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Do "tankers" realise this?

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THEAMAZING POTHEAD Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 1087	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:00:00 - [1] - Quote If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. Your post is making me facepalm very hard right now.
Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1996	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:04:00 - [2] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. AV can still hack an objective, and a red dot can't pick up their forge or swarm. Random blue dot jumps out of a tank to hack something, gets killed, then has their tank stolen, and the team has to deal with it. If I'm on an alt and get in one, even if it's fit not the best but decently enough, I'll wreck the other team if I choose my individual battles very carefully. I did just that on an alt; hacked some guy's blaster tank, and proceeded to best someone using a railgun (because I know what I'm doing). I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 388	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:06:00 - [3] - Quote If you don't know how to solo kills tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to bait tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to ambush tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to get tanks by surprise, you don't know how to AV. If you need to cry for AV buff, you don't know how to AV. I am open to major AV buff once vehicles get the variety back. Also more direct and indirect AV weaponry to get the rock paper scissors, not rock paper nuke. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3346	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:06:00 - [4] - Quote So im a proto heavy in 2 suits - Caldari/Gallente With proto FG - Love the breach, has the ability to 1 shot all unhardened vehicles So the tank is better that me in certain ways - Its faster than me unless i use a LAV, it can cause more damage than me with a rail because its a large rail unless i use breach, its has better resistances to infantry and damage with lolhardeners A proto FG is not more expenisve than a fully fitted tank - 57k is not more than 70k for example AV is broken because vehicles are broken, CCP doesnt know where it want to go tbh This is the only answer, with it brings more skills/mods/vehicles/AV weapons/variety/playstyles Part 1: Engineering & Capacitors Part 2: Armor & Shield Part 3: Modules & Skills Part 4: Vehicles Part 5: Overview
ROMULUS H3X research lab 124	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:09:00 - [5] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. AV is perfectly fine once my passive's regain themselves and my Forge shoots on time. The myth of 3 AV's to take out 1 tank is so wrong. I am one AV specialist and I usually take out more than a dozen vehicles in one game.. Patience is key. FORGE/FLAYLOCK/FISTS--NUFF SED YOU SHALL NOT CATCH ME FOR I AM THE GINGERBREAD FATMAN -Romulus H3X
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3008	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:11:00 - [6] - Quote Really, a Proto breach FG can take down a tank in 1 shot? Really...really... "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2001	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:11:00 - [7] - Quote You misunderstand the concept, as it is not a binary that we ask for: equal skilled AV vs equal skilled pilot, the pilot should be able to be scared off, but has a reasonable amount of time to run better AVer vs pilot should be able to pin the pilot down and kill him/her worse AVer vs. pilot should not be able to kill i or die vs the pilot. The problem is that a good pilot can be anyone due to the accessibility of gear and simplicity of said gear that we now have, as well as the roles that the pilot can preform unless the pilot is creative and makes a although more complex, a more rewarding role to preform. in conclusion, I'll jsut leave this here click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3349	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:12:00 - [8] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Really, a Proto breach FG can take down a tank in 1 shot? Really...really... Yup Ive done it several times
Cody Sietz Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 3008	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:15:00 - [9] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Really, a Proto breach FG can take down a tank in 1 shot? Really...really... Yup Ive done it several times If it did, I would use it. It didn't one shot tanks in 1.7 and it doesn't 1 shot in 1.8 "I do agree with you there though. shudders" -Arkena Wyrnspire
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 389	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:19:00 - [10] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Really, a Proto breach FG can take down a tank in 1 shot? Really...really... Yup Ive done it several times If it did, I would use it. It didn't one shot tanks in 1.7 and it doesn't 1 shot in 1.8 Haven't really tested the Breach myself, but try hitting the weakspot. I know IAFG takes care of tanks unbelievably fast with very low SP or isk investment, you just gotta wait for skills to load up. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.

Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3350	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:19:00 - [11] - Quote Cody Sietz wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Really, a Proto breach FG can take down a tank in 1 shot? Really...really... Yup Ive done it several times If it did, I would use it. It didn't one shot tanks in 1.7 and it doesn't 1 shot in 1.8 Well your doing something wrong because it works for me
R F Gyro Clones 4u 1274	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:19:00 - [12] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: The myth of 3 AV's to take out 1 tank is so wrong. I am one AV specialist and I usually take out more than a dozen vehicles in one game.. This was never really about what was needed in the game people were playing at the time. The "3 AV vs. 1 tank" meme emerged from conversations about how tanks should be balanced against AV. Some tank drivers (not all, I know, I know) started using the argument that AV shouldn't be able to solo a tank, because its a tank. RF Gyro: 12.5% damage bonus; 10.5% rate of fire bonus
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 220	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:21:00 - [13] - Quote Amazing Pothead is a One Percenter (see Tanker Survey). Anyone want to take a stab at where Taki and Spkr go? Bang?
Delta 749 Kestrel Reconnaissance 2829	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:23:00 - [14] - Quote No but use teamwork I'll start my own war, with hookers, and blackjack! In fact forget the war and the blackjack.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 389	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:24:00 - [15] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Amazing Pothead is a One Percenter (see Tanker Survey). Anyone want to take a stab at where Taki and Spkr go? I suppose you go to the 0% no brain at all? R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 463	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:25:00 - [16] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. You are an idiot. Go back to the playground and play rock paper scissors with your friends
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 220	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:26:00 - [17] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Amazing Pothead is a One Percenter (see Tanker Survey). Anyone want to take a stab at where Taki and Spkr go? I suppose you go to the 0% no brain at all? Do you realize what you just said? (Now we know which bin you go in). Bang?
Auris Lionesse Kang Lo Directorate Gallente Federation 721	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:30:00 - [18] - Quote No they can't play an fps with no gungame so they hide in invincible metal boxes with their helmets on and don't want to change that which is why they cried when av was balanced in 1.6. Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Gallente Heavy Ninja Turtles! Heroes in a half Gank! *TURTLE POWER!!!*
Godin Thekiller OSG Planetary Operations Covert Intervention 2001	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:32:00 - [19] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Amazing Pothead is a One Percenter (see Tanker Survey). Anyone want to take a stab at where Taki and Spkr go? And this is why I think of most infantry as bluedots click me Blup Blub Bloop. Translation: Die -_-
Duran Lex Fraternity of St. Venefice Amarr Empire 704	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:32:00 - [20] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Really, a Proto breach FG can take down a tank in 1 shot? Really...really... Yup Ive done it several times If it did, I would use it. It didn't one shot tanks in 1.7 and it doesn't 1 shot in 1.8 Well your doing something wrong because it works for me If you are suggesting you one shot HAVS that are completely full on EHP, and are not touched by anyone other then you, Then i suggest you use mathematics. Or do all HAVS you come across decide to call in a tank without any modules?

Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 463	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:33:00 - [21] - Quote Auris Lionesse wrote: No they can't play an fps with no gungame so they hide in invincible metal boxes with their helmets on and don't want to change that which is why they cried when av was balanced in 1.6. AV was balanced in chromosome, not in uprising you are ********.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 389	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:35:00 - [22] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Amazing Pothead is a One Percenter (see Tanker Survey). Anyone want to take a stab at where Taki and Spkr go? I suppose you go to the 0% no brain at all? Do you realize what you just said? (Now we know which bin you go in). I realize perfectly, what you don't realize is that I don't care what you think about me, no one else does either, which is why you shouldn't care what I think about you, especially if you are too lazy or stupid to use your brain to think about what I could have possibly meant, oh wait, I said you don't have brain, which is exactly why I left room for thinking. And you just proved me right. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
nakaya indigene 0uter.Heaven 239	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:39:00 - [23] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: If you don't know how to solo kills tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to bait tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to ambush tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to get tanks by surprise, you don't know how to AV. If you need to cry for AV buff, you don't know how to AV. I am open to major AV buff once vehicles get the variety back. Also more direct and indirect AV weaponry to get the rock paper scissors, not rock paper nuke. I can solo against tanks. (being a tank pilot myself) this just seems like basic knowledge. The Jove Espier --- YoutubeChannel--> NakaNakaNaka
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 170	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:43:00 - [24] - Quote Seems to me that the reason it's unbalanced currently is something like this: Assuming equal skill between AV'er and pilot, 1v1... MLT AV vs. ANY Tank = Tank wins. Basic AV vs. ANY Tank = Tank wins. ADV AV vs. MLT Tank w/MLT mods = toss-up, but definitely slanted in favor of the Tank ADV AV vs. STD Tank w/PRO mods = Tank wins PRO AV vs. STD Tank w/PRO mods = toss-up, still slanted in favor of the Tank depending on the setting The underlying issue is that MLT tanks are 1) cheap and 2) nearly as effective as STD Tanks. People can get MLT tanks with MLT mods, no SP investment whatsoever, and wreck people who have skilled deeply into AV. Tanks need to be tiered such that: STD AV = STD Tank w/STD mods. ADV AV = ADV Tank w/ADV mods. PRO AV = PRO Tank w/PRO mods. Swarms could use a buff. MLT gear needs to be taken out of the game completely. And CCP desperately needs to put in some sort of PvE tutorial that actually teaches new players how to play the game. It will allow players to try EVERY WEAPON, EVERY STYLE OF SUIT, AND EVERY PIECE OF EQUIPMENT IN THE GAME. It will emphasize the importance of core skills, be they for dropsuits or vehicles, and... Never mind, I'm going to make a separate post for the rest of this... Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando / Do you even lift?
Virtual Riot Rebels New Republic INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 341	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:45:00 - [25] - Quote to all you people saying that you one shot tanks with a breach and to all you people saying that if you can't solo kill a tank you can't AV I'm just going to direct you here, and hope you stop stating you opinions as fact. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155084&find=unread Fixing FGs > all
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 228	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:46:00 - [26] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Amazing Pothead is a One Percenter (see Tanker Survey). Anyone want to take a stab at where Taki and Spkr go? I suppose you go to the 0% no brain at all? Do you realize what you just said? (Now we know which bin you go in). I realize perfectly. Pretty sure you don't so I'll give you a hint ... it has something to do with 0%. Don't strain that mind, Tanker. Let it go if you must. Bang?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 228	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:48:00 - [27] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: to all you people saying that you one shot tanks with a breach and to all you people saying that if you can't solo kill a tank you can't AV I'm just going to direct you here, and hope you stop stating you opinions as fact. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155084&find=unread Oh snap! Do swarms! Do swarms with math! Hurry! Bang?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6730	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:51:00 - [28] - Quote ........................,,-~*~,, ......................./:.:.:.:.:.\| ......................\|;.;.;.;.;./ ......................\|.;.;.;.;.\| ............._,,,,,_.).;.;.;.;.\| .........,,-":.:.:.:."~-,;.;.;.\| ........(_,,,,---,,_:.:.);.;.;..",, ......,-":.:.:.:.:.""-,,/;.;.;.;.;.", .....(:.__,,,,,,,,,___);.;.;.;.;.;\| ...../"":.:.:.:.:.:.:-»""\;.;.;.;.;.," ....\",__,,,,,,,,,,,__/;;;;;;;;;/\ .....\.::.:.:.:.:.:.:.;.);;;;;;;;;/:\ .......\,,,,,---~~~~;;;;;;;;,"::::\ .........."""~~--,,,,,,,,,,-"::::::::::\ ...................\::::::::::::::::::::::\ #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6730	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:53:00 - [29] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Virtual Riot wrote: to all you people saying that you one shot tanks with a breach and to all you people saying that if you can't solo kill a tank you can't AV I'm just going to direct you here, and hope you stop stating you opinions as fact. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155084&find=unread Oh snap! Do swarms! Do swarms with math! Hurry! This should help get you started. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
One Eyed King Land of the BIind 1089	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:54:00 - [30] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Amazing Pothead is a One Percenter (see Tanker Survey). Anyone want to take a stab at where Taki and Spkr go? I suppose you go to the 0% no brain at all? Let me spell it out for you. You said he was 0% in the no brain category. That puts him at 100% full brain. That puts you in the 100% doesn't know how to get his idea across category. If you are going to make silly comments and attack people, you should at least take the time to do it right and say what you mean. Looking for the scout hangout?

Ripley Riley Incorruptibles 1731	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:54:00 - [31] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Oh snap! Do swarms! Do swarms with math! Hurry! There really isn't a point to work out the math on swarm damage, IICR, they aren't correctly applying damage. I keep waiting for a hotfix for it... but the hotfix never comes He imposes order on the chaos of organic evolution...
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1674	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:55:00 - [32] - Quote ^ why quit while you're behind when you can dig that grave a few feet deeper. I ignore tanks. Unless I feel like laying down some kung-fu JLA/V.... Double posting like a Kaiser.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 391	Posted - 2014.04.14 20:57:00 - [33] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Amazing Pothead is a One Percenter (see Tanker Survey). Anyone want to take a stab at where Taki and Spkr go? I suppose you go to the 0% no brain at all? Do you realize what you just said? (Now we know which bin you go in). I realize perfectly. Pretty sure you don't so I'll give you a hint ... it has something to do with 0%. Don't strain that mind, Tanker. Let it go if you must. I'll also give you a hint, it also has something to do with 0%. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9497	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:02:00 - [34] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. I had a Kaalakiota forge gunner solo my Soma.... I was taking almost 1600 damage per swarm volley from a Min Commando with s Swarm Launcher. AV is still punchy, still very viable..... what makes AV not viable is a meta that dictates and allows an HAV to rep 300+ armour a second constantly without a down time. Current AV values would have been great against a 1.6 tanking model. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 239	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:02:00 - [35] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: I'll give you a hint ... Have you considered a career with Red Star? Bang?
Virtual Riot Rebels New Republic INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 342	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:02:00 - [36] - Quote Ripley Riley wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Oh snap! Do swarms! Do swarms with math! Hurry! There really isn't a point to work out the math on swarm damage, IICR, they aren't correctly applying damage. I keep waiting for a hotfix for it... but the hotfix never comes Yeahhh, this I mean I could make a post on it, but swarms don't even work correctly, so it wouldn't really be a true representation. :( Fixing FGs > all
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 391	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:03:00 - [37] - Quote One Eyed King wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Amazing Pothead is a One Percenter (see Tanker Survey). Anyone want to take a stab at where Taki and Spkr go? I suppose you go to the 0% no brain at all? Let me spell it out for you. You said he was 0% in the no brain category. That puts him at 100% full brain. That puts you in the 100% doesn't know how to get his idea across category. If you are going to make silly comments and attack people, you should at least take the time to do it right and say what you mean. I'm actually not attacking anyone, I let them do it for themselves. But I don't find it funny how he was directly attacking 2 people. But I guess whateva, have a nice day, or something. PS. Oh please do tell me how I avoided your argument and insult because reasons. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6730	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:05:00 - [38] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Oh snap! Do swarms! Do swarms with math! Hurry! There really isn't a point to work out the math on swarm damage, IICR, they aren't correctly applying damage. I keep waiting for a hotfix for it... but the hotfix never comes Yeahhh, this I mean I could make a post on it, but swarms don't even work correctly, so it wouldn't really be a true representation. :( To my knowledge, Swarm Launchers were only applying damage incorrectly to Dropships, which has been fixed for everything but the Gorgon, Grimsnes, and Incubus. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 391	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:05:00 - [39] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: One Eyed King wrote: If you are going to make silly comments and attack people, you should at least take the time to do it right and say what you mean. ^ why quit while you're behind when you can dig that hole a few feet deeper? I ignore tanks. Unless I feel like laying down some kung-fu JLA/V.... I know it was directed at me but man that was funny! Have my like, sir! R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 391	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:08:00 - [40] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: I'll give you a hint ... Have you considered a career with Red Star? Big blue donut is so much better cause I have no gungame... R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.

Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 998	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:12:00 - [41] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: AV can still hack an objective, and a red dot can't pick up their forge or swarm. Awfully hard to hack points if you can't make it past the HAV's alive Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A proto FG is not more expenisve than a fully fitted tank - 57k is not more than 70k for example I think you forgot to add the price of the suit that carries the said proto FG making it (in most cases anyways) more expensive than your ~70k HAV (which is impervious to small arms fire, moves faster than any suit and has the most EHP in the game while dishing out the most dps and has what, 2-3 soft counters and 2 hard counters?) Please forgive me my tanker overlords for uttering these blasphemous words, have mercy "Now I am become Dev, the locker of threads." -CCP Logibro
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 391	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:17:00 - [42] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: AV can still hack an objective, and a red dot can't pick up their forge or swarm. Awfully hard to hack points if you can't make it past the HAV's alive Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A proto FG is not more expenisve than a fully fitted tank - 57k is not more than 70k for example I think you forgot to add the price of the suit that carries the said proto FG making it (in most cases anyways) more expensive than your ~70k HAV (which is impervious to small arms fire, moves faster than any suit and has the most EHP in the game while dishing out the most dps and has what, 2-3 soft counters and 2 hard counters?) Please forgive me my tanker overlords for uttering these blasphemous words, have mercy You are forgiven but think about the weaknesses that we have, oh, right, from infantry viewpoint we have no weaknesses. Well, umm, right, we don't, that's why we never die, that's why I have X kills and 0 deaths. I'm immortal, I'm a god! Edit: also my tank can go anywhere I want, you are not safe! R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
Nothing Certain Bioshock Rejects 481	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:20:00 - [43] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: So im a proto heavy in 2 suits - Caldari/Gallente With proto FG - Love the breach, has the ability to 1 shot all unhardened vehicles So the tank is better that me in certain ways - Its faster than me unless i use a LAV, it can cause more damage than me with a rail because its a large rail unless i use breach, its has better resistances to infantry and damage with lolhardeners A proto FG is not more expenisve than a fully fitted tank - 57k is not more than 70k for example AV is broken because vehicles are broken, CCP doesnt know where it want to go tbh This is the only answer, with it brings more skills/mods/vehicles/AV weapons/variety/playstyles Part 1: Engineering & Capacitors Part 2: Armor & Shield Part 3: Modules & Skills Part 4: Vehicles Part 5: Overview The only tank capable of being one shotted by a forge is an unhardeneded Sica with no plate and no extender. This requires a proto Breach Forge, level 5, prof. 5, and the shot must hit the tanks fuel cell. This is the only tank and only scenario that can be one shotted by a forge. Prof.4 and it doesn't work, Soma and it doesn't work, miss the fuel cells, not even close. Get your facts correct. Because, that's why.
Henchmen21 Planet Express LLC 925	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:21:00 - [44] - Quote Large blasters are the problem, using one makes you the problem. You have a problem with infantry AV and have to tank use a rail and solve the problem. Don't exacerbate it. Your game f'ing sucks, but I'll still play it.... damn you! Henchmen21: Infantry Gotyougood Ufkr: Vehicles
Virtual Riot Rebels New Republic INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 342	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:21:00 - [45] - Quote Atiim wrote: Virtual Riot wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Oh snap! Do swarms! Do swarms with math! Hurry! There really isn't a point to work out the math on swarm damage, IICR, they aren't correctly applying damage. I keep waiting for a hotfix for it... but the hotfix never comes Yeahhh, this I mean I could make a post on it, but swarms don't even work correctly, so it wouldn't really be a true representation. :( To my knowledge, Swarm Launchers were only applying damage incorrectly to Dropships, which has been fixed for everything but the Gorgon, Grimsnes, and Incubus. Really? huh, well maybe I will do it, but I have a question for you sir, with the forge gun vs maddy post I did it on a heavy Ck.0 should I do it on a suit with 5 high slots for the SL vs maddy post? or same suit Fixing FGs > all
Matticus Monk Ordus Trismegistus 1676	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:23:00 - [46] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Matticus Monk wrote: One Eyed King wrote: If you are going to make silly comments and attack people, you should at least take the time to do it right and say what you mean. ^ why quit while you're behind when you can dig that hole a few feet deeper? I ignore tanks. Unless I feel like laying down some kung-fu JLA/V.... I know it was directed at me but man that was funny! Have my like, sir! LOL! All in all, mercs having a good time on the 514ums. Double posting like a Kaiser.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 392	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:28:00 - [47] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: Atiim wrote: Virtual Riot wrote: Ripley Riley wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Oh snap! Do swarms! Do swarms with math! Hurry! There really isn't a point to work out the math on swarm damage, IICR, they aren't correctly applying damage. I keep waiting for a hotfix for it... but the hotfix never comes Yeahhh, this I mean I could make a post on it, but swarms don't even work correctly, so it wouldn't really be a true representation. :( To my knowledge, Swarm Launchers were only applying damage incorrectly to Dropships, which has been fixed for everything but the Gorgon, Grimsnes, and Incubus. Really? huh, well maybe I will do it, but I have a question for you sir, with the forge gun vs maddy post I did it on a heavy Ck.0 should I do it on a suit with 5 high slots for the SL vs maddy post? or same suit Didn't ask me but my 0.02 ISK goes to proto minmando. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 392	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:33:00 - [48] - Quote Matticus Monk wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Matticus Monk wrote: One Eyed King wrote: If you are going to make silly comments and attack people, you should at least take the time to do it right and say what you mean. ^ why quit while you're behind when you can dig that hole a few feet deeper? I ignore tanks. Unless I feel like laying down some kung-fu JLA/V.... I know it was directed at me but man that was funny! Have my like, sir! LOL! All in all, mercs having a good time on the 514ums. I always come here to enjoy the 514ums when I cannot enjoy the game for one reason or the other, but all in all, if I ever say something that seems quite bitter/serious that is not concerning bugs, it should be taken with a grain of salt. I come here for laughs, not to rage, it's funny tho to get people into making very srs arguments, but it's even funnier when they are not that serious, just like yours. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 999	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:39:00 - [49] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: AV can still hack an objective, and a red dot can't pick up their forge or swarm. Awfully hard to hack points if you can't make it past the HAV's alive Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A proto FG is not more expenisve than a fully fitted tank - 57k is not more than 70k for example I think you forgot to add the price of the suit that carries the said proto FG making it (in most cases anyways) more expensive than your ~70k HAV (which is impervious to small arms fire, moves faster than any suit and has the most EHP in the game while dishing out the most dps and has what, 2-3 soft counters and 2 hard counters?) Please forgive me my tanker overlords for uttering these blasphemous words, have mercy You are forgiven but think about the weaknesses that we have, oh, right, from infantry viewpoint we have no weaknesses. Well, umm, right, we don't, that's why we never die, that's why I have X kills and 0 deaths. I'm immortal, I'm a god! Edit: also my tank can go anywhere I want, you are not safe! Thank you o benevolent one for your immeasurable mercy and wisdom, you truly are great and as powerful as the tales say. Besides RE's and FG's we (the puny, filthy and wretched infantry) really don't have tools to combat HAV's besides hiding Tanks do die, rarely but they do (might just be a local rumor going about) I could probably count areas that are safe from vehicles with fingers on my hands and I wouldn't even have to use them all I will now retire from this discussion and do my ritual self flagellation to atone for my sins "Now I am become Dev, the locker of threads." -CCP Logibro
Sylwester Dziewiecki Interregnum. 273	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:40:00 - [50] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... "then he need a friend to kill a tank with him" I thought, and stopped reading (seriously). I'm here since may 2012, my EVE alter ego is Nosum Hseebnrido.

Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 244	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:53:00 - [51] - Quote Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... "then he need a friend to kill a tank with him" I thought, and stopped reading (seriously). 2 vs 1 - Poor Odds 3 vs 1 - Fair Odds 4 vs 1 - Good Odds PSA: Red Star is Recruiting folks who are OK with this. Bang?
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9498	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:55:00 - [52] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... "then he need a friend to kill a tank with him" I thought, and stopped reading (seriously). 2 vs 1 - Poor Odds 3 vs 1 - Fair Odds 4 vs 1 - Good Odds If those are your odd then you are bad AVers. A corpie player solo most of the time and he racks up HAV kill counts by playing smart. "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!" -Dagger Two
Operative 1171 Aajli Bragian Order Amarr Empire 1865	Posted - 2014.04.14 21:56:00 - [53] - Quote MAVs, LAVs, MTACs. Soon plenty of reasons to be AV without invalidating an HAV which should be at the top of the food chain. The blaster is the problem for infantry. The rail is just OP. Nerf them and we're good. Brick tanking a scout suit since April 2013!
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1584	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:03:00 - [54] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. Look at all of this filth. My tank costs 560k... much more than your proto AV suit. You also only need a proto AV weapon... everything else on that suit is a luxury except for damage mods, which don't inflate the price. One good forge gunner can solo a tank. Perhaps you're just not good enough? Anyways, you want to know the reason to skill into infantry AV as opposed to tanks? Well, you already have all of your dropsuit upgrades, so all you need is the AV weapon. As where for tanks, you have to start from 0 SP. It's better to just use all of your dropsuit upgrades and apply them to an infantry AV fitting. There's one thing we agree with, and it's that militia vehicles and mods are too powerful for their cost, both ISK and SP. Nerf them into the ground, bring back tiers, and let only the dedicated tankers remain on the field that cost more than 5 times your suit. Now, there's no reason for infantry AVers to jump into Sicas because they will get destroyed if anything sneezes at them and skilling into a proper tank will cost more SP than grabbing a proto AV weapon. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 463	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:05:00 - [55] - Quote Virtual Riot wrote: to all you people saying that you one shot tanks with a breach and to all you people saying that if you can't solo kill a tank you can't AV I'm just going to direct you here, and hope you stop stating you opinions as fact. https://forums.dust514.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=155084&find=unread and the triple rep dies effortlessly to my advanced large missile turret counterplay, ladies and gentlemen Or are you angry that infantry AV can't handle all situations the best AND be the cheapest at the same time? Funny how it seems when you turn the situations around
Pvt Numnutz R 0 N 1 N 1104	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:07:00 - [56] - Quote Hmm interesting point. What about me though? I think it should take 2 skilled av to take down my tank. Why? Because I use missile tanks, for me to get any effective infantry killing abilities I need at minimum 1 gunner on one of my rails. That means 2 people in my tank if I want good anti infantry then I need 2 gunners, so the equation shifts to 3 guys in a tank vs 2 guys anti vehicle. Seems fair to me. In fact the rail tank is pretty much the same against infantry, the only one that breaks this is a large blaster, however they aren't great against other vehicles. From my understanding light av is meant as a deterrent to give infantry enough time to get to a location or withdrawal or hide etc. In groups it kills, but solo can help friendly vehicles fight enemy vehicles. Team work?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 246	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:11:00 - [57] - Quote True Adamance wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... "then he need a friend to kill a tank with him" I thought, and stopped reading (seriously). 2 vs 1 - Poor Odds 3 vs 1 - Fair Odds 4 vs 1 - Good Odds If those are your odd then you are bad AVers. A corpie player solo most of the time and he racks up HAV kill counts by playing smart. Pardon the Alt. I run Proto Nades and Proto Swarms on a 39.57M SP toon and have been PC active/eligible since 1.0. Pretty sure I've popped your can more than once, if that's any indication of "good". I don't even try to pull AV anymore unless someone else is engaging armor with me. When I do AV solo, the very vehicles I swarm charge my position. Because AV is that bad. You and I both know the only serious threat to a Pilot's safety is one another, a serious fckup, a lucky JLAV, or a 3+ man effort to take you out. Its bullsht and its about dmn time CCP takes off the training wheels. Bang?*
Lynn Beck Wake N' Bake Inc Top Men. 1159	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:19:00 - [58] - Quote My AV does one thing better than a tank, better than remote explosives. I can deny the entire surrounding AREA to a tank/derpie solo. If he sits about to try and kill a few more, he dies. If i want to kill him usin AV, then i need to either outsmart him, or bring friends. General John Ripper is my 2nd best friend!
Guilbert 515 United Pwnage Service RISE of LEGION 30	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:30:00 - [59] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. Talking about roles to play Since introduction of the new Commando suits, AVing tanks has become much more exciting and challenging. I enjoy the way it is right now. In pubs you might fail to av, if you run without a mixed squad and you rely on the blue to have proper fittings. But in squad tanks are not a big of a disaster as in 1.7. In PC AVing has also become much more entertaining. If you consider tanks a treat make sure to spec into commando and carry a swarm along your prime. Even if im the only AV around my commando does manage to make sure the tank retreats. That is when i run in proto gear. The only valuable critic i read out of your post is that tanks dont cost a thing. Which is quiet true. For the damage and treat the tank does at the moment in skilled hands its way to cheap. The other point is that militia tanks are not much easier to kill than an advance model. Also basic and advance AV are pretty useless since you cant even make a basic LAV shiver. Nonetheless I wouldnt consider tanks OP anymore, but a proper threat. Id rather have CCP look into making the basic AV and advance a bit more useful and look into the cost of tanks. "Please fix drop uplink spam"
True Adamance Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 9500	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:36:00 - [60] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: True Adamance wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Sylwester Dziewiecki wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... "then he need a friend to kill a tank with him" I thought, and stopped reading (seriously). 2 vs 1 - Poor Odds 3 vs 1 - Fair Odds 4 vs 1 - Good Odds If those are your odd then you are bad AVers. A corpie player solo most of the time and he racks up HAV kill counts by playing smart. Pardon the Alt. I run Proto Nades and Proto Swarms on a 39.57M SP toon and have been PC active/eligible since 1.0. Pretty sure I've popped your can more than once, if that's any indication of "good". I don't even try to pull AV anymore unless someone else is engaging armor with me. When I do AV solo, the very vehicles I swarm charge my position. Because AV is that bad. You and I both know the only serious threat to a Pilot's safety is one another, a serious fckup, a lucky JLAV, or a 3+ man effort to take you out. Its bullsht and its about dmn time CCP takes off the training wheels. SP doesn't make you a good AVer. Swarms are not strictly speaking that bad..... I went up against a very canny swarmer yesterday who picked an entrench position with access to sight over a very open area, they coupled that with proxies by the gates to the compound.... I could not approach, and could not move across the open ground without having very potent swarm fire placed on me. THAT is good AVing. Shutting down and limiting the movement of HAV. Killing and HAV is the eventual goal of course but winning trumps kills every time "Get thine Swag out of my face! Next you'll be writing #YOLOswagforJamyl in all your posts!"* -Dagger Two

ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 513	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:46:00 - [61] - Quote Tanks can be solo'd. It takes a lot of skill points and a lot of dedication to do it though. Everything has to go right for the AVer and wrong for the tanker. It's Dropships that **** me off. With tanks, I can avoid them, hunt them, engage them on my terms if I plan correctly, and I have a multitude of AV options to use in conjunction to take them down. With Dropships, I can only engage when they choose, I have to spend much more time with my eyes off my surroundings (looking up), I'm extreamly limited in my AV options, and Dropships can very quickly avoid those weapon's ranges at the first sign of trouble. I do keep a short list of tankers I watch out for, but it is ONLY Dropship pilots that I offer Milions of ISK to my squad mates for removing the ship from inventory. I hope CCP increases swarm velocity, that is all that is really needed. It's utter BS that a transport can outrun a missle. These things aren't spyplanes, they're floating cargo containers with guns. YouTube
Tebu Gan Dem Durrty Boyz Dirt Nap Squad. 797	Posted - 2014.04.14 22:49:00 - [62] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. Is your idea of "AV Specialist" anyone that uses a AV main weapon? When I AV, I use everything at my disposal. Re's, Prox, Nades, LAV, the works. I consider my build a true AV specialist build, because I go to town on tanks. No, I don't always outright kill them, but often times I am able to drive them away from their engagements, and I do so, over and over and over. BTW, LAVs really make a difference. Allows you to pick and choose engagements. Use an armor version(LAV) without a turret, and a heavy STD Repper. Thing is TOUGH. Tanks - Balancing Turrets
Marcus Stormfire G.R.A.V.E INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 18	Posted - 2014.04.14 23:06:00 - [63] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: If you don't know how to solo kills tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to bait tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to ambush tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to get tanks by surprise, you don't know how to AV. If you need to cry for AV buff, you don't know how to AV. I am open to major AV buff once vehicles get the variety back. Also more direct and indirect AV weaponry to get the rock paper scissors, not rock paper nuke. +1 This. AV works fine for me. I tend to loose more suits going after tanks (osh** blaster tank) However if done right as stated above you can get some nice kills. -Marcus -I don't always kill Mercs with a sidearm, But when I do I use militia.
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 182	Posted - 2014.04.14 23:28:00 - [64] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Didn't ask me but my 0.02 ISK goes to proto minmando. ADV minmando has the same # of high slots and armor/shields for significantly less ISK. Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando / Do you even lift?
KalOfTheRathi Nec Tributis 1189	Posted - 2014.04.14 23:58:00 - [65] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... With math skills like this you should apply to CCP/Shanghai. They could use help with math but they need someone that isn't real skilled. It would demoralize the troops. My basic Maddy is 150K ISK and is my most common drop. Next is ~250K ISK following by a few variations that end up at 490K ISK. The basic tank is ~59K ISK, STD are ~95K ISK. The most Proto of PRO weapons is 77K ISK. All ADV weapons for tanks are 105K ISK, all PRO are 282K ISK. Try using the - (minus sign) the other way around. Or notice the one in front of your answer before you post your Mathelite results in the future. The most common AV used against me is ... a Militia Swarmer, or a basic (same four missiles). Without damage mods they cannot take out the shields on my armor tanks. At least not for long and even if they hit my armor it is back before the next volley. The good news is most AV Mercs are as good as math as you are. The bad news is all of them will QQ on the forums about how hard it is to AV a tank. Welcome to Dust And so it goes.
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 182	Posted - 2014.04.15 00:02:00 - [66] - Quote KalOfTheRathi wrote: The bad news is all of them will QQ on the forums about how hard it is to AV a tank. Welcome to Dust I'll wait until I have my proto SL and then QQ Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando / Do you even lift?
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 257	Posted - 2014.04.15 00:36:00 - [67] - Quote True Adamance wrote: SP doesn't make you a good AVer. Swarms are not strictly speaking that bad..... I went up against a very canny swarmer yesterday who picked an entrench position with access to sight over a very open area, they coupled that with proxies by the gates to the compound.... I could not approach, and could not move across the open ground without having very potent swarm fire placed on me. THAT is good AVing. Shutting down and limiting the movement of HAV. Killing and HAV is the eventual goal of course but winning trumps kills every time Sorry, Bro. I like a lot of what you have to say, but on this you are wrong. Anecdotal "this one time" shite doesn't change the facts: * Tanks are OP * AV is UP What happened in that story there was that you fcked up and lost a tank. Pilot Error is the only way anyone ever loses a tank to infantry. Thank God for stupid Pilots. And thank God that smart Pilots like you fck up on occasion. The bottom line is that you guys have too much room for error. Bang?
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 398	Posted - 2014.04.15 04:42:00 - [68] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: True Adamance wrote: SP doesn't make you a good AVer. Swarms are not strictly speaking that bad..... I went up against a very canny swarmer yesterday who picked an entrench position with access to sight over a very open area, they coupled that with proxies by the gates to the compound.... I could not approach, and could not move across the open ground without having very potent swarm fire placed on me. THAT is good AVing. Shutting down and limiting the movement of HAV. Killing and HAV is the eventual goal of course but winning trumps kills every time Sorry, Bro. I like a lot of what you have to say, but on this you are wrong. Anecdotal "this one time" shite doesn't change the facts: * Tanks are OP * AV is UP What happened in that story there was that you fcked up and lost a tank. Pilot Error is the only way anyone ever loses a tank to infantry. Thank God for stupid Pilots. And thank God that smart Pilots like you fck up on occasion. The bottom line is that you guys have too much room for error. Well, the reason tanks die is because a) not all of us are hiding in the redline, redline reduces deaths by 99% b) we don't have sixth sense, if I am concentrated at doing one thing, the chances are I wont be watching out for another, unless my squad specifically keeps updating the threats to my tank. It's just impossible to be on top of everchanging battlefield conditions if other people wont tell me what's going on. Infantry doesn't have to worry about this so much cause they can very quickly check their surroundings all the time to see how the situation is changing and gtfo if necessary. Only warning that solo tankers get about threats to them is watching the killfeed, but that means it was already too late for somebody, and that could have been you. I've seen solo AV give me no options to survive so many times that you wouldn't believe it. The only way to survive those situations is to know beforehand what is going to happen and get out of the before that AV guy gets to you. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
Racro 01 Arifistan 501st Knights of Leanbox INTERGALACTIC WARPIGS 290	Posted - 2014.04.15 05:08:00 - [69] - Quote my dual proto av suit is still cheaper than my tanks. my av suit is abotu 130k and my tanks are 205k + best part about being a tanker is knowing how to kill tanks with a tank. or my trusty wykomi. *Elite Gallenten Soldier*
Alpha 443-6732 General Tso's Alliance 463	Posted - 2014.04.15 05:51:00 - [70] - Quote Hecarim Van Hohen wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: AV can still hack an objective, and a red dot can't pick up their forge or swarm. Awfully hard to hack points if you can't make it past the HAV's alive Takahiro Kashuken wrote: A proto FG is not more expenisve than a fully fitted tank - 57k is not more than 70k for example I think you forgot to add the price of the suit that carries the said proto FG making it (in most cases anyways) more expensive than your ~70k HAV (which is impervious to small arms fire, moves faster than any suit and has the most EHP in the game while dishing out the most dps and has what, 2-3 soft counters and 2 hard counters?) Please forgive me my tanker overlords for uttering these blasphemous words, have mercy It's also awfully hard to die to a tank when you can pick and choose when he sees you and is able to shoot at you try taking cover for a change, or are you trying to lolspeedtank through his bullets?

Spkr4theDead Red Star. EoN. 1998	Posted - 2014.04.15 14:31:00 - [71] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Really, a Proto breach FG can take down a tank in 1 shot? Really...really... Yup Ive done it several times If it did, I would use it. It didn't one shot tanks in 1.7 and it doesn't 1 shot in 1.8 Well your doing something wrong because it works for me Oh man, I love these people. I may be missing something, but I'm pretty sure that I didn't call for a tank nerf before Uprising 1.7. - Atiim
Takahiro Kashuken Red Star. EoN. 3360	Posted - 2014.04.15 14:39:00 - [72] - Quote Spkr4theDead wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Cody Sietz wrote: Really, a Proto breach FG can take down a tank in 1 shot? Really...really... Yup Ive done it several times If it did, I would use it. It didn't one shot tanks in 1.7 and it doesn't 1 shot in 1.8 Well your doing something wrong because it works for me Oh man, I love these people. So do i I keep getting told that im not blowing up tanks in 1 hit from a proto breach FG Wtf kill the vehicle then? santa claus?
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 189	Posted - 2014.04.15 14:46:00 - [73] - Quote Takahiro Kashuken wrote: Spkr4theDead wrote: [ Oh man, I love these people. So do i I keep getting told that im not blowing up tanks in 1 hit from a proto breach FG Wtf kill the vehicle then? santa claus? ACR scrub from 150m away. Duh. Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando / Do you even lift?
Hecarim Van Hohen Bullet Cluster Lokun Listamenn 1013	Posted - 2014.04.15 15:01:00 - [74] - Quote Alpha 443-6732 wrote: It's also awfully hard to die to a tank when you can pick and choose when he sees you and is able to shoot at you try taking cover for a change, or are you trying to lolspeedtank through his bullets? Well you can just camp those few points that are indoors with few chances to retaliate, against the HAV's and do this "pick and choose" thing. As for taking cover, sad thing is that you have to move from that cover eventually (well you can always just sit there and wait for the tanker to get bored) and, this might be a shocker so brace yourself, lolmurderfort insta gibs you and zooms away at ridiculous speed into the blood red sunset Truth is that few points are safe from the HAV's wrath and safe routes, covered (hard cover), crates or rocks (soft cover) or LOS break, between points are non-excistant excluding few exceptions and this is due to the fact that most of the maps consist of plains with few crates/rocks here and there to offer you that (false) feeling of security. "Now I am become Dev, the locker of threads." -CCP Logibro -2176440-
Magnus Amadeuss Praetoriani Classiarii Templares Praetoria Imperialis Excubitoris 838	Posted - 2014.04.15 15:18:00 - [75] - Quote Here is my big problem with tankers You say " vehicles > infantry" Tankers* say "Of course, buy this man a beer." You say"AV > vehicles" tankers* say "wtf did he just say?!?!?! Flame this man!!!" Tankers* see nothing wrong with killing infantry in the blink of an eye, but they do not want those tables turned on them.. they do not want balance. * - not all tankers are like this, but you know which ones I am talking about. Fixing swarms
Charlotte O'Dell Ostrakon Agency Gallente Federation 2418	Posted - 2014.04.15 15:23:00 - [76] - Quote really don't even care. id rather see new content than balancing for you whiny bitches. we all know the only time av thought it was good was 1.6 when tanks were getting ohk'd by AV nades. Charlotte O'Dell is the highest level unicorn!
Odigos Ellinas Mannar Focused Warfare Gallente Federation 83	Posted - 2014.04.15 15:35:00 - [77] - Quote The best AV is a vehicle. Skill into one. Only a good AV player can solo a vehicle. Infantry AV is more to support friendly vehicles against enemy vehicles. Infantry AV can deny a area to a vehicle. The main problem for imbalance is that only a small part of players have skilled vehicles. And most of the time they are in the same squad.2 militia rail guns in co op can destroy any solo proto HAV. Buy militia HAV\s learn to use them work in a squad and you will have good games.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6748	Posted - 2014.04.15 15:42:00 - [78] - Quote Charlotte O'Dell wrote: really don't even care. id rather see new content than balancing for you whiny bitches. we all know the only time av thought it was good was 1.6 when tanks were getting ohk'd by AV nades. inb4 facts. AVers (myself included) were calling for vehicle buffs as well. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Alena Ventrallis PAND3M0N1UM Top Men. 1184	Posted - 2014.04.15 16:26:00 - [79] - Quote Okay then OP. If one AV should always win against one tank, then AV weapons should remove your ability to fit a sidearm. Then one infantry can always win against your one AV. Sorry buddy, if you want your rock to always win against scissors, then you should always lose to paper. Of course, this is asinine. It would be dumb to remove your ability to fit a sidearm, right? After all, light weapons are far superior to a sidearm, aren't they? You can fight back, sure, but not nearly as well as with a light weapon. Can you not see that THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE FOR TANKS TOO? The issue is that large turrets should have always been about destroying vehicles and never about killing infantry. As light weapons are to killing infantry, so too should large turrets (including blaster) should be about killing vehicles. Now in order to combat infantry, tanks should have to make room to fit small turrets, which are it's "sidearms" so to speak. This requires people to make sacrifices in order to effectively combat infantry. Which leads to dynamic battles with tanks taking 3 AV to kill, while simultaneously needing 3 people to effectively engage all hostiles and not just vehicles. That's what you get!! - DA Rick
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6751	Posted - 2014.04.15 16:54:00 - [80] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Okay then OP. If one AV should always win against one tank, then AV weapons should remove your ability to fit a sidearm. Then one infantry can always win against your one AV. Sorry buddy, if you want your rock to always win against scissors, then you should always lose to paper. Of course, this is asinine. It would be dumb to remove your ability to fit a sidearm, right? After all, light weapons are far superior to a sidearm, aren't they? You can fight back, sure, but not nearly as well as with a light weapon. Can you not see that THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE FOR TANKS TOO? The issue is that large turrets should have always been about destroying vehicles and never about killing infantry. As light weapons are to killing infantry, so too should large turrets (including blaster) should be about killing vehicles. Now in order to combat infantry, tanks should have to make room to fit small turrets, which are it's "sidearms" so to speak. This requires people to make sacrifices in order to effectively combat infantry. Which leads to dynamic battles with tanks taking 3 AV to kill, while simultaneously needing 3 people to effectively engage all hostiles and not just vehicles. The only way to balance AV not being able to carry sidearms would be to make AVers completely immune to vehicle turrets. Let's not go there. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND

lDocHollidayl Ancient Exiles. Dirt Nap Squad. 537	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:15:00 - [81] - Quote ROMULUS H3X wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. AV is perfectly fine once my passive's regain themselves and my Forge shoots on time. The myth of 3 AV's to take out 1 tank is so wrong. I am one AV specialist and I usually take out more than a dozen vehicles in one game.. Patience is key. I call BS. 6 vehicles a game...lol. A LAV abandoned at the letter does not count. The math is simple...1 AV..."sits,waits,hunt,traps" a tank. While doing this the tank kills 10 to 15 players. AV finally gets him. Team tank is winning 15 to 1. Every AV'er is one less red dot that shoots back...unless a skilled commando. The price or risk to run the tank needs to increase.
Temias Mercurial Knights Of Ender Galactic Skyfleet Empire 56	Posted - 2014.04.15 17:41:00 - [82] - Quote Until we get ADV and PRO vehicles (previous and new ones), everything regarding damage should remain relatively the same. Proto AV vs Proto Tanks should be a fair and drawn out fight, while Proto AV vs STD Tanks should more or less obliterate them. Also, when this happens, several factors will have to be adjusted accordingly (whatever they may be).
Alena Ventrallis PAND3M0N1UM Top Men. 1185	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:22:00 - [83] - Quote Atiim wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: Okay then OP. If one AV should always win against one tank, then AV weapons should remove your ability to fit a sidearm. Then one infantry can always win against your one AV. Sorry buddy, if you want your rock to always win against scissors, then you should always lose to paper. Of course, this is asinine. It would be dumb to remove your ability to fit a sidearm, right? After all, light weapons are far superior to a sidearm, aren't they? You can fight back, sure, but not nearly as well as with a light weapon. Can you not see that THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE FOR TANKS TOO? The issue is that large turrets should have always been about destroying vehicles and never about killing infantry. As light weapons are to killing infantry, so too should large turrets (including blaster) should be about killing vehicles. Now in order to combat infantry, tanks should have to make room to fit small turrets, which are it's "sidearms" so to speak. This requires people to make sacrifices in order to effectively combat infantry. Which leads to dynamic battles with tanks taking 3 AV to kill, while simultaneously needing 3 people to effectively engage all hostiles and not just vehicles. The only way to balance AV not being able to carry sidearms would be to make AVers completely immune to vehicle turrets. Let's not go there. I don't want it to go there. But this is why the assertion that one AV soloing any vehicle is wrong. Because if that same logic applied to AV vs infantry makes things unbalanced, then that logic would make V vs AV unbalanced. That's what you get!! - DA Rick
Fox Gaden Immortal Guides 2942	Posted - 2014.04.15 22:43:00 - [84] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: If you don't know how to solo kills tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to bait tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to ambush tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to get tanks by surprise, you don't know how to AV. If you need to cry for AV buff, you don't know how to AV. I am open to major AV buff once vehicles get the variety back. Also more direct and indirect AV weaponry to get the rock paper scissors, not rock paper nuke. If they donGÇÖt know that, they should read my Guide. Hand/Eye coordination cannot be taught. For everything else there is the Learning Coalition.
Harpyja Molon Labe. General Tso's Alliance 1589	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:12:00 - [85] - Quote Magnus Amadeuss wrote: Here is my big problem with tankers You say " vehicles > infantry" Tankers* say "Of course, buy this man a beer." You say"AV > vehicles" tankers* say "wtf did he just say?!?!?! Flame this man!!!" Tankers* see nothing wrong with killing infantry in the blink of an eye, but they do not want those tables turned on them.. they do not want balance. * - not all tankers are like this, but you know which ones I am talking about. That's not even what the "rock paper scissors" should look like. It should be: AI tanks (blaster) > infantry > AV infantry > AV tanks (missile/railgun) > AI tanks. Missile/railgun tanks are fine in the infantry vs tank balance because they aren't as capable as blaster tanks at killing infantry. Why am I forced to retreat in my missile tank when fatman pulls out his forge gun? Because it's balanced (for AV vs tanks, railguns are still incredibly OP for tank vs tank). I can kill other infantry, but not so much... I'd get more kills if I ran on the ground. Blasters need to see a damage nerf of about 33%. That way their AV potential is back to a low point as it was before the hardener nerf. Through the hardener nerf, blasters got back what they had lost for AV, which was the only thing balancing them. Good AI should mean bad AV. Currently blasters are good at both. "By His light, and His will" - The Scriptures, Gheinok the First, 12:32
Eko Sol Strange Playings 159	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:26:00 - [86] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. How about I put it this way. I run a Anti Armor fit where I switch out my light weapon with a MLT AR, my grenade for a ADV packed AV nade, and my equipment with a basic RE. It costs like 5k Would you believe that since I started doing this I have taken out some of the best tankers in the game. Run behind them, throw as many re's on the weak spot that you can and throw your nades and detonate the RE's. Yes, sometimes I lose 5 fits doing this before I get cheaper. The most I ever lost trying to get a tank was 9 without getting a tank. I get pure joy in seeing tankers look at the kill screen and it reads "Front Line" and "Remote Explosive". AV is balanced. People just need to get over the fact that you can't be good at everything and sometimes you get nullified by a tank.
Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 3	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:33:00 - [87] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. How about I put it this way. I run a Anti Armor fit where I switch out my light weapon with a MLT AR, my grenade for a ADV packed AV nade, and my equipment with a basic RE. It costs like 5k Would you believe that since I started doing this I have taken out some of the best tankers in the game. Run behind them, throw as many re's on the weak spot that you can and throw your nades and detonate the RE's. Yes, sometimes I lose 5 fits doing this before I get cheaper. The most I ever lost trying to get a tank was 9 without getting a tank. I get pure joy in seeing tankers look at the kill screen and it reads "Anti Armor" and "Remote Explosive". AV is balanced. People just need to get over the fact that you can't be good at everything and sometimes you get nullified by a tank. What I've gotten from reading most of these posts/threads is that AV don't want to be "good at everything", but rather they just expect to be effective at what they've chosen to specialize in.
Eko Sol Strange Playings 159	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:35:00 - [88] - Quote Mojo XXXIII wrote: What I've gotten from reading most of these posts/threads is that AV don't want to be "good at everything", but rather they expect to be effective at what they've chosen to specialize in. I agree with this. Some people just aren't good at it and some aren't able to accept losing a fit or two or 5 in order to get the tank. If the it's a really good tanker than face the fact you might not be good enough at AV. Not to mention that it is situational. If you are playing solo and see two forgers shooting at it, just get one or two RE"s on it. When it finally gets down to half armor then detonate it. No reason to kill it outright.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6767	Posted - 2014.04.15 23:51:00 - [89] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: How about I put it this way. I run a Anti Armor fit where I switch out my light weapon with a MLT AR, my grenade for a ADV packed AV nade, and my equipment with a basic RE. It costs like 5k Would you believe that since I started doing this I have taken out some of the best tankers in the game. Run behind them, throw as many re's on the weak spot that you can and throw your nades and detonate the RE's. Yes, sometimes I lose 5 fits doing this before I get cheaper. The most I ever lost trying to get a tank was 9 without getting a tank. I get pure joy in seeing tankers look at the kill screen and it reads "Front Line" and "Remote Explosive". AV is balanced. People just need to get over the fact that you can't be good at everything and sometimes you get nullified by a tank. Well despite the fact that this entire statement is anecdotal and because of such is not credible, I'm going to bite down anyways. First, who are the "best tankers in the game" that are being killed by you? I seriously want names, because if your killing "some of the best tankers in the game" that would technically make me the best tanker in the game... which would be hilariously ironic to say the least. My sarcasm aside, do you honestly expect me to believe that anyone in a vehicle worth half their salt would die to a Remote Explosive trap? A good tanker doesn't need to use 1st Person view, so they can always see the person arming the REs. Arming a RE takes about 1-2 seconds, so multiply that by 3 (the amount required to kill an HAV without it's base shields) and that's about 3-5 seconds. The average Human reaction time is .215ms, meaning you have to be about 15x dumber than the average human being to be killed by Remote Explosives. That's pretty much mental retardation right there. (then again, this is the pilot community were talking about). There are crappy AVers in the game, just as there are crappy players who are Pilots, Heavies, Scouts, Logis, etc. This is a fact. However, the line between being underpowered and being terrible is easy to see. In fact, here's some math and actual evidence proving that the whole V/AV concept is still broken. Though for the sake of my own sanity and profit, I have a proposition to make. Your Starter Fit with REs against my HAV. The winner, gets 50m ISK and has to admit that they were wrong in a public thread. How about it? #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Eko Sol Strange Playings 159	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:06:00 - [90] - Quote Atiim wrote: Eko Sol wrote: How about I put it this way. I run a Anti Armor fit where I switch out my light weapon with a MLT AR, my grenade for a ADV packed AV nade, and my equipment with a basic RE. It costs like 5k Would you believe that since I started doing this I have taken out some of the best tankers in the game. Run behind them, throw as many re's on the weak spot that you can and throw your nades and detonate the RE's. Yes, sometimes I lose 5 fits doing this before I get cheaper. The most I ever lost trying to get a tank was 9 without getting a tank. I get pure joy in seeing tankers look at the kill screen and it reads "Front Line" and "Remote Explosive". AV is balanced. People just need to get over the fact that you can't be good at everything and sometimes you get nullified by a tank. Well despite the fact that this entire statement is anecdotal and because of such is not credible, I'm going to bite down anyways. First, who are the "best tankers in the game" that are being killed by you? I seriously want names, because if your killing "some of the best tankers in the game" that would technically make me the best tanker in the game... which would be hilariously ironic to say the least. My sarcasm aside, do you honestly expect me to believe that anyone in a vehicle worth half their salt would die to a Remote Explosive trap? A good tanker doesn't need to use 1st Person view, so they can always see the person arming the REs. Arming a RE takes about 1-2 seconds, so multiply that by 3 (the amount required to kill an HAV without it's base shields) and that's about 3-5 seconds. The average Human reaction time is .215ms, meaning you have to be about 15x dumber than the average human being to be killed by Remote Explosives. That's pretty much mental retardation right there. (then again, this is the pilot community were talking about). There are crappy AVers in the game, just as there are crappy players who are Pilots, Heavies, Scouts, Logis, etc. This is a fact. However, the line between being underpowered and being terrible is easy to see. In fact, here's some math and actual evidence proving that the whole V/AV concept is still broken. Though for the sake of my own sanity and profit, I have a proposition to make. Your Starter Fit with REs against my HAV. The winner, gets 50m ISK and has to admit that they were wrong in a public thread. How about it? This is so silly. First off, RE traps aren't just RE's. I didn't say that I dealt ALL of the damage. I just finished them off. You think I just run up, pop a bunch of RE's, throw some nades, and then detonate? Well, yes, sometimes this has happened. Other times, I get one RE on and die. Then a second and Die. Then someone fluxes the tank, I toss a nade or two and boom it's over. It isn't a one on one. If it's one on one I run my cloaked scout and wait for the right moment. BTW, did you know if run up from behind while cloaked you can get a whole RE on without being spotted by the driver. Then you get a second one on the week spot. No, that isn't 3k damage...it's much more. I've taken over 5k HP on armor with this. I then throw the nades and detonate. Sometimes I have to wait until I see at least one set of swarms. I play it by ear. Names, sure: G P Machine L OST Those are the two best tankers besides SouthPac and possibly Aggitated Bunny. Cloak Wolf Rider is likely the best I have ever seen in the game. There are a few others that are in the top of the list on my contacts list but can't remember which ones they are exactly until I run into them. I can also, fairly, argue that I haven't gone against every tanker there is. I also don't always run AV. You think I just just run around AV the whole time hunting tanks? The answer is no. Sometimes, early in an ambush, I get a great spot for sniping b/c I run SSD and can get a DS out very quickly. If they already have two tanks out then I'm safe from my tower...so are all of the forge gunners and thale snipers hoping someone would put an uplink on that tower. Other times the tanks can't get to the null effectively or aren't good enough for met to care to take out. Or others are taking them out without any issues. I just happen to be effective with my RE and AV Nade strategy at the right times. The bet and the call out is absolutely stupid. Not only does it make little sense but why would anyone give ISK for it. I don't care if I can't get your tank. It doesn't make it imbalanced. It just means you are a better tanker than I am at Infantry AV. I think you are losing your grip on this. If you AV there is a reality that your 5k fit might go bye bye. Sometimes I run my cloaked scout one that hits 20k but that's only when I know it might get hairy and I want a risky and fun challenge. Relax, it's just a game. AV is balanced it's just hard. You asking for names is absurd and is just a way for your to feed your ego. You'll likely tell me that those tankers aren't good. Fine. You are entitled to that. Also remember that I don't call a tanker skilled because of how they handle my AV. I call them skilled b/c of how they handle EVERYTHING. ON TOP OF ALL OF THAT. When I run my 3x dmg mod swarms and an ADS gets only one kill because 1 to 2 hits by my swarm cuz it to run then that tells me that it's balanced. I don't have to destroy a vehicle for AV to be balanced. Just nullifying them is more than enough.

Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:12:00 - [91] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: What I've gotten from reading most of these posts/threads is that AV don't want to be "good at everything", but rather they expect to be effective at what they've chosen to specialize in. I agree with this. Some people just aren't good at it and some aren't able to accept losing a fit or two or 5 in order to get the tank. If the it's a really good tanker than face the fact you might not be good enough at AV. Not to mention that it is situational. If you are playing solo and see two forgers shooting at it, just get one or two RE"s on it. When it finally gets down to half armor then detonate it. No reason to kill it outright. It would seem to me that there should be several different options available for a dedicated AV. REs might work well for some people, but they shouldn't be the only effective way to deal with a tank. Also, if a player choses to dump millions of SP into Swarm Launcher Skills (for example), and ISK into Proto Swarm Launchers, to the exclusion of all other skills (potentially sacrificing a degree of survivability against infantry in the process), I don't think it is unreasonable for them to expect to be able to... oh, I don't know... maybe actually be able to kill a tank by themselves, and not just help someone else kill a tank, or require the help of others to kill a tank. The player needs to feel that there is a suitable reward for their investment, and for the grind that they've spent to get there. Otherwise, they'll just get discouraged and quit because, well, what was the point? Right now it just seems like "Great, I've spent hundreds of hours and all my ISK specializing in AV, now if I only had a couple of like-minded teammates, who just happen to be specialized in different, yet complimentary AV, we might be able to get together and scare a tank away!" So, why bother specializing in AV at all, when a player could be more effective at just about anything else, with far less effort and investment, and for far greater rewards at the end of the battle? /my $0.02
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6767	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:35:00 - [92] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: I don't want it to go there. But this is why the assertion that one AV soloing any vehicle is wrong. Because if that same logic applied to AV vs infantry makes things unbalanced, then that logic would make V vs AV unbalanced. The assertion that AVers should solo is based on the fact that we sacrifice our primary (which is the majority of your AP capabilities) in exchange for the ability to reasonably destroy vehicles. That sacrifice is relative to the AP sacrifices that a Large Missile and/or 80GJ Railgun Turret user make to be effective against vehicles. So by your logic, Large Missiles and 80GJ Railguns are just as AP as they are AV, and as such need a complete overhaul and should never be able to destroy Infantry units. Sacrificing something in this game is never an absolute sacrifice. While it is extremely difficult because of a sacrifice, it is never impossible to do something. And before you talk about how giving up your primary isn't a sufficient sacrifice in terms of AV, I'll paste this from another thread here: Atiim wrote: Assuming equal skill here: Kaalakiota Rail Rifle vs. Kaalakiota Magsec SMG... Who wins? Ishukone Assault Rail Rifle vs. Ishukone Assault SMG... Who wins? Core Breach Mass Driver vs. Core Flaylock Pistol.. Who wins? Carthum Assault Scrambler Rifle vs. Carthum Assault Scrambler Pistol... Who Wins? I know where my money's at. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Eko Sol Strange Playings 159	Posted - 2014.04.16 00:36:00 - [93] - Quote Mojo XXXIII wrote: Eko Sol wrote: Mojo XXXIII wrote: What I've gotten from reading most of these posts/threads is that AV don't want to be "good at everything", but rather they expect to be effective at what they've chosen to specialize in. I agree with this. Some people just aren't good at it and some aren't able to accept losing a fit or two or 5 in order to get the tank. If the it's a really good tanker than face the fact you might not be good enough at AV. Not to mention that it is situational. If you are playing solo and see two forgers shooting at it, just get one or two RE"s on it. When it finally gets down to half armor then detonate it. No reason to kill it outright. It would seem to me that there should be several different options available for a dedicated AV. REs might work well for some people, but they shouldn't be the only effective way to deal with a tank. Also, if a player choses to dump millions of SP into Swarm Launcher Skills (for example), and ISK into Proto Swarm Launchers, to the exclusion of all other skills (potentially sacrificing a degree of survivability against infantry in the process), I don't think it is unreasonable for them to expect to be able to... oh, I don't know... maybe actually be able to kill a tank by themselves, and not just help someone else kill a tank, or require the help of others to kill a tank. The player needs to feel that there is a suitable reward for their investment, and for the grind that they've spent to get there. Otherwise, they'll just get discouraged and quit because, well, what was the point? Right now it just seems like "Great, I've spent hundreds of hours and all my ISK specializing in AV, now if I only had a couple of like-minded teammates, who just happen to be specialized in different, yet complimentary AV, we might be able to get together and scare a tank away!" So, why bother specializing in AV at all, when a player could be more effective at just about anything else, with far less effort and investment, and for far greater rewards at the end of the battle? /my $0.02 So here is what my agree but with caveat statement: There needs to be a gear capped/no Vehicle mode. I agree with the fact that a newer player pumps hours, isk, and SP into swarms and "awww, shucks, no good" shouldn't be an issue. That being said, I don't think it's unreasonable to put a squad finder squad up saying "need AV'ers running bush grind". This is an MMO so team efforts are a given just like the party system in other games. I promise, there have been some decent tankers that had ishy blubrys and lost tanks because they had no infantry support. I know this because you can see it or hear about it in chat.
Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 5	Posted - 2014.04.16 01:08:00 - [94] - Quote I will agree that when it comes to CASUAL, non-specialized AV players, such as a regular infantry player who switches temporarily to his AV suit in response to the appearance of a vehicle on the field, or a player who has split his SP allotment between Assault and AV, for example, SHOULD require teamwork to eliminate a tank. But I see no reason why a SPECIALIZED, dedicated AV build, that has sacrificed effectiveness in all other areas, should not (at least) be capable of taking out the same vehicle by themselves, regardless of which AV weapon he has chosen to specialize in. Assuming a comparable level of skill between the players, of course. Taking out vehicles is that character's sole reason for existing, after all, so it stands to reason that they should be more effective at it, since they, by specializing, are inherently less effective at everything else. It is what they are built to do, they should not REQUIRE help to serve their sole purpose for existing on the battlefield. Otherwise, it is simply not worth the investment to specialize.
Alena Ventrallis PAND3M0N1UM Top Men. 1190	Posted - 2014.04.16 01:36:00 - [95] - Quote Atiim wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I don't want it to go there. But this is why the assertion that one AV soloing any vehicle is wrong. Because if that same logic applied to AV vs infantry makes things unbalanced, then that logic would make V vs AV unbalanced. The assertion that AVers should solo is based on the fact that we sacrifice our primary (which is the majority of your AP capabilities) in exchange for the ability to reasonably destroy vehicles. That sacrifice is relative to the AP sacrifices that a Large Missile and/or 80GJ Railgun Turret user make to be effective against vehicles. So by your logic, Large Missiles and 80GJ Railguns are just as AP as they are AV, and as such need a complete overhaul and should never be able to destroy Infantry units. Sacrificing something in this game is never an absolute sacrifice. While it is extremely difficult because of a sacrifice, it is never impossible to do something. And before you talk about how giving up your primary isn't a sufficient sacrifice in terms of AV, I'll paste this from another thread here: Atiim wrote: Assuming equal skill here: Kaalakiota Rail Rifle vs. Kaalakiota Magsec SMG... Who wins? Ishukone Assault Rail Rifle vs. Ishukone Assault SMG... Who wins? Core Breach Mass Driver vs. Core Flaylock Pistol.. Who wins? Carthum Assault Scrambler Rifle vs. Carthum Assault Scrambler Pistol... Who Wins? I know where my money's at. The issue here is that AV wants to completely dominate vehicles while still having the ability to defend themselves from infantry. As Ive stated before, it absolutely should take 2-3 dedicated AV to kill my tank. But I should have great difficulty engaging those AV without fitting small turrets. Small turrets are my tanks analogous sidearms, which should allow my tank to engage AV just as AV has a sidearm to engage infantry. As an Eve example, it should take multiple frigates to kill my battleship. But my battleship should have issues engaging those frigates without fitting small drones. That's what you get!! - DA Rick
Zaaeed Massani RisingSuns Dark Taboo 190	Posted - 2014.04.16 02:14:00 - [96] - Quote Eko Sol wrote: When I run my 3x dmg mod swarms and an ADS gets only one kill because 1 to 2 hits by my swarm cuz it to run then that tells me that it's balanced. I don't have to destroy a vehicle for AV to be balanced. Just nullifying them is more than enough. Ok, let me turn that on its ear for you... Eko Sol wrote: I don't have to destroy a clone for vehicles to be balanced. Just nullifying them is more than enough. Do you believe this statement? Yes or no. If yes, then large blaster tanks are OP...because they kill infantry before they even have a chance to run. Tanks have time to run for cover unless double teamed...but we're talking 1v1, so that's a different issue. If no, then you're a hypocrite. Just sayin. Proud Federal Marine & Republic Commando / Do you even lift?
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6768	Posted - 2014.04.16 02:19:00 - [97] - Quote @Eko Sol Don't see how being able to place 1 RE before cloaking means anything, as there is still an audible sound that plays as you arm the REs. Considering how Flux Grenades have a 7.2m radius, you have to be within 7m to hit the HAV, which is a pilot error. As we all know, an enemy's lack of competence is not a point of balance. Furthermore, if you need multiple players for your tactic to succeed, it is too situational to viable tactic, and should be disregarded. Let's see here. According to DUSTBoard, L OST is not a real character, so there must be a serious typo there, and from my assessment Cloak Wolf Rider is a pubstar (a player who is in-capable of performing well in a competitive environment), though I probably just caught him on a bad day (most likely the case). However, the best tankers in this game are Sleepy Zan, Mr. Zitro, KenKaniff69, The Attorney General, thelegend 345, and maybe BoBThe843Cakeman. There are some more who should be on this list, but these tankers are the ones who have beaten the literal $#!t out of pretty much anyone, and have/can consistently gone above and beyond what is expected in a *competitive* environment. The fact that this has yet to work on anyone on this already discredits your "I've killed some of the best tankers in the game" statement. I understand you haven't played with every tanker in the game (neither have I), but if you are going to make a statement please attempt to put at least a slight amount of truth behind it. What you should be saying, is "I've killed a few $#!t tankers with this tactic, It does work guys!" (actually, that pretty much sums up what you've said to be honest). 5k? Try 50-235k (40k if you don't mind loosing some efficiency). Me asking for names wasn't an attempt to feed my ego, it was an attempt to prove whether or not you were exaggerating to the point of credibility loss (which you were). Yes, you do have to destroy a vehicle in-order for AV to be balanced. If a tanker (or any role for that matter) is not dying, they are not risking anything, which would go against CCP's balance philosophy (risk = reward). A role that makes it to where you never die would become a FoTM, as nobody likes dying in a FPS (or any game). Depending on the tanker's fitting, it's not hard. It's impossible. This has been proven with actual math. Considering how you've yet to present anything that's not anecdotal (and false), disputing this with you any further is pointless. Heck, you've already admitted to your assertion being realistic (that or admitting to me being a better player than you), so why even bother disputing you? Just disprove the actual math with something credible please. I'm not about to debate anything that's already been proven to be true. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6768	Posted - 2014.04.16 02:21:00 - [98] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: The issue here is that AV wants to completely dominate vehicles while still having the ability to defend themselves from infantry. As Ive stated before, it absolutely should take 2-3 dedicated AV to kill my tank. But I should have great difficulty engaging those AV without fitting small turrets. Small turrets are my tanks analogous sidearms, which should allow my tank to engage AV just as AV has a sidearm to engage infantry. As an Eve example, it should take multiple frigates to kill my battleship. But my battleship should have issues engaging those frigates without fitting small drones. Well Missile & Railgun users can dominate AP vehicles while still having the ability to fend themselves from infantry, so no there is no issue here. Both sacrifices are equal, and equality means balance. The only way that would even work is if Missiles and 80GJ Railguns couldn't harm infantry in the first place, which wouldn't be a good idea by any means. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 273	Posted - 2014.04.16 02:28:00 - [99] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game ... Think about this for a second. Can this be justified? Bang?
Mojo XXXIII Abandoned Privilege Top Men. 7	Posted - 2014.04.16 02:31:00 - [100] - Quote Alena Ventrallis wrote: Atiim wrote: Alena Ventrallis wrote: I don't want it to go there. But this is why the assertion that one AV soloing any vehicle is wrong. Because if that same logic applied to AV vs infantry makes things unbalanced, then that logic would make V vs AV unbalanced. The assertion that AVers should solo is based on the fact that we sacrifice our primary (which is the majority of your AP capabilities) in exchange for the ability to reasonably destroy vehicles. That sacrifice is relative to the AP sacrifices that a Large Missile and/or 80GJ Railgun Turret user make to be effective against vehicles. So by your logic, Large Missiles and 80GJ Railguns are just as AP as they are AV, and as such need a complete overhaul and should never be able to destroy Infantry units. Sacrificing something in this game is never an absolute sacrifice. While it is extremely difficult because of a sacrifice, it is never impossible to do something. And before you talk about how giving up your primary isn't a sufficient sacrifice in terms of AV, I'll paste this from another thread here: Atiim wrote: Assuming equal skill here: Kaalakiota Rail Rifle vs. Kaalakiota Magsec SMG... Who wins? Ishukone Assault Rail Rifle vs. Ishukone Assault SMG... Who wins? Core Breach Mass Driver vs. Core Flaylock Pistol.. Who wins? Carthum Assault Scrambler Rifle vs. Carthum Assault Scrambler Pistol... Who Wins? I know where my money's at. The issue here is that AV wants to completely dominate vehicles while still having the ability to defend themselves from infantry. As Ive stated before, it absolutely should take 2-3 dedicated AV to kill my tank. But I should have great difficulty engaging those AV without fitting small turrets. Small turrets are my tanks analogous sidearms, which should allow my tank to engage AV just as AV has a sidearm to engage infantry. As an Eve example, it should take multiple frigates to kill my battleship. But my battleship should have issues engaging those frigates without fitting small drones. Casual AV, yes, absolutely, but 2-3 DEDICATED AV, just to have the cpability to possibly take out one person in a tank? Hell no. Dedicated AV are the ones who actually SACRIFICE their ability to defend themselves from infantry, in order to be as effective as possible at one single task: killing tanks. DEDICATED AV are much rarer than casual AV and, if it required 2-3 of them to take out your tank, then you might as well be invincible. 1. The odds of any given team in a pub match having 3 DEDICATED AV, in the same squad and coordinating their efforts is quite slim 2. If it takes 3 DEDICATED AV to take out your tank, then it would take what, 5 or 6 casual AV? (if even possible, since casual AV probably wouldn't have the same level of equipment/skills. If it takes 3 Dedicated, all with proto equipment and mods, what chance would a bunch of casuals with militia equipment have of taking you out? None.) 3. Those same three Dedicated AV are, by their specialized nature, gimped versus your infantry so, while the three of them are concentrating thier efforts to take out just you, your team would essentially enjoy a two man advantage (or at least five, if they're only casual AV) There's a BIG difference between "casual" and "dedicated" AV. Casual should require teamwork, I will not dispute that, but dedicated is specifically optimized for taking out tanks, to the exclusion of all else, and should be effective at it. That's kind of the whole point in specializing in the first place.

bear90211 Nyain San Dirt Nap Squad. 200	Posted - 2014.04.16 02:33:00 - [101] - Quote THEAMAZING POTHEAD wrote: If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker.... Then why would the av specialist ever exist. The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er. You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank. This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks... 2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always. THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken. Because every AVer is sitting in a tank. Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!" Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing. If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games. You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you. Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time. Pothead is right. It was "Much" More balanced in 1.6 in my opinion, just then the AV needed a flat 20% Nerf or so, then it would be balanced. but! CCP messed it up and now you need 5 AV or 2 RE' Logis to take one out. sounds fun, right? My sig is suuper old.. now i rip faces with my HMG. looking for logies yo.btw #tacos
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 528	Posted - 2014.04.16 04:36:00 - [102] - Quote Fellow AVers, we can take a high ground here. We shouldn't ask for too much more by way of buffing AV or nerfing tanks. Balance is really close. The only things I would like to see is a RoF nerf on the blaster coupled with a damage buff to keep the same DPS vs tanks but less effective vs infantry, third AV grenade back, or a buff to it's damage, swarm velocity increse, and fix the skill bonus bug to get forge back to where it's suppose to be. Tanks ARE soloable now. Proof is in this video. If you want to hunt tanks alone, you need to use a combination of AV weapons to do it, you don't have to lay traps and wait, you can use an LAV to position yourselves. The fitting I used in that video cost 71k. All of that footage was shot in one night. We don't need tanks back to where they were prior to 1.6. Back then I could neutralize damn near any tank alone with only AV nades for MLT and Av Nades and Swarms for anything larger. See this video if you forgot how easy it was for a single dedicated AV guy to shut a tank down before the rebalance. If we demand too much than we are no different than the pilots who brought us 1.7. YouTube
Eko Sol Strange Playings 166	Posted - 2014.04.16 10:34:00 - [103] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Fellow AVers, we can take a high ground here. We shouldn't ask for too much more by way of buffing AV or nerfing tanks. Balance is really close. The only things I would like to see is a RoF nerf on the blaster coupled with a damage buff to keep the same DPS vs tanks but less effective vs infantry, third AV grenade back, or a buff to it's damage, swarm velocity increse, and fix the skill bonus bug to get forge back to where it's suppose to be. Tanks ARE soloable now. Proof is in this video. If you want to hunt tanks alone, you need to use a combination of AV weapons to do it, you don't have to lay traps and wait, you can use an LAV to position yourselves. The fitting I used in that video cost 71k. All of that footage was shot in one night. We don't need tanks back to where they were prior to 1.6. Back then I could neutralize damn near any tank alone with only AV nades for MLT and Av Nades and Swarms for anything larger. See this video if you forgot how easy it was for a single dedicated AV guy to shut a tank down before the rebalance. If we demand too much than we are no different than the pilots who brought us 1.7. Instead of swarms I do nades. Your video is spot on....SPOT ON!
ROCKO THE HELLHOUND Ultramarine Corp 43	Posted - 2014.04.16 11:44:00 - [104] - Quote hey OP - forgot the general intention of the Uprising 1.7 update? it was to make vehicles an essential, or at least largely present part of most battles, instead of the niche-playstyle of a small elite that it was before 1.7... . so, of course AV is now only for scaring vehicles away for a short time, laying traps or combined forces ambushes - instead of solo-player tank-assassinaitions! if you want that crap back, we would need even much lower prices for especially proto-tank-fits - losing a half-million ISK vehicle averagely every one match due to super fast vehicular-warfare-TTK , Jihad-Jeep BS, proficient Proxy-Mine-Traps or sudden tank-spam on the other team makes PRO-Tanking already an ISK-Sink - i say rather increase MLT-Vehicle cost, nerf MLT & STD modules & turrets - and call it a day!
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 276	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:25:00 - [105] - Quote ROCKO THE HELLHOUND wrote: hey OP - forgot the general intention of the Uprising 1.7 update? it was to make vehicles an essential, or at least largely present part of most battles, instead of the niche-playstyle of a small elite that it was before 1.7... . so, of course AV is now only for scaring vehicles away for a short time, laying traps or combined forces ambushes - instead of solo-player tank-assassinaitions! if you want that crap back, we would need even much lower prices for especially proto-tank-fits - losing a half-million ISK vehicle averagely every one match due to super fast vehicular-warfare-TTK , Jihad-Jeep BS, proficient Proxy-Mine-Traps or sudden tank-spam on the other team makes PRO-Tanking already an ISK-Sink - i say rather increase MLT-Vehicle cost, nerf MLT & STD modules & turrets - and call it a day! The hand-wringing doesn't add up. Think of every Ambush match you've played with and against Nyain San since 1.7. If AV were effective, then how is it that these matches are so consistently dominated by tanks? Even with the 2-tank limit, NS Tankers post zero-loss matches all-day, every-day. And you guys think infantry is to blame? Reread the fcking post. Nyain San tankers themselves are telling you it is too easy. Bang?*
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1284	Posted - 2014.04.16 12:57:00 - [106] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Fellow AVers, we can take a high ground here. We shouldn't ask for too much more by way of buffing AV or nerfing tanks. Balance is really close. The only things I would like to see is a RoF nerf on the blaster coupled with a damage buff to keep the same DPS vs tanks but less effective vs infantry, third AV grenade back, or a buff to it's damage, swarm velocity increse, and fix the skill bonus bug to get forge back to where it's suppose to be. Tanks ARE soloable now. Proof is in this video. If you want to hunt tanks alone, you need to use a combination of AV weapons to do it, you don't have to lay traps and wait, you can use an LAV to position yourselves. The fitting I used in that video cost 71k. All of that footage was shot in one night. We don't need tanks back to where they were prior to 1.6. Back then I could neutralize damn near any tank alone with only AV nades for MLT and Av Nades and Swarms for anything larger. See this video if you forgot how easy it was for a single dedicated AV guy to shut a tank down before the rebalance. If we demand too much than we are no different than the pilots who brought us 1.7. both videos are the perfect examples how to not drive a tank, thanks for making yourself look stupid. if you want to show some evidence, atleast show some properly fit and driven full hp tanks being shot by AV and not some scrubs not moving in the middle of several enemies or even crashing into walls. btw a proper fit max sp armor tank in 1.6 could absorb tripple damage modded swarms from a single person for 15 seconds and move on. if you do not know how this was done then you are simply not entitled to talk about 1.6 tanks because you simply have no clue.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 531	Posted - 2014.04.16 14:32:00 - [107] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Fellow AVers, we can take a high ground here. We shouldn't ask for too much more by way of buffing AV or nerfing tanks. Balance is really close. The only things I would like to see is a RoF nerf on the blaster coupled with a damage buff to keep the same DPS vs tanks but less effective vs infantry, third AV grenade back, or a buff to it's damage, swarm velocity increse, and fix the skill bonus bug to get forge back to where it's suppose to be. Tanks ARE soloable now. Proof is in this video. If you want to hunt tanks alone, you need to use a combination of AV weapons to do it, you don't have to lay traps and wait, you can use an LAV to position yourselves. The fitting I used in that video cost 71k. All of that footage was shot in one night. We don't need tanks back to where they were prior to 1.6. Back then I could neutralize damn near any tank alone with only AV nades for MLT and Av Nades and Swarms for anything larger. See this video if you forgot how easy it was for a single dedicated AV guy to shut a tank down before the rebalance. If we demand too much than we are no different than the pilots who brought us 1.7. both videos are the perfect examples how to not drive a tank, thanks for making yourself look stupid. if you want to show some evidence, atleast show some properly fit and driven full hp tanks being shot by AV and not some scrubs not moving in the middle of several enemies or even crashing into walls. btw a proper fit max sp armor tank in 1.6 could absorb tripple damage modded swarms from a single person for 15 seconds and move on. if you do not know how this was done then you are simply not entitled to talk about 1.6 tanks and tanks in general because you simply have no clue. I didn't catch all the names of the people I killed in that video, but is Big Burns from Escrow a Scrub? He lost two tanks to me that night. How about 8213? Not sure of his piloting skills, but I see him here quite a bit, so I have to asume he knows a little bit about the game. Like I said, every tank that went down in the first video took place in one night. You can beat your chest and declair what your eyes see is not true all you want, even insult me (classy), but it doesn't change the fact that those were tanks, of various hull types, various pilots, on various maps, although all in Ambush, and they all went down. And this super duper god tank from 1.6 you speak of must have been so super secret only know by the very few, the best, cool guy, super 1337 pilots, that it never crossed my path. In 1.6 it was rare that I even pulled proto AV, Most of the time ADV was all that was needed. Didn't your corp teach you to Have some Class, and act like you've been there? YouTube
Galthur Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 451	Posted - 2014.04.16 15:21:00 - [108] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: If you don't know how to solo kills tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to bait tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to ambush tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to get tanks by surprise, you don't know how to AV. If you need to cry for AV buff, you don't know how to AV. I am open to major AV buff once vehicles get the variety back. Also more direct and indirect AV weaponry to get the rock paper scissors, not rock paper nuke. Two words Plasma Cannon IRC guest keeps thinking I'm Obiwan
Jack McReady DUST University Ivy League 1290	Posted - 2014.04.16 15:49:00 - [109] - Quote ratamaq doc wrote: Jack McReady wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Fellow AVers, we can take a high ground here. We shouldn't ask for too much more by way of buffing AV or nerfing tanks. Balance is really close. The only things I would like to see is a RoF nerf on the blaster coupled with a damage buff to keep the same DPS vs tanks but less effective vs infantry, third AV grenade back, or a buff to it's damage, swarm velocity increse, and fix the skill bonus bug to get forge back to where it's suppose to be. Tanks ARE soloable now. Proof is in this video. If you want to hunt tanks alone, you need to use a combination of AV weapons to do it, you don't have to lay traps and wait, you can use an LAV to position yourselves. The fitting I used in that video cost 71k. All of that footage was shot in one night. We don't need tanks back to where they were prior to 1.6. Back then I could neutralize damn near any tank alone with only AV nades for MLT and Av Nades and Swarms for anything larger. See this video if you forgot how easy it was for a single dedicated AV guy to shut a tank down before the rebalance. If we demand too much than we are no different than the pilots who brought us 1.7. both videos are the perfect examples how to not drive a tank, thanks for making yourself look stupid. if you want to show some evidence, atleast show some properly fit and driven full hp tanks being shot by AV and not some scrubs not moving in the middle of several enemies or even crashing into walls. btw a proper fit max sp armor tank in 1.6 could absorb tripple damage modded swarms from a single person for 15 seconds and move on. if you do not know how this was done then you are simply not entitled to talk about 1.6 tanks and tanks in general because you simply have no clue. I didn't catch all the names of the people I killed in that video, but is Big Burns from Escrow a Scrub? He lost two tanks to me that night. How about 8213? Not sure of his piloting skills, but I see him here quite a bit, so I have to asume he knows a little bit about the game. Like I said, every tank that went down in the first video took place in one night. You can beat your chest and declair what your eyes see is not true all you want, even insult me (classy), but it doesn't change the fact that those were tanks, of various hull types, various pilots, on various maps, although all in Ambush, and they all went down. And this super duper god tank from 1.6 you speak of must have been so super secret only know by the very few, the best, cool guy, super 1337 pilots, that it never crossed my path. In 1.6 it was rare that I even pulled proto AV, Most of the time ADV was all that was needed. Didn't your corp teach you to Have some Class, and act like you've been there? lol oh well lets check the ambush tank hunting video, shall we analyze it? 1. unhardened, wasnt full hp & crashes into wall => scrub 2. unhardened, wasnt full hp & sitting in the open field doing nothing => scrub 3. militia tank which had remote explosive stacked on him already before, he charged right in front of you then was standing still. no comment 4. shield tank deep in armor already, true damage was done by another tank 5. unhardened shield tank with no booster sitting in the open with half shields => scrub 6. unhardened shield tank with no booster... and so on, we have a pattern here, most of them have a useless fit and do scrub moves because "its a tank". shall I continue? and just as I thought, you have no clue about 1.6 tanking. it was shown with vides and math was posted right in the forums when tank overhaul was announced, not my fault that you missed it.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 533	Posted - 2014.04.16 16:29:00 - [110] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: Jack McReady wrote: ratamaq doc wrote: ..snip.. Tanks ARE soloable now. Proof is in this video. If you want to hunt tanks alone, you need to use a combination of AV weapons to do it, you don't have to lay traps and wait, you can use an LAV to position yourselves. The fitting I used in that video cost 71k. All of that footage was shot in one night. We don't need tanks back to where they were prior to 1.6. Back then I could neutralize damn near any tank alone with only AV nades for MLT and Av Nades and Swarms for anything larger. See this video if you forgot how easy it was for a single dedicated AV guy to shut a tank down before the rebalance. If we demand too much than we are no different than the pilots who brought us 1.7. both videos are the perfect examples how to not drive a tank, thanks for making yourself look stupid. if you want to show some evidence, atleast show some properly fit and driven full hp tanks being shot by AV and not some scrubs not moving in the middle of several enemies or even crashing into walls. btw a proper fit max sp armor tank in 1.6 could absorb tripple damage modded swarms from a single person for 15 seconds and move on. if you do not know how this was done then you are simply not entitled to talk about 1.6 tanks and tanks in general because you simply have no clue. I didn't catch all the names of the people I killed in that video, but is Big Burns from Escrow a Scrub? He lost two tanks to me that night. How about 8213? Not sure of his piloting skills, but I see him here quite a bit, so I have to asume he knows a little bit about the game. Like I said, every tank that went down in the first video took place in one night. You can beat your chest and declair what your eyes see is not true all you want, even insult me (classy), but it doesn't change the fact that those were tanks, of various hull types, various pilots, on various maps, although all in Ambush, and they all went down. And this super duper god tank from 1.6 you speak of must have been so super secret only know by the very few, the best, cool guy, super 1337 pilots, that it never crossed my path. In 1.6 it was rare that I even pulled proto AV, Most of the time ADV was all that was needed. Didn't your corp teach you to Have some Class, and act like you've been there? lol oh well lets check the ambush tank hunting video, shall we analyze it? 1. unhardened, wasnt full hp & crashes into wall => scrub 2. unhardened, wasnt full hp & sitting in the open field doing nothing => scrub 3. militia tank which had remote explosive stacked on him already before, he charged right in front of you then was standing still. no comment 4. shield tank deep in armor already, true damage was done by another tank 5. unhardened shield tank with no booster sitting in the open with half shields => scrub 6. unhardened shield tank with no booster... and so on, we have a pattern here, most of them have a useless fit and do scrub moves because "its a tank". shall I continue? and just as I thought, you have no clue about 1.6 tanking. it was shown with vides and math was posted right in the forums when tank overhaul was announced, not my fault that you missed it. Sure lets do that. 1. I wasn't alone for this one, had a partner on my Small Rail armed with ADV swarm, probably a scrub. 2. I wasn't the only one on this one as well, but most of his damage was due to him shooting off the REs I placed on him, swarms finished him off. Scrub, but smart enough to know to remove REs himself in the back field, he just didn't move far enough into the back field for me to cover the ground to reengage. Unhardened, but looking at his reps, he was trying the other "op" tank fitting. 3. was a maddy, hardened, not a milita. The REs stacked on him were from a previous life of mine, which is why I triggered. His hardened maddy dropped to a total of 3 swarm volleys, 2 ADV Pack AV grenades, and 2 REs, while in 2 lives, all damage inflicted by me. 4. This was Big Burns gunlogi. He escaped the first engagement where something else did dent his shields and caused him to activate his hardener. I continued to pelt him until he got out of range, then chased him down to finish him off. I didn't get the tank kill with the final 1 swarm, 2 AV Nades, and 2 REs, but I did get the kill on him when he tried to jump out of his doomed gunlogi. He was not 'Deep into armor' at our final engagement. Unless you were talking about the missile gunlogi that got away. I disengaged that guy because there was a Rail on the mountain that would've taken my LAV out if I continued to pursue the missile gunlogi. That tank possibly only survived because the game ended before I could finish him off. 5. Maybe you confused this one with 4? This was 8213, he was deep into armor, but that was from a prior from me where the only thing that saved him was a SG to the back while I was fighting him, which is why at the start of that clip I know right where to reengage. Sure we could go on and one, but your statement implies that every tank on the field should be a fully fit gunlogi/maddy piloted by the best tankers in the game, and that all balance should be based around that. This is not the reality on the ground. I don't mind as much if one of them gets the better of me because he is invested in both ISK and SP into his role, and it is still a toss up vs me because I am coming at him with the best light infantry has to offer. Sometimes I win, sometimes I lose as it should be. I'm really not clear about the argument you're trying to make here, other than just to insult me for some reason? Most offer words, which are worth next to nothing, some offer math, which are only worth their values, I offer footage of real battle situations and you cry "but scrubs and maths and you're stupid" YouTube

Commander Tzu L.O.T.I.S. D.E.F.I.A.N.C.E 122	Posted - 2014.04.16 16:33:00 - [111] - Quote Is this still a thing? Hardeners get reduced to pre-1.7 resist bonus and AV is actually effective now and people still complain? It was all those builds, Uprising 1.0-1.6, that spoiled the **** out of AVers. Now all they want is to sit on a roof spamming lock-on missiles and killing everything in sight before they can react =/. There are plenty of people who are badass at AV and can 1v1 vehicles. But, just like with tanks or ads, if your blueberries are crap and the enemy has you redlined you are screwed anyway.
The Attorney General 2579	Posted - 2014.04.16 16:39:00 - [112] - Quote Jack McReady wrote: and just as I thought, you have no clue about 1.6 tanking. it was shown with vides and math was posted right in the forums when tank overhaul was announced, not my fault that you missed it. For a guy who only cries, that is a lot of calling other people scrubs. Then again, sitting on top of a tower with 400m autolocking rockets of death was the pinnacle of skill right? Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
Adipem Nothi Nos Nothi 284	Posted - 2014.04.16 17:14:00 - [113] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Jack McReady wrote: and just as I thought, you have no clue about 1.6 tanking. it was shown with vides and math was posted right in the forums when tank overhaul was announced, not my fault that you missed it. For a guy who only cries, that is a lot of calling other people scrubs. Then again, sitting on top of a tower with 400m autolocking rockets of death was the pinnacle of skill right? Dogs who can skateboard. Squirrels who can ski. But a Tanker discussing skill!? This is something we must see. Bang?
The Attorney General 2583	Posted - 2014.04.16 17:20:00 - [114] - Quote Adipem Nothi wrote: Dogs who skateboard; Squirrels who ski. But a Tanker discussing skill? That's something we must see. Oh look, another crying infantry. If only someone could teach you how to kill tanks. I'll get on my heavy alt and teach you for only 100 million ISK. Mr. Hybrid Vayu.
MarasdF Loron Fatal Absolution Dirt Nap Squad. 410	Posted - 2014.04.16 18:38:00 - [115] - Quote Galthur wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: If you don't know how to solo kills tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to bait tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to ambush tanks, you don't know how to AV. If you don't know how to get tanks by surprise, you don't know how to AV. If you need to cry for AV buff, you don't know how to AV. I am open to major AV buff once vehicles get the variety back. Also more direct and indirect AV weaponry to get the rock paper scissors, not rock paper nuke. Two words Plasma Cannon I read a lot of people saying it's good for killing tanks. I have actually said it's UP weapon on many occasions but then PLC users come and bash me for calling it UP. R.I.P. Pre-1.7 Vehicles & AV, you will be missed.
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6784	Posted - 2014.04.16 18:47:00 - [116] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Jack McReady wrote: and just as I thought, you have no clue about 1.6 tanking. it was shown with vides and math was posted right in the forums when tank overhaul was announced, not my fault that you missed it. For a guy who only cries, that is a lot of calling other people scrubs. Then again, sitting on top of a tower with 400m autolocking rockets of death was the pinnacle of skill right? It seems to be on the same level as 150m Hit-Scan weapons with enough DPS to kill someone in 1-2 seconds, while also touting 4-8k eHP and over 80% resistances. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Atiim Living Like Larry Schwag 6786	Posted - 2014.04.16 18:50:00 - [117] - Quote The Attorney General wrote: Adipem Nothi wrote: Dogs who skateboard; Squirrels who ski. But a Tanker discussing skill? That's something we must see. Oh look, another crying infantry. If only someone could teach you how to kill tanks. I'll get on my heavy alt and teach you for only 100 million ISK. You seem to be mistaking crying for call you out on how hypocritical your statement was. It's the latter. #LivingLikeLarry [s]Text[/s] <-------- That's how you make a strike-through -HAND
Eko Sol Strange Playings 171	Posted - 2014.04.16 19:55:00 - [118] - Quote This thread is great. I think there are like 3 people tied for QQ kings here. Ratamaq responded appropriately and with all of the answer you need. Any further discussion on the opposing side is completely unnecessary. From what I gather: 1) People want AV that is effective at taking out tanks in a 1v1 equally as often as tanks get infantry 2) Anyone that ever gets taken out in a tank every time by an infantry unit is a scrub 3) There is no competition unless Atiim is in the match and says there is competition 4) Mojo is the only sensible one in his/her suggestion that a 100% dedicated AV fit should be able to 1v1 a tank. I would add that I could only agree with this if that unit had very limited effectiveness against infantry. An Anti-infantry tank has less effectiveness against an Anti-Tank/ADS vehicle. I think it is fair to say that no one should 1v1 a tank and then take out a half dozen infantry with ease. 5) Ratamaq SHOWS A VIDEO ON HOW TO DESTROY TANKS VIA AV and yet it is disputed. This is normally considered to be D-E-L-U-S-I-O-N 6) For a few weeks in a row Cloak Wolf Rider, L OST, and G P Machine were the top of the leader board in WP, K/D, etc. but supposedly they are just pub stompers and aren't actually good. 7) This is the most hilarious QQ thread ever. I really hope they buff AV. I really do. I want to see the look on the tankers face when they realize this and the absurd amount of other threads caused a buff to tanks. Message to CPM and CCP: I am telling you to not listen to these people. AV is finally balanced at about 90% if there were no bugs. Let's just fix the bugs.
IR Scifi Knights of Eternal Darkness League of Infamy 145	Posted - 2014.04.16 20:28:00 - [119] - Quote MarasdF Loron wrote: Galthur wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: I am open to major AV buff once vehicles get the variety back. Also more direct and indirect AV weaponry to get the rock paper scissors, not rock paper nuke. Two words Plasma Cannon I read a lot of people saying it's good for killing tanks. I have actually said it's UP weapon on many occasions but then PLC users come and bash me for calling it UP. They are semi effective on shield tanks if the driver is dumb enough to stick around but they are pathetically useless against most armor tanks. Between the reload time and bonus to shields they can usually out-rep the damage. Edit: It's possible that the commando bonus could make up for the reload speed issue, I'm skeptical but I'd be happy to be proven wrong.
ratamaq doc Onslaught Inc RISE of LEGION 536	Posted - 2014.04.16 20:39:00 - [120] - Quote IR Scifi wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: Galthur wrote: MarasdF Loron wrote: I am open to major AV buff once vehicles get the variety back. Also more direct and indirect AV weaponry to get the rock paper scissors, not rock paper nuke. Two words Plasma Cannon I read a lot of people saying it's good for killing tanks. I have actually said it's UP weapon on many occasions but then PLC users come and bash me for calling it UP. They are semi effective on shield tanks if the driver is dumb enough to stick around but they are pathetically useless against most armor tanks. Between the reload time and bonus to shields they can usually out-rep the damage. Edit: It's possible that the commando bonus could make up for the reload speed issue, I'm skeptical but I'd be happy to be proven wrong. I think the problem with the PLC is that it doesn't scale as well as the swarm launcher. Where the PLC gets the standard 5% increase between tiers, the Swarm gets an extra missle which amounts to a 25% then 50% increase in damage. This makes the PLC better vs shields at STD, but the swarm better vs shields at Proto due to raw damage output negating the shield bonus/resistence. That being said, I'm not a PLC user and only pulled it out for laughs when the whole squad is drunk. So it may be a great weapon in the proper hands. YouTube



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