If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker....
Then why would the av specialist ever exist.
The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er.

You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank.
This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks...
2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always.

THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken.
Because every AVer is sitting in a tank.
Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!"
Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing.
If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games.
You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you.

Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time.

If you don't know how to solo kills tanks, you don't know how to AV.
If you don't know how to bait tanks, you don't know how to AV.
If you don't know how to ambush tanks, you don't know how to AV.
If you don't know how to get tanks by surprise, you don't know how to AV.
If you need to cry for AV buff, you don't know how to AV.

I am open to major AV buff once vehicles get the variety back.
Also more direct and indirect AV weaponry to get the rock paper scissors, not rock paper nuke.

Didn't ask me but my 0.02 ISK goes to proto minmando.

If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker....

1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks...

The bad news is all of them will QQ on the forums about how hard it is to AV a tank.


Welcome to Dust

SP doesn't make you a good AVer.

Swarms are not strictly speaking that bad..... I went up against a very canny swarmer yesterday who picked an entrench position with access to sight over a very open area, they coupled that with proxies by the gates to the compound.... I could not approach, and could not move across the open ground without having very potent swarm fire placed on me.

THAT is good AVing. Shutting down and limiting the movement of HAV. Killing and HAV is the eventual goal of course but winning trumps kills every time

Sorry, Bro. I like a lot of what you have to say, but on this you are wrong.

Anecdotal "this one time" shite doesn't change the facts:
* Tanks are OP
* AV is UP

What happened in that story there was that you f*cked up and lost a tank.
Pilot Error is the only way anyone ever loses a tank to infantry.

Thank God for stupid Pilots.
And thank God that smart Pilots like you f*ck up on occasion.

The bottom line is that you guys have too much room for error.

Awfully hard to hack points if you can't make it past the HAV's alive


I think you forgot to add the price of the suit that carries the said proto FG making it (in most cases anyways) more expensive than your ~70k HAV (which is impervious to small arms fire, moves faster than any suit and has the most EHP in the game while dishing out the most dps and has what, 2-3 soft counters and 2 hard counters?)

Please forgive me my tanker overlords for uttering these blasphemous words, have mercy

Well your doing something wrong because it works for me

Oh man, I love these people.

So do i

I keep getting told that im not blowing up tanks in 1 hit from a proto breach FG

Wtf kill the vehicle then? santa claus?

It's also awfully hard to die to a tank when you can pick and choose when he sees you and is able to shoot at you

try taking cover for a change, or are you trying to lolspeedtank through his bullets?

really don't even care.

id rather see new content than balancing for you whiny bitches.

we all know the only time av thought it was good was 1.6 when tanks were getting ohk'd by AV nades.

Okay then OP. If one AV should always win against one tank, then AV weapons should remove your ability to fit a sidearm. Then one infantry can always win against your one AV. Sorry buddy, if you want your rock to always win against scissors, then you should always lose to paper.

Of course, this is asinine. It would be dumb to remove your ability to fit a sidearm, right? After all, light weapons are far superior to a sidearm, aren't they? You can fight back, sure, but not nearly as well as with a light weapon. Can you not see that THIS IS HOW IT SHOULD BE FOR TANKS TOO? The issue is that large turrets should have always been about destroying vehicles and never about killing infantry. As light weapons are to killing infantry, so too should large turrets (including blaster) should be about killing vehicles.

Now in order to combat infantry, tanks should have to make room to fit small turrets, which are it's "sidearms" so to speak. This requires people to make sacrifices in order to effectively combat infantry. Which leads to dynamic battles with tanks taking 3 AV to kill, while simultaneously needing 3 people to effectively engage all hostiles and not just vehicles.

AV is perfectly fine once my passive's regain themselves and my Forge shoots on time.

The myth of 3 AV's to take out 1 tank is so wrong. I am one AV specialist and I usually take out more than a dozen vehicles in one game..

Patience is key.

The only way to balance AV not being able to carry sidearms would be to make AVers completely immune to vehicle turrets.

Let's not go there.

If you don't know how to solo kills tanks, you don't know how to AV.
If you don't know how to bait tanks, you don't know how to AV.
If you don't know how to ambush tanks, you don't know how to AV.
If you don't know how to get tanks by surprise, you don't know how to AV.
If you need to cry for AV buff, you don't know how to AV.

I am open to major AV buff once vehicles get the variety back.
Also more direct and indirect AV weaponry to get the rock paper scissors, not rock paper nuke.

Here is my big problem with tankers

You say " vehicles > infantry"

Tankers* say "Of course, buy this man a beer."

You say"AV > vehicles"

tankers* say "wtf did he just say?!?!?! Flame this man!!!"


Tankers* see nothing wrong with killing infantry in the blink of an eye, but they do not want those tables turned on them.. they do not want balance.

* - not all tankers are like this, but you know which ones I am talking about.

If a single av specialist can't kill a single tanker....
Then why would the av specialist ever exist.
The tanker is superior in every way, having better av than the av'er while having the best anti infantry in the game as well compared to the pathetic anti infantry of the av'er.

You could say that cost would be a good reason to use an av fit over a tank.
This is untrue for 2 reasons- 1. Obviously a proto av weapon, the only ones worth a single damn, are more expensive than tanks...
2. And more importantly since 1. Is likely to change, cost does not matter for us. Even if everyone had 10 mil isk we still wouldn't care about cost if we wanted to kill something. We'd just use the best option avaiable like always.

THIS. Is the reason av is completely broken.
Because every AVer is sitting in a tank.
Because you can't be selfish and say"well it should take 3 people to take me out! Because I spent 500k isk on this!"
Because when you do that, there's no reason those 3 people won't do the exact same thing you're doing.
If you can't deal with the fact that there is role SPECIFICALLY MADE to beat ONLY your role, and think it should take 3 or more of these guys WHOSE ONLY ROLE is to kill YOU, then perhaps you shouldn't be playing online games.
You're probably better off playing a single player game, where entire campaigns of enemies can't kill you.

Now then, since av is broken, back to sitting in my tank. Exploiting the idiocy of the forums influence on CCP 1 unlucky merc in front of a blaster at a time.

How about I put it this way. I run a Anti Armor fit where I switch out my light weapon with a MLT AR, my grenade for a ADV packed AV nade, and my equipment with a basic RE. It costs like 5k Would you believe that since I started doing this I have taken out some of the best tankers in the game. Run behind them, throw as many re's on the weak spot that you can and throw your nades and detonate the RE's. Yes, sometimes I lose 5 fits doing this before I get cheaper. The most I ever lost trying to get a tank was 9 without getting a tank.

I get pure joy in seeing tankers look at the kill screen and it reads "Anti Armor" and "Remote Explosive".

AV is balanced. People just need to get over the fact that you can't be good at everything and sometimes you get nullified by a tank.

What I've gotten from reading most of these posts/threads is that AV don't want to be "good at everything", but rather they expect to be effective at what they've chosen to specialize in.

How about I put it this way. I run a Anti Armor fit where I switch out my light weapon with a MLT AR, my grenade for a ADV packed AV nade, and my equipment with a basic RE. It costs like 5k Would you believe that since I started doing this I have taken out some of the best tankers in the game. Run behind them, throw as many re's on the weak spot that you can and throw your nades and detonate the RE's. Yes, sometimes I lose 5 fits doing this before I get cheaper. The most I ever lost trying to get a tank was 9 without getting a tank.

I get pure joy in seeing tankers look at the kill screen and it reads "Front Line" and "Remote Explosive".

AV is balanced. People just need to get over the fact that you can't be good at everything and sometimes you get nullified by a tank.

Well despite the fact that this entire statement is anecdotal and because of such is not credible, I'm going to bite down anyways.

First, who are the "best tankers in the game" that are being killed by you? I seriously want names, because if your killing "some of the best tankers in the game" that would technically make me the best tanker in the game... which would be hilariously ironic to say the least.

My sarcasm aside, do you honestly expect me to believe that anyone in a vehicle worth half their salt would die to a Remote Explosive trap? A good tanker doesn't need to use 1st Person view, so they can always see the person arming the REs. Arming a RE takes about 1-2 seconds, so multiply that by 3 (the amount required to kill an HAV without it's base shields) and that's about 3-5 seconds.

The average Human reaction time is .215ms, meaning you have to be about 15x dumber than the average human being to be killed by Remote Explosives. That's pretty much mental retardation right there. (then again, this is the pilot community were talking about).

There are crappy AVers in the game, just as there are crappy players who are Pilots, Heavies, Scouts, Logis, etc. This is a fact. However, the line between being underpowered and being terrible is easy to see. In fact, here's some math and actual evidence proving that the whole V/AV concept is still broken.

Though for the sake of my own sanity and profit, I have a proposition to make. Your Starter Fit with REs against my HAV. The winner, gets 50m ISK and has to admit that they were wrong in a public thread. How about it?