Snipers tend to make me angry, and no it's not they keep killing me and I'm losing my suits while they're safely sitting back in the red zone away from the battle complaining that they want hit detection for that kind of range. No, this is about playing Domination and having 3-10 snipers on my own team camping the red line/mountains. Can't really take an objective When most of my team is hiding up in the red line with a sniper rifle thinking they're making a difference, though in all reality I think they really don't care if they win or lose as long as their k/d is good. They don't even bother trying to take out enemy snipers because my guess is if we miss a shot at them, they might figure out where we're at and we might actually die or something.

It's like they group up in the mountains, huddle around, somebody brings a 30 pack, and they just watch their team lose, but it's ok, their k/d is positive! Need more of an incentive for people to put down a sniper rifle and actually get into the battle and actually win a game. Their win/lose ratio might be terrible, but it's all about k/d man. Reminds me of this old comic I read that featured 2 cats as the main characters, they did an Unreal 2004 Assault strip about the train level where the attackers had to board the enemy train. All the attackers just got on their platform with sniper rifles and didn't bother boarding the enemy train then after the battle were like wtf, how did we lose? I got out my sniper rifle and everything.

Snipers tend to make me angry, and no it's not they keep killing me and I'm losing my suits while they're safely sitting back in the red zone away from the battle complaining that they want hit detection for that kind of range. No, this is about playing Domination and having 3-10 snipers on my own team camping the red line/mountains. Can't really take an objective When most of my team is hiding up in the red line with a sniper rifle thinking they're making a difference, though in all reality I think they really don't care if they win or lose as long as their k/d is good. They don't even bother trying to take out enemy snipers because my guess is if we miss a shot at them, they might figure out where we're at and we might actually die or something.

It's like they group up in the mountains, huddle around, somebody brings a 30 pack, and they just watch their team lose, but it's ok, their k/d is positive! Need more of an incentive for people to put down a sniper rifle and actually get into the battle and actually win a game. Their win/lose ratio might be terrible, but it's all about k/d man. Reminds me of this old comic I read that featured 2 cats as the main characters, they did an Unreal 2004 Assault strip about the train level where the attackers had to board the enemy train. All the attackers just got on their platform with sniper rifles and didn't bother boarding the enemy train then after the battle were like wtf, how did we lose? I got out my sniper rifle and everything.

One or two GOOD snipers can do a lot for a game. They are the ones keeping a point from being captured and providing intel to a squad.

More than two snipers and you are either losing the match so everyone is sniping or you stand a good chance of it because you lost so many people to the sniper gang.

And those who only do it to buff their KD....I hate you.

Snipers tend to make me angry, and no it's not they keep killing me and I'm losing my suits while they're safely sitting back in the red zone away from the battle complaining that they want hit detection for that kind of range. No, this is about playing Domination and having 3-10 snipers on my own team camping the red line/mountains. Can't really take an objective When most of my team is hiding up in the red line with a sniper rifle thinking they're making a difference, though in all reality I think they really don't care if they win or lose as long as their k/d is good. They don't even bother trying to take out enemy snipers because my guess is if we miss a shot at them, they might figure out where we're at and we might actually die or something.

It's like they group up in the mountains, huddle around, somebody brings a 30 pack, and they just watch their team lose, but it's ok, their k/d is positive! Need more of an incentive for people to put down a sniper rifle and actually get into the battle and actually win a game. Their win/lose ratio might be terrible, but it's all about k/d man. Reminds me of this old comic I read that featured 2 cats as the main characters, they did an Unreal 2004 Assault strip about the train level where the attackers had to board the enemy train. All the attackers just got on their platform with sniper rifles and didn't bother boarding the enemy train then after the battle were like wtf, how did we lose? I got out my sniper rifle and everything.

Snipers are just below tankers in total selfishness/worthlessness. It's a role that CCP threw in to appeal to the coward demographic. Just like tanks.

Suck my massive tanker d!ck, you little scrub.

Im no coward. I've never hidden out in the redline, and my main target have always been other tanks. So I definitely put myself and my expensive tanks on the line. A lot of the times i'm even alone against several other tanks, because useless noobs like you think that you should get away with only speccing into infantry crap. I cover YOUR ass from the blaster maddys and somas that would've buttraped you if I wasn't there.

So take your "coward demographic" remark and shove it.

OnT:

Hate my own teams snipers for that very reason. There are ways to **** them off though. When I see a bunch of chickenshit snipers hiding in our redline and the battle is going bad, I run up to them and crouch right in front of them, blocking their scopes and field of view.

Snipers tend to make me angry, and no it's not they keep killing me and I'm losing my suits while they're safely sitting back in the red zone away from the battle complaining that they want hit detection for that kind of range. No, this is about playing Domination and having 3-10 snipers on my own team camping the red line/mountains. Can't really take an objective When most of my team is hiding up in the red line with a sniper rifle thinking they're making a difference, though in all reality I think they really don't care if they win or lose as long as their k/d is good. They don't even bother trying to take out enemy snipers because my guess is if we miss a shot at them, they might figure out where we're at and we might actually die or something.

It's like they group up in the mountains, huddle around, somebody brings a 30 pack, and they just watch their team lose, but it's ok, their k/d is positive! Need more of an incentive for people to put down a sniper rifle and actually get into the battle and actually win a game. Their win/lose ratio might be terrible, but it's all about k/d man. Reminds me of this old comic I read that featured 2 cats as the main characters, they did an Unreal 2004 Assault strip about the train level where the attackers had to board the enemy train. All the attackers just got on their platform with sniper rifles and didn't bother boarding the enemy train then after the battle were like wtf, how did we lose? I got out my sniper rifle and everything.

Snipers are just below tankers in total selfishness/worthlessness. It's a role that CCP threw in to appeal to the coward demographic. Just like tanks.

All sniper rifles should have a scope similar to a Thale and then the damage should be raised by at least 20% all rifles that should make them relevant again.

Cut Sniper Rifle range to 300m.

There is no logical reason for a sniper to have more range than a large railgun.

More than that, CCP should not reward redline play at all. Making Snipers come out into the field of play is what is really needed.

Only then should CCP consider buffing the Sniper.

Suck my massive tanker d!ck, you little scrub.

Im no coward. I've never hidden out in the redline, and my main target have always been other tanks. So I definitely put myself and my expensive tanks on the line. A lot of the times i'm even alone against several other tanks, because useless noobs like you think that you should get away with only speccing into infantry crap. I cover YOUR ass from the blaster maddys and somas that would've buttraped you if I wasn't there.

So take your "coward demographic" remark and shove it.

OnT:

Hate my own teams snipers for that very reason. There are ways to **** them off though. When I see a bunch of chickenshit snipers hiding in our redline and the battle is going bad, I run up to them and crouch right in front of them, blocking their scopes and field of view.

Really i could care less about their range, let thwm shoot from one side of the map to the other for all i care. Just dont reward people for shooting out of the redline. Its a seriously broken mechanic. No one should be able to earn points for killing in the redline. It would help solve the sniper/redline stomp issues.

Hate to say snipers are irrelevant at this point. I have my sniper skills maxed and I used to average 20+ kills a match before they started to nerf the sniper. They nerfed them when they made tank the way to go and not buff the sniper rifle to compensate for the extra EhP they now needed to wade through to get to the fleshy side underneath the armor. All sniper rifles should have a scope similar to a Thale and then the damage should be raised by at least 20% all rifles that should make them relevant again.

Claims hes not a coward
Sits in a safety shell with thousands of EHP that resists most weapons and self heals

Enjoy your cannon-clad safety pod, you brave boy, you.

I have never seen sniper and stomp in the same sentence .

That is an awful lot of judement for a Christian.

Whine all you like, you'll bend and beg me to do you after you've had me and my tank covering your back.

I've been left high and dry by tanks several thousand times more than they have actively helped me on the field.

Don't play with scrub tankers then.

Redundant.

One or two GOOD snipers can do a lot for a game. They are the ones keeping a point from being captured and providing intel to a squad.

More than two snipers and you are either losing the match so everyone is sniping or you stand a good chance of it because you lost so many people to the sniper gang.

And those who only do it to buff their KD....I hate you.

Snipers are just below tankers in total selfishness/worthlessness. It's a role that CCP threw in to appeal to the coward demographic. Just like tanks.

Suck my massive tanker d!ck, you little scrub.

Im no coward. I've never hidden out in the redline, and my main target have always been other tanks. So I definitely put myself and my expensive tanks on the line. A lot of the times i'm even alone against several other tanks, because useless noobs like you think that you should get away with only speccing into infantry crap. I cover YOUR ass from the blaster maddys and somas that would've buttraped you if I wasn't there.

So take your "coward demographic" remark and shove it.

OnT:

Hate my own teams snipers for that very reason. There are ways to **** them off though. When I see a bunch of chickenshit snipers hiding in our redline and the battle is going bad, I run up to them and crouch right in front of them, blocking their scopes and field of view.

1a.Cut Sniper Rifle range to 300m.

1b.There is no logical reason for a sniper to have more range than a large railgun.

2. More than that, CCP should not reward redline play at all. Making Snipers come out into the field of play is what is really needed.

3. Only then should CCP consider buffing the Sniper.

I have never seen sniper and stomp in the same sentence .

Gemcutter...

Singlehandedly will shut down PC teams...

Has shut down Pub's just the same...

He's the name that people talk about when thinking about an effective sniper that does the job an entire squad can by himself.

Given the vulnerabilities snipers have, I must assume that you are either telling stories or said pc teams/pubs were awful. There's a lot of things that can kill a sniper that a sniper can't touch, especially HAVs and dropships.

Didn't dispute that he may be a good sniper, don't know or care about your or his Epeen. There's a guy who can hit a target from 200 yards with a snub nose .38 revolver so I don't doubt that someone can use a KB/M or controller to be l337 on the video gamez. Disputed that he singlehandedly (This means by yourself by the way) locked down a GOOD PC team. As for the reasons, see HAVS and dropships... because he can snipe a penny at a 1000 meters and that won't mean **** if it can't cause damage to the vehicle. No need to get all chest puffy, you exaggerated and I called it.

Also, this game has no bullet physics, the sniper rifle is hit scan... that is all.

A Dropship or a Tank does nothing for taking and holding letters... They are part of the strategy to do so... And are useless against a sniper... As you said?

I didn't think that simple nuance needed explaining...

I don't have to exaggerate.. it's what happened. alot.

In all honesty sniping is a major role in warfare, yet somehow CCP has failed to make sniper more important in dust.

I know, the community hates snipers. They sit in the redline and take pot shots at players who are actually playing. Yet, given the nerf to damage mods, the terribly unfriendly sniping in maps, the high TTK, the volume of eHP builds, cloaks, etc... The sniper has long been forgotten.

Snipers should be a valuable part of the game, and with the leader controls they should be a highly prized recon/killer/leader/area denier which have a tactical role n a battle. I know the commando class got a nice boost to snipers, but sniping in a heavy suit shouldn't be the plan or the only option. There should be more suits, maybe a better bonus to dam mods or weapon damage for snipers, and a better sniping mechanic.

Its not always the easiest thing to kill a redline sniper, and snipers can easily have a nice 7-9 k/d but their role as a leader, a recon, a tactician should be improved.. And if that requires making sniping more viable at lower tiers, or making maps more sniper friendly then that is what should be done. Because with all these arguments over racial suits and bonuses, and racial weapons blah blah blah no one pays that much attention to snipers and they should not be an after thought cause some elite community prices don't want to take damage while they are running across open spaces like idiots.

There are good and bad players.

You can compare good tankers who use their mobility, durability and weaponry to tip the balance of a fight near an objective so reinforcements can come and help you hold it with redline rail snipers who can't hold their own without such an overwhelming range advantage AND a ton of HP backing them up when someone comes close.

You can compare a skilled Shotgun Scout to the new brick-tanked cloaker who dies when they run at someone thinking their "invisibility" will save them.

You can compare a skilled Sniper who moves from perch to perch taking out critical targets at just the right time with a redline rail sniper who's basically a miniature bad tanker.

It doesn't matter which you look at, there are good players, and bad players, in every role.

Bad snipers are offensive because for the most part, they look like afkers. They often have the same post-game stats for Kills/Assists/Deaths and sometimes even shots fired.

If they implemented COMPETENT anti-afk measures, those would target redline snipers as well.

>Pretty much all maps are surrounded by giant cliffs

How does one get more sniper friendly? The issue is snipers want a fast TTK which can only be balanced with everyone having a fast TTK which is what everyone hates, because that would make this game CoD like and make mobility/stealth more important then most anything else and would in turn reduce the amount of viable builds. If sniper rifles become 360 no scope watch me be a baws guns then this game will have to fundamentally change what it is trying to be which is not a CoD shooter.

I can one shot kill most STD suits and 2 shot most adv suits with headshots, not really sure what you expect to happen other than I guess one shot killing proto/heavy suits with a headshot? It's a hit scan weapon, it's too easy to head shot as is. This is with a STD sniper and a adv sniper if I'm feeling frisky btw. Thale's head shots can wreck many a suit.

In the end, we don't need 6 snipers on a team and it hurts the team when "you" do that, as in people who do that not necessarily the guy I quoted, just to clarify. I'd rather have 6 potato cannons running at the objective then 6 snipers hanging out in our redline.

You need to realize that snipers in Domination are the COWARDLY vets who checked the roster and saw who they'd be up against. That many more independents running against the protostomp corps won't win the match.

It has already become a simple matter of get your kills while you can until match's end.

Some day the new players will realize this simple process until CCP can do something about the pairing of proto tryhard groups looking for easy points using exploitable mechanics to solo casuals just trying to enjoy a good battle with good flow.

This issue isn't being on cliffs, it's about sight lines. You can snipe from a cliff right into the side of a building in 80% of the maps. There is hardly anything except for cliffs is also a problem. Also, there is no sniping suit and the best suit to snipe in is a commando cal suit and that thing sticks out like a snore thumb. Wonder what the big white brick is doing on those red and brown cliffs... Hmm

Again, there are No sight lines for snipers, no real place to be the recon or leader.

You cannot one hit most std suits thats great I'm happy for you, but very few players run standard suits except for noobs who are using the standard frontline/medic/sniper fits. They don't have the benefit for better mods, or better skill points boosts.
Even then, gal suit with 3 armor mods, you might not be able to take that down without a headshot. The point isn't to be a terror on the battlefield, its to be a useful tool and the vast majority of maps do not allow snipers to excel in these role. They are simply a redline sitting, taking shots are people being dumb and crossing open spaces kind of a player.

I'm not a sniper, i spec'd into it once and it was boring as hell. But I would just like to see their roles expanded by having more maps with more sight lines, maybe more sniper oriented suits and a better experience for snipers at lower levels.

I went through and numbered your comments, hope you don't mind.


1. The railgun argument has some basis so I can somewhat agree with that. however, instead of nerfing the sniper, give the railgun a longer range.

Fixed!

If your not playing to have fun, what's the point of playing the game? K/D ratio? A meaningless number that doesn't serve any real purpose. I don't understand these so called "vets".

Against no, I never said a tank/dropship can't stop a sniper. That was the exact opposite of what I said and what you should of read there. Pretty sure tanks or Dropships can kill a sniper, assuming it's not a Thale's Redline sniper who is head glitching. If Gemcutter is one of THOSE snipers, then lol, there are still ways to stop that again assuming this guy is singlehandedly holding off the other team. Otherwise, I draw back to the whole singlehandedly argument because although this statement would mean Gemcutter must hold the objective and the other team alone with his sniper the other team can employ any combination that 16 allows.

Stop getting all crotchety, I pointed out the flaws in your boasting symantecs and you're trying to defend it for some silly reason. Slow your roll dingleberry.

Snipers are annoying for the same reason Most people who try sniping in DUST find annoying.

There is no spots other then the red-line... Or CCP un-intentional designed spot's found and countered ONLY by dropship.

The map designs are horrible for understanding the roles in DUST 514... there is no scale or flow... Roads dead end out of no where... Ladders go to no where important on the map with no vantage points... Not enough ladders... No elevators...

Huge buildings taking up Game performance which provide no function... No internal structure... No multi level playability...

Snipers are a victim of CCP's un realized concept...

Where CCP Still hasn't sat down in front of a giant White board with the staff... and Fully realized the concept of DUST 514... and how it works today... and then after...

[quote=GeneralButtNaked]

What is the point of being a Sniper if you have to be in range of assault weapons to use them? I have to get into my stance (making me immobile), pull my rifle up, line up the shot, and shoot, while you are putting 10-15-20 rounds in me at the same distance. I get a total of 3-5 shots before reloading and you have a 50 round or more per magazine on rapid fire.

What you are saying is taking away the entire point of a sniper... Reach out and touch someone . The entire purpose of a Sniper (real world) is long range suppression and assistance. Right now it is a 2.5 to 1 ratio (250 vs. 600). That isn't unrealistic by any means, If anything, it is underwhelming. Just like in real life, Snipers SHOULD have more distance to their shots. A 338 Lapua or a 416 Rigby (or a Barrett .50 Cal while we're talking about it) have much longer accurate ranges than an M-16 or AK-47. The three previously mentioned can all reach out to about a mile (the Barrett .50 in 2012 had a confirmed kill at 1.75 miles. Granted, that's a world record, but a 1 mile shot is not unheard of anymore in the sniping world, just extremely difficult.) However, the documented and accepted max effective range is 1.1 miles.

An M16A2 has a max effective range for AREA, not person specific, targets of about 1/2 a mile; an M4 is only 1/3 of a mile. I know as of 2008 the Army didn't even do shooting (for regular forces, I'm not sure on SF, etc.) of 330 yards which is less than 2/10 of a mile. An AK-47 only has about a 225 yard max effective distance which is about 1/10 of a mile. So really, if an assault rifle has a max effective range of 250, we should be seeing 1000 minimum distance which is only 4 times farther, not the 6 times farther of the standard world.

The maps and their layouts have taken the sniper out of 80% of them. I don't want to be a guy just sitting up in the hills picking a few guys off and getting 4-5 kills a game. But many of the maps are set up where there is no Line of Sight to any or only 1 of the Null cannons on the map. If that single null cannon isn't being contested, there's not a whole lot I can do. Until recently, I only had sniper skills so I'm not going charging into the middle of a firefight at 100 meters and in just to get whacked.

On that same note, it is really upsetting when I get into a position to be helpful to the team, see a bunch of reds on a ledge, put 5 or 6 rounds from a maxed out Charge Sniper Rifle (running 3 complex and 1 enhanced light damage modifier) into someone and they don't go down. I had a game recently where there were 3 guys on a ledge (1 heavy and 2 mediums I believe). I put 25 rounds into the three of them. I'd be willing to bet 19 of them hit. I didn't kill one of them. I once hit a heavy with 3 HEAD SHOTS in a row and they still had almost full armor. When I can put 100 rounds out during a match, put 60% on target (I'd say that is a good # for this debate), and I'm only ending up with 6 kills, there is something wrong here. Look at the info in my first comment. Each weapon in this game has it's real world counterpart (the rail and forge gun are protos but there is still something out there.) Most machine guns take several rounds through armor. A shotgun blast is going to take out pretty much anything at close range. On the same note, a Barrett .50 Cal (or anything used for sniping by most miltary snipers) are a one shot, one kill type of weapon. It doesn't make sense that a weapon that should theoretically be a 2 shot at most weapon can't take someone out with 6 or 7 shots.

Something needs to be done to make the Sniper at least a viable option on the battlefield instead of relegating it into uselessness.

Broadly I think you have three groups:

1. Vets who are seriously good with the sniper rifle. Very small group I guess
2. Vets who are bored with whatever play style they were using and decided on a change.
3. Newbs who have realised that getting anywhere near the front lines especially if there are a high number of vets on the field or even worse when you are facing a stomp.

Only number 3 is solvable but I haven't seen a serious attempt to do so in over a year. I don't consider the academy to be a serious solution.

I think at the moment we are stuck in a rut with many people just going through the motions.

How many times have you looked at the team line out at the start of the match and called it.

1) Excellent information. I am happy to see that there are people informed on real world rifle operation and understand the difference in point and area targetting.

2) I think I love you (see point 1)

3) One thing that bugs me is that the Barrett .50 Cal gets called a "sniper" rifle. I dont care what the manufacturer calls it, I dont care what random users call it. In functionality it is an anti-material rifle and in the service it is classified as such. I'm not harping on YOU specifically, especially considering the information you seem to have. But there are many out there that are just flat unaware of what anti-material weapons are/do. /rant

4) Your ledge example is something I have experienced first hand on multiple occasions. Heavy's are just what their name implies....big, slow, and armored to hell and back. I have no issues with it taking 4-5 rounds to drop one. You have to consider that The Sniper Rifle does considerably less damage to shields eating up multiple bullets....but once those are gone....its magic time! This is highly apparent with the caldari heavy's. Medium suits on the other hand eating 2-3 bullets from a Charged SR or 2 from a Thales though.....so sorry but there is something massively wrong with that.

5) ****Will finishing editing later, emergency situation arose****

1) Excellent information. I am happy to see that there are people informed on real world rifle operation and understand the difference in point and area targetting.

2) I think I love you (see point 1)

3) One thing that bugs me is that the Barrett .50 Cal gets called a "sniper" rifle. I dont care what the manufacturer calls it, I dont care what random users call it. In functionality it is an anti-material rifle and in the service it is classified as such. I'm not harping on YOU specifically, especially considering the information you seem to have. But there are many out there that are just flat unaware of what anti-material weapons are/do. /rant

4) Your ledge example is something I have experienced first hand on multiple occasions. Heavy's are just what their name implies....big, slow, and armored to hell and back. I have no issues with it taking 4-5 rounds to drop one. You have to consider that The Sniper Rifle does considerably less damage to shields eating up multiple bullets....but once those are gone....its magic time! This is highly apparent with the caldari heavy's. Medium suits on the other hand eating 2-3 bullets from a Charged SR or 2 from a Thales though.....so sorry but there is something massively wrong with that.

5) ****Will finishing editing later, emergency situation arose****

Actually on the topic of the sniper rifle range it "is" already around 300m or so for its range. Once upon a time you could hit people at 800m+ which is when I started sniping in this game, then CCP did the range reduction on all lines of sight and cut down the range of the sniper rifle as well.

Currently with a prototype sniper rifle you can see people up to 400 ish meters buuut you can't actually hit them at that length as you get the blue dot or people simply disappear from your view. This is the reason why on certain maps you can only take out Thales users with a Thales yourself if sniping since with any other rifle they wouldn't even render.

But even then the Thales which is hailed as the best sniper rifle or most adequate doesn't hit past the 400-500m range and definitely no longer can get a 600m kill due again to the blue dot restriction. So the idea that the SR needs any more adjustments to its range is just ludicrous at this point and would just make it the (worst) RR in Dust period.

Currently for it to be even remotely usable for taking down targets you need either 3-5 dmg mods or a commando suit plus the mods, coupled with map sockets deigned specifically to counter all sniping instead of incorporating options for all styles of play to be cohesive. Any further nerfs to the sniper rifle and CCP should just change them into futuristic looking bats as they will serve no purpose other than to look interesting an at least as a melee weapon they can finally get support from the Devs.

I will concur with the scope strength. It is massively annoying when sniping from the "extreme" ranges of 500m away where a portion of the time they wont render (not to mention the buildings and surrounding terrain look like butt) or phase out into building walls or just flat out pop out of existence. 500 meters.....that is NOT that far away people. I was hitting targets in the service with a 240 bravo at that distance without much trouble....and you are telling me that dust sniper tech/optics are barely making the cut? I could understand reduced distance if it was out to 1000, but the suspension of disbelief at this point is bothersome.

On another note I went on a sniping spree with the NT-511, which I used to use very frequently prior to 1.8. However with all the damage nerfs this go 'round that thing hits like a wet noodle. Its taking approx. 5 shots to down SOME mediums...these are non headshots of course, but prior to 1.8 it was somewhere like 3. I do not/can not/will not understand how you can justify it taking that many rounds on mediums (even more bothersome with heavies becoming more popular), hell even some scouts are taking 2-3 shots at a time. Yeah, I'll get hate for saying it, but the phrase "One shot, One Kill" is there for a reason. At this stage of the patch I am not sure the devs were paying attention to everything that the damage mod nerf and proficiency changes were affecting. I still run a 5 damage mod logi and even now its a massive pain in the rear with anything less than proto level weapons (in comparison, naturally). Stop rubber banding our balls CCP!

1) Increase range of SR scopes (back to 800 preferably)
2) Increase SR Damage to compensate for patch reductions
3) Alternative optics (thermal imaging, Night Vision, etc etc)

See you in the burn zone!

ccp fix our tank problem on ambush and red line rail tanks range ^^ snipers are nexttt

Snipers tend to make me angry, and no it's not they keep killing me and I'm losing my suits while they're safely sitting back in the red zone away from the battle complaining that they want hit detection for that kind of range. No, this is about playing Domination and having 3-10 snipers on my own team camping the red line/mountains. Can't really take an objective When most of my team is hiding up in the red line with a sniper rifle thinking they're making a difference, though in all reality I think they really don't care if they win or lose as long as their k/d is good. They don't even bother trying to take out enemy snipers because my guess is if we miss a shot at them, they might figure out where we're at and we might actually die or something.

It's like they group up in the mountains, huddle around, somebody brings a 30 pack, and they just watch their team lose, but it's ok, their k/d is positive! Need more of an incentive for people to put down a sniper rifle and actually get into the battle and actually win a game. Their win/lose ratio might be terrible, but it's all about k/d man. Reminds me of this old comic I read that featured 2 cats as the main characters, they did an Unreal 2004 Assault strip about the train level where the attackers had to board the enemy train. All the attackers just got on their platform with sniper rifles and didn't bother boarding the enemy train then after the battle were like wtf, how did we lose? I got out my sniper rifle and everything.

The damage thing happened to all weapons, so you wanting a buff to your sniper rifle when all our guns also got nerfed isn't in synch with what CCQ wants. They want people to live longer and work more like a team to take out enemies. We have to deal with our other op weapons before even thinking about making sniper rifles op. Remember, this isn't your typical FPS, it also has RPG elements so it isn't CoD sniping one shot one kill. You just use a hell a lot less shots then everyone else to kill someone.

Snipers tend to make me angry, and no it's not they keep killing me and I'm losing my suits while they're safely sitting back in the red zone away from the battle complaining that they want hit detection for that kind of range. No, this is about playing Domination and having 3-10 snipers on my own team camping the red line/mountains. Can't really take an objective When most of my team is hiding up in the red line with a sniper rifle thinking they're making a difference, though in all reality I think they really don't care if they win or lose as long as their k/d is good. They don't even bother trying to take out enemy snipers because my guess is if we miss a shot at them, they might figure out where we're at and we might actually die or something.

It's like they group up in the mountains, huddle around, somebody brings a 30 pack, and they just watch their team lose, but it's ok, their k/d is positive! Need more of an incentive for people to put down a sniper rifle and actually get into the battle and actually win a game. Their win/lose ratio might be terrible, but it's all about k/d man. Reminds me of this old comic I read that featured 2 cats as the main characters, they did an Unreal 2004 Assault strip about the train level where the attackers had to board the enemy train. All the attackers just got on their platform with sniper rifles and didn't bother boarding the enemy train then after the battle were like wtf, how did we lose? I got out my sniper rifle and everything.

I used to snipe, not to stack kd, but to make isk. I tend to only do it on domination when I can assist with defending from a distance.

Reminds me of this old comic I read that featured 2 cats as the main characters, they did an Unreal 2004 Assault strip about the train level where the attackers had to board the enemy train. All the attackers just got on their platform with sniper rifles and didn't bother boarding the enemy train then after the battle were like wtf, how did we lose? I got out my sniper rifle and everything.

Snipers tend to make me angry, and no it's not they keep killing me and I'm losing my suits while they're safely sitting back in the red zone away from the battle complaining that they want hit detection for that kind of range. No, this is about playing Domination and having 3-10 snipers on my own team camping the red line/mountains. Can't really take an objective When most of my team is hiding up in the red line with a sniper rifle thinking they're making a difference, though in all reality I think they really don't care if they win or lose as long as their k/d is good. They don't even bother trying to take out enemy snipers because my guess is if we miss a shot at them, they might figure out where we're at and we might actually die or something.

It's like they group up in the mountains, huddle around, somebody brings a 30 pack, and they just watch their team lose, but it's ok, their k/d is positive! Need more of an incentive for people to put down a sniper rifle and actually get into the battle and actually win a game. Their win/lose ratio might be terrible, but it's all about k/d man. Reminds me of this old comic I read that featured 2 cats as the main characters, they did an Unreal 2004 Assault strip about the train level where the attackers had to board the enemy train. All the attackers just got on their platform with sniper rifles and didn't bother boarding the enemy train then after the battle were like wtf, how did we lose? I got out my sniper rifle and everything.

the ones that annoy me the most are the ones that sit so far in the redzone that not even a dropship can reach em.

id rather replace the redzone entirely. that should solve the problem with out causing many issues.

TL:DR entire post. Just remove the redline. Make the MCC able to be invaded by dropships with system wide bio cleaning sweeps every few seconds in the MCC to clear enemies. Then the snipers will just run out to 2 miles away an snipe from there, but at least a red dot can go kill them for you.

Get rid of arbitrary walls in games. Let the players do what they want and go where they want.

Claims hes not a coward
Sits in a safety shell with thousands of EHP that resists most weapons and self heals

I really don't understand the tanker hate, why group all tankers in the same category?

I said it earlier in my diatribe on page 5, the 16v16 count doesn't need HAVs unless they are made of paper which defeats their purpose. It's an out of place mechanic that is either going to be underpowered (pre-1.7) or overpowered (post 1.7.) It's either been the useless expensive toy that the team didn't need or it's the bully on the playground giving wedgies and pushing kids around. I don't think tankers are cowards myself, they just are either unnecessary or game breaking in every iteration of Dust.

How many times have you looked at the team line out at the start of the match and called it.

[quote=Cotsy8]I can 2 shot kill most adv suits with headshots

I'm not sure if that was intended for the original person's comment or you misunderstood my position. I'm arguing for MORE distance for the Sniper rifle, more damage, and better optics, not worse. The person mentioned a rail gun not having the same distance, and I was just suggesting if you want to complain about the distance, give the rail gun a farther distance to make it more comparable to a Sniper. Don't nerf the sniper rifles even more than they already have been. Snipers have been handcuffed enough with the updates. I'm guessing you didn't mean to include my comments on your response and if that is the case, sorry for the confusion.

I'm going to disagree with you however on the distance issue. The day after the 1.8 update, I was Sniping and I had two confirmed kills at over 400 meters. I had a headshot kill (longest shot) at 512. I'm using a Charge Sniper. From what I've seen on different forums, etc, it sounds like the max distance is around 600m. I can sit on a hill and look at a null cannon with a 500 m distance on it and see people walking around and hit them. It is darn difficult, but it is still possible. However, I agree with the main point that they have definitely restricted the scopes compared to the old versions of the game. They need to do something with the scope magnification so if it will reach out to 600 or so meters, the user is able to SEE up to 600 meters. This is a futuristic game/firearm. We should get more than a standard 9 power scope on it.

[quote=Onesimus Tarsus]Snipers are just below tankers in total selfishness/worthlessness. It's a role that CCP threw in to appeal to the coward demographic. Just like tanks.



Yall lucky the snipers arent realistic if the charged sniper was realistic the only thing you would find from a sniper hit would be a few shreds of armor a 50 cal sniper rifle is effective in the right hands at over 1 mile it can literally make dust out of a concrete block it is also capable of stoping vehicles hint of the day after you see someone sniped on the kill feed dont break cover becaus. Unlike in real life snipers in dust do not have the ability to blow through walls

Redline snipers are often new players learning the game without getting smashed by the stompers. Let's not choke out our lifeblood of new players.

IMHO Large rail guns should set the maximum range. Everything else should fall within that range. Yes I've just been killed 4 times in this match already and were just now getting into MCC armor.

I went through and numbered your comments, hope you don't mind.


1. The railgun argument has some basis so I can somewhat agree with that. however, instead of nerfing the sniper, give the railgun a longer range.

What is the point of being a Sniper if you have to be in range of assault weapons to use them? I have to get into my stance (making me immobile), pull my rifle up, line up the shot, and shoot, while you are putting 10-15-20 rounds in me at the same distance. I get a total of 3-5 shots before reloading and you have a 50 round or more per magazine on rapid fire.

What you are saying is taking away the entire point of a sniper... Reach out and touch someone . The entire purpose of a Sniper (real world) is long range suppression and assistance. Right now it is a 2.5 to 1 ratio (250 vs. 600). That isn't unrealistic by any means, If anything, it is underwhelming. Just like in real life, Snipers SHOULD have more distance to their shots. A 338 Lapua or a 416 Rigby (or a Barrett .50 Cal while we're talking about it) have much longer accurate ranges than an M-16 or AK-47. The three previously mentioned can all reach out to about a mile (the Barrett .50 in 2012 had a confirmed kill at 1.75 miles. Granted, that's a world record, but a 1 mile shot is not unheard of anymore in the sniping world, just extremely difficult.) However, the documented and accepted max effective range is 1.1 miles.

An M16A2 has a max effective range for AREA, not person specific, targets of about 1/2 a mile; an M4 is only 1/3 of a mile. I know as of 2008 the Army didn't even do shooting (for regular forces, I'm not sure on SF, etc.) of 330 yards which is less than 2/10 of a mile. An AK-47 only has about a 225 yard max effective distance which is about 1/10 of a mile. So really, if an assault rifle has a max effective range of 250, we should be seeing 1000 minimum distance which is only 4 times farther, not the 6 times farther of the standard world.

2. Agree. I'm a Sniper and I don't care for the guys who redline camp with no overwatch position and just pad k/d ratios. I think someone mentioned making any kills from the redline out be zero WP and does not count as a kill. By all means, go for it. I also like the idea of occasionally napalming the whole redline to keep people honest. Or, have something set up on the suits so if someone is in the redline for a total of 5 minutes, the suit goes boom. It would have to be total time because there are people who would sit in the redline for 4 minutes and 45 seconds, pop out, then pop back in. Nope. After 3 total minutes, the suit blows. After the first time, you only get 1 minute of total time and then the suit blows up as well.

3. For the record, since open beta I have been a dedicated Sniper. That was about the only thing my stats were even put into. However, I have recently started running Logi. This is because the game has basically made the Sniper irrelevant. I used to pick up 20 kills a game with no real problem. However, the nerfing/maps have made that nigh impossible.

The maps and their layouts have taken the sniper out of 80% of them. I don't want to be a guy just sitting up in the hills picking a few guys off and getting 4-5 kills a game. But many of the maps are set up where there is no Line of Sight to any or only 1 of the Null cannons on the map. If that single null cannon isn't being contested, there's not a whole lot I can do. Until recently, I only had sniper skills so I'm not going charging into the middle of a firefight at 100 meters and in just to get whacked.

On that same note, it is really upsetting when I get into a position to be helpful to the team, see a bunch of reds on a ledge, put 5 or 6 rounds from a maxed out Charge Sniper Rifle (running 3 complex and 1 enhanced light damage modifier) into someone and they don't go down. I had a game recently where there were 3 guys on a ledge (1 heavy and 2 mediums I believe). I put 25 rounds into the three of them. I'd be willing to bet 19 of them hit. I didn't kill one of them. I once hit a heavy with 3 HEAD SHOTS in a row and they still had almost full armor. When I can put 100 rounds out during a match, put 60% on target (I'd say that is a good # for this debate), and I'm only ending up with 6 kills, there is something wrong here. Look at the info in my first comment. Each weapon in this game has it's real world counterpart (the rail and forge gun are protos but there is still something out there.) Most machine guns take several rounds through armor. A shotgun blast is going to take out pretty much anything at close range. On the same note, a Barrett .50 Cal (or anything used for sniping by most miltary snipers) are a one shot, one kill type of weapon. It doesn't make sense that a weapon that should theoretically be a 2 shot at most weapon can't take someone out with 6 or 7 shots.

Something needs to be done to make the Sniper at least a viable option on the battlefield instead of relegating it into uselessness.

Makes no sence for you to say. real snipers have a range of 1 mile dont figure you know how many meters that is so think lets say a little over 1500 meters charged snipers shoot redline to redline most maps its about spot on guys dont turn this forum into hater city he cleary has no problem with the sniper just the amount of snipers in some matches if you wanna complain make yourself a forum ill even help you name it lets call it I HATE EVERY WEAPON I DONT OR CANT USE . that sounds about right

Yea and real rail guns have ranges far greater then a mile so whats your point? Yet my large rail gun barely out ranges a blaster tank all the while snipers can shoot redline to redline.

The debate about the realism of sniper rifles in this game is stupid since this is, wait for it, a game. As a game it needs to be based upon fun for all players which realistic sniper weapons do not allow for. They are intended to be unfair.

The unfortunate draw back of having non-realistic sniper weapons is that they are not an asset to the team. Yep I said it, not an asset. How many of the PC teams which were successful were using snipers prior to the collapse of PC? None. The reason is that by comparison the other weapons in the game the sniper rifle has no area it actual specializes in. Its even out classed out long range point denial by the forge gun (at least when that weapon fires), a weapon which also can destroy vehicles (again when it can fire).

Since the sniper rifle currently has no place in the game it should be removed, as should the plasma cannon, until CCP can find a way to make having one a team asset without destroying the fun of other players. Sorry snipers, I hate to tell you this but it reall is all true.

Fun did you say fun ? O wow guy im thinking that if ccp wanted this game to be fun for all they would make a skill based match not allow certain groups of people jump in and stomp the heck outta the poor noobs qsync pubs and such dont get me wrong ill do it quickly as the next guy i like the proto stomps whether i have a desent team or not got a good team stomp em back makes it fun but what about the guy in basic boo to him most the time theyll quit trust they are not having fun at all hopefully have there passive on and come back in a year when they stand a chance ccp does not want there game fun for all they promote extortion and dishonesty

The unfortunate draw back of having non-realistic sniper weapons is that they are not an asset to the team. Yep I said it, not an asset.

How many of the PC teams which were successful were using snipers prior to the collapse of PC?

The reason is that by comparison the other weapons in the game the sniper rifle has no area it actual specializes in. Its even out classed out long range point denial by the forge gun (at least when that weapon fires), a weapon which also can destroy vehicles (again when it can fire).

Address this post a few comments before yours. A good sniper is an asset to the team in many ways.


Go and dig up all the information you can on a player called Gem Cutter. You might be surprised what you learn.


They WHAT? I'm sorry, but lolno.

Snipers are THE extreme range fire support weapon. Forge Guns can fill a mid-to-long range role, but beyond that, it's Sniper Rifles. There's a limit to how far a Forge can be used accurately enough to kill infantry, and that limit is MUCH closer than the range a good sniper will be killing from.

Also, you seem to be under the impression that snipers are fixed emplacements instead of mobile assets. This is what competent players refer to as a "bad sniper". Bad snipers should not be used as evidence of the role not being valuable. In DUST, bad snipers prove that the Sniper Rifle is useless in exactly the same way blind people prove that cloaked players can't be seen at all by anyone.

Garrett, I've played with Gem Cutter (against) and this game is not the same game we were all playing two years ago. Snipers used to be a team asset they are no longer. You've been away for a long time and things have changed. Everything that I said is 100% correct in this current build and has been correct for the last few builds.

How many of the PC teams which were successful were using snipers prior to the collapse of PC?

Yes, forge guns are better at stopping hackers on a point since they one shot kill everyone, sniper rifles do not, and they have the added bonus of being able to take out tanks, something sniper rifles cannot do in game. The range limits on forges don't mean much since the maps are pretty small. Forgers can easily move between overwatch points with a DS. Snipers can't chase people off points anymore. I can hack faster than you can kill me in almost every instance. If I can't get the hack alone (you'd have to be using a thales) then half of my squad hacking together can. Also if you are sniping from more than forge gun range you are probably in the redline hiding like a wuss which limits your effective targets and thus your effectiveness. (red line sniping is another thing that needs changing but that is a topic for another day).

I am sorry but I am not referring to stationary snipers. I am referring to all snipers. In the last few builds snipers, even good ones, are not team assets. They are annoyances that cannot stop the enemy from doing a single thing and take up valuable space on a team's roster. Every single role that a sniper can perform can be done better by another style of player. The worst part is that the sniper isn't even a decent generalist at this point. Snipers are specialists who suck at their specialty. Before you start your tears again I suggest you get into some serious competetive games and see how many snipers there are. Try using one in a competetive game and see how little effect you have on the match's outcome.

I am asking CCP to remove the sniper rifle not because I hate the play style but because it does nothing to support team play in or even team success in its current form. This is really just my way of calling for a reinvention of the weapon and its role. I am doing so in an extreme way to elicit a reaction that is less extreme (think Earth First being established to make Greenpeace look like respectable moderates). I'm saying something extreme to make reasonable moderate responses seem more reasonable and thus more likely to be implemented.

Redline snipers are often new players learning the game without getting smashed by the stompers. Let's not choke out our lifeblood of new players.

Ha glad you typed all that must have read my mind i aggree with you on the redline thing although if they do do that they need to make the interior somewhat sniper friendly limited spots to snipe from makes the redline high ground ideal for the sniper when i do snipe i tend to move around empty a clip move again ( one shot one kill not realy) after you shoot half the time you give your position away sucks

Snipers tend to make me angry, and no it's not they keep killing me and I'm losing my suits while they're safely sitting back in the red zone away from the battle complaining that they want hit detection for that kind of range. No, this is about playing Domination and having 3-10 snipers on my own team camping the red line/mountains. Can't really take an objective When most of my team is hiding up in the red line with a sniper rifle thinking they're making a difference, though in all reality I think they really don't care if they win or lose as long as their k/d is good. They don't even bother trying to take out enemy snipers because my guess is if we miss a shot at them, they might figure out where we're at and we might actually die or something.

It's like they group up in the mountains, huddle around, somebody brings a 30 pack, and they just watch their team lose, but it's ok, their k/d is positive! Need more of an incentive for people to put down a sniper rifle and actually get into the battle and actually win a game. Their win/lose ratio might be terrible, but it's all about k/d man. Reminds me of this old comic I read that featured 2 cats as the main characters, they did an Unreal 2004 Assault strip about the train level where the attackers had to board the enemy train. All the attackers just got on their platform with sniper rifles and didn't bother boarding the enemy train then after the battle were like wtf, how did we lose? I got out my sniper rifle and everything.