DS are OP as it is. With the proposed buff of the small Rail turrets they are about to be come an insurmountable menace.
An Ass DS should die exactly as easily as a regular Tank. (A Madrugar of Gunnlogi.)
Large turrets need to have their upward deflection restored, so they can target DS. And the DS upper ceiling should be lowered so they can no simply escape upwards like a rocket at the spot of trouble, with no real counter. Also, like the LAV's, add an acceleration curve to the DS. Right now they are pretty much 0- to safety in 2 seconds flat.
 well you also clearly don't fly dropships.
There is only one large turret that should have its elevation buffed (assuming that's what you mean by deflection?) The missile turret.
Blaster, anti infantry
Rail, anti tank
Missile, anti air
If you want to take away our flight ceiling then you have to take away your red line. That's about the only place a dropship can actually be safe. I'm assuming you don't know this because you don't fly, afterburners are great, they act like nitro for ground vehicles, it is certainly not fast enough to get to the flight ceiling in 2 seconds flat.
The dropship does have an acceleration curve when its not afterburning, in fact on take off I point my dose straight down to get maximum forward thrust so I can get to speed faster. So yeah....you don't really know what your talking about.... |
Pvt Numnutz
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:45:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cross Atu wrote:
I'm no where near the best vehicle pilot, in fact I'm very green when it comes to running them and I don't have a single point into vehicle command but off the top of my head I can only recall 3 times when I've been taken out by AV in this build which did not include another vehicle (usually a rail or ADS). Of those three 2 of them were REs and/or Proxys, neither of which ADS have anything to fear from, the remaining one was a forge gun. Both swarms and AV nades aren't all that viable right now, leaving ADS only having to worry about other ADS, Rails, and Forge which is a much smaller segment of the player base.
0.02 ISK
Cross
PS ~ Give ADS pilots their due though, some of them are beastly and that has nothing to do with game balance and everything to do with player skill.
I consider swarms a very serious threat. A milita or std swarmer out on his own is easy, I'll swing by and my gunner will get him easily. However when I'm in a high orbit fighting a good forge gunner and I see a volly of swarms fire I gtfo. I have been downed by two forges working together, and by a forge and two basic (maybe milita) swarms. I have also been downed by two minmandos with proto swarms, they got me before either of them needed to reload. Not to mention when in city environments you have to watch out for even the weakest swarm knocking you into something.
So I can assure you swarm launchers are still very serious threats to ADS. If your flying low, flux grenades can be quite effective though its hard to time right.
Honestly its extremely easy to fight an ads that doesn't have a crew. When I'm on the ground and I see an ads I treat it for the threat it is and get to somewhere he can't shoot. Most ads pilots that see me really try to hunt me down (thanks guys :P) and I'm sure a lot get angry because I don't make it easy.
In fact one game there were three ads circling this cru. I was in my scout suit and this incubus pilot must have known who I was because he was coming after me like Mr. Pe pe so I baited him around and got him so focused on killing me that he didn't see his friend in the python in front of him, (but I did  ) they crashed and then he hit a rock and then I finished him with my bolt pistol. I laughed for the rest of the game.
Now if it had been a dropship with good gunners on it I would have been dead before I could have rounded a corner. maybe if it was sir snugglz I would have died but he is an exception. As good as snugglz is on his own though, good gunners can make the dropship seriously deadly, as the pilot is focusing on flying and you have two people focused on killing. I usually end my games with 5 kills while my gunners each went 24-0.
I'm not especially good with my pilot gun, but I am pretty good at giving my gunners good angles. The gunners I fly with have flown with me for months, some for over a year, they know how I fly and I know how they shoot. We have good communication and have developed a system. It should absolutely take a forge and a swarm working together to bring us down. That's balanced, your fighting teamwork with teamwork.
Yes this does mean that when I'm flying on my own it takes two people to down me however know that I am not even close to being as much of a threat as I would with my gunners. If I do fly solo I expect a couple hundred wp from turrets and maybe 4-5 kills.
Oh and we also have to worry about missile turrets, blaster turrets, rdvs, PLC, small rail turrets, and suicide dropships.
A lot of av need to stop trying to be Rambo and being able to solo complex fitted vehicles, especially dropships which is a teamwork based vehicle.
That being said it shouldn't take more than two (using good equipment) to take down a well fitted dropship with an experienced pilot. Which is the way it works now so..... Yeah I think its pretty good.
PS. Cheers! I give credit to those excellent av players who have downed me with their teamwork. Although I was angry, it was at myself for failing to see their clever ploys, well done to those intelligent few!
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Pvt Numnutz
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Posted - 2014.05.22 20:53:00 -
[6] - Quote
lithkul devant wrote:
I would love for the red line to be taken away, that thing is just so aweful. For aerial vehicles though, yes they need to be able to have a point of escape, however, swarm missiles should be much faster and a little bit smarter. I can only barely fly dropships so I'm not going to pretend to know all the problems. However, I will say that missile turrets on tanks are not anti air, well not currently, what they are is flash dps, to basically be able to roll up on someone and kill them within 5 seconds flat. They do not exactly have the aim to be taking on dropships or ADS as far as I know. They also are the rarest kind of tank on the battlefield.
If we make them even a little faster I will not be able to outrun them even with an afterburner. That worries me, as that's really the only countermeasure I have to swarms.
They are plenty smart though, they will follow and hit me no matter what maneuver I do. They will do 90-¦ turns around buildings and hit me. Out running them is all I got.
Actually large missile turrets are quite effective AA. They have some serious knock back, sometimes you can flip dropships, and like you said, burst damage to overpower a dropships reps. I have shot down quite a few incubi with my missile tank and it is quite satisfying. If the turret could elevate higher to say 75-¦ angle then it would be a very effective AA turret. We would also have to buff the range a little but its harder to hit with missiles long range because of travel time so I don't see there being too much of an issue with that. |
Pvt Numnutz
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Posted - 2014.05.23 18:56:00 -
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Thang Bausch wrote:
Your example is not an example that supports splitting AV into a hyper specialized role. 5 forge gunners means almost 1/3 of your team was focusing on AV. 1/3 of the team on AV should be taking down all the vehicles or perma suppressing them.
Which is what happens now. |
Pvt Numnutz
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Posted - 2014.05.24 21:45:00 -
[8] - Quote
Riptalis wrote:
Well when we're in the air with 0 Armor and 0 Shield and we bail out we mostly die by "comitting suicide". This happens to me 80% of the time. Not sure about other pilots.
Happens to me all the time |
Pvt Numnutz
Watchdoge Explosives
1287
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Posted - 2014.05.25 04:59:00 -
[9] - Quote
HOWDIDHEKILLME wrote:Pvt Numnutz wrote:Riptalis wrote:
Well when we're in the air with 0 Armor and 0 Shield and we bail out we mostly die by "comitting suicide". This happens to me 80% of the time. Not sure about other pilots.
Happens to me all the time Kills tank drivers every time why should you be able to bail out but they can't? I fly all the time ( I use dropships like expendable high speed taxis since I'm a logi, flying to an objective bail and let it crash ) and I get away when shot down more than 50% of the time. I just laugh and call in another.
Might be the difference |
Pvt Numnutz
Watchdoge Explosives
1290
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Posted - 2014.05.25 21:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Judge Rhadamanthus wrote:some thoughts in video format.
Well said judge. I find it frustrating that ADS pilots constantly have to give av players advice on how to best down an ADS. One would think that as it is a specialized role they would consider how to best destroy their intended target, rather than start shooting as soon as they are in lock range. Though I can't blame them too much, how are they suppose to know that we are blind to almost anything farther than 50 meters? I hope av players enjoy the insite you have given them into our world and mindset and become more professional in their role.
Veteran assault dropship pilots had to learn how to survive in a much harsher climate and because of this are very experienced and battle hardened. Which explains why they are much better at responding to swarm threats, specifically those in your example with the tank where they give us the advantage.
I have encountered groups of av players that have figured some of this out and set elaborate traps for me and my gunners. They would fire at me with a milita swarm, when I went to fight him and began to slow down to get a good firing position for my gunners suddenly a forge gun would hit me from the same place and a adv or proto swarm would fire with the milita. Since I am going pretty slow and the forge has mostly stripped my shields the incoming volly of swarms will hit (even with an AB on) and kill me.
I've also been killed plenty of times by milita swarms who wait till I'm near a building and fire at the right moment to cause me to crash into it. Barvo to them for being patient.
As a rough estimate I'd say I've lost at least 600mil isk trying to perfect my skyshark. I still get shot down by av to this day, though it happens less frequently. |
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