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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2093
   |
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:25:00 -
[1] - Quote
1: tech levels aren't the same as tiers. and by saying what you just said, you made the tier system sound even worse; we have both the tech levels, which gets better as you go up, and then there is tiers, which gets better as you go up, so a PROTO tech 2 (say a Assault), is much more superior than a STD medium. This just closes the gap. Also, although it is true that for the same role, a tech 2 is better than a tech 1, that doesn't mean that it's overall better.
2: Your solutions for thing could just as easily go a opposite way and be actually good. For instance, your idea with AUR things. look at League of Legends. You can buy the same legend with a different skins. People Do that. A lot. All CCP has to do is make a lot of neat skins, or even sell us the ability to make our own skins, which they could turn into BPO's. Speaking of BPO's, all they would have to do is turn the BPO's into whatever the original item was equivalent (say the Dragonfly Scout G-I into the Dragonfly Scout G-whatever), and then turn it into a EVE style BPO, where we would just buy the materials off the market, put it into a production line, and make the items.
3: Although you're right about the last two points, they don't cover the full effect of why a lot of people, including most if not all of the current CPM doesn't like it. I can't speak for everyone, but I'll explain why both of those are not completely right:
For the NPE one, you discuss PROTO stomping. PROTO stomping doesn't have to be just against noobs. say one guy doesn't feel like using PROTO gear or is saving up because he doesn't have a ISK farm. Then comes the douche who only runs PROTO gear. They face off, and even though the guy in the STD gear might be better, he lost due to the worse gear. That is not fair, and shouldn't happen. Under a tiercide dust, the guy might have won.
For the economy one, as I said, the ISK farm people won't give a single ****. They got ISK to burn, so losing a truck load or two in a match doesn't matter to them, as they know they will never run out.
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2093
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:51:00 -
[2] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Tl:dr
Op has no idea what he's talking about.
assaults and logis are specialized roles making them tech 2.
The only valid argument against tiericide is we don't have enough suits to make it worth it.
Eve has 6 frigates, 2 destroyers, 4 cruisers, 3 battle cruisers and 3 battleships that are just "tech one"
Excluding capitals and industrials and tech two/tech3 factional etc etc that's 18 ships so 72 ships among 4 races before you count all the others. Making eve at least 6x times more diverse than dust.
it's actually much greater but you get the point.
Dust has 3 per race, making 12 among the 4 races. This is why our variety is so lacking. We have no suits, our only "variety" comes from the ineffective tiers and palette swaps. Standard and advanced tiers suck and every complains about proto being to strong. we should have 4-5 different suits per category. With a specialized tech 2 version of each. Meaning 12-15 unique skins and 24-30 suits per race FOR STARTERS.
Tiericide is getting rid of the three suit tiers and making all suits good instead of having useless standard-advanced tiers.
EVE has lots more due to having more than just combat.....
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2094
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 21:59:00 -
[3] - Quote
Auris Lionesse wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Tl:dr
Op has no idea what he's talking about.
assaults and logis are specialized roles making them tech 2.
The only valid argument against tiericide is we don't have enough suits to make it worth it.
Eve has 6 frigates, 2 destroyers, 4 cruisers, 3 battle cruisers and 3 battleships that are just "tech one"
Excluding capitals and industrials and tech two/tech3 factional etc etc that's 18 ships so 72 ships among 4 races before you count all the others. Making eve at least 6x times more diverse than dust.
it's actually much greater but you get the point.
Dust has 3 per race, making 12 among the 4 races. This is why our variety is so lacking. We have no suits, our only "variety" comes from the ineffective tiers and palette swaps. Standard and advanced tiers suck and every complains about proto being to strong. we should have 4-5 different suits per category. With a specialized tech 2 version of each. Meaning 12-15 unique skins and 24-30 suits per race FOR STARTERS.
Tiericide is getting rid of the three suit tiers and making all suits good instead of having useless standard-advanced tiers. EVE has lots more due to having more than just combat..... I only counted combat ships in the 72 and I even excluded titans carriers dreadnoughts and motherships.
Ah. I never myself counted how many ships there was. You're probably right thinking about it.
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Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2096
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:33:00 -
[4] - Quote
Autoaim Bot514 wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:Auris Lionesse wrote:Tl:dr
Op has no idea what he's talking about.
assaults and logis are specialized roles making them tech 2.
The only valid argument against tiericide is we don't have enough suits to make it worth it.
Eve has 6 frigates, 2 destroyers, 4 cruisers, 3 battle cruisers and 3 battleships that are just "tech one"
Excluding capitals and industrials and tech two/tech3 factional etc etc that's 18 ships so 72 ships among 4 races before you count all the others. Making eve at least 6x times more diverse than dust.
it's actually much greater but you get the point.
Dust has 3 per race, making 12 among the 4 races. This is why our variety is so lacking. We have no suits, our only "variety" comes from the ineffective tiers and palette swaps. Standard and advanced tiers suck and every complains about proto being to strong. we should have 4-5 different suits per category. With a specialized tech 2 version of each. Meaning 12-15 unique skins and 24-30 suits per race FOR STARTERS.
Tiericide is getting rid of the three suit tiers and making all suits good instead of having useless standard-advanced tiers. EVE has lots more due to having more than just combat..... I only counted combat ships in the 72 and I even excluded titans carriers dreadnoughts and motherships. Not having to create 3 suits for each role would free CCP up to introduce more roles for new suits.
That's one of my points of tiercide: balance and growth is far easier.
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Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2096
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:36:00 -
[5] - Quote
Cotsy wrote:Delta 749 wrote:So you support pay to win then right? A little open ended here, but the idea of AUR being purchased would greatly help CCP. The idea of a matchmaking tier system as I have described it would be based on SP at low levels and SP + skill at higher levels. If one is able to get AUR gear at a lower level, it would provide a marginal advantage over his fellow beginners, or battle academy members. CCP is not a pay to win, because everyone can purchase the same gear either via AUR or time/playing the game. Having a tier system like I suggested would be a greater benefit to CCP money wise but would only give players a marginal advantage and for a very very short time. AUR would also allow players in the second bracket to use all the gear they used in Academy, which would encourage players to spend more money, and doesn't provide any advantage. AUR provides very small advantages in the early process, and frankly, none at later tiers. The game is far from pay to win, it's more of the EVE model whereby the longer you're account has been active the more likely you are given the advantage. This doesn't always hold true because boosters, and time played, but it's not too far off the EVE model.
Wait, you realize that this game might not stay with matches like this, right?
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2098
|
Posted - 2014.04.28 23:48:00 -
[6] - Quote
Rusty Shallows wrote:True Adamance wrote:Rusty Shallows wrote:Vell0cet wrote:snip
TL;DR: tiericide is f*cking stupid. Most of your post reads like a PAC attack AD. I live in a battleground State so these are pretty easy to spot. Still Tiericide will not work for Dust as it did for EVE, it will either bring some strong benefits or ruin variation and invalidate SP like it does for tank modules. Agreed that it would ruin modules. It could work for reorganizing weapon sub-variants by skill level rather than having so many teirs. Where it can shine is holding back power creep on Frames and Vehicles. Both of those are areas we'e had (or are having) trouble with.
Well, if skills were worth a damn, and the TTK wasn't **** for vehicles, if modules had verity but were tiercided, I bet that wouldn't matter.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2102
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 22:37:00 -
[7] - Quote
Faquira Bleuetta wrote:Godin Thekiller wrote:1: tech levels aren't the same as tiers. and by saying what you just said, you made the tier system sound even worse; we have both the tech levels, which gets better as you go up, and then there is tiers, which gets better as you go up, so a PROTO tech 2 (say a Assault), is much more superior than a STD medium. This just closes the gap. Also, although it is true that for the same role, a tech 2 is better than a tech 1, that doesn't mean that it's overall better.
2: Your solutions for thing could just as easily go a opposite way and be actually good. For instance, your idea with AUR things. look at League of Legends. You can buy the same legend with a different skins. People Do that. A lot. All CCP has to do is make a lot of neat skins, or even sell us the ability to make our own skins, which they could turn into BPO's. Speaking of BPO's, all they would have to do is turn the BPO's into whatever the original item was equivalent (say the Dragonfly Scout G-I into the Dragonfly Scout G-whatever), and then turn it into a EVE style BPO, where we would just buy the materials off the market, put it into a production line, and make the items.
3: Although you're right about the last two points, they don't cover the full effect of why a lot of people, including most if not all of the current CPM doesn't like it. I can't speak for everyone, but I'll explain why both of those are not completely right:
For the NPE one, you discuss PROTO stomping. PROTO stomping doesn't have to be just against noobs. say one guy doesn't feel like using PROTO gear or is saving up because he doesn't have a ISK farm. Then comes the douche who only runs PROTO gear. They face off, and even though the guy in the STD gear might be better, he lost due to the worse gear. That is not fair, and shouldn't happen. Under a tiercide dust, the guy might have won.
For the economy one, as I said, the ISK farm people won't give a single ****. They got ISK to burn, so losing a truck load or two in a match doesn't matter to them, as they know they will never run out.
gay -1
I dare you to made a actual argument against me. Don't be a homophobic douche.
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Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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Godin Thekiller
OSG Planetary Operations
Covert Intervention
2104
|
Posted - 2014.04.29 22:41:00 -
[8] - Quote
I have yet to see a argument to say that tiercide in whole is not needed, nor will I doubt I will ever see one.
Just to let you fools who think it doesn't work, as I said, look at one of the most successful games around, and one of the most balanced ones at the same time atm, League of Legends.
click me
Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
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